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Colorado defeats Kansas, 75-72

  • 2:15 p.m., Dec. 7, 2013
  • Coors Events Conference Center, Boulder, CO

Saturday, December 7, 2013

Rocky Mountain low: Jayhawks fall to Colorado, 75-72

Kansas guard Andrew Wiggins, front, and Frank Mason leave the court following a game-winning three pointer by Colorado guard Askia Booker on Saturday, Dec. 7, 2013 at the Coors Events Center in Boulder, Colorado.

Kansas guard Andrew Wiggins, front, and Frank Mason leave the court following a game-winning three pointer by Colorado guard Askia Booker on Saturday, Dec. 7, 2013 at the Coors Events Center in Boulder, Colorado.

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Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Bill Self after 75-72 loss at Colorado

Bill Self after 75-72 loss at Colorado

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Colorado 75, Kansas 72

Box score

— It took awhile, but Bill Self and his Kansas University Jayhawks have finally experienced the agony of defeat against Colorado.

“Every other time we played here, it was a home game for us for the most part,” Self, KU’s 11th-year basketball coach, said after KU’s 19-game winning streak against the Buffs came to a crashing halt, courtesy of a 30-foot three-pointer by Askia Booker at the buzzer — the difference-maker in a 75-72 setback to the Buffs (9-1) .

“That certainly wasn’t the case tonight.”

Not at all.

A sellout Coors Events Center crowd of 11,113 consisted of 90 percent — or more — fans of CU. In the past, when CU was a member of the Big 12 and Big Eight, the Jayhawks had up to 50 percent of the fans in the building.

This was the first time Self saw the CU’s fans storm the court after the shocking shot that gave KU (6-2) two losses in its last three games. Self had entered the day 18-0 versus CU.

“I’m concerned because we are not playing very well,” Self said. “I’m not concerned because I know it’s a marathon, not a sprint. We’ll go through this. The way the schedule is set up, it could happen again. We are playing good teams and playing them away from home. It certainly could happen again.”

KU, in fact, heads to Florida on Tuesday to play the Gators (6-2).

“We didn’t think we’d be a great team by Christmas,” Self said. “That’s being totally unrealistic. The preseason ratings ... they shouldn’t have had us there (at No. 5). We could play to that at the end. We couldn’t play to that now. There’s too much stuff to go over and learn and grow. I hate to lose, but if we can learn through losses, it’s not the worst thing. Once you get to January and February, you can’t lose if you want to win league. It’s all preparation for the second part of the season.”

He was bothered by the way KU lost this one.

First, KU tied the game at 72 on a driving layup by Perry Ellis with four seconds left.

“It was perfect. Pick and pop with their big guy guarding Perry and drive it. He made a good play,” Self said of Ellis (10 points, eight rebounds), who executed a play called in a timeout huddle. CU, which took the ball out 90 feet from the basket, wound up having enough time to bust the tie in regulation.

First, Landen Lucas deflected an in-bounds pass out of bounds, giving the Buffs 2.9 seconds to score. Xavier Johnson inbounded to Booker, who stormed past Frank Mason past halfcourt and launched about 30 feet from the goal. The shot swished, and fans streamed onto the court, celebrating CU’s first win versus KU in Boulder since 2003.

“I thought he (Booker) traveled,” Self said, when asked specifically if the 6-foot-2 junior guard walked with the ball. “I don’t know ... it may have been that ‘Euro big two-step’ deal. It doesn’t make any difference. We let him get ahead of us. You’ve got to make him catch in front of you. We got on the side. You can’t do that. It’s a little frustrating.

“Our philosophy is, make him catch it in front of you, switch all ball screens or handoffs, guard him, make him make a hard shot. In that particular situation, we (Mason) got on the side, he was able to clear himself where he had at least an open look. It wasn’t awful (defense). It was more a credit of him making a good play than it was bad defense. Still, I wish we could do it over again.”

It actually helped CU that Lucas busted up the first in-bounds attempt.

“We got a deflection the first time, which probably ended up being a blessing for them because instead of 3.0 in the dead corner, they get it to the free-throw line (extended) and 2.9 seconds. So it turned out a blessing for them. He made two good plays to end the half and the game.”

KU freshman Andrew Wiggins, who was fouled on a deep, straight-on three with KU down 71-68 with 12.8 ticks left, made two of the three free throws. Spencer Dinwiddie (15 points) hit one of two charities at 12.8, giving the Buffs a 72-70 lead, setting the scene for Ellis’ game-tying bucket and ultimately Booker’s heroics.

Wiggins was actually the last line of defense on the Booker three.

“It’s the last second. Of course he’s going to shoot the ball,” Wiggins said. “I didn’t know if he was going to make it or not.”

Wiggins finished with 22 points off 7-of-11 shooting, while Frank Mason had 11 and Ellis and Joel Embiid 10 each.

“We actually played well down the stretch. We didn’t get stops,” Self said. “We kept fouling (the Buffs hit 22 of 37 free throws to KU’s 13-of-20). I still think after the first 10 minutes, they controlled the game.”

KU led by as many as nine the first half (18-9 and 21-12) and trailed by as many as nine (53-44) the second half.

“We didn’t panic down the stretch, when it’s hard to communicate,” Self said. “We did some good things. We drove it. The thing that bothers me is, we gave them free points, and you can’t do that when you are trying to come back. We did a bad job getting back and keeping the guy in front of us.

“We’re not playing well at all. The pieces aren’t quite fitting yet. We’re trying to find ourselves. We’re not a real good shooting team. We’re not a real good passing team. We’re not a real physical team. Those are things we have to improve on big-time. I knew we’d labor. We could make up for that with energy and stealing extra possessions. We have become a team that is losing out on that battle too often. That was the case today, especially the first half.”

Next chance for improvement is 6 p.m. Tuesday in Gainesville, Fla.

Comments

Walter Bridges 5 years, 7 months ago

I am not going to say anything stupid...I am not going to say anything stupid...I am not going to say anything stupid...

Suzi Marshall 5 years, 7 months ago

This is a very frustrating team to watch. The excuse of "they are young" is wearing thin. After 8 games, it seems the lack of intensity, teamwork, effort, and desire seems to be the trademark of this team. When was the last time a Kansas team gave up 15 O-boards to our 8? The handwriting seems to be on the wall for this team....10 looses and a struggle to make the NCAA with a 6 seed.

Kye Clark 5 years, 7 months ago

In the post game comments it was "10 L's and a ticket to the NIT".

In the recap it's 10 "looses" and a 6 seed.

By the end of the weekend you'll have us in the final 4.

Suzi Marshall 5 years, 7 months ago

lol....I hope so! The line between a 6 seed in the NCAA and the NIT is very thin. I doubt we would ever make the tournament as anything lower than a 6.

Benz Junque 5 years, 7 months ago

Eh, no it isn't. It's about a five loss difference between a six seed and the NIT. Settle down.

Jack Jones 5 years, 7 months ago

Suzi ~ You better get used to hearing "they are young" ~ because that's exactly what they are and that's the way they are going to be for several weeks. Seven freshman and no returning starting players. It's called facing reality. No amount of gnashing the teeth or wishing or whining will change that ~ only time and experience. This is a team with enormous individual talent and the potential to become a really great TEAM ~ you do recall the Duke game I presume. And, while it will have absolutely no bearing on what kind of team they eventually will become ~ your sorry bad mouthing and brilliant prognostication is pathetic at best. (I assume you know how to spell losses)

Walter Bridges 5 years, 7 months ago

Tharpe played 20 min a game last year while Ellis logger 13. Ellis made the next big jump...Tharpe(?) not so much.

Dirk Medema 5 years, 7 months ago

Unfortunately, 8 games do not make anyone old or experienced.

They're sort of reminding me of Perry Ellis v.12-13. Early, he struggled to learn the game well enough to play instinctively/fast. By March though, he was an mvp.

Fortunately, it's a long year, and Coach is a master.

Suzi Marshall 5 years, 7 months ago

Jack and Kye.....It is a satiric misspelling for a rhetorical purpose.

I understand the team is young, talented and Self is a great coach to teach them how to play. At this point, I'd rather see the team making errors of aggression and having troubles finding justification for the lack of intensity which shows up in stats like the 50/50 balls and OREBs. We have seen how this team can play (Duke, Towson), I hope they can get back to that level and improve from there.

Benjamin Clay Jones 5 years, 7 months ago

Huh? What rhetorical purpose could that be, pray tell?

Tyson Ailshie 5 years, 7 months ago

This is a far cry from the team that toughed one out against Duke. I have to agree with the "we are young" excuse wearing a bit thin. This team has all the tools to be special to the history of the program, but seems to be downright squandering. I have to believe the ship will be righted before conference play. We do have the best coach in all of college basketball. But, this team needs to work harder in games. With tougher defense, rebounding and hustle, we would be unstoppable because scoring is obviously not a problem. Time for this team to start digging deep.

Rodney Crain 5 years, 7 months ago

Everything is fine, nothing to worry about, they are so young we will be fine. This was to be expected, everyone will be happy when we start to win in conference play. It's November, It's early December, just you wait. These are meaningless games. Self will coach them up over the holiday break, they are going to be great by the end of the year. We have the best coach in the world. When this team wakes up look out. We have so much talent we cannot fail, this is the best team in the country, we will cut down the nets. This is a final four team, go ahead and print up our 10th conf. championship banner in a row. They are young (needs to be said twice), they are only freshman, only 4 other D1 teams have less experience then we do out of 300 something. They will be fine we always are, give them time. We are playing great right now.

Did I miss any of them?

Kind of sounds silly when you put them altogether? At least it does to me, but I thought I would get these out of the way early since we know they are going to be said by someone here.

Jack Wilson 5 years, 7 months ago

Actually, this game came down to the same thing many games may come down to with this team ... three point shooting. It's something we're sorely lacking.

Greene, Frankamp, and White were a combined 0-5, each playing 4 minutes. Tharpe, Wiggins, Selden, and Mason -- they won't shoot 40% from three, right? But Greene, Frankamp, or White? That's their game.

This is not hard. Pick one, let them play about 15 minutes a game. Self admitted this past week that he does need to choose one. He admitted that he needs to only be playing five perimeter players. He said that neither of the three had separated from the other two.

But not choosing one hurts this team. Pick one. Play only one. Give him rotation minutes.

Again, I go straight to Bill Self admitting that they need to go with just one. His words. Why would Self think that he needs to settle on one guy?

Here's why, and Self knows this - the chosen one will get in the flow of the game, get reps, get confidence, adjust to the game situations, and be able to relax and hit shots. As of now, they pinball in and out getting a little sniff of game action, and are being expected to execute a very difficult skill ... the most difficult skill on the court.

Playing one and only one will give this team what it desperately needs. Seriously, what would be going through your mind playing? "Don't make a mistake, I'll get yanked." Shooters need to be able to shoot, and looking over their shoulder, and not being able to even be in the game for any substantial period, certainly diminishes the chance that they will be effective.

Of course I can't say for sure .. but I'm pretty darn confident in this speculation .. if one of those three players (Greene, Frankamp, White) had played the 12 minutes allotted to the three combined and shot the 5 three pointers that the combined three shot, he (anyone of the three) would have made at least one of the those three point attempts.

Interestingly, and simplistically, that was our margin of defeat. Heck, I bet if any of three would have taken five, they would have made at least two. Each of these guys are elite shooters. They are the only elite shooters on the team. As Self said, he needs to pick one, and play only one in the rotation.

Today we shot 5-20 from three point range. No ballroom with weird lighting to blame. Lots of things contribute to losses. But this facet of the game has a potential cure right there on the bench. All Self needs to do, as he said, is pick one.

Rodney Crain 5 years, 7 months ago

Agree. I would add taking an interest in getting our share of defensive rebounds. They got way to many 2nd and 3rd tries in at least 10 possessions, especially at turning points in the game where we had them stopped but did not finish at the rim. That is desire and coaching. To me anyone can rebound, this should be fixable too.

If they do not score on just 2 of those, we win the game. Without making a shot.

Kye Clark 5 years, 7 months ago

I agree with your assertion that our 3-point shooting is hurting us, but the more I watch Connor Frankamp, the more I wonder if he's destined to be the next Jeremy Case. The last of the Roy Williams' recruits that stayed on with Self and eventually got a championship ring in '08. He was always said to be the best shooter on the team...in practice. In games, he was pretty average.

Today, when Connor was in there, he seemed to be in the flow of the game. He was moving the ball around, seemed to be in the right places for the most part, and only took good shots. All three of his 3-point attempts were good looks in the rhythm of the offense. Not a one fell though.

Anyway, I would postulate that wasn't the biggest reason we lost today. Two other areas were glaring weaknesses that were far more to blame than poor outside shooting. First was rebounding. 15 O-boards given up is ridiculous. I don't know what the stats are for second chance points, but if we get the rebounding tightened up we win.

Second area is our offense against the zone. CU went zone and the team did what I've witnessed many Self teams do against a zone - pass it around the perimeter until settling for a 3 attempt. There was a three minute stretch in the first half where 5 of 6 shots we took were 3 point attempts (all misses). It seemed to take Embiid almost completely out of the game after he was dominant early. I had assumed that this wasn't going to be as much of a problem this year. Wiggins could drive & create his own shot, or create for others. After watching Mason's game I thought the same of him. Thought there was some of that in Selden. And while getting the ball into the post is often a difficulty associated with facing a zone, Perry's skill set is such that he can catch it away from the basket and get inside (as we saw on his game-tying lay-up). Yet for all this talent which would seem to lend itself to shredding a zone, it hasn't worked out that way.

Might be a really rough stretch if we can't pull it together for Florida. My prediction - it's a big game, and we get up for the big game, pulling out a narrow win.

Jack Wilson 5 years, 7 months ago

ict - Completely valid point on the offensive boards. Sometimes it's how the ball bounces. But again, excellent point. 15-8 margin on offensive boards in favor of CU. But let's assume we give up all of those offensive boards --- I think your second are of concern decided the game.

Your second area of concern from the game was our zone offense. If we shoot the ball, we don't have to worry about the zone offense.

Here are Tad Boyle's comments -- this is how KU will be attacked all season:

"We wanted to make them a jump-shooting team, whether we played them in man or zone,” Boyle said. “With the zone, it’s easier to keep the ball out of the post, and they’re such good post feeders and such good post players.” Boyle usually prefers to play man-to-man, but with Kansas shooting poorly from the outside so far this season, it made his decision to go outside his comfort zone an easy one. “I swallowed my pride when I went zone,” Boyle said. “If they would have made some shots against it in the first half early, I probably would have gotten out of it, because I’m not committed to it. But they didn’t. They struggled with it, and so we stayed with it.”

Tad Boyle said that if we would have "made some shots against" the zone, he would have gotten out of it.

It is that easy. Teams won't be able to play zone effectively if we hit shots.

Now, your analysis on how we failed to attack the zone is dead on. Our offense against the zone was stagnant. And that is a bigger issue.

Here's what Self said:

“We weren’t very good against the zone because we were nervous about getting in there and making a play,” KU coach Bill Self said. “They were letting two guys guard four guys, so we didn’t make them pay. Then it got late and we had to go make plays. That’s how you should be attacking it the whole time.”

He's exactly right. In fact, I thought we lacked consistent dribble penetration against a zone -- that's the best way to beat it. You have to attack the seams. Mason did this effectively a few times. That's what we need. And a focus on getting the ball to a big in the short corner. Ellis and Embiid pass well out of double teams. When the ball is in the short corner, cutters to the hoop are tough to stop.

But I go back to shooting. If we hit some shots, zone isn't an issue. If we're not going to hit shots, we have to attack the zone better as you suggest.

Kye Clark 5 years, 7 months ago

HEM - You're right, of course, that if you're nailing it from the outside the zone is either torched or it goes away.

I guess my point is that we have to attack the zone better via dribble penetration or interior passing because the bulk of our minutes go to players that aren't overly proficient outside shooters. Even if you gave all 15 of the sub minutes to one of the trio of Frankamp, AW3, or Greene, I would still argue that them shooting well is secondary. I say this because even if all those minutes go to one person, that player is still a small minority in terms of minutes played by perimeter players.

The other reason is that even giving those minutes to one player, you're not guaranteed a good shooting night. Even good shooters go 1-6, 2-8, etc. from beyond the arc. What then? You're already committing all your 5th perimeter sub minutes to one player, so your stuck with that poor shooting performance at least for the one game. But when you have so many other weapons and ways to attack the zone, you can eliminate the dependency on the outside shot, which is smart IMO because statistically the further you get away from the basket, the lower percentage the shot.

Evan Bilyeu 5 years, 7 months ago

Kansas needs to play fast ball against zone defense, they need to attack at them and pass a lot and not those stupid bunny passes because that creates turnovers. Frankamp has a lot of work to do but eventually it will pay off and he will be great, it might not be until his senior year but it will pay off. The rebounding was sickening. I think that White needs to play consistent minutes in the rotation, he has tremendous up-side. He is tall, muscular, more experienced, very hard working, and obviously can shoot. We all saw that Wiggins can score just about whenever he wants when he drives the ball, but that was a problem during Atlantis, he couldn't make the simple shots. When they all contribute and play at their best they are UNSTOPPABLE. They just need to learn to show it, embrace it, and play with hard work and confidence. This is just a road bump on the way to an amazing season, it will all get better just wait, RockChalkNation

Steve Zimmerman 5 years, 7 months ago

I agree 100% with what you said, Jack. I can't explain as much as you just did, though. This is a real problem with HCBS system. Those kids are capable shooters. Very good ones. It's so sad to see talents get wasted like that. They are guaranteed their spots if they pass side to side or make a perfect in-bound pass feeding the bigs. They get yanked for missing 1 or 2 shots or if they can't defend or if they commit 1 foul. This is so frustrating. We've got 12 deep & talented players in rotation. Most teams probably have 10 or so.

Benz Junque 5 years, 7 months ago

If Frankamp played 15 minutes last night, KU loses that game by 15. He was TORCHED on defense when he was in.

Greg Lux 5 years, 7 months ago

I have to also agree with picking one. But as we all know HCBS values defense over offense at this time of year. Energy wise I think Frankamp would win, but its close. If it was just offense Greene and White are about even at the top. But they all are looking over their shoulders scared to make a mistake and that does not breed confidence. What bothers me most is we are totally playing against the zone wrong. To beat a zone you penetrate, or get the ball to the Ellis at the key ( he can turn and shoot, drive or pass the ball to the wing ). The key to beating a zone is making it collapse opening up the wings or if it doesn't you score from 10 feet or inside with a wing driving to the basket. When I see us pass the ball around and around and around with not effort to do anything and see us get a shot clock violation I want to puke. This very talented team is scared to make a mistake and until HCBS makes a decision on the final rotation we are not likely to get the confidence we need to score.

Jack Wilson 5 years, 7 months ago

Benz: Oddly, I agree. CF isn't the answer. But in your crystal ball, what happens if Brannen Greene plays 15 minutes?

Benz Junque 5 years, 7 months ago

I don't know but it would have been worse. Greene has a nasty habit of trying to help on defense and leaving his man standing all alone on the perimeter for wide open threes. It happened numerous times in his limited minutes. Maybe if it was Selden he replaced it could have been an improvement because Selden was a no-show after the first few minutes.

This highlights my main problem with additional minutes for the bench "shooters" if you hit two more threes but you give up two more threes you are not benefiting the team in any way. And watching Frankamp clang bricks doesn't make me feel like we're missing anything (besides open jumpers).

Bryce Landon 5 years, 7 months ago

Congratulations to the Fluff-aloes; they get to be king for a day. I hope it feels good, because that's the closest to feeling like champions that their basketball program will ever be. But at the end of the day, all the CU fans will have to go back to their pathetic lives getting baked on the hippie lettuce.

RJ King 5 years, 7 months ago

Still waiting for the lack of anonymity to increase the maturity level of the posts.

Preston Dwiggins 5 years, 7 months ago

We need to tie Tarik's hands behind his back so we can see him in the second half of games as we will need him in conference play.

Adam Tyler 5 years, 7 months ago

Tarik Black needs to step his game up, immediately. He has done absolutely nothing, in any of the games we have played.

He started and played 3 minutes...

Id love to see more of Landon Lucas, especially if Black continues to play like this during the non-conference games.

Gerry Butler 5 years, 7 months ago

I sure hope unlike some people on here that we evaluate this team from the DUKE game, I think that game some people some false hopes, think oh damm what a great team we have, granted in time we are going to be a very good team but right now the TEAM needs lots, and lots, and lots of work PERIOD. you wanna blast away at me go ahead, but it is what it is. NU1. until we show we can knock down the outside shot on a fairly consistant basis we are gonna start seein ALOT of zone, we at this point can't hit the outside shot on a average basis AT ALL NU2. have to do MUCH MUCH better in the rebounding, blocking out, and getting to the 50/50 loose balls NU3. a little better TEAM CHEMISTRY, have seen some instances where guys are making not so good comments to one another, or expressions, exp Nadiar yesterday, Andrew yesterday, NU4 HUSTLE, HUSTLE, HUSTLE seen multiple times where different guys seemed to just be in cruise control getting back on the defensive end, Colorado beating us down the floor, exp multiple time Andrew jogging back down plus others not just Andrew and coincidently he was pulled out shortly after that.

Gerry Butler 5 years, 7 months ago

and lastly how many times are we gonna get beat from guys off the dribble drive? repeatedly time and time again getting smoked and no help defense, this RIGHT NOW is NOT a typical bill self team, ya , ya, ya come at me with what the hell they are so young, ya AND? are we gonna use that for an excuse for the year? when do we start to get older? can you honestly say you have seen improvement on the things I listed form the beginning of the year.time NOT to continue to make excuses, its time to stand up start takin strides to getting better,. have seen SOME flashes of how it could be, one for sure is if joel continues to iomprove like he is, he is gonna be a very dominant player very quickly, also gonna be gone very quickly, NBA bases a lot of their stock off potential and this guys ceiling is unlimited. so go ahead bask away if you want, again it is what it is, only before you open foot and insert mouth about my comments wanna say I'm just some bandwagon fan, think again, I've probably been a KU fan longer then a lot of you have been alive, I get really really upset when some people start bashing the hawks, maybe to much so. but I also am a realist, and right now we have LOTS OF WORK TO DO. Jayhawk for life

Tony Bandle 5 years, 7 months ago

OAKVILLE ODDITIES:

1] OUCH!! I think a piece of the sky just fell and hit me on the head!! :)

2] All of you are right....and wrong. From, "...this is the best team in America whose youth should be no excuse for this pathetic play" to "...this uber-young and talented team will undoubtly grow up to be a Final Four squad"...reality is somewhere in between. This team has the POTENTIAL to be great...but there are no guarantees.

3] C'mon...a 35 foot desperation buzzer beater and an off balance three pointer by a guy who hadn't hit anything all day is the difference between 8-0 and 6-2...everybody take a deep breath, please!!

4] I personally think this tough schedule is perfect for this season's squad..let them get smacked a few times in the face so they know what it feels like so you don't want to do it again...it worked on me with the Sisters of Notre Dame in grade school!!!

5] Spent last night surrounded by Mizzou fans watching their team's defense get ripped for about 1,000 yards of total offense!!!!!!!!!

Suzi Marshall 5 years, 7 months ago

5) That must have been fun and provide some relief. The combination of our game with Missouri's basketball win over UCLA followed by a win over Auburn would have made it one of the all time bad sport days for Jayhawks all over the world.

DaNeille Dani Davis 5 years, 7 months ago

What frustrates me most is that at the beginning of the season, the coaches and players talked about we were going to play fast and run. We did the first few games and we were winning. And now, we're playing slow, walking the ball up the court, not getting any fast breaks or transition baskets and not driving to the basket. Every team is doing that to us, especially in the past four games where we have not played well. They are driving and making baskets because you have to let them go or fouling and putting them on the line. I just don't understand why in the heck we are not doing that? We've got the players and all the tools to do that and we simply are playing scared. They are afraid of making a mistake and getting yanked and not playing with a free mind. Let them frickin play ball and run with it! This team is boring to watch and suck right now. I know BS is a great coach but they are playing not to foul and not to make a mistake and not playing for fun. Rock Chalk!

Benz Junque 5 years, 7 months ago

Because teams are dropping back into a zone quickly against us knowing they only have to send a few people to the offensive boards with as bad as KU is doing on the glass. They send two to get the ball and drop three to prevent the break. Believe it or not but professional coaches actually know how to game plan against different types of strengths.

Self isn't stopping anyone from running, the other team is. KU isn't playing scared, they're playing soft. The post players aren't getting good position on either end of the court. Ellis has taken a MAJOR step back in the last few weeks. He looks like a spectator out there. He isn't working to get in position where a guard can feed him a pass in good position to score. He isn't blocking anyone out on the glass. They are back to just trying to out jump the opponent for a rebound and that doesn't work past high school basketball.

Luca Rossi 5 years, 7 months ago

I'm with DaNeille on this one, there are so many times where they have numbers and don't run the fast break. That has been our bread and butter for so long and this team doesn't push it hard at all. They finally started doing it more towards the end of the game and it worked.

The team needs to run more, no doubt about it.

Tom Wilson 5 years, 7 months ago

The trip to Atlantis lowered my expectations for this season's Jayhawk basketball team. After this game, it is clear I did not set my expectations low enough.

Don Johnson 5 years, 7 months ago

People keep referring back to the Duke game. I think we were fortunate to play them early. As fans, we were all sitting around wondering what our group of freshmen were going to be like. We didn't know. The fact is, neither did coach K. By the time we got to the Bahamas, people had the chance to look at tape and observe out vulnerabilities so they could take advantage of them. Not only is this team young, they haven't played together for very long. We, and perhaps the players themselves, expect them to win on individual talent. That, is not KU basketball, and it is a great formula to lose games. Learning to play (Self)ishly will take time. I don't think we see what this team can really do until after the first of the year and maybe later than that. As has been pointed out, we are still just two threes away from 8-0. There is plenty for HCBS to work on and plenty to work with.

Jack Wilson 5 years, 7 months ago

A stat to digest: KU is shooting 29.8% from 3 point range. The only Big 12 team that is worse than KU from 3 point range? K-State, at 26.4%.

Against Villanova, we were 2-11 from three point range -- 18.2%.

Against Colorado, we were 5-20 from three point range -- 25%.

I understand a lot goes into winning and losing. Nothing is the sole cause.

But don't tell me that this specific area isn't the most significant reason for our two losses. If we shoot the ball a bit better from 3 point range in both games, say 33%, chances are very high we're sitting at 8-0 right now.

Bryce Landon 5 years, 7 months ago

And if we defend the opponents' 3's better, we are 8-0. Villanova was hot from the 3, and Colorado got key 3-pointers when they needed them.

Erin England 5 years, 7 months ago

While I agree that our 3-point shooting is severely lacking and that it would have helped us, I feel like the major reason for our losses begins with defense. Even if we could make it from 3-point range, it wouldn't do much good if our competitors are answering with a 3. This is where defense is important. And right now, I think our defense is okay at the post, but weak around the perimeter. Just look at all the the 3-point shots against KU, especially the buzzer beaters. There are many perimeter shots that were easily taken where our defense was under par.

Kristen Brown 5 years, 7 months ago

I guess my biggest issue is with the fans. I think if people would look back at the predictions in June and July everyone said this team would be a work in progress in the non-conference. We see this every year with our freshmen. Heck look at Perry last year. Struggles early and then clicks in March. We are one of the youngest teams, loaded with talent, but still made up of freshmen and we are playing the toughest schedule in America and somehow we are two Hail Mary three pointers away from being undefeated and the number one team in America. This team is scary good, because even when they don't get it they aren't getting blown out, they are making mental mistakes which eventually go away typically come the conference season. Some days I think they people on this site also are the same folks on Doomsday Preppers.

Preston Dwiggins 5 years, 7 months ago

I understand your sentiments Kristen. My fears aren't with where we are right now. My fears are that I don't see a leader on the court at this point.

Kristen Brown 5 years, 7 months ago

I understand that. But give it time. Frank I believe has everything needed to become the leader. He reminds me of Trey Burke. We have to put ourselves in his shoes. He was easily the lowest rated recruit from last year, including several fans on this site blasting Coach Self for signing him. So I believe he just needs the time to grow into that vocal leader. Perry doesn't have that personality and while Tharpe tries to do it and does a good job mentoring and coaching I believe Frank is the man who will be playing the most minutes and have the ball in his hands during crunch time. Hopefully Coach will stay with him starting and allow him to grown into that leader role so that by conference season when the games really count we are ready to go.

Kent Richardson 5 years, 7 months ago

I want to kill, I want to kill, I want to see dead burnt bodies. I want to have Tarik foul out in the first two minutes. I want to re-dress him in Connor's jersey and let him foul some more. I want to see Frank become Brick Mason (double entendre). I want our enemies to run out of sutures and duct tape. I want Travis Ford to crawl on his knees to the scorers table and beg Bill to call off the rabid mythical raptors because Marcus is smarting enough. I want to go down in flames and take as many with me as possible. I want Self to yell at me because I LIKE it. I want all our fouls to be flagrant until only our bench players and their bench players are left. If we can't make 3's you will not survive your attempt. It's only fair. Offensive rebounds will take on a new meaning.

I think Gators are wimps and must be extincted. (not sure that's a word)

Larry Jackson 5 years, 7 months ago

These "Baby J's" are going to be alright, Jay-hawk nation. All of you fans in panic mode need to back away from the edge of the ledge. We as a fan base are spoiled. We've become too accustomed to winning. Trust and believe Bill Self will have these kids performing extraordinarily. We've all witnessed Self perform miracles with much less talent. This season it is going to require time, and patience tho.. Relax and enjoy the ride.

Billy Smith 5 years, 7 months ago

Bill got outcoached. It doesn't happen very often, but it did. Flame me if you want. I'm sure Bill is frustrated but there isn't much you can do but wait it out. The best way to bust a zone is to make the 3 ball. We didn't do that. There were a few times Colorado sagged off Mason big time, daring him to shoot the 3 and he didn't. Colorado is no slouch. They have only lost 1 game so far. It will be interesting to see if they are ranked when the polls come out.

That being said, the sky is not falling. We still have one of, if not the best coach in the country. I wouldn't be shocked if we lose to Florida tomorrow. Billy Donavan would be stupid not to play zone against us. It will be up to the shooters to make them pay.

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