Monday, October 26, 2015

Former KU football coach Mangino out as Iowa State’s offensive coordinator

Kansas head coach David Beaty congratulates Iowa State offensive coordinator and former KU head coach Mark Mangino following the Cyclones' 38-13 win over the Jayhawks on Saturday, Oct. 3, 2015 at Jack Trice Stadium in Ames, Iowa.

Kansas head coach David Beaty congratulates Iowa State offensive coordinator and former KU head coach Mark Mangino following the Cyclones' 38-13 win over the Jayhawks on Saturday, Oct. 3, 2015 at Jack Trice Stadium in Ames, Iowa.


— Iowa State coach Paul Rhoads says offensive coordinator Mark Mangino has left the program.

Rhoads says he and Mangino haven't been on the same page for weeks. Rhoads wouldn't say whether Mangino quit or was fired.

The move Monday came on the same day Iowa State promoted sophomore Joel Lanning to a starting role over senior Sam Richardson, but Rhoads says Lanning's promotion was not the reason Mangino left.

Rhoads announced that passing game coordinator Todd Sturdy will take over for Mangino, starting with Saturday's game against Texas (3-4, 2-2 Big 12).

Mangino was 50-48 in eight seasons as the coach at Kansas. He joined Rhoads' staff prior to last season.

Iowa State (2-5, 1-3) is averaging 26.9 points per game.


John Fitzgerald 4 years, 5 months ago

I think we're all patiently waiting for DC's "defense" of Mark Mangino comment... Aaaannny second now.

Aaron Paisley 4 years, 5 months ago

Mangino's still not playing well with others I see.

Joe Ross 4 years, 5 months ago

I dont see any evidence that the parting of ways had anything at all to do with a clash of personalities or inability to get along.

Aaron Paisley 4 years, 5 months ago

Rhoads didn't agree with Mangino's play calling or personnel decisions and Mangino refused to make the changes his boss asked. He was basically let go for insubordination.

Read Matt's Big news in Big 12 article because it gives a little more detail on the situation and that it was something that had been building for awhile. It sounds like a similar situation between Mangino and Perkins because that 2009 investigation didn't happen because of one incident. It basically paints the picture that Mangino still has issues with authority figures.

Joe Ross 4 years, 5 months ago

I think we're both influenced by what we already know or feel about MM. I read the article you site and my interpretation is that Rhoads hired Mangino to coordinate the offense but he (Rhoads) doesn't want him to coordinate it. There are largely two things that go into an OC's job description: calling plays and choosing personnel. Rhoads wants those responsibilities himself evidently, so why even hire a coordinator if you won't let him coordinate.

Paul Rhoads is acting like Gerard in Boomerang.

Aaron Paisley 4 years, 5 months ago

The thing is, Paul Rhoads is still Mangino's boss and whether or not. Even if you have a bad boss, you still have to listen to him and do what he says or show him your way is better while making it look like his idea which involves a lot of tact which we know Mangino doesn't have. This boils down to Mangino's terrible people skills.

Joe Ross 4 years, 5 months ago

Not necessarily. If an employee has a bad boss, find a different situation. Looks like that's the long and short of it.

Bucking authority isnt always a bad thing. The American Revolution, civil disobedience philosophy under MLK, and I suspect Mangino's exit from ISU all have that in common. Even in the military, where following orders is taken more seriously than just about anywhere, there are times when you are obliged to follow conscious and disobey. This is not at that level, granted. But if Mangino holds privately that by doing what Rhoads' requires would make the ISU team less effective (and I dont think anyone disagrees Mangino feels this to be the case), then sticking to your guns even if it means you're terminated is the appropriate thing to do. This doesn't make one less admirable. On the contrary. One should be commended to holding to principles even if it means one might suffer personal consequences.

Aaron Paisley 4 years, 5 months ago

There's a right way and wrong way to stand your ground and you need to have the results to support standing your ground. Mangino's way clearly hadn't been working for ISU either as they finished last last year were headed for a 9th place finish this year so Mangino's way clearly hasn't been working the past 1.5 years. Paul Rhoads has taken ISU to 3 bowl games, and his 2 worst seasons have been the past 2 years (including this year) with Mangino as OC. Mangino may have been standing his ground here, but the results don't support what Mangino was doing though.

Joe Ross 4 years, 5 months ago

Save in the case of sheer ineptitude, you dont judge the effectiveness of an assistant coach (or head coach for that matter) over a season and a half. Are there exceptions? Sure. But Im not giving you information you dont already know. Confidence that a style is working or isnt normally requires a longer period of time. Rhoads on the other hand has demonstrated failure going back for a number of seasons. To judge the product of their coaching by saying the time in the job for both can be factored out is an obvious mistake. It takes guys time to learn a new system. Rhoads has had ample time during his tenure to implement one (and more). But you cant get all of the wrinkles fit into a style of offense in a year and a half up and down the roster. Simply cant do it.

To the point of having results to establish justification for standing one's ground, the aforementioned rationale applies. But even that argument is secondary to a more obvious reality: results are not required in that situation. A personally held conviction is all that is necessary to follow one's heart and conscience.

As far as ISU's performance, I havent taken the time to review last year. But the offense is scoring well in Big 12 play thus far. 30 ppg in conference play is acquitting oneself well, especially if youre cellar-dwellar ISU, playing the likes of Baylor, TCU, and TT thus far who have all had an offensive outbursts. To lay this at Mangino's feet takes an intentional effort. The defense is being scored on and so one needs to be much more careful in connecting the dots between Rhoadss/ISUs recent performance and Mangino's time as OC. If you would like, Ill be happy to dig into the numbers more thoroughly.

Aaron Paisley 4 years, 5 months ago

I'm just going to say it now that we aren't going to see eye to eye on this because I was around the football team (friends with a few players I'm still in contact with) and know the atmosphere he created and this just sounds too much like the end of Mangino's tenure here when it went in the toilet.

Joe Ross 4 years, 5 months ago

Yes I agree. The problem with your argument is twofold. First of all, unless the opinion of the team congeals around one central opinion (and it doesnt), then the fact that you know a few of them who happen to feel a certain way avails you of very little. Secondly, as far as the "atmosphere" here at the time Mangino was coaching, you can be sure that if you play for a demanding coach youre going to feel the pressure. I played on a State Championship football team and I went to basic training. It wasnt always fun being in those positions, but I was made better by the bark of my mentors. Without question. Young men can tolerate a whole lot more than people think, and facing that kind of adversity can potentially make a team better. Evidence seems to suggest that this is how we improved under Mangino. He was uncompromising with details. Can that be done another way? Perhaps (and this is why Im open to Beaty's style). But it neednt be. Football is a tough sport. If its coached that way then I got no truck with it.

Yes, I have a problem when that kind of behavior spills over to civilians. But even at that its difficult to imagine anyone's being able to concoct a solid argument that he should have been fired.

But all of this is beside the point. There is nothing to suggest that there is anything similar between Manginos situations at Kansas and Iowa State.

Aaron Paisley 4 years, 5 months ago

Basic training and college football do not prepare you for the same situations. The goal of basic is to make you as detached from the emotion of potentially having to kill another human so that you capable of doing that if the time ever comes that have you have to pull the trigger trugger in combat because you don't the enemy as another human being, you only see them as a threat to your life. That's not exactly the short or long term goal of college or high school football. I also had a hard ass for a coach in football and everybody loved him because at the end of the day, we knew he had our back and would help us however he legally could when we needed it.

When the Mangino investigation was going on, there was nobody actively defending Mangino at that point, now why would that be the case? The only time team leaders like Reesing or Meier talked about it was when they were directly asked and they never got into detail and mved on from the topic as quickly as possible.

Mangino has a very well documented history of not getting along with his superiors, running off a bunch assistant coaches, how he treated those in the athletic office. Then you hear that him and his boss at ISU aren't getting along because of a disagreement, that's exactly what butting heads means, and Mangino is then relieved of his duties without clarifying whether he resigned or was fired. That tells me they're trying to determine whether he was fired with or without cause to determine whether they still have to pay him and nobdy is allowed to talk about because it's an ongoing investigation, otherwise there's no reason to not say what happened.

You don't have believe that part, but just ask yourself why this situation happened in the middle of the season and why we still haven't heard whether it was a resignation or a firing.

Joe Ross 4 years, 5 months ago

Your point would have more merit if one were discussing what the goals of football practice vs. basic training are. On the contrary, all I need to show is that barking at young men is not an unreasonable way of extracting performance, that it can be done without damaging their psyche, that many young men in football practice and basic training credit a tough style for their personal progress, and that Mangino is not the first coach in the history of this tough sport to speak above a whisper. The fact that you rarely see the converse of this style--that is to say all "nice" practices--yielding the same level of results, with the fact that the great coaches of the sport (Bellicheck, Lombardi, Strahm, Bryant, etc., etc., etc.) using a tough style speaks volumes. The answer is NO. Young college football players being damaged by a coach with a temper is not an epidemic in this country. We have become way too soft. Again, these young men can tolerate a whole lot more than they're being given credit for, and in a sport as tough as football there is no reason to treat them with kid gloves.

As far as Mangino's antics--nobody is denying that he was a bull in a china cabinet. The question is whether or not his offenses should have risen to the level of firing, and for all youve said there is not one single letter that supports his ouster at Kansas. Not one. All youve done is to build a case that he had a temper, but we already know that. A rational course of action should have interrupted the sequence of events, and it didnt.

As far as no one supporting Mangino, that isnt true either. Most notably, many of his players were supporting him even when they were told not to speak about the situation publicly according to some reports. And I dont know where you live but if you were in Kansas at the time a great many fans had anger and resentment, appropriately and ironically, over Mangino's departure and Lew Perkins.

Erich Hartmann 4 years, 5 months ago

No thanks, I like Rob Likens. As the announcers said of Ryan Willis: Likens cant even install 3/4ths of the offense. The BIGGEST plus to this entire season, is the new frosh that are playing, learning, and getting a ton of experience. Its the only plus. I'll keep Beaty, Bowen, and Likens.

We need continuity of coaching, and O- and D-systems just as bad as we need strong recruiting. Getting that all-important O-line experience is simply monumental down the road (the next 2 seasons).


Doug Cramer 4 years, 5 months ago

Several of us speculated that something was up when Rhoads made that weird comment to the media regarding Mangino and the offense. This was right before the KU game.

John Randall 4 years, 5 months ago

Mangino has never been able to adapt to anyone else's way –– not in his attitude, not in his coaching, not in his leadership, not in his diet. That doesn't fit very well in team situations.

John Boyle 4 years, 5 months ago

He went on a diet so he "fits" in a few more places than he used to.

Tom Longhofer 4 years, 5 months ago

I heard the diet was his problem - like the Snickers commercial, "You're not you when you're hungry". I thought he did some good work at K-State, OU...and KU. I wish him good luck.

Doug Cramer 4 years, 5 months ago

John - what the hell are you talking about ?

The dude helped bring K-States program back from the dead.

He won a National Championship at Oklahoma.

Won an Orange Bowl...and a National Coach of the Year here at KU.

Bee Bee 4 years, 5 months ago

Exactly, Doug. How have things gone since Mangino was fired? The coaches that have, "Adapted" to other people's way have been a disaster.

Stephen Johnson 4 years, 5 months ago

Really, isn't that the question. With all that success, how do continue to get relieved of your duties? Why aren't more programs knocking on your door to hire you. Mangino is a talented coach, but he burns his bridges.

Glen Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

A man named Snyder has more to do with KSU and the success there than fat boy.

Oklahoma won the title based off their defense, not their offense. They also had Stoops and several other young and talented coaches, not just Mangino.

He did take us to a Orange Bowl Championship, but once Reesing and Talib left, we were crap again. He struck lightning in a bottle with some diamonds in the rough. He didn't sustain it and we were left with bare cupboards after he left that to this day have not been restocked. In all honesty, Mangino started this fall to rock bottom.

You are so in love with Mangino that you ignore logic and the truth of the matter.... that Mangino, while having some success at our school was nice, is not the coach you seem to think he was/is. If you get fired from the next to worst team in the country besides us in the Big 5, you're probably not as good as everyone thought.

Joe Ross 4 years, 5 months ago

If his way is better than someone else's, I would "adapt" either. Mangino's pedigree is much richer than Rhoads'. Of the two of them, Mangino has the more impressive resume.

Why would anyone want to "adapt down"?

David Williams 4 years, 5 months ago

The validation of one or the other will be made during the rest of the season w/Rhodes' and the new OC's decisions. Offensive productivity will tell the story. They were a bit more productive vs Baylor than some other teams.

Re MM coaching history, one aspect that he applied well at KU from time w/Snyder and Stoops is to surround yourself with great assistants. To me this is a principal reason for the OB season success in 07/08 - that staff was awesome. That is also why Beaty is the HC now, because he was there during that time.

From people who have been around the program with whom I have spoken over the past several years, some are loyal to him while others could not stand him. A perfect D1 Football HC does not exist. Listen to stories re Saban and Meyer; those guys are not the easiest to deal with, although their system works and they win - every year.

Let's see what the future holds.

Calvin Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

Beaty is HC for a single primary reason---he was the only HC candidate in 2014 that agreed to retain Bowen. But you are correct about Saban and Meyer--MM was a pussycat compared to those coaches.

Joe Ross 4 years, 5 months ago

David. Spot on comment. Yes. MM rubbed some people the wrong way. Great coaches are gonna do that. Saban, Harbaugh, Meyer, whoever. It happens, so whiny fans need to get over that.

As far as the rest of the schedule in the Big 12, the first half of the conference slate contained 2 of the nations top 5 programs. OSU and OU still remain on the schedule but they are a bit off the pace being outside of the top-10 so we are not quite talking apples and apples. Still, ISU was scoring about 30 points per game in conference under Mangino which is pretty good! In the same stretch the defense is giving up 42 points per game. If Rhoads has any real concerns, its that he's playing in a conference where offenses put up huge points in a hurry. Rhoads' attention should be channeled elsewhere, because the point production is enough to win games.

Joe Ross 4 years, 5 months ago

Im glad to know that if your boss tells you to hop around in a pink dress and pumps youll be in compliance! ;)

Michael Leiker 4 years, 5 months ago

But it's exactly why he is can't have widely differing opinions when you're trying to get 100 guys moving in the same direction.

Brett McCabe 4 years, 5 months ago

Paul Rhoads will be next. ISU could quickly be on the brink of replacing us as the losers of the conference.

This pretty much ends it for Mangino, doesn't it? Maybe he takes over an FCS program somewhere?

Brett McCabe 4 years, 5 months ago

You are probably right. Maybe a high school gig.

Joe Ross 4 years, 5 months ago

One of two things is either the case. Either you're serious about the high school comment, in which case you would self-inflict the removal of yourself from the circle of credibility; or you're joking about it, in which case you'd be in agreement with sanity. Either way...

He may tool around for a bit, gear down or lay low, but MM is too much of a competitor to go quietly into that good night.

Paul Christiansen 4 years, 5 months ago

I clearly think that Mark Mangino is outside the box. But, he certainly took KU Football to a whole new level.

Joe Ross 4 years, 5 months ago

Outside the box is exactly what some programs need. Including Iowa State. If Rhoads' way was working he'd have had them headed in the right direction by now. Seems to me that Rhoads is being thick-skulled about his way when it isnt working.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 4 years, 5 months ago

Doug, you are exactly correct. Mangino was the best coach KU has had in many years. But his personal stuff got in the way, and the druids at KU dumped him.

Football is a tough sport. Sunday school teachers need not apply.

But KU has a serious problem. "Late Night in the Phog"......yeah, Yay for the basketball team.

Where was the pre season party for the football team? Get it????????

Joe Ross 4 years, 5 months ago

His personal stuff got in the way?

Excuse me, but it didnt.

Am I saying he wasnt guilty of some things that resulted from a problem temper? No. What I AM saying is that none of that should have cost him his job. His personal stuff didnt "get in the way"; Perkins made mountains out of mole hills. Everyone who's sane realizes two things: 1. Mangino's behavior was unacceptable, 2. the correction for said offenses could and should have been handled in-house. To suggest otherwise (and Im not saying you are) is supreme idiocy at its finest.

If you want to win at Kansas or anywhere else, you may have to deal with personality problems in coaches. There are innumerable cases where coaches have committed much graver offenses than Mangino and retained their jobs. Perkins behaved as if having a great coach was a luxury, and proceeded to show the error of his thinking by judging Gill as Mangino's better. How in the...???

Some fans have the same problem.

Stephen Johnson 4 years, 5 months ago

Joe - I hear you. He did great things with KU football. If you are a HC at any institution the AD is your boss. If you do not please him, you are gone. Apparently, at ISU Mangino has lost his ability as an offensive coordinator. I don't believe that for a moment. This is a personality thing.

Joe Ross 4 years, 5 months ago

How can I live now? Can I even wake up tomorrow? Maybe Ill just close the curtains and stay in bed all day.


Really now. Is that the best you can do?

Are you bright enough to have anything of substance to contribute, or does this weak kool-aid attempt at an insult represent the desperation of a man unable to offer an actual logical point?

"Son...y'all gotta do better than that" --Lawrence Taylor after sacking Jets QB Ken O' Brien; August 15, 1985.

Glen Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

This coming from the guy who has the same tired comments every day...... It makes me laugh when you so often question people's intelligence on here. Seems to me that someone constantly questioning the brain power of others probably is the one with the pea brain. Or you just weren't loved enough as a child and are now lashing out because of it. Either way, I'm quite sure that I am more than qualified in the "smarts" department. I'm just wondering when the wedding is, that's all.

Joe Ross 4 years, 5 months ago

Yep. Still weak kool-aid. Get that weak tot action outta here!

Harlan Hobbs 4 years, 5 months ago

I join you Tom in wishing Coach Mangino good luck. What he did for the KU program during the Orange Bowl year and the two previous years of bowl game victories cannot be erased or diminished. Also, his work at KSU and OU is well documented, so despite the mixed bag of results in evaluating his career, KU fans should at least give him an ample amount of respect.

Michael Lorraine 4 years, 5 months ago

... and you can watch the football team from the stands. Love Mark and will always be grateful for what he did for KU football but do not want to see him on the sidelines again.

In my lifetime he is easily the best coach KU has ever had.

Joe Ross 4 years, 5 months ago

I suppose by this point in my life I shouldnt be so surprised when I see people rush to judgment, fail to apply critical thinking, and come to conclusions that are based on little if any evidence.

Nowhere has it been implied that Mangino's parting of ways with Rhoads and Iowa State had anything to do with his temperament or lack of coaching ability.

Think, people!

See beyond what seems apparent (and even beyond what is NOT apparent but bias leads you to believe) and open up some vacancy in your mind for reason. What do we know? That there were philosophical differences in how Iowa State's offense should be run. Can anything be inferred? Well, I wont take it as fact, but if intuition leads me to one side or another Im taking Mangino's side. Why? Because Mangino has proven he can take a program out of the trash and make it competitive. Rhoads hasnt. In a disagreement between two men with their resumes, Id bet on the one with a proven track record.

Rhoads is a coach on a seat getting hotter by the minute, in six seasons he has compiled a stellar record of 29-46 (or thereabouts), and he's so intelligent evidently that he wants to stick to his vision of a program. Let me know how that goes after a couple of more seasons if he can survive that long.

I'd be jumping off the rat ship too.

Brett McCabe 4 years, 5 months ago

So, because Todd Reesing won you an Orange Bowl, that makes you the one badger?

Jay Beakum 4 years, 5 months ago

Mangino's resume is padded heavily by surrounding talent. He did not have THAT much to do with KSU's resurrection. That was obviously all Snyder.

Down in Oklahoma you have as much talent as anybody. You get your title shots almost every year.

At KU he was below average (occasionally average) until Reesing and Warriner blew the top off the offense.

He was all right. And he's the best we've had since Glen Mason, but that's not saying much.

David Kemp 4 years, 5 months ago

3 bowl games and first orange bowl since 60s. I believe that qualifies him as better than we have seen at memorial stadium in decades

Aaron Paisley 4 years, 5 months ago

Mangino did basically the same thing Mason did here. Mason's teams only played 11 games instead of 12 so that's one less cupcake game Mason got that Mangino had. Mangino had a losing record against FBS teams and was 20 games under .500 and only won 4 games outside his division at a time the Big 12 north was at its absolute weakest. Mason accomplished what he did with Nebraska winning NC's Colorado winning an NC and KSU winning 10 games a year. Mason's resume at KU is more impressive to me than Mangino's when you actually look at the context of the era's they coached in.

Bryce Landon 4 years, 5 months ago

Actually, it was four bowl games, with a 3-1 record in bowls. Four bowls is more than any other coach at Kansas.

Aaron Paisley 4 years, 5 months ago

Mangino also coached in anbera where over half the teams in the FBS make bowl games every year, not exactly the situation every coach before him had.

Doug Cramer 4 years, 5 months ago

I love KU - but one thing I'm ashamed about are the fans like you that don't appreciate a good football program.

Michael Leiker 4 years, 5 months ago

When people hire other people, they are looking to find someone that fits better than anyone else for the specific job they are hiring for...that's what KU had with Mangino. I don't think anybody who has defended him over the years has said he was the best coach in the history of the world, but he's what it took to get KU over the hump and play consistently good football.

Brett McCabe 4 years, 5 months ago

Actually, read above. Joe and others are comparing him to Saban, Myer and Harbaugh. I think that's when they jump the shark.

Apparently, he's headed to Canton because he was slightly, only slightly, more successful than Glen Mason.

Joe Ross 4 years, 5 months ago

He may not be headed to Canton, but if you remove Glen Mason from the discussion by conceded that Mangino was better (even slightly), then I suppose that makes him the best in our history.

"The 'Nick Saban' of Kansas Football".

Bryan Mohr 4 years, 5 months ago

Rhoads has done nothing in 7 years, and he wants to tell Mangino how to run the offense. Of course that won't work. Mangino rightfully told Rhoads off, and not surprisingly got asked to leave. As for the Mangino haters, your beloved Coach Beaty has nothing but positive things to say about the man. Mangino's downfall and success is that he has no toleration for nonsense... something the American society is ripe with.

Erich Hartmann 4 years, 5 months ago

Let's shift the focus slightly: Beaty was here under Mangino during that nice 3 year bowl run, as was Bowen. Bowen saw Weis's shortcomings.

My opinion is that if the current culture of coaching "today's" kids has shifted from 15-20yrs ago, then these guys (Beaty, Bowen) have inside knowledge of what may/may not work at KU? I like that Rob Likens (O-coord) already arrives proven. Beaty also got to see Kevin Sumlin's operation at aTm, and made a ton of recruiting connections. So I'd like to see Beaty given at least 5 years. Cannot escape football conventional wisdom.

Of course Beaty will say nice things about Mangino...It's his former boss, as well as a page from Bill Self, who never says anything disparaging about any opposing coach. There's just no good that can come from it, and Self knows it. As does Beaty and Bowen.

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