Wednesday, December 25, 2013

Bill Self says Tyler no snitch, but …

Kansas head coach Bill Self jokes with his son Tyler after the win over Saint Louis in the CBE Classic, Tuesday, Nov. 20, 2012 at the Sprint Center in Kansas City, Missouri.

Kansas head coach Bill Self jokes with his son Tyler after the win over Saint Louis in the CBE Classic, Tuesday, Nov. 20, 2012 at the Sprint Center in Kansas City, Missouri.



Kansas head coach Bill Self jokes with his son Tyler after the win over Saint Louis in the CBE Classic, Tuesday, Nov. 20, 2012 at the Sprint Center in Kansas City, Missouri.

Coaches are prohibited from paying their players cold, hard cash in accordance with NCAA extra-benefit rules.

One exception, however, is if the player happens to be a blood relative of the coach.

It’s definitely not against the letter of the law to give one’s own son a Christmas present or two.

“I can’t do anything for him, but his mother spoils him rotten,” KU coach Bill Self joked, asked by one of his “Hawk Talk” radio show callers if he can slip his son, KU sophomore guard Tyler Self, some money, and if assistant coach Norm Roberts, dad of senior Niko Roberts, can do the same for his son.

“There are advantages of having your son on the team,” Self added. “I do not expect Tyler to tell me anything going on with the guys. He cannot betray the locker room. What happens in the locker room stays in the locker room, or on the court. Same with Niko. They all handle that very well.

“Tyler has a unique way of telling me stuff without telling me, without coming out and saying whatever. Like, ‘We can do something to help so and so play better.’ Stuff like that when he knows that’s what needs to be done. He does a good job with that.”

Tulsa talk: Danny Manning’s second Tulsa team is off to a 4-8 start.

“They played a hard schedule to start out,” Self said. Tulsa has lost at Oklahoma, Missouri State, Creighton and TCU and against TCU and Green Bay in the Great Alaska Shootout. The Hurricane also lost to Wichita State and Oral Roberts at home, while beating Indiana State, Texas Southern, Grand Canyon and UA Little Rock.

“You lose one maybe you think you have a great chance to win, the others you are underdogs in. He’ll do fine. I’ve talked to Brett (Ballard, Tulsa assistant, former KU staff member). He says they are a lot better than last year (17-16). It’s a matter of time before they get it rolling. Danny will do a great job.

“It’s a great job,” former Tulsa coach Self added of the Golden Hurricane post. “For a first job, it’s unreal. My first job (at Oral Roberts), I lost 18 in a row. For Danny to get that first gig, that’s a great job. They’ve been a little down (as program). They’ve had a lot of coaches the last 15 years. Not a lot of coaches have stayed a long period of time. Tulsa is a great place to live. It’s a good situation.”

Reunion: Manning’s Golden Hurricane recently beat Grand Canyon, 66-65, in Tulsa. Grand Canyon, which led by nine points in the second half, is coached by Manning’s former 1988 U.S. Olympic teammate Dan Majerle, who also played with Manning on the Phoenix Suns.

Graduate, then transfer: Self does not like the controversial rule that allows a college basketball player to transfer and not have to sit out a year if that player has already received his undergraduate degree.

KU benefited from that rule when senior Tarik Black left Memphis for KU last summer.

“It’s one of the bad rules we have,” Self said. “If a kid is going to transfer, he should sit. Everybody sits across the board. Even in Tarik’s situation, he graduates in three years. If you want to go somewhere else and play, do so and allow the red-shirt (season) to happen. If you want to work on your masters, you get two years, which ensures the masters. I wish there was more an academic component to it.

“The way the rule reads, you can be eligible immediately as long as the institution offers something you don’t have at your previous institution. If you graduate in three years and have one left, sit a year, and that gives ’em an extra year. It’s the smartest thing from an academic standpoint.”

Black received his undergraduate degree in organizational leadership. Armed with that degree, Black left Memphis for KU last summer. He’s in the Masters program at KU.

Self said, in retrospect, he’s lucky that Black happens to be a top-notch person.

Self didn’t have a lot of time to get to know him during a quick recruiting process.

“You don’t know a kid until after his season is over. It’s April before he decides to leave,” Self said. “I went into his home for the first time at the end of April. You get to know a kid two to three weeks. You think you know what you are getting. Since he got here, Tarik has won everybody over. He is so smart and articulate and kind-hearted. He makes such a great first impression, you can’t help but respect him.”


Bryce Landon 7 years, 10 months ago

Organizational Leadership? Is that degree even worth the parchment it's printed on? Seriously, what are they teaching at U-of-M?

Elias Dunlavy 7 years, 10 months ago

Since this is such a young team he didn't have to wait very long to use the skills he learned with his organizational leadership degree. FYI a degree where you learn to manage people and learn excellent leadership skills will be an asset in whatever career field he chooses

Scott Burkhart 7 years, 10 months ago

Bryce, your comment is in poor taste. Congratulations to Tarik Black for achieving an undergraduate degree and pursuing a masters degree. Evidently the University of Kansas deemed it acceptable enough to admit him to their masters program.

Jonathan Allison 7 years, 9 months ago

Very true, and I don't care what the major. To earn a degree in 3 years while playing major Division 1 basketball is very impressive!

It's impressive even if he weren't playing basketball.

Titus Canby 7 years, 9 months ago

+1. How many of us received our degrees in 3 years? I was a good student, didn't play basketball, and still had to work my butt off just to finish in 4 1/2 years.

Jeremy Wilhelm 7 years, 9 months ago

Are you really serious Bryce? There is a whole entire program in the US Army basically dedicated to learning about, and instilling, this very concept. Two of them in fact: Command and General Staff College ( and Officer Candidate School ( Good leadership and organizational structure are also the primary characteristics that separate successful, and even visionary companies from the also-ran.

Suzi Marshall 7 years, 9 months ago

The Marshall Foundation ( provides leadership training, The Courage to Lead, for the military and industry. The training teaches his leadership principals which led the US to victory in WWII, development of Atomic Energy, formation of NATO, and eventually won the peace with the European Recovery Plan (Marshall Plan).

One of the principal lessons is to maintain a strong positive attitude in the face of adversity...think Pearl Harbor, D-Day, Guadalcanal, Berlin Crisis. Black is an excellent example of learning and implementing these critical leadership skills. Our country is in need for young men like Black.

Dirk Medema 7 years, 9 months ago

Bryce - Sometimes it is best to keep quiet and leave your intellect in doubt. Org Leadership is a degree program, and even graduate level program some serious academic institutions. Lots of credit to Tarik for being a sharp student & athlete.

Steve Williams 7 years, 9 months ago

+10000 Garbage degree. When i went to Ku all the players were either sociology, or african studies majors. Still remember sitting in soc class with cornish, langford and Cj giles breathing over my neck during tests.

Jonathan Allison 7 years, 10 months ago

From someone who works in an organization that values Organizational Leadership greatly, it sounds like a very good degree to have, especially if you aspire to work your way up the Org Chart. However, if your ambition is to be an NBA player, then it's probably just an easy way to stay eligible academically.

Robert Brock 7 years, 9 months ago

If Tulsa fires Manning, what is Danny's next move? There won't be a spot available on the KU staff.

Ludwig Supraphonic 7 years, 9 months ago

He will likely improve the program at Tulsa. Danny Manning will never have to worry about career options.

Dirk Medema 7 years, 9 months ago

Danny started in a non-coaching position for the first several years. Coach Self uses it generously for ex-coaches and post-grad assistants looking to get (back) into the profession.

Aaron Paisley 7 years, 9 months ago

Getting a degree in 3 years is impressive no matter what, but some things to consider are, how many college credits did he have upon graduation from high school? I've known people who graduated high school who already had 20+ college credits because of AP tests and such. This is also why Perry Ellis will in all likelihood have his bachelor's degree after 3 years at KU.

Another thing to consider is that Memphis isn't exactly the most highly thought of academic university, so what we're the classes Black actually took for his degree and how hard were those classes. In my school district, we had a required science class called Integrated Physics and Chemistry. Based on the name of the class, that sounds like it would be a really hard class, but it was the freshman science class and not very challenging at all. My point is that just because a class or degree has an impressive name, doesn't necessarily make it a challenging or helpful degree. I'm not going to the extreme Bryce is, but I would like to know more about what getting an Organizational Leadership degree from Memphis actually requires before calling it a great degree to have or a degree that's not very useful.

Robert Bookwalter 7 years, 9 months ago

It is simple enough to go to the U Memphis website and see the requirements for the degree. You'll see the number of credits and the names of the courses; but you won't know how rigorous the classes were. I still say that the degree is worth what the student makes of it.

Len Shaffer 7 years, 9 months ago

I love Self, but I completely disagree with him on his transfer comments. If someone is smart enough, hardworking enough and conscientious enough to earn a degree in three years, I think the least that he should be entitled to is the ability to transfer without having to sit out a year.

In fact, I'm not sure I agree with the transfer rule in general. Until there's a similar rule instituted that says coaches can't break their contracts without sitting out a year, players should have the right to transfer if they want to. I could see the requirement to sit out a year if they transferred within the same conference, but otherwise they should not have to sit out. And that's ESPECIALLY true if the coach who recruited them leaves the school. Although theoretically they are signing with the school, everyone knows that a HUGE factor is who they'll be playing for.

I have to confess that this is not exactly original thinking on my part. Someone else posted something very similar recently, and I completely agree. The main point is that there should be some equitability regarding coaches leaving their contracts, and thus leaving their school (and the players they recruited) high and dry, and players who want to go a different route.

Jonathan Allison 7 years, 9 months ago

I actually agree with the NCAA on the transfer rule.

The purpose of the transfer rule is to discourage students from transferring because transferring (especially multiple trasnfers) can make it more difficult for a student athlete to earn a degree before running out of eligibility.

The rule is intended to increase graduation rates of student athletes by 1.) keeping them at their original school, with their original counselors, and on their original degree path or by 2.) requiring them to take a redshirt year at their new institution so that they will have 5 years of eligibility, thus an extra year to finish their degree before they lose their eligibility/sholarship.

For that reason, students who have already earned a degree are free to transfer without penalty, however, Bill Self's point is that if they have already earned a degree and are enrolling in graduate classes, then why doesn't the NCAA care that they may not actually be on a path to a Masters' degree? Personally, I disagree with Self on this contention. I don't think that the NCAA ever intended to have students in graduate level programs, but had to allow for it because it would be unfair to students who graduate with athletic eligibility remaining.

As far as the argument about students who transfer within a conference. The NCAA doesn't differentiate based on where a student transfers from or to. However, some conferences have set up rules to discourage same-conference transfers. I disagree with giving stiffer penalties to students who transfer within a conference because I don't think that those rules are academic in nature.

Without the trasnfer penalty, I think that we would see far more transfers than already occur. I also think that there would be a striking increase in students who transfer multiple times and exhaust their eligibility without earning a degree.

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