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Monday, January 11, 2016

Numbers game: WVU not awed by KU’s lofty ranking

West Virginia’s Devin Williams (41) beats Kansas State’s D.J. Johnson to a rebound during WVU’s 87-83, double-overtime victory over the Wildcats on Jan. 2 in Manhattan. The No. 17 (but likely to rise) Mountaineers will host top-ranked Kansas on Tuesday in a battle of Big 12 co-leaders.

West Virginia’s Devin Williams (41) beats Kansas State’s D.J. Johnson to a rebound during WVU’s 87-83, double-overtime victory over the Wildcats on Jan. 2 in Manhattan. The No. 17 (but likely to rise) Mountaineers will host top-ranked Kansas on Tuesday in a battle of Big 12 co-leaders.

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West Virginia’s Devin Williams isn’t awed by Kansas University’s No. 1 national ranking heading into Tuesday’s Big 12 Conference showdown, set for a 6 p.m., Central time, tipoff (ESPN2) in Morgantown, West Virginia.

“(Kansas) is No. 1. But what does that mean? What if we were put in the Top 10 when we first started? Where would we be? There’s nothing we can do about that number they got,” Williams told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on Saturday after the Mountaineers’ 77-60 home victory over Oklahoma State at WVU Coliseum.

“We had to put ourselves in the Top 25,” Williams added. “At the end of the day, we should feel disrespected, because we’re just as good as anybody in the country — starting five to bench. We can play with anybody in the country.”

KU and West Virginia have identical 14-1, 3-0 records. Yet the Jayhawks are indeed the country’s No. 1 team in the AP poll, while the Mountaineers checked in at No. 17 last week.

WVU could be a Top 10 team when the latest poll comes out today.

More importantly, after Tuesday, just one team — KU or WVU — will be the only remaining unbeaten in the conference. West Virginia has won at Kansas State and TCU and beaten OSU at home. KU downed Texas Tech, 69-59, on Saturday in Lubbock and has won home games against Oklahoma and Baylor.

“I think it’ll be a war. They’re going to pressure us. We have to handle pressure,” KU coach Bill Self said after Saturday’s win. “We also will have to be able to guard them and have plenty of energy. That’ll be a juiced-up atmosphere playing there. It may be as juiced as anyplace we go this year. They could be in the Top 10. We’ll be ranked real high. It’ll be a great atmosphere. We’ll certainly get unbelievable effort from them.”

KU, by the way, has taken a No. 8 national ranking to West Virginia each of the past two seasons. The Jayhawks lost both times — to an unranked Mountaineer team, 92-86, in 2014 and 62-61, to No. 23-rated WVU, last Feb. 16.

Winning on road: KU forward Perry Ellis has been around long enough — four years, in fact — to know all wins on the road classify as good wins.

“It’s always tough every game you go play. You always get their best shot,” Ellis said after Saturday’s 10-point win.

“It’s always a tough game for us down here,” he added of Lubbock, where KU needed an Andrew Wiggins tip to win at the buzzer two seasons ago. “We fought to the end.

“It’s always a great feeling to get that road win,” added Ellis, who scored 15 points and grabbed 10 rebounds in 31 minutes. He also had two assists, three turnovers and a block.

The Jayhawks were able to survive an off night from two of their three starting guards.

Wayne Selden Jr., who did not score the first half, wound up with nine points off 4-of-13 shooting in 33 minutes. Devonté Graham had four points off 1-of-6 shooting, with four boards, two assists and one turnover in 30 minutes. The other starting guard, Frank Mason III, had 17 points, 10 rebounds, five assists and two turnovers in 31 minutes.

“Frank played like the best point guard in the country,” Selden said. “We needed him tonight because me and Devonté weren’t there. When Frank steps up like that, it’s big for us.”

Graham also lauded Mason’s effort.

“Unbelievable energy. We feed off him,” Graham said. “He always is aggressive. He made shots for us late. Ten boards is big considering we outrebounded them by 16 (42-26). Getting on the boards was big, and he hit some big shots.”

Mason hit three of eight floor shots (three of six threes) and was 8-for-8 from the line.

“He’s as good at anybody at forcing help and getting his shoulders past people,” Self said. “He backs out of way too many plays. A lot of times he’ll move the ball right when the ball screen is being set, which is fine for anybody else, but not for him because he’s so good off ball screens. There’s a lot of times he can play ‘Take ’Em,’ when in all honesty he doesn’t do that near as often as what I’d like. He’s learning, and I tried to rest him more tonight.

“It seemed he didn’t play much, and he played 33 minutes. It seemed to me I didn’t have him out there as much. I think he can give us a lot more.”

Bragg fares well: Freshman forward Carlton Bragg, who started the second half, had four points off 2-of-3 shooting, with three boards and three turnovers in 14 minutes.

“I thought he was great,” Self said. “He made one bad play. We had total momentum. He tries to back down that big fella (Norense Odiase) and turned it over, which led to a runout. Hunter (Mickelson) ... I knew they (Red Raiders) would go to him, and that would have been his third foul to start (second half). Landen had three (first half); Mari (Jamari Traylor) had three. I wanted to see if he (Bragg) could get out there and buy some time. I think he did a nice job.”

More road talk: Graham agreed with Ellis that life on the road will be tough again this year.

“It was our first conference road game. All games on the road are big,” Graham said. “In order to be a good team you’ve got to be able to win on the road. It was a big win. We have another big one on Tuesday.”

Olson watch list: KU’s Ellis is one of six players in the Big 12 who have been placed on the Lute Olson midseason watch list. The award goes to the country’s top Div. I player who has played at least two seasons. Other Big 12 players on the list: Monté Morris, Georges Niang, Iowa State; Rico Gathers, Baylor; Buddy Hield, Oklahoma; and Williams, West Virginia.

Comments

Kit Duncan 5 years, 9 months ago

Every school's fans circle their calendars for the day Kansas comes to town. Not only does KU's team get the best efforts of the other schools' teams, their fans come ready to make a lot of noise when Kansas is in their building.

The Kansas players know they have to play their best every night if they want to win, while opposing teams often play well above their ability against the Jayhawks. Witness TCU's home win against KU a couple years ago. That isn't the case with WVU. They are a legitimate contender for the Big XII title at this point.

Bill Self is as good as any coach in the country at getting wins on the road and defending home turf. The Big XII championship may run through Lawrence, but it takes more wins on the road than the rest of the teams in the league to secure it.

RCJH!

KJ Quartermaine 5 years, 9 months ago

"Bill Self is as good as any coach in the country at getting wins on the road and defending home turf."

You don't say? Thank you captain obvious

Brett McCabe 5 years, 9 months ago

Glad you told us, because it was't remotely funny.

Marius Rowlanski 5 years, 9 months ago

Hope you're not making a living as a comedian..

Kit Duncan 5 years, 9 months ago

Kansas won only 4 out of 9 games on the road last season, yet won the Big XII championship outright, by defending its home turf. It may be obvious to you, but apparently the other league teams and their coaches haven't figured out how to equal Bill Self's record in the Big XII. Rick Barnes had the best conference away record during his tenure at Texas, behind Coach Self, yet couldn't keep his job!

John Randall 5 years, 9 months ago

Not 'pithy' so much as a reminder of the fact that success in a top conference has to start with defending home turf.

Kent Richardson 5 years, 9 months ago

It seems whenever someone (Williams) plays the "I feel dissed card" it is about to become clear why.

Joe Joseph 5 years, 9 months ago

My guess is Bill Self isn't a huge fan of using "locker room material" as motivation, but if he is then Mr. Williams just provided him with some.

Kent Richardson 5 years, 9 months ago

I think watching film of Williams would be enough. He is a beast on the offensive boards. We tend to stand around too much instead of being a box out group. I think this will be a 40m war.

Len Shaffer 5 years, 9 months ago

Nice column, Gary, but Lute "Olson"??? Really???

Brett McCabe 5 years, 9 months ago

Has anyone ever tried pressing-back at WVU? You know, smack the bully in the mouth?

Should be a great game. It would be nice to show Devin why we are ranked number one, even though he has a point - rankings at this point of the year are pretty much worthless.

Kent Richardson 5 years, 9 months ago

If we do then this game could be in the 90's. Use our speed. Will Brannen and Svi be dribbling it off or down their legs? DeVonte and Frank can protect the ball and breaking the press or creating steals can lead to close in shots and spotting Brannen and Svi in the corners.

Third tough game in a row. If we win this one we may be unanimous.

Kent Richardson 5 years, 9 months ago

Thanks Jared, Sir, what would I do without you. Lol. As I am slipping into early, mid or late dementia it is always a challenge.

As the SJA always said "even if the division band comes over and plays, it's still 6/6/bust/and a kick."

Jared Reeves 5 years, 9 months ago

Kent, I think this is the 4th tough game in a row. Baylor is a really good team, even though we beat them easily at home.

It seems like there are no cupcakes this year, like in years past. TCU and K-State both seem to be decent teams. Sometimes I wish Nebraska and Texas A&M were still in the league, so we could get some easy wins.

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

A&M is ranked 21 and will likely rise to 17-18 today, maybe above ISU. They have length and depth and would be as tough a matchup for Kansas as anyone.

Ed Manning 5 years, 9 months ago

Um, you do know that A&M is no longer in the Big 12 right, they moved to the SEC. Doubt they will figure in the Big 12 race this year.......

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

"It seems like there are no cupcakes this year, like in years past. TCU and K-State both seem to be decent teams. Sometimes I wish Nebraska and Texas A&M were still in the league, so we could get some easy wins." Jared Reeves

Didn't read the post I was responding to, did you?

RJ King 5 years, 9 months ago

That's why he said "WOULD" be, like IF they were still in our conference.

Kent Richardson 5 years, 9 months ago

They have talented recruits and more coming in.

Chris Shaw 5 years, 9 months ago

Holy "Chicken Little"...stop the honey mustard sauce. I agree with Jay Scott in response to A&M. A&M has a nice young squad on their hands. They lost a couple transfers which was mind boggling IMO, but A&M would finish anywhere from 2nd-5th in the Big 12 this year. They have a great shot at finishing in the Top 3 in the SEC.

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

As many of my posts as you've nibbled on, you had to become wiser.....

Rodney Crain 5 years, 9 months ago

That wasn't it, you have modifed your behavior and we all are grateful.

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

Rod. I'm the same. I'll still debunk absurd ideas,(as I have with some on this link) It's just that nobody is declaring that the sky is falling or that Self should be fired, and we all are grateful!

Rodney Crain 5 years, 9 months ago

No you have changed, it is tiring to go against the grain. You are calmer. Its ok Change is Good!

Jared Reeves 5 years, 9 months ago

Lol. Chris, you are a funny man. A&M does indeed have a good team this year, just like Nebraska has had good teams in some years. But A&M is not a perennial contender. I would still give KU an edge, even in the years those teams were good. Especially with KU's record of 20-1 against A&M.

Chris Shaw 5 years, 9 months ago

I agree that KU has an edge as KU has an edge against most opponents. I just think A&M isn't a cupcake as you made it out to be. They have a nice squad that could make a sweet 16 run in the tourny. They have really nice young pieces.

Jared Reeves 5 years, 9 months ago

Chris,

I agree that A&M is definitely not a cupcake this year. And we had some good games against them in the past, but we had a lot of easy wins against them too. Baylor is usually a good team too, but we seem to own them, more often than not.

Aaron Paisley 5 years, 9 months ago

A&M is one of the 9 home losses Self has. Turgeon and Gillespie made A&M a very solid program that wasn't an easy win.

Jared Reeves 5 years, 9 months ago

Aaron,

However, that was our only loss to A&M in 21 games. I will take those odds any day.

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

I would too if they were remotely relevant. Not a soul from those games is still wearing Maroon or Blue.

Aaron Paisley 5 years, 9 months ago

KU has runs like that against most Big 12 opponents on a consistent basis, doesn't change that A&M was a difficult game the last half of their tenure in the Big 12.

Tom Jones 5 years, 9 months ago

It really wasn't.

Since 05-06, margin of victories were 10, 17, 6, 20, 5, 13, 13, 10, 8 and 17. Avg 12 pts/game.

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

How is there any logic in matching defensive schemes simply for matching sake? Should teams zone-back at Baylor or 'Cuse? Or should teams employ a High-Low offense against Kansas?

Pressing teams have pressed WVU. Teams that don't, don't.

Kent Richardson 5 years, 9 months ago

Jay, it's just a BB maxim. "Press a pressing team."

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

Beyond the reason that it makes no sense if you're not already a pressing team, trying something against a team that uses it in every practice is sledding uphill. That's not to say a team with experience, speed and depth, like KU wouldn't have a better shot than most teams.

Brett McCabe 5 years, 9 months ago

Kent, it's interesting. I think that we've been more effective running the press this year than I can remember in the past. Of course, it's not a part of Self's M.O. but with two outstanding guards, a mobile 4 and a bit of a rim protector in Hunter, this team might actually be able to use the press as a disruptor more often than in the past. Plus, with a fat bench, we could absorb the pace pretty well.

Will we see much of it? Of course not, but its good to consider options for the fun of it.

Rodney Crain 5 years, 9 months ago

not a bad idea, we have the team this year to at least give it a try.

Marius Rowlanski 5 years, 9 months ago

Going off memory here but pretty sure Roy pressed The Razorbacks back in the '91 Elite 8 game making Arkansas live through 'Forty Minutes of Hell' that Richardson promised the Jayhawks...

Jim Keen 5 years, 9 months ago

We live close enough to Morgantown that we can drive over from Maryland to see the JAYHAWKS play there and have done so the last two years. It's a tough place to play, and those last two games there have been ugly. I'll be there tomorrow night and hoping for a better outcome. Should be a great game. RCJH!!

Humpy Helsel 5 years, 9 months ago

Where your colors proud, Jim. But be careful. About half of the crowd is related to each other.

Humpy Helsel 5 years, 9 months ago

Maybe I'm from WVA. I meant to say "wear your colors proudly."

Jared Reeves 5 years, 9 months ago

Should be a tough game. I think we have a better shot this year because we play faster than in years past, thanks in part to Graham being in the starting line-up. I expect Traylor to get a lot of minutes, since he is one of our quicker big men, and decent ball handler for a big. Diallo may also get some extended minutes, assuming he can take care of the ball. I imagine Diallo could really take advantage of a press, finishing some nice lobs.

Benny Armstrong 5 years, 9 months ago

While West Virginia matches well with us in terms of height (none of their key players are listed as over 6'9"), I doubt we see much of Diallo in this game unless he's shown something in practice to make Self trust him more or Williams is on the bench in foul trouble.

Yes he has the ability to get on the end of lobs when we break their press and score easy baskets, but I think he'll get his lunch eaten by Williams on the defensive end picking up cheap fouls or allowing easy baskets and Self won't allow for that. Diallo still has a long way to go in terms of maturing physically and I think matching him up against a senior with 30 extra lbs and years of experience would be a mistake. I believe Jamari will guard him most of the game if he can stay out of foul trouble, and Hunter will be our second option since he is our best blocker and moves better than the other bigs on our bench. Should be a brutal game to watch and hopefully the refs are ready to call fouls all night.

Jared Reeves 5 years, 9 months ago

Benny, you may be right about Diallo. He may be a defensive liability, and Self seems to prefer defense over offense. I always remember Self's familiar refrain that you have to attack a pressing team, and I would think Diallo might be the 3rd best Big at doing that (other than Ellis and Traylor).

I am not sure Hunter or Lucas are quick enough to get up and down with WV, and Bragg seems turnover prone. Self may just see who is playing the best and stick with that. I too hope the refs call a tight game.

Benny Armstrong 5 years, 9 months ago

Jared, thanks for the response. I agree with your assessments and seem to recall Self saying something about attacking the press. Using it against them and being able to run offense against an out of position defense plays well into our hands as a great passing team and could provide many easy buckets. I also agree that after Jamari and Perry there aren't any bigs that stand out as having the speed and stamina to survive an up and down game like this might become so that could test our depth.

I wonder if Self decides to surprise everyone for stretches and go "small" with Greene or Svi at the 4, or perhaps they throw a junk defense out there like a box and one or another variation of the zone to muddy it up? This could also be a great opportunity to open the game on a mission with post feed after post feed to force contact and draw fouls on their bigs to totally alter the game by getting Williams on the bench early. Lot of things going on in this one that could make for an interesting game from a strategy standpoint. It will be fun to watch how it unfolds, though I'm prepped for a lot of free throws. As Kent said, I'm taking the over.

Freddie Garza 5 years, 9 months ago

Gonna be a tough, physical game. Bob Huggins teams are always mentally tough and physical. The boys better bring their lunch pail for this one.

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

A great Seth Davis comment from SI

• Let’s stop the kvetching about Cheick Diallo before it gathers any more steam. The 6'9" freshman forward played a total of eight minutes in Kansas wins over Oklahoma and Texas Tech last week. Diallo is a good athlete with a great basketball body, but he was always considered raw offensively. Besides, the Jayhawaks have two upperclassmen big men in Jamari Traylor and Landen Lucas who are much more ready to help their team win. Diallo is not going to play much this season, and if he’s even smart about it, he is not going to try to enter the NBA draft. Rather, he is going to stay in Lawrence and develop his game with one of the best coaches in the history of the sport. When he’s ready to play, Bill Self will play him. Period.

RJ King 5 years, 9 months ago

The kvetching over the games he missed is justified. We'll never know how much missing the early games hurt his progress. Maybe a lot, maybe not that much. It shouldn't have happened.

But yes, time to move on, deal with the now, and not make a bad situation worse (like by jumping too soon).

Joe Ross 5 years, 9 months ago

Good find and I definitely agree with Seth Davis on the point of Diallo returning. I think if he wouldnt have gotten hosed by the NCAA clearinghouse those early five games might have helped him. And too bad he couldnt have competed somewhere in the summer.

Mick Allen 5 years, 9 months ago

Good post Jay. I hope Diallo listens to the right people when the question of his "NBA readiness" is posed.

Rodney Crain 5 years, 9 months ago

Will be interesting to see what happens with him after the season is over. Will the new rules be in play on declaring for the draft?

If he stays it might be hard to get a high recruit to come in at his position. Wish we had at least a top 50 PF or SF commited already. That might be all we need.

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

If Diallo stays....Lucas, Bragg, Diallo, Coleby and Lightfoot. Mason, Graham, Vick, Greene and most likely Svi. It would take another Wiggins or Embiid to have any impact as a freshman next year.

Rodney Crain 5 years, 9 months ago

I don't see a skilled post player who can score in your list. You have to replace Perrys scoring down low and sitting with a pat hand is not the way to do it. I like Bragg but he has a long way to go to score like that. Coleby is a 15min/5points a game player in the SEC. He is not the answer coming back from a ACL. Lucas? Lightfoot? DIallo? We need a scorer in the post from recruiting.

Like I said a top 50 PF or SF, really a top 21 player cause this is all that are left that can score in the post is going to play next year. At least 15-20mins.

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

If Bragg and Diallo can't provide scoring as sophomores then a freshman isn't any more likely to, IMHO. Jarrett Allen? Is he better than Diallo or Bragg at this time next year? Who knows. You're likely right about Coleby. I see he and Lucas as a platoon at center unless Bolden signs and wows or Diallo goes off.

Rodney Crain 5 years, 9 months ago

A top post player, like Bolden, would make a difference and play next year with Perry leaving. Self will play a freshman post player who can score. We are barely in the hunt for the remaining players. If Diallo leaves and we do not sign anyone it could be a rough year for us down low. I like Lucas, Diallo and Bragg but they just are not natural consistent scorer's

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

Rod. How do you assume that the 16th ranked player would play ahead of, or contribute more, than the 5th and 21th ranked players from last year as sophomores(or Lucas)? He may, but there's no logic to support that. Coleby is a crafty, experienced player and even with the injury has had a year to get acclimated to Self's system.

Rodney Crain 5 years, 9 months ago

How can you assume they won't? You are not making sense. We need a top post up player. You do not lose 3 guys, a starter, and a couple of rotation guys and get better.

Chris Shaw 5 years, 9 months ago

I think Bragg has Arthur potential written all over him and he's longer. Bragg and Diallo together with one in the year in the system IMO makes them a 2 and done duo gives KU a chance to go back to back (See how insinuated KU wins the title this year) with KU's entire backcourt.

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

At this point, no recruit who has any shot of making a contribution next year is signing until Svi and Diallo decide in April. If they both come back, nobody signs and the Jayhawks are the strong favorite. Maybe I'm wrong and Allen or Bolden sign and expect to be in Lawrence multiple seasons. All good outcomes.

Rodney Crain 5 years, 9 months ago

Maybe but he needs about 15-25pounds to bang for 20 mins in the post and score. Back to Back? Mercy we win a few games in a row and you are having delusions of grandeur about our team. :)) I will take a final four and be happy with anything more than that.

Benz Junque 5 years, 9 months ago

The good news is that next season is a LONG WAYS AWAY so a guy like Bragg who has a long ways to go will in fact have, a long time to get there.

Chris Shaw 5 years, 9 months ago

I've always liked Huggy Bear. He has uncooth approach to coaching and I like it. Looking forward to this game against WVU.

Devin Williams reminds me a lot of TROB. He definitely brings the beast mode. Looking forward to the Kansas "Big's" going up against him.

Rodney Crain 5 years, 9 months ago

Ahhhhhh good posts and discussions, mostly respectful of each other, very nice.

Brett McCabe 5 years, 9 months ago

I'm not sure that this is as much of a challenge as it's cracked up to be. I'll actually be fairly disappointed if we don't win with some command. WVU doesn't have a quality win this year and got blown out by UVA.

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

Holy crap! Excellent observation! From Brett! What did you have for lunch? Suddenly winning the Powerball drawing doesn't seem so far fetched.

Brett McCabe 5 years, 9 months ago

Then I'll retract it. I'd rather be wrong than have a condescending d-bag like you in agreement.

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

You're certainly accustomed to being wrong, so that would be easier.

Jared Reeves 5 years, 9 months ago

Brett,

You may be right, WVU's strength of schedule is weak; but they are ranked 10th by kenpom and seem to play above average at home, especially for big games. Here's hoping you are right!

Suzi Marshall 5 years, 9 months ago

Damn, I wish you wouldn't say or write that kind of thing. We are all probably thinking the same thing but feel voicing that opinion will inspire some kind of unwarrented hubris and a bad defeat. ...bad karma

Kent Richardson 5 years, 9 months ago

My fallible reasoning has it KU 80-76. Boy George theme song, cue it up!

Joe Ross 5 years, 9 months ago

When you believe in things that you dont understand then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way.

--Stevie Wonder

Rodney Crain 5 years, 9 months ago

I feel the same way Suzi, Tech was not a walk in the park like some think and WV is always tough at home. ...bad karma indeed!

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

Kansas was favored by 7 and won by ten. This game is a "pick'em"

Rodney Crain 5 years, 9 months ago

Point spreads are used to get people to bet. When we play a weak team we are favored to win by 20 or 30 so people will bet that we won't cover. Favored by 7 and winning by 10 just means we covered the betting line.

We scored late, 4 or 5 points to widen that lead they were fouling us, it was way too close to call it an easy win. Gritty win yes, our guards finished it off, but it was not a walk.

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

They're influenced by bettors, which in the TTU case means that without the pro Kansas money the line might have been 5. They're still set based on who will win and how much, then adjusted for money action.

Brett McCabe 5 years, 9 months ago

RC is right. Point spreads are designed to even the load, and the last time I saw, bettors get it wrong more than they get it right. That's how casinos are built.

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

This is too easy.........

Brett...when the line is first established. When a casino first sets it, and it first goes up on the board. ..how much money has been bet? Hint. ZERO.

Then how do they set it? A) Based on which team will win and by how much B) Based on the money that's been bet.

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

Question - when the line is first established. When a casino first sets it, and it first goes up on the board. ..how much money has been bet? Hint. ZERO. Then how do they set it? A) Based on which team will win and by how much B) Based on the money that's been bet.

Brett's answer - Wrong Again

Brett. There's no possible way that anyone could ever make you look more idiotic than you do on your own. The saddest part, you do it angrily and can't help yourself.

Suzi Marshall 5 years, 9 months ago

I've spent way too much time in Vegas over the past several years. Scott is right and the spread, after initially set, is determined by the resulting money action. Pure capitalism. Money talks, BS walks.

Rodney Crain 5 years, 9 months ago

If this is right Joe then spreads are set by numerous factors and are there to get people to bet. Not just who will win.

Once betting starts, depending on where the money is bet, the point spread is adjusted to even out the bet. It does not matter who is betting, it does not matter where the money is coming from the spread is adjusted by betting, not people thinking who is going to win. Fans of both teams who bet might bet against their team to win, if they do not think they will cover.

Jay you misunderstand how a point spread works plain and simple.

Suzi do you win alot in Vegas? I am thinking no, so you might want to review how a point spread works.

Last night Millions changed hands when Clemson scored. Clemson was trying to win the game not beat the point spread. Trust me they really do not care that they covered. They lost the game is all they see and don't care that AL was favored.

Suzi Marshall 5 years, 9 months ago

Not sure why you would say that because Ross' link verifies what I said...i.e. the spread, once set, is determined by the "action" placed. While at Kansas, Math was one of my majors. Early on I read McNeil's work. By the way, Ed Deming's methods for Statistical Process Control (SPC) uses basically the same principles. SPC is the foundation for the Six-Sigma QC and the ISO Standards now used all over the world.

Bryce Landon 5 years, 9 months ago

"Kansas is No. 1, but what does mean?"

Be careful what you ask, Devin; you might just find out.

Joseph Bullock 5 years, 9 months ago

I just come back on this site, and you guys are already arguing, to start out this New Year! Surprise, Surprise, Surprise! LOL And by the way, if you have the quickness, intelligence, talent, and a deep bench, pressing a pressing team will often work, if you have pressed in other games, which we have! But we will not 'all out press', all game long. But we don't want to wear out out 'two' primary ball handlers, so I'm not sure we will press WV! I think for the most part, we will use a token press, but, who knows. It may simply depend on how the game is going, for us, and we may not need to press at all. I do think we will be shooting a lot of layups and uncontested 3's off of beating their press, especially if they use a zone press against us!

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

If that's all you have Joe I, for one, would imagine that you weren't missed. Sorry that you find it distasteful for people to have differing viewpoints. Have you considered China?

Brett McCabe 5 years, 9 months ago

So, you are saying that Bill Self should be fired?

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

It's always only a matter of time for you, isn't it Brett?

Brett McCabe 5 years, 9 months ago

Till I instruct you on the ins and outs of athletics. Yeah, it just depends when I finally get in the mood to teach some remedial sports strategy.

Jay Scott 5 years, 9 months ago

That made even less sense than you usually do Brett. Posting your ideas in public is already a bad idea for you. Please don't do it drunk.

Rodney Crain 5 years, 9 months ago

Actually it is Bryce that says Self should be fired.

Rodney Crain 5 years, 9 months ago

Jay is Jay, he makes up fake sign ins to post likes and comments to himself so he looks viable (Kerry Casch and others). He argues with anyone on anything even when he is the first to post. He posts around 32% of the posts on most articles usually with insults, long rambling posts to nowhere and using personal cyber stalking information if he can find it. Anything to make himself look superior on here. Even though almost everyone dislikes him when he does this. Reason, Chicken Littles, non Chicken Littles, it does not matter, the dude has no control or filter.

He think he has personally cleared the board of all Chicken Littles, when in fact it is the team winning and everyone but Jay is fairly happy about the team. Heck your #1, long winning streak, playing well, what is not to like? Its down to one think - Jay Scott is what not to like.

The definition of a troll is Jay Scott.

Joseph Bullock 5 years, 9 months ago

And as far as bulletin board material, I think Dialo may have something to show in this game, as will our whole team. Remember this: Andrew Lucks dad, is the NCAA guy who blatantly and unfairly, kept denying Dialo eligibility, is the guy who was the AD at WV, who put the clause in Huggins contract, that he gets $25,000 any time WV beats Kansas. So we are definitely gonna kick their: I better shut my mouth-cause it's a New Year! Ha ha ha ha ha

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