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West Virginia defeats Kansas, 74-63

  • 6 p.m., Jan. 12, 2016
  • WVU Coliseum, Morgantown, WV

Tuesday, January 12, 2016

Familiar feeling: KU falls at West Virginia for third straight season

Kansas coach Bill Self and the Jayhawks bench watch the closing minutes of the Jayhawks 74-63 loss to the Mountaineers at the WVU Colliseum in Morgantown, W.V. Tuesday.

Kansas coach Bill Self and the Jayhawks bench watch the closing minutes of the Jayhawks 74-63 loss to the Mountaineers at the WVU Colliseum in Morgantown, W.V. Tuesday.

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— Sparsely populated at the start of Tuesday’s West Virginia-Kansas University basketball game because of a snowstorm that turned major highways into skating rinks, WVU Coliseum was close to full by the end of the Mountaineers’ 74-63 victory over the Jayhawks.

The perseverance on the roads paid off for the WVU fans, who witnessed history as their No. 11-ranked (15-1, 4-0) Mountaineers beat a No. 1-ranked team in Morgantown for the first time since 1983, when UNLV fell to the home team, 87-78.

WVU also took over first place in the Big 12 Conference as the (14-2 Jayhawks) dropped their first league game in four tries. All that gave the Mountaineer fans more than enough reason to storm the court after the contest, which they did for the third straight season.

Yes, KU has dropped three in a row to WVU in Morgantown.

“It’s the buildings and trees and river that caused us to play poorly,” KU coach Bill Self said sarcastically when asked if there’s something about Morgantown that gives KU fits.

The Jayhawks in the Self era have also lost three straight times to two other league teams in their gyms — Texas Tech in 2005, ’07 and ’09 and Texas in 2004, ’06 and ’08.

“West Virginia is aggressive. They’ve got a real good team and are well coached. Certainly there will be a lot of teams that lose here. It’s nothing about Morgantown, it’s about how their team played against our team,” he added.

KU, which had a 13-game win streak snapped, committed 22 turnovers. Frank Mason III, whose contingent of family members from Petersburg, Virginia, arrived at the arena with eight minutes left in the first half because of treacherous roads in Morgantown, committed seven turnovers against two assists. Devonté Graham had one turnover, three assists.

“Well, they are ultra quick, they play so hard,” Self said of WVU, which was led by guard Jaysean Paige, who scored a career-high 26 points. He had five of WVU’s 12 steals.

“Our guards didn’t have a good game. In practice I thought we were prepared to attack it (press). Obviously we weren’t,” Self said. “We’ve got to take responsibility for that. We’ve got good ball-handling guards and we looked so slow. As bad as the ball-handling was, they beat us in all the competitive plays. We had guys reaching for balls. They were diving for them. And we didn’t rebound the ball well (out-rebounded 41-39).

Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Self: West Virginia was just better than us

KU coach Bill Self answers questions from the media following Tuesday's 74-63 loss to West Virginia in Morgantown.

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Of Mason, who scored 12 points, Self said: “It seemed to me he wasn’t engaged emotionally tonight. I don’t know what it was. I was nervous about the weather because Frank had 25 family members coming. You start worrying if they can get here. This is the only chance they have to see him play. I don’t think it was it. He wasn’t himself tonight at all.”

Mason’s dad, Frank Mason II said, “That’s a possibility,” when asked if their late arrival had his son a bit worried. “I’m quite sure. He just had a bad game. He’s just got to shake it off and do it all over again,” dad added.

Also, it took KU’s team 50 minutes to get from its hotel in Morgantown to the arena. The Jayhawks arrived at 6 p.m., for the 7 p.m. tip.

Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Perry Ellis and Landen Lucas try to explain what went wrong against WVU

Perry Ellis and Landen Lucas try to explain what went wrong against WVU in Morgantown.

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“I don’t buy into that stuff. West Virginia’s kids had a hard time getting here, too,” Self said of team travel. “We got here. As a matter of fact, Miles (Daxter, three points, two steals) and Paige (six of 13 shooting; 14-17 from line) were just getting here when we did. We had plenty of time to get ready for the game. Hopefully nobody was seriously injured. As many ambulances and police cars we saw there had to be a lot of accidents.”

The Jayhawks, who did lead 14-9 early  but trailed 37-29 at half, were most upset by their lack of aggressiveness.

“We couldn’t get stops. They were getting anything they wanted driving down the lane,” said senior Perry Ellis, who had 21 points and seven rebounds. “I was surprised after the game seeing we had that many turnovers. You can’t do that if you want to win.”

Noted Wayne Selden, Jr., who had 11 points and six turnovers with no assists: “We weren’t strong with the ball. We got out-toughed. They were men. We weren’t. We just can’t let it happen again.”

Said Landen Lucas, who had six boards: “We let them be more competitive than us and want it more.”

KU did trail by just four points, 43-39, with 14:06 left, but it was back to 55-44 by 8:55, and West Virginia had nailed down sole possession of first in the league.

“It’s a combination of things, missed free throws,” said Self, whose squad hit 13 of 21 to West Virginia’s 33 of 47. “As bad as we were, we had it to four with 10 left, then that goes up to 10. They kept us at arm’s distance. We were never able to put game pressure on them. It’s a disappointing loss because they whipped us physically and were so much more athletic and quicker to the ball and aggressive.”

KU will meet TCU at 1 p.m., Saturday in Allen.

— See what people were saying about No. 1 KU at No. 11 WVU during KUsports.com’s live blog


More news and notes from No. 1 Kansas at No. 11 West Virginia


By the Numbers: West Virginia 74, Kansas 63

By the Numbers: West Virginia 74, Kansas 63

Comments

Mike Barnhart 2 years, 11 months ago

We were beat in about every "toughness" category: boards, turnovers, loose balls, etc. Unfortunately, "lunch bucket teams" have our number. Stanford, Wichita State, Temple, West Virginia... I kind of miss the old Bill Self, the guy who had his first KU team practice in football pads! I hope this lazy effort opened some eyes.

Niraj Shah 2 years, 11 months ago

Pathetic effort and weak sauce by KU. Self did not have them ready

Bryce Landon 2 years, 11 months ago

Lucky for the Jayhawks, their loss will be overshadowed in the news by the Rams leaving St. Louis for Los Angeles.

Marius Rowlanski 2 years, 11 months ago

Of all three teams that were wanting to return to Los Angeles, I'm glad it was the Rams who prevailed. Didn't make the loss to West Virginia any better though.

Michael Lorraine 2 years, 11 months ago

So you fill the void in LA. Now how do you fill the void in St. Louis? Should have been someone other than the Rams.

Joe Joseph 2 years, 11 months ago

This one would have been tough even before factoring in the short turnaround after a road game and the crummy weather which prevented Kansas from arriving to the arena until about, what, 45 minutes before tip off?

While it would have been nice to win, this was one Kansas didn't have to have. Nothing much has changed in terms of what KU needs to do win the conference.

Learn, build and move on.

Glen Miller 2 years, 11 months ago

That's the same line of thinking that is OK with bouncing after the 3rd round because we were Big 12 Champs for the 11th straight time. This was more like what we will see in the tournament. A good team, away from home with talent close to ours...... As good as the OU game was, this game showed me more than that one did. We SHOULD win at home, we HAVE to win on the road. Take all of the excuses and throw them away, because none of that lost us the game. West Virginia made us lose the game. They were ready to play and we were not. They were a top 10 team looking to prove something. There is zero reason we shouldn't have been just as ready. We better get ready for pressure in most games going forward, until we can prove that we can handle it.

Jay Scott 2 years, 11 months ago

There's actually zero similarity in the comment you replied to and being satisfied with losing early in the tournament. None.

Joe Joseph 2 years, 11 months ago

Calm down. If KU had turned in this type of performance against one of the lesser teams in the league - and lost - then there would be just cause for such a reaction.

Teams lose. Especially on the road. This has been the only game of the season in which Kansas didn't control the majority of the game. Mason and Graham had been two of the best guards in the conference at taking care of the ball prior to this game. West Virginia deserves a lot of credit for that, but Mason and Graham aren't going to forget how to handle the ball. There has been no trend this season of Kansas getting out worked, out hustled, or losing its composure. This game was an anomaly.

As I said, you learn from it and move on. That's all you can do. Kansas is still one of the best teams in the nation, as is West Virginia.

Gerry Butler 2 years, 11 months ago

well, you say this is the first time this has happened with Frank and actually Wayne more so then Devonte, but like it was brought up,this is the 1st tme really we have faced pressure this season, only about 4 % before last night and a lot of TO's were unforced. A very disappointing display

Joe Joseph 2 years, 11 months ago

They only faced pressure 4% of the time because teams were afraid to press them... And they still will be. WVU is exceptionally good at pressing because of Huggins' coaching and recruiting. Very few teams are equipped to press in such a way. Kudos to Huggins.

Marius Rowlanski 2 years, 11 months ago

Not sure of that. I'm certain other coaches in the BIG 12 took notice at how our guards handled the pressure and very well might try and take advantage of that. Not for an entire game but just in moments when you're not expecting it.

You are right though in that they will not have the same success as West Virginia had because that is how they play all the time. I'm looking forward to seeing what Kansas does against West Virginia when back at home in Allen Fieldhouse.

Gerry Butler 2 years, 11 months ago

we better be and need to be ready EVERY game. to say we didn't need this game is pretty weak. I just hope to GOD that Coach Self doesn't take or have this same approach. Couldn't you just see it? Coach comes in after the loss and says to his players it's ok guys we didn't have to have this game.What a sweet train of thought that is.as a Coach, as a player you better play with the emotion, and fire that you need EVERY GAME home, road or neutral, you take the approach of oh well we didn't have to have this one, that's just lame, if you take that approach as a Coach then time to hang it up, you take that approach as a player, time to have a seat. I know you couldn't be serious when you said that

Joe Joseph 2 years, 11 months ago

Nobody's going to disagree with you that players and coaches should value every game, every possession. But the fact of the matter is that this loss changes nothing in the grand scheme of winning the conference. Bill Self will tell you the same thing.

Now, if Kansas were to lay an egg at home against TCU and lose then THAT changes things. Or if Kansas loses any home game this season, for that matter.

Gerry Butler 2 years, 11 months ago

So then we win all our homes games, and lose all the road games cause we don't have to have them, If your going to win this conference or any conference you better learn how to win on the road in conference. your train of thought we end up 500. not gonna cut it

Joe Joseph 2 years, 11 months ago

Never said Kansas can afford to lose all road games? Not sure how you're making that leap.

Kansas needs to beat the teams it's supposed to beat on the road. Tech (check), TCU, K-State, Oklahoma State, Texas. That affords KU the ability to absorb road losses to really good teams like ISU, OU, and WVU. A loss to one of the lesser teams on the road just means KU will probably need to pick one up against one of the better teams.

Kansas is gonna lose, dude. Just like every team in the Big XII is gonna lose road games.

Marius Rowlanski 2 years, 11 months ago

I have to disagree Glen. Looking at the big picture we need to win 4-5 road games and hold serve at AFH. I do agree that there aren't any excuses for losing, West Virginia was better prepared, out hustled, outperformed and made us look bad on national television.

Unfortunately, that could be the case in other road games this year in the BIG 12 as half of our conference is ranked in the top 25. We had a nice winning streak going into the game and left West Virginia with a black eye.

What disturbed me most is that when we are behind at the end of the first half, Self almost always makes the adjustments needed for us to come out on top. I didn't see that at all last night. After the first TV timeout, I seriously doubted we could pull out a victory as KU still couldn't handle UWV's pressure. For the first time in the last couple of years, our guards looked inept. I feel confident that it won't be the same the next time we meet.

John Myers 2 years, 11 months ago

I didn't get to watch the game, but from the box score, it was all free throws and turnovers. We out shot them percentage wise from the field and from 3pt. Rebounds were close. Our FT percentage was only slightly lower, but they outscored us by 20 points JUST from the line (33-47 to 13-21). I don't get how there can be that much disparity (especially since I didn't get to see it), but that along with 22-11 turnovers, that just CANNOT happen.

RJ King 2 years, 11 months ago

Am I misreading this at midnight? Or are the box scores wrong? The math just doesn't add up. Makes me question a lot of the specific stats, although we can all pretty much see the big picture regardless.

Glen Miller 2 years, 11 months ago

Don't forget that the 10, 3 point field goals are included int he the 20 field goals made. 20 made field goals with 10 of those being 3 pointers is 50 points. Add in 13 free throws and you have 63 points, which is correct.

RJ King 2 years, 11 months ago

Ah yes, thank you. Amazing how my cognitive reasoning improves with sleep.

Aaron Paisley 2 years, 11 months ago

WVU had 15 offensive rebounds last night, that also played a big role last night as well.

Doug Clark 2 years, 11 months ago

West Virginia bitched about every foul the refs called on them, they shoot 26 more free throws than us but every time they were called for a foul Huggins and every player on the court throws their hands up like there is no possible way they fouled. I think they get the benefit of so many calls because they grab, push, hold the whole 40 minutes and there is no way the refs will call every foul they commit because the game would take 4 hours to complete. Nonetheless, we shouldn't be surprised by this after last years 2 games but for some reason we didn't play tough, we let them rattle us and that's upsetting for such an experienced team. Graham is struggling to keep his man in front of him, I think Svi should get some of his minutes, unfortunately he didn't hit some open looks but his defense and care of the ball was much better than others. This loss really upsets my stomach and I can't believe the refs didn't give Page a tech when he followed Selden and was talking crap right in his ear, and he did it more than once, I think Huggins intimidates the refs because he bitches about every single call, wvu wasn't very classy and its a joke they continue to storm the court, the big 12 needs to put a stop to that crap, obviously they didn't learn anything from last years episodes, pathetic game all around.

George Bures 2 years, 11 months ago

Well said. I couldn't agree more. How is it that the more aggressive, in your face team shoots double the amount of free-throws. If we attacked more aggressively we should have spent the whole night at the line. Of course we need to make them which we didn't.

Gene Jackson 2 years, 11 months ago

Storming the court. What IS the current status of this? Last year the Big 12 was proposing all these fines, etc., for storming the court. Did nothing come from that?

John Kelley 2 years, 11 months ago

You win the game and then there is no worry about them storming the court. West Virginia's formula for winning going hard to the rim to score, chasing after bad shots and constantly pressuring opponents. Non stop team effort on both ends of the court will get any team a lot of wins.

Kent Richardson 2 years, 11 months ago

They the Big 12 left it up to the schools.

Allin Herring 2 years, 11 months ago

Here we go with all the excuses! The weather, to much traveing ect. ect. Give me break. We have played 2 teams in a row that actually play defense and look how we scored. Not sure this great scoring team is really as good as their numbers show. They are not so super when a team gets in their face. Twenty two turn overs with a team with 2 starting point guards.....wow! Does this team play defense? Sure have not seen it. We were a fouling machine tonight! Just to slow and had to foul to stay with our man! What''s with playing Manning and the third string at the end of the game? I guess the never give up Jayhawk pride is the thing of the past with Self now? Well I think that is Bull Crap! Losing this game does matter. Now we must win at OU. Ever lost is important. Now it is back to any man's chance. Just like this team in many games they get big leads and then loose focus and blow the lead! This loss could come back and bite us is the butt.

Glen Miller 2 years, 11 months ago

We are not a great offensive team. We are a great transition team..... we were not able to get out in transition and when we were in the half court we had no offensive flow. Pretty much tells the story on why we couldn't score.

Joe Joseph 2 years, 11 months ago

Nearly every statistic would prove that Kansas is, in fact, a good offensive team.

Glen Miller 2 years, 11 months ago

Statistics are like fools gold sometimes for offense because we get so many transition buckets. If our transition isn't working and the 3 isn't falling.... we struggle. All you have to do is notice how the ball can stick throughout a possession and the numerous ISO plays as the shot clock is winding down to know what I'm talking about.The fact of the matter is that KU is probably somewhere in between your belief and mine as far as offensive efficiency and prowess.

Chris Shaw 2 years, 11 months ago

Statistics aside I agree with you, Glen. As KU continues with its current rotation, I think you're gonna see KU struggle more and more in the half court set. If teams can prevent KU to get out in transition, I think you're gonna see KU settle for outside jumpers. What happens when they start missing those shots. Everybody loses confidence and then you get out of even more rhtym and flow.

Last nights game was funny because this is one game where you expected the half court set not to be an issue. You expected it to be an up and down game and you would have thought a transition up and down game would have favored the Jayhawks. Instead, shots didn't fall, confidence was lost, turnovers occurred, and the energy was sucked clean.

Going forward, against better completion with this current rotation...I think you are gonna see the "statistics" come back down to earth and show KU isn't a great half court executing team. Especially when the 3 point shooting has gone by the way side line it has against two completely different style teams in Tech and WVU.

Joe Joseph 2 years, 11 months ago

You realize KU shot 41% (9-22) against Tech and 50% (10-20) against WVU, right?

By all standards that is exceptional. It wasn't KU's three-point shooting that doomed it against WVU, it was turnovers and the inability to not foul.

You play to the strengths of your team. KU's greatest strength is its outside shooting... something that Bill Self is finally accepting with this team. Do you ignore the interior? Of course not. But Kansas just isn't that good in the post.

Aaron Paisley 2 years, 11 months ago

You realize KU made 4 of their 10 3 pointers in garbage time right?

Chris Shaw 2 years, 11 months ago

Thank you! It's not the number you make but the timing and manner in which you attempt them as well as make them is manner in which I'm speaking. But, statistics tell the whole story, right?

Jay Scott 2 years, 11 months ago

Is it fair to assume that you meant that the shot selection wasn't good. Watch the game again and you'll know better.

Jay Scott 2 years, 11 months ago

Vick and Bragg made theirs after the issue was decided. Mason made one with 1:15 to go.Garbage time? Not until a few WVU free throws. Selden's at 10:54 (the 4th last) certainly wasn't meaningless.

Even if you count Mason's as "garbage" they still went 7/16 in non garbage time. 43.7% 3 point shooting is among the best in the nation. KU is 46.2 overall. Their 40.9% vs TTU would rank them 12th in the nation if it were a season average.

Chris. "Especially when the 3 point shooting has gone by the way side line it has against two completely different style teams in Tech and WVU."? Nothing personal. You have no clue whatsoever.

Marius Rowlanski 2 years, 11 months ago

Good post Joe but I think we are missing out on one thing. As you stated - you play through the strengths of your team - but I think we are under using one of our biggest strengths and that would be our depth.

West Virginia had nine players in double digit numbers with only one player getting over 30 min. Our team was clearly more tired late in the second half. Our minutes were more concentrated and our freshman logged a total of 11 min. Last night was obviously not the night to be giving out "learning time" but I think if we are to win the ultimate goal, which is not another BIG 12 championship, we need to do a better job of developing our very talented freshman class.

Marius Rowlanski 2 years, 11 months ago

Sorry Allin but your comment sounds more like a Red Herring than a statement of fact.. What excuses are you referring to? I don't think anyone was blaming the referees for us losing but were pointing out a statement of fact which can be verified by simply looking at the statistics.

Pretty much everything you stated was based on one loss, what happened to the other 14 games in which we won? "Now we must win at OU"? Where did that come from? Wouldn't beating West Virginia at home be more important? Winning the BIG 12 comes down to a simple formula: hold serve at home and pick up 4-5 victories on the road. Last year we won the BIG 12 w/a 4-5 road record and 9-0 at home.

I get the disappointment. We were thoroughly beaten in just about every way we can be. As I stated before, half of our conference is ranked in the top 25 and in the coaches poll, three teams are in the top 10. Losing to the number 10 team in the country on the road may not be the best time to make a complete appraisal of how good a team we are.

"I guess the never give up Jayhawk pride is the thing of the past with Self now?"

"Does this team play defense? Sure have not seen it."

"We were a fouling machine... to slow and had to foul to stay with our man"

Please... Way too much Whine and not enough cheese.

Dammit... Where is Jay when you need him?

Adam James 2 years, 11 months ago

Embarrassing showing from the team tonight. This pressure is obviously much greater than we will see all season, but when I look at Bill Self teams that lose in regular season and NCAA it is when other teams get up in our face and pressure us. We will still do our job and win the Conference, but the way we handled pressure was horrible.

Gerry Butler 2 years, 11 months ago

Did you watch the game? WV had the lane anytime they wanted. Same story, we just get blistered we can not defend the dribble drive, which leads to reaching, grabbing, and hacking. this leads to the 47 free throw attempts. Until these guys learn how to slide their feet, stay in front of the ball, temas will continue to just have open lane for easy scores

Jared Reeves 2 years, 11 months ago

Graham has become a huge defensive liability for this team. Other teams has figured out that he can't stop dribble penetration, so they spread they floor and isolate him at the top of the key, and drive for the basket forcing help, and getting fouled or getting a bucket. Mason, over the last three years has proven he struggles handling the press. On the bright side, Perry had a great game, which he typically does over smaller teams.

Mike Riches 2 years, 11 months ago

This was painful to watch. I agree we weren't as tough as we could have been, but we looked more dazed and confused than anything. We rarely attacked their press, but maybe that was intentional?

Time to get back home, practice hard, and not look past TCU. We need our next three games in a big way. I'm not too concerned about WVU as far as the conference race goes. Teams figure out their press, and they end up with several losses. I am concerned about OU. I think they are good enough to go 15-3 or even 16-2 in conference. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't think 4-5 losses wins it this year...

Suzi Marshall 2 years, 11 months ago

I agree with your call that the conference winner will only have 2 or 3 losses. For us to win conference, it's looking like we'll have to win at OU. AFH is the toughest place to play in the Big 12 and look how well OU was to play here. I suspect OU will be ready to play in Morgantown and fairly easily get the W.

WVA will lose about 5 games because they won't get those excessively friendly calls on the road. I can easily see OU winning out the balance of the year and KU only losing to OU in Norman, giving the conference title to OU.

Joe Joseph 2 years, 11 months ago

No way any team is losing less than 3 games in the conference this year. The top half of the conference is too tough for such expectations. Not to mention OU's home court advantage is one of the weakest in the conference.

And if Oklahoma does win out... Well, then it more than deserves to win the conference and the overall #1 seed in the tournament, which it will be granted.

Barry Weiss 2 years, 11 months ago

I think 4 losses will win the conference this year.I think its time for Mickelson to not start. One way or another, I'd get Diallo more minutes.

Kent Richardson 2 years, 11 months ago

OU is vulnerable too. They take bad shots and allow dribble penetration. An off night on their outside game and foul trouble,which happens a lot this year, and down they go. Hield is not an NBA first round talent no matter what Dickie V says. He has improved a lot from last year to this but his ball handling bites him and he will not be unconscious from three every game. They are the marked team now. Beware!!!

Mike Riches 2 years, 11 months ago

I agree that they are vulnerable, and obviously it's way early, so I'm trying not to overreact. :) I just think there's more space between the top 2-3 teams in the conference this year than in years past, so the conference winner may only have 2-3 losses, but I may be wrong. And until someone else actually wins the conference, we will always be the marked team. I think we handle that pretty well for the most part.

Benz Junque 2 years, 11 months ago

I had thisd as a LOSS on the schedule to start the year so the result doesn't bother me. We weren't going to go 18-0 in Big 12 play. But it's a shame that no one but Perry Ellis chose to compete last night. Frustrating when KU doesn't give themselves a chance to win a game. The more aggressive team usually wins in college basketball and Ku simply sat there and let WV take their lunch money. Gonna be a awkward day watching the game film of that one. Lots of explaining to do.

Duke got punked on the road last year by a mediocre NC State team and followed it with a loss at home to a mediocre Miami team so this game by no means changes any of the goals for the season. Just need to compete better.

Jay Scott 2 years, 11 months ago

What happened yesterday-

A good team did what it does best, on it's home floor, better than a better team does what it does best. That, a few bounces, a few missed shots, a few bad decisions and a strange officiating return to another era, added up to a loss for the #1 team.

What it means -

Kansas, as many in the media predicted has lost at the toughest venue in it's conference and will not go undefeated in conference. Most analysts expect the to finish 15-3 or 14-4.

What happened in Chicken Little Land-

That sky has fallen. It's been proven that Self can't coach, the players can't play, and the team has no heart, except Perry who had no heart last time.

What it means to Chicken Littles-

Self should be fired. The bench is no good. The bench should start. They should play bigger. They should play smaller. They have no chance to win anything again. Ever.

If it bothers some that the moaners, haters and kooks are labelled as Chicken Littles, there's a spot on my back side that would welcome your affection. Speak up...

Barry Weiss 2 years, 11 months ago

I am pretty new here, who are the chicken littles?

Jared Reeves 2 years, 11 months ago

They are sandwiches from KFC. They are delicious!

Jay Scott 2 years, 11 months ago

Barry , Not hard to tell now, is it? A few more will find it impossible not to admit that they fit this description.

Rodney Crain 2 years, 11 months ago

-- Cock a doodle do - The Rooster crows again.

Typical Jay, Looking for a fight where there is none, telling everyone their thoughts do not matter unless they agree with him, and while making a good post to start with cheapens it with an immature low brow blast in the mud.

Quit crowing on every article and stick to your points, they are the only thing anyone wants to read.

Also it would be nice for you to use just one sign in, you have clogged up the comments enough on here.

If this bothers you, the facts, you can hate and keep acting like the kook you like to be on here. I would end this with "speak up" but you got plenty of hot air, from somewhere, and will anyway.

Jay Scott 2 years, 11 months ago

Among your "thoughts" on this thread, none had a single reference to basketball. From the ones of yours I've seen that do, that's wise.

Jay Scott 2 years, 11 months ago

Thanks Brett. I had a side bet that you couldn't resist announcing as a CL. Only one holdout left and all the bets are covered.

Glen Miller 2 years, 11 months ago

You must have pretty low self esteem to continually come on here and bash on people. Most of the people I know that act in the manner that you do only act like jerks because they are crying out for help.... are you crying out for help Jay?!

David Friend 2 years, 11 months ago

Jay. A little harsh on the Chicken Littles but well said overall.. This is not a bad loss and if anything it should get them back on track.. Last two games they have not played well.

Jared Reeves 2 years, 11 months ago

What happened yesterday –

Another good team outplayed us on their home court, took advantage of our weakness, and played harder than we did, adding up to a loss for a team that didn’t play like the #1 team.

What it means –

Losses will happen, but we should try to learn something from our losses and adapt (especially since we play them again).

What happened in Fundie Land (Fundamentalists in the Church of Bill Self) –

The ball didn’t bounce our way, our shots were uncharacteristically not falling which had nothing to do with our poor execution, and the refs didn’t want us to win. Bill Self is still infallible, and our team is still the best team ever to play the game.

What it means to Fundies –

The game plan was perfect, the team shouldn’t do anything differently going forward, and no one should criticize Bill Self or talk about how we can get better. There is nothing to learn from this loss. If you don’t have blind faith, then you hate Bill Self and everyone on the team.

If any of the Fundies/apologists want to explain why we can't learn from this loss, please speak up.

Jay Scott 2 years, 11 months ago

Anyone who ascribes to what you've outlined would be an idiot. There are no such posters here. None of the comments you've quoted have ever been made by anyone. This is just bad trolling.

Kent Richardson 2 years, 11 months ago

Heavenly Days at the Hellish Portsmouth Naval Prison. This is where we used to send the DD'd personnel instead of Leavenworth.

Marius Rowlanski 2 years, 11 months ago

My dad was stationed at Fort Leavenworth for the CGSC and the Jr. ROTC was given the chance to tour the detention facility. I couldn't imagine a more miserable facility in which to spend 5 years to life. I even felt sorry for the MPs standing guard.

Jared Reeves 2 years, 11 months ago

Joe, are you so sure?

"That, a few bounces, a few missed shots, a few bad decisions and a strange officiating return to another era, added up to a loss for the #1 team." - Jay Scott

"The ball didn’t bounce our way, our shots were uncharacteristically not falling which had nothing to do with our poor execution, and the refs didn’t want us to win." - Fundies

Jay Scott 2 years, 11 months ago

Jared, I hate to humiliate you again...no I don't actually.. but your comments are a stain on KU Law.

What does "That" in the quote of mine that you borrowed refer to? Do you have the nuts to type it out?

I hope you don't actually do anything of consequence to anyone at the JAG.

Jared Reeves 2 years, 11 months ago

Typical Jay, he tries to go personal when he has no other recourse. Have fun cyberstalking.

Jay Scott 2 years, 11 months ago

No nuts? The "recourse" was to illustrate either your ignorance or dishonesty in the comment you made. Which was it Jared? You always end up showing both. You should know better by now.

Jared Reeves 2 years, 11 months ago

Joe,

Is anyone saying "(the) sky has fallen. It's been proven that Self can't coach, the players can't play, and the team has no heart..."? - Jay Scott

Joe Baker 2 years, 11 months ago

“Our guards didn’t have a good game. In practice I thought we were prepared to attack it (press). Obviously we weren’t,” Self said. “We’ve got to take responsibility for that.

I don't understand post-game comments like this from Head Coach Bill Self. How do you recognize this "fact" and then not respond during the game, but say, "We've got to take responsibility for that." You can take responsibility during the game. You're the Head Coach and can make adjustments or changes at anytime during the game. Instead you concede and accept a horrible loss? I don't understand. Bill Self is the most complicated and yet simple minded successful coach in D1 ball.

WVU deserved to win. They were the better team. But like OU, this will be their crowning game of the year. They will fall and have a losing game or two on the road. WVU is not an endurance team that will weather the conference undefeated. Each team will suffer at least 1-2 loses.

Jay Scott 2 years, 11 months ago

1-2 losses would be a monumental achievement. 3-4 losses will likely win the conference.

Joe Baker 2 years, 11 months ago

"At least 1-2 loses" I was looking at KU's remaining schedule and it doesn't get easier. We will struggle in Ames, as always. We will likely fall in Norman. We may even have fits in Austin. Self better get this squad where it needs to be now or we may have problems in the little apple and possibly Stillwater. If we are not careful a team is going to sneak into AFH and beat us after this debacle.

This team does not look like a team that played an early season in the WUG.

Gerry Butler 2 years, 11 months ago

No matter how many adjustments Coach makes for them during the game, how long they practice for it during the week, bottom line is, it's the players that have to be the one execute on the floor Coach can't go on the floor and execute for them, it's up to them to get it done after he has made the adjustments

Jim Pendleton 2 years, 11 months ago

Obviously we did not play well overall. Turnovers and free throws were the biggest issue. Again we can't point the finger at one or two guys, as nine different players had at least one turnover. Offensive rebounds by WV have to be mixed in again, although it was a little better than last year, but giving up 15 is too many.

Concerning we didn't play well, but a loss would have hurt WV more than us. I may be wrong, but I still think at least 3-4 losses min wins the league. Just hard to figure that some of these teams will win on the road against the better teams. WV caught a break with first three games being against likely bottom feeders, but the more they win, the longer they will hang around. Iowa State being 1-3 a bit surprising, and as much as we have prob's at WV, they have similar issues at home with Baylor. OU is the one we all have to watch, although I still think they will lose at least a couple more somewhere.

Still early, and there will be games like this. Hopefully they will be few and far between. Must continue to win at home, take care of the bottom half of the league, and then steal one or two against the top half. The power conferences are all tough, as evidenced by KU, Miami, and Maryland all losing last night. Many other good teams have lost a couple already as well. If we improve as the season goes on, we have as good a chance as anyone. Rock Chalk!!

Joe Baker 2 years, 11 months ago

Hopefully this will be a learning game for future road games and our ugly loss of the year.

Bee Bee 2 years, 11 months ago

Reminded me of a typical NCAA Tournament game. Unfocused, not prepared and playing scared. I knew a couple minutes into the game that KU was in trouble. When WVU's Williams went inside twice, (once against Hunter and once against Lucas) put and elbow in their chests and scored easily it was the beginning of the end. Hunter and Lucas waned NO part of it and backed off. This is typical of Self's inside players, they aren't tough and they're easily intimidated. Add that to KU's, "SHOOTERS" inability to barely hit iron on three point attempts and the lack of any effort on 50/50 balls and it was over early.

Other observations:

Greene and Svi are the same player. Both are SUPPOSED to be good to very good shooters but aren't and neither plays defense.

Diallo so far is a bust. How could he be the #7 recruit in the nation? Bragg is slightly better but not where he should be.

Chris Shaw 2 years, 11 months ago

I very much disagree with you that Diallo is a bust. 1) he missed games this past summer which he couldn't have played in because of his natuonality 2) he missed 5 games for whatever ncaa discrepancies they had with his transcript. It's really unfortunate. 3) if we are being truly honest with he self assessment of Diallo, he's behind in his development coupled with the fact he's not getting much opportunity.

Diallo is far from a bust. Timing and unfortunate variables are not helping his cause currently but hopefully something changes and an opportunity of success occurs for the kid.

Joe Baker 2 years, 11 months ago

"I thought it gave us the best chance to win," Huggins said. "I think the way the game's being called, it's hard to guard the ball. We tried to kind of revamp some things and keep them spread to try to be able to get guys to the basket."

Interesting Huggy coaching comment.

"it" being: An emphasis on driving the ball to the basket paid off for the Mountaineers, who outscored Kansas 33-13 from the free throw line.

Funny play on "paid off" and "the way the game's being called." So Huggy found a little advantage with "the way the game is being called." Meaning officials are deciding games off of calls or the rules have changed to give teams some advantage with officials? I don't think a coach should be able to say their strategy is based on "the way the game is being called." It sounds really odd in todays D1 climate.

Chris Shaw 2 years, 11 months ago

Meaning the rules have changed to focus on "freedom of movement" as well as to create more scoring for college teams. That's the emphasis for this years rule changes. Adjust or don't adjust. One team attacked the paint and rim and the other settled for jump shots. In this one particular game it seems to me that one team understood the emphasis of the rules a little better than the other.

Rob Stewart 2 years, 11 months ago

Well we definitely didn't handle the "pressure" very well, not sure any easy baskets, we seemed to be satisfied "getting the ball inbounds", we let traps come to us instead of moving the ball, we sure didn't play with a free mind like their guards did, we passed up so many opportunities to drive the baseline and shoot open shots, we turned down open shots to drive right into traffic, obviously the weather or anything externally happening can affect the mind, too many screaming mountaineer fans???? heck they are kids and we will lose 4-5 in the conference. Just a game to stretch and grow.....

Vic Janeway 2 years, 11 months ago

Its now totally obvious to me....its mental.....get the fear of losing a Big 12 championship out of your head and just play! Emotional pressure for winning a big game and the 12th in a row is killing them. It is seen in the pressure they get and how they respond with tension...passing, shooting you can see the tension every time they handle the ball and the calmness missing, leading to bad passes when the stress of a game is in their heads. Come on coach get them help with the head game....please.

Joe Joseph 2 years, 11 months ago

You watched the previous 3 conference games, right? You know, when Kansas didn't look flustered and did handle the ball well?

West Virginia is due a lot of credit for making Kansas play poorly. That's kind of its style... Nothing new happened to Kansas that WVU hasn't been making other teams do all season in Morgantown.

Joe Joseph 2 years, 11 months ago

The fickle nature of some fans is unreal.

This team - the same one that won 13 in a row and is currently ranked 2nd in the Kenpom rankings, with its only losses coming to top-ten teams - is the same team it has been. Graham and Mason haven't forgotten how to value the ball. Selden hasn't forgotten how to shoot. Bill Self hasn't forgotten how to coach.

Nearly all advanced statistics indicate that this Kansas team is good both offensively and defensively.

Until this becomes a trend (turnovers, fouling, etc) I think the best, most sane course of action is to chalk this game up as, simply, a bad game turned in by an otherwise very good team.

Chris Shaw 2 years, 11 months ago

Your statement says it all, Joe. This team hasn't improved or changed since the Michigan State loss. It's the "same" team, right? That's where in the issue lies. You would have thought that with 5 games missed by Diallo and 5 games missed by Greene would give a clear cut idea on roles with an idea of a rotation. All it has done is created more of log jam of uncertainty with 7 guys trying to play with Graham, Mason, Selden, and Ellis. The ceiling has been met and won't be getting any higher if you truly think this "same" team through its 13 game winning streak is gonna be able to to chalk it up to a bad night come March. You think those stats will show up in March and show those trends?

You really honestly think that an 11 man rotation with no clear cut rotation between 5 "big's, and two 2 SF's is the way to go? This "same" team has lost twice and should have been a third if that kid doesn't miss a FT with 2 secs in the game. Are you not sesing the trends of this team between the personnel being completely jumbled?

Kansas is playing 11 guys and 7 of them are so sporadic in their minutes and roles...Graham, Mason, Selden, and Ellis don't know how to play with those other guys. That is regardless of a W or L. This most insane thing to do is continue with a with this "same" course of action and mindset and believe it's sane.

So...when KU plays another good team just chalk it up to another bad game if they lose? What about if they lose in the ncaa tournament in the second round again? How do you define another "good" team by the way?

Jay Scott 2 years, 11 months ago

The rotation is clear to anyone. It changes slightly to match the opponent. Be honest Chris. What you really mean to say is that the rotation favors experience and on court performance over recruiting rankings, high school all star games and hype. This drives you completely bonkers as evidenced by your endless whining about it. If your earlier post where 3 point shooting had fallen by the wayside because of games where they shot 50% and 40.9% is any measuring stick, your opinion, frankly, is worth pretty much nothing. I'm open to any rational, fact based counterpoint you have.

Chris Shaw 2 years, 11 months ago

I'm open to having any thoughtful discussion that is rational. I 100 percent agree with you. However, until you stop the personal attacks and the "idiots" and "stupids" directed not only at me but others...I won't ever give you the time of the day. .

See jay, there is gonna come a time when you realize that what you've been doing on this message boards is inappropriate. My real name is Chris Shaw and I'm from Gardner, Ks and I currently live in North Carolina. I stand by everything I say because I'm not anonymous. I started in this board back in 2005 under KUshaw and switched to BigManU in 2011. Not my first rodeo.

You should be embarrassed at the manner in which speak and respond to people. There will be a day i think you regret your words. Everything is tracked. I know nothing about you but if your employer ever found out about your comments on here, they would be none to happy. Wouldn't be surprised if you got fired.

With that said, until that day you respect someone's opinion with a valid response that's not attacking them personally, maybe you will get a response from me. But it won't happen because I don't think your have the capability to speak in that tone. Good day to you.

Sincerely and always

Your favorite chicken little

Jay Scott 2 years, 11 months ago

Didn't you just "give me the time of day"?

In the real world Chris,when you say stupid things in public, people have the right to scrutinize them. If that scrutiny makes you so crazy, maybe expressing your thoughts in public isn't healthy for you.

Brett McCabe 2 years, 11 months ago

The trend I see is 0-3 and an OT win in AFH.

Bill Kackley 2 years, 11 months ago

I just love it that the posters know so much more than the coaches and players and that they think their advice is needed. Guys thats why they are doing the job and when they don't do as good a job as you think they should, and I'm sure they don't either, they run right to this blog to see what they need to do to do better.

Jay Scott 2 years, 11 months ago

But they do Bill. And to make their unique genius even more useful, the Chicken Littles swear that Bill Self actually reads these posts so that he can make changes, because he's just a novice. The CLs also insist that Sheahon Zenger consults their opinions on the wisdom of firing or not firing coach Self.

They actually type that in public.

Jay Scott 2 years, 11 months ago

Brett! You're the one that most adamantly made that amazingly idiotic statement. You do deserve the right to claim the shame. Had you not identified yourself, it wasn't "personal" in any way. It's hilarious that you would lack the self control to avoid such humiliation.

Brett McCabe 2 years, 11 months ago

As I said, 0-3 plus an OT win in AFH. We 'got problems with the press.

Kent Richardson 2 years, 11 months ago

It's pretty simple.

We are a pretty good team. Not great yet.

Perry is a really good player. He will get his 15-20 points. He is not going to be a 25-30 point guy so he does need some help.

If we don't shoot well from outside we are in trouble. Either we let teams hang around or if it is a good team we get down and can't come back. Tough defensive teams like MSU and WVU upset our apple cart.

We have displayed weakness inside from day one and still are unable to score there.

We cannot stop dribble penetration. All teams are able to get to the hoop and score.

So we are a guard oriented team with good guards.

This result is indicative of how we are in a cauldron of 20 or so teams, at least for now, that will vie for postseason higher seeding.

I hope we win the twelfth straight title because it is such a great accomplishment and we have a rare opportunity to knock off UCLA from the all time lead with a couple of more. I am not obsessing about it but will celebrate our success.

Jared Reeves 2 years, 11 months ago

Kent,

I think you hit the nail right on the head. We are a good team, not a great team. I think we all remember great KU teams of the past, and someone would be fooling themselves if they thought this was a great team.

Everyone was hoping that Diallo would be the missing piece, which is why so many of us were pining for him to get more playing time and develop that future potential now. It doesn't look like that will happen, so we should celebrate whatever success we can get. It is always possible that we turn into a better team, or at least play better than our opponents, when it matters. But it it very unlikely this team will ever be great.

Brett McCabe 2 years, 11 months ago

I thought that this was going to be a great team heading into the season, without Diallo. I thought that we would handle WVU commandingly last night. This loss doesn't shake my belief that this will be a great team. However, 4-5 on the road does not get it done this year, so our experience needs to start showing in road games, in tough environments.

Kent Richardson 2 years, 11 months ago

It was nice to see Bragg hit the three. I think Cheick has read his press releases about high motor. lol. Instead of progressing into the realm of basketball savvy he tends to get more frantic because he knows he is not impacting games as he is used to. I think that Diallo makes two good plays a game, Carlton is up to three a game and Hunter along with Landon is at three or four. Jamari can be up around six or so depending on the opponent but is around the four area most games. If we went to a five big line up we could get Bill his 50-40 game. In order to be a great team we need this whole group to double up their contribution to make a ten point swing in our outcomes. Any takers on the over?

I can only tell Svi and Brannen apart by their jersey numbers because the misses and makes look the same. When they contribute 12-15 points and 6 boards a game we seem to roll. They disappear like Wayne was wont to do his first two years.

No lock down defender, Wayne is the only one with the size to make it happen but I am not holding my breath on that one.

Perry, Wayne, Frank and DeVonte are at their ceiling. And thank goodness for that.

I think the most realistic path is for Brannen and Svi to "unleash the hounds" and take our lumps otherwise.

David Kemp 2 years, 11 months ago

Yes this is the same team as last year one year older. Same Lucas, traylor, no improvement in the post and no progress by svi or Greene. So back to being reliant on selden, mason , graham and steady as always ellis.

Brett McCabe 2 years, 11 months ago

Kent, you need to check my post under the Keegan ratings. It's spectacularly enlightening and, I think it will be useful by the end of the season. I've trademarked the process: BrettMetrics. So don't even think about trying to rip it off.

Kent Richardson 2 years, 11 months ago

Brett, the ratings post is pretty kool. I can't fault your reason or results. Not to shabby Keegan doesn't always do the ratings himself so you should at least get in the rotation.

Lol, I live for plagiarism!

Chris Shaw 2 years, 11 months ago

How do you answer this? I'm not the only one noticing. I don't care about recruiting because i think it always falls in line but it's a great question.

"The Jayhawks are in on five-star center Marques Bolden, another potential one-and-done stud. But will Bolden really choose Lawrence after seeing what happened to Alexander and now Diallo?"

http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2016/1/13/10759094/kansas-cheick-diallo-nba-draft-2016-jayhawks-recruiting

Brett McCabe 2 years, 11 months ago

For me, it's a simple rule: I call it the Ryan Willis rule. If you are afraid of competing for minutes, then you should sign somewhere else.

Chris Shaw 2 years, 11 months ago

LOL, I'm pretty sure Bragg and Diallo aren't scared of competing. You have to have the opportunity first. Even Alexander got the opportunity last year. Alexander received 20, 15, 21, 14, 23, and 27 minutes respectively in his first 6 conference games. Feel free to look up both Bragg and Diallo's minutes to compare. And, both Bragg and Diallo are not only longer but both have more talent than Alexander. It's hard to deny the perception. It is kind of comical that it's a 6 big rotation.

Chris Shaw 2 years, 11 months ago

You really think Bragg and Diallo were scared of competing with what Kansas had in its roster?

Suzi Marshall 2 years, 11 months ago

That's such a BS article and we all know it. Everyone has said how badly the NCAA did for Diallo, not question. Diablo needed those first few games for development but was robbed. There is no way he can play big minutes now in the heat of the conference race, unless he shows in practice.

As for Alexander last year...give me a break. What Alexander did, he did to himself.

Chris Shaw 2 years, 11 months ago

Why is it a BS article? Diallo's draft stratus has gone from lottery to nearly out of the first round and the kid hasn't really done anything wrong. Is Diallo coming to Kansas better for ot better for Kansas?

You think 5 games would have been the right number for him to figure out his development. He dropped his career high effortlessly in his first game and hasn't seen anywhere near that opportunity since. His per 40 average projects out as the second best "big".

Jay Scott 2 years, 11 months ago

Many players draft stock drops. They generally don't do anything wrong, unless you mean fouls, turnovers, ill advised shots etc. They just don't do enough things right.

Diallo isn't the first, and won't be the last.

Tom Jones 2 years, 11 months ago

SB Nation is not a credible source, unfortunately. It's just a piece to stir the pot.

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