TCU defeats Kansas, 62-55

  • 8 p.m., Feb. 6, 2013
  • Daniel-Meyer Coliseum, Fort Worth, TX

Thursday, February 7, 2013

First to ‘worst’: Lowly TCU stuns Jayhawks

From left Jeff Withey, Jamari Traylor, Elijah Johnson and Kevin Young, watch the final seconds of the Jayhawks 62-55 loss to Texas Christian University, Wednesday at TCU in Fort Worth, Texas.

From left Jeff Withey, Jamari Traylor, Elijah Johnson and Kevin Young, watch the final seconds of the Jayhawks 62-55 loss to Texas Christian University, Wednesday at TCU in Fort Worth, Texas.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self talks after loss to TCU

Kansas coach Bill Self talks after his team's 62-55 loss to TCU on Feb. 6, 2013.

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Box score


— Kansas University did much more than lose a basketball game on Wednesday to TCU, the last-place team in the Big 12 Conference.

The Jayhawks, according to coach Bill Self, had one of the most putrid performances in school history, evidenced by a 13-point — yes, 13-point — first half that contributed mightily to a 62-55 setback in Daniel-Meyer Coliseum.

“It’s the worst team Kansas has ever put on the floor since Dr. Naismith was here,” Self said after the Jayhawks suffered back-to-back losses for the first time since the 2005-06 season, when KU fell to Kansas State and Missouri in consecutive games. “I think he had some bad teams when he lost to Topeka YMCA in his first couple years. The first half (in which KU hit 3 of 22 shots) ... there hasn’t been a team play worse than that offensively. That hasn’t happened ... anywhere.

“Maybe Northern Illinois. Earlier this year, they made one basket in a half. The great thing,” Self cracked, “is we had three assists on our three baskets. We were really sharing the ball.”

KU, which trailed, 22-13, at halftime, had its lowest-scoring half at least since the 1988-89 season when halftime records started to be kept. Previous low was 18 points against Iowa State back in 1999. The previous low in a half in the Self era was 20 points versus Arizona on Nov. 21, 2005.

This happened against a TCU team (10-12) that in opening league play 0-8 had lost seven games by double figures. Its closest loss was a nine-pointer to Texas Tech, the other margins of defeat 18, 11, 13, 13, 21, 26 and 17 points.

“What is the right word to assess the first half? Futility ... would that be a word?” said Self, whose Jayhawks (19-3 7-2) trailed 10-4 with 6:15 left in the first half. The Jayhawks also trailed, 20-6, with four minutes left in an effort described as “embarrassing.”

“Yes, I am,” senior Kevin Young (six points, nine rebounds) said, asked if he was embarrassed. “There are a lot of great names to wear the jersey before us. We embarrassed not only us but them. We played horrible.

“We deserved what we got,” added Young, who came off the bench in favor of Perry Ellis (no points, 10 minutes) for the first time in 19 games in a move Self said was designed to “get Perry going.”

Of the first half, Self noted: “It was awful, but even as bad as it was, and it was horrendous, if we are sound defensively and get stops at the end of the clock, we are down four to six as opposed to nine.”

KU did slice a 16-point deficit (37-21 at 11:41) to four points the second half (44-40 at six minutes) but again went cold and found itself down double figures at 51-40.

Self didn’t see this one coming.

“We actually were very competitive Monday and Tuesday,” he said of the team’s response to a home loss to Oklahoma State on Saturday. “And we had a great shootaround today. Our coaches said it’s the best we looked all year.”

Of the lineup switch, Self said: “Well, Kevin will give us the same thing whether he starts or doesn’t. That didn’t have anything to do with anything. I was really trying to hope that Perry could get going. Obviously, it didn’t happen. If we could start three guys, we’d do that. They make us run five out there. I don’t know who deserves to start.”

Young said: “I did it (come off bench) last year. I have no problem with it. I lacked energy today. I don’t know why. I will try my hardest to not let that happen again.”

KU, which hit 29.5 percent of its shots and just three of 22 threes, was led by Ben McLemore, who had 15 points off 6-of-16 shooting. Jeff Withey had 12 points, and Naadir Tharpe had 11 off 2-of-15 shooting.

The Jayhawks will meet Oklahoma at 3 p.m. Saturday in Norman, Okla.


brad53 1 year, 2 months ago

To me Self has to put Naadir in the starting line up to send a message to EJ. Perry or Traylor in for KY, because teams are not guarding him, and sticking double teams on Withey. It seems teams are daring KY to shot, and I do not blame them, we have too have another post threat for Self's high low to work. I think EJ will be fine, but for now coming off the bench might relieve some pressure on him. I


WindmillGIANT 1 year, 2 months ago

A lot of people are anxious to see more of the freshman. Self has seen them everyday in practice for months now; if they were showing something that made him think they were ready, he'd play them. Some of them might look good in spots if they were thrown into the game more, but I imagine over the long haul of a whole game or two, the flaws Self sees in practice would become evident. Maybe some of them might be gamers who rise to the occasion of real game competition, but I can understand a coach not wanting to throw in a guy hoping that he's going to suddenly do something in a real game, he doesn't do in practice. Ultimately, it's way too early to act like a last place baseball team at the all-star break and just get rid of our starters and go to the bench to start getting practice and evaluating. No one has been playing that well, so as a coach, I imagine the thinking is that if anybody is going to breakthrough its going to be a veteran whose shown already that they can play - so you have to ride out this year with your upperclassman.


JayHok 1 year, 2 months ago

Three of our starters have the flu. Hard to believe the entire team doesn't. Get well soon Hawks.


jeffmaher 1 year, 2 months ago

I rarely post but I need to tonight. It has been 24 hours now and I think I felt much the same way many of you felt watching last night. Embarassed, depressed, basically confused at our ineptness. Having slept on it and thinking about it for a little while today I have the following has been weeks now since we have played good solid basketball, but I remain optimistic. The reasons I remain optimistic is because while our offense continues to struggle our defense is still top rate. It will allow us to stay with ANY team in the country. Watching a fifth straight week where a number one has gone down (Indiana tonight to unranked Illinois) it has become abundantly clear that anyone with a 6 seed or higher can get hot and win this year in March. We will definitely be one of those teams. Our weak guard play IMHO is temporary. I think HCBS and the guards will get it figured out. There is plenty of time and I am not in a panic. Trust the team, the coaches the process. At the very least I think these "teaching" moments for guys like Tharpe, Ellis, and the rest of our team will pay off come March. Mistakes that they are making now will be corrected and valuable lessons learned. Character is created in times of distress not times of success. It is what you do and how you respond when you get knocked down that determine your success in life not how you act after sqeaking out wins vs. lesser teams. The next few weeks will be critical in determining the desire of this team and this coaching staff to right the ship. I for one am completely confident in the team, staff and fans. Let's stay supportive as a group and encourage this team to reach the highs we know they can. RCJHGKU 4ever. Peace.


kennethst 1 year, 2 months ago

Still cant believe KU only had 2 points for about 15 minues. How is that even possible.....against TCU????? That actually takes work to be that bad. That's like a score from 1901. Kansas ......#5 seed?.......1st round loss?


jhawkr 1 year, 2 months ago

You can preach chemistry and confidence, etc. What is comes down to is how much skill you have and the energy you bring to the court.

Look at our starting five. Only McLemore is a true gifted scorer. Seriously Withey, EJ, Releford and especially Young. No one is awfully concerned when they shoot. They are expecting a rebound chance. What those four have to bring is effort, energy, and capitalizing on 2nd chances. At best the Hawks are a below average rebounding team. Watch on long shots, they stand under the rim. No one is putting a body on anyone or blocking out.

The OSU loss I can accept. However, TCU exposed how badly the Hawks have been playing lately. Now NO ONE is scared of the Jayhawks. Sure, most teams bring their 'A' game against KU, but now teams have the confidence to beat KU. Do not look for them to feel pity for the Jayhawks (winners of 8 consecutive Big 12 Championships) !


claycountyjayhawk 1 year, 2 months ago

AND INDIANA GOES DOWN. great post theend


theend 1 year, 2 months ago

EJ has been getting a lot of anger......and he certainly deserves his share. But 2nd on my list would be Ben Mc. He has been a big disappointment lately. He was great up until about 2-3 weeks ago......but some terrible games since.....some awful turnovers.....missed shots.....even airballs. He would do well to stay at KU.

As for AW3 and Perry Ellis? comment. No point in wasting the electricity.


theend 1 year, 2 months ago

I'm watching Indiana on the road at problem for them. They are doing fine. Unlike KU......they know how to win against a lesser opponent. From watching this game......the difference between a team like Indiana and KU is massive. Indiana has so much more talent and skill.....and more importantly......chemistry.


Vic Janeway 1 year, 2 months ago

Confidence....HCBS needs to get it back, thats his freakin job!


kennethst 1 year, 2 months ago

First.....the powers that be took the Royals from me. Then.......they took the Chiefs. Now.......looks like my Jayhawks are becoming just another team.(at best). They are taking it all..........all gone.


Kye Clark 1 year, 2 months ago

4) - Self’s game management. It’s not all on the players. A lot of it is. Self isn’t out there shooting these woeful percentages. A lot of it is as simple as making open looks. We make open looks, we’re having different discussions. However, he has to shoulder a lot of the blame as well. Watching the game last night, some of the stuff he was doing was a joke. As HEM has pointed out, putting AW3 in the game cold (again) with a minute left. Does he know he’s eligible to play the whole game, not just that desperation last minute of play? I was actually a fan of what he was doing with pulling the starters (as Roy used to do), but you have to leave them out there for more than a minute of play. Players were in and out too quickly. Let Rio get into a flow. Traylor scored our first points and then disappeared. Perry starts both halves but didn’t see the court after subbing out both times. What was he doing (or not doing) that was so much worse than the rest of the team? And just circling back - more AW3 please.

5) - Tharpe. This could be as simple as reeling him in. He is still young, but he got a little confidence and it worked against him last night. He got us back in the game, then took us right back out. And while he does some things well, I still don’t see him as the answer at PG. Long-term I have a hard time envisioning him as our starter the next two years. Short-term, he might be the answer for cutting EJ’s minutes, but that can’t be the case come March. I still think it was a mistake to not be developing Adams, but Self was probably more comfortable with Tharpe’s knowledge of the system so Adams had to take a back seat.

Anyway, I think if KU can just start fixing a handful of things the confidence, swagger, & toughness will come back. And really, that is what made this team so good. We’re not blowing anyone away from a pure talent standpoint. But we have the best coach in the country (yes, I still believe that), and when things are right those intangibles are what carry this team to victories over the likes of Ohio State. I can’t wait to see how they come out Saturday. Rock Chalk!


Kye Clark 1 year, 2 months ago

2) - EJ. Let's get this out of the way - EJ is in all likelihood not going to regain the form we saw during the last 9 games of last season. And as someone pointed out after the OSU game, that 9 game sample is the biggest reason we had any evidence to have our hopes so high for him. However, he is a better player than this. He is capable of being a good PG for this team. The problem is between his ears, and it's on Self to snap him out of it. I think when he's right he's the better option at the point, but until he's right Bill should be seriously cutting into his minutes and replacing him with Tharpe. Now that might seem counter-intuitive, that it will destroy his confidence and he'll never get it back, but it has to be done for two reasons. First, the constant poor performances aren't helping his confidence either, so maybe he needs to be unburdened as the leader of this team. If he isn't carrying that weight maybe he can relax and just play. The second reason is that with him burdening himself as the leader of this team, the crisis of confidence going on with him is spreading to the rest of the players. It’s like a cancer at this point. Instead of coming out ticked off and ready to lay a beat-down on TCU, they came out and got punked, and just took it.

3) - System. I believe in Self's system, but he doesn't have the pieces that fit that system perfectly this year. He has to adapt. You can't run a high-low offense with no post-scoring threat. Credit to Jeff, he's come a long way, but he is not suited for us to run offense through. Perry was our best hope for developing a true post scoring threat, but that doesn’t appear likely to happen soon. So in the absence of a running the offense as Self has traditionally ran it, what do we do? I don’t know honestly, but as sacrilege as this may seem…look at K-State. Borrow some of that motion offense, because really their personnel is not that different than ours right now. They have one bona fide scorer – McGruder. We have one bona fide scorer – BMac. Nearly everything else has to come from the system, so maybe it’s time to change it up. Probably won’t happen, but I’d like to see us at least adding some new wrinkles into the offense. Right now I have no idea what we’re running, other than the weave.


Kye Clark 1 year, 2 months ago

Please stop trying to justify this as "just one loss" or throwing out our record, or the record of teams from seasons' past. Because you know what? When we were playing horribly and skating by all January and some of the astute posters were leery of the direction the team was heading, you all were shouting us down then by saying "we've lost one game and are #2 (or whatever we were at the time) in the country!" How long can you keep burying your head in the sand and pretending that there aren't major issues with this team?

Is the team horrible? No. Is it broken beyond repair? No. Look, this morning the sun came up and I dressed my son in his Jayhawk hoodie before sending him off to start his day. I took the lumps at work, and was still thankful I was a Jayhawk fan and those poking fun at me weren't.

I still think we should win the Big 12, but some things need to be remedied:

1) - Releford. His passiveness on offense is inexcusable. Myself & others have been critical of this long before the losses started piling up. It's not new. It's his M.O. The Houdini act he pulls is the biggest problem with this team. Young isn't a scorer. Withey is not a natural scorer. EJ is struggling mightily. So where's the offense going to come from? BMac isn't going to have too many games like last night, but at least he was trying! Travis would get the ball on the perimeter and wouldn't even look towards the hoop. He couldn't get the ball out of his hands fast enough. After the OSU loss Jaybate suggested (perhaps jokingly, but probably with at least a dash of truth to it) that Self should tell the rest of the team to clear out for EJ and let him get 6 baskets. No one takes a shot until EJ gets us 6 baskets. Well, in all seriousness maybe that should be the case for Travis. He has to get more aggressive on the offensive end. If that had happened, at least one of these losses could have been avoided, and my guess is both of them. Might have still had to win ugly, but getting him on track is the biggest step this team needs to take to get their swagger back. If he's going to continue to be this much of a non-factor then Self is better off starting and playing AW3. A couple of weeks ago, I would say that is unthinkable because of the net gain Travis provides with his stellar defense and usually solid fundamentals. However, he’s been getting beat a lot on the defensive end lately too. And last night he was the one who failed to box out and allowed TCU that monstrous tip dunk that re-energized them.


IkePikeHawk 1 year, 2 months ago

During the 1st half, I recall our guys awaiting a free throw, and drops of sweat were pouring off their faces. Maybe, this is normal and I've just been oblivious to it in the past?


Jeff Kilgore 1 year, 2 months ago

There are those that are very demoralized and bewildered by what they saw last night. I'm not. KU, despite having a really forgettable game, lost one game. It's two in a row for those who can remember when such a thing was possible.

From Self, to the players, to the fans, this loss to me is long overdue. I am a KU fan as much as anybody on this board, but losing happens, and since we are not very well acquainted with it, we don't understand it.

Therefore, we look for reasons: they're pressing, Self is too hard on the players, Self isn't hard enough on the players, our players aren't good enough (ask the Buckeyes), we're lacking X, Y, and Z. No to all of these.

The ball just hasn't been going down for us, and when it does, watch what happens. Losing a few more and knocking us down a bit in the March Madness seedings might be the trick that gets these kids rejuvenated. Every coach and player lives and breathes basketball, and these losses are tough for them to take. But better days are ahead.

We're 19-3.


Kenny Nall 1 year, 2 months ago

This is part and parcel of being a big collegiate basketball program. Yes, work needs to be done to get the boys out of a funk and I think we all know Self is more than capable of doing that.


bennybob 1 year, 2 months ago

Its almost as if the delayed impact recruiting struggles have on a program are finally starting to manifest themselves!

I love EJ, Releford and Withey, but there is a reason these guys are seniors when the most talented players leave for the NBA as early as feasible: they're not that talented. Kevin YOung could only get mid major offers coming out of high school for the same reason.

Last years team was a fluke. its not very often a team with a walk on for a 6th man (teahan) makes it to the national championship game. Bill Self is an amazing coach and deserves all the praise for achieving what he did with the talent on last years team. But that doesnt change the fact that the talent level between these last 2 versions of jayhawks has been measurably below historical norms. These recent struggles could be forseen years ago by anyone paying attention to the recruiting trail.

On the bright side, the class coming in is loaded so the talent level should start trending in the right direction again.


KansasComet 1 year, 2 months ago

The reason I say enjoy the ride when we are winning is for moments just like this. A win is a win. I do not like losing. The missed shots by Kansas did not bother me one bit. What bothered me was the amount of confidence TCU played with. They had no fear, and our team is walking on egg shells, afraid to take, make, or miss shots. We looked like Frankenstein on "Dancing With The Stars" on offense. Absolutely no rhythm and no "go to guy". The only difference I see on this team lately is in confidence. We aren't stepping into our jumpshots in rhythm. We are choppy and out of sync. We are very hesitant, and the other teams' smell fear. Plain and simple. There does not appear to be a lot of chatter on the court amongst teammates. On defense, we allowed too many layups, and were often caught flat footed. The good news is that there is plenty of time for redemption. Time for the entire team to come out and play some confident, winning KU Basketball! I still believe!


KULA 1 year, 2 months ago

EJ's confidence is shot and that's on Bill. Bill mismanaged EJ's whole career. Anyone remember when EJ came to KU as the #3 ranked player at his position and the "best athlete on the team"? Remember how Bill brought him along? With the "one and done" treatment--one mistake and he's done for the day. Remember EJ's one minute box scores? On a team that regularly won games by 20 pts. Remember Sherron playing 35 min/game in those 20 pt victories? Remember Sherron not being able to hit a 3 in March. Remember wondering if we had anyone on the bench who might be able to hit a three against UNI, but Bill not having confidence in him because he hadn't played him all year?

Remember the next year when Bill clipped EJ's wings and effectively ended his season after the T in the K State game for too much energy after his dunk? Energy that was sorely needed at the time. Remember how EJ had to watch from the bench while Brady regularly lit it up the rest of the season for 6 pts/game, and even less against VCU?

Flash forward to last Saturday. After their first home loss in two years, what's the first thing Bill does? Throws EJ under the bus. Is it any wonder the kid plays without confidence?


Jayhawks1985 1 year, 2 months ago

No the worst thing would be if TCU doesn't win another game!


WesternKanHawk 1 year, 2 months ago

This loss is on Bill, not our players. He destroyed our team's confidence. All he's done lately is rip our players and consistently remind them how terrible they are. This was all while we won over ten games in a row and were ranked in the top 5. I understand trying to make our team better through constructive criticism but he's publicly embarrassed some of our players.


ku_foaf 1 year, 2 months ago

This is worst team we have lost to since Baylor in 2000. But this team is much better than that 2000 team. Never has a KU team we know is capable of beating good teams lost to one that bad. Missouri in 97 does come to mind; we were really good, they were .500


Robbk1066 1 year, 2 months ago

Its been 15 hours and I still keep asking myself "what in the Wide World of Sports" just happened. Unbelievable, pathetic, historic, how...? Self's only blame is that they do not have a quality PG. No excuse for that. none. 4 seniors, good not great but 4, Bmac, some other pieces... What happened to the team 3 weeks ago? They either show up in the next game or we might be looking forward to next year. Good recruiting class, to go with team that will be back. Hope is all you have when something like this happens. I have never seen a quality team in ANY sport fall apart like this so quickly. never. Its unexplainable.


Tony Bandle 1 year, 2 months ago

If we fired Coach, take a guess at how many schools would be scrambling to contact him. I would put the over at about 200!!!!..and that doesn't count NBA teams!!!

Let's all try to approach our team with some degree of rationality. Horrible game, funk..absolutely.....end of the world and we lose the majority of the rest of our games...c'mon!!!

Elijah went 3 for 3 at the end, we got it down to four with the ball and what other teams are going to do is now crystal clear. This team has learned the lesson that any effort less than 100%, 100% of the time will put victory at risk. Redemption is but a road victory at Oklahoma away!!



Phogdoggy 1 year, 2 months ago


Come on man-----let's use some common sense. You want to get rid of a coach that has won a national championship, 8 conference titles and has gone to two Final 4's. Seriously??? Am I concerned----YES, but firing the coach is not the answer. Remember we are 19 - 3. I believe Coach Self is best when his back is agaist the wall. I hope that will be the case this time.

Rock Chalk!!!!!!!!!!!


Ron Franklin 1 year, 2 months ago

I'm laughing at myself because I just spent a ton of money about a week ago on basketball tickets. Being the cheap a$$ that I am, I wanted to pick a game to go to that would be a guaranteed 'W'.

So I picked the home game vs TCU.

Uh oh.


Silentbob2 1 year, 2 months ago

Last night ws terrible. KU couldn't buy a bucket. And HCBS was out coached by HCTJ. It was so bad that at the 7 minute mark KU went hack a shaq, and the guy who is the worst on the team at freethrows makes them both. TCU's 2 best players were in. KU is way to talented to be losing games by non-factor teams. IMO, Maybe start incorporating other players like Wesley, Rio, and AWIII into the offense more at practice. EJ shouldn't have to take all the blame. EJ is a really really good player and his draft stock may be dropping but lets remember he is playing out of position. He is a catch and shoot guy. But we only lost 3 games out of many and there is still time left to be great. I'm rooting for them. P.S. Rio needs more minutes and make him one of your scoring threats. The kid gets to the basket with no problem. If KY would have converted that nice pass Rio may have stayed on the floor. Or maybe not since he's not one of HCBS favorites. Just my opinion.


Ron Franklin 1 year, 2 months ago

Do you find it odd that we chastise the Team for feeling entitled because they think they should win because they have KANSAS on their jersey, yet Us Fans have this very same entitlement issue?

We are lucky to have what we have. We've enjoyed a very successful decade with Coach Self and his teams. We don't have a right to win just because its the greatest school and program of all time. We are used to winning, but it is not owed to us.

We shouldn't expect to win or feel entitled to win because the team we watch has KANSAS on their jersey. Just as the actual players shouldn't feel entitled because of the name on the jersey.

A lot of us here, myself included, are a very spoiled bunch.


JHAWK34TRUTH 1 year, 2 months ago

Get it together boys and ROCK CHALK!

LET'S GO!!!!


Tony Bandle 1 year, 2 months ago


I just had a premonition eating my lunch. I suddenly saw this picture with overlapped faces. Aaron Miles over Elijah. Keith Langford over Kevin. Wayne Simeon over Jeff. Mike Lee over Travis. The ghosts of 2004 coming back to haunt us.

I've really got to stop eating tuna fish sandwiches!!!!!


jaybate 1 year, 2 months ago

Contemporary basketball migrates from a skill and athleticism game the first half of the season into a muscle and intimidation game the second half of the season.

We can explain why in simple, or complicated ways.

But migration happens regardless.

This KU team has abilities and schemes that did well in the skill and athleticism half of the season.

Now as the muscle and intimidation part of the season plays out, it seems not suited to this style of play.

Obviously we cannot get bigger and stronger than we are now, so we know every team with three thick bigs and a thick point guard is going to give us troubles the rest of the season, as things stand.

So: we have to develop better offensive tactics and we have to develop more defensive intimidation without the benefit of muscle to do it.

The new offensive tactics I will leave for another post.

Defensive intimidation without muscle is simple. There is only one kind of defensive intimidation without muscle; that is cheap shotting.

Coach K faced this situation a few years back. His guys weren't strong enough to match muscle for muscle. So he had his guys XTReme Cheap Shot.

It is an unethical and unpleasant way to play the game.

There is one other way to intimidate another team without muscle; that is by running them till they are exhausted. Fatigues makes cowards of us all.

But running requires XTReme Conditioning and some depth. It also means pressing more, not less.

Running also requires your bigs can outrebound your opponent on the defensive glass most of the time, so that your smalls can release for the break. KU can do both these things sometimes, but not all the time.

And Self says the bench just isn't strong enough to go to it much.

His Press Conference indicated that he thinks the only choice is to scheme to play the starters as much as humanly possible and so minimize having to go to his bench.

So: accelerating the game and tiring out the opponent seems unfeasible in his mind, unless...

Its unfeasible unless Self has been running the team ragged in practices since the break trying to build up their cardiovascular endurance, and playing subs a bit more to try to bridge them through their dead legs during this XTReme Conditioning. It doesn't seem like that's what he's been up to, but it could be. It would explain the horrible fall off in both offense and defense and the huge fall off in the amount of running and jumping going on. Dead legs. But again, I doubt it.

So if the guys are not undergoing XTReme Conditioning to try to get to where they can run exhaust teams by running, what?

That leaves more and more offensive emphasis on Ben.

And more XTReme Cheap Shotting on defense.

Oh, how I wish they would call the game according to the rules.


Yolanda Gay 1 year, 2 months ago

I love my Jayhawks - good or bad. But lately it's been really BAD.

I didn't think we'd go undefeated in the Big 12. I don't mind losing as long as we compete. Except for the Baylor game, I don't think this team has their mind in the game and are competing.

How does a team with this talent lose to a team like TCU. How does a team with this talent only score 13 points in a half.

I commend Self trying to shake up the line up by putting Ellis in the starting line up. We do need points from that position; especially those foul line jumpers to pull the defense off of Withey. But that is not where I would have made the change.

Some players aren't pulling their weight (i.e. EJ and Releford - to some extent). EJ's turnovers are SO careless. Maybe he needs to come off the bench instead of start. Releford can shoot - then shoot the ball. He does a good job on defense on the other team's best player.

What's the answer? They had a 3 hour team meeting. Apparently, that did no good. With some of the previous team, they would have already had a players only meeting. Are we missing Coach Manning teaching the big men? Is it because the practice squad is not making the starters better because they are good enough to do so?

I hope Coach Self figures it out soon.


kennethst 1 year, 2 months ago

PS- And remember.....this loss occured with a majority of KU fans in attendance at TCU. That's really sad. I feel badly for those KU fans that showed up there. You guys deserved a lot better. Thanks for coming and supporting them. Too bad the team didn't come also.


kennethst 1 year, 2 months ago

We are all upset because we thought they were a great team. They are not great at all. But :they are decent......and above average. That's it........a C+ team at most. They can still compete somewhat. They can not, however, win the Big 12 nor a national title. That hope is over.

The Emperor Has No Clothes.


Sam Constance 1 year, 2 months ago

(start part 3 of 3)

One other thing jumped out at me in reading this recap. The article mentioned that we were down 10-4 with six minutes and change to go in the first half, and that with four minutes to go, we were down 20-6. That had NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with our terrible offense. Allowing 10 points to TC-freaking-U in 2 minutes of play is absolute garbage. As is allowing a guard to put in a tip slam when that very same thing is one of the key reasons why you just lost at home to OSU. These are not coaching issues, unless you think a coach should be managing every, single executional aspect on the floor.

Yes, some more creative offense from Self and crew would have probably helped win us that game last night, but the REASON--as in, primary, main reason--we lost last night was because of a lack of toughness and desire. They looked disinterested. They seemed to feel sorry for themselves that shots weren't going in. They looked... broken. NOW is when Self's real coaching job begins, because he has a team that 1) is playing terribly, but also 2) has a busted psyche. It will be difficult to find a way to build up their confidence while also instilling a sense of urgency about their lackluster play.

As a realist, I don't like to get too high about our successes or too low about our failures. I think a reasonable reaction to this game is that KU still has the chance to finish the season as a good team, but for at least the time being, any notions of them being a national title contender are no longer true.

Hopefully they can band together and fix that, but I will love them all no matter what.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk. Go get 'em guys.


Sam Constance 1 year, 2 months ago

(start part 2 of 3)

What I see is a team whose chemistry is suffering. I don't know the source of it, and it's worrisome to me, given how hard it is to identify and fix a problem like that. But I will note that this is a problem I was concerned about at the beginning of the season. I said, way early on that Elijah, while I love him as a Jayhawk, does not have the "everyone hop on my shoulders while I lead this team" disposition that Tyshawn did. The things Elijah says in the media strike me as a guy who's trying hard, who wants to say and do the things a leader would say and do, but who just doesn't quite grasp it the way some of our best floor generals have. He needs to be a complimentary guard, and his position is only made worse by the fact that he is clearly being affected by his knee issues. There was one play last night where he seemed to be struggling to keep pace with the man he was guarding as he ran up the floor, and his man had the ball and was dribbling. It made my knees ache to watch Elijah run. So ultimately, you have a young man who is built to be a versatile, athletic compliment to a more "heady" team leader having to fulfill a role he isn't really built to fill, and also having his body betray him for doing the things he is built to do. He had to have NBA aspirations and I'm sure he can see that possibility slipping away--I can't imagine what that's like to deal with. So count me as one person who is more sad for Elijah than angry and wants him benched. I'd rather go down fighting with Elijah than give up on the season to develop for the "future". That is the mantra with too many teams in the KC area--screw the future, I want to watch this team fight, and I have no doubt that it will.

But I digress. Back to my main point--I said early on that Elijah was not cut from the right cloth to be a team leader and that if someone else (at the time I thought it would need to be McLemore) didn't grow into that role, we were going to struggle, especially when things got tough. Well here we are. The thing that's especially tough about it is the fact you can't, as a coach, just go to the team and try and force a change in who the team looks to for on-floor leadership. It has to happen organically, or Self and crew risk losing any sense of productivity from Elijah, as the one role that is his gets taken away. Ben needs to recognize that he needs to be that floor leader, even if Elijah is still facilitating the offense. Ben needs to be the one to put the team on his back when it gets tough, and to his credit, he seemed interested in doing that last night, but just couldn't buy a freaking bucket. Maybe this game will be the catalyst for Ben to take a more dominant role in the attitude/moxie of this team.

(end part 2 of 3)


Sam Constance 1 year, 2 months ago

I'm sorry, but this loss--and all of the near misses over the past several weeks--is not on Coach Self.

It's so much easier and satsifying to blame a terrible, embarrassing loss like this on a single person because you get the catharsis of pointing the finger and (metaphorically) screaming "HE DID IT! IT'S HIS FAULT!!!" But the truth is that this is an execution issue. Insomuch as execution is about a coach effectively reaching his players, then it is on Coach Self, but that's wholly different than pinning the loss on him as if he could have coached this team to hit a [expletive] shot.

Only Travis knows why he looks terrified to shoot the ball.

Only Elijah can make the choice to try something other than shot after shot after shot (although if he senses something about Travis' timid play, he may be shooting because he at least has the balls to do it) to get this team's offense going.

Only Jeff can make more decisive moves in the paint or change up his habit of either shooting or passing back to the wing.

Only Naadir can decide to dribble less and pass more.

Only the players on the floor can actually make crisper, more decisive passes instead of timid, tentative passes.

Only the players on the floor can disrupt passing lanes. They had ONE FREAKING STEAL last night. That's unacceptable.

Obviously, Coach Self and staff can stress all these things, and if they weren't doing that, maybe we'd have grounds for complaint. But I can't fathom that a coach who hadn't lost back-to-back games in 264 tries suddenly forgot how to coach over the past 10 games. I will say that from an in-game adjustment standpoint, they could do more, but I also think Self recognizes that this team is a bit soft and doesn't want to coddle them along to wins because he draws up a bunch of plays. Agree or disagree, he seems content to let the players get galvanized by going through the fire, rather than by him telling them about it. I suppose we'll see if there are teams for which that just doesn't work. I hope either Self is right, or realizes that this team is different in time to do something about it. Perhaps he's saying to himself "well, I'm not going to make any major philosophical changes in coaching as long as we're still in the hunt for league titles and a high tourney seed, because I may need to cobble together some wins for these guys with playcalling in the tournament and I don't want to burn through my arsenal". Or maybe I'm being too complimentary of Self. One thing's for certain, this season has suddenly turned into one of his toughest coaching jobs since he arrived at KU.

(end part 1 of 3)


kennethst 1 year, 2 months ago

EJ sure deserves a lot of blame. But you know who else? Ben Mc. He has played very poorly lately. It's a shame. Hopefully......they will break out. I seem to recall everyone had given up on the 1988 KU team.


HawkKlaw 1 year, 2 months ago

I don't know about you guys, but I'm not counting this team out because of two losses. I'm not counting this team out because we lost at home to Okie St. Statistically, those things are bound to happen, even to a powerhouse like KU. If Elijah shores up his PG play and the rest of the team actually makes some shots, this team is as good as any in the country.

Look at the stats. Shooting 30% from the field while only hitting 14% of your 3PT shots is going to spell a loss almost every time. TCU shot better than their average last night and KU shot far worse. KU deserved to lose that game.

But no way am I counting this team out. If you think Withey, Releford, BMac, Young and Elijah are going to lay down and die because of a loss to TCU, you're sorely mistaking. Rock Chalk.


offline 1 year, 2 months ago

Jhawkr, better wear orange as blue is out.


mejayhawk 1 year, 2 months ago

And now for something completely different...?


jhawkr 1 year, 2 months ago

Really NO ONE should be overly surprised. This years team has been trending downward over the past two months.

Close wins over teams we should have blown out. Plus let's face it ..... the Big 12 is not even close to a power conference this year. If it hadn't been for McLemore's big games in December and January, we would have lost 6 to 8 games by now.

The sad thing is the Hawks trot out four seniors and a stud freshman as starters. I could see us struggling at times if we only played freshmen and sophmores.

Even if they turn it around over the next several games, I would have no confidence in this team come tournament time ! This is the earliest I can remember that I am already looking forward to next year ....... and I have tickets to the game at OK State ! The question now is do I wear orange under my KU blue or KU Blue under my Orange shirt ? Next year both of my boy's will be at OK State. For now they are steadfast KU fans through and through ......


RCJHGOKANSAS 1 year, 2 months ago

last year....many people thought the team wasn't good enough to compete....the team didn't believe it ....and they had great team chemistry....I remember the guys saying the liked playing together....

fast forward to this year......everyone expects the team to win the probably believes (prior to the last two games) they are going to easily win the conference....this team probably doesn't have the best chemistry..........for whatever reason, they don't have the best it is probably going to be very difficult to go far this year....UNLESS...they have some pride, believe in themselves...and learn how to play together in a cohesive are what you are....and they have shown multiple times they are not good offensively.....


offline 1 year, 2 months ago

This will kill the morale of the players and it will only get worse.


offline 1 year, 2 months ago

Why are the ESPN announcers saying that KU needs to look at KU replacing Self?


Jim Jackson 1 year, 2 months ago

Guys, what about putting Anrio out there? Does anyone else think he gives us a better shot to win? I say we ease him in with repetitions and have Elijah split time with him to take the pressure off of him.



offline 1 year, 2 months ago

This better be Selfs last year. Bring on Doc Sadler.


Robert Murphy 1 year, 2 months ago

What KU needs is more coaches. They only have five on the bench. Three head coaches and one assistant. I suggest it is time for the coaches to run the steps at the Allen. Only kidding, I don't want to be responsible.


Reuben_J_Cogburn 1 year, 2 months ago

Saturday's game will determine my drinking habits for the next two months.

If we win, I will be that happy, fun drunk that everyone wants to be around.

Lose, and I will more than likely be the guy sitting in his living room with a bottle of whiskey and a revolver.

Please, Bill.....please don't let me become that guy.


Max Ledom 1 year, 2 months ago

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. If I knew we had THIS many coaches better than Self, I would have made the move years ago, and just have all of you coach from the bench! I'm sure you know much more than Self. I'm sure you could all do a better job. Shut up. This is not on coach at all. I saw a group of players that looked like they didn't even FEEL like playing basketball yesterday. They looked like they didn't want to win! That is not on coach! These two losses happened because the players were not doing what they needed to! It does make me laugh though, losing 2 games in a row means the sky is falling for us. I think we all have been a little spoiled and needed a reality check. We weren't going to go 2000+ games without consecutive losses. It happens. Now, shut up and believe. This is the same team that went on the road and BEAT Ohio State. The same team that DISMANTLED Colorado. The same team that went on the road and BEAT KState. We are National Championship caliber. Not a doubt in my mind.


machinegun 1 year, 2 months ago

Big Bill wants to focus on wins and losses rather than stats. We are sitting at 19-3 and tied for first. OK-got it.

But how do you miss that many bunnies every doggone game? Crappy shooting continues...inside, outside, and everywhere in between. This situation is not about lack of coaching. Big Bill is working as hard as ever.

Elijah Johnson as the leader of our team must fulfill his obligations. This situation is about players not getting their minds right. Their heads are full of scrambled eggs right now. For Elijah, who must lead by example, this is a good place to start because his head is not in the game for some reason.


sbucks 1 year, 2 months ago

Hey coach, please no more three hour team meetings, I think you wore them out!


Colby Hebert 1 year, 2 months ago

I overlooked TCU as well. Instead of heading somewhere to watch the game, I stayed in with my girl watching DVD's of the 70's series Wonder Woman.

I am glad I got to watch Lynda Carter run around instead of TCU embarrassing us.

We have had some bad losses in the tournament, we have fell to a few trap games since I have been a fan, but never ever have I checked a score in a KU game and it shows 7:36 left in the first half and we have two points. I thought ESPN's site was broken. This was a truly historic loss. TCU is not a feisty mid major in the tournament who got hot with outside shooting and beat us. TCU may be the worst team we have ever had in the BIG 12. They were not even full strength, they were down two starters. They are not even close to being an NIT team. Unacceptable.

I am not the sky is falling type, but this was not Kansas basketball. This should not happen with 4 seniors starting, ever. I support all the players and staff but this should not be a wake up call, this is like being dragged out of bed and tarred and feathered before your morning coffee.

If I was Bill Self my starting lineup next game would be Rio, AWIII, Ben, Wesley and Traylor. Even if it is just for the tip-off until the first chance to substitute. Show the seniors, especially 5th year seniors, that this is unacceptable at Kansas. I played sports, the A team is usually guys who have security and roles and are not fighting for playing time. They play for pride, for championships. If that is not enough, put the B Team out there awhile, these guys are playing to prove they belong on the court, and at least their effort will be there.



JakeBarnes 1 year, 2 months ago

If you are a lady I sure will "bare with" you. If your a man, no dice. I will "bear" what you have to say.

BTW, didn't have to bear much. You made sense.


offline 1 year, 2 months ago

TCU Trent out coached Self on all levels. It is time for Self to leave, as he has been overdue for the last 3 years. It all started with recruiting B Morningstar and playing him as he was a complete dud, while Johnson sit on the bench. What a dumb move on Self, and people have said so from the fans and media. ESPN were saying that Kansas wasn't recruiting and the experts were saying "where is kansas". You could see this disaster.coming. If a coach can't get a better performance out of a mediocre team, as this is, he better be replaced.

Now replacement of Self. KU presently has a head coach on the bench and that would be Doc Sadler who just came to KU. He could have gotton a win out of this, even with the mediocre players that are on this team now. This will cost KU in recruiting for years to come, so if you are a KU, fan be ready for a pretty tuff ride for the next few years. As Self said this "this is the worst team KU has ever put on the floor" and guess what that coming from a despicable coach. This is worst than Bucknell, Northwestern Iowa, VCU and the then other teams. Self has made a laughing stock out KU as far as basketball.

Kansas ST.will be the basketball team in the state of Kansas.

KU, kiss your @ss good bye.


KUfreebird 1 year, 2 months ago

Yeah our offense is a little slow lately but those guys had no intensity and missed several wide open looks off plays that Bill designed. Its not Bills fault if he was out there he would have ran the floor a lot better than Johnson. The players just need to have more fight and more confidence, but to put the blame all on Bill is ridiculous. Those guys were the top ranked basketball players in the country coming out of high school. If they cant take some responsibility and step up and play to their potential then yeah there going to loose games. All year we've rarely had the whole team playing their heart out and still managed to win. Now they need to understand everyone has to play hard at all times or they can loose to anyone. The talent is there the heart just isn't.

And anyone on here who thinks they're a better coach than Bill is just plain stupid. So save all your 'suggestions' and 'criticisms' because Bill doesn't care and neither should any true KU fan.


nuleafjhawk 1 year, 2 months ago

Man - I really wanted Kentucky and/or N. Carolina to be the laughingstock of college basketball this year.........


Alan Mills 1 year, 2 months ago

Extremely disappointing performance last night by the Jayhawks. I would agree with many, in my 40 years of following KU basketball, I cannot remember a team playing worse from wire to wire. However, I remain ever optimistic that these Jayhawks will right the ship. We have all seen what they are capable of, and it is good.

That being said, there are some things that really concern me, especially coming off last night's game: 1. I'm really tired of hearing about how good Perry Ellis is. He simply isn't. Being good in high school, or in practice, is not the same as performing in games. He doesn't show up. He has, with one exception, been a non-factor or even a liability in every game he's played this year. Having grown up and played high school basketball in Kansas, it is concerning that he is the best player to come out of the state in the last 4 years! Good players show up for games. I was glad he didn't return last night. 2. Why does Nadir Tharpe have the green light? He cannot make a layup, not just last night, and he is a suspect perimeter shooter. He should have a red light, perhaps tinted slightly orange. He looks, as he did last year, totally nervous the entire time he is on the court. Again, good players don't show those nerves all the time, like he does. 3. Johnson is clearly slowed by injury. No other way around it. He had two weeks back in December where the team played only games on Saturdays, and he got some of his legs back. Since then, it's been downhill every game. He cannot guard, and he has almost nothing in his drives or shots. That's fine, because he is the leader of the team. But, he has to play within his limitations. Time to admit the injury and move forward. 4. Defense was the worst I've seen in years, certainly going back to the Williams era, the last several games. The players are unable to get through screens, unable to stop penetration, and unable to rebound. When you rely on help two or three times in a possession, bad things happen. That's where the team was last night. It's time to get back to guarding your man, taking pride in guarding your man, and not simply relying on the help every play. We've all seen this team defend, so they can certainly do it. 5. Free throws hurt the Jayhawks again last night. This has been a recurring theme this year. Unfortunately, you can practice free throws forever and still miss in games. I think the free throw shooting is a clear sign of nerves. When you are confidant, you make free throws. Look at TCU last night. They had all the confidence in the world in the second half, of course. So, guys that shoot 50% or less hit their free throws. That one is on the coaches, and not just Coach Self. They have to work hard to instill confidence in the players. I'm sure they are trying, but in my humble opinion, they must redouble their efforts on that front.

These are all things that can be addressed before Saturday.


DallasJayhawk1 1 year, 2 months ago

I was at the game. I've never seen us so lethargic. I never question Self but he should have pulled the starters to send a message. There was no energy, no one wanting to step up. I'm a little worried now that we are going to have a confidence problem. Not having a PG with toughness and playing with an edge like Taylor or Collins that can also run the offense is becoming more and more apparent.


jayhawkeratheart 1 year, 2 months ago

It's so bad even "Jaybate" is speechless, must be hiding under that rock, you know, rock bottom.


objectiveKUfan 1 year, 2 months ago

First post so bare with me....

Remember the Michigan St. game when Self told the media that this team was too quiet on the floor? The only person that speaks is Kevin Young and he was injured that game? Maybe THAT is this teams problem. Zero communication. No floor general. No leadership on the floor. No one screaming and yelling on the floor. Our Seniors are beyond passive, Releford the most obvious choice here. Remember when Collins would waive off his team and take the last shot when the offense wasn't working? Has EJ ever done this? The only person I see with any confidence, any signs of life is NAADIR THARPE, a SOPH! Now do Tharpe and EJ even get along? Comments have been made in the past that they are competitive in practice and get at each other more than anyone else. Tharpe is willing to put this team on his back, but will the seniors let him? Will these passive seniors listen to a soph? I believe this is one of those intangibles that Self won't be able to solve on this squad.....

One more thing....I'm not sure why Releford gets so much love. I understand he is a stud defender and his numbers show he's a great shooter but that's only cause most of his pts. are on the fast break!! Honestly, he only comes alive when he's in Sprint Center playing in front of family. Other than that he reverts back into his shell. I'm sorry to say but this team led full of seniors all have a bit of Releford-itus...ducking between their tails and hiding when they're called upon....intangibles that Self is struggling to find answers for...for the last 4 yrs he hasn't had an answer for.....

I believe leadership is this teams number one problem and that is extremely sad considering the fact that this team has four red shirt seniors coming off a national title run.


Tony Bandle 1 year, 2 months ago

Never, never, never has the loss of Zach Peters been more evident than last night:

1] Jeff - Finesse player. 2] Kevin - Skinny. 3] BenMac - Skinny. 4] Travis - Short. 5] Elijah - Out of position. 6] Perry - Finesse Player. 7] Nadiir - Short. 8] Jamari - Raw. 9] AWIII - Raw. 10 Rio - Raw. 11] Landon - Redshirt.

You all can see, Zach could have been that "animal" that could mix it up and protect his teammates not unlike a hockey enforcer. We have no bruiser to counteract an opponent's goon. It's more than a matter of being's also a matter of being undersized.

Maybe we need to take off the redshirt on Lucas and throw him into the mix, although that sounds pretty desperate at this point.


BPSkelly 1 year, 2 months ago

The extreme emotions here arent required or apt. The loss isnt "nothing" and its not "the end of the world". More likely in the middle of that somewhere. Or at least not as end of the world as folks here are making it. Calm down chicken littles.

The reality is this game was lost from the neck up and anyone who watched it saw we were in shock most of the night. All of us amateur psychologists here arent coming up with anything that this coaching staff probably wasnt already aware about.

Self has been right though. This team has been soft physically all year. After last nights 'performance' you can put us down as being soft mentally as well. I personally didnt think Self's public dressing down of EJ over the weekend was smart... and tonights game makes me think that assessment was correct.

Self's acknowledgement of us not having a PG is correct. Of course who's fault is that? It's not like he had a PG leave early for the draft... he had two years to come up recruiting-wise with an option better than what we have and didnt/couldnt. All the other stuff floating around out there is real and is a factor. But at its core we dont have a guy who can round up this crew when we're outta our minds like we've been for the past few weeks.

Time for folks to keep expectations in check id say.


nuleafjhawk 1 year, 2 months ago

The city of Manhattan, Ks and the whole state of Missouri will be printing T-shirts today.

They'll be spelled wrong, but they'll be printing them.


Micky Baker 1 year, 2 months ago

The world didn't come to an end last night. The players need an attitude adjustment. No, they weren't intimidated last night. Their heads weren't in the game until it was too late. They didn't execute, because they thought they could just show up and win last night. The most embarrassed are the players. They missed shots they normally make. They made defensive plays that ended up skipping of their hands into a TCU player that the pass wasn't intended for. We played bad, TCU didn't play good. This is fixable, but it's the attitude of the players and up to them to wake up. Bill Self already knows and I'm pretty sure he has told them. I hope they read this. You, the players have control over fixing this. ATTITUDE, Killer Instinct, EFFORT. Remember, the things that got Kansas into the National Championship game a year ago. It wasn't that long ago, but the world didn't end last night.


DaNeille Davis 1 year, 2 months ago

I just want to smack Releford up side the head and wake his a$$ up! What was wrong with him last night? He shied away from shooting and he's our best shooter! Shoot the damn ball TR!!


W Keith Swinehart II 1 year, 2 months ago

The classless, disrespectful headline of this article sums up the attitude that led to the loss. Even in the Big 12 one should respect his "lowly" opponent.


Justin Kruse 1 year, 2 months ago

Seriously, I think we'll be alright. Embarrassed, yes. Humbled, hopefully. But still Kansas.

I would have liked to see more of Jamari in there w/ Withey. I think he's got more of the mentality and physicality we needed last night. Also, I think White could have come in sooner but then he air balled his first attempt so who knows. Can't remember a game where everyone was off as much as last night.

Bill Self still has my vote for President. Rock Chalk


CINCYHAWKFAN 1 year, 2 months ago

Here is what I find worrisome... and I haven’t exactly heard Coach Self address it: Jeff simply doesn’t demand a double team from opposing defenses. We don’t have a four that has demonstrated the ability to be an offensive threat at all. Coach talks about the poor play the last several games, but there has also been a change in the way teams defend us. No one runs double teams at Jeff – or worries about Kevin or Perry from the high post. They are focusing on our guarding our perimeter and inviting the post players to beat us. I am not so sure this can be solved with the personnel we have on the roster. Any thoughts?


Jim Jackson 1 year, 2 months ago

Guys, what about putting Anrio out there? Does anyone else think he gives us a better shot to win? I say we ease him in with repetitions and have Elijah split time with him to take the pressure off of him.



Justin Lindsley 1 year, 2 months ago

No point guard. No leader. Tharpe isn't going to be any better than EJ. What about next year? I hope that Mason or Frankamp can run the show, because if they can't.....we are going to be right back here next year.

Ellis has got to figure this game out. We desperately need some scoring. Where was Ghost? One shot in an entire game. Maybe he would have been on fire and made 4-5 threes. How will we ever know now? Pathetic show from a senior "led" group!


Reuben_J_Cogburn 1 year, 2 months ago

The simple fact is this...

We went from arrogant going into the OSU game on Saturday, to completely disheveled and timid last night.

Quite the mentality switch.

This game at OU is shaping out to be the most important game of the season. If we don't find our way back to sanity, it will be a long, fruitless season.


DanR 1 year, 2 months ago

It's 13-22 at halftime, and coach can't stop himself from pointing out mistakes on defense: ....... Of the first half, Self noted: “It was awful, but even as bad as it was, and it was horrendous, if we are sound defensively and get stops at the end of the clock, we are down four to six as opposed to nine.”


TexasRockChalk 1 year, 2 months ago

Good perspective HEM. I was at the game last night and was shocked like everyone else. I did my grad school work at TCU and of course, was pro-KU the whole way.

I slept maybe an hour or two the whole night. The Mrs. had to remind me the sun did come up this dark and gloomy things seem to be.

If we win at OU and beat KSU we'll be back on track....I keep telling myself anyway :)


BCRavenJHawkfan 1 year, 2 months ago

Forget talking about the lack of offense or lack of energy or inability to go inside or lack of a go to player or blah, blah, blah.....

These guys have suddenly lost any FUNDAMENTAL skills.

I'm talking 8th grade level dribbling, passing, rebounding.

Myself, I lost interest in this circus early last night and switched over to watch The Americans on FX.


FearlessJayhawk 1 year, 2 months ago

I guess it's time to get out my golf clubs and practice my chippin and puttin.


Scut Farkus 1 year, 2 months ago

All season long Self has been criticizing this team (with only 2 loses). Poor defense, no offense, dumb plays, no pressure, no guards or ball handlers. You beat a dog enough times and it loses it's will. Last night Self was out coached. Did he really think starting Ellis was going to help? The only major factor in this loss is that KU is going to have to finish very strong if they want a 1 or 2 seed.


Jack Wilson 1 year, 2 months ago

Although it's cloudy, the sun did come up today.

This team is lacking in chemistry. It's an intangible. It's tough to pin down. It's something last year's team developed. This team doesn't have it yet.

Coach Self is the man that has to deliver the solutions. Reasonably, we should expect Self to learn from his mistakes. But many coaches are stubborn. I tend to think that coach Self will become for flexible if he loses more. Otherwise, his approach is completely vindicated in his mind as losses are rare events .. ones that although shocking (Bucknell, Bradley, UNI, VCU, for example) .. he can write off tournament oddities.

But I am pretty confident that coach Self does not believe that he has contributed in any significant way to the above losses, or any other loss. I think he believes firmly in what he does. No real slam there. Folks that are great at what they do have to be arrogant and confident.

And to be sure, Self has reason to be arrogant and confident. Without doubt, what he does wins us games. Remember that. Although we can criticize, his methods win us games. Meaning, on all levels we win games in large part because of our coach.

My only criticisms of coaching are really just tweaks -- recognize earlier when to spice in the press every other or every third change of possession; recognize the game dynamic a little earlier and be a bit more flexible on going with other personnel options; and on a big picture level, give guys more playing time who you may need to help you later so we're not dealing with a rusty, unprepared player.

That's it.

As I said, the sun did come up today. This is a nondescript conference loss. Who cares? Really, who cares? If we don't win the conference title this season, I won't lose any sleep. We have the last eight.

The key now is for the players to understand that what they may have thought they were entitled to, is not an entitlement. And for coach Self to take this mix of players and get the trajectory pointed upward. We have been humbled .. when I say "we", I mean you, me, the coaches, and the players. We. KU. And that's a good thing.

After all, this is about March (and April), not February.

And by the way, I was very disappointed .. my headline would have been "Great Horny Toads". In deference to Yosemite Sam, of course. No such luck.


jbal32 1 year, 2 months ago

Jason King said from an RPI standpoint this is the worst upset in the last 20 years. I couldn't believe what I was seeing last night. Well at least we got this years' Davidson, Northern Iowa, and VCU loss out of the way early. That's a positive........ right?


hjarrett 1 year, 2 months ago

Does everyone firget that the 2008 team lost 3 games before winning it all. No, not 2 in a row, but sometimes the team has to be knocked down a peg, in this case 2, to begin to play to their true potential. Rock Chalk fair weather fans!


Dan Harris 1 year, 2 months ago

Well that sucked! First game I've been able to attend in person in over two years and I'm treated to whatever the hell that was. Surrounded by TCU fans at work so it should be a fun day! As for the game, a couple of observations.

  1. Withey plays like a 7 footer on defense but on offense he tries to play like he's 6' 5"
  2. EJ has ZERO confidence right now. Time to start Tharpe for a few games.
  3. Nadar was the only player that had any energy and looked like he gave a damn(although he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn).
  4. The dribble weave is worthless without something going on behind it.
  5. Our defense was great for the first 30 seconds of the shot clock but kept breaking down in the last 5 seconds OR giving them second chances by not blocking out.
  6. I think I'm getting the TCU flu and might not be able to make it in to work, cough,cough,sniff,sniff!! RCJH!!!

ATR920 1 year, 2 months ago

The biggest mistake Self ever made at KU was recruiting ans signing Josh Selby. This goes back to him. By getting involved with Selby we got ourselves into one of the dirtiest recruitments and ended up bringing in a bad player that did nothing at KU. What does this have to do with this team? Well if we recruit another point guard he would be a junior leading this team today instead of trying to have a SG be our pg. But the biggest thing Selby did to KU and Self was ruined our reputation and our ability to bring in any good pg. We took the #1 player in the class and left as a terrible 2nd round bust. Now anytime we recruit a PG the other coaches recruiting that PG just have to bring up Selby and we have no shot. We havent been able to sign a PG since Selby for a reason. And to make it worse we dont have a PG coming in next year either we missed out on about 10 different guys. If people think Frank Mason is going to be our savior at PG, you will be dissappointed.


ccarp 1 year, 2 months ago

Someone please fire up the treadmill!


gammimc 1 year, 2 months ago

Since the win @ Ohio St., we've been thinking/playing as if all we have to do is show up. We're overrated, have been for several weeks, and aren't the darlings that we think.

Hopefully, this will be the wake up call we've needed.


NoteToSelf 1 year, 2 months ago

I have been watching KU basketball since I was in college at KU in the mid 70's. This is easily the worst game I have ever seen a KU team play and maybe the worst EVER. However suggesting HCBS should be fired is absurd. He tried AW3 (air ball), Rio, Wesley, and even Nico with no success. I agree that we could use a better PG because EJ isn't a true PG. A PG should be the easiest position on the floor to recruit since there are so many in High School. That is on Bill.

I don't know why Travis doesn't shoot more. Why, why, why? What happened to the "high low" pass that got KU so many easy buckets? That is on Bill.

I will be in Norman for the KU game on Saturday and hope they break out of this funk. Students better "bring it" on Big Monday for the KSU game. The Hawks obviously need all the help they can get. RCJH.


David Gisi 1 year, 2 months ago

I thought I would wake up this morning and discover that game was just part of a nightmare. I can't believe that Coach Self could make me laugh after that game, but this quote did: "The great thing,” Self cracked, “is we had three assists on our three baskets. We were really sharing the ball.” I really thought after one of those timeouts we were just gonna see a complete lineup overhaul and put everyone responsible for that fiasco on the bench. Not sure the coaches kide with Rio and White on the floor could've been much worse. Normally, i would complain about Tharpe shooting so much, but at least he took it at the basket and got to the line. Travis won't shoot and no one else can make a basket. How do you fix that? The coaches can't go out and shoot the ball, but it sure seems like they should be able to fix the fact that everybody just looks lost out there. EJ stops his dribble while moving to his right at the top of the key for no real reason and looks to pass behind him and theres no one there. At times it just seems like they are going through motions and have no ability to react to what the opposition is doing. Its as if the only way they can play is if the other team does exactly what KU expects them to do in any given situation.


Mel Clare 1 year, 2 months ago

Why did Releford only take one shot? Why wont Self leave Ellis in for more than 2 minutes so he can get into a rythm of some sort? If the guards were shooting so damn bad why did he not let White or rio stay in longer than he di? I believe White and McClemore are the only ones who can stretch the defense at this time. I think that losing the kid from Texas and red shirting Lucas that our interior depth is hurting us right now. Losing a 6'9 230 and a 6'10 230 guy can only hurt you! No inside scoring threats except Whithey and he does not have enough muscle to move anyone!

Next years class is a huge help......BIG guard, Big wing, BIG Embid............shooter in Frankamp............

I do hope McClemore stays one more season.


Steve Yeakel 1 year, 2 months ago

This team has issues, and I am glad they are being exposed now, with time still left to hopefully fix them, rather than limp into the NCAA tourney and get knocked out in the first or second round by a Northern Illinois or a Killer B team. It is the NCAA tourney that is important, the purpose of the regular season is to be your best by then. This team is the one that Coach Self recruited and coaches, so maybe there should be a limit to his badmouthing them and throwing them under the bus. Bill needs to solve use of the high low when no one is guarding the high, trying to apply backcourt pressure when Withey's man is wide open to break the pressure, needs to move EJ to backup and give Naadir time to become a good or great starting point guard, needs to teach wings like Relaford and McLemore to be good dribblers, needs to keep giving Perry chances to get going, lots of coaching that needs to be done here as well. Bill is a great coach, I would never trade him for anyone, but he has to meet this challenge as well.


AsadZ 1 year, 2 months ago

What has happened to this team from Dec to Jan/Febb is mind bogglin

I mean we beat OSU on their turf

We beat very good teams in Colarado, Belmont, Richmond etc by large margins

And now we lose to TCU after a home loss to Okie State

What has caused this dramatic collapse?

What has changed?

A lot of questions but no clear answer?


Jonathan Allison 1 year, 2 months ago

Bill Self said before the season started that this team would struggle to score. So I guess this loss just proves that coach knows what he's talking about.


oldrocker 1 year, 2 months ago

It seems to me that Dr. Evil stole our MoJo...Bill needs to go back to December and get it back!


KRIMSONANDBLU 1 year, 2 months ago

Not the first or last. .....losses suck, but at least your still breathing and lucky you get to whine about something that is out of your Control....Go KU season is still young and winnable....When KU is firing on all cylindars they are a joy to watch. we usually do to teams what they did to us.....GUT CHECK!


Jason Keller 1 year, 2 months ago

Elijah needs to just keep shooting! His stroke looks pretty good it just wasn't falling until there at the end. Just keep shooting!


KUmtbiker 1 year, 2 months ago

Every coach's plan on how to beat KU in several simple steps... Offense, draw Jeff to a high screen, pass quickly to the back side for an easy shot, and if you miss, crash the boards for an easy put-back. Defense, pack it in the middle, go under screens to prevent the drive and jump the easy pass around the perimeter. When they shoot the 3, block out for an easy rebound. When your confidence grows, shoot from anywhere and you'll be able to have your best game ever.


Mike Barnhart 1 year, 2 months ago

Over the last 10 years we've seen Coach Self adjust his teams style of play to the talent on the floor. He's won with NBA talent and he's won with over achievers. What's different this season?:

  1. We don't pass well. Good Self teams move the ball side to side without the ball "sticking."

  2. We don't disrupt passing lanes and get easy transition baskets.

  3. We don't pass a lot of toughness test. Read Jay Bilas' "Toughness" essay and it's so obvious... we're soft!

  4. Danny Manning and Barry Hinson are gone, replaced by Doc Sadler... Just sayin'!

  5. Two coaches have sons on the team. Is this disruptive?

  6. We usually have a guard rotation with a primary handler. Not sure what to call our back court this year; a two playing the one spot and a couple of 2/3 hybrids?

  7. Coach Self doesn't seem to be taking responsibility. He keeps blaming players but the team looks poorly coached right now.

Point is, this feels different than most years. Coach Self needs to evaluate what's changed and get back to what's worked well in the past.


Raydude 1 year, 2 months ago

If you can't play with skill,,,due to lack of confidence or whatever, then play with effort. Why did you even show up??


PhearThePhog 1 year, 2 months ago

I don't think the root of this problem is HCBS or team confidence ... it's a team that has a complete lack of fire and intensity. Does HCBS play a role in that ... yes. But, he can't make these guys play with heart. We're stepping onto the court expecting to win instead of coming out with the resolve to win. Especially when playing at home or against a team we should beat ... which are most of them. We didn't see that team show up at Ohio State. While Withey's numbers were OK last night I think he exhibits this lax attitude the most. He should have dominated that game last night with no double team. He's not prepared to move when he gets the ball down low and is rarely in position for rebounds when he wasn't pulled away from the basket. Can't tell you how many times I watched him stand around watching the game happen around him. This was far from a one man loss but it's that mindset that has this team in a funk. The players need to decide amongst themselves, like the 2008 team, to go out from the tip-off to the horn and play winning basketball ... high energy, crisp passes, solid screens, boxout rebounds, smart ballhandleing, etc. HCBS can draw it up but they must execute ... and it's pretty obvious that they aren't. They need to start playing up to the demands of the AFH pre-game video and not see it as their birthright.


Aligned 1 year, 2 months ago

Last week we were not as good as people thought we were and this week we’re not as bad as most think. We just have to find a way to convince our points that they’re not shooting guards.


Mel Clare 1 year, 2 months ago

Self did not make a strong enough statement to EJ.

Tharpe should have started but not shoot as much! White should have played more because he is a better shooter than EJ Releford ALOT better than he has shown lately

When your senior back court is what 2 for forever? You can not win any games......

Oklahoma and K Satae are drooling right now wanting to face this team!


Rocky Curtis 1 year, 2 months ago

My biggest frustration comes from watching Jeff and Travis play without (imho) passion. They both needed to step up. Isn't that what we all expected from Ty last year? Travis was just a "wall flower" waiting to asked to dance. How disappointing!


REHawk 1 year, 2 months ago

If I'm rotation player #9 or #10, I will look for a halftime moment to slip away to find the equipment manager, see if I can be issued a plain grey warmup with snug drawstring hood so that I can huddle on the far end of the bench incognito, unattached from this Meltdown.


William Blake 1 year, 2 months ago

How to fix the "mentorship issue."

I believe CS understands exactly what I posted above. I think this topic has to do with why he likes to recruit "troubled" players. TT was a troubled player. Did TT make CS his mentor? I'm not close enough to KU basketball to know that answer. Someone in here does.

I wonder how hard it is today for college coaches to find players looking for a mentor? Coming from a high standard of basketball excellence (KU basketball), we pretty much only recruit players at a certain skill level and higher, who have been given plenty of attention before arriving in Lawrence. Are these players "reachable?"

Maybe we are having an issue in recruiting. Maybe we need to work a little bit harder to find players at a certain quality level of skill, while having the openness and need for mentorship. I've paid close attention to Jamari. His background points him into being someone hungry for a mentor. Is that happening?

Or do we have the wrong energy coming out of our coaches?

Let's face one thing; today, we are at "gut check" status. Every player and coach needs a gut check right now. Somehow, this team performed at a level possibly no KU team (in it's illustrious history) has reached before... at least for one half of basketball.

"How do we fix this?" must be asked. To find an answer we best first ask, "how did we get here?"

John Wooden figured it out years ago. At a certain point in his career, he stepped back from the "X's" and "O's" and turned to philosophy. He was able to turn around his own position on this planet; he became a mentor to probably more athletes than any coach from any sport in all of history. That's what made John Wooden great... more than the trophies that followed.


s6u6r6f 1 year, 2 months ago

The inability to watch many games is usually a curse, but today it became a blessing. Gamecast is not as painful as eyefuls of misery. I watched an unmoving screen with the score locked at 0 - 2 for so long I thought the net was down. It was discombobulating. Painful. It was like a two-seed losing to a 128-seed in a madly expanded tournament. But let's spin positive: perhaps this aberration will be this team's VCU, its Bradley, its Belmont. Thinking metamagically, perhaps now a curse has been used up, a curse that will now not fall in the first or second round of the tourney. Rock chalk.


Joseph Bullock 1 year, 2 months ago

Did I really hear someone say it is time for a Coaching change? In a different thread, I actually put a lot of the blame for this, and the OSU loss, on Coach Self, but there was never, ever, even a hint of me saying, or wanting to get rid of him. That is absolutely "Ridiculous"!!! We will get our game back, and all of you dayum "Fair Weather Fans" probably have rooted for K.U. in Basketball, and K-State in Football. Pathetic!


Jayhawks Rock 1 year, 2 months ago

Feces happens. Not pretty, but at least it's over. So it goes. I look forward to the oklahoma game because I love watching KU....most of the time. Hey, cheer up! We held them to 22 first half points. That's freaking awesome.


BringBackMark 1 year, 2 months ago

This team looks like they've been blasted by the flu or the new "Super Bug" going around. Withey looked like he was going to pass out a couple of times last night. Maybe I'm seeing something that's not there but they sure seem sluggish like they're weak from being ill more than just going in the tank.

Even then, it doesn't explain why we can't get our shooters to shoot. Maybe we're seeing the drawback to 5th year senior unselfish role players. Even BMac is too hesitant though.


William Blake 1 year, 2 months ago

It is difficult to write the real answers for this team because none of us sit in at practices and know the relationships from within this team and coaches.

Now that I have that out of the way... I'll throw in my guess as to what may partially be going on here.

It seems to me that there is a kind of disconnect between our coaching staff and the players.

I'll have to explain what I mean by "disconnect." For the average person, this would mean the coaches and players are not communicating well with each other. That is not what I mean.

Back in my HS days I had the good fortune of having a special coach. He had a good understanding of the game, and could communicate it well to the team. But what made him exceptional was his ability to reach players at another level. It wasn't long after we all connected with coach and a relationship was born. Through that relationship came "mentorship." Coach became a mentor to basically every player that was ever looking for a mentor. I fell into that category.

From that point on in my life I became a better person. I refrained from several questionable activities in fear of having it get back to coach... my mentor. He helped give me a goal, to straighten out my life, and a reason why I should do it. And to this day, I still protect our relationship... my mentor... some 40+ years after our relationship started.

When a coach becomes a mentor to his players, it eliminates the possibility of those players falling to the level of performance we all experienced with this team last night.

I see a disconnect, from the level of perspective I understand... As Paul Harvey said often, "now you know the rest of the story."

Respect and mentorship are two different things. I believe CS has the respect of his players. That means they listen to what he says, and basically believe what he is saying. That "connect" will only take a team so far. Mentorship brings the heart into the equation. We all know what the heart can do for team play (ie last year's result in March).

I believe this issue is at the core of what went wrong in January. We haven't really performed well since the new year. While we've basically hung around at the same standard, most teams in the country advanced to become more-competitive with our team. This is obvious now, as we've fallen off the momentum cliff quite a while back.

I'll call my coach tomorrow to discuss this game, and to check on his health.


kellyrojo78 1 year, 2 months ago

With 3 minutes left Tarp and Johnson were a combined 2-20 from the field. Never going to win a game shooting 10%. I' not sure how Self can coach Tharpe to make 2 foot layups?? Anyway, its not all doom and gloom. We needed slap in the face!


Gerry Butler 1 year, 2 months ago

couldn't have said it any bettr Salt Lake Hawk. nw is when its time to see just how loyal the jayhawk nation really is. surreal's statment is so ridicilous that its ALMOST funny. does anyone realize how many schools and their fans would love to have their teams sitting at 19-3 at this point and time of the year? are we struggling? hell ya we are. is the players showing lack of confidence? hell ya they are.are the guys goin thru very very hard times right now? ya. agreed this is the low point, and ya its only up from here. am i frustrated, upset, hell ya but am i jumpin off the TRUE JAYHAWK FAN BASE? uh no. but to make a statment that maybe its time to make a coaching change? are you SERIOUS? have you taken a hit to the head lately? i mean really? why don't you go jump on somebody elses bandwagon for awhile there are plenty and i MEAN PLEANTY of other school bandwagon fans that would love to have you so caled cheering for them when times are good. people like you we do not need. lets get rid of a coach that has won more championships than total losses at home, lets get rid of the coach that has won multiple coach of the year awards ya lets get rid of the coach that has won almost 85 % of his games ya that will work lmao. unbelivable do you realize how many schools would die to have coach self at their school. thats all i have to take a aspirin i have a headache unreal. they will come thru this so you keep smokin whatever it is that casued you to make that pathetic statement there guy and GOOD LUCK GO HAWKS


ajhk 1 year, 2 months ago

I have to put this loss squarely on the shoulders of HCBS.

This is not a call to replace our coach like some fool above suggested, not at all. HCBS has been arguably the best coach in College hoops for nearly the past decade, no doubt.

There has only been one small though outstanding blemish on his career thus far: losses to the least likely teams at the most unlikely time. I do not need to name them.

This loss was pure and simply due to a lack in mental preparation. HCBS should in no way let them think this was going to be a given. Had they been focused, it likely would have been a walk in the park.

This is not a passing, shooting, dribbling, effort, or communication loss though the stats read like it. This is a loss of pre-game mental preparedness.

Was TCU even mentioned at that 3 hour meeting the other day?

Our coach is the best in the game but I hope he learns from this as well and maybe the lesson will come in handy in tourney time.

Let the team take the OK State game. Bill, this one is yours


SaltLakeHawk 1 year, 2 months ago

"If we could start three guys, we’d do that. They make us run five out there. I don’t know who deserves to start.”

great line from Bill.


nostradavid 1 year, 2 months ago

We're in the record book once again!

On the wrong end of the biggest RPI upset ever.

Random thought

Random thought by nostradavid


JayHawkFanToo 1 year, 2 months ago

Suddenly Bill Self has gone from being one of the top coaches in the country to not knowing what to do? I just don't buy it. The team had been in an offensive funk lately and defense had been carrying the team. The plays that were working before are not and the shot that were falling before are not either. i am not sure if it is lack of concentration or a hangover from the OUS game but I believe that the team will regroup and start kicking butt again. Let's not be fair weather fans. TRUST THY SELF!!!


KULA 1 year, 2 months ago

Bill's offense is lame. He can't figure out how to draw up a play to get his struggling floor leader something going towards the basket. He can't figure out how to run a back screen to get his big guy position down low. His predictable offense is picked off time and again as they make the same pass to the wing out top. He's still trying to run the Sherron/Mario miracle three play time and again towards the end of the game when they should be attacking the basket and drawing fouls to stop the clock. Everyone tries to make a pass when they should continue driving to the hole, and they end up making a bad pass because no one else is moving to the bucket, with predictable results--turnover. There's no motion in the offense, except that lame weave play out top, which hasn't produced a basket since Tyshawn left. This one's on Bill. They're running his offense, which has totally bogged down since the Temple game. Bill needs to hire an offensive coordinator.


John Fitzgerald 1 year, 2 months ago

Part of me thinks there was nothing that could have been done because no one was making shots. The other part makes me wonder why Self didn't pull Travis aside and say, "shoot the damn ball." Either way, this loss was a team effort, and also a coaching effort. Doesn't matter who you put the blame on, it happened. And this isn't just a wake up call, it's a giant leap backwards. We are no longer in the conversation for one of best teams in basketball this year. To make up for this loss, we have to win out and win the Big 12 tournament. There are no other ways to erase this loss. And regardless of where we end up in March, no one, and I repeat, NO ONE will forget about this loss. All it does is give teams hope. The opposing coach will show this game footage, and their players eyes will light up, and they will become confident. There will be NO team in the NCAA Tournament worse than TCU, and that's what worries me most. I will still stand by Self and this years Hawks, and after seeing this effort by the ENTIRE team, I now feel Elijah may be our best and only option to lead the team. He has two choices: Lay down and float through the rest of the season, or take the bull by the horns and relight the fire that we lost halfway through the season. Our season rests on Elijah's shoulders. The next 5 games will tell the rest of the season. RCJH and may God bless these young mens' souls.

Once a Jayhawk, always a Jayhawk, Crimson and Blue for life! ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK, ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK, GO KU!


Bill Skeet 1 year, 2 months ago

Note to team: Please get your confidence back. You are so much better than this. Go watch that Ohio State video...

Missing the rock chalk chant.


Hank Cross 1 year, 2 months ago

Self's solution to mix the (non-existent) offense in the first half - play AW3 about a minute.


Jay Dogger 1 year, 2 months ago

If there was an injury or something it could explain this. But this is the same team (on paper) that beat Ohio St.


texashawk10 1 year, 2 months ago

This is the worst performance by a Bill Self KU team period. Texas Tech in '09 is up there, but does not touch tonight. Tonight IMO, was a case of KU thinking the Kansas name on the front of the jersey would be enough to beat an awful team. In all honesty, I believe this team has been playing with an undeserved sense of entitlement for awhile now. Guys are making lazy passes left and right, not getting after 50-50 balls with any kind of conviction, not blocking out on rebounds with authority, and just playing like p***ies right now. Right now there's nothing Self can say or do to make his team play with any heart, passion, or anger because it's on the players now to have someone step up and lead this team, and if no one is willing to step up, it`s going to be a long 5 weeks for everyone.


LAJayhawk 1 year, 2 months ago

Which is the worst:

Elijah Johnson 3-12 for 8 points.

Naadir Tharpe 2-15 for 11 points.

Travis Releford 0-1 for 1 point.

**NOTE: The third on the list is a 5th-year senior, and the most accurate shooter in the Big 12.


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