Tuesday, February 26, 2013

Big 12: Officiating errors were made at end of regulation in KU-ISU game


The Big 12 conference released the following statement Tuesday afternoon following Kansas' 108-96 overtime victory over Iowa State on Monday night in Ames, Iowa.

The Big 12 Conference acknowledges that officiating errors were made at the end of regulation during last night's Kansas at Iowa State men's basketball game. The plays have been reviewed and appropriate measures will be taken by the Coordinator of Men's Basketball Officials to adjust the number of future assignments for the two officials involved in conjunction with Conference policies.

With 6 seconds left in regulation and KU trailing, 90-88, Jayhawks point guard Elijah Johnson drove to the lane and made contact with Iowa State player Georges Niang. No foul was called on the play, and Niang was later whistled for a loose-ball foul against Johnson, who hit two free throws with 4.9 seconds remaining to send the game to overtime.

KU (24-4, 12-3 Big 12) is tied with Kansas State atop the conference standings.


thebcman 8 years, 8 months ago

What about the bogus charge call against Withey earlier?

DXJhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

Why would they want to focus on that? Most outsiders only think that Iowa State was screwed at the end of the game regardless that other bad calls were made during the rest of the game.

Regardless, it still took ice in the veins of EJ to make those 2 free throws to tie the game.

deepind 8 years, 8 months ago

And the basket interference by the ISU player (not Kevin Young!)?

Jeremy Bolinger 8 years, 8 months ago

They looked up at the screen to make the call, even though that you cant go back to the monitor to judge it. I mean, errors were obviously made on both sides.

Bursting 8 years, 8 months ago

They may have looked at the screen, but my slow-motion DVR showed that it was obviously an Iowa State player who grabbed the net....

Heavy10 8 years, 8 months ago

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flloyd 8 years, 8 months ago

You've got to admit, we get more bad/missed calls in our favor this year then I have seen over the last twenty or so years.

And when will Coach quit with the lizard-like tongue thing when he is nervous?

Jack Jones 8 years, 8 months ago

No, I don't have to admit anything like that > and I suspect you don't have any evidence of that statement having an ounce of credibility. AND " LIZARD-LIKE TONGUE THING".?? fll > you've just got to get more sleep.

Joseph Bullock 8 years, 8 months ago

you sound like a missouri or k-state fan! every great program, that has a large National following, gets favorable calls, because people like to see them win. just a simple truth. but make no mistake, K.U. has been on the short end of the officiating stick, many times this year. and quit nit picking about Coach. worry about yourself. I suppose you don't have any quirks, mr. perfect! right, whatever!

JayHok 8 years, 8 months ago

I never thought about it but that's true, the goal tending call would have been reviewed had ISU won. The commentators would have talked about it for days. It was two points also.

OT 8 years, 8 months ago

Leave the KU fans alone on this one. Afterall, it's the only sport they have or that anyone outside of lawerence knows anything about.

LakeShawnee 8 years, 8 months ago

A result based decision. If Iowa State had won, there would have never been a review. It makes me fear these officials will now think twice about making a call down the stretch that benefits KU.

John Fryback 8 years, 8 months ago

I could see a lot of close calls in the next 3 games going against Kansas.

Imagine if the BigXII office was to review the game last week in Stillwater. Let's review the clock stopping no less than 8 times, 2 + goaltending missed calls.

Ryan Zimmerman 8 years, 8 months ago

I agree... the sheer fact that they did this release, it's all not about the ENTIRE game, it's "KU won because of the blown call by the ref"... lame

Big 12 refs are far from elite. They screw up both ways all the time.

JayHok 8 years, 8 months ago

The guy that allowed the goal tending call.

John Randall 8 years, 8 months ago

Only one or two are usually in position for particular play. That is the ineptitude of the Coordinator's office pretending nothing else was questionable. That was as difficult a game for officials to call as any I have seen, and not just a few plays, either. I think at least one official was finally so fed up with blatant flopping by Niang all game that he just decided "Not this time, fish."

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

YES!!!! Niang EASILY became one of my LEAST FAVORITE players in the conference as of last night!!!!

Tom Longhofer 8 years, 8 months ago

That is a very interesting take on the no call. Thanks for the insight.

John Randall 8 years, 8 months ago

What does trepidation have to do with it? ;-)

Andrew Moore 8 years, 8 months ago

Ridiculous short-sighted statement. I realize most of you saw how throughout the entire game, ISU was getting plenty of so-so calls their way, most notably some of the fouls on Withey.... Why we only focus on one play at the end is beyond reason

JayHok 8 years, 8 months ago

Even if we get caught up in the end of the game can we confirm EJ wasn't fouled going in? The picture sure looks like it. Also it shows the defender's foot about 18 inches from where it will end up at contact. Why can't somebody logically discuss these finer details? Would love to see ESPN talking heads look at that. Pause when EJ's on the ground. Did he not get grabbed trying to pass to Tharpe?

Bursting 8 years, 8 months ago

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Bursting 8 years, 8 months ago

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Marcia Parsons 8 years, 8 months ago

I'm assuming ISU sent tape of the "offending" plays to the Big12 office. That's all they reviewed.

IgnorantYokel 8 years, 8 months ago

A better fan than me will get the game film and edit down all the calls/non-calls that went against KU.

Spencer Goff 8 years, 8 months ago

Biggest load of crap on the planet.

So let me get this straight, the ONLY calls that were screwed up were at the end of regulation in favor of KU?

Iowa State, a three point shooting team that doesn't look inside the paint, shot more free throws than KU. They blew two calls against Withey which was the reason he was in foul trouble in the first place. Most idiot watch bull$hit highlights and think KU got one for free.

Hey, Iowa State, I have an idea... Try not living by the three point shot. Just a thought.

ESPN is driving this because it is free publicity for Big Monday.

I am glad that kid cried. Hey Mom, your kid is a pu$$y. Did I say kid, sorry, I meant your fanbase.

Jerry Cross 8 years, 8 months ago

I agree. The calls were definitely biased against Withey & Young. Has Withey fouled out of a game this year?

prairie_rattler 8 years, 8 months ago

IMO... the Johnson/Niang charge/block/no call could have went either way... however, two more egregious (and inexcusable) calls that could have been checked by going to the monitor: 1) The Withey foul given to Young 2) The basket interference called on Young (after the refs consulted each other) when the reply clearly showed it was an Iowa State's player that grabbed the net.

Phoghorn 8 years, 8 months ago

The BIG 12 made a few other announcements after press time.

  1. Prior to tip off, the officials were huddled under the stands singing "rain makes corn, corn makes whiskey".

  2. There does not appear to be any evidence that the corn came from either Iowa or Kansas.

  3. The officials simply complied with KU's request for an extended stay at The Hilton.

  4. Footage of the game will be featured as part of a Buffalo Wild Wings commercial.

  5. The game must NEVER, EVER, be referred to as "The Great Snow Job of 2013.

  6. The BI6 has retracted their offer to admit both ISU and KU now that they have combined for over 200 points in one game.

  7. Classmates remember the angry fan as "the quiet kid who never caused any trouble".

  8. The fan simply wanted to do a Harlem Shake video with coach Self.

  9. Hilton Coliseum has been renamed "Hawktagon of Doom North".

  10. If KU and KSU remain tied atop the standings, there will be a tie-breaker game played somewhere in Africa.

Chris1955 8 years, 8 months ago

Literally laughed out loud for item 10.

Ryan Zimmerman 8 years, 8 months ago

Not that i know of... first time i believe

And it only took the refs an entire half to call the moving picks on ISU

I've seen Big 12 refs blow calls multiple times on both sides all season. I loved how the refs were holding a town hall meeting with all 5 ISU players when Young got his hand in the net. Morons

Larry 8 years, 8 months ago

I watched it four or five times in a row and it sure seemed to me that it was the ISU player's hand. Did anyone else see it this way?

Kip_McSmithers 8 years, 8 months ago

Watched it several times myself and I think the same thing. Will the Big12 release a presser that states the blew that call now???

Kit Duncan 8 years, 8 months ago

I saw Young's hand in the net while his arm was being pinned there by an ISU player. It could just as easily (and should) have been called as a foul on the ISU player.

Heavy10 8 years, 8 months ago

It was clearly a very dark hand that pulled down the net. Young's arm just isn't that dark. I also watched it several times in slow-mo...I thought that losing that basket was the worst call of the game. Did we play MU or ISU? The whining is SO annoying!

Kyle Sybesma 8 years, 8 months ago

One official even looked up at the video board.

BCRavenJHawkfan 8 years, 8 months ago

I've noticed this year that in a number of games the three officials do not have the same threshold of what constitutes a foul. This is what creates the problem.

jayhawklawrence 8 years, 8 months ago

There must have been a political reason for making this statement.

These refs were definitely favoring the home team most of this game.

I guess the fans had a right to throw trash at our players too?

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

The only one that I would say was SO EGREGIOUS AGAINST Iowa State was that one foul going on Young instead of Withey.....would've / should've fouled Withey out at that point (not saying that he had deserved all of his earlier fouls) fact have dispute with at least 3 of them.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 8 months ago

I nominate Kevin Young for best Supporting Actor by stepping in front of Jeff after Jeff obviously grabbed an ISU player and raised his hand and deflected the foul to himself thus keeping Withey from getting his fifth foul at that point!!!

Three refs, the announcers, the ISU team and the whole crowd missed it......I am pretty sure not one KU fan or player did, however...LOL!!!

Marcia Parsons 8 years, 8 months ago

The announcers didn't. They even replayed it.

texashawk10 8 years, 8 months ago

Only the refs missed it, the annoucers and fans knew that foul was on Withey.

John Fryback 8 years, 8 months ago

How many times is a better foul shooter sent to the line for a lower % shooter trying to deceive the officials and the opposite team. Bob Davis made mention of this a couple games ago, our opponent got by with it.

I have a feeling this is going to end badly.

rockchalkjh16 8 years, 8 months ago

...or the Oscar goes to Niang for the fine acting job after the flop.

Bill Woodard 8 years, 8 months ago

To all the haters out there complaining about officiating going KU's way last night, allow me to point out that the Jayhawks were whistled for 22 fouls to ISU's 19, and the Clones shot 29 of 34 from the line while KU was 21 of 27. More importantly, Iowa State's chuck-from-three offense is predicated on a lot of swinging (read questionable) screens. The refs finally called a moving pick late in the second half. I guarantee it wasn't the first one of the game. So. The critics can suck it. The zebras blew chunks in both directions. And yes, those guys aren't fit to call a YMCA game, let alone a Big 12 contest.

seagull 8 years, 8 months ago

The call did not, however, cause KU to win. As someone pointed out, EJ had to hit the free throws. Then ISU completely collapsed in the overtime. What a shame for them, but it's not the fault of the call. True we might not have gotten to overtime without the help but Withey would not have fouled out had questionable calls not been made on him. Perhaps the game would not have come down to that foul had he not fouled out. Good heavens, KU literally threw the ball away several times on inbounds plays toward the end to give ISU advantages. You can second guess these decisions as much as they might hurt. ISU had a chance to prove the call wrong on the floor, but couldn't. Next time.

TecmoSuperBowlChristianOkoye 8 years, 8 months ago

Come on, people. It's ok to admit that we were VERY fortunate those 2 or 3 calls went our way at the end. No one is going to take the win away.

jakejayhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

Thanks for posting this link. We were at the game last night (front row). Could not see the charge/no charge play at the other end. The replay looked like a charge. There were a lot of things not called throughout the game. Iowa State had every opportunity to win this game. They did not. We made great plays when we had to. It sucks for everyone that it ended as it did. KU Nation would be very angry if it happened to us. I dont remember the Big XII apologizing about the refs taking ponits off the board in last year's game in Columbia, not mention a foul not called against Tyshawn and two travels by Duke in Maui. I am just glad we got out with a win. Our guys fought hard in an atmosphere that was as challenging as any I have witnessed. Rock Chalk win.

William Foreman 8 years, 8 months ago

Nice point about the Duke travel in Maui. I remember thinking about how much that no-call sucked, but then again, you're not in a good position to win the game if you're so vulnerable to a bad call. Iowa State played great. I was most disappointed in the way the Cyclone fans went so quiet in the last couple of minutes - just when their team really needed them.

mom_of_three 8 years, 8 months ago

I don't know how they can focus on just the calls at the end of the game. Because if the calls were "wrong" at the end of the game, would you not think the same people made bad calls DURING the game? And which two are they dealing with?? Please tell me it was O'Neill and Whitehead!

jgkojak 8 years, 8 months ago

The ESPN crew were basically complaining you HAVE to call it one way or another - a CHARGE or a BLOCK - and its one of those that could have gone either way - if you watch, its not clear the ISU player had position on EJ.

So let's say they call it a BLOCK. The problem wasn't the no-charge call, it was the no-call.

(by the way, can we please let these guys review the Northern Iowa tape?)

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

I disagree....I would ACTUALLY say that a no-call WAS the right call in that situation. What else do you call an attempt to take a charge where you then flop before the guy gets to you. In that situation the no-call is the RIGHT call!!!!

I'm not even sure that this committee or whoever is mad about that call....difficult bang-bang call. 1) I'm not sure Elijah was fouled on the floor.....kind of a phantom call, but the stronger reason for this committtee being mad I think has to do with Withey's foul going to Young. I think THAT is reviewable and they could've gotten right and Withey fouled out.

Phaedrus Cj 8 years, 8 months ago

The Big 12 announcement is less than helpful if they dont explain what the errors were?

Are they second guessing judgment calls now?

These types of announcements are usually confined to misinterpretation of the rules. And an explanation of how the rules were misapplied.

You can expect retribution against KU during the next three conference games and the Big 12 Tourney.

Jack Jones 8 years, 8 months ago

Ain't gonna happen > relax everybody GAME OVER Great basketball game > GREAT CLUTCH MUST WIN FOR THE HAWKS IN A REALLY TOUGH ARENA - FIRST HOME LOSS OF THE SEASON > DOWN 8 WITH 90 SEC LEFT > WIN BY 12 > OUR PLAYERS WERE BETTER THAN THEIR PLAYERS. Iowa Head Coach Class Act " Final call didn't go our way - that's basketball." OFFICIATING IN ALL SPORTS > That's why we have the expression > YOU WIN SOME- YOU LOSE SOME.

justinryman 8 years, 8 months ago

OK it does not say which way the call should have gone, and it also says "plays have been reviewed" the s meaning more than one.

Yes there should have been a whistle, charge or a block call the foul don't swallow the whistle like an ex ISU coach does a beer at a sorority party.

It wold be outrageous if the Big12 would have said which way the call should have went, that would have fanned the flame even more. When a ref blows his whistle he only makes half the audience happy and he pisses off the other half. Just the nature of it.

Since the officials are contracted out and not employees of the Big12, they can not be reprimanded or let go, just reassigned to other games. They won't be doing any more prime time games or any major games like the Okst/Kst game.

Also why the Big12 is reviewing game tape, can they look at ISU and OKst's clock keepers. At both venues there was a lot of stoppage to get the clock right, never after the home team scored, but after Kansas did. That's like giving the home team an extra timeout or two, just to stop a run. I don't see a lot of clock issues if any at AFH.

And one last thing.

Stay calm and Rock Chalk Jayhawk!!!!

deepind 8 years, 8 months ago

Very good point about the clock keepers! I wish the league would take that into serious consideration. It should become a part of the game statistics - how many times were there clock issues and after which team scored?

FL_Jhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

I have noticed in many, many games that the clock won't stop following a basket. It only seems to be important in the last few minutes of a tight game. As with fouls, it really shouldn't matter if they happen in the middle of a game or in the last minute, but it does.

Sam Constance 8 years, 8 months ago

Like someone suggested above, I think they were reviewing something completely different than the block/charge no call. As noted, it's a bang bang play, and I'm of the impression that these official oversight people only review to look at things like procedural or technique or executional errors, not second guess heat-of-the-moment judgement calls.

If I had to guess which play(s) was/were reviewed, it would be the foul mixup between Withey and Young. That is not a judgement call, that is simply not doing your job attentively. The official who made the call needs to make sure the guy he called it on gets credit for it. Also, there is a chance that they review the goaltending call in the first half, from the standpoint that they shouldn't be looking up at the in-arena video board or consulting with one of the teams when conferring on a call.

BainDread 8 years, 8 months ago

I would agree except the league statement specifically said that the errors were at the end of the game. I'm not sure exactly when the goaltending call was made, but I think it fell outside my definition of the end of the game.

John Randall 8 years, 8 months ago

Regular season championships (in Big 12, and nearly all conferences) have no criteria except W/L record. When two or more teams finish with same record, co-championships are awarded.

The conference tournament seeding, of necessity, does apply other criteria in the case of ties. Those, however, have no effect on the regular season standings.

BTW, during the KU run of 8str8, at least a couple were co-champs.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 8 months ago

Actually with Oklahoma and two with Texas!!

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

I think I'd seen that K-State still has to go TO Ames AND Stillwater anyway. Good luck going 2-0 in those games 'cats. You'll need it!!!

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 8 months ago

K-State plays away games at Baylor and OSU and a home game with TCU. They already played (and lost) at Iowa State.

dylans 8 years, 8 months ago

At a quick glance this could be read as the noise your avatar would be making.

Currahee 8 years, 8 months ago

This review was absolutely ridiculous and unnecessary. I agree that the only reason why the Big 12 did this was to make Iowa State feel better about themselves about last night, and that there would not have been a review had it been called a charge. Maybe this is a sign that we're not wanted in the Big 12?

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

I bet there also wouldn't've been a review if Iowa State came back & won in overtime either.

Chris1955 8 years, 8 months ago

Now, see what happens when you make Hoiberg's 9 year old cry on national TV? The league decides that "errors were made".

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

I figure if any nine year old kid has to cry over a basketball game, at least he wasn't wearing crimson and blue.

joeloveshawks 8 years, 8 months ago

Last year in the title game EJ went up for a shot against Anthony Davis and then hesitated and put down a dribble. It was called a travel. That 3 ball would have cut the game to 3 points with under 30 seconds left. I will go to the grave thinking that that was a horrible call and it could have cost KU a chance at the title, but you can't blame the game on that call nor can you ever blame a game on one call. Games are made up of 40 minutes of great shots, incredible rebounds, timely steals and unfortunately some foul calls...of which some go your way and others do not. We got this call and we won the game but ISU still had all of OT to get it together and they failed to do so.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 8 months ago

Blame it on the two missed bunny dunks, one by Jeff and one by TRob that would have given us the ball with a two point deficit...shades of Mario, EJ hits a three pointer and KU rips out Calipari's heart again!!!!

Jesse Johnson 8 years, 8 months ago

It doesn't matter if you haven't used your dribble yet, you can't put the ball on the floor after jumping from both feet which EJ had. But I agree with your sentiment.

I always remember the bogus charge call on Aaron Miles in the first half of the 2003 title game. Syracuse immediately responded with a 3 meaning the bad call led to a 6 point swing in a game that was decided by 3 points. But I don't blame the refs for that loss. I blame us missing over a dozen free throws.

niemoth 8 years, 8 months ago

don't go to the grave thinking it was a bad call, cause it wasn't. I used to do that on purpose in neighborhood games all the time when I was young, but found out that it is a travel. If you go up for a shot and the refs interpret it as going up for a shot then you cannot put a dribble down in mid-air even if you haven't used your dribble yet.

tbbucboy21 8 years, 8 months ago

the refs should get suspended for how awful they officiated the first 39 minutes of the game. so many awful calls that went towards iowa state. how about those two fouls to start the game and the other charge on withey? how about the goaltending that went against eliah? the officials were garbage and easily allowed iowa state to hang around with the big boys (plus some alley opp three pointers and the most made 3s in school history). iowa state proved to be classless last night with with charging our coach, throwing at our players, and posting racist comments over social media. isu should be reprimanded for their classless and embarrassing actions

singingadman 8 years, 8 months ago

So the Big 12 Conference's "Coordinator of Men's Basketball Officials" said that "measures will be taken" because of the officiating calls at the end of regulation? How about the beginning of regulation? How about the entire game? From the very beginning of the game, you would almost think that some elite Des Moines or Ames business man made a "pay-off" to those refs. The Jayhawks simply out played them, just like they did at Stillwater last week. And congratulations to Bill Self, EJ and the rest of the team for a fantastic job in a very hostile environment. I used to like the Iowa St. fan base, but after last night's display of throwing cups and cheap plastic megaphones at EJ as he walked off the court, I will now put them in the same catagory as Missouri fans, worst ever!

johninkc1 8 years, 8 months ago

I will be happy to admit we were fortunate on the late no call if the refs, ISU fans and coaches will admit that most of the calls during the first 39 minutes favored ISU regardless of the foul totals. The no call was just that, a no call. After further review, it appears that the defender's feet were not set, sorry Fran. The refs didn't have a clue and went with the no call. Better than an ISU inspired outcome like the goal tend call which was swayed by the ISU players and video folks. Sometimes, the most fair thing to do when you (read refs) don't know the right call, let the players decide the game which is what happened. I am sorry (not) that the ISU fans and coaches showed little class in defeat as well. Our players probably needed some mega phones and trash to take home with them. At least the Prophet apologized for his dunk which I loved by the way.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 8 months ago

We had some calls at the end go our way. The refs tried to make up for it in OT, but ISU didn't capitalize. Nothing they can really do about it after the fact...

I just hope EJ can swing that momentum into multiple games.

master16 8 years, 8 months ago

Let's not get carried away with refs hating KU for 39 minutes of regulation. The officiating was questionable going both ways. I'm not going to go with the 'officiating was pro-ISU first 39 minutes' argument because that makes us a bunch of whiners, especially after winning. Johnson should have been called for a charge, and if you only look at the final minute of regulation then absolutely we stole one. However, put into consideration the obvious charge call against Withey when Niang had his right foot in the air (which could not be more obvious to 3 officials) then that is the great equalizer. Eye for an eye. Also, if Withey doesn't get that cheap charge call, he is not in foul trouble which not only trumps but completely annihilates their argument to him getting 6 fouls (which also was a bad call because Young did not touch their player) because if they didn't get called for that charge, he would only have 4 and not be in risk of fouling out. So to be fair, that one terrible call against Withey was made up by the no call against Johnson. Fair is fair. Nothing left to argue.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

Problem being there was no charge on can't take a charge when you're flopping or should I say falling prior to contact.

master16 8 years, 8 months ago

then we have a different opinion. i saw the replay at least 15 times and i would have absolutely no problem (probably pissed off at the time, but after re watch in slow motion would calm down) if they called a charge on him in real time. when there is contact like that, you must call either a charge or a block.

Luke Kading 8 years, 8 months ago

My thoughts are this:
Yes, Kansas was fortunate at the end of regulation. It probably should have been a charge against Elijah at the end there, but the charge/block call is missed ALL THE TIME during college games. Obviously, the other one that sticks out in this game is when Niang didn't even have both feet on the ground as he tried to twist and contort his body to get in front of Jeff Withey in the second half. I thought there were plenty of bad calls throughout this WHOLE GAME, with a fair amount going against each team.

Yes, the foul at the end regulation was undoubtedly committed by Withey. Somehow three refs missed that. However, I'm not sure how much of a difference it would have made at that point in the game. Kansas was down late and needed quick scores, which does not favor Withey, and I don't really remember him doing anything in OT before he actually did foul out.

Overall, I thought Kansas played well enough to beat a good team that was really hot. Their perimeter defense wasn't very good, but some of those shots were well guarded. Elijah was huge and absolutely took the game over down the stretch. Even more important than the win may have been the fact that he showed everyone what he is capable of and hopefully now has the confidence to take over games as we head into tournament time. I've said all along and I'm guessing that Self felt the same way, that in order for this team to have a shot at a national championship, he has to be a big time play maker and shot maker, and because of that I think Self had no choice but to let him play his way through his slump.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 8 months ago

Officials usually suck. We did receive a gift, because when a call is blown at the end of the game, it has a more direct impact on the eventual outcome. We can accept that. The nice thing is that ISU didn't have it completely taken away. They had a chance still in OT. But it was a charge. When you receive a gift, you say thank you.

But over the long term, winners win, and losers lose. Things average out.

Matt Strausz 8 years, 8 months ago

Why stop there lets review the whole game and see who got more "bad" calls. But this raises two questions.

  1. What is their excuse for the rest of the late game rally that eventually ended in us tying it?

  2. Was ISU not allowed to participate in OT to decide the outcome of the game? Oh yes that is correct they were, unfortunately only EJ showed up in CrUnCh Time.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

The funnies thing is that I'm not sure that any errors DID occur in that final sequence. I DEFINITELY see no problem with the no-call ont he block / charge deal. Niang WAS falling / flopping before Elijah's contact with him.

I COULD see arguments that Lucious SHOULD HAVE been called for a reach-in and MAYBE you could argue that Elijah was NOT fouled on the floor after the collision......but those would be the only final seconds deals that I could see. Now I think it says final minute. That would include the attributing the one foul to Young instead of Withey which I think was the worst one in reality.

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 8 months ago

Just in Big Xii makes officials work meaningless big xii games. The officials have been assigned to work all remaining Iowa state games.

David Howell 8 years, 8 months ago

Are there any announcers who have ever liked KU on ESPN/CBS/ABC ? Franschilla "My Son Sits at the End of the Bench at OU" never seems to have anything good to say and revels in trying to seeing KU struggle in certain games.

Iowa State to me screwed themselves. They were out of there minds from 3 pt. range, but late in the game and overtime ISU choose to shoot hurried 3 pt. shots instead of making us play defense and most likely fouling when and if they would drive to the bucket. There is no doubt that our guards and bigs would have fouled out if not sooner had they kept driving to the bucket. Our guards can't guard much and when they get beat they foul or cause our bigs to foul. Watching Withey try to control / guard Niang outside the paint was painful. They boy does not have a lot of foot speed !

And what is up with McLemore ? Has the league figured him out or does he not have the will to work to get open ? Surely Bill has some plays with screens to get him moving and open ........

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

Honestly, when Bob Knight used to do Big Monday's he was almost always VERY glowing of us to be honest.

Bob Hechlor 8 years, 8 months ago

Elijah was hit by two players when he went up for that shot. I think that is a good reason to make it a no call or to call an Iowa player who hit him first. I personally think officiating this year, on a whole, has been very bad. They appear to be much more inconsistent and because of that, the players never know how to play the game. I don't think Iowa was more wronged than KU last night. I think rather than to bring this down to two plays, the whole game needs to be looked at, as well as other games this year. I think the coach went after the refs early on, because he is getting tired of the ambiguous calls that have been made and frankly often lead to KU having a much more difficult time maintaining a game plan. There are a lot of teams this year that are very in your face and slapping at our players on a constant basis and it is rare that a foul is called for that. That would be the reason for a lot of steals and turnovers. I also don't see how players get away with pushing other players out of bounds and they end up with the ball. The game was not played like that when I was playing. Why did it change?

Steve Reigle 8 years, 8 months ago

There were many bad calls including the phantom flagrant one call against Releford. Correct any of these calls, not just the one reviewed, and the outcome of the game is affected. Nobody knows how the game would have turned out should all the correct calls been made. So let's get past this and get on with life.

LLH 8 years, 8 months ago

I can sum up this officiating debate in a few big calls, which, happen in every game. Withey had two charges against him, one was iffy at best and the other was a completely blown call. He also received a foul on the arm against Niang in which he never even touched him. He also got a freebie that should have belonged to Young. ISU was guilty of basket interference but it was called on Young. EJ probably charged on Niang. Withey's travel in OT was the direct result of a foul that preceeded it, and was not called. These are just the ones I remember and the ones that stick out. The non KU fans and media seem to think that this game was swung on "one" call at the end of the game, puh-leez. Let's not discredit a great effort by both teams by focusing on one call that could have easily went either way at the end of the game. ISU had their chances, outcoached, outplayed, and out executed was a bigger factor than any "one" call. I'll leave my opinion at that though I could easily add more statistical evidence as to how bad the officiating crew was across the board and for the entire game, not just the last two minutes.

David Gisi 8 years, 8 months ago

I don't understand why everyone is assuming that Withey got an extra foul that was "wrongfully given to Young." The whistle was pretty late on that foul. Withey was clearly trying to foul, and did, but Young had already got over and reached across at the ball before a foul was whistled. Unless that ref speaks up about that call. You can just as easily assume that he missed the foul Withey committed and was actually calling the foul against Young. The stupid announcers just assumed that since Withey was pretty clearly trying to foul, that it should have been attributed to Withey. They never considered that maybe that wasn't the foul the ref was calling, that he actually intended to call the foul on Young.

Geezer 8 years, 8 months ago

Curtis Shaw is the Supervisor of Officials. nuf said.

kay_you 8 years, 8 months ago

It was a bad call but I'll take it. Sucks when you're on the losing end of mistake by refs but it happens. It's part of the game which is no consolation for ISU but we know what it feels like too. College basketball may be the worst officiated game in all of sports with the exception of international boxing.

Martin Rosenblum 8 years, 8 months ago

"...appropriate measures will be taken by the Coordinator of Men's Basketball Officials to adjust the number of future assignments for the two officials .."

What does this really mean?

Over what time period will the "adjustments" be made?

Why not just put a note in their "permanent records"?

Better yet, have them attend a few practices and participate as the "charge/block" drills are being conducted. Better insight could be gained from personal experience.

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 8 months ago

As a note refs are contractors and not employees. If you had permanent records you would be up for a class action lawsuit.

All this means is that they are assigned the non prime games.

KUAlum88 8 years, 8 months ago

That statement couldn't be more noncommittal. I'm sure ISU fans think it's vindication, but it doesn't say, "Yes, Iowa State fans, keep whining because you were robbed." "Officiating mistakes were made" could very well mean EJ was hacked on his way to the basket, or that officials should've called a blocking foul on Niang, and EJ should've gone to the line before everyone ended up in a pile on the floor. The Big 12 very carefully avoided saying anything specific.

KUFan90 8 years, 8 months ago

Absolutely agree. They could have been referencing that the foul called on Kevin Young should have been on Withey. Since they don't describe which calls were bad there's no way of knowing what they are even referencing. This is a ridiculous statement by the league.

rockchalkjh16 8 years, 8 months ago

Iowa State fans clearly have a major case of sour grapes and poor sportsmanship. They say their team was robbed of a victory because of the officiating. Apparently, what they've failed to take notice of is the other 44 and a half minutes of the game. There were so many calls and no calls that went against KU. For example, the blocking foul against EJ, the charge against Withey, the traveling by ISU on at least a couple of occasions.... I could go on, but you get the point. Reviewing the footage of that last play in regulation, you can see that the defender did not get into position to take the charge and he flopped. That would make that a blocking foul and EJ goes to the line anyway.

The hard truth for Iowa State is that they shouldn't have even have had to be in that position at the end of the game anyway. They didn't put that game away (in regulation OR overtime) and now they want to cry foul about something that happens in every basketball game. It's easy to say games like this aren't fair when you're the losing team, but the truth is that it was a really explosive, well played basketball game (on both sides) from start to finish and the team that was able to gut it out won.

Brad Watson 8 years, 8 months ago

There are a lot of bang..bang...plays in the course of a game...sometimes you get a call ..sometimes you don' focus on the last play of a game is human nature...but the foul on Johnson when Self was teed an example...the calls early are as important as the late game normally evens out...officials are human...ISU had a chance to close us out..and they failed...we kept fighting...and we deserve the win...the advice i would give to all fans is...don't worry about the officiating..they don't win and lose games ..players do...also officials are under a microscope and are graded after every game...and the man on the baseline did not have the same angle as the tv camera..and did not have the luxury of looking at it in slow motion..its bang bang

Write2Know 8 years, 8 months ago

"You know what this is about, don't you? ...That's what made the difference today in the game. That's what made the difference in the call ... Dollar signs."

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 8 months ago

The statement by the Big 12 is disingenuous and biased as it appears to indicate that the calls at the end were the only bad calls and that obviously favored KU.
A better wording would have been:
"Several bad calls were made throughout the game that affected both teams.The league will review the entire game and take appropriate action."
I would like to think that KU has communicated its displeasure to the Conference.

vd 8 years, 8 months ago

ISU lost because of the blown Whithey 5th foul given to Young. After that call JW dominated, scoring numerous points, pulling down many rebounds, and blocking shots. Lest we forget all the steals and assists he had after that call. Ellis couldn't have equalled those dominating stats.

RockChalkDoc 8 years, 8 months ago

How about the charge on Travis in the second half when it was an OBVIOUS block?

And an excellent point by sbendjayhawk!

Brad Watson 8 years, 8 months ago

bad calls are made in every game...from start to finish...because the game is so fast and officials are just have to learn to live with it and not let it effect you..duh...we have won games...and we have lost games...but it isn't the officials...its the players and coaching decisions

WisconsinJayhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

I think what happened with the refs in the final regulation sequence was that they saw the borderline/probable reach-in by Lucious, raking Johnson's arm as he drove, and thought "the refs shouldn't decide this, play on". Then Johnson commits a borderline/probable charge, but since they just let one borderline probable foul go, they couldn't call a different borderline probable foul just a half-second later against the other team, having decided "play on" was the right decision in the first instance.

Brad Watson 8 years, 8 months ago make a very astute comment...good job...excellent analysis

WisconsinJayhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

Also, I see this as a simple one-to-one trade off: the early charge call on Withey and the late no-call on Johnson.

Niang got a VERY favorable call-- charging on Withey-- earlier when Withey was driving to the basket. That should have been Withey shooting two-- likely 2 points.

Then Niang was on the other end of a questionable call at the end that resulted in 2 points and a tie (thanks to EJ coolly dropping them both).

If we had the 2 points from the FT we clearly should have earlier, it would ALREADY have been a tie game with 4.9 seconds to play.

So, we lost 2 points, then gained 2 points, on two bad calls involving Niang.

Perfect turnabout if you ask me.

Sparko 8 years, 8 months ago

I think this press release is among the most stupid things I have ever seen. The call was a 50/50 at best. No call was actually better than botching it. Just because ESPN later showed the flop in slow-mo doesn't even clear it up for me. Since several calls were blown THE ENTIRE GAME, why focus on this unless trying to discredit a Kansas team which outplayed ISU. Reminds me of 1985 Cardinals fans who seem to forget Game 7. This game went to OT. And after KU was jobbed on numerous other calls, this is just rank. The refs blew the game in Columbia last year, and yet never alerted the press. . .

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

Dislike. NOTHING the same.

The block / charge here is debatable. That play at first wasn't....almost a FULL stride there.

Sparko 8 years, 8 months ago

My point? Cardinals whined about that call and yet, there was a game 7. A whole game like an overtime to right wrongs and back up the bravado. Twice ISU has been exposed in OT.

TexasRockChalk 8 years, 8 months ago

What is with the national hate campaign against KU all of a sudden? Brent and Fran at the end of the game and then, today, EVERY time I turn on ESPN radio in the car, they have to say "Kansas sneaks by Iowa State with the help of some very questionable officiating." Ridiculous! If you want to rail on the officiating, then look at "BODY OF WORK" as Fran is so fond of saying himself!!

KU was the victim of at least half dozen bogus charging, block, foul calls. No ONE call decides a game. Period.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

Probably best post I've seen on here yet. I'm almost MORE mad at ESPN than the Iowa State fans' posts....of COURSE, they'll be biased.

But Fran comes off as such a Cyclone apolgist like they got so "robbed" and the like. Really aggravating.

master16 8 years, 8 months ago

this is the reason why i am ok with the refs not calling the charge (in my opinion it is a charge, and i saw it replay a bunch of times)

we lose one, we gain one. it's fair.

Virtualking 8 years, 8 months ago

This game was no different than a lot of other games this year in all the major NCAA match-ups. The officials arent even trying to officiate the game, theyre trying to regulate the action. They(NCAA) need to figure out the difference , and convey to the officials that there is a big difference between calling a game even and calling a game fairly.. I say they need to stop calling them even, just to make calls back and forth, and pinpoint the team which actually makes the mistakes and the fouls. If you want to review the ISU vs. KU game, youd have to come to the conclusion that had Iowa State won that game, then they would have stolen it. I saw a KU team that should have been ahead by 6 to 10pts. early, and continually was the recipient of bad calls , in my opinion, to keep the game even, but not call the game fairly. This type of game has become typical for KU fans to have to tolerate while we watch our team called early and often for what should be no calls, which feels like an apparent attempt to kill their drive as the game progresses, but KU has seen it so many times that it has become a part of the routine for both fans and players to ignore the erroneous "business" of the NCAA's newest "idea" to try to keep the sport interesting. Sure I may be off a little, but I guarantee you they dont call them fair.

kranny 8 years, 8 months ago

This may be way out of line but there also needs to be a batch of younger or more athletic refs in the league, some guys who can get up and down the court. As a ref I know I have a huge advantage if I can get back and get under the basket to check contact than if I'm trailing the play and watching contact from the free throw line extended. I can't remember how many time this year I've seen calls made from a poor vantage point because the refs can't get down the court.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

Didn't really see it called even, even. :) At the end of regulation and they'd had 35 FTA's to Kansas's 23?!?!?!?!! This from a team that at that time had something like 37 3Pt. Atts.?!?!??! 41 once all was said and done when considering OT!!!!

Meanwhile, with the exception of Elijah's hot stroke and a couple from Tharpe & Releford late, KU kept going inside only to have double-triple team hackers flailing away and have that many less FTA's?!?!?! Something doesn't smell right there.

I remember the one when they double-teamed Tharpe WAY out on the floor and they were LITERALLY looking like they were intentionally fouling.....this was with what? I don't know like 8 or 9 mins. left. They ACTUALLY got called for that one and the crowd went nuts like they should be allowed to pretty much rape us!!! LOL!!!

Brad Watson 8 years, 8 months ago

virtual....nice post...well thought out ....excellent!

Mark Soeken 8 years, 8 months ago

Bad calls are made ALL the time. Last night was no exception. Both ways the calls were questionable. Maybe some of the older refs need to hang it up, and find a suitable retirement village in Florida. Almost makes you wnat Hightower back. NOTTTTT!!!!!

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 8 months ago

Ed Hightower was one of the officials at the NCAA '88 and '08 championship games that KU won. He is our good luck charm.

Jared Grillot 8 years, 8 months ago

You know, you gotta respect someone who has SUCH a reputation as a NCAA ref that EVERYONE knew his name like Ed Hightower. Love him or hate him (mostly hate), that's saying something about him.

Noel Graham 8 years, 8 months ago

The error they are speaking of is that no call was made at all. If he had called a charge or a block, it would have been fine, it's a judgement call. I thought it was charge until I was a picture floating around that shows Niang's foot appears to be on the line for the restricted area. Now I think maybe the ref knew that and didn't make a blocking call.

BainDread 8 years, 8 months ago

Um....isn't using your judgement that it should be a "no-call, play-on" situation a judgement call?

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

Just my opinoin, but I always thought that a "flop" goes under no call to be made.....not necessarily a blocking foul, if the defender didn't gain an advantage in so flopping - i.e., the offensive player unable to get a pass or shot off.

Brad Watson 8 years, 8 months ago

you think its a charge...unless you are on the baseline...a completely different vantage point than the tv may have appeared completely different from there....and its a bang bang play ....i know that i could never be an official...because you never get a 360 view of a play...the other officials ...who had a better angle...needed to come in and voice their opinions...calls get gets some breaks sometimes...we got one last night...we have had some go against jo jo white against texas western in the regional final years ago..he wasn't out of bounds...but guess what..we lost..and texas western went on to win the national championship

Andy Tweedy 8 years, 8 months ago

Seriously? Any Kansas fan should ask themselves "If they had made that call AGAINST us, would I be upset?" I am fairly sure that nine out of ten of you would say YES. There were tons of bad/weird/questionable calls in this game, against both teams, but to discount a bad call with 4 seconds left because of this is just silly. I love my Jayhawks, but ISU got jammed on that call, plain and simple. We've been jammed before, ISU has been jammed before, and it won't be the last time for either. Bring on WVU!

Virtualking 8 years, 8 months ago

A KU fan being upset about a call made in regulation of a game that went into overtime would say that the call made in regulation was meaningless, It is what we did in overtime that would determine that game. Regulation becomes meaningless, so the topic of discussion would be "why did we suck so bad in overtime?"

Michael Leiker 8 years, 8 months ago

Disagree, Niang was clearly falling back before Elijah contacted him. He did not maintain his verticality which completely voids the fact that he was there, with his feet set before Elijah left the ground. It takes a lot to take a charge and that dude bailed on the play.

Andy Tweedy 8 years, 8 months ago

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I am fairly sure there is one thing we agree on, however...I'm sure as hell glad they did NOT call a foul on EJ. As for the point I believe Virtualking is making, it is a certainty that ISU still had a chance to win the game and essentially got their heads kicked in in OT, but it's still awfully hard to discount a foul that sends guy to the line with a chance to tie with 4 seconds left as being at very least a momentum changer.

JayHok 8 years, 8 months ago

Initially many of us would have been upset. However those pictures someone provided show EJ getting hacked on the way to the goal and also Niang's foot not set still sliding over. Photographic evidence would have straightened fans out. In the court of law can it be debated when it's right there in a photograph? It was a block plain and simple. Fans really want the facts. Was it a charge? Well the guy's foot is clearly moving....

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago


Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

A FLOP doesn't = a charge!!!!

If you watched UF & Tenn. last night....w/ about 2:00 left in a fairly close game, an official EMPHATICALLY signalled charge on one where the defender even MORE clearly flopped....I think in large part called a charge due to the events in our game.

Jimmy Dykes, the color man, railed against him making the "anticipatory" foul call and not noting the flop BEFORE the contact.

Kirkwood 8 years, 8 months ago

Iowa State showing strong signs of assuming the position/role vacated by Mizzery. We are witnessing the birth of a RIVALRY!! Bring it on!! We're Rock Chalking used to it. If you can't be a Jayhawk,,, you live to beat the Jayhawks. Which will make you a loser most of your life.

Scott Smetana 8 years, 8 months ago

Anyone remember this? Karma payback after 17 years. We got screwed.

Robert Brown 8 years, 8 months ago

I can't believe the rationalization on this board. Yes, it was a bad call. It should have been a charge and the during the scrum afterward, I did not see a foul. By the way, does anyone know what happened to Nadir Thorpe's shot just after the foul?

I don't see a national campaign to dinigrate KU, but besides Elijah Johnson's performance, the story of the game was the bad call at the end. Look, it;s big news when a team as successful as KU loses. Like any program with sustained success, we have a lot of arrogant fans, A LOT of arrogant fans. And people like to shut them up on occastion.

We were fortunate to be given an opportunity, but KU (Johnson) took advantage of the opportunities. That says alot the character of this team. .

Roger Tobias 8 years, 8 months ago

Two seemingly unrelated comments: Do you notice the difference in crowd reaction in Hilton vs Allen when the home team is behind? We take it personally, get mad, and INCREASE our noise (see MU at KU, 2012). ISU fans acted like somebody just ran over their dog, 30 seconds into the OT.

The charge-block controversy continues. I would be interested in seeing a trial rule change in an early season tournament, where it would be a double foul. The outcome of the shot would be the same, that is if it goes in the points count, but then the whistle blows, the fouls are assessed, and the game goes on. If it is a miss rebounded, the whistle blows and the team in possession keeps it (no alternate possession-why penalize the rebounding team?). The point is that both players involved are at risk, which, late in a game, might mean some additional foul-outs.

Pbbut 8 years, 8 months ago

Most of the comments have been defensive about KU's position, while at the same time pointng out how many other calls were missed or wrong.
It looks like the conference is taking the appropriate action, poor refs should be shown the door, on that it appears ISU and KU fans can agree.
The players can only play the game as called, and today and forever, this is a KU win, so let's go clinch another conference title.

LLH 8 years, 8 months ago

Here's one stat I have to share. I believe ISU was 17-41 from 3pt land and 8-30 ish from 2pt land, yet shot 34 FTs. Now, I don't have a formula for this but when you hit 17 3's and miss 22 two pointers but shoot 34 FT's, that means there were ALOT of whistles going against KU's defense. Granted, KU was in foul mode for roughly the last two minutes, but you get my drift. KU wasn't fouling them on 3pt shots, so that means that a foul was called on KU roughly half the time ISU took a 2 pt shot, that's an alarming rate, but you'll never here that talked about. This isn't a run of the mill defense either, it's first in the nation in FG% allowed. KU had 22 team fouls and I remember at least 3 charges and a moving screen called, assuming KU wasn't called for more than one over the back foul, that means of ISU's 22 misses from two, KU theoretically fouled them 17 of those times. My numbers are a bit flawed as I'm not factoring when KU had to foul to stop the clock, etc. but again, roughly half the time ISU shot a two, KU was tweeted for a foul. One other thing I would like to point out, not necessarily about this game, but I did see it here too, is the moving screen. I saw numerous "sticking the arse out into the defender" in both the ISU and OSU at AFH games, few were called. The moving screen is becoming like the block/charge or holding in the NFL. It could be called on nearly every possession, it's a matter of interpretation of the rules by the officials.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

There was one (McGee's first) - where they basically shoved Mc from the 3 pt. line way down inside. He was probably 2 body lengths away from McGee after the 'move".

Brad Watson 8 years, 8 months ago

How many HORRIBLE CALLS are there in a given game.....A LOT!!!!!..i am watching tenn-fla right now ...i have seen numerous ...questionable many in the minn-IU game...many!...every game ...every night...thats basketball...and it all happens so fast..that its tough to be in the stripes

kureader 8 years, 8 months ago

It's hard to believe, that with all the poor calls in this game, the only one that gets attention is the last one. If they're goning to review that last 5 seconds, they should review the entire game. This was a poorly officiated call, agreed ... the question is: who gained the advantage? I'd say Iowa State. The last call had no more impact on the outcome than any of the others. This is an unprecedented reaction by the NCAA. And, to what end?

Andy Tweedy 8 years, 8 months ago

I agree with almost everything you said her, save one item. A call or non-call on the last play of the game ABSOLUTELY has more impact than one made a couple minutes into the game, or even with 3 or 4 minutes left. Why? Because the team that gets jobbed with 3 or 4 minutes left has time to recover. So I think it's fair to emphasize a call that happens with 4 second left, as opposed to one with plenty of time on the clock. Otherwise, I can't disagree with anything you've offered up here.

Kip_McSmithers 8 years, 8 months ago

I know it's been pointed out before.... Let's say a bad call is made and gives Elijah or Jeff his second foul 4 minutes into the first half. He has to sit for the next X amt of minutes. Does that not change the game??? Last second or four minutes in, a bad call is a bad call and they both CAN change the results. You are right, we would have more time to make up for the poor call. But when the player in foul trouble checks back in rarely do they play with the same aggression as a player that only has one foul. And sitting one of our best players and replacing them with a guy from the bench doesn't mean that the bench player will produce the same stats as the starter.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

Disagree again.

ESPECIALLY in this game.

BAD fouls on Withey sent him to the bench for multiple large doses of minutes at a time.

The foul at the end in this case didn't mean W/L any more than not having Withey out there meant for KU.

If ANYTHING I agree more with Kip!

A bad call early VERY LIKELY could end up with a 6-10 pt. differential due to having to sub. out said starter. A bad call in the final seconds of a close game - so long as it's not LITERALLY the final play or at least doesn't "put a game away (i.e. take a 2 pt. lead and make it 4)" doesn't.

Marcia Parsons 8 years, 8 months ago

rockchalk1990: If a team with 3 or 4 minutes left has time to recover, there is no argument since ISU had five minutes of overtime to do something.

Brad Watson 8 years, 8 months ago

ku reader...i liked your post..well done...idiotic reactions...not realizing..that calls throughout the game are determining the outcome

Lance Hobson 8 years, 8 months ago

How strange to admit a mistake on a truly bang bang play. As we say in the fighter pilot world, "Never pass up an opportunity to keep your mouth shut." Certainly applies to the Big 12 here.

nckujayhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

To the Iowa State fans who will complain forever about it. Let me introduce you to the three Been brothers. Coulda Been, Woulda Been, and Shoulda Been. Like the ISU basketball team. None of them accomplished anything either.

Robert Brown 8 years, 8 months ago

Is that really necessary? If the shoe was on the other foot, I am sure you would be very upset as well.

Robert Brown 8 years, 8 months ago

You can argue with me. but it would have gotten equally ugly at Allen Field House last year if Missouri was the beneficiary of a bad call that propelled them to a win.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

Equally ugly.....You have "Hawk" in your name, but you're sounding like a Missouri fan.

Reportedly nothing has been thrown on our floor in reaction to a call or opposing players or the like in nearly 30 years.....someone said L. Brown's 1st year and he followed that up by announcing to the crowd that we don't do that here.

HONESTLY, what would've happened is that we'd probably be on here bitc*ing about our players is what would happen with the roles reversed.

littlejayhawk09 8 years, 8 months ago

I can honestly say that if the tables were turned and KU were on the receiving end of the call at the end of the game, I'd be pretty disappointed. Because of the outcome, its easy for me to say, "Well, its human error, and its part of the game." I would feel bad for ISU were it not for one thing: the atrocious behavior of their fans after the game. From their students throwing objects at our players when they left the floor, and them staying after to boo during the post game interviews, to a grown man trying to pick a fight with Coach Self, and their fans taking to Twitter to drop racial slurs and make death threats at Elijah Johnson, I have a hard time not believing they deserve every bit of their luck. Acting like that when representing their school and team is more of a devastating loss than that of the game. I feel worse for their team and those in their school and fan-base who act decently that they're associated with this trashy behavior than I do that they lost the game. That's where the real loss is here, and the refs had no impact on it.

Michael Leiker 8 years, 8 months ago

We don't have to feel that way. It was the right call.

littlejayhawk09 8 years, 8 months ago

For me, that's not the point. The point is that they should be more embarrassed of their behavior than upset about the outcome of the game. Nothing excuses that behavior, and they deserve to be disappointed.

Brad Watson 8 years, 8 months ago

on another issue... i want schedule home and home ...for the next 20 years with....duke....KU in Cameron....awesome!!!...kentucky.. KU in Rupp?....awesome!!!!.gonzaga...ku in the dog pound?...awesome!!.michigan state......ku ..every other year in the Crisler arena...awesome!!!.ohio mexico...because of the pit...ku in the pit....awesome!!!!...and then butler....ku in hinkle..awesome!!!!..if strength of schedule is all that matters....why not schedule these teams every year...and there are others.......Syracuse.....The Carrier Dome....are you kidding me...everey year...and then places less none ..but great atmospheres...Wichita State.....the round house...awesome!!!! many alumni in St. Louis.....who do they root for.......their alma mater ...... or the hometown team where they have season need to play St. Louis every year..... .and i think Murray State...and Memphis...we need to play all those teams every year...for experience...strength of schedule...and for us...THE FANS!!!!!!....and oh yea...UCLA!!!!!

niemoth 8 years, 8 months ago

I used to live in Columbus, Ohio, and back in 04 I believe is when we played at Rupp (won even without Simien), but I got my name pulled in a drawing and was able to purchase season tickets for Kentucky. Sold every game except Kansas for more money than I paid for the tickets. Kentucky fans at the game that I told I was a Kentucky season ticket holder were pissed. Then I kept getting the renewal each year. Bought them for 2 years after that, and one year they had Louisville and NC at home. That year I made over $800 on their season tickets. Although then the didn't do well and the season tickets were going for about face value on ebay so I stopped buying them and wish I hadn't after Calipari got there. I could have been still making good money each year.

Kelly Hanrahan 8 years, 8 months ago

Does the Big 12 have any rules about what can and cannot be shown on the video board concerning officiating calls - especially when the officials are discussing the play in question? If not, they should have - no need to put extra charge into the fans in attendance - could result in thrown objects and injury. If there is a policy in place, why hasn't anyone called out the video board operator at ISU?

Bret Eckert 8 years, 8 months ago

Yes they do have "Guidelines" about what can and cannot be shown. Iowa State chose not to follow these "Guidelines".

Jack Jones 8 years, 8 months ago

And, just who was the moron TV director who thought it would great TV to show the Coach's son crying, the Coach's wife and the Coach's mother at the end of the game? What a jerk!!! Between these kinds of idiotic decisions and the apparent diminished intellectual capacity of many of the game announcers, it's becoming difficult to concentrate on what's actually taking place on the court.

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

Do any of you guys ever sleep ??

Besides that - take pride in the fact that that game against Cryowa State was part of history.

There evidently was NO WAY that Kansas could have the chance of winning nine, yes - NINE consecutive Big 12 conference championships without the help of a bad call. Because Lord knows there have never been any other missed calls in any other NCAA games before Monday night.

Plus, there were no bad calls against Kansas, only for us. Wah.

paducahawk 8 years, 8 months ago

message to refs - Don't make a call against the team the ESPN announcers are pulling for at the end of the game or you will get suspended.

niemoth 8 years, 8 months ago

ESPN is doing most of the terrible reporting here and making it sound as if KU should have lost. The big 12 officials said they review every game and review the whole game. It was ESPN that reports it as they are reviewing the last minute. And the report says errors (plural) were made and multiple referees meaning the big 12 acknowledges there were more errors than just the one at the end (probably withey's charge call as well, although his 4th foul he got no piece of Niang under the basket, and it was Niang's unorthodox shot attempt that made it look like Withey got him on the arm). But again ESPN just writes in the article about the end of the game, not mentioning any other calls that may be in question. I blame ESPN for reporting this. I didn't see them reporting the terrible charge call being reviewed against T-Rob in Columbia last year. My guess is that the big 12 would probably tell KU-MU that it was also a wrong call, but ESPN doesn't make a big deal about it even though Gottlieb and Vitale were screaming for an "and1"

On another note, that game was exactly what I feel we have needed. The whole big 12 season I feel like the EJ and Releford have been scared to take a 3 because they would miss a few and then they had no confidence, or we would just look for McLemore to take all our 3's because he does have a smooth stroke. Even though we won't get any borderline calls in the next few games. With EJ, and Releford having confidence of making the 3 now, I don't see anybody coming close to us for awhile, then we get to the ncaa tourney and won't have big 12 refs anymore.

Kent Noble 8 years, 8 months ago

If Iowa St would have won the game in overtime, we would have never heard a word about the officiating. Other than Kansas Fans, everybody hates us with a passion. KU lost three games in a row and you did not hear us Kansas Fans complaining about the officiating. Referee's are just like every other working employee, sometimes you just have a bad day at work! I don't think the referee's through the game. They just missed some calls that could have gone either way. Iowa St had just as good a chance to win in overtime as we did. They live and die by there 3 point shooting, it just failed them in the end. So Iowa St fans quit crying!!

8 years, 8 months ago

What about the final possession by ISU? Tie ball game, 4.9 seconds left with one timeout. Plenty of time to call a time out even thought they had just called one during EJ’s free throws, set of a play and win the game at the end of regulation.

ISU’s choice…jog the ball down the court and toss up a long three and tell KU, “we’ll see you in OT.” -Big mistake.

What do you think Bill would have done in the same situation? I would guess he probably would go for the win. I was scared ISU would but they failed. Lots of questionable calls by the refs in the game but one huge questionable call by the “mayor” with 4.9 seconds left.

Bill Self and the players got this win for KU, not the refs!

hawkfanobserver 8 years, 8 months ago

Since when has ANYBODY in the BIG 12 reviewed a call of anykind???!!! There were soooooo many bad calls made during the entire game. I also think that the commentators sucked!!!
Why didn't they just take off their sports jackets and show us the ISU t-shirts they were wearing? In regard to the late dunk by EJ, nobody ever seemed to mind running up the score on KU's football team. ISU along with KSU and Missouri are the worst crybabies there are!!!!!

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 8 months ago

As I posted in another thread, this reminds me of the guy that mistakenly got extra money on his paycheck and said nothing, next paycheck the extra amount is taken out and he goes and complains. When he is asked why he did not say anything the previous month, he says: I can understand you making an error once, but twice is unacceptable.

It is grossly unfair to only point out one call and ignore all the others that went the other way.If we are looking for the right call, it should have been EJ being bumped while driving to the basket a tenth of second before the call in question; the refs did not call the first and the next as they have been told not influence the game and let the players decide. Again if you are going to look at one play why not look at the entire sequence and not just a selected portion of the play.

There appears to be evidence that from the refs perspective the defenders foot might have been moving and was on the line at the point of contact which was late as he defender was flopping.

In any case, that specific play did not decide the game; EJ still had to make the two free throws and ISU had 4+ seconds to score plus the entire overtime period. They have no one to blame but themselves and ESPN should stop trying to create an issue where there is really none. KU was seriously jobbed in the last game at Columbia; it regrouped and got even in the return game; this how it should be done.

On a related note, Brent Musburger should retire from BBall; at least he did not say that Holly Rowe "was really smoking" or drooled over HC Hoiberg's wife...thank God for small favors.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

Even if they called it a charge. The last time an ISU player was at the line was Lucious (a superior FTer to Niang) and he went 1-2 to break their 22 in a row streak. Who's to say that Niang doesn't also go 1-2 and then we have the end that we'd had at AFH all over again with a LONG 3 that goes in and STILL sends the game to overtime. There'd've still been something like 7 or 8 seconds left when that whistle would've occurred. More than possible to have had happen.

Kelly Hanrahan 8 years, 8 months ago

You do not shoot free throws on a charge - it is a player control foul - and possession of the ball changes to the other team. This negates you notion of missing free throws by Niang - but what would transpire in the remainder of the game is unknown.

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 8 months ago

That is not correct at all. At the 7th foul, if the foul is not during the act of shooting (such as a charge) it is a 1 and 1; at the 10th foul it is 2 shots the rest of the way regardless of the type of foul. This is why it is called being in the Bonus situation in the first case and the Bonus+ in the second. When a player is fouled in the act of shooting, it is always 2 shots, or 3 shots if he was taking a 3 point shot. in the previous play, Tharpe committed a foul and Lucious missed the first and made the second, which means ISU was in the Bonus+ situation and Niang would have had 2 free throws,

The16thPresident 8 years, 8 months ago

I get why this discussion has been dragged on for so long on media outlets and the like. But man, it's really too bad that the actual GAME has been overlooked as a result. This was simply one of the most fantastic CBB games I've seen in years. Historic. So many storylines, one of which being a highly criticized senior, who must have been having the most frustrating/heartbreaking/personally-disappointing periods of his young life, shaking a monkey off his back and going unconscious for 39 points. The kid earned that dunk, by the way.

Instead the game gets dragged through the mud over a freaking call at the end that didn't win or lose the game for anyone. It simply put one team in a position to tie, which they did, on ICE for that matter. OT showed each team's true colors. The winners wore crimson and blue. THAT is what ISU fans are REALLY upset about.

Dyrk Dugan 8 years, 8 months ago

totally agree Abe Lincoln :)

a wonderful basketball game.....more than a dozen lead changes (the score was 50-49 ISU in the 2nd half) and here we are talking about, and having much media and official conference talk, about one lousy call at the end of the game. and i'm not saying the call itself was lousy...i'm saying it's something that is pathetic, and beneath any normal discussion after a reg. season college basketball game.

i guarantee you, if the shoe was on the other foot, EVERYONE would be saying that KU should quit whining, how crazy and obnoxious must their fans be. "one call never decides a bball game" and "you scored 50 points at home in one half and couldn't win? don't put it in the hands of the up, and play some defense!"...and on and on and on.

i'm telling folks right now, around me today at work, and anywhere i discuss this....that no call on the charge-block at the end of reg. was NOT a bad fact, quite reasonable, when you consider how he flopped, how EJ was being very the official was on the other side of the basket (with that angle, and the ISU kid falling, what else could he do?) The merits of the non call should be debated...but since Frischilla made such a HUGE deal out of it, and the game was "big Monday - ESPN" and they are the purveyors of sports talk in this country, all stuff breaks loose.

you know what? in the heck with 'em. you ISU fans out there, take a look at yourself. absolutely disgusting, with death threats against a player, confronting our head coach physically and throwing who knows what at our players as they leave your court.

and to heck with you ESPN. we're still Kansas, we're still going to win our share of college basketball games, we're going to win another league title......we lace 'em up and show up at games just like everyone else...the same officials call the games. if you guys at ESPN actually believe that game was one sided in favor of KU.....i have beach front property to sell you here in the sunflower state.

so now it's us vs. the world, because i know any official in this league will do whatever they can to make sure they're not "favoring" mean, bad 'ol KU...because they've had it soooooooo good over the years with favorable calls. makes me sick.

so here we come college bball world.....we've still got games to play, and we'll be there. maybe EJ has 40 points in him the next time. :)

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 8 months ago

The one I'd MOST like to hear from is Jimmy Dykes who called the Florida / Tennessee game the very next night. There was a similar play with just under 2 mins. left, although the Tennessee player even MORE obviously flopped. I THINK, in large part because of the events of Mon. night, the ref. EMPHATICALLY called a charge (hmmm, funny with it being the home team up yet again in an upset bid yet again).

Dykes emphatically DISAGREED with the call saying, "You can't call a charge when the player flops before contact! Bad call!"

Boy, wished we'd had Dykes call our game after hearing that and would LOVE to hear his reaction to the Johnson / Niang play at the end.

Maybe we can BEG to get Nessler / Dykes next year and the SEC get Musberger / Frashilla. Doesn't seem fair for Frashilla to do Big XII games with his son on OU's roster anyway!!!

jayhawkdoc 8 years, 8 months ago

I personally can not believe that the big 12 even agreed to look at this matter. How many times has KU been robbed in games by the officals, i.e. the championship game last year just to name one. So one call was made that was iffy and ISU goes crazy and they get a review, unbelievable. every game will have a few bad calls, KU had probably 5 or 6 calls go against them in that game and you dont see KU crying. I am actually embarrassed for ISU they need to man up.

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