Monday, December 9, 2013

Jayhawks drop out of top 10 in new AP poll

Kansas guard Andrew Wiggins, front, and Frank Mason leave the court following a game-winning three pointer by Colorado guard Askia Booker on Saturday, Dec. 7, 2013 at the Coors Events Center in Boulder, Colorado.

Kansas guard Andrew Wiggins, front, and Frank Mason leave the court following a game-winning three pointer by Colorado guard Askia Booker on Saturday, Dec. 7, 2013 at the Coors Events Center in Boulder, Colorado.


Kansas University’s men’s basketball team dropped out of the top 10, down to No. 13, in the latest AP Top 25, released Monday.

The Jayhawks (6-2), previously ranked No. 6, lost for the second time in three games Saturday at Colorado, where Askia Booker’s buzzer-beating three-pointer sent KU home with a 75-72 defeat.

Kansas moved to as high as No. 2 in the poll after beating Duke (7-2, now No. 8) in Chicago, on Nov. 12.

The latest AP poll, topped by new No. 1 Arizona (9-0), is occupied by both teams that beat the Jayhawks this season: No. 10 Villanova (9-0) and No. 21 Colorado (9-1).

KU plays at No. 19 Florida at 6 p.m. Tuesday night.

AP Top 25 — Week 6 (Dec. 9)

  1. Arizona, 9-0
  2. Syracuse, 9-0
  3. Ohio State, 8-0
  4. Wisconsin, 10-0
  5. Michigan State, 7-1
  6. Louisville, 8-1
  7. Oklahoma State, 8-1
  8. Duke, 7-2
  9. Connecticut, 9-0
  10. Villanova, 9-0
  11. Kentucky, 7-2
  12. Wichita State, 9-0
  13. Kansas, 6-2
  14. Baylor, 8-1
  15. Oregon, 8-0
  16. Memphis, 6-1
  17. Iowa State, 7-0
  18. North Carolina, 6-2
  19. Florida, 6-2
  20. Gonzaga, 8-1
  21. Colorado, 9-1
  22. Massachusetts, 8-0
  23. Iowa, 9-1
  24. Missouri, 9-0
  25. San Diego State, 7-1


Asad Zoberi 6 years, 7 months ago

I see drop in ranking for this young team at this time of the year as a positive:

  1. Take off some pressure
  2. Make them little humble
  3. Provide motivation to fight back up the ladder

Erin England 6 years, 7 months ago

I completely agree. I think we were ranked a little too high starting off.

Walter Bridges 6 years, 7 months ago

MU came back and soundly beat UCLA afler falling being down in the first half..could've been a GREAT day for MU sports.

Too bad : (

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 7 months ago

Yeah, but we really SHOULDN'T be ahead of Villanova and AT LEAST in one poll (looks like it must've been the Coaches' poll) we were much to my astonishment. Having said that Duke shouldn't be a full 6-7 spots ahead of us either.

Waylon Cook 6 years, 7 months ago

Something isn't right. But better now than to have the 3 game skid like last year.

Erich Hartmann 6 years, 7 months ago

I got no problem letting the kids' collective team psyche see us fall out of the top10. Maybe if we got RBDS vs Colo. we would have given ourselves 5-7 more possessions, and also limited the opponent by those 5-7 possessions (less opps for them), which is a 10-14 possession swing.

Funny how all the little things that Self figured out long ago, takes time to teach to each group of kids. Kids that could score at will in high school, simply cannot do that as easily anymore. ...And, if you turn it into a scoring trackmeet (like UNC-style), that doesnt work either, as what u gonna do when your shot's not falling? No, sir--> you dont see KU get handed 20+ point blowout losses under Self. Got to play D. Bother the other guy's offense. That is Self's ball. That is why we are "in" every game. So analytically, it really does come down to the little things. And that is truly the heart of the issue for most Self teams, because we all know it is NOT for lack of talent. Its all about what that "talent" is doing/not doing on the hardwood.

Parker's Duke been beat twice.

Wiggins/Selden's KU lost twice.

Harrisons'/Randle's KY lost twice.

NOW is the time to learn by getting shot down, not in March...

Rodney Crain 6 years, 7 months ago

Looks right to me. We might lose tomorrow night and drop again.

Walter Bridges 6 years, 7 months ago

Tonight could be ugly OR KU circles the wagon and lives up to the hype.

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 7 months ago

More likely somewhere in between....I'm thinking EITHER narrow loss or narrow win.

Joe Joseph 6 years, 7 months ago

I think this team is a better shooting team than it's displayed so far. It just hasn't figured out how to win when it doesn't shoot well, which is something that has also always taken time to develop. But also something that Self probably develops better than anyone else.

Andrew Horigan 6 years, 7 months ago

It sucks to lose both games by three pointers like that at the buzzer, but they are young and will be much tougher come conference time. This brutal early season schedule should get them ready for conference play.

John Randall 6 years, 7 months ago

Great lesson here – a team close enough will bite off your @$$ if you let them.

Mark Lindrud 6 years, 7 months ago

Colorado should've been ranked sooner. play Lucas, bench black. time to figure out the rotation

Robert Brown 6 years, 7 months ago

Before Wiggins this team was a projected Top 15-20 team which was probably inflated because we are Kansas. This is a completely new team and it is going to take some time for them to jell. Beating Duke, while great, probably did not help the development of this team. Some people were actually talking about an undefeated season.

A lot of people point to the UK championship in 2012 as a new model for winning championships. I tend to think that was more of an aberration. What UK experienced last year is more typical of what you would expect with a young and extremely talented team. UK this year has also had ups and downs.

I always felt bad for Wiggins. He seems like a humble kid, but the expectation were way too high for him. There is now way he can live up to those expectations.

I don't think the sky is falling because I trust Coach Self. I remember two years ago after we lost to Davidson wondering if we would finish 4th in the Big 12. That team made it to the championship game.

Benz Junque 6 years, 7 months ago

Beating Duke helped the development of the team just fine. It is important that they see that they can compete against anyone if they COMPETE. The only negative is that some FANS got unrealistic expectations. That has nothing to do with the development of the team.

I don't feel bad for Wiggins at all. He has chosen his path. He has the talent to be an elite player. Now he faces the difficult task that all players with elite talent face: can I make the jump mentally to be able to play to my talent level? His future and his performance are in his hands. That is a great spot to be.

He has dreams of being an NBA superstar. Do you really think that he will EVER have a time in his basketball life where there won't be unrealistic expectations? No, it is now part of his norm and has been for several years.

Cody Stumma 6 years, 7 months ago

Wichita State keeps winning yet drops a spot?

Beau Woolsey 6 years, 7 months ago

Selden could do everything frank can do he just isn't given the ball enough

Jack Wilson 6 years, 7 months ago

Except handle the ball like a point guard ... minor point.

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 7 months ago

Beau. Selden had ZERO assists in the game.

He was actually my biggest "goat" IN THAT GAME on Sat.

Honestly, I think the one who needs to be given more time and opportunities given the glowing, raving reviews Self had for him a month or two back is AW III. We've all thought that he could really shoot it....let's see it. I think he's more ready to D up and/or NOT turn it over at this point than Greene who would be the other choice.

Benz Junque 6 years, 7 months ago

Here's a great idea, why don't we all hope that Self sticks with the option that has the most ability --> SELDEN. Why are you guys trying to replace starters minutes with bench minutes? Are you seriously so bratty and impatient that you think guys have peaked out EIGHT GAMES into the season?

Do you understand how ridiculous that is? Hey, I hear that LeBron James had a bad game last week against Chicago. Maybe Spoelstra should start looking at who on the bench can give him more minutes...

Fans are trying to solve the problem NOW. They think there is one change that can be put in NOW that results in better results NOW. Wouldn't that be nice to have... Get real people. That's not how it works. It always seems like a simple solution from the keyboard, but I trust that the coach who actually coaches these kids will play the players that give us the best chance to win over the course of the season.

Self will need Selden and Wiggins and Embiid and Mason and Ellis to ALL improve moving forward for this team to reach their collective goals of a conference title and postseason success. If that means they lose a few non con games working on what they need to do to improve then so be it. The PROCESS is more important that the results.

Losses right now, especially this year, aren't going to do much damage to seeding. LOTS of good teams are going to roll into the tourney with several losses. We aren't dropping out of the Top 4 seeds. I really don't care if we get a #1 seed or a #4 seed. If Self can get his best players to develop to their potential they will be able to make a title run from any seed they end up with.

Kevin Huffman 6 years, 7 months ago

Can at least have a little Big XII pride in Baylor inching back up and ISU steadily climbing since the season started.

4 in the Top 17 out of a 10-team conference is reflecting well on the conference & UT & OU not doing too bad either.

Suzi Marshall 6 years, 7 months ago

Hey Keegan, shame on you for leaving WSU off your ballot.

Preston Dwiggins 6 years, 7 months ago

Since someone brought MU up, let me say this...I would rather lose to CO and have MU's bball team beat UCLA again than have their football team beat Auburn and be in the national title game.

Back to Hawk's bball. Taking a dip does nothing, but help our young squad realize this isn't high school anymore Todo. Time to bear down and play Kansas basketball. This will build character and hopefully getting the most our of our squad sooner than later. They needed to be hungry and if they weren't they should be now. RCJH!!!

Tony Bandle 6 years, 7 months ago

My congratulations to you all for your rational, logical posts...I, on the other hand, irrationally think not being in the Top Ten SUCKS!!! What Pi$$es me off is that the ranking is indeed earned and reasonable.

The Hawks better get their act together over these next five games and the Xmas break because conference play will be here soon and we had better be ready.

Also, I will bear the brunt of criticism and printed abuse with full knowledge of what I am about to say......I am beginning to see the possibility of this team never coming together in championship form and ending up a lower seed who will be gone afterr two rounds in March.

Lord God in Heaven, I hope I am dead wrong!!!!!!

Jack Wilson 6 years, 7 months ago

Oak -- Now, now. Have some faith, my friend. Time is on our side.

1] We have perhaps the best talent at the center position in the country (Embiid). That trajectory is upward.

2] We have perhaps the best talent at wing in the country (Wiggins). That trajectory is upward.

3] We have perhaps the best post scorer in the country (Ellis). That trajectory is upward.

4] We have perhaps the most surprising freshman in the country (Mason). That trajectory is upward.

5] And we have perhaps the best coach in the country. That trajectory is always upward.

Try this. Would you trade our team, right now, for any other team? 13 for 13 trade?

I didn't think so. Enjoy.

Rock Chalk.

Benz Junque 6 years, 7 months ago

Kansas has had teams that looked unstoppable in non-con lose in the first two rounds and teams that looked like CRAP in non-con make it to the Final Four. Any attempt to predict tourney success of a talented team based solely off of the first 8 games of the year is at best a coin flip.

I don't think many people are truly wrapping their brain around the fact that not only has Kansas NEVER played with this many new, young players but that they have NEVER played this hard of a non con schedule. And it is only going to get harder.

Normally by this time of year, Kansas has faced enough cream puffs that they blew out by 40 points that fans have more mental pictures of what the team will develop into. Even our cream puff games this year (La-Monroe, Iona and Towson) were aginst above average teams La-Monroe is 2-1, Iona is 5-2, Towson is 6-2 and Toledo is 8-0. Normally we have a few Alcorn States or other ding dong teams to get fans revved up about our top end potential. we simply have had NONE of those games.

There's a difference between excuses and reasons. There are reasons why Kansas doesn't look like a world beater yet. They are very young and very inexperienced and their few experienced players are not talented enough to be legitimate contributors.

There are even better reasons to believe that they will by the end of the year. Self has been able to meld every team he has had into contenders. This is his best collection of talent he has ever had and I do not see any type of "cancer" player on this team that might rot the core from the inside (ie. Harrison twins at UK).

Yes this non-con season is going to be a roller coaster with even higher highs and lower lows than we typically ever experience. But I have no reason to doubt that KU will be very much a contender to win it all come tourney time. How many more years in a row does Self have to prove to people that he knows what he is doing?!?

Armen Kurdian 6 years, 7 months ago

Gregg Marshall's philosophy is what I angry. Not hateful angry, but righteous angry, like the other team has no business being on the same court with you. I think it's just a lack of aggressiveness on our part, but that would be helped with some better open shooting beyond 13-14 ft. I wish we were playing a patsy tonight, because these guys need practice shooting threes and long jumpers.

Beau Woolsey 6 years, 7 months ago

People are sleeping on selden he gets the ball the least of the starters and he is probably our best driver because of his build.

On a side note

Did a Kansas fan sleep writ Jack Harry's mom, what's wrong with the guy.

Benz Junque 6 years, 7 months ago

The only way I can figure that this clown manages to keep his job is that he either has blackmail on his boss or his boss is a Mizzou grad. He is one of the worst sports anchors I have ever seen. His ridiculous opinions are completely based on delusions and ignorance.

Rodney Crain 6 years, 7 months ago

I was not aware Jack was still with us. Well I wish the poor old tiger and his nurse the best.

Thomas John 6 years, 7 months ago

And after the Florida game, maybe this team should not even be ranked. Too many turnovers tonite and acted like they have never seen a zone defense.

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