Tuesday, March 12, 2013

Jayhawks: ‘There’s nothing to celebrate’

The Big 12 trophy sits in the players lounge on Monday, March 11, 2013, at Allen Fieldhouse. Kansas University earned a share of the title with Kansas State.

The Big 12 trophy sits in the players lounge on Monday, March 11, 2013, at Allen Fieldhouse. Kansas University earned a share of the title with Kansas State.



The Big 12 trophy sits in the players lounge on Monday, March 11, 2013, at Allen Fieldhouse. Kansas University earned a share of the title with Kansas State.

Kansas State’s basketball players and coaches clipped the nets before about 3,000 fans Monday in Bramlage Coliseum in celebration of the school’s first men's conference hoops championship since 1977.

There was no such commotion at Kansas University — where the co-Big 12 champion Jayhawks, like the Wildcats, lost Saturday to see their final league record settle at 14-4.

“We didn’t pop any bubbly on the way back from Waco, trust me,” KU coach Bill Self said of the aftermath of the Jayhawks’ 81-58 loss to Baylor.

He did congratulate his players for winning a ninth-consecutive Big 12 crown on the bus ride from Topeka’s Forbes Field to Lawrence on Saturday night and, on Monday afternoon, handed each of his players league-title hats and T-shirts following a critical film session.

“I wouldn’t say we’ve celebrated at all,” KU senior center Jeff Withey said. “We lost when we won it. It’s not a very good way to win it.”

It’s safe to say there will be no pep rally in Lawrence this week in advance of KU’s Big 12 quarterfinal contest against either Texas Tech or West Virginia, set for a 2 p.m. tipoff Thursday at Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo.

“Are they?” Withey said Monday when informed the Wildcats had scheduled a pep rally for Monday night. “We’re Kansas. We’re not going to do that. We’re just looking forward to the (Big 12) tournament coming up.”

Or as senior guard Elijah Johnson noted: “I mean, it’s nine straight, but we don’t celebrate until everything is said and done. There’s nothing to celebrate about right now, anyway.”

Though mighty disappointed in KU’s 23-point loss to Baylor — a game that took place after KSU’s loss at Oklahoma State — Self has made sure to tell his players “congratulations” more than a few times.

“One game can’t take away from what our guys have accomplished, what they’ve done through the course of the conference season,” Self said. “We are not real pleased the way we ended it. I’m proud we got a piece of it. I look forward to going to Kansas City and seeing what happens there.”

Self said he’s heard from several individuals who have said, ‘“Congratulations, great accomplishment, it sucks how you did it.’ That’s not true. It doesn’t stink. It’s a great feat for our guys.

“It’s never great losing the last game of a regular season. If you look at the body of work, since Jan. 10 it has been pretty impressive. Eliminate eight days (three consecutive losses), and it’s been really impressive. We’ll talk about it (title), but I don’t see any reason to be giddy about it or celebrate it in a big way because I want our guys to still sting, to still feel even though we’re happy with our accomplishment, why would we not put a foot on a throat (at BU)? Why would we take the foot off the gas? We’ve got to have that killer instinct so moving forward if we experience some success we don’t think that success automatically comes to you. You’ve got to work every day.”

Self said KSU was equally deserving.

“We’re not going to apologize for sharing it at all, and congratulations to K-State. I hate that they share it with us, but they deserve it because they had a great year,” Self said. “They won some big games away from home, too. It’s one of those things that I don’t know if people around here — and maybe rightfully so — really appreciate what it is, but from a guys’ locker-room standpoint, from a coaches’ locker-room standpoint, you want to be the best that you compete against. For us, that’s also (North) Carolina, Kentucky, Duke, Michigan State and some other people that we run against. The primary deal is, you spend 21⁄2 months of your season trying to win a league championship. Why would you discredit winning a league championship when you spend so much time trying to do it?

“To get nine in a row, or a piece of it, is pretty cool,” he added, noting everybody on the team has “maxed out.” “If they’ve been here five years, they’ve got five rings. If they’ve been here three years, they’ve got three rings.”

Withey said the BU game is now officially past tense.

“We’ve forgot about that game already,” he said. “We can learn from it for sure. At the end of the day, we are still champions. We won it with K-State. We did our job. We’re going to try winning the tournament. It’s all we focus on.”

Traditionally, winners of the Big 12 tournament also clip the nets.

“It’s for pride,” Withey said of the upcoming tourney. “Whoever wins it was best team in the league. We definitely want to win it. It’d help us get a No. 1 seed hopefully in the NCAA Tournament.”

Weber’s line sparks no comment: The Wichita Eagle’s account of Monday’s KSU pep rally reports that “coach Bruce Weber joked that he had hoped to celebrate a Big 12 championship a week earlier on Senior Day, but poor officiating — referring to KU’s overtime victory at Iowa State — got in the way.”

Reached by the Journal-World for a reaction to that news item, Self said: “No comment.”


Omari Miller 7 years, 2 months ago

Bruce Weber just can't help opening his mouth and having stupid [expletive] flow out of it.

Hey Bruce, how 'bout you just accept your gift of a shared championship on that silver platter and do your best to act like you've been there before... and we'll forget that your team lost to ours both times we met?

Steve Quatrocky 7 years, 2 months ago

Agreed, he sounds like a bitter Mizwho fan, even less class than holding the funeral for Self at Illinois and here he is taking his big bow even though he still hasnt beaten KU or Self, blaming the refs for sharing the title when his team lost and had to back into the share by our loss. And taking a COY trophy for putting Franks kids on autopilot. They love him now, but right now is his peak, its more than likely all downhill from here for KSU and Weber. Either an early exit or a third loss to KU in the B12 Tourney and next year he has to replace the seniors without Franks help in scouting, recruiting or adjusting attitudes. He didnt do a very good job of that at Illinois, once Bill's kids were gone it only took a couple of years to get fired.

KUbsee69 7 years, 2 months ago

No way we'll forget that we beat them both games ... no way! Hey Bruce, who's the #1 seed?

Lance Cheney 7 years, 2 months ago

You better check the Big 12 tournament bracket again.

Jeff Coffman 7 years, 2 months ago

KU is #1 and KSU is #2...sorry to inform you, but your comment doesn't seem correctly stated.

Lance Cheney 7 years, 2 months ago

My comment was directed at a KSU tool (whose comment has since been deleted) who said we weren't the #1 seed. So now it makes me look like the tool...

JayHok 7 years, 2 months ago

He just blackballed himself to all conference officials, our players and several Big 12 coaches with that whining attitude. You just dont say that kind of thing, especially at a ceremony where he's had weeks to think about consequences. That didn't take long for Bruce to reveal who he really is. Did he want to also whine about the goal tending call against KU or any of the phantom fouls against Withey? How about EJ's defender reaching as he drove the lane.

Michael Bratisax 7 years, 2 months ago

I seem to remember us sharing a title or 2 w/Texas although losing both games...we did however come back and won the Big 12 Tournament.

JayHok 7 years, 2 months ago

KU lost one game at their arena and then beat them in the tourney. Back then North teams only played South teams once a year.

Ethan Berger 7 years, 2 months ago

I love Witheys comments. "We’re Kansas. We’re not going to do that."

I hate conf tourneys, they have to much weight on them. Ex. Liberty. Does nothing all year but win the tourney so now they go dancing. However, I'm looking forward to our conf tourney. It would be nice to settle once and for all we are the king of the big 12 this year. We swept the co champs, so honestly winning it would be for the rest of USA to accept us as the best. We gave every opportunity for someone to take away our streak. Lost to the worst team, lost at home and went on a three game losing streak. We asked them to end our streak and they just couldn't. That is why Kansas is the best, even when we are at our worst, it is better then you. I felt ISU got jobbed but come on that was two weeks ago, they need to drop it asap.

Michael Luby 7 years, 2 months ago

Ditto on the Withey comments. Its totally true. We are Kansas. Its expected that when we win, we just go Next.

Sam Constance 7 years, 2 months ago

What kind of joke is that? An unfunny one?

To me, Weber messed up the punchline. It should have been

"coach Weber joked that he had hoped to celebrate a Big 12 championship a week earlier on Senior Day, but poor coaching--referring to his inability to do more than hold a 2-point lead for 38 seconds out of 80 minutes played against Self's Jayhawks--got in the way."

Now THAT'S comedy. The coach of the year being unable to defeat a fellow competitor for said COY award and then having the balls to make jokes about officiating costing an outright championship.

What a little stain.

Janella Williams 7 years, 2 months ago

Just curious, who are you telling to grow up?

Michael Bratisax 7 years, 2 months ago

I didn't see where you wrote "grow up". Is it my eyes or is someone interpreting words that weren't said?

Lance Cheney 7 years, 2 months ago

Again, just like my comment above, some KSU loser was on here earlier, but his posts have since been deleted. So any weird comments you see that seem out of context were probably directed at him.

nwhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

Dear Bruce,

Get used to what you're feeling.

Yours truly,


P.S. Stay classy.

KGphoto 7 years, 2 months ago

"Stay classy" is sarcasm code for “you’re classless”.

texashawk10 7 years, 2 months ago

I sincerely wish Bruce Weber enough luck to keep KSU good enough to hang around for awhile, but not good enough to ever come close to beating KU. I just don't have the respesct for Weber that I do for Frank Martin because of all stupid crap he says and does. Martin didn't complain like a school girl without a date to a dance about officiating and Martin also gives credit where credit is due unlike Weber.

Hell, I even respect Norm Stewart as a coach and person infinitely more than Weber. Stewart is Missouri's Fambrough and played a significant role in making the Border War the rivalry that it was. Stewart was classy enough to come back to Lawrence after he retired and let KU honor him with a rocking chair and one last "Sit down Norm!" chant. That day showed to everyone how much respect Stewart truly had for KU and for what the rivalry meant. Do I like Norm Stewart, no because he the face of the enemy for many years, but I do respect the man and yes it's possible to dislike and respect them at the same time.

There are three coaches that I truly have no respect for as coaches and they are Weber, Scott Drew, and Billy Tubbs. Weber I already explained, Scott Drew is just a tool of a person. How pitiful is it when a coach has to beg the fans to rush the court? After watching the Danny and the Miracles special on CBS Sports, Billy Tubbs still comes across as the same arrogant a-hole he was as OU's coach.

jaybate 7 years, 2 months ago

Terrific assessment.

Your Shizz detector for jerk coaches is infallible.

Beating jerks is one of the joys of sports.

nostradavid 7 years, 2 months ago

Beating Billy Tubbs on April 4, 1988 was awesome fun.

I was in Columbia years ago after a car accident put my sister in the Mizzou hospital trauma center. Walking to the campus bookstore, I found a big tiger head mosaic in the sidewalk. The KU-MU game was that night, so I danced on the tiger's nose in an insulting manner. The voodoo worked.

Kevin Huffman 7 years, 2 months ago

Um, Calipari? May have started at KU, but still gets under my skin like no other. Can you POSSIBLY be more slimy?!?!?!

lurkerhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

don't like him but he does deserve some recognition for getting highly touted freshmen to play together and win a championship.

Michael Bratisax 7 years, 2 months ago

I don't know, he has had 2 of his 3 final four runs deleted from the record books. This year, he had another group of highly talented and touted freshman who will be lucky to get into this years tournament.

Michael Bratisax 7 years, 2 months ago

From a different era but Adolph Rupp (surprisingly another Kentucky coach) was pretty slimy in his days.

Michael Bratisax 7 years, 2 months ago

Unfortunately. He learned the best way to coach from Phog, the cheating and score rigging, he got elsewhere.

Suzi Marshall 7 years, 2 months ago

Easy on Cal. He has solid KU credits, including staying loyal to Ted Owens and the transition to Larry Brown. Cals a good man and great coach.

Michael Luby 7 years, 2 months ago

He might be a pretty good coach, but he is definitely on the shady side of things in terms of rule adherance. UMASS, season wins vacated. Memphis, season wins vacated. Kentucky, still pending.

ku_foaf 7 years, 2 months ago

I think we are getting a view of why nobody in the Big 10 seemed to like or respect Weber.

I hope he doesn't drive K-State back down to mediocrity, but I have my doubts.

Tim Orel 7 years, 2 months ago

I thought that was at his last regular season game at KU.

JD Roth 7 years, 2 months ago

It was halftime of the Texas game 2003. Quite a moment as Norm is presented the rocking chair to the chants of "sit down Norm" throughout Allen Fieldhouse.

Michael Bratisax 7 years, 2 months ago

It must have been a great moment... although I would have thought seeing JoJo White having his jersey retired at halftime would have been the biggest highlight.

Tophawk 7 years, 2 months ago

thanks for the bulletin board material Bruce!!! if KU/K-State meet it doesn't bode well for the Wildcats this weekend in KC...

JayHok 7 years, 2 months ago

The thing is this just isn't something you say even if the only part of the ISU game he saw was the last five seconds. Self was being as supportive as he could possibly be for somebody who was disrespectful in so many ways to Self at Illinois. Then Weber hits the press with this. Self doesn't need anymore fuel from Weber but this little flaming stick from Bruce could last for years and years. Weber just got personal in a backhanded kind of way that he knew was going to the press. Self even was forced into a corner, had a chance to whine back, but instead left with no comment. That no comment says a lot.

JD Roth 7 years, 2 months ago

Self has been a total gentleman regarding Weber, but man, nothing ceases to amaze me anymore. Weber just lit the flame in this rivalry. It should be interesting should one meet two on Saturday.

texashawk10 7 years, 2 months ago

By interesting, do you mean will KU let KSU within 20 in the second half?

Curtis Stutz 7 years, 2 months ago

This seems like a great place to be, not down on themselves 'cause they kept the streak alive but also far from satisfied. They want the Big12 title, probably also really want a chance to spank ISU in KC. I just hope they are far from satisfied after that should they accomplish those goals. I also like that Jeff is talking 1 seed if they win the Big12, hopefully KU is a 2 like last year and it puts a chip on their shoulders again. It was ridiculous that people didn't even talk about KU as a 1 seed last year, the resume was as good as at least 2 other 1 seeds but not even given consideration by the media.

Wow, just when you're ready to let go of all the things Weber has said before.

I'm a Kansas, I have a brother that went to KU and have attended many KU games, but I'm not an alum. I also have had cousins go to KSU and I root for both teams. Having Weber at KSU makes it nearly impossible to root for KSU at this point, plus KSU fans in general are a lot more annoying than KU fans. Weber is trying really hard to do anything possible to spark a rivalry/debate/hype around KSU/KU. Well it's tourney time now Bruce, teams aren't going to sleepwalk against you the way they have all season in the Big12.

It does kill me that the nation is still making such a big deal out of a NO CALL. Not a bad call in the wrong direction which happens multiple times in every game, but a no call at the end of regulation which while I subscribe to calling the game for all 40 minutes, is more the norm than the exception. How many times have I also seen unnecessary dunks/pts scored by a team obviously about to win the game since EJ's dunk? Plenty.

Curtis Stutz 7 years, 2 months ago

Some UK fans were pointing out this pic from instagram with Randle wearing a Wildcats shirt. Has probably been posted to some article already.

May not mean anything, may have been an upload of an old pic, but doesn't look good.

Curtis Stutz 7 years, 2 months ago

That's what I was hoping to hear, thanks.

Michael Luby 7 years, 2 months ago

photoshop. Randle doesnt even have Kstate on his short list.

nostradavid 7 years, 2 months ago

Cutting down the nets at a pep rally two days after your last loss is really funny. ( It's been a long time since 1977.)

Almost as funny as plumber's crack camouflage ...

image vs. reality

image vs. reality by nostradavid

JD Roth 7 years, 2 months ago

K-State can celebrate their 21st conference title any way they want, especially since it coincides with their undisputed Football title.

JD Roth 7 years, 2 months ago

Thanks for the correction, you are right.

JD Roth 7 years, 2 months ago

I should have verified it rather than take talk radio's word for it. You are correct.

Sarah Carr 7 years, 2 months ago

Stay classy, Hawks, and take care of business in Kansas City!

jaybate 7 years, 2 months ago

Jaybate's Basketball Mythbusters

Myth: Bruce Weber had surgery to have a foreskin removed from his head.

Bust: False. Bruce still has it.

Michael Luby 7 years, 2 months ago

Ha! You said he has a phallus for a head

jaybate 7 years, 2 months ago

Dang, I thought it was a pretty good double entendre, not a violation of the user agreement.

I will try to get better.

Michael Luby 7 years, 2 months ago

We are Kansas. We dont need to celebrate league championships. When it happens, we just go NEXT!

Michael Bratisax 7 years, 2 months ago

Do we celebrate Big 12 Tournament Championships?

fansincewilt 7 years, 2 months ago

Thank you, thank you Coach Weber. Thank you for that beautiful gift. I think our guys just might need that extra incentive that you just handed them. Thank you, thank you.

Tophawk 7 years, 2 months ago

I don't know why people still think we have a shot with Randle or Wiggins for that matter..ain't happening folks...

stinkybulldog 7 years, 2 months ago

Why don't we have a shot with Randle? I can see Wiggins going to FSU, but we are definitely in the game for Randle.

nuleafjhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

What a perfect fit at Silo Tech on the Kaw:

A no class coach for a low class program.

Kurt Eskilson 7 years, 2 months ago

Everyone everywhere who ranks KU among the nation's top 5 greatest all-time programs. Because that's what the Jayhawks are.

JayHok 7 years, 2 months ago

For the most part KU people are just fine with KSU people. KSU anceators were part of the fire too, we're all part of the free state. Don't let one or two people on Internet boards influence your thinking. There are millions of Jayhawks all over the world. KU fans have never respected Weber all that much from a character standpoint. KU fans respect Snyder. Weber did well this year from a coaching standpoint. Once the other big 12 coaches scout him more that's when it will get interesting for Weber's post game interviews. I'm proud of KSU's players and I'm proud of what Martin did for KSU. That's from a Jayhawks fan.

kellerman411 7 years, 2 months ago

Bruce Weber has a really punchable face.

LAJayhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

I may or may not have LOLed.

......ok.... I LOLed.

Michael Bratisax 7 years, 2 months ago

I think Coach Weber has a kind face....

The kind I would like to wipe my *** with.

Timmay97 7 years, 2 months ago

Unless I missed it.......why hasn't anyone commented at the fact that Weber has yet to "truly" have success as a coach WITH HIS OWN RECRUITS!!!!

He benefitted at Illinois with what Self left him making it all the way to the Finals. And again, without quite as much talent as he was left any Illinois, he benifitted with what Martin left him.....including a stud senior who could shoot.

I don't doubt Weber is a good coach, but it does kind of tick me off when I hear him get all this credit that I don't think is "completely" warranted.

In my opinion......let's see where K-State is 3-4 years from now. Then we will see how great a coach he really is. Cause if I remember right.....he got FIRED from Illinois.

dhinkansas 7 years, 2 months ago

Yeah, Illinois paid Weber $4 million to go away.

phins13td 7 years, 2 months ago

Well said Timmay97. My thoughts exactly.

nuleafjhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

I'm missing Missouri less and less..................

Kevin Huffman 7 years, 2 months ago

Yep. ISU & KSU kind of doing a good job taking their place. Who knew that it would be TWO schools that would fill in their place! :) Even though the competition was there and they were one of the better ones in the conference, no feelings of animosity over OSU - unless some of you actually WERE bothered by Smart's backflip.

actorman 7 years, 2 months ago

I think it's completely unfair to equate ISU and KSU. It's true that the ISU fans didn't display much class at the end of the KU game, but generally ISU fans have been well behaved. And when you compare the classiness of the coaches, it's like night and day.

Suzi Marshall 7 years, 2 months ago

Not me....I loved every phase of hating on Missouri, especially the very real history associated with it. I'm still po'ed with them for leaving and hope Self/Weis never plays them.

Phil Leister 7 years, 2 months ago

Prior to Saturday, I made some comments wishing for an OSU win so we wouldn't have to share the title. Quite a few people responded by saying, I wish nothing bad against K-State, they're not Mizzou, let's root for the state of Kansas. Now do you see why sharing it sucks so much? Weber is an insufferable piece and Manhattan thinks they're king of the Big XII now.

JayHok 7 years, 2 months ago

Just another big 12 fanbase. Not worried about them. Who cares. KSU fans know deep down who won two out of two. So what we had one of the worst years in a decade and still won the big 12 and have the #1 seed in the big 12 tournament. It's Weber who can't control his tongue. Hoiberg was the coach of the so called reason KSU has to share according to Weber. Look at Hoiberg's quotes. He said there's a whole game of basketball's calls to look at, not just one. Even if it's just one call, it's still debatable. One ESPN announcer the other day said ISU defender was sliding.

bad_dog 7 years, 2 months ago

It was the ESPN announcer calling the "Super Tuesday" game the week following the KU-ISU game.

JayHok 7 years, 2 months ago

During the Florida game on ESPN a couple days after the ISU game. Multiple announcers ACTUALLY discussed over the last few weeks that multie calls were blown against KU during the entire ISU game as well.

Robert Brown 7 years, 2 months ago

I doubt KSU would have had as much success this year had Frank Martin stayed. KSU had a great year and I don't understand why people here refuse to give Weber credit. Where is all this bitterness coming from. We had a chance to win an undisputed championship and we blew it. At this point we move on. The tournament will be tough. We have a possible match up with Iowa State in the second round which could be a problem. I'm more concerned that we could fall to a #3 seed.

Sam Constance 7 years, 2 months ago

Weber deserves all the credit in the world...

...for the coaching skill required to take a pre-existing team of players and get them to play together with Xs and Os.

The problem is that in the general profession that is college coaching, that's a situation that is unique. Not that it's uncommon (since we all know coaching turnover happens annually), but that it's a special circumstance that only occurs during a transition period. If you can coach X's and O's for a team you didn't build, that's a great skill, but one that doesn't really have much longevity or long-term value.

In other words, yeah, Bruce Weber seems to be a quality coach when it comes to coaching a team someone else built and deserves credit for that. But he'll only get one, maybe two years in that situation before he needs to supply his own players.

I was listening to AM 610 over the weekend and one of the mental midgets on that show said that the NOW the question about Bruce Weber and K-State was whether or not KSU could keep him from being stolen away by some other program. Sometimes I wonder if those guys even think before speaking or if they just try to fill airtime with noise. Who the heck is going to even try stealing Weber away?

Weber's issue has NEVER been performing well in the first year at a new school. The problem is when he has to sustain a program with his own recruits--one quality year at KSU hasn't changed that stigma about him. There's a reason KSU was able to get him so easily.

FearlessJayhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

I feel as if KU didn't win anything. I'm not looking forward to the NCAA tournament because I doubt very seriously any team in the Big 12 is going very far. As far as K-State is concerned, they will continue to be K-State, always the bridesmaid, never the bride. Let them hoot and holler while they can because it ain't going to last long.

yellowjeep 7 years, 2 months ago

This year has the potential to be the best tourney in years. How many times have top 5 teams lost this year? 20+? The most wide open field in years. I like KU's chances against anybody. It will be a very fun tournament and I am excited to have the opportunity to see it the opening rounds in KC.

Andy Godwin 7 years, 2 months ago

Weber is a jerk, plain and simply who has an inferiority complex when it comes to Self. Glad Self continues to take the high road. In reality we would not have had to deal with this junk if KU had taken care of business at home against OSU, or on the road against TCU and then again at Baylor. They had their chances to win it outright. Great regular season overall, but still leaves a bad taste sharing the title with Weber.

Mick Allen 7 years, 2 months ago

Liberace's envy of Self is palpable,just like his employer's envy of KU. Even after Self states that Squeaky should have been COY, the little man feels it necessary to take a shot. What goes round comes round.

JD Roth 7 years, 2 months ago

Who doesn't have an inferiority complex when compared to Self? The last 15 years, 13 conference titles and 2 second place finishes. I don't even think John Wooden matched that in a 15 year cycle. Weber should have kept his mouth shut, but make no mistake, he did a great job motivating this team and implementing the motion offense and finishing 14-4 in conference. Frank Martin just about ruined the Wildcats. Weber took over and did a great job.

JD Roth 7 years, 2 months ago

Correction, John Wooden did win 13 of 15 also. I stand corrected. Can Self make it 14 of 16 next season?

Tony Bandle 7 years, 2 months ago

Weber has "Self" envy in that he never really got credit at Illinois because he had Bill's players during his good seasons and his own players during the rest of his not-so-good Illinois career.

Remember, this is the chucklehead who held a mock funeral to bury the memory of Bill Self!!!

Ideally, we meet Kansas State in the Finals and wipe the floor with them for a triple victory, season sweep of the Kitty Litter Kats!!

phoggy_toast 7 years, 2 months ago

Hey Bruce and K-State nation,

Withey stated it best -

“Are they?” Withey said Monday when informed the Wildcats had scheduled a pep rally for Monday night. “We’re Kansas. We’re not going to do that.

All KU has done since your last conference title in 1977 is:

Win 2 National Championships Participate in 5 National Championship games Appear in 8 Final Fours 30 NCAA tournament appearances including a nation leading 23 consecutive Win 14 conference tournament championships 20 regular season championships ....and by the way we have current streak of 9 straight and counting!!!!!!

That sounds like one hell of a 5 hour energy commercial......what have you done in those 36 years between conference titles?

bad_dog 7 years, 2 months ago

Given your benchmarking, there must be a lot of "winners" buying & selling commemorative DVDs & t-shirts over in the little apple...

Sam Constance 7 years, 2 months ago

As opposed to someone who clearly takes such personal slight in the accomplishments of others.

That's what losers do.

MinorThreat 7 years, 2 months ago

I always thought B. Weber would be a great used car salesman. Like Bernie Mac in Transformers 1.

Kevin Huffman 7 years, 2 months ago

Might be some hope in the 2014 recruiting - at least in competing with UK.

Through the grapevine heard the talk of them likely landing No. 4 - PF Trey Lyles (from Indianapolis) & the thought is with already having signed Towns Jr. & then coupling that with Lyles, unlikely to go and get No. 1 J. Okafor (C). And if no Okafor, probably no Tyus Jones (No. 2 [PG]) - - - sounding like they'd target E. Mudiaye.

I'd seen us in the list of Jones's schools but not Oklafor's which is a curious thing with him being out of Chicago.

Having said all of this I've thought all along that those two were likely to go to Duke. A lot of rumors have been out there that J. Parker might even stick around for a 2nd year so that he could play 1 year w/ Okafor.

Alex Peekeaton 7 years, 2 months ago

Kentucky will land Lyles and huge favorite to land Mudiay per recruiting analyst Jerry Meyer, so the package deal of Okafor & Jones (and possibly Winslow) will be down to Michigan St., Duke, or Kansas.

JayHok 7 years, 2 months ago

Some good posts here. No disrespect to KSU fans it's their coach that planned this crazy thing. Credit to many KSU fans for staying away from this knowing it was not the right time to cut a net especially after a tie. Bad bad timing. Biggest problem. Bruce Weber doesn't give credit to anybody else anytime his team loses. The other problem is he is just such a Whiner. Many KSU fans have to be covering their ears. The whining and not giving credit to other teams goes completely against all the values KSU fans supposedly embrace through Snyder which supposedly has transferred to themselves. Snyder is always the first to compliment another coach, team or player. Always the last to whine about a referee in fact he doesn't because that's what losers do. Not hardheaded enough to rip down the goalposts and make it public when they tied for the big 12 championship. Weber just revealed who he really is.

Sam Constance 7 years, 2 months ago

Frank Martin was like Snyder in that respect.

It's funny--I was completely skeptical when they hired Martin and thought it was a ploy to keep from losing Michael Beasley with Bob Huggins. Then somewhere along the line, Coach Martin not only showed that he had some coaching chops (maybe not as good Xs and Os as Weber), but that he was a pretty stand-up human being. Always respectful of KU and what we've built here--I found myself as entertained by listening to Martin as I am by listening to Self.

It's really too bad, because I think in the long-run, KSU basketball is probably about at the same potential ceiling with Weber as they were with Martin, unless Weber figures out how to recruit to his needs. If he ever realizes that his best recruiting approach is to go after the types of tough guys KSU had on their roster this year, rather than after the blue-chippers, he could become a very dangerous coach.

ku_foaf 7 years, 2 months ago

Yep. I was sorry to see Frank go, he had shown he was definitely a good coach.

Weber has only shown he can win with a good coach's players.

JayHok 7 years, 2 months ago

Martin made them tough. I liked Martin too. Good analysis. Beasley was forced to talk later about some of the action going on that kept him a KSU. I didnt want to see Martin get hit but I do wonder how KSU never got hit after that. Probably three years later was too many years. All suspicions were confirmed about Beasley's remarkable decision to join with Huggins. It's not that fans necessarily want another team to get hit but it is nice to just know our suspicions were correct. Overnight KSU was a decent team again by hiring Huggins and allowing him to stock the roster. As we found out at the very end with Martin, he apparently was playing by some interesting rules as well that allowed some athletes to attend KSU who never would have given the place a second thought. I did like Martin though. I don't think he would he e been hit too hard of he would have stayed at KSU but you did get the feeling three or four of his players were being supplemented by that AAU coach which makes it all the more interesting when fans across the nation complain about AAU coaches being gifted by college coaches. Well then following the logic trail where did the money really come from. Martin had great points about money and athletes but that was probably his last stand. He wasn't backing away from that conversation and it might have opened him up too much about other AAu players he had signed from that pipeline.

Dee Shaw 7 years, 2 months ago

Not to get personal but I can't resist. Anyone else out there that can't stand how Bruce Webers voice sounds. Every time I hear that guy talk especially on the radio its like fingernails down the chalk board. It's this high pitch voice that is so annoying. Sorry just had to say that.

JD Roth 7 years, 2 months ago

You're not kidding. I caught a conversation midstream and was thinking to myself, who the heck is this talking.

Woody Cragg 7 years, 2 months ago

I said exactly the same on a thread last week. Voice reminds me of some squeaky, whiney old woman.Only thing I squelch faster than that is commentary on misery. Remember always...KSU may suck, but misery swallows...always!

JayHok 7 years, 2 months ago

It's Whiney. Everything kids get in trouble for in kindergarten.

Janella Williams 7 years, 2 months ago

... Said kal10386, with no picture. Again, 1/22, 59-55; 2/11, 83-62

JayHok 7 years, 2 months ago

Is kal110386 Bruce Weber? How weird would that be!

oddgirl 7 years, 2 months ago

just 3000 people? from the way K-State fans were jumping up and now about this on twitter, I would have expected that building to be packed.

JayHok 7 years, 2 months ago

I think most of them made a smart choice and understood this wasn't a good idea to attend. Kind of like rushing the court after beating TCU, not good publicity. Sure enough Weber made sure st least one very awkward thing happened the press could jump on.

bad_dog 7 years, 2 months ago

"Kind of like...", you know, an analogy?

JayHok 7 years, 2 months ago

Metaphorically speaking Weber did with his comments and decision to insist on KSU fans fill Bramage for a net cutting ceremony. Most KSU fans knew better, I have to give them credit.

JayHok 7 years, 2 months ago

FYI net cuttings are reserved for a spur of the moment thing. It's done after a home court victory that locks up a championship. When Weber lost two games to the co-champs he should have known better. This was just a very poor decision. Cheesy and wrong don't begin to describe it. That's why I have to give most KSU fans all the credit in the world to see this was not a wise ceremony. Weber promoted it like gangbusters and wanted a packed house. 90% of the KSU fanbase saw through the stupidity of this ceremony, for that I give them credit. Weber. That's another story. If it was up to him he could jump into Hoiberg's body and give a press conference. The guy is seriously a squirrel in so many ways.

Sally Presson 7 years, 2 months ago

I'm sick to death of hearing about our 3 losses in a row, good grief, they more than made up for those losses and have given us a heck of a year!!! Let's encourage instead of making stupid wise cracks, these boys have made us proud in so many ways, we have a heck of a team and they are going to show you negative people what the Jayhawks can and will do at the Big 12 tournament and the NCAA tournament!!! Everyone of our players have a very strong and good character, I just hope the team knows how much they mean to all the Jayhawk fans.

Rock Chalk guys!!! Have a great tournament!!!

JD Roth 7 years, 2 months ago

The three game losing streak could have sunk the Jayhawks, but they responded with seven straight wins before a loss at Baylor. Time for a nine game winning streak to finish it off with another National Title.

Phognatic 7 years, 2 months ago

We are not infallible, but the behavior out of this year's team makes me proud. First EJ apologizes on national TV for an ill advised end-of-the game dunk and now these "win like you've been there" comments from Bill and our boys are refreshing.

K-State, I get it. You have so little to hang your cowboy at on. First basketball league title in 35 years? Frank Martin's recruits are going to be gone soon, so it's all down hill from here with Webs, so you think lets celebrate like hell as if we actually won the league. Sorry, tying us in a year we beat you twice, rules be damned, you didn't win the title. I still have no ill will towards K-State like Mizzou, but this is classic, blind sad K-State enthusiasm.

Phognatic 7 years, 2 months ago

No bitterness. Wife and friends are wildcats, meow. I'm always amused (and impressed) with their blind enthusiasm. From one of my wildcat friends, "Big12 football and basketball champions. Elite." Really? Something to be proud of? Yes. Elite? No. Bill Self's 10 year KU resume...elite. I just get a little exhausted by the powercat purple-colored glasses and their unilateral hatred of KU. (Sounds like you may be one of these haters?)

ksjayhawk81 7 years, 2 months ago

I agree with you phognatic! As a KU fan in Manhattan it's getting crazy with all the title town talk! Please do it more than once and don't share the title then they can talk crap.

justinryman 7 years, 2 months ago

Beat KU just once and the Title is KSU's.

Talk about not getting it done.

But good luck

nuleafjhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

Beat KU once and we wouldn't be having it either.

In fact, stay on your own ignorant web site and we wouldn't be having it either.

'Cause we sure as hell aren't on yours.

stinkybulldog 7 years, 2 months ago

Bruce Weber is the squirrliest looking dude I've ever seen. I bet he laughs like Eric Gordon from Billy Madison.

jgkojak 7 years, 2 months ago

This idea that it sucks is ridiculous.

Had we lost to Baylor on Monday and beat Texas Tech on Saturday we'd be celebrating. That's silly.

We know darn well what game (TCU) we should have won... we also know darn well that we had a game (ISU) that we should have lost. Its sports Karma.

We also know that your team usually loses in the Tourney by the method of most of your in-season losses. So expect us to be flat offensively and go on a 7 minute scoring drought in the Sweet 16.

bad_dog 7 years, 2 months ago

That's what you are given when enrolling at Lansing Penitentiary Prep.

Janella Williams 7 years, 2 months ago

Again, ... Said kal10386, with no picture. Again, 1/22, 59-55; 2/11, 83-62

JayHawkFanToo 7 years, 2 months ago

This is what Soren Petro posted about voting for HC Self ad Coach of the Year:

"I’ve already taken e-mails from KSU fans about my belief that you need to win the conference to win the coach of the year award stance and I’m sure there are many more to come after my choice of Bill Self. I have no problem with Bruce Weber winning the Big XII award or if he ends up winning the AP award as well once the ballots are tallied (I expect him to win it).

For me, it came down to how much of the coaching on the Kansas St. team was done by Weber and how much was done by Frank Martin? What percentage of the credit goes to Frank Martin for coaching the toughness in the Cats is debatable, what is not debatable is that Weber benefitted from it (not to mention almost every minute was played by Martin’s recruits).

In Lawrence, the entire team was assembled and coached for their entire college career by Bill Self. For that reason I gave the nod to Self. Had Travis Ford tied for the conference championship, I would have given the award to him."

He makes a lot of sense.

Tony Bandle 7 years, 2 months ago

I love the header kinds of tells the whole story. Kansas State puts together a bogus net cutting ceremony days after their default crown and Kansas, casually puts the trophy on a table which appears to be in a day care center with no fanfare or ta-doo.


Thank God I didn't go to K-State's Architectural School....... i would have become the best silo designer in the St.Louis area!!!

Jack Wilson 7 years, 2 months ago

Maybe I look at this the wrong way -- many here are essentially making fun of KSU for having a pep rally. Really? Suppose we tied for the Big 12 football title. You think Weis might have a few folks to Memorial Stadium? It might be a full weekend pep rally/party. KSU hadn't won a title for 34 or so years. No reason for us to look down our noses at them for it. It does us no good to engage in that -- we are an elite program. We play at a different level, and have expectations at a different level. Just fact. Conference titles are expected. Top 10s are expected. It's a different life. It's like the guy that gets promoted from assistant manager at Taco Bell to manager. His family should celebrate. But the orthopedic surgeon shouldn't mock the celebration, right? Different worlds. I think it demeans us to mock their celebration.

And I posted this the other day: I'm sorry, you folks that don't think Weber is COY really have your blinders on. KSU's talent isn't near our talent. No players that will get drafted and none that will play in the NBA. They weren't ranked in the top 25 in the preseason, and they were picked to finish 5th in the Big 12. Not only that, but coming in and taking over someone else's players is a huge challenge. To fend off transfers or other issues is a big deal.

We have two sure fire NBA players and and 4 senior starters that have been in Self's system for a number of years (3 of them).

Perhaps Weber can't recruit, but he sure as heck can coach. Self did a great job -- yes. But Weber's was simply more impressive in just looking at this season. That's all. Now, when we win it next season replacing all 5 starters, it will be a diferent discussion of course.

This was truly the best coaching job in the Big 12. If you can't recognize it, then you really are viewing life through crimson and blue colored glasses, and without any real objectivity.

Just my opinion.

Phognatic 7 years, 2 months ago

Agreed about the KU football scenario, but the difference I would claim is that a majority of KU fans do not carry a "little man" complex and ill will against KSU but for the most part that sentiment is not shared by K-Staters toward their in-state brethren. And your taco bell manager, ortho reference probably doesn't help matters. (but can't say I disagree.) We are their Mizzou, which I wish wasn't the case.

Kurt Eskilson 7 years, 2 months ago

Well put, HEM. Hadn't thought of things that way.

JayHok 7 years, 2 months ago

This is not about KSU fans, most of them stayed away after Weber begged them to fill Bramalage. This is about Weber. But your point is taken, move on. Self is like an elephant I don't think he'll forget Weber's backhanded attack at a net cutting ceremony. If you're in Self's shoes tell me you're not totally offended after you tried to be part of a united big 12 front for this man who said so many rude things about Self to Self's recruits and the press at Illinois.

justinryman 7 years, 2 months ago

But KU footballs got it back in 2007 and '08.

The shirts read, "KU Football. A tradition since September."

Sam Constance 7 years, 2 months ago

I agree that there's no need to make fun of KSU for celebrating a title in basketball after almost 40 years. I would be eager to do the same for football, even if we shared the title after having been defeated by KSU. There is no shame in enjoying your team's accomplishment.

However, I don't buy the notion that Weber unequivocally had a better coaching year than Self. It's contradictory to suggest that there is an objective, rational answer to a question that is inherently subjective. Weber was surely deserving, but so was Self.

Weber has going in his favor that he had less raw talent, lower expectations and the fact that he was coaching a team full of someone else's players. He never had to deal with a

Self has going in his favor that he beat the next best candidate twice, in going away fashion and that he had to pull his team out of a pretty vicious looking funk mid-season.

Who is to say which is more impressive? Well, obviously the voters had to, and did. But my point is that there is no obvious "non blinders" answer.

ParisHawk 7 years, 2 months ago

Thanks for saying what I thought and letting me get by with simply agreeing.

Let me just add that I'm getting tired of all the silo jokes. Farming is an extremely old and distinguished profession that is very important to Kansas and to the country where I now live. Sneer at agriculture in France at your peril!

The Williams Fund coffers are filled thanks to wheat farm income.

Michael Bratisax 7 years, 2 months ago

We were Co-Conference Champions in 1968... Weren't you there for the celebration?

Kevin Jenkins 7 years, 2 months ago

No celabrations is right. Funny article that changed into a Webber bashing, okay. I am more interested in that our team can just put away this sharing business and hoist the trophy into the air, both the Big 12 and national championship. Just get your heads in the right place and show which part of the State rules..Yes our coached recruited our players and should know them better. So lets GO and show the kittes who we are and who they are. ROCK EM.

joeloveshawks 7 years, 2 months ago

Why is this Kal guy posting on a KU board? Do any KU fans do this on other sites? I really hope not.

jaybate 7 years, 2 months ago


A hot new thriller in which 22rd Century cyborgs trained to run the motion offense time travel to the present to dominate D1 basketball with illegal screens.

The cyborg teams are Duke, K-State, ISU and others. Some run the motion offense with a post, while others run the open post motion offense.

See sliding ball screens, drive blocking screens, feet chopping screens, and many more.

Just as the referees cannot call more than 35 fouls in a game, they also cannot call more than 3 moving screen violations. So: clever coaches coach their cyborgs to set moving screens on every play.

A few hold outs fight to play the game the right way.

But their leader warns: "Its what they do. Its all they do. And they absolutely will not stop setting moving screens until you start drive blocking them on their cuts and injuring them!"

WETSUhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

Jaybate; thank you for your seeing the big picture, if these puppet officials are not going to officiate according to the rules, then let’s change the rules so everyone plays the same game.

Acting classes are now required by most University’s basketball players. How to flop, How to shoot a three point attempt to draw a foul, as well as the throw head back when cut off ( a play that OSU guards do tremendously, when a big defender jumps in front of them and a slight contact is made they snap their heads back, drawing a foul on the defenders). In the future accidental/incidental bone breaking contact will be taught. How to trip over a defenders leg and take out an ACL of the opposing team will be the final exam.

jaybate 7 years, 2 months ago


First, thanks for noticing and posting.

Second, Jay Bilas spoke out on some of this and not one sports journalist, or broadcaster, coach, or AD, or Chancellor that I have seen so far joined Bilas in speaking out. Bilas was left with his rear hanging out by colleagues too intimidated to speak up with him.

Third, sports broadcasters and journalists apparently do not speak up, because they perhaps believe the sports-media-gaming complex would marginalize them for doing so.

Fourth, coaches, ADs, Chancellors, NCAA, and officials apparently are afraid of offending the TV-gaming people that let the contracts for the big bucks (note also: pehaps the same people that pass blessing on realignment plans that will yield even bigger bucks).

Fifth, coaches apparently don't speak out, because they are afraid of being labeled noncooperatives and so denied media hype, shoe contract extensions,talent access and so job security.

Sixth, clearly, its going to keep getting worse. All a coach has to do is go down the list of rules violations and find the next rule violation that has not yet begun to be massively violated and begin doing so. Or one can return to the list of rules violations already being massively violated and spike the degree of violation. So long as the officials are ordered to keep the games in the broadcast windows, any and all rule violations will be used in the strategy of massive rules violations.

Seventh, there are many possible solutions to the problem of strategic rules violations. For example, one could simply eliminate clock stoppages. Play stops for fouls and time outs and so on, but the clock continues running. Game length specifically and unvaryingly equals the length of the broadcast window; then the refs are ordered to strictly enforce all rules. Ties are allowed, or broken by the first team to make a free throw. I like this one best. But there are lots of other ways, too.

Armen Kurdian 7 years, 2 months ago

Great! We have to share a title with K-State when it should have been our own. We suck! And HCBS sucks! And March Madness sucks! And the team sucks, and KU sucks, and the guy who sells pop on the second deck north side named Frank sucks, and puppies suck...

I'm trying out for the next D&D movie as a troll. How'm I doing?

Janet Olin 7 years, 2 months ago

C'mon, Jayhawk fans! In response to someone saying in Nov. KU, would go 14-4 in the league and be champion, almost every fan would say, "Hell, yeah!" Yes, coaches/players/fans are disappointed they didn't win it outright. Taking the low-key approach will hopefully keep the players focused for the tournaments (Big 12 and NCAA) Don't criticize KSU for celebrating its first league title in many years. We would be celebrating too if roles were reversed. Grow up and be happy for the players and their success.

JayHok 7 years, 2 months ago

Nobody is criticizing KSU. It's Weber.

JayHok 7 years, 2 months ago

Baylor forged the tie. Bruce Wener claims the title all to himself citing referee malfunction. Self is at home right now scouring the tape of Weber's ten different two point wins this year to find a play that hurt the losing team and would have turned the losing team into winners had the call not happened.

JayHok 7 years, 2 months ago

Thank you. If Self was doing that I think we'd all be very concerned. It does seem Bruce Weiner spends some time doing this as much as he complains about officiating.

kay_you 7 years, 2 months ago

Did ou celebrate their conference football title?

JayHok 7 years, 2 months ago

Did OU win the big 12 in football last year?

Jeff Coffman 7 years, 2 months ago

Bruce Weber has issues: This year, they really didn't have a team, and had to run a four guard set. This counteracts height with speed. Usually, teams if they are good they can counteract this, by pounding inside and getting points. For KU, this year it actually plays into their strength. It allowed Naadir to run point, EJ to the 2, McL to the 3, Rel to the 4, and Withey of course at the 5. It allows matchup improvements for our entire team.

It seems to me to be a gimmick and typically has not gone well for the teams that face teams in the tournament. I can think of Duke and Missouri that both were running the 4 guard set last year. Duke because of a late injury and Missouri because they couldn't get forwards to go to school there (but I'm still surprised they get anyone to go there).

This year I think it will be interesting to see both KSU and UNC who are both running 4 guard sets to see how they do. I really think that it is a gimmick that with the right coaching can be exploited.

jaybate 7 years, 2 months ago

"Its the Moving Screening, Stupid"

Part 1

First, jayhawkrulz, I think you are very sharp and I am not calling you stupid here. For fun and emphasis, I am recycling Democratic political strategist James Carville's famous phrase to his staff in the first Bill Clinton Presidential campaign: "Its the economy, stupid."

Its the moving screening, stupid.

The stupid refers to all of us, the royal and loyal we, that have been IMHO overlooking the centrality of moving screening to what all teams have been doing to get the unfair advantage.

In the era of the moving screen, the motion offense maybe reascending to kingly status.

The four and five guard sets you refer to are essentially motion offenses.

But even teams with centers and power forwards, like Duke, are flourishing running the motion offense with posts.

And Roy has long run the motion offense with posts. This season he has elected to play 4 guard motion.

Bob Huggins and Frank Martin have long run a distinct variation of the motion offense.

Motion offenses are essentially lots of ball screening and off ball screening.

The motion offense has never left us, as I've indicated, but it is increasingly successful IMHO, because the coaches have discovered that the referees will only call a few moving screen violations. So: the game now is to set moving screens all of the time, as many as possible.

Self has countered with moving screens, or what I have been calling soft screens, or sliding screens, in his spread high low sets that he uses to create spaces for his guys to impact from.

But the idea of the high low set is to play an in-out, ball reversal game that relies much less on screening, and instead expands and contracts the defense, followed by rapid ball reversal to create spaces for guys to make impact plays in.

Motion offenses actually try to create congestion with screening that guy can squirt out of to get open looks.

Note: Self's play book has a thousand plays or so, and his offense is really a high low set with variations of ball screening, and variations of pick and roll, and variations of motion screening with curls, flairs and cuts. But the spine of the offense is high low, which this year he has spread out some more, because of how skinny this team is, i.e., how ill suited it is to fighting to stay on spots and setting hard screens. The result is that you see KU intermittently doing some of what motion offenses are doing, what dribble drive offenses are doing, bits of the triangle, and shizz they probably just make up on the spot given the abilities of certain guys.

jaybate 7 years, 2 months ago

Part 2

But the general idea of the motion offense is to just keep screening and screening until you get a guy an open look, rather than trying to create spaces to make plays in, as is the case with Self's high low system.

Anyway, in a game where refs are not calling moving screens, a motion offense creates more opportunities to create moving screens that will not be called that does a high low offense, unless Self orders his players into their variations with more screening. Self can do this, of course, but he recruits and trains guys that have skills and abilities to impact in the high low, and then teaches them the screening sets as situational tactics. It is suboptimal for KU to play the screening game nonstop.

Coaches that run the motion full time, recruit and train players to play this screening game full time.

What could be better for a motion offense than being allowed to run moving screens? Not much that I can think of.

I believe this advantage of the motion offense is why we are seeing a lot of teams running motion offenses performing above expectations this season.

Every team is cheating like hell on moving screens regardless of what offense they are running, but the motion offense is particularly suited to cheat with in this situation.

And cheating with moving screening is more appealing that cheating with 60 fouls in a game where the refs can only call 35, because the refs call almost no moving screens (certainly no where near 35), and no foul and foul shot results, when moving screens are called. The ball just changes possession.

I also think the 4 and 5 guard offenses are flourishing, because of moving screening. All the moving screening creates lots of looks at the trey stripe that you don't have to be tall to capitalize on. The moving screening on the cuts also creates looks you don't have to be tall to capitalize on, if you can use a trey shooter at the 4, or 5, to drag a Jeff Withey away from the basket.

Summary: you are right that a good, traditional-sized team with top athletes playing well (i.e., disrupting, not turning it over, and shooting well) can probably beat 4-5 guard offenses other things equal. But as moving screening becomes more and more sophisticated and frequent, and a team can put a lot of good trey shooters on the floor, the odds increase sharply of a 4-5 guard offenses being able to play a traditional team evenly, unless it resorts to massive moving screening, too.

JD Roth 7 years, 2 months ago

Impressive indeed, better than Snyder's 17-4 record against KU football.

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