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Friday, July 11, 2014

Perry Ellis impresses at LeBron James camp

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Former NBA coach John Lucas was impressed by Kansas University junior forward Perry Ellis at the LeBron James Skills Academy, Thursday in Las Vegas

“Perry Ellis is playing at another level right now. Doing all the intangibles,” Lucas wrote on Twitter.

“Perry Ellis #12 ... Ballin!” Lucas added in a second tweet, which included a photo of Ellis in his camp jersey.

Jeff Borzello of CBSsports.com was asked on Twitter to name the most improved player at the James camp from a year ago.

“Perry Ellis. And I thought he was very good last year,” Borzello wrote.

Ellis, who was a teammate of coveted NBA free agent James in a camp game Thursday, recently was named No. 3 collegiate power forward in the country by Sporting News.

KU’s Oubre is also at the James camp. “I know you’re here for LeBron news and LeBron news only, but the most impressive guys in the college camp are Sam Dekker (Wisconsin) and Kelly Oubre,” tweeted Zac Jackson, a writer at FOXSportsOhio.com.

Measurements

KU’s Ellis measured 6-foot-8 (in shoes), 222 pounds with a 6-10 wingspan at the James camp. Oubre measured 6-7, 199 with a 7-11⁄2 wingspan. DraftExpress.com writes that “Oubre is almost exactly the same size as Josh Howard, who measured 6-61⁄2 with a 7-2 wingspan and 202-pound frame. Like Howard when he was coming out of Wake Forest, Oubre needs to continue to add weight to his 199-pound frame, but appears to have the frame to make plenty of progress in that area down the road.”

Comments

Len Shaffer 4 years, 9 months ago

Perry was pretty damn good last year. I can't wait to see the new-and-improved Perry.

Rodney Crain 4 years, 9 months ago

Will Perry learn any defense at the camp?

Steve Corder 4 years, 9 months ago

Who is underwriting these "camps" with NBA ties/name association?

Joseph Bullock 4 years, 9 months ago

If Perry wasn't playing defense, I don't think he would be getting all of the accolades, from so many people, in all of these camps!

Brian Mellor 4 years, 9 months ago

It took him the full first year to figure out how to play offense at this level. Seems reasonable that it might take him a year to figure out the other end, too.

Mick Allen 4 years, 9 months ago

I believe Perry's play can be comparable to that of Wayne Simeon. Their talents and limitations are similar. Wayne, as we all remember, was an excellent low post scorer with a nice touch and some range, like Perry. Wayne, like Perry, was at best an average defensive player, because of a lack of speed, lateral quickness and average athleticism. He was not a rim protector because of average jumping ability. I agree with Rodney that Perry must get better on defense and he can become less of a defensive liability by playing better on ball defense through better positioning and working on his slide step, while being always aware of where his help side defense is and if he gets beat off the bounce directing his man towards the help. Let's be realistic, he will never be a lock down defender for the reasons previously noted. However, because of his offensive skill set, like Wayne, he can win his one on one match up by scoring 16 to 20, while his man gets 12 to 14. As we all know, he will not be asked to guard the other team's leading inside scorer. I also think he can average 8 or 9 boards a game, like Wayne.

Trent Rose 4 years, 9 months ago

Perry is much more athletic than Wayne Simeon. Perry's issue on defense (and sometimes on offense) is assertiveness and aggressiveness. If you remember Bill Self saying last year's team was the "nicest team" he ever had. Thomas Robinson and even Simeon had a little edge to them. Perry needs to dial up the intensity to take the next step in his development.

Mick Allen 4 years, 9 months ago

I respectfully disagree Mr. Rose. It is hard to be aggressive and assertive defensively when the man you are guarding is quicker and more athletic. To reiterate Perry's lack of lateral quickness makes it hard to make the slide step to keep his man in front. While increasing his intensity can't hurt, it, of and by itself, can not overcome his physical limitations. Neither Wayne nor Perry play above the rim. While Perry is straight line faster than Wayne, his lack of lateral mobility is comparable. By your theory, all that is needed to be a good defender is to be intense and aggressive. Oh, if only it were that simple. By your theory, Nadir would have been a good defender just by being more intense and aggressive. He, like Perry, lacked lateral quickness. Being a good defender requires a physical component as well as the correct mental approach. I would venture that any NBA scout would tell you that the biggest obstacle Perry will have to overcome to have success in the NBA, will be finding a position he can guard. He does not have the quickness to cover a 3 and is not enough of a rim protector because of his height, average jumping ability and reach to cover a 4. These are all physical limitations that aren't correctable by being "more intense".

Nick Adams 4 years, 9 months ago

Journalism these days- Just let twitter write stories for the paid journalists. Oh, and before you read these tweets that were copied and pasted into this "story", can you answer some "google ad" questions first?

Gerry Butler 4 years, 9 months ago

well to all the negatives in here, like a previous post said obviously SOMEBODY with a little better idea of what its all about that scouts NBA talent other then a guy from CBS SPORTS thinks perry has got what it takes to make it and do well in the NBA. I have a tendency to maybe give a little more serious thought to somebody say like OH JOHN LUCAS then the critcs here, anybody wanna put money down that says perry WILL NOT be a 1st round draft pick when it comes time for him in the NBA? I fully believe perry will be here at KU for the full term 4 years but I guarantee you he is gonna be just fine the rest of his time at KU and then the NBA. I think the reason perry gets dogged so much is because he is not that flassy mind boggling player that just makes you say WOW on the OFFENSIVE or the DEFENSIVE end he just goes out and gets it done ya agreed he is NOT the shut down defensive player for us, but then again WHO IS that's currently on the roster? its far from just perry and again if john lucas thinks he has got it then i'll go with that instead of recliner arm chair coaches that's got it all down right? GO HAWKS

Mick Allen 4 years, 9 months ago

Do you think Lucas would be in any way critical of a player that takes the time and makes the effort to attend his camp which is his livelihood? I would agree that to date we don't have a lock down defender on this year's team. We were a poor defensive team last year and this was with 2 excellent defenders. Why were we a poor defensive team? A lot of that can be attributed to Nadiir and Perry's inability to keep their man in front and this was not solely due to their "lack of assertiveness". Of course Perry will be "fine the rest of his time at KU". He is a talented offensive player. Whether that carries over to the NBA remains to be seen. I certainly do not believe I "got it all down". The concern about Perry's defensive abilities is something even a"recliner arm chair coach" can discern if one has a basic understanding of the game Mr. Butler and it has been a concern for coaches more knowledgable than you or me. Your sarcasm was unnecessary

Joe Ross 4 years, 9 months ago

Off the subject, but reports are that LeBron James will return to Cleveland. If he does, it will mean more pressure on Wiggins to grow up quickly, but he will be helped by LeBron in terms of assertiveness. Wiggins will be helped tremendously.

John Randall 4 years, 9 months ago

Just being realistic, the Cavs have three of the last four #1 overall picks, none of them big men. A team in a hurry, in desperate need of inside presence may look at all those top picks as trade-bait for someone like Kevin Love.

By the end of his rookie contract, I feel confident that Andrew will be the topic of many free agency discussions, and on the road to all-star status. He won't be one of those top picks you never hear about again.

Dirk Medema 4 years, 9 months ago

Anthony Bennet at PF isn't a big man? Short for the NBA, but most PF's are considered big men, even if unproductive big men.

Jack Wilson 4 years, 9 months ago

Ok, Mick just dominated this board. Winner by knockout. Great posts.

It is amusing to me how folks, with their crimson and blue colored glasses firmly affixed, simply dismiss the obvious deficiencies that Ellis displayed defensively. The guy has no anchor; and as Mick points out, his ability to move laterally was quite limited. Just another reason why the "Perry can play the 3" suggestion is laughable.

Rodney Crain 4 years, 9 months ago

I agree with both Mick and Jack, love it Jack crimson and blue colored glasses too funny. It amazes me how quickly they forget the "ole lay" defense Perry played the last two years.

Greg Ledom 4 years, 9 months ago

I'm amused at your amusement that KU fans on a KU message board have their crimson and blue glasses firmly affixed to their respective heads. RCJH!!

David Lara 4 years, 9 months ago

This is ridiculous. Perry is ALL the athlete he needs to be in order to be a good defender. He just needs to focus (yes, also interpreted as intensity) his abilities to the best technique and awareness both to his individual matchup and team positioning. No one has said that intensity is the only component to being a good defender. That's just as idiotic a statement as claiming being a freak athlete is the only component. Did we forget who we are talking about that suddenly we are assuming zero athletic ability as a default? THERE IS NO PLAYER ON THE TEAM WHOSE ATHLETIC ABILITY KEEPS HIM FROM BEING A GOOD DEFENDER. Not one. One thing is for sure: being a good defender is impossible without intensity.

Just to dissect this a bit: player A dribbles the ball past player B. What conclusions can we make? Player A is faster/quicker/more athletic than Player B. I'm sorry, but isn't that the most basic conclusion that any person who has zero knowledge of basketball, sports, athletic ability, you name it... would make? Does that seem like the most observant, well thought out analysis? We should all know that no one will move as quickly in a slide or side step as someone running forward. Player A will always have the advantage regardless of difference in athletic ability (and let's please remember the parameters of the subject; no reason to assume a greater difference in athleticism than exists between any 2 D1 players). In exchange, however, player B has a position advantage. The key is not for player B to be more athletic than player A. It is for player B to not give up his advantage in positioning. You do this by applying the most effective technique in continually making the adjustments to counter the advances of your opponent. It's a chess match that both offense and defense try to manipulate. All offensive moves are designed to make a defender overcompensate or over commit, and a defender has to respond to maintain his advantage and avoid surrendering his position.

It just seems way too simplistically shortsighted and reactionary to say, "well, he obviously is doing everything he can technically, and he clearly can't be any more passionate in his effort and desire. He must just be an inferior athlete." Perhaps we should get HCBS's take on it.

Jack Wilson 4 years, 9 months ago

Coach Self would say that Ellis' poor defense is because he would rather be home and close to his sick daughter ... so be careful on asking coach Self.

You do make some very good points. Angles, anticipation, etc. And you're correct, it is silly to say that one thing and one thing alone causes poor defense with this level of athlete. But do you agree that, in watching both Tharpe and Ellis, they seemed to have difficult times moving laterally? I saw both of them, many times, simply appear to pause or kind of go in slow motion.

Now, whether that is mental -- the anticipation and then reaction; or physical -- the processing is good, but just can't do it; who knows?

Do not discount athleticism -- you seem to suggest that athleticism is static in the discussion. There can be certain athletic movements that one might be deficient. Just like one's vertical leap. Different natural abilities.

On the other hand, I won't discount the "want to" factor at all -- an absolutely necessary component on defense.

Rodney Crain 4 years, 9 months ago

Hope your right Brett, that Perry improves dramatically on defense this year. He will not have a 7 foot shot blocker behind him to bail him out if he gets beat like he has the last two years. He was beat like a drum by the way last year. It was like an open exit door to the basket some games.

Mick Allen 4 years, 9 months ago

Thank you Jack, athleticism is never static. Obviously any kid playing division 1 basketball is athletic. I certainly agree that positioning and playing the correct angle are vital components in playing good defense. A good example of that is Frankamp who compensates for not being as quick as the guard he is defending by over playing his opponent's "strong hand", backing off a step or two if his opponent does not have a consistent jump shot, forcing him into help defense if the first step initiates what appears to be a blow bye etc. Mr.Lara, where did I say that being a great athlete alone is all that is required to be a good defender? No where. Could Wiggens have been a lock down defender playing half ass? Of course not. As an example, let's say Perry and Andrew both play fundamentally sound on ball defense, playing the opponent' strong hand, over playing the dribble to the opponent's right if he is right handed, knowing where the help is, anticipating where the pick or screen is coming from etc., if both players are fundamentally sound in this regard but one of the two gets beat to the basket by dribble penetration, which of the two do you think it would be Mr. Lara? While I agree that no one can move as quickly in a slide step as the dribbler coming straight at him, who recovers more quickly to stop dribble penetration? The better athlete obviously.Your statement that my statement would indicate that I possess no knowledge of basketball, sports or athleticism is petty, immature, mean spirited, unnecessary and without any basis in fact. You assume that both players can stop the advance to maintain their defensive position and advantage. Silly me for assuming the athlete who is quicker laterally can retain that "advantage" more easily. Effort does not always overcome ability. Your banal observation is too simplistic and shortsighted.

Mick Allen 4 years, 9 months ago

Thank you Jack, athleticism is never static. Obviously any kid playing division 1 basketball is athletic. I certainly agree that positioning and playing the correct angle are vital components in playing good defense. A good example of that is Frankamp who compensates for not being as quick as the guard he is defending by over playing his opponent's "strong hand", backing off a step or two if his opponent does not have a consistent jump shot, forcing him into help defense if the first step initiates what appears to be a blow bye etc. Mr.Lara, where did I say that being a great athlete alone is all that is required to be a good defender? No where. Could Wiggens have been a lock down defender playing half ass? Of course not. As an example, let's say Perry and Andrew both play fundamentally sound on ball defense, playing the opponent' strong hand, over playing the dribble to the opponent's right if he is right handed, knowing where the help is, anticipating where the pick or screen is coming from etc., if both players are fundamentally sound in this regard but one of the two gets beat to the basket by dribble penetration, which of the two do you think it would be Mr. Lara? While I agree that no one can move as quickly in a slide step as the dribbler coming straight at him, who recovers more quickly to stop dribble penetration? The better athlete obviously.Your statement that my statement would indicate that I possess no knowledge of basketball, sports or athleticism is petty, immature, mean spirited, unnecessary and without any basis in fact. You assume that both players can stop the advance to maintain their defensive position and advantage. Silly me for assuming the athlete who is quicker laterally can retain that "advantage" more easily. Effort does not always overcome ability. Your banal observation is too simplistic and shortsighted.

Mick Allen 4 years, 9 months ago

Sorry about the redundancy. Didn't know I hit post twice.

Mark Lindrud 4 years, 9 months ago

I would love to see everyone in a room together with these same comments. Each year Perry has improved in one area or the other, and most of it has been in the offensive area. I hope since he is now a junior and saw how putrid we were defensively he is more focused on improving his performance in that area. We do not have the defensive presence in the middle like years past, which I am hoping someone steps up, which remains to be seen. Either way, last year's team was talented, but not mature in many areas so with a year being wiser I hope they returning players improve defensively because scoring typically has not been a problem for us. Perry is a blue collar athlete who is smart and I am certain he will improve and help be a leader defensively.

Rodney Crain 4 years, 9 months ago

Mark no need to adjust your crimson and blue goggles, yours are working great. Perry came to our team as the Wichita all time leading scorer, so he had to learn how to play offense in college ball, which he did at the end of his freshman year. No issue with that last year, but where else did he improve? Defense, no, leadership, not really, rebounding, don't think so. Mick hit it right on the head, Perry has difficulty staying in front of his guy. This effects his defense. He is not a big rebounder either. I am glad he gets invited to these camps but did you see Lucas say anything about his defense? no, not really.

I would have no issue making my comments in a room together. I will be the one without googles by the way.

Mark Lindrud 4 years, 9 months ago

I'm not sure why I need goggles. I never said he was good or great at defense. Shooting has never been an issue for Ellis. I believe he can improve his defense. His career he's had a shot blocker in the middle so he didn't have to work on the defensive end as much. Does he have limitations? Yes, but I do believe he will get better. If my belief that he can get better means I've got goggles, fine. I will not say he will be dominant defensively, but he will be better.

Mick Allen 4 years, 9 months ago

Rodney, let's get together with Mark. I'll remove my goggles for the confab, but keep them close at hand.

Mark Lindrud 4 years, 9 months ago

I assume because I didn't agree wholeheartedly I am getting degraded when I never disagreed with either of you. All I have said is I bet he improves his defense this year, which we need him to.

Mick Allen 4 years, 9 months ago

I agree Mark. No intent to "down grade" you or anyone else. For us to be better Perry needs to improve defensively.

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