Kansas defeats West Virginia, 91-65

  • 1 p.m., March 2, 2013
  • Allen Fieldhouse, Lawrence, KS

Saturday, March 2, 2013

Make-up ball: Ben McLemore scores 36, leads KU over West Virginia

Kansas guard Ben McLemore slaps hands with KU fans following his 36-point effort, the most by a freshman since Danny Manning, following the Jayhawks' 91-65 win over West Virginia on Saturday, March 2, 2013 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas guard Ben McLemore slaps hands with KU fans following his 36-point effort, the most by a freshman since Danny Manning, following the Jayhawks' 91-65 win over West Virginia on Saturday, March 2, 2013 at Allen Fieldhouse.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self talks after win over WVU

Kansas coach Bill Self talks after his team's 91-65 victory over West Virginia on March 2, 2013.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Ben McLemore, Elijah Johnson, Jeff Withey

Kansas players Ben McLemore, Elijah Johnson and Jeff Withey talk to reporters following the Jayhawks' 91-65 victory over West Virginia on March 2, 2013.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

WVU coach Bob Huggins

West Virginia coach Bob Huggins talks after KU's 91-65 victory on March 2, 2013.

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Box score


A bad pass by Ben McLemore earned Kansas University’s freshman sensation a spot on the bench — and an earful from his coach — four minutes into the Jayhawks’ 91-65 rout of West Virginia on Saturday afternoon in Allen Fieldhouse.

“He knows he can’t feed the post that way,” Bill Self said of a dish into forward Kevin Young that turned into a turnover. “I took him out. I didn’t leave him out long, though. I think it had something to do with, ‘Hey wake up and play,’ more than anything.”

McLemore, who had two points at the time of his early exit, returned 2 1/2 minutes later. The 6-foot-5 guard from St. Louis erupted for 19 first-half points in staking KU to a 45-31 lead. He finished with a KU-freshman record 36 points off 12-of-15 shooting and 7-of-9 free throwing in just 30 minutes.

McLemore — he hit five of six threes — broke the old freshman scoring record of 35 points set by Danny Manning against Oklahoma State on March 2, 1985 — exactly 28 years to the day in Stillwater, Okla.

“I made a bad pass to Kevin. I messed up,” McLemore said of the early gaffe, which so upset his coach and may have signaled a lack of focus against the (13-16, 6-10) Mountaineers.

“I went back out there and had the opportunity to make up for it, which I did.”

McLemore, who had two of (25-4, 13-3) KU’s eight dunks, scored 13 points in a 21-6 run that turned a 16-9 deficit into a 30-22 lead. He scored seven points in a 14-3 surge that stretched a 22-21 deficit into a 35-25 advantage. And he had 10 points in a 19-2 run that upped a 51-41 lead to 70-43.

“After a while, Ben caught on fire. He’s still on fire,” said senior point guard Elijah Johnson, who dished 10 assists against four turnovers to go with 12 points.

McLemore scored his 35th and 36th points off a baseline jumper with 5:36 left. Self took him out for good at 5:21 and at that time was informed of his freshman scoring record by floor general Johnson.

“When coach told me to go get him, I figured I would send him to the bench in even better spirits,” Johnson said of McLemore, who also had seven rebounds, four assists, two turnovers and a steal.

“I honestly think Ben is a person that deserves to break the record out of anybody I have ever played with. I love this kid. I never tell him. I think he knows, though. I can honestly say I’ve learned a lot from him. He’s a hard worker. You would think he’s the worst player in the gym the way he approaches it every day. He’s always in a good mood, always trying to pump energy in the room. He’s just a good guy,” Johnson added.

McLemore thanked Johnson and the rest of his teammates for setting screens for him and feeding him the ball. He said he recognizes what an honor it is to surpass Manning, who was an assistant coach at KU during Ben’s red-shirt season and now is head coach at Tulsa.

“He’s a great player, one of the best to play at the University of Kansas,” McLemore said. “Just breaking the record and knowing I did something great for the university is just great. Right now I just want to enjoy this win with my teammates, enjoy that record with my teammates.”

As to how he knocked down 12 of 15 shots and passed his previous career high of 33 points set against Iowa State on Jan. 9, McLemore said: “It was going out there and feeling free and just shooting the ball.”

He also was motivated after watching Johnson burn Iowa State for 39 points on Monday in Ames, Iowa.

“He’s a great player and teammate. Seeing him do that just helped me try to be better as a player, try to create for myself, get myself open. It definitely inspired me,” McLemore said.

KU coach Self actually played in the game Manning scored 35. KU won, 88-79, in Stillwater, Okla.

“I played back line of a 2-3 zone. I think he got 20 on me, but not all 35,” former Oklahoma State point guard Self said.

McLemore’s scoring spree came on a day Jeff Withey fell one block short of the second triple-double of his career. Withey scored 14 points off 7-of-8 shooting with 10 rebounds and nine blocks.

“I was one away from 10 and I felt pretty good about that. Nine is a lot and I did a lot of work for that,” Withey said. “As long as we get the win, I’m usually happy. I help my teammates not have to work a lot on defense and let them worry about offense.”

Withey, Johnson, Travis Releford (six points, 2-of-8 shooting) and Kevin Young (six points, four assists, three blocks, two rebounds, two steals) will play the final home game of their KU careers on Monday against Texas Tech. Tip for Senior Night is 6 p.m. in Allen Fieldhouse.


Boouk 8 years, 7 months ago

Baylor had a huge meltdown down the stretch against KSU. At least KSU still has to play OSU in Stillwater.

jayhawkinATL 8 years, 7 months ago

Yep, Scotty Drew not looking to do us any favors.

kranny 8 years, 7 months ago

I thought by virtue of beating kstate twice ku would be outright champs if ku and kstate end with a tie

Chandler James 8 years, 7 months ago

no they will be co champs but ku would be the #1 seed in the big 12 tournament

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 7 months ago

Strange, I would have thought the tie break procedures used to determine post season tournament seedings would also apply to the regular season championship. and # 3Ai would indicate that if KU won out they would be the regular season champ. If they actually split their regular season series then they would be co champs.

Al Martin 8 years, 7 months ago

Boulder: Nope. If this were the case, at least one of our consecutive championships would not have happened, as we were tied, and ended up as the two seed in the tournament.

Allen Shepard 8 years, 7 months ago

Actually, no, because our co-championships didn't contain tie breakers because they were to Big 12 South teams who we only played once. Without balanced scheduling, no tie-breaks make sense.

The seeding issue is different because it can't be shared.

kay_you 8 years, 7 months ago

I don't know why the conference doesn't have a tie breaker when it comes to declaring a conference champion. Seems contrary to the whole point of athletic competition. If it's any consolation KSU was also co-football champ with OU. That TCU game really bites.

Michael Luby 8 years, 7 months ago

Yep, we can share. Its ok. Nothing is stopping us from a Big 12 record 9th straight but us.

John White 8 years, 7 months ago

I could not believe they blew that opportunity to at least go to OT. Terrible last two plays to end regulation for Baylor.

JD Roth 8 years, 7 months ago

That's Scott Drew for you, he's an idiot sore loser like Boeheim. Love to talk when they win, can't look the opposing coach in the eye during the handshake when they lose.

texashawk10 8 years, 7 months ago

Yes, Boeheim at least gets to the tournament just about every year unlike Drew who can only do it every other year despite usually having better talent than Boeheim.

GortHawker 8 years, 7 months ago

Boy that's no lie, Last nites Baylor, K-State game was a lesson how you can go from a sure OT game to a lose in one second, SD is a good recruiter but a lousy defensive coach.

Dirk Medema 8 years, 7 months ago

Is it really appropriate to single out the D part of the game?

Cole Hogan 8 years, 7 months ago

From 'Too Strong' to 'New Strong,' it's time to peak boys! Finish out number nine and lets get on to the madness! Rock Chalk! McLemore is the MAN!

Also...just found this website: How cool!

Marcia Parsons 8 years, 7 months ago

The article describing the first Iowa St game quotes an ISU player saying he fouled Ben on that banked 3 that put the game into overtime. If the refs had called it Ben would have gotten a free throw and the game would have been over--no overtime. I wonder why no one sent films of that to the Big12 office for investigation.

Dirk Medema 8 years, 7 months ago

The jumbo jet as a banner seems inappropriate.

I'm thinking it should be more along the lines of a air force/navy fighter-bomber.

kay_you 8 years, 7 months ago

All the TO's to think about it and they let k-state inbound the ball and get off a clean shot with one second.

ollerfarm 8 years, 7 months ago

That baseline drive and float to the rim for dunk, with one hand, sure looks like Michel Jordon!

YuCoJayHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

hiz airnes haz porbably nevr had bothe his nams misssspeled in the saym sintince.

WETSUhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

You mean MJ looks similar to Ben. Similar as in AFH is like Cameron. Who was that (ex-Duke) commentator for CBS?

DCLawHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Jim Spannarkle was not good, but at least he had the decency to apologize late in the game for having criticized McLemore's recent scoring slump. Kevin Harlan, on the other hand, was a genuine treat to hear call the game, as usual.

WETSUhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Thanks for the info, I believe they did a fairly good on the game. They do need to know the mechanics of officiating; several times they stated a foul was called when a violation was signaled. Officiating was one of the better jobs I've seen lately.

JD Roth 8 years, 7 months ago

Jim Spanarkle, played in ACC at Virginia. That was a stupid comment he made, "a little like Cameron Indoor Stadium at Duke." Give me a break.

Dirk Medema 8 years, 7 months ago

College and professional basketball

Spanarkel was a First Team Acclaim All American, in addition the First Team All-ACC and the first 2000 point scorer in the history of his alma mater, Duke University. He was named Duke's team MVP for his final three seasons, 1977, 1978, and 1979. Spanarkel was also team captain in his junior and senior years, and was announced NCAA's East Regional Most Outstanding Player in 1978.[2] He graduated from Duke in 1979.

Steve Zimmerman 8 years, 7 months ago

You can use html tag. If you view this site via mobile device, it actually displays the whole thing. Sadly, not all of them work the way I thought they would.

Steve Zimmerman 8 years, 7 months ago

Here's an example, remove the quote when you type it: "<" font color=red ">" ROCK "<" /font ">" "<" font color=blue ">" CHALK "< /font ">". Supposedly will give you red Rock, blue Chalk - but the blue doesn't work! Perhaps somebody knows the answer (use Hex?).

SaltLakeHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Here's the code:

up up down down left right left right b a start

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 7 months ago

is that all-time Fire?

I always for some reason remembered up up down down B.

That one was" telegraph passes" Which was an ironic name, because in the parlance of the game telegraphing your passes is a no-no.

Steve Zimmerman 8 years, 7 months ago

Does anybody have the game youtubed or know of some free service online?

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

CBS Sports has an app that allows you to watch all the games they are covering. I'm not sure if you can watch games already played as you can with ESPN.

Steve Zimmerman 8 years, 7 months ago

Thanks, jhawk7782, I saw the description, I didn't think it had streaming service. I guess I was wrong. Lemme try it.

Ethan Berger 8 years, 7 months ago

When was the last time we had 1 guy have 3 30 point games in a season? Bill lit a fire under Bens butt in the first half. Ben used the pump well and scored well enough of the dribble. I wont mind Ej and Ben trading off career nights.

Withey was a force on Defense. He played with swagger tonight. He didn't want anyone around him to get a bucket.

Rel was quiet, but it was okay tonight. He will be the guy who leads us to an early exit or a title. Be aggressive, don't be afraid to shoot.

Naadir had a great 1st half. Not as good second, but did real well. He will be a great starter next year.

And once again KY get no cred. He has a very limited offensive skill set, but man he is a factor that no one can deal with. He just knows how to get around the ball. He is having a great year without a lot of the praise. Does the dirty work.

Perry and Jamari need to work on their low post game. They will be our leaders next year, hopefully they can be our leading scorers also (unless Wiggins or Randle want that, I'm okay with that)

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

I think Young has been getting more credit of late for what he brings to the game. I agree though that he isn't getting all the credit he deserves. I don't think many of us would have thought he would still be starting this late into the season. Some guys just seem to have the lightbulb in their brain click in when it's needed most. He brings instant energy and also, at least to me, he looks like he is really having fun when on the court. Obviously, all the players love the game or they wouldn't be here but KY has made every minute when on the court seem special.

Oscar_Unit 8 years, 7 months ago

Kevin plays so smart. It's like 20 years from now he looked back on his college career, said "if only I'd gone after every rebound, every loose ball, was in the right place every time, and enjoyed ever minute of it..." and then went back in time and did it. The way he gets to the ball, it's like he knows what's happening before it happens. And he plays with no regrets. So fun to watch.

Plus I love the way he's an enforcer in the paint, without being malicious or dirty. Almost every game I see him give a little shiver to an opposing player trying to run free in the KU paint. He's not mean about it, but he makes sure the other team knows whose side of the court they're on.

Ethan Berger 8 years, 7 months ago

I loved when KY put Smart on his butt. Today that would be called dirty, 20 years ago it was called good basketball.

Dirk Medema 8 years, 7 months ago

Speaking of "shivers", it was Withey that laid out their PG on a pick near the top of the key, yes?

It's a little difficult for Kevin to get a lot more credit when he's surrounded by players going off the way these guys can. Fortunately, he recognizes that the team needs the effort plays as well as the box score & highlight plays. Even more so, it is good that he realizes that effort starts with the completely non-glamorous conditioning work. There have been articles that talk about him being the unequivacle leader in that category.

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 7 months ago

I disagree with one statement you made. Rel will not be the guy who leads us to an early exit. When he is not scoring he is playing lock down defense and all the other "little" things to win the game. Ben or EJ getting timid would be a more likely culprit.

Marcia Parsons 8 years, 7 months ago

I agree, BoulderHawk. He tries a couple shots, and if it isn't falling he concentrates on doing other things. No sense giving up a possession.

Ethan Berger 8 years, 7 months ago

missing shots and moving on is different from not being aggressive. He did try shots and missed which is why it didn't bother me today. However, Rel not being a force on offense is partially why we lost to TCU and OU. Rel needs to show the other teams he is not afraid to shoot. If he shoots then they have to play 5v5. If he passes up open shots, then they can play more lax and concentrate on B Mac. Iowa State tried that but Rel shot and it was the reason they lost and we won.

Dirk Medema 8 years, 7 months ago

Some people were complaining about EJ's shots against TCU (+/-), but when Travis has only 1 FGA in a game, something is wrong. It's not like the ball isn't getting passed to him. It means he (or anyone for that matter) either isn't making the effort to get open or is passing up shots.

It becomes a fine balance as well. There was 1 play yesterday where EJ got to the rim and passed up a fair good shot at the rim. The announcers commented about it as the pass was going out to Ben wide open in the corner that resulted in 3 pts. I think that play is one of the plays that Ben was commenting on in thanking his teammates and EJ in particular.

It is also nice that Ben recognizes the effort that EJ makes whether it be creating for others or taking the tough shots (ISU) in order to have a chance at points when others aren't being aggressive enough to even attempt shots. It probably also helps to see EJ be gracious in the glow. I get the impression that Ben would just as soon not have to deal with the publicity. His sr leader showed him how it should be done on and off the court.

This team is really coming together.

Ethan Berger 8 years, 7 months ago

not by bad play, but by not being a threat on offense. We did go through a three game losing streak, and him not being aggressive was a huge part of it. He is good enough to be our second leading scorer. If EJ or B mac shots aren't falling, the Rel needs to be the guy. He has shown up and he has been a ghost. He is a much bigger key the we realize.

Ethan Berger 8 years, 7 months ago

oops meant off the dribble. What I mean is because of Bills fire, we saw B Mac be aggressive instead of passing so quickly.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

Ben McLemore showed everyone why he is the best freshman in the country. He could have easily scored more points as he passed up good shots to his teammates who had better shots. I think he also proved that he can play when pressured. With his vertical jumping, he created plenty of space while showing off one of the best pure shooting strokes that I've seen at Kansas in a long time.

HCBS has this team peaking exactly where you would want it to be at this point in the season. I would have liked seeing some of this year recruiting class earning more playing time. I don't know what to make of Perry Ellis at times. I think today was the worst I've seen him play but on the other hand, Tharpe is showing why Self recruited him.

McLemore will be somewhere in the top five lottery picks. As much as I would love to see him stay for another year, I think he is NBA ready. There are several areas in his game that needs improving but overall I think it makes sense for him to make the jump.

As for the Kansas State game, I was stunned that Baylor let it slip away. Scott Drew is giving Rick Barnes a serious run for wasting talent. There is no excuse for allowing the ball to go untouched while throwing the ball the length of the basketball court. At least Kentucky got another good butt kicking today.

JD Roth 8 years, 7 months ago

McLemore needs to be aggressive every night out and Baylor didn't let it slip away, K-State took it like they have against all Big XII foes except KU. Only team other than KU to beat K-State is at Iowa State. K-State will thump TCU Tuesday and anything can happen at Oklahoma State Saturday.

Robert Brock 8 years, 7 months ago

Randle's team won TAPPS 5A - not UIL 5A. Big diff.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago think? Prestonwood has done a good job of attracting tallent and would love to see them perform against the top level tallent. Why they let Strake play UIL and none of the other TAPPS is a mystery to me. The UIL 5A is just getting started.

ParisHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

"Self just met with his coach, not Randle himself. There are a couple of ways to interpret that."

Here's a third: Randle wrote in his blog a few days ago that he was "shutting down" all contacts with college coaches.

Self just wanted to show he's interested even when he can't get Randle's ear: pretty good move.

REHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Paris and konky, I'm not certain that Self is allowed to talk to a player on an in-school visit at this stage of the season....

John Randall 8 years, 7 months ago

It was the player, not some rule, that said, "I've talked to coaches enough." Smart kid.

Suzi Marshall 8 years, 7 months ago

Very proud of Self going the extra mile and givin it his all. It reflects how he played, coaches, and expects his team to play.

texashawk10 8 years, 7 months ago

Isn't the cell phone incident at Louisville the only reason Cat Barber isn't at KU though? If I recall that incident correctly, NC State was the only major team that didn't pull their offer from Barber so I don't think you can throw that into you being wrong when KU was the party that lost interest in Barber instead of Barber losing interest in KU.

kay_you 8 years, 7 months ago

That TCU loss is really haunting me.

Michael Pannacciulli 8 years, 7 months ago

I think this team has really jelled. In November I had real concerns. It has benn a wonderful ride thus far

JD Roth 8 years, 7 months ago

ESPN is slanted. Withey gets called for bogus fouls and no comment, KU gets called for offensive goaltending when it was Iowa State who pulled on the net. Now apparently that is not worthy of discussion, just the end of regulation according to ESPN's script. Ridiculous. Five minute overtime and KU dominates 18-6 case closed.

John Randall 8 years, 7 months ago

ESPN is 'slanted' different ways at different times. They will take any side on any thing if they are pretty sure it will get a bigger share of viewers and bloggers.

ESPN couldn't care less about what's good for the sport, for the players, for the schools. Only the $$$ they can suck out of sponsors.

The shameful thing is the know-nothing (or not much) fans who actually put credence in announcers who deserve none.

tis4tim 8 years, 7 months ago

"I don't know what ESPN's deal is, but I suppose they think it's just best for them to stir the pot."

That's exactly what they do, though I would add they stir the pot when it's someone like Kansas doing the winning. They wouldn't do that to Duke, UK, Syracuse or any of their other favorite teams.

I mentioned after EJ's game at ISU that had it been Seth Curry for Duke going off for 39 points ESPN would have led with that story instead of saying Duke's opponent got hosed by the refs. Sure enough, Ryan Kelly (for Duke, no less) hits for 36 yesterday in the win against Miami and I witnessed no fewer than three entire segments of Sports Center dedicated to Ryan Kelly. You had a play-by-play breakdown of all of his shots; then you had Coach K droning on and on about how that was a "performance for the ages" and saying it was one of the all-time best games by a Duke player in history; then they cut to Dickie V. who rambled even more about Kelly and Duke. It made me sick.

Meanwhile, like you said, as if ESPN weren't bad enough, CBS picks up the ESPN mantle and runs with it during yesterday's coverage, yammering even more about the bad refs from KU's "controversial win".

Thank you indeed to Greg Anthony for talking sense about the incident and for doing it rather emphatically.

niemoth 8 years, 7 months ago

I agree Espn is to blame but don't think they have anything against Kansas. I think they would have made a big deal if it were any of the storied programs getting a late call, even duke. Did Greg Anthony become every jayhawks favorite after those comments?

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 7 months ago

Greg Anthony has always been one of my favorites. He always is informative and fairly balanced. His recent comments just backed that up.

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 7 months ago

Does anyone have a link to the Greg Anthony comments?

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago

I was going to disagree with you about the favoritism towards Duke or UK, because I think if one of those teams won a game in part because an official made a borderline call at the end of the game, ESPN would still beat the issue to death...

...until I read the part of your analogy about Seth Curry playing the role of EJ in that Iowa State game. And having read that, I have to agree with you a little bit. You can bet that if Duke had won a nailbiter with Curry going for 39 points in the fashion EJ did, that the lead would have been Curry's amazing performance.

And I think that's why the ESPN hyper-focus on that call ticks me off so much. Not because KU has to endure undue criticism for doing NOTHING wrong (even if you think that was the ONLY bad call and that it was bad, Kansas had nothing to do with it. All they did was make plays), but also because EJ deserved that moment in the spotlight. He deserved to be the one everyone in the national media was fawning over, not Ryan Kelly.

I too heard Coach K ramble on and on about Kelly's "performance for the ages". I wanted to scream at the TV:


The thing about it is this: even though Kelly was undeniably on fire, I can't put his performance in the same light as Johnson's. As ESPN pointed out in one of those 3 segments, Kelly rarely even had to put the ball on the floor--he was mostly getting the ball from his teammates and shooting pretty open looks at the basket. EJ did EVERYTHING in that final minute + overtime. It really is a crying shame that ESPN is single-handedly going to rob Johnson of his just dues after the tumultuous season he's had.

Dan Pawlowski 8 years, 7 months ago

.."robbed by the ghost of Hitler". Nice!

John Randall 8 years, 7 months ago

It does catch the attention, doesn't it?

Michael Luby 8 years, 7 months ago

Good post Konkey. I just rewatched the ISU game and there were 2 or 3 questionable calls against KU that could have easily altered the end of game situation no matter what foul was or wasnt called on EJ.

Dirk Medema 8 years, 7 months ago

I thought Gottlieb made a nice comment earlier in the show as well, about officiating not getting any worse (compared to past years). Instead, it is a matter of having more and better coverage of games.

I would add that part of it could also be random fans being able to make (inter)national statements, and networks feeding off controversy that they generate.

Also interesting that he took a shot at the age of the refs. May be true, but wow to actually state it.

okiedave 8 years, 7 months ago

Ok Withey, it is your turn to score 30 + on Monday night against TCU.

hawk_of_ages 8 years, 7 months ago

We need to bring TCU back just to whip them again!

Redlandsjhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Okay check this... Today I got a poster of the seniors signed by Kevin Young! It came from his grandma. It's my prized possession. I'm going to have it framed. It may not be as big a deal to you guys that live in Lawrence, but here in SOCAL it's gold. Don't mean to brag but.... oh hell yes I do mean to brag!!

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

Book'em Danno. It's big where ever one is.

ManCrushOnCaptainKirk 8 years, 7 months ago

Does anybody know if there's a link to the highlights?

KUFan90 8 years, 7 months ago

EJs dunk #1 on ESPN Sports Center Top Ten.

Ive never seen a team play both so ugly (TCU) and so beautifully (today among others) in the same season.

tis4tim 8 years, 7 months ago

Well, if you had watched the Top 10 last night, JayDogger, you would have also heard the commentators gently scoff at the fact EJ's clip was #1. It was subtle, but it was there no less.

Look, I don't have a vendetta against ESPN, but if anyone else broadcast KU games I certainly wouldn't tune in to ESPN as much as I do. But I've seen too many times where KU got shafted. I've seen too many Big East games going so long I missed half of our game. I've seen too many times where something KU-related was in the "coming up" window only to have that segment scrubbed when another segment runs long and they have to eliminate something. I've seen too many times where broadcasters don't have a clue how to pronounce player names, don't know a thing about our team, our history, etc. Just this past week we had "Ref-gate", and a complete glossing over of EJ's amazing performance. I even saw "Kansas" misspelled as "Kasas" in the crawler at the bottom of the screen.

Now, I'm sure producers don't sit around dreaming up ways to irritate our fanbase, but we're not some directional college. We're a blue blood program and perennial top 10 team. You'd think the "Worldwide Leader in Sports" would at least take the time to learn our players names, for chrissakes.

Michael Luby 8 years, 7 months ago

For real. I mean Wake the Eff up ESPN. Where did the game originate from? Dr. James Naismith, Kansas University, Lawrence Kansas. Period.

KULA 8 years, 7 months ago

Why does not have a link to the sportscenter top ten? Or am I missing something?

Michael Luby 8 years, 7 months ago

Its not just you. I cant see it either.

KJD 8 years, 7 months ago

Here is the link to the video of Danny Manning’s Freshman 35 point outing on Bill Self’s Senior night in Gallagher Hall. Lot’s of Danny and Bill to go hog wild with the comment space. You get to see the 2013 head coaches of Kansas, Tulsa, SMU, Maryland, and Colorado along with Kansas National Champions that are now a Washington Wizards executive and a Jayhawk Network TV analyst. It’s funny to think that it’s the Oklahoma State point guard in this game that ends up being the head coach at Kansas 30 years later. It’s a preview of the 1986 Final Four team since Boyle is the only Senior on the team. Get your short shorts on because its go time.

It is an entertaining, “hard fought” game. Some technical difficulty in the 1st half though you get sound, then its a clean broadcast. Interesting to compare this era since there is no three point line, there is a 45 second shot clock, way before Boot Camp and Hudy. The game is really packed into the paint where the ball moves around the key mostly. The defense doesn’t have to pressure the ball way out to the three point line, unless of course your Bill Self. This is also an era where fans just wear what they wear to the game instead of the present day requirement of official orange and black OSU gear for the home team.

With 2013 Senior night coming up for our Jayhawk’s, on McLemore’s night of 36 points to break the KU Freshman scoring record, it’s Danny vs Bill for goodness sake, I got sucked in and loved watching this game. And you should too if you have time on a Sunday!!! I highlighted the plays and time on the video that I thought were of particular interest, especially for the guys mentioned above. It’s a slow Saturday night so here is my list to browse through and maybe you have time to pick out a highlight or two or twenty. Some of these sequences are real gems.

Larry Brown’s starters for KU: Cedric Hunter, Calvin Thompson, Ron Kellogg, Danny Manning, Greg Dreiling. First off the bench is Tad Boyle, then soon followed by Mark Turgeon, later the Freshmen Chris Piper and Milton Newton–later he was known as Milt. KU gets into some foul trouble in this game so you get to see their depth which includes extra minutes for Boyle and Turgeon. 6’ 9” Mark Pellock (10.6 min per game) is back home with a nasty case of the flu so 6’ 8” Piper (6.8 min per game) gets bonus minutes.

(4:40) Danny’s superb passing is on display right at the beginning. The tip goes to Danny but he doesn’t grab the ball. He redirects perfectly to Kellogg who is on the move down the sideline.

(5:50) Bill Self defends with his feet, slides over, draws a lot of contact and gets the charge on Kellogg who is attacking on transition. The play-by-play man calls the play initially as “another foul, failing to get position…” Another great example of these kind of bang-bang charge/block/no-call plays. The Analyst says “It looks like an offensive foul…but from our position it could be called either way” ;o)

KJD 8 years, 7 months ago

(8:40) #20 Self plays good D again on this play. I like watching how he plays between his man and the ball. He eventually deflects the ball for a turnover as the pass is going to his man cutting to the rim.

(10:05) Self makes a move to the basket though he travels. You do get a good look at the younger Self running back down the court. Maybe he should return to that haircut with it longer in the back, trimmed at the collar. It makes him look like he’s been running really fast and the wind velocity has made the hair on the back of his head stand up.

(13:25) Self who is at the point does a great job passing to reverse the ball against the 2-3 zone to get it to the third side. The play results in a travel due to smart KU D.

(14:00) Ron Kellogg with a cut to the top of the key then a sweet turn-around jumper. Smoothness and high power scoring at both forward positions for Kansas.

(14:50) Danny passing on a quick give and go to Calvin Thompson who has 8 of KU’s first 12 points.

(15:15) First example of the 7’ 1“ Dreiling‘s Defensive style by drawing a charge. He moves his feet laterally very well for a big, stays long and vertical, provides a one man wall around the rim to intimidate anyone who dares to go inside. Another reason I’m so happy to find this game because I’ve been wanting to see Dreiling to compare him to Withey due to their body types: 7 footers, good athletes for their size, who are long and lanky, and are defensive specialists on teams with lots of scoring options. Dreiling had a 10 year NBA career and, it’s a different era for sure, Withey is certainly more athletic in movement. Jeff’s ability to run then time his jump is such a contrast to how Dreiling walls up long with both feet on the ground. The lack of a three point line certainly helps create the difference in style too.

(17:40) Dreiling, without jumping, stuffs a drive by Self. This does remind me of how Withey lets a driving guard go around him and uses his size to get him from behind as the smaller shooter goes up with the shot.

(18:00) Kellogg drains 2 free-throws to extend a stretch where he makes 39 out of 43 from the stripe. The announcers say that Kellogg had five 30 point games that year, all on Saturday’s.

(21:15) Tad Boyle, under the OSU basket, inbounds to Danny Manning who show off his full set of skills by bringing the ball up court and gets KU into their half-court offense due to full-court pressure on Mark Turgeon. The TV analyst says “looking at the intensity out here you would think it’s the final of the Big 8 tournament.” Then to finish the possession (21:35) “What a shot by Danny Manning. My gosh, off balance, falling forward” Swish!

(23:10 ) Sophomore Mark Turgeon “the Surgeon” brings it down court and makes one pass to Danny who is fouled shooting. For me this is a good reminder of Mark’s style of ball handling.

KJD 8 years, 7 months ago

(25:40) Freshman Chris Piper enters the game to give Dreiling a breather. KU’s 5 on the floor are Turgeon, Boyle, Kellogg, Manning, Piper. They play zone. Danny is super active in the middle. (26:55) Danny shows off a quick and smooth jump hook. Swish. Announcers say “such poise”, “many say he’s Magic Johnson all over again”, and “if he wasn’t under the reins of Coach Brown he would be even more exciting to watch”. (27:30) Danny gets wide open low in the paint, catch, smooth spin jump, and Swish. Kansas with their biggest lead 25-16. Team FG% is KU 66% and OSU 28%.

Danny’s previous high as a Freshman was 30 points against Kentucky and a 28 point game against Houston. His previous high in conference was 22 against Iowa State and he did it again in the previous game against Nebraska.

Sports Time, the outfit announcing this game 1985 game, advertises the upcoming Big 8 Men’s & Women’s Indoor Track & Field Championship. When was the last time you watched that on TV? Here in 2013, the Lady Jayhawk’s are currently ranked 3rd nationally behind LSU and Oregon Go Jayhawk’s!

(32:35) Bill Self, a Senior starter, checks back into the game to run the point.

(34:30) Bill Self goes to work. He drains a nice jumper off a pass he can step into to shoot. Then Self draws another charge, by quickly moving laterally while Campbell is trying to bring the ball up court. Looks like Bill bangs the back of his head on the court pretty good too. Bill coolly picks himself off the court, directly walks over to get the ball, then passes it to the official. The man is all business. ”Watch the defense now, watch how quickly his feet moves...He was there ladies and gentleman. Good call by the official.”

(35:35) This is a good Self, Brown, Manning play to watch. At first you see Bill pressure the ball as it is brought down court and he’s real active in his movement. Bill also shows something here that KU does regularly now: look at the way Self keeps his body angled, always defending the center of the court by maintaining a certain relationship of his stance to the ball-handler where Bill forces his man to the side. He maintains this for half the distance of the court. Right when the pass is dropped off to Kellogg watch Danny cut down the baseline under the basket. Kellogg is going to pass to Newton, set a screen for Manning to curl around then run in behind Newtons second screen. Nice play drawn up by Brown to get Danny a wide open look to answer an OSU run helped by Self from that 34:30 sequence. Danny gets the ball above the free throw line and he’s going to get a nice shooters bounce to sink his jumper: “Mister Soft Touch stops the momentum” and gets his 13th point of the game on 5-5 shooting from the field.

KJD 8 years, 7 months ago

Milt Newton became the second offensive weapon to complement Manning in the 1988 title run. As a Freshman Milton could play some D as observed by the former UCLA, Wooden coached analyst: (36:35) “I like to see Newton play...He’s one of those players who doesn’t even want you to get the ball off. He goes up and is almost blocking it every time”. Then (37:35) Milt Newton shows off his sweet touch from long range.

(40:00) Turgeon with the ball, Brown runs a back door alley-opp play where Turgeon throws a nice pass over the defense to perfectly set up Thompson’s throw down. Next possession Self has a nice pass to get the ball down low to his big man.

(41:35) KU fans should recognize the action on this play that starts with Dreiling up top and ends with a great high/low feed from Manning who feeds Dreiling and he finishes with a reverse layup. KU extends their lead to 12 points and the analyst points out that either through mental toughness or superior conditioning that KU always puts on a spurt with 3 minutes, 2 minutes, 1.5 minutes to go in the half. True in 1985 and true ever since.

Sports Time advertises the Bobby Knight Show and comments that the show will be during Knight’s one game suspension “after his chair throwing incident the other night...I tell ya’ he threw ‘cross court, it went slippin’ and sliddin’ a long way”.

(43:25) Replay of Turgeon’s lob to Thompson.

(43:40) Two minutes to play in the first half with Self and Turgeon matched up at point guard to close out the half. Manning makes a few plays worth seeing, and Piper has a terrific save before the ball goes out of bounds.

The announcers at half time note for the second time that the second half is when Danny piles on the points. At half he is the leading scorer with 15.

(1:00:00) To start off the second half the OSU crowd gets louder and louder and louder and finally gets into a frenzy as OSU wipes out their 13 point deficit with a 15-2 run. (1:00:40) When an official gives the ball to Kansas after a fight for the ball, the OSU fans finally get to let out a ferocious booooo. Now THAT is more like the Stillwater I know. The crowd was pretty tame in the first half.

(1:03:00) With KU down by 2 and OSU on an 11 point run Tad Boyle, who subbed in for Kellogg early in the second due to foul trouble, is calling for the ball and, after a few passes, sinks a long jumper for the tie. Nice Senior play on the road Coach Boyle.

(1:04:36) With 13:42 left in the game, OSU fans rockin’ with the Cowboy’s up by 4, Larry Brown calls a time out. Turnovers: KU 18 and OSU 8. Larry draws up a clear-out for Cedric Hunter who gets the layup and draws the foul. Cedric Hunter, one of the many great KU point guards, finishes the three point play off to start the KU rally.

(1:06:40) Danny Manning, stuck on 15 points for the second half, drops in a turn-around J as he turns and jumps towards the baseline. With less than 13:00 minutes to go, Danny gets KU the lead back 51-50.

KJD 8 years, 7 months ago

(1:12:20) Danny Manning with a long stretching tip in for 21 points. Danny Manning’s line at this point: 21 points; 9-10 FG; 3-3 FT; 7 Rebounds; 2 blocks; 4 assists.

(1:16:00) The KU five is Turgeon, Boyle, Newton, Manning, Piper. They go to Manning for his 23rd. (1:16:35) YOU MUST SEE THIS! Manning steals the ball. As he goes out of bounds he throws a behind-the-back-pass upcourt which Turgeon hunts down. Turgeon immediately goes on the attack where he drives down the center of the court then cuts down along the right side of the lane. He draws contact, gets the foul as he makes a running hook shot before he too goes out of bounds. It’s a wowza, wow, wowza play.

(1:17:20) Bill Self enters the game and he still has not appeared on the back line of a 2-3 OSU zone :-) KU leads by 11 after scoring 10 straight points: Thanks Danny! On the next possession, after a nice entry pass by Self to get it inside to his big man, Danny gets a block in front of the goal, gets the rebound, draws the foul, and on the other end of the court Danny makes both free throws. Those are Danny’s 24th and 25th points, gets the KU lead back to 13, and extends the KU run to 16-2 which Danny has 11.

Whenever Bill Self thinks of HIS senior night he will always remember Danny’s Freshman 35 point outing. It reminds me of how gracious Bill consistently was about Danny while he was on his KU coaching staff for those first 9 nine years. It was more than gracious. Bill regularly shined the spotlight on Danny, especially those first 3 years when Danny took on the responsibilities of director of student-athlete development / team manager. Roy had just left for Carolina Blue which was a punch to the soul to the KU faithful. Bill knew that Danny’s return was tremendously important which immediately restore that sense of history and family to the Kansas Basketball bench.

(1:19:00) Danny leads the 3-2 break, makes a fantastic on the run fade-step-dish to Newton who skies. However, Bill Self slides over to draw his third charge of the game. You can’t see that in the Seniors box score. Then Bill takes the ball down court, passes once, gets the ball back, drives, leans in to draw the foul and sinks the bucket over Dreiling. Before Bill steps up to the free throw line he, just like Elijah Johnson does so regularly, wipes off the bottom of his sneakers with his hands. Self sinks the free throw to trim the deficit to 10.

KJD 8 years, 7 months ago

(1:20:40) Bill Self, from way out, sends an on target two handed alley-opp pass where his man goes way up and is fouled. OSU misses another front-end of a 1 and 1. If OSU was hitting their free throws they would be in this game.

(1:23:10) Danny Manning hunts the ball down for a double handed stuff for 27 points.

(1:24:10) Bill Self makes up for his errant alley-opp pass (1:23:50) on the previous possession with a good two-tap, quick hand steal off of Calvin Thompson. Self controls the ball, gets out on the break and then shows his quality with an excellent behind the back pass with his left hand which lands right on the money to the OSU trailer who goes for the jam yet ends up drawing the foul instead. Bill gets two replays!

(1:26:25) A Manning offensive rebound and then slices two defenders for a layup: 29 points.

(1:26:35) Bill Self drives and dishes to the open shooter who makes the J.

(1:26:40) Danny goes behind the back on the dribble to finish up the break down of the OSU full court press. Analyst: “you can’t keep up...Exciting things are happening out here tonight.”

(1:27:10) Danny with a turnaround jumper off the glass for 31 points.

(1:27:20) Bill Self beats the KU defense with an alley-opp pass for a slam dunk. “Look at THAT play.”

(1:27:40) Turgeon tries to do his best Bill Self impression. Instead he gets ran over in the open court for a blocking foul. We still love you Mark Turgeon.

(1:28:15) Bill’s alley-opp play replayed. 4:05 left and KU is up 76-67. The Danny Manning led answer earlier in the half is the difference in this game along with the Cowboy’s failure at the stripe.

(1:30:15) Dreiling fouls out which puts Freshmen Chris Piper in the game to close it out.

(1:31:00) Danny Manning gets to 33 points.

(1:34:10) Get inside Larry Brown’s huddle during timeout. The analyst does a good job extending on what you can see what Brown drew up and say to the players. The plan up 10 with 2:45 to go: drain clock and then get it to Danny.

(1:35:00) Good possessions coming up to watch Self on the offensive end with his team down late. Self in this game shows his skills with the bounce pass from up top to the wing and from the wing into the post. Tad Boyle shows a nice rotation up which forces Self to pick up his dribble. OSU works the ball into the post to collapse the zone then the pass comes out to Self. (1:35:20) He immediately penetrates to the center of the KU zone and puts up a nice one handed floater but he doesn’t get the role. Watch Self after the play is called dead. Hand slap, head rock. The man is a competitor without quit. (1:35:35) Bill Self floater replayed. Then Bill Self fouls with 2:19 remaining (interesting, very interesting). KU misses the front end of the one and one. Brown’s plan in the huddle is negated.

KJD 8 years, 7 months ago

(1:36:45) Bill Self gets into the lane, bad pass, which he recovers and follows with his last points in Gallagher Hall. Oklahoma State then sets up a full court press except that KU inbounds to Manning who beats 3 defenders going down the court, the last one is Self, to get the ball into the half-court offense. Kansas leads by 6 and they put Tad Boyle on the line who misses the front end of a one and one.

(1:37:40) Cedric Hunter fouls Self as he dribbles to the free throw line. With his team down by 6 in his last game at home, Bill Self misses long with his first on the front end of a one and one. I’ve never felt so bad in my heart for a Cowboy. Manning gets the rebound.

(1:38:20) Turgeon, who is in for Hunter who fouled out, gets the ball from Manning and clears the ball to the offensive end. Piper is already in for Dreiling who fouled out. Boyle is still on the floor instead of Kellogg. Calvin Thompson is the fifth Jayhawk. Now it’s up to the KU coaching fraternity to close out the our head coaches last home game as a Cowboy.

(1:38:45) They put a camera on Self for a few seconds as he has time to reflect while waiting for Turgeon to shoot free throws. At the end of the shot he turns his back to the camera and pounds his hands in disgust. Mark Turgeon is misses HIS front end of a one and one.

(1:39:15) With OSU racing down court after the rebound, Boyle almost grabs a steal by getting a hand on a pass meant for Self. Instead, Self gets around Boyle, Boyle dives and Self pokes the ball away. Self controls the ball with a dribble, forces Turgeon to rotate over to front Self then passes to a wide open shooter who drains a long J. KU 80 OSU 76 1:07 to play. Timeout Oklahoma State.

During the timeout we find out that Jack Hartman’s K-State Wildcats upset Norm Stewart’s Missouri Tigers up in Columbia 69-54.

(1:41:25) With Piper inbounding the ball, Brown draws up a great inbounds play which frees Turgeon to race up the floor, makes a pass, get it right back to draws a questionable foul as he drives for a layup. Turgeon makes them both to make it 82-76.

(1:44:10) Self dribbles down court and gets another assist as he passes to an Okie State player off a curl.

(1:44:45) Tad Boyle on the fast break lays it in for two to push the KU lead back up to 6.

(1:45:45) Up five and in the open court as time is running out, Danny Manning receives a pass from Chris Piper with an open lane to the bucket. He dribbles. He drives to the basket. He hammers home a rim bending two hand slam that rattles the goal post for his 35 points, to finish 15-16 from the field.

Mike Barnhart 8 years, 7 months ago

Thanks for the link, it's awesome. However, only jaybate would appreciate that lack of brevity!

Phil Leister 8 years, 7 months ago

The watching of the game alone had to take a couple hours, let alone the analysis. You and Jaybate should be each others' friends.

Tuskin 8 years, 7 months ago

Where do you find archived games like that?

Michael Luby 8 years, 7 months ago

That is so cool! Thank you so much for that! This game is a few years before my time so I love the chance to see extra stuff Ive never seen before. Thanks

kay_you 8 years, 7 months ago

I think fans are being way too sensitive. During our championship season Fraschilla was on the KU band wagon right to the very end, now he’s being criticized for voicing an opinion contrary to our best interest. And ESPN and other network announcers in general have been very complementary when it comes to KU. I would not be surprised if fans from the other 9 conference teams complain about what KU homers they are.

The call in the ISU game would at the very least garner some attention no matter who was playing but more so because it was a top program. I don’t think it would matter if it involved KU, Duke, UNC, UK or any of the blue bloods. Greg Anthony put things in perspective, correctly IMO but if that same call goes against KU the number of posters on LJW complaining would crash this site.

Janet Olin 8 years, 7 months ago

In case you missed it, Fraschilla has been on an anti-KU bender since his son, who plays for OU, caught an elbow from Jordan Juenemann way back when. He is never off his soap box these days; amazing the Powers That Be let him call any Big 12 game, let alone KU. It is partly his on-camera hysteria over the no call w/ISU that started the Ref-gate and ended in Big12 officials' reprimands, all of it being aired in public, rather than the in-house reviews that typically take place. This could honestly present itself again in NCAA selections and in 'paybacks' from refs toward KU, don't think it can't.

JD Roth 8 years, 7 months ago

All you have to do is open your eyes. ESPN is an East Coast Network, not a National Network. Check the games they replay and also the Classic games they replay and you have to be blind not to understand that. Case closed.

kay_you 8 years, 7 months ago

So you’re implicating Fran Fraschilla, ESPN, the Big 12, the NCAA selection committee and the refs. That’s a pretty big conspiracy.

I have no doubt that refs will at times correct themselves during a game to make up for a bad call. That may have been what happened in Ames. My point however was about the treatment we receive from the media which I believe is overall pretty good. I just think we are being a bit too sensitive and even child like at times because an announcer calls it like he sees it. And if Fraschilla actually hates KU, so what. He’s not the only announcer.

hawk_of_ages 8 years, 7 months ago

I was annoyed at Fran's grandstanding on the infamous no-call last week, but I've never had the sense that he's anti-KU at all. I do agree with you that we sometimes seem to be wearing tinfoil hats around here complaining about every national announcer being biased against us.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

"Referee Credibility Gap"

The moment referees began to appear to not call fouls for stretches to fit games into broadcast windows, referees began to suffer a credibility gap in the minds of many of those around the game.

Fans free to speak their minds on threads like this began to comment more and more the last few years about unfair calls going both ways, or often against their home team. But the problem was no one early on could put their finger on why the phenomenon was happening. The best most could guess was that the ref's were "letting'em play" so as not to decide the games, i.e., players were supposed to decide game--not the refs. It was specious logic, but no one ever wants to believe enforement is bending the rules intentionally.

Still, It just grew more and more obvious that the refs were not calling fouls.

When regulators in any organized activity cease inforcing the rules evenly, or at all, it breads questioning in those involved in the activity. They try to resolve the cognitive dissonance from regulators charged with enforcing the rules not enforcing the rules. They speculate. They hypothesize.

Two years ago, at least, I began to write about refs appearing to fit games in broadcast windows by no calling fouls for stretches of the games, and board rats were made rather uncomfortable by the idea. They tended to either ignore my posts, or smear them by calling them conspiracy theorist talk. Over time, the game got so rough and scores of games began to decline and a few began to at least consider my hypothesis.

Journalists and broadcasters are not immune from the referee credibility gap effect. They make their livings commenting on games, so they are loath to bite the hand that feeds them and talk about something as sensitive as referees not doing their jobs. But because broadcasters in particular are commenting in real time and often with their faces visible, they have a particularly hard time retaining their own credibility, if they do not try to explain why fouls are not being called. Most often it appears safest to gloss over the failure of refs call fouls by using cliches like, " referees make mistakes," "this was a particularly tough game to call," or emoting a bit indignantly with "Well, I really don't understand that call." These cliches are then moved on from.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

More recently, however, the uncalled fouls have grown so excessive that they are for extended periods the rule, rather than the exception.

Sooner or later, announcers laboring under the referee credibility gap get frustrated. Fran Fraschilla got frustrated. He decided to really put on a stink and talk about how the refereeing was hurting ISU. This tactic is a kind of reductionist approach, where Fraschllla simplifies the problem into blaming the refs rather than actually explaining what is going on. It focuses the audience not on what is really going on, but on sympathizing with one team. Fraschilla is probably acting in this irrational manner to resolve his own cognitive dissonance about the referee credibilty gap.

Recently Jay Bilas took another more reasoned approach, when he was interviewed on an 810AM WHB Podcast before the second KU Texas game. Halfway into a 16 minute interview Bilas says the game has grown hockey like in roughness, because he alleges conference supervisors of officials are limiting referee's foul calling, to say 35 per game to keep the games from running too long. Bilas says coaches know this and so coach their players to foul 60 times a game. Here is a link to the pod cast. Click it and then scroll down and click on Jay Bilas name.

Coaches and players face the referee credility gap from a strategic perspective. As Bilas says, coaches sensing what referees are doing, coach their players to foul way more than what the refs can call to get the edge on the other team. But coaches and players cannot risk speaking openly and in uncoded ways about the issue, because doing so might trigger retaliation in future games by referees.

The referee credibilty gap drives coaches like Self into an enabling, codependent defense of the referees. He will say that the referees are calling fouls about the same for both teams, rather than talk about how officials are not calling fouls.

Games have rules.

When games are not called according to the rules, play alters, or breaks down into something not very close to what the game is meant to be.

People grow uncertain of what is happening.

Uncertainty makes persons uneasy.

If the uncertainty persists long enough, people start getting irritable and unrational.

This is where some fans and some commentators appear to be now.

Coaches may be, also.

Refereeing needs to be cleaned up, before the players start going off.

Janet Olin 8 years, 7 months ago

Not suggesting conspiracy. Fraschilla's beef is well known and he shouldn't be calling Big12 games as long as his son plays for OU. Bilas is on tv record lamenting the open secret that network execs pressure refs to make fewer calls so the games can fit neatly into the tv time slots; coaches know this but can't comment--Bilas says the result is more uncontrolled physical play, ala hockey, and other announcers agree. Previously, reviews were conducted in private, not in public forum. This could, Not Will, impact KU in the tourney, both selection and ref calls/non-calls.

John Randall 8 years, 7 months ago

To put a point on the anti-KU bias so many perceive from sports media, please let me relate a few comparisons between what we were and what we are becoming. Maybe we deserve some of the same scorn we spew on everyone else. KU just ain't what it ustabe.

It does take some maturity to outgrow the Narcissus' complex we all begin our childhood with. Unfortunately, fewer and fewer Kansans are experiencing that kind of growth in small towns with rural attitudes, while money-mongering submerges values that we could take legitimate pride in. It's always been The American Way to grab what you could, disregarding what was deserved. That kind of avarice has been slower to dominate attitudes here than in many places, but the pace is accelerating.

When I was on The Hill, there were only a representative sampling of Johnson County Frat Rats (who knew they couldn't cut it on their own), and only a third or so of the Liberal Arts faculty openly trumpeted socialist mores. There also was a higher percentage of academic honors (Fulbright, Rhodes, etc.) than is seen now from the overprivileged contingent swamping the enrollment.

To expect that Kansas' tradition overcome, instead of just temper these factors would not be realistic, but neither is pretending that nothing of value is being lost along the way.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

Most everything you write above is anecdotal, based on stereotyping, and either empirically unverifiable, or an oversimplified misinterpretation of they dynamics involved, or both.

Your notion that in the past there were a larger percentage of Fulbright, Rhodes, etc. exemplifies this. First, you don't prove it. Second, "etc." is a vagary. No one ever got an "etc." award. Third, you don't document that the total number of Fulbrights and Rhodes scholarships offered these days have increased proportionally with the total number of students in universities, so your assertion here triggers only skepticism.

Here is what we know. Science is producing orders of magnitude more research and than was being produced when you were in college. Science magazine documents the snowballing amounts of research, discoveries and research monies. You are living in the midst of the greatest acceleration in scientific discovery in the history of humanity and almost any legitimate scholarly source would corroborate this.

Our nation is literally being overwhelmed with new knowledge. And the kids today have more to learn than ever before. And year after year these kids are going on in their fields and pushing the frontiers of knowledge farther. For gosh sake, you flipping dolt. In the last year a scholar at the University of Michigan has been figuring out how to freeze light photons into a lattice. Thorium, which is ubiquitously deposited in the great plains, and more so in the mountain states, to say nothing of places all over the world, is being explored for revolutionizing nuclear power generation. Cars are getting 40-50 mpg in diesels and hybrids, 100 MPGe in electrics. Researchers are developing invisibilty suits for DARPA. Wake up and subscribe to Science magazine. These are some of the major discoveries of 2012, these are just the tip of a vast ice berg of discoveries each year.

Higgs boson particle pretty certainly confirmed.

Found a massive planet 13 times the size of Jupiter.

Found the biggest black hole ever.

The oldest galaxy was found.

Genome sequencing for fetuses using DNA snippets from a mother's blood.

Teleporting quantum particles was extended up to 50 miles.

After 3 billions years of life relying on RNA and DNA to reproduce, scientists created XNA, which will massively expand science's ability to bioengineer.

Elon Musk's SpaceX became the first private company to launch and deliver a payload to the International Space Station.

Scientists drilled down 2 miles and found Lake Vostok in Antartica, where they are expecting to find ancient life forms.

Dolphins have complex social hierarchies that include forming gangs that attack other gangs.

And these are just some of the easy ones to understand. There are literally tens, or hundreds of thousands more discoveries and advances that were made that are smaller pieces that often prove to be more important in the long run.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

Fundamentalist movements, religious orthodoxies, political ideologies, and economic status quod, have throughout human history swelled and spread whenever the frontier of knowledge was being massively advanced by science. These movements that have swept over Kansas are nothing more than signs of just how staggeringly much knowledge has shocked the small towns and suburbs and inner cities and their city, county, state and Federal governments.

I wish Kansans weren't so afraid of all the new knowlege and the change it brings that they had to resort to refutable creationism, and telling women what to do with their wombs. I wish that oil and gas guys didn't try to use their monies to try to obstruct scientific progress and back obsolete energy sources. I wish they didn't try to impose infrastructures by practicing regime change with divide and conquer tactics using religion, racism, campaign money dumping, and emergency city manager tactics. But they always have and they now do and they always will. And they will in the long term fail just like they always have failed.

Expansion of scientific knowledge and the education and money that stimulate it are like water. It finds its own level and it seeps in everywhere.

Ideologues can do harm. They can make progress immensely more painful. They can make it so that its benefits are much less evenly distributed. But they can't stop it. They can make it so the kids of Kansas wrong think there is no point to go to college. But in the end the kids, like so many salmon, will swim upstream out of instinct.

The most important tradition is the tradition of changing from magical thinking to reasoned thinking, from magical thinking to systematic explanation.

Where do you think these break throughs are coming from? The Over 65 crowd? Hell, no. Bright young minds are still being identified and educated at record rates.

Science is relentless. It isn't waiting for a bunch of red state ideologues, or blue state ideologues, any more than it waited for Commies, or anti-commies, or royalists and republicans.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

You use the word socialist as if it were a bad word. our corporations are fundamentally socialized organizations. All large private corporations are conduits for government bailouts, or bailouts from private central banks paid for by government taxes. For gods sakes, the liberal arts faculty trumpeting socialist values long ago no longer needs to because all of our large corporations, especially our oil and gas outfits are private conduits for public subsidy. Our corporations are often literally owned by the public. And when they are not owned out right, they are so heavily subsidized they might as well be. FRankly, we need liberal arts to go back to teaching about socialism, because our biz grads need to undertstand socialization so they can run our socialized corporations effectively.

The University of Kansas is full of kids right now that are going to take human knowledge to the next level yet again. Some of them will come from small towns. Some will be JoCo frat rats. Some will be from ethnic poverty. Some will be from around the world.

I'm so flipping tired of hearing about how much frat rats can't cut it, and kids that wear their pants tight can't cut it, and so on.

Knowledge is a numbers game when education is available. The more that get an education, and the more research is funded, the more knowledge will be created. Period.

Lead, follow or get out of the way, KU62.

The trains for the future just keep leaving.

Try catching one.

They kids sure as hell are, when anyone gives them half a chance financially.

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