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Men's Basketball

Wednesday, March 6, 2013

Keegan

Opinion: Separate sports, politics

By Tom Keegan

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It wasn’t enough for university presidents and chancellors to mess up college sports — thanks to the Knight Commission — now the politicians want their bottles of spray paint.

Now that Kansas state legislators introduced a bill that would require Kansas and Wichita State to play basketball against each other, why stop there? Why not just stick their noses in all sorts of sports issues.

Before considering other bills that could be introduced to make the state’s sports world a better place, consider what a man who played basketball for both WSU and Kansas thinks of politicians trying to legislate college basketball schedules.

“Please tell me that the legislature has more important things to worry about than whether two teams play a few basketball games,” Greg Dreiling wrote to me in a LinkedIn exchange I initiated. “If the schools cannot decide how to get together for a game of hoops, then I am sure there is nothing that the state government can do to move along the most pressing issue of this generation.”

Amen.

But as long as the politicians want to run sports, here are a few suggestions for more sensible bills:

  1. Ban all coaches and announcers from using the phrase “score the basketball.” What else do you think the players are trying to score? Dates? Points with professors?

  2. Ban all high schools from holding team banquets days before playing the most important game of the season. Free State had its football feast days before getting blown out by Shawnee Mission West, a sour note on which to end a spectacular season. The last thing a group of teenagers needs to hear when coaches are filling one ear with constructive criticism is to have the other filled with praise for their super accomplishments. Horrible timing.

  3. Forbid from ever typing on a computer again any parent who reacts to his son not making a high-enough level team by staging a widespread, multi-year, gutless, anonymous smear campaign behind the armor of screen names and e-mail addresses.

  4. Make it illegal for any college basketball coach to double as an actor performing a lead role in an HBO series. Really, does KU assistant basketball coach Joe Dooley think he’s fooling anybody by using the stage name Steve Buscemi when portraying Nucky Thompson in smash hit “Boardwalk Empire”?

  5. Change the term “technical foul” to “Melvin” for anyone who displays outrageously excessive, ill-aimed anger on a basketball court. This would lead to announcers cautioning, “He had better be careful. He already has one Melvin tonight. One more Melvin and he’ll be ejected.”

  6. Require any cheapskate who doesn’t buy the house a drink after he makes a hole-in-one not only to return all prizes, but give up the game of golf for life.

That should be enough to keep our elected officials so busy they won’t even notice if KU and WSU happen to face each other later this month in the NCAA Tournament, where KU doesn’t have any say in scheduling opponents.

Comments

WETSUhawk 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Love the "Melvin" rule.

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jackdavid 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Oh, the list could go on ad infinitum > and let's hope it does. And just think of the possibilities if one would expand the subjects to " politicians and (and, again, ad infinitum) topics. WHY! CAN YOU JUST IMAGINE (apologies to Arlo G.) > Shelves filled with books......!!

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syceda 2 months, 2 weeks ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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Cairo_Jayhawk 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Just couldn't help throwing in politics... Could you?

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jhwksrock 2 months, 2 weeks ago

TK sort of started it. As soon as I started reading the article I thought, "oh crud". I agree that the politics on here get annoying at times.

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Cairo_Jayhawk 2 months, 2 weeks ago

As a person who works in the field of economics and politics, I care deeply and have very strong political opinions. As a sports fan, if President Bush or Obama are in the White House when the Hawk meet the president after the National Championship, I am thrilled and honored. When Governor Sebelius or Brownback take time to watch a Kansas sporting event, I am honored.

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tundrahok 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Would you be equally honored if the governor were required by law to attend that Kansas sporting event?

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iamakufan 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Taking time to attend or watch a game is one thing. Mandating that two teams play each other is way outside the responsibility of any politician. The only way I'd agree with a mandated game is if all tickets to that game were provided for free out of the politician's personal fortunes. Not our tax money but their personal fortunes. If they mandate it they should pay for it. And they should have no say in who gets those tickets.

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Cairo_Jayhawk 2 months, 2 weeks ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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PhearThePhog 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Wouldn't have been mentioned if THEY would keep their focus on what we hired them to do. And by the way, never have really understood why teams go visit the president after winning a championship? Oh yeah, it's politics and it gives the president photo ops.

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jhwksrock 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Which is what i was hoping people would get out of the article. Politics are too devise these days, and I would rather focus on our shared love of KU. Rock chalk!

1

Cairo_Jayhawk 2 months, 1 week ago

How did my comment get removed? I've seen far worse things on the site.

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April13 2 months, 2 weeks ago

There is no rivalry, and having some dip from Wichita try to force one on us is the wrong way to go.

KU has achieved an amazing level of excellence on the court and in the classroom. KU basketball and K-State football have done more for the image of this backwater state than any other single entities in Kansas. Amazingly, they've done it without some goof state rep telling them how to do it.

Just because you want something doesn't mean you should be able to legislate it.

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April13 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Also, Tom, please have the following phrase forever removed from athletics:

Eye Test.

Thank you.

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jhawk7782 2 months, 2 weeks ago

While were on it...drop the phrase "playing in space". What's up with that? Isn't everything technically "in space"?

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AtlJaybird 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Ironic that an article about not mixing politics and sports is virtually guaranteed to result in that exact phenomenon. Some folks simply cannot resist the temptation.

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kellerman411 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Do what now?

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FSJayhawk 2 months, 2 weeks ago

This is just a distraction being caused hoping to draw attention from the bad education legislation that is being pushed through the house and senate at lightning speed.

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nuleafjhawk 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Opinion: Separate EVERYTHING, politics

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wrwlumpy 2 months, 2 weeks ago

http://www.kshb.com/dpp/sports/jacks_smack/jacks-smack-its-time-to-play-the-bracket-game

Jack Harry is back - "KU does not deserve a #1 seed"! Just like ranking us 5th in the league the year we were national champs. Thanks for doing this for us again.

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Phoghorn 2 months, 2 weeks ago

He just can't let us go...

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didjabuti 2 months, 2 weeks ago

I'm just upset that he thinks the Chiefs and Royals are about to become legitimate. Because now I know it's very unlikely to happen. Curse you Jack Harry! Seriously, how many times can someone be wrong before they stop talking?
At the same time, I think this means we just locked up a 1 seed.

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archercc 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Id also like to add one law to that list. Make it so if CBS ever cuts away from a game involving a highly ranked Kansas team to show the opening of two scrubs that arent going to dance that the executives must be painted in hot tar, coated in ostrich feathers and thrown into the sea.

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Phoghorn 2 months, 2 weeks ago

This comment was removed by the politicians for violation of the scheduling agreement.

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OakvilleJHawk 2 months, 2 weeks ago

The term "politician" has gained the same connotation as such meaningful phrases as "Your home has a brown recluse spider infestation.", "Clean up on aisle two", " Mommy, Jimmy just threw up in the backseat.", "This milk has chunks in it.", "I'm a Missouri Antler.", "Quantrill was a great American.", "And your anouncers for tonight's game, Dick Vitale and Billy Packer.", "Projectile Vomitting.", " Hi, I'm Andy Dick..I'm your new roommate."and, finally, "Where's my pet snake??".

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kellerman411 2 months, 2 weeks ago

This literally was the funniest post I have ever read on KUsports.

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raprichard 2 months, 2 weeks ago

I laughed so hard I started coughing. You have to put a warning on these, Oakville.

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KGphoto 2 months, 2 weeks ago

What? No JB? Here, I got it.

PHOF!

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jgkojak 2 months, 2 weeks ago

I think KU and WSU should play... because it would be good for KU marketing. I don't know why they think its OK to give Wichita area fans the shaft.

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dylans 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Because KU can make more money playing at home and WSU wants a home and home series. If KU has to travel in the non-conference then it needs to be somewhere of substance ie. Ohio State.

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WETSUhawk 2 months, 2 weeks ago

How about play it at a neutral court that's equal distance to both schools. Let's see, that would have to be at a maybe Manhattan maybe.

Oh wait, that's the Jayhawk's practice court.

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jhawkrulz 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Marketing to whom?

There are probably more graduates in Dallas, Chicago, Florida, NY, LA, etc, then in Wichita. Wichita has a two hour drive to see a game (or under if you go to OSU/KU or KU/KSU on the road). I'd rather them market to large talent areas then to Wichita.

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texashawk10 2 months, 2 weeks ago

I'm gonna keep beating this dead horse. UTEP, Bucknell, Bradley, Northern Iowa, and VCU are why KU should play games against WSU in Lawrence and Wichita. When KU is in the tournament, KU generally has 3 fan bases cheering against it because everybody wants to see the superpowers lose in the NCAA tournament so playing in a hostile environment would be good for KU.

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texashawk10 2 months, 2 weeks ago

And Hawkoverseas, mid majors of this caliber tend to play with undersized, perimeter based offenses that historically have given Bill Self all kinds of fits. If playing a couple of teams that play that style instead of crappy low majors helps KU out come March, I'm all for it. If you can't follow the logic that the best way to improve against a style of play that you struggle against is play against it more, then don't bitch when KU gets bounced by mid majors in the future.

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jhawk7782 2 months, 2 weeks ago

I too would like to see KU and Wichita State play. I would enjoy it and I think most people in Kansas would like to see it but that needs to be decided by the athletic directors and chancellors not the state legislators.

Also, not sure that playing every year would be in either schools best interest. Hard to develop a rivalry and playing every year would end up being more one-sided than playing Kansas State.

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carolinajay 2 months, 2 weeks ago

If this passes, how many annual beatings would WSU absorb before they will wish that it had never, ever been brought up.

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KGphoto 2 months, 2 weeks ago

“Score the basketball” is redundant for sure. Strangely though, if my team is winning it doesn’t bother me as much. I think of it as conservative old-school talk. Sort of a neat and thorough explanation. Not so much if we are getting blown out. At that point I’m screaming at the old fart to shut up and get with the times.

On the subject of old-school basketball banter, the other day I was re-watching parts of an old game (1993), and a shot danced around the rim for an unusually long time before it finally went in. The “older” announcer: “That one took a victory lap before it went down!” : D . Never heard that one.

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wissoxfan83 2 months, 2 weeks ago

They used to say "Tickled the twine for two".

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jaybate 2 months, 2 weeks ago

KG, I was quite annoyed by "score the basketball" for awhile. I too thought it redundant in the sense that "he scores" communicates the act and result of shooting.

But...as I try to do when a new usage comes along, I try to analyse it to see if its fundamentally bad English, or just too new to be comfortable to mind and ear.

Here is how I came to conclude that it is not redundant.

Example: Shoot the ball!

This is a solid declarative, exclamatory sentence with an implied subject of "You." It is a command to a player to take a shot at the basket.

Example: Score the ball!

This doesn't seem sound English at first, but "score" is a transitive verb, as well as a noun, so this strange-sounding sentence to our ears is, nevertheless, a declarative, exclamatory sentence commanding a player not just to shoot, but to score.

I suspect "score the ball" started being used to emphasize to players that we are not here just to shoot the ball, but to score it.

I suspect the origins of its usage track to USA football and basketball, which have long used the phrase "he scored a touchdown" and "he scored a basket."

And herein lies why it sounds so strangely to our ears.

"He scored a basket" is what our ears expect.

"He scored a ball" sounds wrong, because it violates our logical expectation regarding the meaning of "score" from past tendency of usage of "he scores a basket," in which the basket is a two point score, into "he scores the ball" in which score refers to the act of shooting and the ball going in.

So: though "score the ball" continues to sound irritating to my ear, I am inclined to say it is proper usage.

Maybe someone closer to their grammar education than I now am can parse this issue more definitively than I can. If so, I am all ears.

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JayHawkFanToo 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Why does the legislature wants to force KU to play WSU and not KSU? If they want KU to play WSU it would only be fair to force KSU to play them as well.
I don't believe this law would be constitutional, first because of the fairness issue, second because the controlling authority over the universities is the Board of Regents, and third because the basketball program at KU is not only self-sufficient but provides income that support a number of other sports programs so very little state money is spent.

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DanR 2 months, 2 weeks ago

I'm pretty sure the legislation requires K-State to play Wichita State too. Double down on stupid. The original plan was to strip KU's state funding if KU refused--that idea didn't go over very well either.

It seems safe to assume that Senator O'Donnell (R-Wichita) is not a genius.

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bobku1967 2 months, 2 weeks ago

I think the definition of not a genius is a Senator from Kansas.

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WindmillGIANT 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Political talk on sports message boards: I understand the sentiment of keeping politics/religion out of sports talk. Obviously political talk, whether thoughtful or ranting, can be obnoxious, especially when it is ranting from a view point you disagree with. On the other hand, one of the redeeming values of sports, which is nothing but a form of entertainment, is that it brings many different people together in conversation and that often,sports are either directly connected to political and cultural issues or reflect those issues indirectly. There's a time and place for everything and maybe this kind of message board is neither the time and place.

But I also don't agree, that refusing to allow political discussion on a sports page is a more "mature" attitude. The only reason it's problematic, is because many of us aren't mature enough or informed enough to have a productive debate over important issues. The dictum to not mix politics with sports is really just a platitude thrown out to defend ourselves against the exhaustion we feel when faced with seemingly intractable arguments. In a way, it's to silence the stupid and obnoxious, sure, but also, it's to excuse ourselves from having to test our own positions. It's a defense against our collective sense of futility when faced with our collective problems.

All the time I hear praise heaped on the democratic potential of the digital age: the internet bringing everyone together, fostering discussion, and rapidly disseminating information. Yet, people use it almost exclusively for shallow entertainment and people who use it to participate in democracy often end up self-segregating into political/religious enclaves. Sports then remains one of the large open public spaces where everyone gathers. This is why we want to protect it from partisan fighting, yet, this is also lost potential. How many other large-scale, diverse and open venues are there for people to practice democracy - the negotiation of ideas and self-governance?

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wrwlumpy 2 months, 2 weeks ago

This reminds me of Brian Baldinger when he compared Michael Strahan's effect on his team to Sarah Palin's affect on the Republican party.

Countdown: Worst Person Sept. 8, 2008 by heathr456

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GabrielMichael 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Here is a crazy idea... Lets make sure our government abides by the Constitution!

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dman_7899 2 months, 2 weeks ago

I say we let the legislators pass the bill so wsu and KU play each other for two years, let WSU get their "aces" handed to them and then terminate the bill just so Wichitans can shut the h€|| up! (Coming from a Wichitan)

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Borijays 2 months, 2 weeks ago

I am upset I won't get my 2 minutes back it took me to read this piece. It was among the less thoughtful pieces I have read. Just awful.

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bad_dog 2 months, 2 weeks ago

And then you compounded your error by commenting on the very thing that allegedly wasted your time. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice..."

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jaybate 2 months, 2 weeks ago

I love hoops, politics, international relations, Business, economics, religion, art and the application strategy through infrastructure to shape all the fields. And while I don't love corruption, it crazy to keep corruption out of any model of what goes on. I prefer them all together, because in reality they are all together--commingled--at the hog trough together--rooting for money together. And to have a useful insight into what goes on you usually have to include it all grasp what goes on with useful accuracy. I understand why those like to compartmentalize. They just want some entertainment. But to really understand the game, where its been, and where its going, you've got to consider all of to get a useful model and insightful analysis.

Count me out for compartmentalization. Leaving out drivers is the root of most error in analysis.

Connect the dots.

Collect more dots.

Connect more dots.

Drop out those that lack significance, only after you are good and damned sure they lack significance.

Assume as little as possible.

Keep the assumptions explicit.

Be data inclusive.

Infer as much as possible, so that new data can be collected to refute or deny.

Hypothesize. Don't theorize.

Any hypothesis with logic and data that triggers charges of conspiracy theory is almost always on the right track, though it may still be a long way from being accurately hypothesized.

Always follow where logic and data lead, especially to what seems most outrageous.

Question all the assumptions all the time, especially the one longest held.

Anything worth discovering is always ignored first, then doubted, then derided, then scorned, before being assumed as obviously right.

Distrust the motivations of anyone that wants to steer you away from anything really new and interesting.

Have a great day!

:-)

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bobbysfissure 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Why is it that people who support small government are the first to butt into everyone's business, and in the case of women this can be taken literally. They get a little power and then they go marauding into what should be other peoples privacy to force others to their points of view. The religionists are the worst as they think they talk to god and that he/she/it has asked them to tell the rest what to do. It is very difficult to think about sports when the major power players are doing so little to alleviate the suffering of humanity and think only of making money and the next election. Making money and making sense are mutually exclusive. This truth is being demonstrated daily from nuclear waste to the destruction of our once pristine environment. If Humanity and it's leaders do not start making sense it will be curtains for all.

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Phoghorn 2 months, 2 weeks ago

<-------------- The LJW site is back thataway if you want to go off on a political rant.

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bobbysfissure 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Phoghorn: Let's keep it simple. Catch ball, dribble ball, pass ball, put ball in the basket. Keep other team from doing the same. I enjoy reading the comments on here and very occasionally I like to write something. I am 77 and was a freshman at KU with Wilt Chamberlain, however at my age I sometimes think of something I might wish to share with my friends on here which is a little broader than just basketball. I thought my comments can be related to what this article was about which has something to do with a dumb politician trying to tell us who we should play in basketball. I am sorry if I offended your compartmentalized mind. When you see my name in the future feel free to skip what I have to say.

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jaybate 2 months, 2 weeks ago

I appreciated your remarks, bfiss.

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Phoghorn 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Sorry if my response sounded a bit harsh. I guess I like to come to kusports.com to get away from politics, etc. The LJW message boards are full of political insults and namecalling, and I really don't like that. I guess, I have just developed a gag reflex in my fingertips when I see someone painting with a broad brush. Ie "religionists are some of the worst..." That really does not summarize my church at all.

Anyway, I did not mean to offend anyone, I just cringe when I come to a sports site and see political bantering. Peace.

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jaybate 2 months, 2 weeks ago

"Some Things That Might Be Banned"

Ban banning things that don't hurt anyone.

Ban teleflora gifts of all kinds.

Ban children dipping the ball tip of your Ban roll-on deodorant dispenser in beach sand.

Ban books advocating book banning.

Ban denial about the mental state of denial.

Ban telling women what can go on inside their wombs.

Ban off-shore tax havens.

Ban government using tax subsidies to help American companies move their jobs overseas.

Ban wearing telephone lineman spikes to bed during love making.

Ban torture, regardless of what euphemism a lawyer comes up with to describe it, especially state sponsored torture with state sponsored euphemisms.

Ban conditioning of habeas corpus.

Ban Banlon shirts.

Ban cellphone bans.

Ban all gambling with odds favoring the house.

Ban ear muffs made from buffalo chips.

Ban Mayor Bloomberg from banning large sugary drinks, or any other kinds of drinks, that are not as dangerous as being an Occupy Wall Street protester with an NYPD officer with a can full of pepper spray.

Ban genetic engineers crossing elephants with mice.

Ban Banning, California.

Ban overhyping some teams and underhyping others to create spreads based on false expectations.

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jayhawkintx1973 2 months, 2 weeks ago

In regards to using tax subsidies to move jobs overseas, that's not what it is. They were already going over seas. CUT THE TAX RATES SO THEY DON'T MOVE OVERSEAS. The foreign tax credit is so they don't get taxed twice on the same income in two different countries. That was the wrong approach. Cut the tax so they come back. Get rid of the unnecessary regulations that assume guilt without due process.

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jayhawkintx1973 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Yes, keep the politics out of it. How many times has Wichita State even tried to schedule Kansas in basketball?

Let me see,

Kansas playing at the Gardens in NY against Georgetown, Kentucky, Syracuse, Ohio State, Michigan State, or out in Vegas against Florida, or Wichita State.

I'll give you game against Kansas. You have to ask me nicely. Not DEMAND, ask me nicely.

Just don't ever include the name, "Bramlage" in your basketball arena.

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Speakeasy 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Kudos, Tom, on your call to ban the phrase, "Score the basketball." Literally, "score the basketball" means to carve notches in the basketball. The people that use the phrase are illiterate. They sound just plain dumb.

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