Kansas State defeats Kansas, 85-82

  • 8 p.m., Feb. 10, 2014
  • Bramlage Coliseum, Manhattan, KS

Tuesday, February 11, 2014

Doomed: Jayhawks lose at K-State in OT

Kansas forward Perry Ellis (34) and his teammates are led off the court as the Kansas State student section celebrates following the Jayhawks' 85-82 overtime loss to Kansas State on Monday, Feb. 10, 2014 at Bramlage Coliseum.

Kansas forward Perry Ellis (34) and his teammates are led off the court as the Kansas State student section celebrates following the Jayhawks' 85-82 overtime loss to Kansas State on Monday, Feb. 10, 2014 at Bramlage Coliseum.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Bill Self after 85-82 overtime loss at Kansas State

Bill Self after 85-82 overtime loss at Kansas State

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Naadir Tharpe and Perry Ellis on KU's overtime loss at K-State

Naadir Tharpe and Perry Ellis on KU's overtime loss at K-State

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Box score

— Nobody confused Bramlage Coliseum for “Allen Fieldhouse West” on Monday night.

Kansas University’s basketball team, which entered 23-2 in the home of the Kansas State Wildcats, fell to KSU, 85-82, in overtime — a somewhat surprising result since the Jayhawks pounded the Cats by 26 points earlier this year in Lawrence.

A sea of fans stormed the court after Conner Frankamp’s last second three dropped through the hoop, cutting the final margin to three points as the Wildcats snapped a six-game losing streak versus the Jayhawks and won their first game in Bramlage over KU since 2011.

“The crowd was great. It was a great atmosphere. It was a fun game to be part of. In my mind the wrong team won,” KU coach Bill Self said after his fourth loss versus KSU against 22 wins.

“It was an entertaining game, a good college game. I just wish we competed a little harder on defense,” Self added.

He thought the Jayhawks were in good shape entering overtime after storming back from a nine-point deficit with under two minutes to play.

“We played catch-up in overtime. We didn’t play well in overtime,” said Self, whose Jayhawks took the lead, 71-69, on a Tarik Black layup but trailed, 75-73, following a three-pointer by Will Spradling and bucket and foul shot by Marcus Foster. 

KU never regained the lead.

“Give them credit,” Self added. “That can be deflating the way we came back against them but they responded well in overtime. They had guys step up and make some plays.”

The Jayhawks trailed, 68-59, with just 1:53 left, but put on a furious rally that managed to tie the game and force overtime, 69-69.

Andrew Wiggins, who missed a three-pointer that could have tied the game with 42.7 left — in fact it was an air ball — put in a stick-back rebound bucket of his own miss at 6.9 seconds to tie the score at 69. KSU was unable to get off a shot on its final possession of regulation.

A hero in forcing OT was Brannen Greene, who first put in a rebound of a miss to cut the gap to 68-63 then stole the ball and scored again to cut the gap to 68-65 with a workable 1:19 left.

“I thought Brannen did some good things,” Self said. “We shot 3-for-17 (from three) and missed 11 free throws. We’ve got to shoot better than that. Brannen did make some plays late,” he added after Greene’s final line read 10 points and five boards with three steals in 15 minutes.

The Wildcats were led by Marcus Foster, who had 20 points (4 of 5 threes) and two assists in 36 minutes. Spradling, who went 2-2 at home versus KU in his career, had 15 points. He hit three of five threes on a night KSU hit eight of 15.

Perry Ellis led the Jayhawks with 19 points and 11 boards. Wiggins had 16 points and five boards, while Naadir Tharpe had 13 points.

Black had eight points and seven boards on a night he sprained the same right ankle he hurt earlier in the year.

“I’m good, though,” Black said after the game. “Somebody fell on it again. You saw I was able to go back out there. I’m fine.”

Joel Embiid had six points and six boards in 18 minutes. Self said the freshman big man is basically “beat up” and needs some time off. Self said he didn’t know if that meant Embiid would miss any games.

“I don’t know. We’re going to re-evaluate and see if he needs a little rest and a little time off. I don’t know how much time,” Self said, indicating Embiid’s back has been bothering him as well as his knee. “There’s nothing structurally there, but he’s beat up. His body ... it’s taken a toll the last two weeks.”

The Jayhawks fell to 18-6 overall and 9-2 in the Big 12; K-State is 17-7, 7-4.

“We just had a lot of defensive lapses,” said Tharpe. “I felt there was a time we’d get the lead and keep it. They didn’t stop. They (Wildcats) were relentless and played the whole game. We didn’t compete at the end.

“They had second-chance rebounds at will. We didn’t get any stops. They played harder than us at times.”

Noted Ellis: “We felt good and energized going into overtime. We just couldn’t get stops at the end of the second half and overtime. This means a lot to Kansas people. We’ve got to move on now.”

Forward  Jamari Traylor dressed for the game but did not play because of disciplinary reasons.

“He ticked me off,” Self said. “Being irresponsible. I think the world of him, but he needed to sit. I don’t know yet,” Self added, asked if Traylor would miss another game. “I’m still evaluating it.”


Steve Brown 2 months, 1 week ago

In '88 we lost bad game to KState in Allen, we looked DOA. Came back and had a nice run. Caught some breaks no doubt, hey Larry has SMU rolling. Nice!

Seems to me we lost to State in '08. Maybe a good omen.

Can we close out this league championship with so many guys banged up, guys have to play the game the right way! Like your hair is on fire and they have come to rape and pillage your homes. Intensity.

If we make it out of the first weekend, a question for sure, I pray we ram up against WICHITA STATE SHOCKERS in the elite eight. Talk about a money game!


Shane Johnston 2 months, 1 week ago

It wasn't too long ago we would have seasons where we'd win with an average margin of victory of 20 points a game. This team needs to internalize some of the elitism that comes with Kansas basketball. There are five banners hanging in the rafters. Wilt Chamberlain played on this court. The rules of basketball are right inside the door. Every one of these players deserves to be a part of that tradition and share the court with each other. What they should be angry about is having to share the court with K-State and West Virginia and ANYBODY ELSE who laces up opposite them. Even the "good" teams like SDSU and Villanova. I'll give Duke and Florida a pass.


Nick Rushton 2 months, 1 week ago

Top 3 Reasons we lost the game in order of importance: (1) BAD defense (correctable) (2) Missed free throws (correctable) (3) Octagon of Goons' home court advantage (won't be an issue in the tourney)


Margaret Schadler 2 months, 1 week ago

The problem is NOT this team; for a team that is mostly freshmen, they are really good. Does anyone else remember that last year we lost all our starters? I think 4 or 5 the year before, Remember that two years ago, we did not do well recruiting: lost two guys who didn't qualify, had two who could only practice one semester but not play.
OK, I,'m spoiled. I thought that if Calipari could take 5 one and dones and win a championship, so could Self. The reality is that This team is doing really well all things considered: last year both Texas and Ohio state sunk with a boatload of freshmen; the team with the BEST recruiting class is rated 22nd; KU is 7th. Furthermore, this is considered a bumper year for recruits.
So I remind myself that it doesn't matter what 5 are on the floor, none played that much last year. Hudy hasn't had much time with that bunch of bean poles. We played against two bruisers in the middle and a senior dropping in 3s in a building as loud and hostle as ours is friendly. They played like freshmen: young and and out"manned".


Glen Miller 2 months, 1 week ago

  1. Perry Ellis, while a good player is too much finesse and not enough big. He's our starting 4 and he cannot finish at the rim. He looks like a ballerina half the time. I get that he's all about angles and positioning, but that dunk he missed last night was solely missed because he was expecting contact and did not take it hard at the rim. I have seen those types of plays more than once. I know a lot of you will not say it, but man up down there Perry! You've got to be more physical.

  2. Tharpe is a liability on D. He's not big and fast enough to make a difference on that end. It's slowly been getting worse and worse and when he has to chase a guy around like he has lately, he is pretty much ineffective on offense with his shot and starts to let the ball stick in his hands on offense. I know that guys are going to be worn out, in years past we have been able to run our offense through our point because he's been more conditioned than our opponents. Na's fatigue is starting to show.

  3. Embiid has some physical play thrown at him and the injuries and fatigue are showing that he's not quite there yet physically (which he's a 7 foot freshman, I don't expect him to be). Teams with bigger bodies like Baylor and Texas have been his kryptonite this season. He's going to have that type of play thrown his way come tournament time and in those games, I think Black should start.

  4. Our defense is not going to get to that elite level we are used to this season, and that's ok. We need to realize that and sharpen up our offense because we can be elite there if we tighten up a few things. Our defense can be good, but our youth and lack of time in Self's system is limiting us there.

  5. Wiggins has GOT to finish better. Finger rolls and floaters and that crap annoys me so much. Throw it down son.... I guarantee if you flush one on them a time or two, they won't get in your away the next time. Being aggressive isn't just looking for your shot, it's finishing your shot and you've missed out on points this year because you cannot finish half the time.

  6. Selden makes at least one bone head play at the worst possible time too often. Throwing it to no one, or losing his man on defense because he goes under a screen, or shooting a 3 that is highly contested. He can be so good, yet so bad in the times that we can't afford it.

We still are an elite team and we still have a chance at a special season here. I just think that they get a pass because they are young. They are 3/4 of the way into the season now. They know what to expect and whats expected of them. I will no longer give them a pass and I'm sure Bill will not either. They are learning and that's fine, they should always be learning.... it's time to put up or shut up! Get tough, feed the beast and play with reckless abandon. We have got to play like we have nothing to lose. When we play with a free mind, we are unstoppable. This is just the way I see things right now. Rock Chalk and I'm out!!


Ethan Berger 2 months, 1 week ago

Is the season over? Are we the only team in the NCAA that is struggling? I'll try to address some of the concerns.

1) Tharpe is the best point guard on this team. He isn't a good defender, but his offense makes up for that, when he gets it going. Starting Mason over Tharpe might fare a little better on defense but would have huge ramifications on offense.

2) We might only be a sweet 16 team, we might be a 1st round out. We might catch fire and make it all the way. The tourney is about match ups. So let's not start predicting our early exits yet. The 2012 team was a "Sweet 16 team at best." Oooops

  1. The over use of the word heart. This team played with heart. If they didn't play with heart, they would have gotten blown out. This team however didn't play intense. With young teams, that is going to happen a bit. Teams that come out swinging will intimidate them. You get tougher by the lumps you take. The 07/08 team was tough because of the lumps they took. Every team we lost to that played tough had much worse lumps then us.

  2. Embiid has not been the same since that injury and Selden was a no show. Our whole team just preformed bad. It's easy to look at 6 losses and become upset, but remember we do have 18 wins.

  3. It all starts in March. Every game is a teaching opportunity. To act like our players won't learn is an insult to their intelligence. I will take you to the most recent UCONN title team. That team lost a bunch of games. Wasn't even in discussion for possible title team. Heck before the conf tourney, they were a bubble team. They get on a hot streak and then win 11 to end the year. Kemba was not a good defender but was heck of an offense player. This team has a lot of room to grow. It's obvious that their weakness in coming out with intensity every night. That will take care of itself in this year or the next. You don't learn who you are by your victories, you learn through defeat. If we somehow win it all, these loses will seem worth it.


Chris Shaw 2 months, 1 week ago

Tharpe IMO has to find a way to find that balance between Wiggins and Selden's inconsistencies. It's a very tough dynamic to find.

I think the large significant gap between Selden's good play and bad play is a big concern for this team. When Selden is playing well there are no concerns. Even when Wiggins isn't playing well and missing shots...he is still impacting the game in so many ways.

Selden can not say the same when he is playing bad/poorly. This was the Florida game all over for him again. He virtually disappeared this game. If Selden can shrink that gap between his good/bad play that will take the pressure off of Wiggins and Tharpe especially Tharpe.


Terry N Tom Denner 2 months, 1 week ago

One and out Wiggins could transfer to Kentucky where he can just stare at the DOLLAR SIGNS when some NBA Scout comes to watch him. That is about the only time he shows his stuff and out plays himself. Bench him for the remainder of the season.


Jim Stauffer 2 months, 1 week ago

I understand the observation that KSU had more energy than we did. What must be also understood is they played at home and the crowd spurred them on. The reason home and away is greater for this team than other KU teams is the youth.

Wiggins missed how many free throws? Don't try to tell me the atmosphere does not affect these kids. It clearly did. What is confused with lack of energy is actually a tension that prevents free play and movement and causes one to be a step slow. We were one step behind all night.

The key for us is still to hold serve and beat either WVU or OSU on the road. Everything else should be a win.


Michael Leiker 2 months, 1 week ago

This team's ceiling is so low with Wiggins at the 3, it's nice to see some people above coming to grips with the fact that his basketball skills and instincts just simply are not where they need to be to earn 38 minutes at KU. KU has to have another shooter emerge or it's early out in March. Greene should have been in at the 3 early and often last night. Self has got to find a way for Tharpe to get more shots. He's the only player who shoots a reasonable percentage from the field consistently. Wiggins on the wing allows other teams to overplay Tharpe and cover him up. The guy has not shown up in any true contest this team has had all year, save Duke. This team can't afford to have him out there for the highest minutes per game.

Keegan's comments on Wiggins over on the ratings just the same old story. I know defense is important...but his comments basically read, can't shoot, only got 5 boards in 38 minutes, shot 33 percent from the field 50 from the stripe, but played hard, so he's #2 for the game, and a guy who had a double double is 5th. Joke


Jonathan Allison 2 months, 1 week ago

We way outplayed KSU in the first half, but only ended up with a 29-29 tie. If we had made some open looks, we'd have owned them.

After the half I felt like we kinda went away from what was getting us good open looks. Our shooters turned down a lot of wide open shots, and forced Tharpe and Elllis to put up a bunch of tough shots. I felt like that allowed KSU to control the second half until the comeback.

Speaking of Ellis, has he lost all faith in his mid-range jump shot? He's a much better player when he can face up and hit the jumper from 17 feet out and doesn't feel like he has to constantly be moving toward the basket. He's as good as it gets at spinning into the lane for a lay-in or a hook shot, but it would be less predictable if he could get back into the face up jumper.


Jonathan Allison 2 months, 1 week ago

Per usual, we lose a game and all of the "sky is falling" talk cames back, on the Ratings blog we've got the typical Self bashing. Hey! It's not that bad people.

Robert Brown, Suzi and some of the others are good in their assessments. We are still in good shape. We are still in the lead and the team showed some serious heart in the comeback. I put Tharpe right in that mix as well. I continue to be frustrated that Tharpe is our only shot-maker in crunch time. We tried to run some plays for Frankamp and couldn't get him any daylight.

From my vantage point Self is going to be fuming about our defense. We gave them a couple good looks when we were not switching because we went under the screen when we should have gone over. We had a few major defensive breakdowns, but what frustrated me was watching us switch every screen and then K-State immediately exploit the mismatch. Surely Bill Self didn't want Tharpe switching on the a Johnson rolling to the basket. We need to have more discipline defensively and coach will drill that home this week.

Offensively our typical shot-makers were obviously nervous. We missed sooo many wide open looks. Plain and simple, we need Selden and Wiggins to make some open shots. Since nobody could shoot it they just used their perimeter defenders and hounded Ellis on his drives to the hoop and hounded the post entry pass with the backside guard. We have to be able to make them pay for that.

In the second half if was clear that Tharpe recognized that he had to be the shot maker again. And he stepped up to the plate and delivered.

I was very impressed with the furious comeback to force overtime, and still can't fathom how this team was unable to use that momentum and to use KSU's foul trouble to weather away a W in OT.


Robert Brown 2 months, 1 week ago

It is amazing that whenever we lose or even if we win a close game, some of our fans start complaining about how class-less the other team and it's fans are. There always seems to be derogatory remarks made about the opposing coach which is probably why KU fan are tagged as arrogant. Most fans aren't arrogant, but we are tagged nonetheless.

KSU is the only other team in conference undefeated, so it should not be a surprise we lost. I look at the way the team plays, even in wins, and have concluded they are probably too young to make. Final Four run. But, there are still 8-10 more games before the tournament, so that can change. Besides a deep run in the tournament, the conference streak is now important. KU is still in the driver's seat especially if they win all of their home games.

I find myself thinking about who will return next year, and believe that, at most, Wiggins and Embiid will be gone. Players tend to improve significantly when they stay with the program under Bill Self, so next year could better than this year.


Luca Rossi 2 months, 1 week ago

RockkChalkk Thoughts:

1) Benching Traylor cost us the game. Its a coaching move that I know probably had to be made but dang, I really believe we win that game if he is playing. Traylor has shown he can be a rim protector at times. We had no presence inside on the defensive end with Embiid out. Traylor also brings energy which our players were severely lacking out there.

2) This year's team is behind the curve of a typical Bill Self squad at this point in the year. Given the team's youth, it makes sense. Its not what us fans want to see, but its reality. They lack consistency. The bad news: We probably only make it into the sweet 16 playing the way they have been. The good news: If coach gets this team to peak at tournament time, they have a good chance of hanging another banner.

3) Mason: he's due for a big game. I'm anxious to see the FM that played so great against Duke earlier in the year. He looked gunshy against KSU. Several times he was open for a three and didn't take the shot. His defense is slipping. He used to be our best on the ball defender. I'm anxious for this funk to shake off him and see the real Frank Mason back out on the court which I predict will be very soon.

4) We're still alone atop the conference standings and have a few easier games ahead. Lets take care of business, get healthy, and start playing like champions out there. RCJH.


Bryce Landon 2 months, 1 week ago

Oh wait, there's a third positive: 3) All three of our NCAA championship teams suffered at least one loss to Kansas State.


Bryce Landon 2 months, 1 week ago

The only positives about this loss:

1) We are still alone in first place in the Big 12. 2) K-State still has 20 years to even the score against us in their own building.


Jack Jones 2 months, 1 week ago

It seems to me that once again our inexperience resulted in inconsistent play at critical points ~ and we didn't handle the speed and quickness of an opponent well, again. Defensively, we are not a typical Bill Self Kansas University team. We are 3/4 into the season and are still looking for a consistent line-up. Fortunately, our depth ~ as inexperienced as they are ~ has allowed us to win some important games and keep us in the Big 12 Championship race. At this point, I feel like the Championship is probably about a 50-50 proposition given the remaining schedule. In terms of the NCAA tournament, we are probably ranked just about right ~ I agree with the Sweet 16 projection, unless we can begin to play to our talent level, rather than our level of inexperience. The Duke game ~ as long ago as it seems ~ is an indication of who we can be. Oh, and what was that about a "strangle hold" on the Big 12 Championship?? Perhaps a journalistic teaching moment??


Rodney Crain 2 months, 1 week ago

We are a Sweet 16 team at best. Our scoring inconsistency and inability to defend do not bode well for a deep run in the NCAA's. Best seed hope now is a 2.

We have a solid chance for a 10th B12 title but with all the cannibalism in the conference this year I was hoping we could maintain that 2 game cushion going into road games at WV and OK State.

Glad we battled back to get it to OT tonight, but we just do not have the team some days to close out games this year.


Bryan Mohr 2 months, 1 week ago

A great game by the KSU players and coaching staff. In my opinion, a classless demonstration by the KSU fans and university with the f$#k KU chant. I was surprised that ESPN was televising the chant. Not really surprised that the university officials did nothing to stop it - fitting for KSU. Maybe our society doesn't care about profanity anymore? If that is the case, why is Jeff Orr required to apologize for profanity towards Marcus Smart? A public state university should have more class than Jeff Orr.


Billy Derringer 2 months, 1 week ago

i totally agree with the above post.but the truth is Wiggins has been hyped up so much he wont let the truth affect his pride, an pride can doom kids these days. Wiggins is gone an you can put money on that.


Jason Keller 2 months, 1 week ago

I thought we fought hard at the end but overall we had poor energy and that is frustrating for everyone, especially coach. It was a tough game to watch and we're all disappointed. The water cooler will be brutal tomorrow.

I hope no one thinks I'm being sarcastic but do we practice shooting and ball handling in practice? Why can no one in the starting lineup make a shot except Tharpe? Why is Wiggins' handle worse than when he got here? He loses the ball constantly while throwing moves I've seen him do hundreds of times on Youtube.

I'm not suggesting that Bill doesn't know how to coach.. he's forgotten more about the game than I'll ever know but with the recent rule changes, it's apparent to me that the NCAA simply won't allow as many games to be won defensively. You need to be able to score points, simple as that.

Something that occurred to me tonight as I watched the team play is that one key piece of development that happens later in a typical college career is hand strength. These young kids just don't have good hand strength right now. Because of this, they're unable to go strong to the hoop and hang on to rebounds. Embiid was stripped a few times by WILL SPRADLING. If Will Spradling would have tried to strip Withey or T-Rob, he would have went for a ride and never tried it again.

Man I freaking love watching some of the things that he can do but I'm officially on the Wiggins needs to stay bandwagon. He is not ready and it's time to stop kidding ourselves. His length and vertical leap are the ONLY things about him that resemble an NBA guard. His handle is not close and his perimeter shooting is not close. If a guard is not ready but is good enough to get minutes, like Mclemore, you can go to the league and improve from there but honestly after seeing Wiggins dribble the ball, I don't see how he could be effective at the next level at this time. He might get there and disappear like Josh did. He needs to stay one more year, work his but off and then go be the superstar that he can be.


Suzi Marshall 2 months, 1 week ago

The fact that some of the guys gave it their all and wouldn't let the team down, is what I'm so proud of. Wiggins, Ellis, Black and Greene & Frankamp off the bench all showed plenty of heart.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Self make some changes next Saturday vs. TCU. I bet he will be tempted to put Black back in the starting rotation and provide alot more PT for Greene and Frankamp.

All in all, we still could have made it out with a W had Traylor been available. I hope Self sits him for the next game because his actions resulted in a key loss for the team.


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