Advertisement

Temple defeats Kansas, 77-52

  • 6 p.m., Dec. 22, 2014
  • Wells Fargo Center, Philadelpha, PA

Monday, December 22, 2014

Jayhawks ‘exposed’ in miserable loss to Temple

Kansas players leave the court after the Jayhawk's 77-52 loss to the Temple Owls Monday at the Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia, PA. In the foreground from center are Cliff Alexander (2) Kelly Oubre, Jr. (12) and Jamari Traylor (31).

Kansas players leave the court after the Jayhawk's 77-52 loss to the Temple Owls Monday at the Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia, PA. In the foreground from center are Cliff Alexander (2) Kelly Oubre, Jr. (12) and Jamari Traylor (31).

Advertisement

Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Bill Self explains 77-52 rout at hands of unranked Temple.

Bill Self explains 77-52 rout at hands of unranked Temple.

Download podcast

TEMPLE 77, KANSAS 52

Box score

— It had been a glorious 4 1/2 weeks for Kansas University’s basketball team, which won eight straight games following that ugly 32-point loss to Kentucky.

“Back to reality,” KU freshman wing Kelly Oubre Jr., said with a frown after the No. 10-ranked Jayhawks’ pre-Christmas lump of coal — a 77-52 loss to unrated Temple in Wells Fargo Center.

“We see we’ve got a lot of work to do, now,” Oubre added after watching a couple thousand Temple students storm the court after the (8-4) Owls handed the (9-2) Jayhawks their second-worst loss in the 12-year Bill Self era. It trailed only the Kentucky clobbering — Temple led by 30 points down the stretch — and wound up tying a 25-point setback in 2006 at Texas.

“This exposed the things we obviously need to work on. We’re better than we showed. Everybody is motivated to get back after the break, get in the gym and be the best team we can be and improve,” added Oubre, who had nine points and seven boards in 23 minutes.

The Jayhawks, who headed to their respective homes for the holidays after the game — the players will report back to Lawrence for practice Friday night — exited the arena in silence after the lopsided defeat. How bad was it?  It was KU’s first 20-plus point loss to an unranked opponent since a 95-72 decision to Oklahoma on Jan. 19, 1983.

“It was more quiet maybe, more quiet,” forward Perry Ellis (five points, 1-of-10 shooting) said of the locker room scene Monday compared to after the Kentucky game on Nov. 18. “Most of us were so disappointed in ourselves as a team collectively.

“I mean, we really wanted to come out this break with some momentum. Unfortunately it didn’t happen. We have to come back with a new mind-set and go from there,” Ellis added.

The Jayhawks, who hit 32.1 percent of their shots overall and made nine of 15 free throws (to Temple’s 58.3 percent mark; 14-19 from line) trailed 7-0 and 15-5 early and were down by as many as 14 the first half, lagging by 10 at halftime.

“We just came out not ready to play. That was the biggest thing,” sophomore guard Wayne Selden Jr. (six points, 2-of-8 shooting) said. “We knew they were a good team. We just didn’t prepare well as a team. We came out flat and never got on it. They outplayed us. They have really good guards and we didn’t compete.”

KU sliced the deficit to six points and had a chance to cut it to four when Cliff Alexander missed a jumper from the free-throw line with 16:40 to play. Temple proceeded to score four quick points and go on a 26-9 run to up its lead to an insurmountable margin of 23 — 61-38 — at 8:40.

The only thing interesting that happened the rest of the way is a brave KU fan stood and screamed repeatedly “we’re not overrated” as the Temple fans indeed broke into the “overrated chorus” with about seven minutes left.

“If you defend and rebound away from home, you can stay in the game. That’s what I told the guys afterwards. We didn’t do either of those,” Self said after Temple outrebounded KU, 32-29.

“They shot 69 percent the second half, a lot of those are in tight. You can’t do that away from home, can’t let them get easy baskets,” Self added.

Self said he’s looking for more competitiveness and aggressiveness from his Jayhawks next semester.

“We’ve got key players we need to play well early to kind of get us off to a good start,” Self said. “We played so poorly early with ball-handling and aggressiveness going after the ball, just terrible ... it put us in a situation we never really got it back.”

The individual stats, as one might expect, were miserable.

Alexander, who made his first start, had two points and three boards in 17 minutes; Ellis just three boards to go with his off-shooting night in 24 minutes; Svi Mykhailiuk three points off 1-of-7 shooting in 17 minutes; Brannen Greene three points in 14 minutes and Jamari Traylor two points and three boards in 12 minutes.

Frank Mason III had four of KU’s seven threes (7-19) and finished with a career-high 20 points with five turnovers and two assists.

“I would say defensively we didn’t get enough stops. They shot it real well tonight, but it’s defense ... It hurts. It’s the worst feeling, losing,” Ellis said. “It’s over now. There’s nothing we can do about that loss now, just got to try to get back together.”

Miffed at the two losses, Self will not forget the nine victories his team attained first semester.

“We’ve got to get back to work. We haven’t had a terrible non-conference thus far,” he said. “We’re 9-2, played as good a schedule as anybody. We’ve had two bad performances, everything else has been OK. Tonight was bad.

“One thing playing good teams away from home ... you can be exposed. We were exposed again, the same way we’ve been exposed in the past. 

“I hope we come back with renewed vigor and interest level and become a very competitive, aggressive basketball team. It’s hard to make competitive alpha dogs over Christmas (break) in three days. There are a lot of things we can do to become more competitive and aggressive.”

KU will next meet Kent State at 7 p.m., Dec. 30, in Allen.


More news and notes from Kansas at Temple


By the Numbers: Kansas blown out at Temple, 77-52

By the Numbers: Kansas blown out at Temple, 77-52

Comments

Cary Ediger 6 years, 11 months ago

D2, I'll buy you a pony for christmas if you shut off the damn google questions that I randomly click through.

Bob Thompson 6 years, 11 months ago

And I thought that I was only one that randomly clicks through those questions. If anyone is paying any serious advertising money and thinking they are getting real results, they need to have their head examined.

Michael Leiker 6 years, 11 months ago

Guys, they have to fund their coverage somehow, their travel, salaries, etc. don't get paid by magic. Do them a solid and answer the questions, maybe even click on an add or shop at someone who advertises on the site from time to time, it won't kill you.

Glen Miller 6 years, 11 months ago

Would you rather pay to use the site? I didn't think so... stop complaining about it, it's not going away.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 11 months ago

After that game, you post is about the questions? Really?

Layne Pierce 6 years, 11 months ago

We have some good wins already, but that does not change the basic story on this team. They don't do enough on defense to make up for bad shooting, and they turn the ball over too much.

We can see that frankamp was right to leave. If he hadn't we have 11 players playing inconsistently. Now we just have 10.

I said it before, I'll say it again. Either Lucas or Mikkelson, has to start. Mikkelson preferably in a Withey kind of role, and probably SVI, because he can do many things well. Other starters should be Selden, I guess, and Ellis, bring in Oubre and Alexander off the bench. Greene no playing time until he starts playing better D. He must have got burned 10 times tonight. Alexander cannot play the post yet against any real size.

Frank is our only real weapon. Pray he does not get hurt. Any chance we have of getting into the NCAA depends on it. As far as winning the conference. We will have to be so much better and so much tougher in the conference, that it is almost ludicrous.

Look how far we are into the season, and can you honestly say that you have seen this team play intensely for a whole game. Perhaps in the Michigan State game, maybe. Also we don't have depth, so much as a lot of players with one glaring weakness. Ellis cannot score against big men. Selden cannot drive successfully to the basket, even though that was supposed to be the real him. Greene cannot play defense. Oubre makes stupid turnover. Traylor gets into the wrong defensive position, and gets often boxed out on rebounds. Mikkelson looks too slow, Lucas cannot score. Svi tries to do too much, should pass and cut more than he does. Mason has to do too much. And so on and so forth.

And where's the help on defense. How many times did Temple drive to the basket. It was KState all over again.

Exposed is putting it mildly. Unless things start really changing we are looking at a pretender not a contender.

To be a champion you have to come to play every night. This bunch does not do that.

kellerman411 6 years, 11 months ago

This team cannot dribble the ball, pass the ball or catch the ball with consistency and the first thing you go to is defense? I agree that the on ball defense was horrid but this team lost that game because they handled the ball very poorly.

Walter Bridges 6 years, 11 months ago

Mikkelson is not capable of playing in 'a Withey kind of role'. Different body types and different skills. Mikkelson is not going to develop into a talented shot blocker nor is he going to score nearly 14 ppg w/8.5 rebounds.

Jeff made a major leap between his sophomore and junior seasons and was a key factor in getting us to the championship game in 2012. I'm not going to say Mikkelson isn't also capable of making a huge transition but I would think Lucas would be more likely.

Robert Brock 6 years, 11 months ago

KU players: "Meh. We can turn it on whenever we want to."

Walter Bridges 6 years, 11 months ago

Unfortunately, the players seem to believe that also.

Mike Riches 6 years, 11 months ago

On a positive note, KU was finally consistent through both halves of the game...

Rodney Crain 6 years, 11 months ago

Excellent positive out of tonights game!

Suzi Marshall 6 years, 11 months ago

I’m afraid this may not the year for Kansas basketball to shine like the past several years. I’ve been following KU basketball since the 1966 season and rarely did a team just lay down and not compete. We’ve seen this team do it twice. As for the games we’ve won, the Kenpom stats show us to be the 5th luckiest team nationally.

What can be said about a Kansas team that goes 11-37 (30%) with two point shots (at the rim 5-13 - 38%) and allows a team to hit 14-17 (82%) two point shots in the second half? If we lie down and don’t compete against a team like Temple on their home court, what are we going to do in Austin, Ames, Norman, and the rest of the Big 12 away games?

The winner of the Big 12 will probably finish with 4 or 5 losses. This Kansas team could easily finish with a 500 record in conference (9-9). If we end the year 22-12 (9-9 Conference play), we should be able to slip into the NCAA tournament as a 4-6 seed.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 11 months ago

I agree 100% Suzi on every point.

I predict 1-2 losses at home in conference play and 4-5 losses on the road. We will enter the NCAA unranked as a 8th seed or lower with up to 10 losses on our record. We have been very lucky.

There is no help on the way for next season either. This is our team, pathetic as it is.

KY, ok but 32 points was a historic loss but that is some team they have. Temple? I know they got two new players but I don't think they we named Lebron and Kevin Durant. They played well but we did not show up as a team. Embarrassing performance.

Tom Jones 6 years, 11 months ago

This is going to be a fun post to laugh at in March. 8 seed or lower? Pathetic?

Step back from the ledge, Rodney.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 11 months ago

Tom if we do not make a dramatic improvement like we did from nonconf to conf like last year I might be right on spot. What would you call that Temple game? Promising, hopeful?

Walter Bridges 6 years, 11 months ago

Everybody has a right to their position and although I don't see us anywhere below a 6, at least Rodney gave both statistics and facts to back his opinion whereas you just level a personal attack without any basis or facts to back your position.

You can bring the insults (some of which can be fairly funny) but also back up your statement.

Tom Jones 6 years, 11 months ago

Uh....I missed the "personal attack" that I leveled. "Step back from the ledge", if you're unfamiliar with the expression, means "calm down"..."relax". That kind of thing.

Now, I suppose you could stretch laughing at the post to be a "personal attack"...but that is a stretch, indeed.

Rodney's in the "sky is falling" crew. He already knows what he said is ridiculous. Support for this? KU has never been worse than a four seed under Bill Self. This is a young team, but there is zero reason to believe they are gonna collapse to the point where they'll be an 8 seed or worse. Zero. They've beaten four tourney teams and beaten good teams away from AFH.

It's a solid team. Not top 5. Not top ten at the moment, but absolutely top 20.

The point is this: Don't overreact to one game. ;) .

Benz Junque 6 years, 11 months ago

That was one of the most lackadaisical, lethargic, lazy, heartless games I have ever seen by people wearing Kansas uniforms in a very long time. Good teams and good players have more personal pride than to allow themselves to just sit back and let that happen. I have seen some teams come out and be flat but this was a complete lack of interest in playing from the opening horn to the ending horn. THAT is not how Kansas basketball is played.

Sad to see guys go out there and have so little pride in their team and the product they put out there.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 11 months ago

Benz it sure was. I saw one Kansas player on the court Frank Mason. I saw one that could be KO. Perry Ellis has no business being called our best player. He completely disappears when we need him most, and excels when we win by 20.

We are in big trouble if Self cannot get their attention.

No help on the way either.

David Kemp 6 years, 11 months ago

Yeah what's with Ellis. The last 2 games the guy looks like he is on drugs. His shots are flailing and no rebounds or help defense. When he isn't clicking the team is in deep ----.

Allison Steen 6 years, 11 months ago

Except now even when we are winning by 20 he is miserable (Lafayette)

Rodney Crain 6 years, 11 months ago

Hi Allison I would prefer to say disappointed in how some of our fans give Perry a free pass like he does to our opponents on defense.

Walter Bridges 6 years, 11 months ago

Good point about Ellis. This guy just doesn't show up, particularly when matched with a physical player. Ellis has the skills to get off a shot against physically tough and skilled players but it seems that he breaks down in all parts of his offense. There is no excuse for not making layups and dunks without getting fouled.

Ellis or Cauley-Stein??

Jonathan Briles 6 years, 11 months ago

I had a lot to say, but the people who have already commented beat me to it. You really hit what I was thinking though. This team does not resemble the brand of basketball this university has produced. They are weak and have no passion or pride for the game. It is a very sad day when I have to think to not wear any KU gear because I don't want to be associated with the crap that was put out there last night. It is early and might turn around, but its a lot easier to fix a broken play or a poor shot than it is to change an entire teams mentality. They just don't have "IT" and I doubt they will. Frank has it and I thought Selden did, but am starting to think otherwise. Perry does not have one single ounce of "IT" in his body. I'm glad Mason is only a Sophomore because we are going to need his leadership in the program as we try to wash out some of this mentality we have gotten with new recruits. I love these guys and will always respect what they do and the work they put in off the court, but when they lay down like they did tonight it just makes me look forward to the next season. Some of these guys have serious talent and just need a few more guys like Mason to bring it and pull it out of the others.

Benz Junque 6 years, 11 months ago

First ELEVEN YEARS of Bill Self at Kansas? ONE loss by 25+

This weak hearted squad? TWO already and we aren't even halfway through the year. I am fine losing to Kentucky because they are a better team but to watch them just make no effort to win is something entirely different. I hope every member of the team gets grilled by all their friends and relatives over Christmas break about the pathetic effort they put out there. I was embarrassed for them.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 11 months ago

Agreed. I honestly am ok with losing if they play with effort, and focus. Sometimes you just get beat. I think Self is searching with what to do as well.

Ethan Berger 6 years, 11 months ago

Horrible game. Learn from it and move on. Our chemistry is still out of wack on defense. Felt we missed a lot of decent opportunities on offense. I was re watching the 08 championship overtime game. I noticed something about that team. On both offense and defense, they had a very good feel for each other. On defense, they switched with ease. The only good opportunists came from deep shots for Memphis. The past two years our teams have lacked that chemistry. What it looks like from this team is that when they miss shots early, the lose heart. It affects them mentally too much. Frank was the only one who seemed unphased by scoring but now we need him to make the game easier for our other guys. Perry needs to work on the strength of his shot. He seems to always put too much power when he is down low in traffic. Team chemistry will come, but we can't reload every year. Bill isn't that type of coach. I much prefer watching players grow for 3-4 years then 1-2 years. We have some good wins and some ugly losses. Regroup and come back strong.

David Kemp 6 years, 11 months ago

Agree that the OADs with two last year killed player development. Chemistry is totally out of sink evidenced by HCBS trying multiple lineups.

Bryce Landon 6 years, 11 months ago

You forget that it took Larry Brown until February to come up with the right lineup for his 1987-88 Kansas team; and when he did, that team took KU to glory.

David Kemp 6 years, 11 months ago

He had Danny Manning, the best player in the country.

Walter Bridges 6 years, 11 months ago

I think our '85 - '86 team was the best team under Brown but the '88 miracle team had the intangibles...oh yeah, they had Danny Manning also.

Chris Shaw 6 years, 11 months ago

Larry Brown was "Forced" to make lineup changes. Larry Brown kicked off like 3 players, lost 2 more to academic probation, had a guy transfer, and was left with role players and a couple of football players around Danny Manning.

Larry Brown adapted to his team and what they gave him "That Season". He also let the kids play in the National Title by "Running" with OU. Who would have done that?

Bill Self hasn't been forced to do anything. He has pretty good depth with zero center or enforcer, but there is still plenty of players on this squad to make a huge impact. It's just in a different capacity then what the Hi-Lo is use to, but Self still thinks the system with this personnel is gonna work. We shall see.

Andrew Washington 6 years, 11 months ago

This is just pathetic. I can't even believe its Kansas basketball. Just not right!

Ian Emerson 6 years, 11 months ago

Everyone will be singing a different tune when we obliterate Kent state. That's none of my business though.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 11 months ago

Your joking right? Creaming Kent State means nothing.

Ian Emerson 6 years, 11 months ago

Kent State is a good basketball team and its an insult to our basketball team to say that if we win it would mean nothing.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 11 months ago

Nothing to me Ian, try to concentrate when you p-o-s-t a reply. Do you think TCU is the 25th ranked team in the country? Who have they beat? You measure yourself against the best teams.

Ian Emerson 6 years, 11 months ago

Rodney, we disagree in that i see value in every W and i understand that every L can be a learning experience.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 11 months ago

There is not a value in every win if it breeds over confidence. Self even said in his presser when teams win when they shouldn't, like we have this season, they begin to think they do have to put out the kind of effort needed every game to win. They do not come out ready to play mentally. Sound like maybe what happened against Temple, does to me? We have not played a complete game yet, and some of those teams we beat are worse than Kent State. Insult, come on.

Benz Junque 6 years, 11 months ago

We aren't Iowa State. No one here thinks we're awesome for beating mediocre teams.

Ian Emerson 6 years, 11 months ago

Fans like you are spoiled and its embarrassing to the program. Only gaining satisfaction by blowout wins and B12 titles and national championship while never understanding the difficulties of a young team beating 8-3 Kent St.

Benz Junque 6 years, 11 months ago

Give it a rest, blowhard. Good grief. All I am saying is that no one in their right mind is going to say that all is well based off a game against Kent State. Iowa State fans think they are going to win a national title whenever they blow out an RPI #250+ team. That was all I was getting at.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 11 months ago

Ian a program is not a person it cannot be embarrassed. See it does not have feelings like a real person. You are embarrassed, it's ok we all are after that terrible showing. Why is it not ok to boo your team after an effort like that?

Where is it written in stone that you must cheer no matter what?

Ian Emerson 6 years, 11 months ago

Oh im not embarrassed at all i just want everyone to realize that we got trampled by a very good Temple team because we were exhausted, this was the last game before christmas break and our go to scorer was sick. It make just grinds my gears when fans come on after a loss and absolutely blast our team and even the coach.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 11 months ago

They are a 4 loss team. Quit making excuses, Self was asked directly if Perry was still sick and he said no he was fine. Tired, if that is the case the conference schedule is going to kill them.

Your gears must be worn out, since almost everyone on here is blasting that pathetic effort. What about that game was positive? At least Texas and AZ came to play their games they lost, we looked like a high school team playing for the first time. Inexcusable period.

Walter Bridges 6 years, 11 months ago

Ian, I agree w/you far more than I don't but you're wrong here imo. There is no doubt that Kansas fans in general are spoiled but when you see your team playing without energy, pride and all the other positives that are associated with Kansas teams, I don't see what beating Kent State is going to prove anything.

Hell, if we play Kent State like we just did with Temple, we might be the team being obliterated. I can handle the losses. HCBS has already proven that he can put up a lot of Ws in the record books and even losing to teams after we had left everything out on the court. I've been proud of Kansas after they have lost but had given their best shot.

This team, so far (and yes it's still early) has played sustained periods of lackadaisical basketball without any effort on defense and far too much one-on-one play on offense. If it wasn't for the "KANSAS" on their jerseys, I might have mistaken them for some other team. There are common threads that seem to run through all of HCBS teams such as poor free-throw shooting, missing dunks and layups, letting up on the gas pedal on games not quite won and others. The major difference is that on the successful teams, they've thought through these periods. I'm still waiting to see Kansas put together a 40 min. game.

Ian Emerson 6 years, 11 months ago

I agree with everything you said Walter.

Mike Riches 6 years, 11 months ago

Was it ugly? Yes. Embarrassing? Yes. One of the worst losses in Self's tenure? To an unranked opponent? Total lack of effort from almost everyone? Yes, yes, yes!

BUT, it was also the week of Christmas, in a good team's home gym, on short rest, with a team that was probably becoming a little bit cocky with their 9-1 record. No excuses, for sure, for not even showing up, but all reasons why this loss isn't totally surprising.

Anyone who is saying this team has no fight, no will to win, lacks effort or drive or chemistry...they're just looking at two games of the season (though two very bad games indeed). But don't ignore the last five games before Temple. Don't forget about being down 18 against Florida, and clawing back to gain the lead, and then keeping that lead. Don't forget about taking punch after punch in a hostile environment at Georgetown, only to answer every time with their own blows, and beat a team on their own court. Remember the first half of the Utah game, the second half of the Florida game, or several stretches of the Lafayette game, where it looked like this team was majoring in chemistry. Don't ignore beating HOF coaches Donovan and Izzo (Donovan hasn't lost since by the way, Izzo...he's not having his best year.) Don't forget the clutch free throws, the big time threes, and the phenomenal consistency of 40-minute-Mason, as well as all the other positives we've seen this year!

At the end of the day, we are 9-2 against what cbssports.com ranks as the toughest schedule in the nation. I said two months ago I thought this team would lose two games in non-conference; I'm feeling pretty good about that prediction. I've also consistently said they'd win the Big 12 again, and I see no reason to change that now. And if winning an eleventh straight conference championship includes a 30 point loss at Austin or Ames, or even Morgantown or Norman, that might not be that surprising either...

Glen Miller 6 years, 11 months ago

Stop making excuses...... there is no excuse to be beaten like that, play like that or accept that this game was just at a "bad time". These boys signed up to play basketball at Kansas University and what we saw last night was just downright embarrassing and unacceptable. You're going to get everyone's best shot on every night when you play here. Will there be nights that you are little off? Absolutely.... but to just lay down and coast to the end is concerning. They showed no fight and didn't seem to give two you know what's. I will not make excuses for them and neither will Bill Self. You shouldn't either.

Mike Riches 6 years, 11 months ago

Thanks Glen, maybe you missed the part where I said those are not excuses but rather, reasons why I didn't find last night's loss surprising. I totally agree there's no excuse for a Kansas team to lose like that. My general point was simply that there's definitely plenty of positives to pull from the first third of this season. Happy Holidays!

Joe Ross 6 years, 11 months ago

They are excuses. Labeling them as otherwise doesn't change what they are. The fact is we have been bad all season in surrendering big leads--even in wins. Good teams don't find themselves in that position on a regular basis. And "Christmas week" lack of focus only highlights the problem with this team; it doesn't make it more understandable.

Mike Riches 6 years, 11 months ago

I think it's totally understandable that a group of 17-20 year old kids, that are a few hours away from getting on a flight to go see their families, could get distracted by the holiday season, especially when they've won 8 in a row, and have perhaps started to get a little bit cocky. I understand that might happen, even if they do play for one of the most storied programs in NCAA history. I'm certainly not saying that's acceptable, or that I like it. It just doesn't surprise me. It's ok if you don't agree with me. Happy Holidays!

Joe Ross 6 years, 11 months ago

I agree...we're keeping this about basketball and personalities are not a part of the equation. One parting shot on this point and you can have the last word. In all previous years we've played games in the middle of December with guys their age, with much different results. This team is very clearly a departure from the norm, if Kansas is the standard.

Mike Riches 6 years, 11 months ago

Definitely agree with you on that Joe. There are aspects of this team that remind me of past teams, but this is definitely a different team in a lot of ways.

Walter Bridges 6 years, 11 months ago

Joe do you ever proofread before you post..I'm guessing not or you would not have labeled systemic problems that continue to plague KU game after game as "EXCUSES".

This team does lack the ability to play a 40 min. game. Great first half by Kansas but nearly losing to Utah as our defense let the opposing team get into its rhythm while our offense goes through sustained periods of non-scoring.

Great comeback by Kansas against Florida but why did we get so far behind? Because Florida dictated the tempo of the game and forced Kansas to shoot from beyond the arc. HCBS must have showed the team where they were breaking down and our shots started falling....not just 3s but also layups and dunks.

These are not excuses but instead are a trend that is consistently showing up every game. You can even add in our usual poor performance at the free-throw line. If we've got a decent lead, the free throws go in but in pressure situations...not so much.

Joe Ross 6 years, 11 months ago

No one disagrees that there are ongoing problems, Walter. What I called "excuses" was Mike's reasoning about why these problems were understandable (because it was the week of Christmas, we were playing in opponents' home gym, etc.). There is not a proofreading problem here. There is an understanding problem. It resides with you. Merry Christmas.

Walter Bridges 6 years, 11 months ago

Same to you fellow Jayhawk...sincerely wish you and your family a Merry Christmas.

Rob Bedford III 6 years, 11 months ago

KU will not win the Big 12 this year. I predict a third place finish behind Texas and Iowa St.

Benz Junque 6 years, 11 months ago

Show me one other team that thinks it's going to play past the first weekend of the tourney that is losing by 25 points to ANYONE, let alone on the road to a bubble team. Screw that "it's Christmas break" noise. Good teams don't get beat this bad and fail to make any attempt at even competing. This is a team that can play good for periods of time but they are not a good team. Good teams play with pride and intensity and look like they at least CARE when they aren't playing well.

Mike Riches 6 years, 11 months ago

UConn lost last year to Louisville by 33, and that was in early March. I think their season went alright after that. I haven't given up on this team yet.

Walter Bridges 6 years, 11 months ago

Agree w/everything but you still need to ask about the 2nd half of the Utah game, the 1st half of the FL game. Why the continued lapses for periods of time seemingly every game? MSU and the Hoyas were good games for KU but I'm still waiting for 40 min. of solid heads up play by the Kansas Jayhawks.

Mike Riches 6 years, 11 months ago

Totally agree Walter. Our most complete game (though to your point, not 40 minutes complete) so far this year was probably against Rider, immediately after the Kentucky game. It's hard to tell if that was just because it was against sub-par competition, or if it was because our guys were determined to show up following such an embarrassment. Maybe a combination of both. I would expect Kent State to look about the same. UNLV will be a little more telling, but the game I'm really looking forward to is at Baylor, because it's a true road game against a (likely) ranked conference team. We'll need to win games like that to have a good shot at #11...

Mike Riches 6 years, 11 months ago

And I'll be at the Baylor game, so I'm excited about that as well! :)

Michael Leiker 6 years, 11 months ago

Some of the looks I saw on some of the faces yesterday looked to me like, "coach, I'm not really picking up what your laying down anymore." That worries me more than anything. It's a tough job to coach this team, you have a bunch of guys who can see their NBA stock depreciating right in front of their eyes after listening to and trying to do what you've been telling them for a couple of years. Then you have a couple of guys who basically have one foot out the door. Hope Bill becomes resigned to playing the most motivated players. PT is about the only motivational tool he has...they all know they're not really playing for a NC this year...

Jack Wilson 6 years, 11 months ago

Benz said above: "That was one of the most lackadaisical, lethargic, lazy, heartless games I have ever seen by people wearing Kansas uniforms in a very long time."

That sums last night pretty well. This one wasn't about talent, or scheme, or anything else other than "want to", as Roy would say.

But the nice thing is that the problems with last night, largely, are controllable.

The systemic issue that is more concerning is our inability to score at the rim.

John Geissal 6 years, 11 months ago

Self at times throws up a "stinker" to get the players attention. I think he got it tonight!

Glen Miller 6 years, 11 months ago

As a KU fan the Kentucky game was concerning....... but this game was just downright embarrassing and maybe the most insightful one to date. I'm not sure WHAT that was on the floor, but it wasn't effort. It wasn't heart. It wasn't toughness. It wasn't basketball. And it sure as I stand here wasn't a typical Kansas basketball team. I'm sorry, but these guys should be ashamed of the effort displayed in this game. I think they had already checked out for the holidays and were already nestled in their homes with their families. We have ZERO leadership on this team and we are soft as charmin outside of Mason. We will be lucky to finish 4th in the Big 12. I'm sorry, I just can't keep telling myself that Self will "fix" this team. If we have a bad shooting night, we'll lose by 20 every time. When we lose, we lose horribly and look like a bunch of Jr. High kids out there hogging the ball, throwing it all over the place and not getting back on defense. We have no size to speak of or low post game to steady us when we are taking body blows like we have in the past. The margin for error on this team is minimal at best. Even our wins, which some of you say are the type that make Champions (GTFOH), have sometimes looked like we were lost. We are LUCKY to be sitting at 9-2 and we will be even more lucky to finish .500 in the Big 12. The teams in our league are getting better and they are tired of hearing about us. We're going to take everyone's best shot and I'm not sure that this team is going to be able to handle that. I'm a huge supporter of this team and I know we can be better, but I'm not sure if we will be. I've seen things to suggest this season will be our toughest in a while. And until Graham comes back (if he comes back) to help Mason with the point..... I'm very concerned.

Russ McCaig 6 years, 11 months ago

Agree with the general feelings stemming from the above posts....hard to watch...don't mind a loss, if we fought for it....

BUT...what I find amusing in last nights game is the chant from the stands, "Overrated"...then storm the court....IDIOTS.....

My schedule will allow me to attend our remaining games at home against ISU, OU, and Texas... I am scared out of my mind...hope we get things together...

Tom Hanson 6 years, 11 months ago

I also agree with above posts. Regarding this years team I honestly believe that going forward the "one and done" situation plays into the effort. Listening to commentators and other coaches speak about Bill Self and his teams over the years, defensive effort has always been their focus, often leading the country in points allowed. What stood out most in my mind about Wiggins was his defensive effectiveness even if he "disappeared" once in awhile on offense. The others on the floor had that "human eraser" behind them to make up for any mistakes. That includes the prior year with Withey. Veteran players do make a difference, having learned the Bill Self way to play ... and the only one stepping up seems to be Frank.

Fred Davis 6 years, 11 months ago

Like every major program in the one-and-done era so far, there's that one year when it finally catches up to a team - most notably Duke and Kentucky - and this appears to be the year it finally catches up to Self and his Staff....

Losing Embiid might be the most devastating though because I doubt seriously Self and Co. thought he was going to be gone after a year, and now you see how bad this team is lacking when it comes to bigs..... Mickelson is slow and lumbering, and Lucas looks plain overmatched.

But - more importantly, and I don't know how much this has been touched on - while losing players hasn't helped, the bigger issues is losing Danny Manning and Joe Dooley and replacing them with Norm Roberts and Terrance Howard. That's a downgrade no matter how you slice it, and it's shown with the regression of the bigs and the overall toughness of this team. Say what you want, but Joe Dooley was a major reason for the attitude of KU teams when he was here - and I'm sorry, but none of the assistants on this current staff exude even an iota of the attitude Dooley brings to the table. Throw in Danny Manning - who's opening line in living rooms starts with something to the effect of 'one of the greatest college bigs of all time, KU scoring leader, national champ as a 6 seed, #1 pick...' that's a Huge loss.

I know those guys aren't easy to replace, but Self needs to bring a former KU stud back in the fold.... Rod Strickland is at UK, Damon Stoudemire is at Arizona, It would be great to see a Jayhawk on the staff..

Either way, the sky isn't falling by any stretch, but there's work to be done on the court and sideline....

Benz Junque 6 years, 11 months ago

The biggest problem that this team has is that they do not play with a high level of intensity for extended periods of time. This isn't a lack of ability or talent.

In the college game:

Great talent + mediocre intensity = mediocre play

Mediocre talent + great intensity = good play

Too often, KU is in the first group. I can't tell you how sick I am of reading player quotes after the game of "we just didn't come out and compete". Good for you that you realize it. Bad for you that you don't have enough pride to actually change it for more than a few minutes here and there.

Forrest Ranjer 6 years, 11 months ago

Fred, I agree with the coaching comment. I noted the same thing last night. Losing those two coaches were fears I've had for some time. I was worried that we may not have well trained their replacements, and now I wonder. Also, I have never worked for a corporation that had someone leave, go on to fail elsewhere, and then return to high fanfare. The Jayhawks are a business. We need to operate that way.

Forrest Ranjer 6 years, 11 months ago

The positive for last night was that the zebras were not calling the hand checking and bumping at the tops of the keys. The negative was it was the Jayhawks who were trying to hold the Temple guards and bump them after being beaten. We were talking during the game that our family has not seen Jayhawks chasing the ball as much as they were last night.

In another vein, before the game a friend was sharing a moment from her six-year-old daughter's first basketball game about when a little girl with the ball was dribbling down the court and the defender was running next to her with her arms out, practically protecting her on the way to the basket. When we were laughing about the moment, little did we realize we'd be watching the same thing in a college game. I'd swear the Jayhawks were protecting the Temple guards two or three times.

If the refs had been calling the sloppy defense last night, then maybe we could have slowed Temple down by getting them to the line. In retrospect, they may have shot a lower percentage than what they shot from the field in the second half. And maybe we could have taken more shots.

Benz Junque 6 years, 11 months ago

One other thing I have noted that concerns me, has anyone ever seen a team so terrible at finishing at the rim? I hate to question Hudy but it seems that none of our guys are explosive jumpers that can get high enough in the air to get a dunk down without getting blocked. I get it against the length of Kentucky but KU seems to struggle to finish against just about everyone. Maybe too much focus on adding bulk and not enough time spent getting more explosive?!? I don't know. All I know is that I am to the point where I assume that all drives to the rim will end in a blocked shot and I seem to be right more often than wrong.

Michael Bennett 6 years, 11 months ago

I've questioned Hudy before, especially after both our top ranked recruits sprained their ankles over the summer in weight training. I think she's usually really good but I sometimes wonder if she wears the guys down a little too much, especially the young guys (like Embiid).

Justin Carlson 6 years, 11 months ago

Well this has been Frustrating? Lucky? Reality of 1 and dones? Bad or missed recruiting? No Bigs? Hitching our wagon to Ellis? Losing Big recruits because Danny left?? Self to stubborn to change his inside out philosophy? A lot of questions will come out this season and as a major KU fan I am getting awful tired of watching lazy/entitled/selfish/ basketball. You get to play KANSAS! You are playing for the 2nd winningest program in the history of the game on national TV, being spoiled by largest fan base in the nation, you get a free education (if you choose to stay) you are spoiled by Adidas and the University….. and you need motivation to play hard every night? If you can’t bring it every day and night turn your Adidas gear in and transfer your butt to a college that doesn’t mind half assed effort.
There is my rant 100% true…..Another opinion we are really spoiled in the regular season with this program. 10 straight Big 12 titles and maybe the run has come to an end. Let’s look at 6 major programs and compare their success to ours since the 07-08 Championship maybe were due for a season that other programs have more than we realize. No the sky is not falling, the sun will still come up, I will still scream at the TV, and when I wake up I will still love the Jayhawks.

Kansas 2008 37-3 Champs, 2009 27-8 Sweet 16 loss, 2010, 33-3 2nd RD loss (nightmare) 2011 35-3 elite 8 loss VCU (nightmares still), 2012 32-7 loss in championship, 2013 31–6 Sweet 16 loss, 2014 25-10 2nd RD loss (6 straight titles) 1 National Championship

Duke 2008 28-6 2nd RD loss, 2009 30-7 Sweet 16 loss, 2010 30-5 Champs, 2011 32-5 Sweet 16 loss, 2012 27-7 1st RD upset 15 seed, 2013 30-6 Elite 8 loss, 2014 26-9 1st RD upset 14 seed (3 ACC titles) 1 National Championship

Kentucky 2008 18-13 1st RD loss, 2009 22-14 NIT (LOL), 2010 35-3 elite 8 loss, 2011 29-9 Final 4 loss, 2012 38 – 2 Champs, 2013 21-12 NIT (LOL), 2014 29-11 Lost in finals (2 SEC titles) (2 trips to NIT) 1 National Championship

Louisville 2008 27-9 elite 8 loss, 2009 31-6 elite 8 loss, 2010 20-13 1st RD loss, 2011 25-10 1st RD upset to 13 seed, 2012 30-10 Final 4 loss, 2013 35-5 Champs, 2014 31-6 Sweet 16 loss (1 Big East Title) 1 National Championship

UConn 2008 24-9 1st RD upset 13 seed, 2009 31-5 Final 4 loss, 2010 18-16 NIT LOL, 2011 32- 9 Champs, 2012 20-14 loss 1st RD, 2013 20-10 Probation, 2014 32 – 8 Champs (No BIG East titles) (NIT + 1 Year Probation No Postseason) 2 National Championships

North Carolina 2008 36-3 final 4 loss, 2009 34-4 Champs, 2010 20-17 NIT LOL, 2011 29-8 Elite 8 loss, 2012 32-6 Elite 8 loss, 2013 25-11 2nd RD loss, 2014 24-10 2nd RD loss. (4 ACC titles) (NIT) 1 National Championship.

I expect and want better but since our last National championship I still will be wearing Crimson and Blue! ROCK CHALK! MERRY CHRISTMAS HAWK FANS!!

Chris Shaw 6 years, 11 months ago

I would say this has nothing to do with Danny or missing out on recruits. Recruiting has been on the rise the last couple of year. What it boils down to is the same system for different personnel and expecting the players to produce the same result. That's not realistic when you lose Joel Embiid after one year when you thought he was gonna be here 2 or 3 years.

That's fine. That's okay. But IMO you can't expect to run the same system or same sets when that guy leaves. Kansas has had Kaun, Aldrich, Withey, and Embiid and for the first time in 7 or 8 years...Kansas hasn't had an enforcer in the middle. You can't expect to have the same result when you don't have that enforcer in the middle. That's the reality of it all.

Brianna Zaleski 6 years, 11 months ago

Jesus! Calm down...

Good job KU "fans", you ve let Suzi, Hot Rod and Benz whip you into a frenzy because of ONE game. Good grief, I'd LOVE to be spending time w you all during the holidays.

If you "fans" don't think that Bill Self will firmly have these kids attention over the next 2-3 weeks, you haven't paid attn to KU basketball over the last 11 yrs. you've just basked in the glory of the wins and paid NO attn to the process, which is sometimes painful. Remember, it's not where we are in Nov-Dec, it's where we are in Jan-Feb.

9-2 w the 2nd hardest schedule in the nation and all the sudden "this isn't KU basketball". Give me a break.

Whoever is the idiot (prob Hot Rod) who claimed a 9-9 conf record and being an 8 seed going into the tourney, I'll take that bet.

Chris Shaw 6 years, 11 months ago

Not one game! The whole season. He has their attention. Have you seen them?

Suzi Marshall 6 years, 11 months ago

I hope we can pull it together. However, looking at our performance/stats reflecting our poor interior defenses and inability to finish at the rim reminds these are mostly the same guys (sub Alexander for Black) that could not defend against a layup line after Embiid went out last year.

How well did we do against conference teams last year after Embiid's injury? Alexander may have been a great HS player but he's a long way from a high quality D1 player. The addition of Alexander has been a mixed reaction. Did you see Alexander's lack of elevation going up for the pass from Mason? He couldn't reach the ball because only his fingers could get above the rim. Does that reflect his jumping ability or effort? We are 11 games into the season, I hope his defense picks up because Ellis and Greene are hopeless defensive players.

I speculated with a 9-9 record we could still make the tournament but as a 4-6 seed. We can do much better than 9-9 but every game in conference, home/away, will be a fight with EVERY team giving Kansas their best, just like Temple.

Mike Riches 6 years, 11 months ago

I agree Alexander has a long way to go, but in all fairness, the pass from Mason (assuming we're talking about the same play) was pretty quick, and I don't think Cliff was ready for it. The following possession Alexander slammed it with authority (although the play was dead) almost as if to say, No really, I can dunk the ball!

Having said that, Alexander is far from a finished product. I do think he has a lot more power than Black, and his ceiling this year is much higher than Black's was last year (seeing as he's just a freshman). I'll be interested to see if he continues to start, and what kind of minutes he plays. He definitely needs a lot more reps. The next four weeks should be very telling.

Suzi Marshall 6 years, 11 months ago

Mike, I watched that sequence, from the miss through the dunk, a half dozen times. I also replayed a few times all of Alexander's minutes and watched him closely. The pass from Mason was on the mark and Greenberg was critical saying "Alexander needed to go up for that ball." Alexander's defensive play was really bad, except the one block. I literally paused the screen at the apex of Alexander's jump. Is he a poor jumper or was he lackadaisical. He definitely was not caught off-guard because it was a designed play.

If you get a chance watch our (non) defense when Alexander, Greene and Ellis are on the floor at the same time. Temple had absolutely no respect for the Kansas defense.

Mike Riches 6 years, 11 months ago

Fair enough. I haven't watched it as much as you. I just remember real time thinking, that was a pretty quick lob, and wondering if Cliff just left late. I still think Alexander's proven he's more explosive than Black...

Of course I agree with you on the defense, especially Greene and Ellis. To me Greene seems to have brief moments of decent defense, but in general, he seems a step or two behind. That's why I thought he would be out of the rotation by now, but he's kept himself in with his shooting (though not last night.)

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on playing zone...

Rob Bedford III 6 years, 11 months ago

I remember all the talk from people on this board about how much better Cliff was compared to Oakafor.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 11 months ago

Ah Brianna the voice of unrealistic expectations, thank you for righting the ship... Lmao. If you were paying attention, at all, the overall point being made is that this is not your daddy's Oldsmobile anymore, or at least this year. Here let explain, this year we consistently (means game to game); have trouble scoring, playing defense, sustaining big leads, play with effort, take care of the ball, play to the post (our coach prefers inside out play we struggle at that), stay with quick guards, get stops, hold teams to low fg%, have length, rebound, limit other team possessions, and play our game. Our 9-2 record is Fool's Gold, lucky.

Self said it post game it is not realistic to think the 3 practices over the holiday break is going to fix everything. Our next game will be Jan. So your clock is slow.

I said we will lose 5-7 games in conference, that sounds realistic considering our play and our conference. So wrong again, sorry if I sound like a broken record but well you keep making mistakes

Call me names, try to rally the troops, do whatever you think that will change the fact we are the first team in Self's tenure here to lose by 25 twice in a season ever. You can't, because that just happened. See it would be unrealistic to not think we might have a problem here. This does not seem to be like teams we have had in the past, it is not just me, Self has said this, writers, other fans here, and the players have too. It is never as bad as it seems, but it is never as rosie as you think either.

Hot Rod I like it btw thank you for the cool nickname.

Glen Miller 6 years, 11 months ago

Apparently you haven't paid much attention to this season either. We have no size, only one point guard, no leadership, no go-to guy, average defense, horrible offense and we're being out coached (yes, I said that). If you don't think that we're in a bit of trouble, I absolutely question what team you are watching and wonder how rose colored your glasses are. We have some MAJOR glaring problems and anyone who doesn't see that either doesn't know basketball or is just being ignorant. We will still make the tourney and we will still probably win in the first round....... outside of that, I don't expect a whole lot until this team shows me otherwise. Perry Ellis IS NOT our stud and the sooner Self realizes this, the better off he will be.

Benz Junque 6 years, 11 months ago

If Bill Self is capable of having their attention then why didn't he have it before this game? KU this year and last are failing at a rate that is unseen in the Bill Self years so don't lean on the past to prop up your comfort level. KU has struggled for stretches in almost every game they have played this year. They've either come out flat and gotten down big or gone flat and given out huge leads. That's a problem with effort and focus, not with talent.

The "good" news is that I have seen some KU teams with questionable effort levels in some games rebound and succeed. I just think this team has too many holes in it to survive an effort level below "excellent".

Erich Hartmann 6 years, 11 months ago

Nutshell: This is what you get with a young roster, inexperienced, and not well versed in Self's system. The player that bears the brunt of the critique is Perry Ellis. He is a MickeyD level talent in his JUNIOR year in the system.

Do any of you see offensive or defensive chemistry on a consistent basis out of this squad yet? (Answer: NO.)

Self is realizing too-young squads simply cannot execute reliably on both ends of the floor like his past teams. All the stuff we run in the half court sets takes reps, reps, reps, and also real-game-speed reps, reps, reps. Cannot dog on Oubre or Cliff. Can expect a bit more out of sophs Greene, Selden, and Mason. So far only Mason is the alpha dog. Selden needs to become one. And either Oubre or Cliff need to join the party very soon.

Just remember frosh Shady, frosh TRob, first 1.5yrs of Withey, frosh Cole, frosh Morris twins...none of them offerred much in their first seasons (and they were all top50 recruits).

Chris Shaw 6 years, 11 months ago

Ellis is fine. He is what he is. The amount of pressure on Ellis without having a footer or an enforcer in the middle is really tough on Ellis. It's not all his fault. They system is designed to thrive with post play. But that's extremely difficult with two 6'8" guys as your post guys. Ellis played better with a guy like Withey and Embiid on the team. KU has nobody like that this year. KU is trying to play the same way it always has and IMO that's not gonna work "This Year" with "This Squad".

Russ McCaig 6 years, 11 months ago

....I don't see Kentucky complaining about the 'age' thing....

Chris Shaw 6 years, 11 months ago

Kentucky is actually quite a bit more experienced than KU. Poythress going down makes them significantly younger, but UK was starting 2 sophomores, and 2 junior's from last year's championship game squad before Poythress went down. I would say that's quite a bit of "experience" in this day and age.

Roy Scherff 6 years, 11 months ago

I love the University of Kansas, I love Jayhawk BB. This group of Jayhawk ballers doesn't have it and are not going to have it. HCBS speaks of looking for the leaders on this team. Not only does he not have leaders he also doesn't have followers. This bunch looks burned out and there is the major portion of the season to go. Big time talent just going through the motions. Come on hawks, we are better than this. Its time to make the commitment that hasn't been made yet.

Chris Shaw 6 years, 11 months ago

All-right ladies and gents. This game is pretty simple to dissect. I think we are making more of it than it really is. He are my observations of the season through Christmas Break.

1) This team was already on Christmas break. Mason showed up a little bit, but this was the most lethargic team I've seen in the Bill Self era. Not even that 20-30 blowout back in 2004 or 2005 @ Nova when Kansas was in the Top 5 (Maybe even #1) have I seen a team that lethargic. Is that concerning? Not as much IMO as the overall identity of this squad and the stubbornness of Self.

2) I mentioned this last week in relation to Self and Oubre, Svi, and Cliff. He has a process with Freshman. Do I like it? It's his gig and his show, but no I don't. Cliff has been waiting to start all year. Lafayatte would have been a good game because it was at home but Cliff didn't have a good practice.

Really? I mean, I understand these kids have to "Earn It", but come on. What really was the difference between Friday's bad practice and not starting Saturday and a shoot around yesterday or Monday morning and starting against Temple on the road in Philly? IMO that's horrible timing to finally give this kid his chance. This game is more than basketball. It's psychology, it's mentally setting examples, it's human behavior, it's understanding the actual player and their personality and what drives them. Not every player should just be plugged into a system with the same number and expect to produce the same result.

3) Look, I understand that Bill Self and the Kansas program is the "Hi-Lo". I know it, you know it, the Kansas fan base knows it, the announcers know it, the opposition knows it, and the entire freaking country knows it. Kansas is gonna pound the ball into the paint and Kansas is gonna through 6'8 (maybe a shy smaller) Perry Ellis. WE ALL KNOW IT!

The only problem is that Kansas has Cliff Alexander (He's gonna be really good just not there yet) and Perry Ellis who are PF's and 6'8". That's not gonna work against longer and bigger teams. Guys like Perry, Cliff, Twins, T-Rob etc work really well when their are guys like Embiid, Withey, Aldrich, and etc on the team who establish a presence in the middle. This year's team does not have that.

cont'd

Chris Shaw 6 years, 11 months ago

4)From now on I am gonna refer to this squad as the "LO-HI" squad because based on the personnel that it has...it should be working to its strength, not its weakness and doing most things opposite of the "Hi-Lo". Kansas has some of the biggest guards, best shooters, and overall best 2/3 wing men in the country. Why not utilize them in a manner that brings out their strengths. Give them the green light, build their confidence, work the offense around them, put them in a position they haven't been in yet like on the half post.

Oubre (6'7"), Svi (6'7"), Greene (6'8"), Selden (6'5/6'6 but in a mans body) all are huge guards. Every opposition Kansas faces this year, Kansas has an advantage at this position. Why not try and get Selden and Oubre on the half post. Why not play 3 of the 4 together and just let them play. Will Kansas probably lose some game? Yes, but at least they would be finding some consistency or rhythm or something.

Traylor and Ellis do not play well together. Mason and Selden do not play well together. These combinations and running through the post with "This squad" is not bringing out this squads true talents.

I love Mason, absolutely love the kid, but there has to be away to get Greene (Your best shooter), Svi (Your most potential), and Oubre (Your best driver outside of Mason) into the game. Self has always said you have to bring "Talent" into your program. Well, it's not the normal post talent Kansas normally has, but this is probably the best 2/3 "Wing" talent Kansas has ever had in terms of size and potential. USE IT! Build around it.

Tom Jones 6 years, 11 months ago

You should tell Bill to utilize Greene's ball handling expertise more.

Chris Shaw 6 years, 11 months ago

I just want Self to have some balls and do something out of the box with this squad. I would love to make Greene a point forward. Maybe it's Svi? Maybe it's Selden? Very unlikely with Selden because he hasn't convinced he can do anything except not make the ball stick. Brady Morninstar was quicker and had more athletic ability than Selden (I am sure that will cause a storm with those comments). The whole Selden experiment is mind boggling to me.

Chris Shaw 6 years, 11 months ago

Everybody knows Kentucky is gonna win the National Championship this year, right (It's okay, a little sarcasm but a little truth in that statement as well)?

I understand an 11th straight Big 12 title is on the line, but who cares? I could give two bleeps about 11 straight Big 12 titles. Winning the Big 12 is a local and regional type perspective and attitude.

Winning the National Title and building towards that is a whole different mindset. If Kentucky is the standard and favorite, why wouldn't you build your team to play to that level? Kansas already got throttled (Granted it was the 2nd game with the 11th youngest team in the country) against Kentucky, but why not set the platform and goal to have the opportunity to play them again for all the marbles on the biggest stage.

Kansas can not match up with Kentucky's "Bigs". I don't think Kansas has ever been able to say that against anyone in Self's tenure, but this year with this team, unfortunately that is the truth.

However, there is a bright side...I do feel in the long run that Kansas has more "Talent" at the PG, 2, 3 (Wings) than Kentucky. Why not build your team around your strength and shoot for that goal?

Fred Whitehead Jr. 6 years, 11 months ago

I guess I can throw some more "salt" into this debate. While Kansas was, as usual, advanced as conquering heros in the pre-season garble in this newsrag, the truth comes out, that we are not as great as the Journal-World would have it be. Typical

And we should note that also this last week TCU, West Virginia, Oklahoma, and Baylor all won games, some against "rated" teams and all conference wins.

This newspaper has the annoying habit of elevating the current crop of "one year wonders" to the Kansas team, and when these NBA wannabes fall short, well, one has to wonder.

I am not sure just how the University fits into all this, as they are charged with using University funds to educate students, not to form a "professional style" ball team.

Tom Jones 6 years, 11 months ago

Can someone translate this for me? Is Fred mad at the LJW for...reporting on the team? I assume he knows that the LJW doesn't actually create the rankings, but...not entirely sure.

Rich Hetherington 6 years, 11 months ago

I'll give you all that last night's game was one of the hardest to watch in all my years as a fan, AND that coupled with the loss to Kentucky, probably 2 of the top 4 hardest to watch, AND that despite beating some decent teams, we haven't played well for both halves of ANY game yet...

BUT, I still have faith in Bill Self and this team. I've watched for enough years to know that even when things look bleak, that's when his teams usually turn the corner. We've already built a decent resume, and with the B12 so strong this year, that will only get better. Sure we're likely to lose a few conference games this year, but I expect Kansas to be right in the mix down the home stretch. Beating a highly ranked Utah team, as well as good programs like Florida, Georgetown and Michigan St. should not be over-looked. This team will gel in the next couple months and make for an exciting finish to the season, of that you can almost be certain!

Aaron Paisley 6 years, 11 months ago

Missing out on Myles Turner is killing this team right now. Cliff will be fine, he's just the freshman wall, he's not the first to do that and won't be the last. He's thinking instead of playing and when he gets back to catching the ball and just attacking the basket, he'll be fine.

Mason needs to become the leader of this team because the current leader doesn't have the attitude that translates to winning championships. Perry Ellis is just too laid back and soft spoken to be an effective on court leader. His attitude frequently comes across as not interested or not caring and that doesn't work in sports. Mason has received a lot of criticism for his on court play, but it's all rooted in him being too aggressive and not deferring enough when he drives. That aggressiveness is the mentality this team needs to have a chance to reach the Final Four, and yes this team has the talent to do so. Just like with Sherron Collins and Tyshawn Taylor, the decision making may not always be best, but their effort was never questioned and that's why those teams were never blown out and always went down swinging. Frank Mason has the alpha dog mind set this team is missing, he needs to step up and become the undisputed alpha dog of this team and we'll see the blow outs end.

Tom Jones 6 years, 11 months ago

Actually, Sherron's teams DID get blown out several times. A couple of times were in the 08-09 season, when KU ended up a 3 seed. This year projects to be that kind of a year, with KU looking like a 3/4 seed 90% of the time.

Nor were "Tyshawn's teams" immune to the blowout. Go look at the game logs if your memory fails.

They're college kids, and sometimes......these things happen. Lid on the basket...other team getting every prayer answered...throw in some lack of concentration and yes, lack of aggressiveness and you can get a blowout. Even when it's a GOOD team.

The Chicken Little crowd makes for humorous reading, though, so I'd like to ask all of you to please...keep it up. Don't get comfy when KU starts piling up wins again. Find the little things...the missed crunch time FT's...someone smiling when KU's losing...these are the gems. Exaggerate their meaning and importance and remind everyone how awful and pathetic this team is. Stick to your guns.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 11 months ago

I agree on Turner 100%. It is what has me concerned about next years recruits too. We might get one or two but if all we get is 6'8 guys we are in the same boat, no length and too many wings. It is much harder to play inside out game without at least one 6'10 guy.

Walter Bridges 6 years, 11 months ago

Agree Aaron, after Embiid left, losing out on Turner may be the single most important event this past off-season.

Chris Shaw 6 years, 11 months ago

Frank Mason, I love your game, but you need to do 1 of 2 things till Feb 1st or the next 5 weeks.

1) You need to convince Bill Self to put you on loan to Pitt State, Emporia State, Washburn or Fort Hays State so you can go down and dominate DII all the while staying in shape. Staying in shape is the key ingredient here.

2) Convince Self and staff to put you on the next plane down to St. Thomas in the caribbean for the next 5 weeks so you can avoid the harsh winter January Kansas usually has. You would be required to run every morning along the beach so you can stay in shape.

Why are you saying this, Chris? Frank, I don't want you gone man. You're the engine to this squad and quite frankly the highlight of the season, but if you aren't playing point guard for the next 5 weeks...desperate times call for desperate measures and players step up when things like that happen.

Kansas needs to quit relying on Mason so much and find a way to get Oubre, SvI, and Greene huge minutes together so they can develop. Tick/Tock. Will it be ugly? Quite sure it will be, but then again, wasn't that what the first 11 games and first 27 percent of the season was for? IMO, KU won some games against "Big Names", but what did Kansas gain from it? Nothing! Sure, they learned what a close game felt like. But have the players really defined any roles on this squad outside of mason?

They still have zero identity, zero leader and IMO nothing to show for because the Freshmen still haven't progressed. Is that their fault? You have to get minutes, have to play through mistakes, and find that "Speed" of the college game that makes them comfortable.

Walter Bridges 6 years, 11 months ago

Hoping all my Jayhawk brothers a fantastic Christmas holiday and STAY safe!

Rodney Crain 6 years, 11 months ago

Hopes Santa brings you something fun to play with sir! :) Happy Holidays1

Commenting has been disabled for this item.