Tuesday, February 26, 2013


Opinion: Cyclones give boost to college hoops


— The ugliness of the aftermath late Monday night deflected attention from the prettiest college basketball game in this season littered with ugly ones.

The return of beautiful basketball for 45 minutes Monday night in Hilton Coliseum can be traced to two factors. No. 1: Iowa State coach Fred Hoiberg’s fast-paced, spread-the-floor-and-let-the-shooters-shoot brand of basketball. No. 2: Kansas can compete and win games played at every pace.

KU wins the majority of close games and Iowa State tends to lose them, in part a function of Kansas playing more sound defense.

Give Hoiberg credit for elevating the Iowa State program in terms of victories and popularity, even though the Cyclones fell just short, 108-96, in overtime on a night two calls from officials went against the Cyclones late in regulation. Basketball programs across America that repeatedly find themselves on the wrong side of the NCAA Tournament bubble need to emulate what Hoiberg is doing. He gets more out of transfers than their previous coaches because he encourages them to shoot and frees their minds.

“We’re playing with a tremendous amount of confidence on the offensive end, as much as any team I’ve been around,” Hoiberg said. “We share the ball. We space the floor. We trust each other at that end of the court. We just have to carry it over and find a way to grind out those stops when they matter most.”

Both teams hit big shot after big shot, so many of them tightly guarded.

“I know Fred’s crushed and I would be too if the outcome were different because both teams played so well,” Self said afterward. ‘He’ll watch the tape and I’ll watch the tape. I guarantee you I don’t know if we’ve had two teams in the same game execute as well offensively as both teams did tonight. That was two good teams playing. The crowd was unbelievable, great, and our guys responded well to the atmosphere. It was as much fun as I’ve had all year long coaching a game.”

Hoiberg indeed was crushed, having watched his team score 89 and 96 points against one of the nation’s toughest defenses, only to lose twice in overtime. Still, his heavy heart didn’t blind his vision.

“It was an entertaining basketball game, I’ll say that in a season you see 30-29 games, 50-45,” Hoiberg said. “If nothing else, we gave our fans their money’s worth. We try to play a very exciting style of basketball. We try to get it out and we have five playmakers on the floor at one time. We’ve created a buzz because of our style of play and we’re going to continue to play that way. We just have to find a way to get some stops. And when we do that, I think we have a long season ahead of us.”

By long season, Hoiberg meant one that includes NCAA Tournament success. If the Cyclones get into the field, the tournament benefits.


LovetheHawks63 8 years, 8 months ago

It was a thrilling game but in my mind it called attention to the need for all our Big 12 coaches to address hospitality and good sportsmanship among the fan base. The fans look up to the coaches and the players, they need to hear no hate speech or disrespectful actions will be tolerated.

Joe Ross 8 years, 8 months ago

Good article, Keegan. As a basketball fan, i say its a shame that either team had to lose that game. Both played with heart and gave 110% effort. As a Kansas fan, however, I'm glad we won. Bottom line: the call at the end of the game was a bad one, but Kansas had bad calls against them as well. I don't understand all the misguided statements about calls down the stretch being more important. Hey...the buckets scored at the beginning of the game STILL COUNT when the clock reaches 00:00. Likewise, bad calls called early are still critical calls. There were bad calls on Withey early that caused him to play timidly late, and you can't tell me that didn't affect Iowa State's ability to score. Having said all of that, there was a stark contrast in class showed within the Iowa State camp: the fans pelting our players and charging our coach on the one hand, and Fred Hoiberg taking a loss as graciously as a coach can given all that was riding on it (possibly an NCAA berth was lost?) on the other. Let me tell you something: Fred Hoiberg is a class act, ladies and gentlemen! And he would have been one even if Iowa State had won that game. I would hope that if Kansas fans were disappointed in a loss due to a controversial call, that we would not assault the other team's players.

yates33333 8 years, 8 months ago

Why cast aspersions at "hillbillies," the Iowa fans are hog farmers, born and bred in a pig sty!

Tony Bandle 8 years, 8 months ago

My brother's late father-in-law was an Iowa hog farmer and he passed away after raising four beautiful daughters, gaining the respect of his entire town and leaving behind an estate worth over 10 million dollars......yates you should be so lucky.

armystronger 8 years, 8 months ago

Having grown up on a farm and Kansas being a farming state your a real piece of work. It's hard work and all you work at is running your mouth. You idiot where do you think your food comes from. Please move to Canada and do us a favor.

Jared Grillot 8 years, 8 months ago

The Mayor was always a dangerous opponent, and I was excited to see him come back and take the reins. They were a tough team and we had to scrap and have a night of enlightenment from EJ to make this one happen. It's unfortunate that the fans were quite that ugly, and even more unfortunate that ESPN has hyper-focused on the "questionable calls" (ones that have been no-calls in LOTS of other games) and ignored the unsportsmanlike and dangerous conduct by ISU fans. The Big XII makes a statement about the calls and officiating, but does nothing about their fans throwing things at our team, or charging our coach? I don't see how that's equitable.

JL 8 years, 8 months ago

Amen. Well said.

The only thing I would add is that the Cyclones didn't lose in regulation. They lost in overtime. They had the same opportunities in overtime that KU did-so people, quit whining about controversial calls in regulation time. There are always controversial calls--beginning, middle and end of the game. So suck it up and play overtime like you want to win--not fall apart. Jayhawks got the job done. Cyclones didn't--no matter what the calls were.

Joe Baker 8 years, 8 months ago

Don't you know that KU had an advantage in OT? ISU wanted to stop playing at about the 15 sec mark of regulation when things didn't go their way. They had it "won" at the "call" when EJ hit the FTs. Luscious even admitted, "we won the game." I'm not sure what he meant by that, but it shows they stopped playing and didn't play through buzzer to buzzer. When you stop playing in a close game, the other team will play through. The team that plays through the buzzer, wins. People can say all they want about EJ's dunk, but he never stopped. I think it's dumb to dribble the ball and run the time out. I don't care about the score. ISU's body language at that dunk was indicative of their play. Quitters never win games. Fighters usually win. KU fought. All Self had to do was yell at EJ, "RUN THE CLOCK." Self didn't have a problem and let EJ complete a great night.

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 8 months ago

Reminds you of the MU Antlers, doesn't it?

741hawk 8 years, 8 months ago

Lackluster in two overtimes? Yes. A combined score (I'm told) of 36 - 16 in the two overtimes. I'm giving the MVP (Most Valuable Person) Award to Andrea Hudy. ISU lost their legs at the end. Those 3s just weren't going down like before. The Jayhawks were undoubtedly tired, but they didn't look it. They played through it. They played with enthusiasm to the end. Rock Chalk.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 8 months ago

Ralster .. you make great points. The whining after a dunk to end the game is unbelievable. Did anyone hear or see anyone whine after Forte scored at the buzzer against us in the OSU home loss? He could have just dribbled it out. Self mentioned this yesterday. To be honest, it didn't cross my mind. Best way to prevent that is to .. well .. stop it. Win. Play defense.

The ISU crowd was bush-league. I get that frustration at the end of the game. This game was obviously the biggest thing in Ames in quite a while .. special t-shirts and all. But I will say this, too. Emotions are high after losses. Look at coach Self after the OSU loss. He lost it. I'm willing to cut ISU some slack for the post game baloney.

But the dunk? It was an exclamation point for EJ. We know what EJ has been through. The dunk was awesome. Maybe exorcised some demons with that.

Joe Baker 8 years, 8 months ago

I know this is a sore spot, but I was slightly reminded of the uni game when Farokmenesh hit that spot up trey. It hurt, but I didn't get butt sore about it. He was hot and finished a game.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 8 months ago

It's been a long time since my freshman year when the banana/hot dog games were played. Obviously they don't rise to the level of death threats and fan behavior shown by Iowa State but it wasn't very classy either. I would think that for the players who have had the joy playing in Columbia, it would have been fairly similar to the classy "Antlers" at every Missouri game. Maybe this could be the new biggest rivalry for Kansas.

I wonder how the Iowa State players felt about the racial slurs being thrown at Kansas players?

Kent Richardson 8 years, 8 months ago

Self was concerned about his team not himself. He played it just right. It puts the shuffle he dispayed during the OK State as an indication of how bad he wanted that victory. Master of behavior based coaching. I have seen a lot of games this year, not talking KU, when a team is unconscious from three early it usually signals the death knell for the opposition unless it is answered in kind. Thanks to Tharpe and Releford. This season has validated how important confidence is and I hope Perry takes the next step now. I know I am looking ahead too much, but how brutal and competitive will the Big 12 tournament be?

Geezer 8 years, 8 months ago

Bill Self with Kansas in games that go to overtime is 12-1 in his last 13 OT games and 7-0 in his last 7 OT games. He is 14-5 overall at Kansas in OT games, but has been legendary since starting 2-4 in the early years.

Nikki May 8 years, 8 months ago

You could physically see ISU start hanging their heads. They played an amazing game, and then lost it. Shell-shocked is the exact word. I've seen it in youth sports one team dominates the first half, then starts losing. They need to keep their heads up. When you start to blow that lead, you need to keep playing the way you were when you were winning, and they both lost their steam and lost their confidence.

That "last" bad call of the game, made the game go to over time. I concede that. However, if everything is called fairly, the scores would have been different. Further, it IS part of the game. Human nature. But, to lose the lead they had was NOT just one play. The score was determined by the whole game.

In conclusion, even when you're losing, KEEP YOUR HEAD UP! Kansas remembered that this time. Don't give up. Iowa State played an amazing game, and I used to admire them as a foe, now I'm just disappointed. Oh and one more, there were Kansas people making fun of the Mayor's son crying. Not cool. We all get upset at our team losing. Add that to his dad is the coach, he's 7 and the game went well beyond his probable bedtime, I'd cry if I was him. Don't make fun of kids.

DCLawHawk 8 years, 8 months ago

Agree about crying son. They had won 22in a row at home. The kid may literally not remember the last time he saw them lose. I doubt he goes on road trips.

Robert Brock 8 years, 8 months ago

Hoiberg needs to teach a little more D; letting Kansas score so easily was the Clone downfall.

Casey Gee 8 years, 8 months ago

It is sad that an otherwise excellent game was spoiled by the poor officiating and the poor fan response by Iowa St. I have always thought of Hilton as a very good college atmosphere with hospitable fans. Somewhat like a smaller version of Allen Fieldhouse. However, I truly cannot imagine fans at AFH universally throwing objects at the opposing team or charging at the coach of the opposing team (even if only to yell in his face). I know we certainly didn't after Marcus Smart's backflip or Phil Forte's late unnecessary lay-up.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 8 months ago

Brock's comment on the Cyclone defense begs the question on our defense, right?

It is simple, really. It goes to our inability to guard a small team, where Withey's matchup can hit the three. Withey just can't guard out on the floor. Not surprising.

Last season, vs. MU, Withey sat in favor of Teahan. We had to adjust to MU's small lineup, not the other way around.

We will have problems with any team (of a decent skill level) that does this.

Compounding our problems was the ISU strategy when they were on defense. They completely sagged off of KY. Go back and watch. He gets it high and his defender is play 50/50 .. equal distance between KY and the basket. He was easy help on Withey, or a drive. KY did a nice job every so often, but without a "high" 4 that can bury the 15 footer two out of three times (as Self was quoted earlier this season), the defense can be effective.

Self went small with Releford at the 4 for long stretches, and that obviously helped.

Against a "small" lineup, we aren't athletic on the defensive end in the post to continue to play conventional -- because of Withey. And Withey's effectiveness is partially nullified. Look at his block totals (he still changes shots, just not as much when he's stretched out on the floor).

Late game, when Withey fouled out, Ellis was the only post player in the game. I also think KY could survive in that situation, too.

If we lose that game at ISU, the main topic of conversation would have been the outrageous number of points our "defense first" team gave up.And why it happened. No doubt. And it should be the topic now, too.

Self has to find the right formula to combat the small, athletic lineup. Something beyond winning in OT. If you're a lower seeded team in the NCAA, that should be the first thought in a game vs. KU. Play small. Less minutes for Withey is the best solution, I think, in those situations.

Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to go small -- Tharpe, EJ, McLemore, Releford, and Withey -- just like Self has done. When it is apparent that Withey's man is stretching the floor too much and diminishing Withey's effectiveness, I'd go right to Ellis and take out Withey. Further, I'd consider Ellis more and more when teams are sagging off KY at the 4 because Ellis is a better 15 foot shooter than KY. We could also play KY and Ellis together. Beating a dead horse here, but White could be useful as a small 4 -- though that ship is sailing out of port right now.

A herculean effort by EJ saved us vs. ISU's small attack. That's the best formula to attack KU right now. It negates our defensive advantage with Withey.

And playing small might be a bit of a preview of what could be our best lineup for 2013-14, too.

John Boyle 8 years, 8 months ago

Bill Self has won 500 division one games, how many have you won? Let's leave the coaching up to him. Thank you for your time.

dylans 8 years, 8 months ago

What's wrong with speculation? A little armchair coaching? It's passion.

Bill Self is a fantastic coach, but is not infallible. Bill has lost. Bill has been out-coached. It just happens so infrequently that it is hard to question most of what he does, but Bill is a man (superman) and men are fallible.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 8 months ago

dylans .. right on, there.

Folks like JayhawkJohn have so much to offer, once they get their nose out of coach Self's backside. But I'm guessing he enjoys the view.

hawk_of_ages 8 years, 8 months ago

Hey, anybody has the right to question the coach, especially considering that we easily could have lost that game. But it is interesting that after describing our problem against teams like Iowa State, you arrive at the same strategy Self actually used -- go with the small lineup.

Our future opponents can't simply watch tape of this game and plan to duplicate what Iowa State did. Iowa State is one of the five highest-scoring teams in the country (at least that's what Hoiberg said in an interview yesterday). "Play like Iowa State" isn't a strategy -- you have to actually have the players to do it. Yes, we're always going to have trouble defending teams that can pull this style off, but that's the personnel we have. Withey is our best post player, so we need him out there even if he's not able to be as dominant on defense as he is against most teams -- Ellis certainly isn't the answer on defense at this point in his career, nor is AW3.

I remember after we escaped Purdue in last year's tourney, a lot of commenters here were lamenting Withey's ineffectiveness against their small, hot-shooting lineup and suggesting we shouldn't recruit traditional 5-men like him any more. Of course, then Withey proceeded to make huge defensive plays that propelled us to victory against NC State, UNC, and Ohio State, and broke the tournament blocks record. You just never know what you're going to face in the tourney, but I'm pretty happy with the rotation we have.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 8 months ago

Not exactly what Self has done this season, Self has pretty much stuck with Withey in the game if he goes small. The little glimpse we got of Ellis as the sole post player was after Withey fouled out. I think tit would be really wise to consider, in a game like Monday's, to go small with Ellis.

And on the "play like Iowa St." thing, try this. Let's say KU is 19-9. Makes the NCAA tourney as a 10 seed. Plays a 2 or 3 seed of KU's caliber and personnel. We have our same personnel, too, but we're just not as good .. since we're 18-9 and our opponent is 24-4. What do you do? We don't have ISU's personnel either.

However, we could say 1) we're playing our game, period. Playing conventional. Best team wins, or 2) we could be creative. Sit Withey and KY. Start Tharpe and Ellis, understanding that our only real chance of winning is changing to capitalize on the weakness of our opponent. That's what I mean.

You lament the defense. But did you see Withey trying to guard the perimeter Monday? If you did, you wouldn't lament it.

Further, on the recruiting "traditional 5-men", I like having one, but I don't like the game as much with a true 5. I like it when we can exploit it, but I don't like the weaknesses it provides .. see ISU. See MU. See Purdue as you mentioned (great example of a lesser team we about lost to because of the mismatch -- thank you to Teahan for the big 3 by the way).

I think you can't always have a true 5 in today's game, or you get exploited as we did Monday night. Our D would have been better without Withey on the floor most of that game, in favor of more mobile, athletic body who could guard the perimenter. You can't be married to your true 5. That was the point of my post.

hawk_of_ages 8 years, 8 months ago

I think you give Withey too little credit. Sure, he has trouble getting out on 3-point shooters, but where do you get the idea that Ellis or White or Traylor can do it better? And would they have provided the 13 points and 10 boards that Withey gave us even when saddled with foul trouble?

It's important to match up, but you don't want to give up your assets to do so. Self benched Withey in the Mizzou and Purdue games last year mainly to protect Thomas Robinson from having to chase guards around the perimeter. Now it's Withey who is our primary post threat, so it's a huge gamble to bench him for matchup purposes. I'm not saying it couldn't work, but I'm not convinced.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 8 months ago

I can't disagree more. Withey cannot guard at all on the perimeter. If he has to guard on the perimeter, it's a disaster. Ellis, Traylor, and White are faster/quicker, and obviously can guard the perimeter better than Withey. Remember at the Sprint Center vs. Oregon St. I think when Self subbed Wesley in for Withey at the end of the game? It was because they were switching screens out top .. Withey can't do it.

Withey took a seat last year because TRob couldn't guard those guys on the perimeter, not because Self didn't want TRob chasing them. TRob couldn't do it effectively. I guess you could be right that Self didn't want him doing it .. but that would be related to picking up stupid fouls because he couldn't keep up.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 8 months ago

I think we play their game .. generally, we're better. Better players. I hate to mention AW3 in nearly all of my posts, but the Belmont game showed what he could do in that small 4 role. It was lethal. It can be lethal. But Releford there is just as nice. He can bang down the 15 footer.

With Traylor-Ellis, yes, we can guard the perimeter better I think. But I doubt well enough. The tough match would be if their 4 is more like a Releford, or English. TRob couldn't stick with English. I bet Ellis can't stick with a Releford type.

Our 2013 personnel -- we could go with Tharpe, Selden, Adams/Greene, White, and Ellis. Could that be our best lineup talent-wise next season? If so, play them. Don't play Traylor if he's not one of the top 5.

If Randle comes, uh, we'll adjust.

WETSUhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

HEM, don't forget about one of our two seniors next year - Justin Wesley. I'm hoping he will challenge for a starting spot. I believe he is a bigger version of KY, if he shows the energy that KY has, he will earn 20 min a game.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 8 months ago

WETSUhawk: I am sorry, if Wesley starts it is a sure sign of the apocalypse. He can't beat out Traylor now. It would spell the end of KU basketball as we know it. Are you Wesley's brother .. Keith, is that you? .

By the way, he'll be the only senior next season.

WETSUhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

I may be wrong but I thought Niko Roberts will be a senior next season.

I was going to write a long (not Jaybate long) explanation of why I believe JW may get his next season, but let's wait till we're done celebrating this year.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

I bet there's only 1 or 2 other teams out there w/ ISU's style of spread all 5 out and all shoot the 3.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 8 months ago

Remember, you don't have to spread out all 5. All you have to do is create a matchup between the 4s where you can't guard .. like TRob on English last season. MU had a bigger post guy.

Micky Baker 8 years, 8 months ago

I have no problem with farmers of any kind. During my first summer between freshman and sophomore years I worked on a farm. This farm was not just corn and wheat. There were 2500 head of hogs and we did crop dusting. I worked on the crop dusting. The hours, 5:30 am to 10:00 pm during the busiest parts of the seasons. Up before the crack of dawn, first one at the hangar to pull the aircraft out on the tarmac. Wax the wings so the bugs wash off easier after the sunsets. Wash the windows of the planes and the choppers. Fuel them up, get the first loads loaded. Then the pilots arrive and fire 'em up and here we go. Farmers aren't hillbillies. Kansas is an agricultural state as well. Go try it if you think you're so bad. It isn't a 9 to 5 job.

"And on the ninth, day" Paul Harvey.

Alex Graves 8 years, 8 months ago

One thing that I haven't seen anyone talk about is how well Perry Ellis played. With 8pts and 6rebs off the bench. Hit some nice mid-range jumpers and made most of his shots in close. It would be an nice boost of the bench if we can get those numbers from him the rest of the season!

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

Good point. The play of Ellis gave me MUCH confidence for the future. He is going to be really good.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

My only real problem with Ellis is he's got butterfingers.

Seems to do ok 1-on-1 actually, but if Tharpe has a nice assist to him it seems to slip off his fingers. Seems to have a similar problem holding on to the ball on rebounds. :(

CHEEZIT 8 years, 8 months ago

Did I miss it? It sure didn't seem like the coaching staff put up much of a stink when Withey supposedly got his fifth foul that they gave to Young. It may not be reviewable but it didn't seem like they were too upset.

Phoggie_Thinking 8 years, 8 months ago

I really don't think the ISU staff realized it until much later. Self on the other hand spun Withey around and sent him back into action. Genius!

Cameron Cederlind 8 years, 8 months ago

Can anyone here answer me this: The no call benefits neither team and was definitely a bad no call but the reaching foul on the ground, did Tharpe not make that wide open 3 after EJ passed it to him? That would have had KU winning the game in regulation instead of forcing a possible OT with 2 free throws. So in the end, wouldn't the call on the ground have benefited ISU in that it didn't allow Tharpe a wide open 3 and also forced EJ to make 2 shots to stretch the game? That was my thought after watching the replay multiple times.

Joel Thomas 8 years, 8 months ago

Tharpe missed, but the whistle had already blown. All players had pretty much stopped by the point he shot it. There was enough time between the whistle and the shot that I don't think you can say the result of his shot was representative of what would have happened.

seagull 8 years, 8 months ago

The Cyclone team and coach may boost college basketball--they are certainly fun to watch--but Monday's fans didn't. Apparently the fans wanted to prove ESPN announcers Musberger and Fraschilla wrong for their positively glowing descriptions of the nice ISU fans. For all their passion, KU fans might boo the refs, but they'd never boo or throw things at opposing players for winning. Perhaps in addition to teaching defense and mental toughness, Hoiberg also needs to teach fans what it means to be a winner (which also means losing with class). It's hard to imagine a man with his reputation and game demeanor would condone such fan behavior. But as the mayor, he is the one who can lead a charge to change it.

Al Martin 8 years, 8 months ago

Well, we did throw hot dogs at Curtis Redding before a K-State game once...

BainDread 8 years, 8 months ago

Unfortunately, KU fans frequently threw things on the court in the 70s - as did fans at many schools. It was quite a problem for a while. In general, fan behavior is much better now than it was 40 years ago.

Alan Braun 8 years, 8 months ago

We threw stuff on the court all the time when I was a student - 1969-73. That doesn't happen anymore and hasn't for a long time

FL_Jhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

Yep, I was there and saw it a couple of times. As I recall, it was during the games and directed at the refs. Dumb fans, as ice would rain down on the side of court our team sat on.

KU fans aren't all perfect. It was just a few ISU folks who behaved bad, and there are a lot of people who hate KU because of a few arrogant KU fans.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

I don't recall a single instance since '91....someone said since L. Brown's first year.

Bob Bailey 8 years, 8 months ago

Good knowledgeable comments. Just be good enough you can win in spite of 'incmpetent officiating'. We were. We did. Keep it up!

dylans 8 years, 8 months ago

Given Withey's difficulty guarding on the perimeter, would a new defense be in order? Maybe the reverse box in 1? Withey plays zone d in the lane - the enforcer position. Everyone else plays man D. This wouldn't work against a team that can shoot 3s at all 5 spots like ISU, but would work where the 5 is just used as a decoy to draw Jeff out of the paint.

Dale Stringer 8 years, 8 months ago

I think Withey is good at perimeter defense when he fully plays it. The problem is he is also the paint defender. So he plays a 60/40 player to paint defense. This is so he has a chance to defend the paint is one of our other players get beat to the basket. Just watch him better next time. Right when his man gets the ball on the outside, Withey's right there. As soon as he sees his man look for a breaker, he releases some to be able to guard the paint. This then gives his guy a shot (if that guy is allowed too) and a quick step on a drive to Withey back side. If everyone else would guarantee that their man wasn't getting beat, then Withey's man wouldn't be so easy to shot against outside.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 8 months ago

Buddha .. I'm sorry. I could drive around Withey even if he's focused on perimeter defense. Near zero lateral quickness. Someone see something I don't? He is a monster at in "paint defense" as you mention. Outside of the paint, he's like a fish flopping on the dock.

hawk_of_ages 8 years, 8 months ago

Wow. Again, you are being way too hard on one of the best defensive players in the nation. If he had "near zero lateral quickness" he wouldn't be able to guard the paint either, and he certainly could not have executed that excellent hedge against Marcus Smart that helped seal the win for us in Stillwater.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

That's what I was thinking.

I guess HEM's the one I've seen say that multiple times 'cause I haven't seen anyone else say that.

If he has zero lateral quickness outside, then name ONE center who we've had that's quicker? I can't think of one!!!

Ostertag?!?!? LMAO! Talk about "lumbering".

Other options include: Padgett, Pollard, Aldrich, LaFrentz, Chenowith, Pauley, Simien (I guess he was a C), Graves, Kaun.

Only one of those I'd give a quickness edge to would be Simien who would've been playing out of position since he's a PF.

hawk_of_ages 8 years, 8 months ago

Well, he doesn't seem to have much love for the 5-spot in general, so maybe that's his point. Some of those guys you list were pretty slow and lumbering, but I wouldn't put Jeff in that category--not by a long shot.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 8 months ago

Nothing mentioned relates to guarding a perimeter player. My point is that it's a different ballgame. The "near zero lateral quickness" was a touch harsh .. I admit that. But in comparison to most perimeter defenders, that's probably true. Tell me which KU player, 1 through 13, is slower laterally?

hawk_of_ages 8 years, 8 months ago

I don't know. I wasn't privy to the results of the KU basketball combine like you apparently were. I've certainly seen no evidence that any of our bigs off the bench can defend better than Withey, outside or in.

Ryan Shelton 8 years, 8 months ago

The crowd in this situation reminds me of when Rex Walters got hit with a quarter in Manhattan in the 92-93 season. Rex was classy with the remark, saying only that he wishes he would have picked up the quarter because he could use the money!

fu7il3 8 years, 8 months ago

I'm at every KU home game. I've seen many instances where I was embarrassed by our own fans, and they rarely have a reason to be anything but happy at home. As far as the foul, I think some of us have our homer glasses on. It's okay to admit it was a bad call, they aren't going to take away the win. Put it in perspective. If they would have called a foul on T-Rob at the end of the Mizzou game last year, we would be reacting exactly like Iowa State fans are right now.

Joe Ross 8 years, 8 months ago

Why are you focused on fouls only at the end of the game? The Iowa State game was poorly officiated all the way through. True, it may have been decided by the refs. It also may not have been. There is a third option here too, though. The margin of victory might have been wider for Kansas or ended in regulation for Kansas if it weren't for the refs.

fu7il3 8 years, 8 months ago

I'm just saying that if you can't understand why their fans were angry, then you aren't being honest with yourself about how most Kansas fans would react if the situation was reversed. I never said that it wasn't a poorly officiated game.

bayareajhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

I would have been very upset had they called that foul on T-Rob, mostly because of the charge that was called at the end of the game in Columbia when Moore flopped like a salmon and the ref made his Hollywood call to fire up the meth heads. They got a crucial call at home and we got a crucial no-call at home. I would have been livid if it had not evened up like that.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

I don't think our crowd embarrasses us to much with the exception of the "Bullshi! Bulllshi!" chants to some bad calls but I think EVERY College Basketball crowd does that.

I haven't heard of instances of us throwing things on the floor like I've NOW heard of having happened at ISU, MU & KU since I started school at KU back in '91/'92.

Phoghorn 8 years, 8 months ago

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Phoghorn 8 years, 8 months ago

My bad. Phoghorn raises his hand at takes his personal foul.

JL 8 years, 8 months ago

The Cyclones didn't lose in regulation. They lost in overtime. They had the same opportunities in overtime that KU did-so people, quit whining about controversial calls in regulation time. There are always controversial calls--beginning, middle and end of the game. So suck it up and play overtime like you want to win--not fall apart. Jayhawks got the job done. Cyclones didn't--no matter what the calls were.

Jeffrey Nelson 8 years, 8 months ago

Winning style of basketball > exciting style of basketball


Pamela Shanks 8 years, 8 months ago

If we are going to consider all plays throughout the game, how big would the early technical foul shots have seemed if we lost by one. Am I remembering right? Did they make one and miss one? Agree with all the posters who point out that early play is as important as late play, early calls as important as late calls. It is the hardest part of any sport. Playing with intensity no matter what the clock says.

WETSUhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

That intentional foul was ridiculous. Rel reached and grabbed the jersey but released his grasp immediately. There was no advantage gained and thus should not have been called. Example of poor officiating. And I would be the first to ditto this comment had it been an ISU player on a KU player. That rule was placed to penalize a team that commits a foul preventing a break away basket. Rel in no way interfered with the beak away. By calling the foul, the ref could have taken the advantage away from ISU.

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