Wednesday, September 18, 2013

Top basketball recruits tease possible 2-for-1 at KU


College basketball recruiting notebook. ...

It’s starting to look as if Kansas University is the top choice of JaQuan Lyle, a 6-foot-5 senior guard from Huntington (W.Va.) Prep, who recently decommitted from Louisville. Lyle, who is ranked No. 22 nationally by, this week shocked the recruiting world by posting a rendering of himself and buddy/KU target Cliff Alexander on Lyle’s “jmamba5” Instagram account.

In the photo mashup, which is labeled “Dynamic Duo,” the two players are superimposed over an interior shot of Allen Fieldhouse with the Jayhawk logo between them.

No. 4-ranked Alexander, 6-8 from Chicago Curie High, has a list of KU, DePaul, Arizona, Illinois, Kentucky, Louisville, Memphis and Michigan State. He will visit KU for the Oct. 4 Late Night in the Phog. Lyle, however, will likely visit on another date, reports. Lyle will visit UConn this weekend and Memphis at a yet-to-be-determined date.

KU, which has several guards on its recruiting list, has two scholarships to give (senior Tarik Black and certain one-and-done Andrew Wiggins), with more spots available if anybody else turns pro or leaves the program.

“What y’all think of this? Me & @elceo_spcliff (Alexander’s Instagram name),” Lyle wrote next to the image on Instagram.

“Cliff has been telling me that him and JaQuan Lyle are going to play together,” Alexander’s mother, Latillia, told “That’s the reason JaQuan Lyle decommitted. I’m thinking wherever Cliff goes, JaQuan Lyle is going to go.”

Visiting Blackmon: KU coach Bill Self on Tuesday hustled out of morning Boot Camp in time for an afternoon meeting with James Blackmon Jr., a 6-foot-3 senior guard from Marion (Ind.) High School. reported that Self offered Blackmon a scholarship. Blackmon,’s No. 23-rated player who recently decommitted from Indiana, met with Kentucky coach John Calipari on Monday. He’s also considering Louisville, Michigan and Michigan State.

Big men like KU:’s Evan Daniels had an encouraging Twitter post regarding KU recruiting on Tuesday.

“The word behind the scene is Kansas currently leads for the top 3 big men (Okafor, Turner & Alexander) in the 2014 class. Think about that,” Daniels wrote.

Jahlil Okafor, a 6-11 senior from Chicago Whitney Young, who is ranked No. 1 by, has visited Baylor and Kentucky. He will visit Arizona on Oct. 11, KU on Oct. 18 and Duke on Oct. 25. He also has Illinois, Michigan State and Ohio State on his list.

No. 6-rated Myles Turner, 6-11 senior from Trinity High in Euless (Texas), also is considering Duke, Kentucky, Louisville, Arizona, Ohio State, Texas and Oklahoma State. Turner had planned on attending Late Night in the Phog, but recently accepted an invitation to attend the USA Developmental National Team mini-camp on Oct. 4-7. Thus he may have to reschedule the KU visit.

“I can’t wait to get there. It’s their Midnight Madness that night and I’ve heard a lot of great things about the visits there. I know that the atmosphere will be amazing. I’m just looking forward to seeing all that they have to offer. I’m excited,” Turner told USA Today in his Aug. 22 blog.

Top juniors sought by KU: Self last Thursday stopped by Las Vegas’ Bishop Gorman High to check in on a pair of top juniors — No. 2-rated Stephen Zimmerman, a 7-foot center. and No. 21 Chase Jeter, a 6-9 forward. Zimmerman is considering KU, Kentucky, Louisville, Indiana, Michigan, Arizona, UNLV, Baylor, USC and others. Jeter is looking at KU, UCLA, Michigan, Arizona, Vanderbilt, UNLV, Duke, Minnesota, USC, North Carolina and others.

Lack of class by some coaches: No. 58-rated Alex Robinson, a 6-1 senior from Timberview High in Arlington, Texas, has committed to Texas A&M.;’s Gary Parrish writes that some college recruiters used the fact A&M; coach Billy Kennedy is battling Parkinson’s disease against him in recruiting.

“They actually did (use Kennedy’s Parkinson’s diagnosis against Texas A&M;),” Robinson told Parrish. “But I just kinda brushed it off like, ‘Hey, that’s part of recruiting. (The other coaches are just) trying to get me to their school.’”

Robinson would not name the coaches who used the negative recruiting tactic.


moonlightschlademan 7 years, 7 months ago

Nice to feel the love from recruits.
It is one thing to schedule a visit.
Adding the instagram photo certainly takes it up a notch.

(I am presuming that he did not make a montage of photos with other mascots).

KUFan90 7 years, 7 months ago

Lyle and Alexander...come on down!!!

MinnesotaJay 7 years, 7 months ago

Would Alexander (#4) and Lyle (#22) be a welcome twosome in Lawrence? YES!!! And HELL, YES!!!

REHawk 7 years, 7 months ago

Amazing, how the acquisition of Wiggins and the other splendid recruits for this season has created a domino effect among interest of future recruits. Mr. Shakespeare would frame a superlative line re such chain reactions.

hawk316 7 years, 7 months ago

In addition, it doesn't hurt that Coach Self brought Jerrance Howard on board. Bill Self continues to make great choices in both recruiting and in filling coaching vacancies.

phoggydrive 7 years, 7 months ago

Would anybody be surprised if the negative recruiting coach was anybody other than Scott Drew?

Tony Bandle 7 years, 7 months ago

How about a guy whose last name begins with "C" and ends in "I"?!!

phoggydrive 7 years, 7 months ago

Kentucky didn't recruit him, so this one has Drew written all over it!

CapitolJayhawk 7 years, 7 months ago

Cool your jets, Baylor wasn't involved -

Amazing the amount of groupthink when it comes to the way we view other coaches absent any actual information or, you know, facts.

Jack Jones 7 years, 7 months ago

You make an interesting, and far too often, accurate observation. It's part of the whole social media mania ~ in my opinion.

Benz Junque 7 years, 7 months ago

There is, you know, FACTS, that led the original poster to state simply that he wouldn't be surprised if Drew was involved. Drew has been labeled by members of the coaching community as a coach that consistently used negative recruiting tactics and outright lies to attempt to recruit kids. Period. Drew's name was the first that popped into my head when I heard this as well.

And just because Baylor isn't listed on that group of teams doesn't mean that Baylor did not recruit him. A) that is just his final list and B) ESPN is notoriously inaccurate with those lists. They do not work hard to keep those up to date. AT ALL.

Until you provide an article with a specific name in it, I still wouldn't be surprised to find out Drew was the coach or a coach that used this tactic.

NorthStarHawk 7 years, 7 months ago

Why is it, every time I see "Baylor" on these top recruits' lists, it makes me throw up in my mouth a bit. Just thinking of Drew and his program makes me feel dirty and want to head toward the showers with x-strength anti-bacterial soap.

Scott Smetana 7 years, 7 months ago

Baylor HAS to be offering money. It's the only logical reason top talent goes there.

Michael Bratisax 7 years, 7 months ago

I think Baylor has made it into the NCAA tournament a total of three times under Drew. His highly sought after recruits seem to fall out of the lottery to mid first or second round picks.

I also cannot see why any top player would go to Baylor... at least to the men's team.

RJ King 7 years, 7 months ago

NBA draft selection and approximate Rivals rankings out of HS would back up your theory. Udoh likely drafted high on potential, Jones and Miller falling a bit after college performance. Players drafted same or higher than their ranking under Self, except for Arthur and Selby. (Comparisons are slightly skewed because draft consists of mixed classes + foreign players.)


2010 6 UNR Ekpe Udoh

2012 28 9 Perry Jones

2012 38 7 Quincy Miller


2012 5 31 Thomas Robinson

2013 7 34 Ben McLemore

2010 11 30 Cole Aldrich

2010 12 8 Xavier Henry

2007 13 8 Julian Wright

2008 13 13 Brandon Rush

2011 13 49 Markieff Morris

2011 14 29 Marcus Morris

2008 27 16 Darrell Arthur

2011 49 1 Josh Selby

Michael Bratisax 7 years, 7 months ago

BayHawkaholic...that was impressive. Even though Arthur did drop, I remember disinformation before the draft being the largest factor in his drop as his play on the court lived up to the hype. Selby was the one recruit that I thought hurt Self in recruiting and McLemore took care of any doubt that might have lingered.

Playing at Kansas is the best way to get drafted if you put in the work and stay till you're ready.

Benz Junque 7 years, 7 months ago

Class ranking and Draft order have NOTHING to do with each other as the NBA Draft has players from multiple classes in it as well as international players. You could be #1 in your class and be the first player in your class drafted in the NBA Draft but have an intetrnational player or player from a different class picked ahead of you and it would look like you "dropped".

While I am generally OK with anything that makes Scott Drew look bad, this doesn't fly.

Michael Bratisax 7 years, 7 months ago

I know that you and I don't agree on this subject but here it is a case/example of what I'm talking about.

Nerlens Noel being drafted at #6 despite his injury pretty much wiping out his college career. Noel has that so-called "POTENTIAL" and that is why he was drafted so early.

I think on most other issues, I find myself agreeing with you but certainly not in this case.

But to be truthful, that wasn't my point. Basically, I was just trying to say that in general, going to Baylor has not helped a lot of players who either left early or graduated.

HCBS on the other hand has helped many players get into the draft earlier than what other would have been able to do. I also think that is partially why we have had so many players get drafted who don't do as well as people hoped for.

If I still didn't get my main point across, just blame it on my lack of technical writing skills.

Michael Pannacciulli 7 years, 7 months ago

These guys who be awesome snags for Bill and co. I believe Jerrance is the lead recruiter for them right? Man I would love to see them in Jayhawk uniforms next year!

TXBBall55 7 years, 7 months ago

I thought KU had two for sure (three with Wiggins), but I guess Wesley isn't on scholarship (which would give them 14...). I just wonder, who isn't coming back? It would seem KU is in good position for a number of guys: Alexander, Lyle, Turner, Oubre (getting those four guys would mean two would have to leave). Plus, there are others such as Okafor that may be favoring KU (though I don't believe it for a second).

I just don't understand this class. I hope we don't tell a good 3-4 year guy (like Connor or Brannen) that he can't come back because we want a OAD. It would make me puke to see Connor tear it up at WSU for three years because we wanted an OAD to come in and score 12 +/- points for a year.

ParisHawk 7 years, 7 months ago

" I hope we don't tell a good 3-4 year guy (like Connor or Brannen) that he can't come back because we want a OAD."

Definitely. It is weird that we're getting so much interest from recruits when there's a logjam for playing time - but who's complaining?

It must be like restaurants: the busier they are the more you want to eat there.

I bet Coach Self has said to the top guys: "I definitely want you, but if another guy about as good commits before you do the place will be taken. As long as the spot is open, it's yours." How can he do otherwise when all the recruits have 6 schools on their lists?

ParisHawk 7 years, 7 months ago

I don't feel attacked. So it's only true in Europe?

Andy Godwin 7 years, 7 months ago

I hope Self does not fully adopt the Calipari style of recruiting. The best programs not only have talented, but also experienced players. It is important to have stability and players who have been around the program so the learning curve each season is less. It would be a shame to become a OAD factory. KU should embrace players who actually want to get a four year degree while playing basketball for the University. I know I am old fashion, but I hope KU athletics supports the concept of student/athlete first and not OAD athlete/student who will attend a semester of school.

Hawk8086 7 years, 7 months ago

I agree and I don't think that will happen. A good mix of OAD talent, very good players, and role players make for a very good team......especially with Self as coach. That said, all coaches, Self included, recruit the very best talent that they can.

Adam Miller 7 years, 7 months ago

I think we're looking at the whole thing in the context of "now"... when Self was first recruiting everyone (besides Wiggins), none of them were thought to be OADs. Embiid wasn't even ranked and was thought to be popping in -- I want to say -- first the 40's, then 30's, then better than that. Selden was thought of as a 2 year, along with Greene (who still gets barely a mention, even though the dude appears to rain 3s at will) and plenty of people moaned about Mason not being skilled enough to even come here. Now some apparently think he's going to steal away time from Tharpe.

To me, we kind of hit a royal flush with this class... as the recruiting progressed and the invitational games were played, we saw everyones' ranks crawl further and further up. So personally, the whole thing isn't indicative of a shift to the "Calipari" scheme or any other recruiting system... simply some good luck and Self truly pulling some seriously undervalued talent and that talent putting on one HECK of show.

Jack Wilson 7 years, 7 months ago

During the Wiggins lead up and commitment, what has been stated by TXBBall55, Paris, and akgjenkintown above is pretty much what I had expressed.

The difficulty here is the "program" thing vs. the "pit stop" thing. Are we a program, or a pit stop? What do we want?

Ron Prichard 7 years, 7 months ago

When you think about it, we really are both. We are a "program" that boasts a rich history, dominant teams, hall of fame coaches, all american players, and national championships. For certain players, we may also be a pit stop in the fact that a player may only be here one year. However, the "program" that has been developed means that even those players that were only here one or two years feel like this is their home. Its a family and they are always welcome. I think that environment was fostered when the twins were here and then with TRobb. That is what makes KU a "program." It is a place that is bigger than the players. It is the history of winning. It is the personification of college basketball. KU is that program.

That said, I think that feeling can be eroded if the coaches and players aren't careful. Still, one and dones are part of the game, and I do think KU can maintain program status as long as the coaches are careful to maintain that balance between OAD's and long term players. I think Self is keenly aware of that balance. However, I think he is aware of it from the coaching and winning standpoint, which is why I have faith in him to continue to maintain this program as one we can be proud of for years to come.

Mike Riches 7 years, 7 months ago

We want to win championships. And in recent years we've seen championships won by schools with very different recruiting strategies. At the end of the day, it's about doing the best we can with the talent we have, as it is with any school. Self has done phenomenally well with "less-talented" rosters and has won a NC with a more talented group. So OAD guys, 3-4 year guys, role seems that whatever Self has on his roster, KU's in the conversation almost every March. I will say this, I'm more excited for this year to start than I have been in awhile!

Benz Junque 7 years, 7 months ago

What do we want?

  • Wins
  • Conference Titles
  • Final Four Appearances
  • National Titles

There is no magic formula. There is no proof that a nice balance between OADs, good players and role players wins. KU has oone title in the last 25 seasons. Perhaps an influx of higher level talent is needed to get over the hump.

The way I see it is that you really can never have too many good players. It's just a matter of having the RIGHT elite players that can play together that wins titles.

And Self isn't going to take a scholarship away from players already here. He is going to tell the elite recruits that first come, first serve. I would be surprised if Lyle and Alexander don't commit right after Late Night to make sure they get to come here. Bring 'em on, Coach Self.

Joe Baker 7 years, 7 months ago

TX- I thought Wesley was on a scholarship. However, if you review the roster, there are 13, without Wesley.

Mason Selden AW3 Tharpe Greene Embiid Wigs CF Black Traylor Lucas Ellis Mickelson

Michael Bratisax 7 years, 7 months ago

I wouldn't mind seeing Wesley putting some of his skills - which he has - together and make some real contributions this year.

I'm not sure he would even make it onto the court with so much talent ahead of him but still... I can hope.

TXBBall55 7 years, 7 months ago

I did the same math and was left scratching my head. For some reason I always thought Wesley was on scholarship.

David Leathers 7 years, 7 months ago

I'm pretty sure that we're gonna lose 4 guys. Maybe five considering the uptick on Perry Ellis. Black and Wiggins are a given, Seldon and Embiid are projected pretty high as well. Bill obviously thinks we have the room or he would be offering all these guys.

Evan Bilyeu 7 years, 7 months ago

If all goes as well as advertised, meaning top three freshman live up to their hype, then yes I agree with that. I think Perry Ellis will stay after next year.

Benz Junque 7 years, 7 months ago

I would be completely shocked if Ellis left after even his junior year. His parents are big sticklers for academics. He could follow the lead of Tim Duncan, stay in school all four years and be a polished product from Day One.

clevelandjayhawker 7 years, 7 months ago

I think you could put Embiid on that list too

David Leathers 7 years, 7 months ago

The rule isn't that you have to have a season of NCAA under your belt, it's that you have to be one year removed from high school.

Benz Junque 7 years, 7 months ago

Agreed. He could sit on his couch for a year after high school and be eligible for the NBA Draft after that time.

texashawk10 7 years, 7 months ago

I really hope if all these players want to come to KU (sounds like 4 at this point if I read right) and KU doesn't have the scholarship room to accommodate all of them that Self doesn't force someone out. I don't believe Self has ever forced someone out because he recruited over a kid and forced them out to make room for a new player. A transfer because Self didn't foresee significant playing time for a kid is a different story than asking a kid to transfer because Self needed the scholarship. All I know is that I'm excited to see where this class goes because this is starting to have that feel that the 2004-2006 classes had for Self.

Ted Hume 7 years, 7 months ago

It has happened at least once, see: Brandon Rush>JR Giddens (JR's relatively modest transgressions did give Self a perfect cover, though)

texashawk10 7 years, 7 months ago

I'm pretty sure Giddens was already kicked off the team well before Rush committed. I'm pretty sure Giddens was kicked off the team in late May-early June and Rush didn't commit to KU until August I believe.

clevelandjayhawker 7 years, 7 months ago

"KU, which has several guards on its recruiting list, has two scholarships to give (senior Tarik Black and certain one-and-done Andrew Wiggins), with more spots available if anybody else turns pro or leaves the program."

Why does everyone think Andrew is one and done? I mean what if he pulled a Marcus Smart and stuck around another year? Wouldn't be financially a great idea, but I don’t think his family is hurting for money. And I'm sure the NBA is great, but not much in life beats your time in college. Maybe getting his degree is what he meant by "shock the world."

Or maybe I'm just hopeful.

Robert Brock 7 years, 7 months ago

When you watch him play, you will notice that he is more than ready for the League. Many OADs aren't ready; he is.

clevelandjayhawker 7 years, 7 months ago

Not doubting his abilities, just curious if anyone has heard ANDREW say he wants to go to the NBA next year. I know it is early, but with as much fun as he is going to have the next 7 months, he may want to stay one more year. Even if to us sitting at home it seems like a bad choice.

Steve Gantz 7 years, 7 months ago

But we've yet to see him on a college floor. Obviously he seems uber talented, but I agreed with Cleveland when I read that.

Robin Smith 7 years, 7 months ago

He has alluded to making the jump before.

However it's perfectly plausible he could stick around. There's more to succeeding in the NBA than getting drafted. Your point re Marcus Smart is well-founded. I always think about Tim Duncan.

Ron Prichard 7 years, 7 months ago

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but everyone thinks Wiggins is one and done because he is. When you are good enough that you would have been the #1 pick out of high school if you could have gone straight to the draft, and you are already the consensus #1 for next year, you have been likened as the best sure-thing since James or Durant, and you're the biggest national sensation out of Canada since Celine Dion, you are not staying in college for a second year. I don't care how much you like college, you are gone. It may suck, but that's the way it works these days. We have Wiggins for one year and we should be extremely excited for that and not lament the fact that he will be gone after this year. Do NOT get your hopes up for a second year.

Number_22 7 years, 7 months ago

Exactly. Wiggins is gone after this year. He's got $50 million waiting for him in shoe contracts when he goes #1 in the draft next year. Nobody turns that down. Not Marcus Smart. Not Tim Duncan. Nobody.

RJ King 7 years, 7 months ago

Can we substitute Gretzky for Dion? Ehh?

milehighhawk 7 years, 7 months ago

This summer a highly ranked non-basketball player was considering coming to KU.

The kid was a huge KU hoops fan, and the KU coach arranged a brief sit-down with Bill. Self of course was as awesome as you might expect. Not only did he check to see if the recruit wanted to meet any of the current players, but after a bit, he gave a nice little recruiting pitch.

"So what other schools are you thinking about?"

The kid responded, "Baylor."

Without missing a beat, Self smiles and says, "That's not a real school."

Needless to say, the kid is now enrolled at KU.

Bill Self: improving the quality of our programs across the campus. Rock Chalk.

jaybate 7 years, 7 months ago

Without missing a beat, Self smiles and says, "That's not a real school." --milehighhawk

First, its a great quote and I can see why you would have wanted to share it.

Second, you shouldn't have shared it.

If I were Scott Drew, I would send you a $100 gift certificate for No Brains'r Us for outing that quote.

Self works his butt off extending professional curtesy to opposing coaches, at not lording over them with his 84% W&L statement, and his Ring, and his job with the Father of All College Basketball Programs and you just dashed that for him.

milehighhawk 7 years, 7 months ago

I'm flattered you find me to be such a credible source and

(Part II) surprised you of all people would criticize over-sharing.

Michael Bratisax 7 years, 7 months ago

AND..I don't always hate..

But when I do..


BucknellJayhawk3 7 years, 7 months ago

I don't know exactly how recruiting works, but I'm assuming it's first come first serve? This must put some strain on both Self and the recruits. If we only have 2 spots, what if our bottom 2 recruits commit right away without even giving a chance for our top recruits to visit/commit? I wish we had 6 spots roster spots open next year :)

Ted Hume 7 years, 7 months ago

This brings out the issue that an "offer" doesn't exactly mean that the recruit has a button he can push and he is guaranteed a scholarship on the spot. I'd love to know all of the intricacies of the recruiting process, but imagine that there are certain recruits that we have "offered", and that over time have fallen somewhat in our list of priorities, and that when calls are made back and forth with the staff and recruit X an understanding might be reached that is something like, "OK, so you do want to come here...lets work out the details in a couple of weeks and see if it is still the best fit for both of us..." during which time said staff gets back to recruit Y and says, look [Alexander, etc...] we really want you as our #1 focus, like big-time, and we might not have the schollie if we don't get some movement soon,. etc. etc. and all of a sudden recruit Y has committed and recruit X is left looking at option B, even though he was ready to commit and put on hold by the staff. Again, not sure about the complexities of recruitment, but there certainly is wiggle room with regard to "offers"

BucknellJayhawk3 7 years, 7 months ago

Ah, I didn't realize that the "offer" is somewhat negotiable- makes recruiting seem even tougher when it's not black and white.

Martin Rosenblum 7 years, 7 months ago

"...possible 2-for-1 at KU"

It's probably just me. But, usually a "2-for-1" points to paying for one and getting two. With all of the scrutiny in college sports, I would have rather seen a different wording as the headline for this story. Paranoia unfortunately can morph into perception and perception becomes reality in this hyper-sensitive society. Be careful of expressions, someone could make a mountain out of a mole-hill if so inclined.

AJ Vanderhorst 7 years, 7 months ago

With Lyle rated #22 & Blackmon #23, I wonder which guard is Self's priority. I'd assume Lyle because of the Alexander connection...which makes me wonder why Self just offered Blackmon.

Conditional offer?

Jack Wilson 7 years, 7 months ago

slayr - Right, if we offer Blackmon, and he wants to commit, Self can tell Lyles and Alexander, it's now or never. Seems to me like a well timed bit of "pressure" if we want the Lyles/Alexander combo.

Evan Bilyeu 7 years, 7 months ago

Maybe he offered him to make Lyle pick faster, Lyle will see he offered him and it will make Lyle commit before he does. Maybe that is why he posted the picture of him and Alexander with the "dominant duo" picture, something to think about...

Ron Prichard 7 years, 7 months ago

Perfect analysis, slayr. If KU can get 4 of the top recruits next year, they will find a way, even if that means someone won't be returning.

Jesse Johnson 7 years, 7 months ago

I've never really felt bad before when KU had players transfer to make room for more talented incoming players (i.e. Quintrell Thomas and Tyrone Appleton). I would just feel bad though if we had to make either Landen Lucas or Jamari Traylor transfer to make room for these more talented bigs as they both already had to sit a year for RS. If they transferred, then they'd have to sit another year.

Michael Bratisax 7 years, 7 months ago

That was a great analysis. I also think AW3 in the rotation. You're absolutely right that sophomores do not automatically get the nod over freshman but I think Greene and White are fairly close talent wise and Andrew has had one year of experience and sophomores usually do get the a longer leash than freshmen do.

Obviously everyone is excited about getting a 2 for 1 and Lyle is top-tier talent BUT if we sign Lyle, I think we will miss out on Oubre who clearly has Kansas at the top of his list.

Definitely glad that I don't need to make these type of decisions but HCBS does get paid well to do just that.

IgnorantYokel 7 years, 7 months ago

Two spots open? I want Alexander and Turner. If getting Alexander also means we're getting Lyle, then so be it.

In the context of the Wiggins media hype and our post-season prospects with such a talented roster, I'm fairly confident at least one of Selden, Embiid, and Ellis will also make the NBA jump at season's end. If only because someone has to finish second in scoring to Wiggins.

That said, I also want Oubre. What a nice feeling to be in on soooo many top-10 kids. Credit to Jerrance!!

Evan Bilyeu 7 years, 7 months ago

I really think that if Turner comes we should redshirt him, he isn't going to play that much. He would be in the back of the line. In front of him is Mickelson, in front of him is Embiid or Lucas. It would probably be better.

Tony Bandle 7 years, 7 months ago


1] If Xavier Henry and Josh Selby were considered OADs, there is no way that Wayne Selden and Joel Embiid are not taken as well. The only way they stay at Kansas is if they choose to do so.

2] KU's recruting is becoming more like the favorite club in town...the harder it is to get into, the more you want to get in!!

3] Since we have been blessed to be Jayhawks, we don't have to worry about it, but, I'll bet, next to Kentucky, Kansas is the most envied and disliked school by the rest of Division 1. The good news is were are a target because of our ability...Kentucky is a target because of their tactics!!

4] Check out Ashley Judd these days..if she packed those bags under her eyes, she would be able to travel for a month without doing any laundry!! [Poor us..all we have is Olivia Wilde!!]

5] Football crazed area + Waco, the Texas,Arm Pit + horrific coach + "X" = Stellar Basketball Recruiting. I'll let you all fill in the "X".

6] If you were in a lifeboat with only one life preserver ring and Scott Drew was flailing away on the right side of the boat and Bruce Weber was flailing away on the left side of the boat,.....where would you throw the life preserver?????

seattlejayhawk68 7 years, 7 months ago

I'd probably toss it between the two of them just to watch the ensued fracas.

Steve Gantz 7 years, 7 months ago

When does too much talent affect the overall health of the entire team? We've seen great contributions from kids who are not top 100 talent over the years. Right now I'd say some of these kids are looking at schools other than KU because it doesn't look like enough PT is available. The kids we already have, how many might be considering transferring? I think of someone like Jamari Traylor. Might he be thinking PT is going to be even more scarce than last year?

For all of Kentucky's amazing recruiting (cheating?) they we have more title game appearances than they do since Cal came to Lexington and the same number of titles.

ParisHawk 7 years, 7 months ago

"For all of Kentucky's amazing recruiting (cheating?) they we have more title game appearances than they do since Cal came to Lexington and the same number of titles."

Wait, wind that back. Since Cal at UK, we have one title game appearance and 0 titles. Or did I miss a season?

Tony Bandle 7 years, 7 months ago

wissoxfan83 has suffered extreme trauma from the 2012 title game loss and is suffering selective amnesia.....I sure wish I could!!

Steve Gantz 7 years, 7 months ago

My bad Paris, didn't think about that too much! Could have been something with my school being on lockdown for three hours this morning for some nonsense!

Woody Cragg 7 years, 7 months ago

...When you've too many chief's & not enough Indians...or if you can't get them to buy in & fail to let them be aware that you run the program & not them. Cal can now spell NIT...Rio Adams may learn how to spell attend class now also.

jaybate 7 years, 7 months ago

Part 1

When John Wooden had to start one guy that would have a big career in the NBA, and a starting five under 6-5, he won two rings.

When John Wooden started one of the all time super centers and a couple top sophomore recruits, along with role players, he won three straight rings.

When John Wooden started another one of the all time super centers, plus a hall of fame shooting forward, plus a backup center that would have started at every other school in the country, he won three rings.

When John Wooden lacked a super center, but was ten deep at what today would be called 5 stars, he won two more rings.

Too much talent is never a problem.

The problem is always: do you know how to win a ring if your talent level is good enough that particular year to win a ring?

Self did not have enough talent and experience to win a ring until '08. And he didn't.

Self should have won a ring in '08 and did, though he had to be saved from himself by his players. Self did not win the '08 ring. He won the '08 semifinal vs. UNC and his players won the '08 Final.

Self got to the 16 the following season in '09 without enough talent to win it all.

Self had the talent to win it all in '10 and did not.

Self seemed at first not to have the talent to win it all in '11, but the way things broke that year in the tournament, he had all the talent he needed to win the ring, but didn't getter done.

Self had the talent in '12 to get to the semifinal, but not the talent to get to the ring, because of the freakish way UK was stacked. Self got to the semi and won it. The amazing thing is he got to the final and almost won a game they probably shouldn't have.

Self lacked the talent in last season to go all the way and didn't.

Self record shows he knows how to win 30/season and win conference titles better than anyone coaching today.

But the jury is still out on whether Bill Self knows how to win rings.

There seem to be only three guys coaching today that for sure know how to win rings, when they have the talent and experience: Consonants, Donovan, and Pitino.

Some might include Ratso Izzo. I leave him out, because he can only win a ring with sufficient talent if they let him and his teams butcher opponents to death. Ratso Izzo has never won a ring, when XTRem Muscle Ball was not allowed the way Consonants and Pitino have.

Donovan also has only won his rings in the XTReme Muscle Ball era, but Donovan won two in a row without his team playing way rougher than opponents, so I include Donovan on the list.

Bottom line, I respect Coach Self and think he is a basketball genius. BUT...

dtdjayhawk 7 years, 7 months ago

You forget about Perry Ellis...He will be carrying the chip and it's going to be a lot of fun to watch

RJ King 7 years, 7 months ago

No one can argue Wooden's coaching genius in an era when players said, "yes sir" and stayed for four years. But ring comparison is tricky, as Regionals were truly regional. To reach the Final Four, UCLA only had to win 2 games - usually against the likes of Long Beach State, Weber State, Seattle, Pacific, New Mexico State, Wyoming or Santa Clara. They clearly dominated the FF, but were almost assured of making it in the first place. Even Wooden's conference titles were achieved by sitting atop only 6-8 teams, not 12 as does Self.

Still, Wooden was truly the finest of his era. You're right, Self will need a couple more rings to be thought of as the finest of his.

Bill Skeet 7 years, 7 months ago

Would you put Self on your shortlist if they won the title this year?

JayDocMD 7 years, 7 months ago

Who else thinks Coach Self may be having regrets about giving a scholarship to Mickelson?

IgnorantYokel 7 years, 7 months ago

I bet someone once expressed the same sentiment about Jeff Withey. What on earth do you know? We've never seen Hunter Mickelson play a single minute in a Kansas uniform.

JayDocMD 7 years, 7 months ago

I hope the best for Hunter and maybe he can be the proverbial "diamond in the rough." But...

Would you rather have one of these top 10 players: Okafor, Alexander, Turner, Winslow? Or Mickelson, the number 100 ranked kid coming out of HS? Mickelson is no Withey (36th ranked player.) In fact, Coach Self descibed him at his signing as a "poor man's Withey."

I may not be the smartest guy in the world but I'm no IgnorantYokel. I'd rather have that extra scholarship right now.

Tony Bandle 7 years, 7 months ago

AWIII may end up being forced to do more than just redshirt...unless it's another school with red uniforms. Hope I'm wrong...not sure that I am.

Any chance Keith could adopt someone next year as a step-brother????

Jack Wilson 7 years, 7 months ago

JayDoc -- I thought about that too. I also wondered if he regrets having Lucas redshirt, thus making it very tough for the kid to transfer.

If things break here on some of these guys, a possibility is a Lucas transfer at semester. He would then could play at semester next year. If he isn't going to play here, that wouldn't be all that bad for him. He'd have 2.5 seasons left.

But my thoughts there are premature, of course.

RJ King 7 years, 7 months ago

Lucas' tweets are always very positive and spiritual - praising both KU and God. As a 3-star, I doubt he realistically envisioned a Raef LaFrentz, Nick Colison, Sasha Kaun, or Cole Aldrich-like college experience, probably just fantasized about it. His priorities seem to be pretty balanced between family, friends, God, academics, character, fun and basketball. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling Landon will be satisfied with his own personal progress and to contribute whatever and wherever he is needed.

Joe Baker 7 years, 7 months ago

ME, but, he didn't know this recruiting craze would follow.

texashawk10 7 years, 7 months ago

No regrets at all about Mickelson. Mickelson is already in Lawrence in a KU uniform and has already played major conference college basketball and is a more known commodity than any of these recruits at the college level. Mickelson does have a lower ceiling than these recruits, but he's already here and these other recruits are not guaranteed to come to Lawrence.

Besides, bringing in a transfer and asking him to leave before he ever becomes eligible is bad mojo for the future of KU recruiting.

jaybate 7 years, 7 months ago

Part 2

Being a basketball genius and being a coach that actually knows how to win a ring; those are different things.

I believe Coach Self is entering the phase of his career, when if he can win a ring now, he is mature enough and experienced enough to systematize the "how-to."

And he appears to be coming into the fat part of his recruiting arc, at last.

If he can win a ring either of the next two seasons, then I think he could be in line for a perfect storm of winning not unlike John Wooden. He will have systematized the how-to and he will have a flood tide of talent.

Go, Bill, go!!!!!!!

wrwlumpy 7 years, 7 months ago

Too much talent, oh the problems we face at KU. Other coaches will use this against us. "Don't go to KU, your not good enough, stay here and get to start for us." Oh the humanity.

If you are good enough, you'll get to play, Ask walk on Christian Moody or Conner Teahan. We will not go down a notch because someone who was highly recruited sat on the bench. Coach has said he wants the best 5 on the floor. I'm pretty sure that coach will tell the truth when talking to recruits. Selden and Wiggins think they can cut it at KU. Like Rio said in his tweets, he'd be having crazy minutes at any other school.

JayDocMD 7 years, 7 months ago

He'll surely be getting crazy minutes at Odessa Junior College. If not, I'm sure they serve fake bowls of cereal on the bench in Odessa too.

Kyle Sybesma 7 years, 7 months ago

I would love to see a breakdown from Jesse on past recruits who have attended Late Night and how many have committed. It's the best weekend to get recruits to show up and I'd love to see the numbers back up that success.

jaybate 7 years, 7 months ago

Here is how I have seen a chip form on person's shoulders: you get in a fight you didn't start and you get the snot beaten out of you. Once this happens, you go one of two ways. You either duck and run every time conflict occurs, or you walk around with a chip on your shoulder looking to make someone pay for what happened. It works for individuals. It works for nations. It works for basketball players and it works for teams. This team will most likely get roughed up very early this season. They are apt to get beaten in a mean spirited way. This would be the best thing that ever happened to this team. It would give it a mean streak through out the roster, not just one guy.

ParisHawk 7 years, 7 months ago

Sort of like what happened to the Morris twins in the last game of their freshman year: Izzo's players punked them and they spent the whole summer in the weight room starting at 6 a.m.

REHawk 7 years, 7 months ago

Ralster, Self's tear-em-down to rebuild-em approach already seems to fall into a state of transition with this talented group of newcomers, 3 frosh of whom might move on to the League come summer. His cutting back on boot camp days sends a message that his approach will be different with this spite of the official earlier starting date. Now and in the near future, if half the playing time minutes vanish after Year 1, Self will have to adjust to the flux, as he already appears to be doing. In retrospect, Perry might be the last McD's player to face the tear-em-down sequence in the remaining BIll Self years. In truth, Perry made the adjustments quickly, all things considered. No time to do the same with Selden and Wiggs. And JoJo hasn't enough hoopsbound neuromuscle memory to warrant tearing down, as he is still learning the game.

REHawk 7 years, 7 months ago

That said, Self can still manage to apply his magic with Frankamp and Mason, each of whom should be in the program for the long haul....

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