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Thursday, August 29, 2013

Frankamp picks up pointers from pros

Blue team guard Conner Frankamp looks to drive around Red team  guard Jeff Hawkins during a scrimmage on Wednesday, June 12, 2013 at the Horejsi Center.

Blue team guard Conner Frankamp looks to drive around Red team guard Jeff Hawkins during a scrimmage on Wednesday, June 12, 2013 at the Horejsi Center.

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Conner Frankamp, who hopes to be in the mix for playing time during his freshman year at Kansas University, certainly didn’t forget about basketball during a 31⁄2-week break between the end of summer school and Monday’s start of the 2013-14 school year.

“I worked out, shot as much as I could, tried to work on my game and work on my weaknesses,” said the 6-foot, 165-pound combo guard out of Wichita North. He entered the summer wanting to work on “defense, lateral quickness and staying in front of quick guards.”

Since reporting back to campus, he has tried to pick up pointers not only from his own teammates but also former Jayhawks, such as Aaron Miles, who plays for Krasnie Krilya in Russia but makes Lawrence his offseason home.

“Aaron Miles comes back and helps me out, talks to me. That’s a great help and great honor for me,” said Frankamp, who has also run the court with NBA Development League players Brady Morningstar and Mario Little and others who pass through town.

Coaches are allowed to work with the players two hours a week in accordance with NCAA rules. Boot Camp conditioning will run the week of Sept. 16, with the actual early start of the season Sept. 27. Late Night in the Phog is Oct. 4.

“It’s been really good. I feel the team is coming together,” Frankamp said. “We’re just doing individuals (workouts) and stuff right now. It’s like everybody is doing well and working really hard. We can’t wait. We’re itching to get out there and start playing as a team, getting competitive and all that,” added Frankamp, who averaged 31.1 points, 3.8 assists, 3.5 rebounds and 2.5 steals a game his senior year. He made 93 three-pointers, shot 49.2 percent from three-point range and 91.7 percent from the free-throw line.

Frankamp — he has been working out as both shooting guard and point guard — passed current KU teammate Perry Ellis as all-time leading scorer in Wichita City League history. Frankamp had 2,275 points to Ellis’ 2,231.

Adams update: Former KU guard Anrio Adams has left Ohio University’s basketball program. However, the sophomore-to-be’s dismissal is not because of legal problems.

Woub.org on Wednesday reported Adams was arrested on an assault charge on Aug. 20 in Seattle. On Thursday the public-media organization issued a correction, saying it was Adams’ father who was connected to the assault charge. The Athens Messenger reports it was Anrio Demetreous Adams Sr. who was arrested on Aug. 20, not his son.

“So was Adams dismissed or did he simply leave on his own? The answer likely lies somewhere in between the two extremes,” writes Jason Arkley of the Athens Messenger. “He wasn’t part of the program long enough to generate real roots, and may have simply realized he couldn’t handle sitting out an entire season (after leaving KU). There is an expected adjustment period any time a new face joins an established program; a roughly eight-week window (summer school) may not have been long enough to truly gauge whether the arrangement would work,” Arkley added.

Ohio immediately filled Adams’ roster spot by landing Khari Harley, out of Egg Harbor Township High (New Jersey), according to the Messenger. Harley had previously committed to Robinson Prep School, but now apparently is off to Ohio U.

Comments

Phil Leister 8 years, 1 month ago

Just encountered the first survey question asking me to type in an answer. I definitely gave it an honest answer and didn't give it an expletive laced response.

Inaccurate 8 years, 1 month ago

Same. I definitely don't use Ad[Block]Plus with google filters turned on. I love the surveys.

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

Me too.

But mine was a "Yes" or "No" question.

Bobby Burch 8 years, 1 month ago

I certainly give my honest opinion and comments, and never arbitrarily click or type random text. Never.

Bruce Dial 8 years, 1 month ago

Mine was yes or no, as well. I honestly answered I haven't searched for solutions to dry scalp or dandruff in the last six months. Hey, would you look at that? There's a light coat of snow on my couch!

Andy Godwin 8 years, 1 month ago

Team chemistry is essential and apparently Rio was not a good fit and why Self sent him packing. Having one disgruntled player can bring down an entire team and Self is big on character. You could tell from last year that Rio was in Self's doghouse for much of the season (e.g., Tyler got into some games before Rio). Rio is talented, but that is not always enough to succeed in a high profile program like KU.

Bruce Dial 8 years, 1 month ago

There's no way he's getting a second chance here. But, for the young man's sake (the junior), I hope he does land at some collegiate level and get an education, if nothing more. Then again, isn't that what collegiate sports are all about?

jaybate 8 years, 1 month ago

• Haven't seen Conner enough to say if he could play much as a freshman, but .910 FT shooting means he could be our shooter of technical fouls.

• Anrio, welcome to Not-As-Good-As-You-Thought-Ville. It's a tough town, where a lot of us live for awhile. The road out has a sign at a fork in the road. It reads: Find your true level of competition ville--left; Finished City--Right. It is times like this that a son needs a father most and it seems Anrio may not have one. Anrio, find a map, go home, get in a juco and work the problem. Academics can be gotten better at. Psychological problems can be managed. You have the tools, but you are going to need some help. Everyone does occasionally. Believe. Call Self. He probably wouldn't coach you, but he might find a way to get you some help.

• Speaking of formers, how is Zack Peters doing in hoops?

• The hype on Joel Embiid seems to have cooled some, after the Pitino amping. Has Self given any meaningful takes on Joel of late?

Ron Prichard 8 years, 1 month ago

Thanks for the link. After reading--or trying to decipher--that article it makes Keegan's random thoughts and disjointed articles seem smooth and collected. Wow...

Ann Oneill 8 years, 1 month ago

He must have gone to the Jaybate School of Journalism. What a train wreck!

Ron Franklin 8 years, 1 month ago

Wow, I thought Peters was hanging low. I guess he decided to swing around a see what else was out there. I thought the head of Peters had really caused him a setback, but apparently he just decided to extend himself to another opportunity.

jaybate 8 years, 1 month ago

Peters to Stumpy Miller?

This is like sending fine China to a greasy spoon.

How disappointing!

Stumpy likes to initiate XTReme Muscle. So: it looks like Zack will have plenty of chances to test how thorough his recovery is, when other teams retaliate in kind.

But more and more it feels like the reputed head injury was not at all what it seemed.

Who knows? Maybe Zack and Stumpy deserve each other, afterall.

Regardless, good luck, Zack, and remember to duck once the XTReme Ball starts.

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

I guess it's good to pick up some pointers, but I hope Conner doesn't get TOO much stuff in his head. It seems like he does what he does pretty well on his own.

Like 25 years ago when I went from being a self taught golfer who shot in the low 80's to someone who got lessons and advice from every Carl Spackler on the course and wound up twitching before every tee shot and eventually throwing all my clubs in the water.

dylans 8 years, 1 month ago

I hope Frankamps D is good enough that he can play significant minutes. His three point stroke would be a perfect compliment to Selden and Wiggins. Do you double the driver and leave a 49% three point threat open?

Hurry up first game. Oh yeah new tv policy, hope I get to watch the first game...

Reuben_J_Cogburn 8 years, 1 month ago

So college football started last night, games tonight, and we're on the eve of the first big day.

...and KUSports.com leads with a basketball article on the front page.

No wonder this fanbase has trouble getting pumped for football, and this university is the laughing stock of fall.

rockchalk_dpu 8 years, 1 month ago

Tait said in his chat the other day that the media hasn't had access since the end of camp, so that makes it tough to write stories. Most everything they can put out there now is a story full of recycled quotes or purely speculative opinion (Keegan), which doesn't tell me anything new and therefore isn't that interesting. The fact that we have a bye week to start the season also playes into this, since there isn't a "get to know your opponent" type article to be printed to go with the usual game week stuff. Patience Reuben.

In the meantime, there's a story on Scott Vestal that's new this morning...

John Boyle 8 years, 1 month ago

Nothing happening in the football scene right now as far as KU is concerned. They are a week away from playing. Basketball gets a lot more attention because they are among the elite in the nation not a bottom dweller in the Big 12. Besides, did you want them to write a story about the games from last night? Nobody cares about South Carolina, North Carolina, Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, USC, Hawaii, Fresno State or Rutgers football.

texashawk10 8 years, 1 month ago

Considering KU doesn't play this weekend and there has been no media access the past week, what do you expect.

Steve Gantz 8 years, 1 month ago

Sorry Ralster, forgive me, but I don't really care about KU football. I know some do, my bad.

Steve Gantz 8 years, 1 month ago

Well I admit I jumped on the bandwagon a few years back, and obviously, if they became a consistent force, it sure would be better than cracking jokes about them!

jaybate 8 years, 1 month ago

As of now it has Charlie and a fourth straight year of rebuilding : two with TG and entering two with CW and a bunch of jucos, plus $6.5 million compounding interest for TG in Lynchburg.

Never forget that $6.5 million and interest in Lynchburg. Its helping their economy, not Lawrence's.

So my mantra remains: Weis for five!

No more liquidity plays for other towns.

At $500k/house, some Lawrence bank could be lending out 120% of $6.5M to 15.6 young couples buying their first, or second, houses.

That would mean furnitures stores would be selling 15.6 more houses of furniture and carpet stores would be selling 15.6 more carpet orders.

A local appliance store would be selling 15.6 more washers and 15.6 more dryers.

A local lawn and garden would be selling 15.6 more Dixon ZTRs, 15.6 more string trimmers, and a whole bunch more fertilizer, round up and landscaping plants.

Local real estate agents would make 15.6 more commissions and local building inspectors would sell 15.6 more inspections.

Local insurance agents would sell 15.6 more fire and slip and fall policies.

The local K-Mart would sell 15.6 more strings of Christmas lights.

And then starts a steady stream of maintenance and repairs for 15.6 more houses.

And then starts the steady stream of medical, dental, optometry, and psychological office visits and related supply purchases for 15.6 additional households, to say nothing of breakfasts, lunches and dinners out of 15.6 additional households.

And then the additional grocery store and department store spending.

And of course the tax collector's office gets to collect taxes on 15.6 more houses.

You have to keep this multiplier effect in mind, when considering paying coaches to leave early. It vastly exceeds any losses in donations in a very short time.

And this all assumes only existing housing stock was being bought.

Assume new construction and sky's the limit. Everyone's Uncle Vinny the contractor gets to buy a new deck boat and Caddy. It just goes on and on.

Frankly, assuming the $6.5M were to have some from the bank account of a bucks up alum in Lawrence, were Turner Gill still the coach, Lawrence would now be in the midst of a mini-economic boom!!!

:-)

So: I'm for sticking with Coach Weis for five, if for no other reason that to keep Lawrence perking along.

And Coach Weis and Heaps could turn this puppy around in five seasons, though probably not two.

Robin Smith 8 years, 1 month ago

hey Reuben, I'm kind of ashamed of you...you see KU has this really fine Print Study Room at the Spencer Museum of Art, The Max Kade-Erich H. Markel Department of Graphic Arts, and you never give them any pub in your rantings. I mean, today is a Friday and you could easily be telling people that on Fridays the Print Study Room is open to walk-in visitation. You can go in and see great collections of Ukiyo-e prints, lithogrpahy, serigraphy, intaglio, woodcuts, photography, and more! You could go see in the flesh works by local legend Roger Shimomura or classic photos by Diane Arbus.

And you call yourself a fan of KU.

Reuben_J_Cogburn 8 years, 1 month ago

uh...good retort?

little obscure, but i guess it'll work.

SaltLakeHawk 8 years, 1 month ago

Actually, yes, it was a fantastic retort. The fact that the core message went over your head is not Robin's fault.

wrwlumpy 8 years, 1 month ago

If you click on football at the top, the lead story is football. Since you've clicked on basketball, you get a story from yesterday about basketball. no wonder we're the laughing stock when people come to the BBall side and looking for football.

clevelandjayhawker 8 years, 1 month ago

How much are you allowed to work with NBA/Euro guys? Seems like the ncaa has a limit on everything, this just seems like a situation where bad things could happen since you have super rich guys and guys who are not getting paid hanging out together.

Interested to see how our rotation breaks down, who red shirts and how much playing time guys get off the bench. Rock Chalk!

clevelandjayhawker 8 years, 1 month ago

Thanks. Just seemed like something that would be regualated.

baldwinbulldawg 8 years, 1 month ago

I'm sorry but enough about Anrio Adams already. He's gone lets move on... Please!

FearlessJayhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

Just give Conner the ball when teams throw up a zone and let him shoot.

bayareajhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

I am on campus a lot these days, and have run into Connor a few times this year. If I hadn't recognized his face from seeing it online so many times, I'd never give him a second look because body-wise he looks like a typical college freshman. He does not have the body you'd expect from a big time D-1 athlete. He is young and will have plenty of time with Hudy, but right now he would be absolutely devoured by someone like Marcus Smart. To compete with top college guards, he would have to have unbelievable quickness to make up for his current lack of size and strength, and I don't know that he has that. I'm glad he recognizes that, judging by the quotes in this article.

But seeing him in person has made me understand why he wasn't ranked as high in high school as we wanted him to be. If you look at him standing next to other D-1 players, you almost feel sorry for him. He looks like a member of the chess team, not the basketball team! Writers must have been worried about ranking him too high in case his game somehow didn't translate to college.

Seeing him in person has also made me wonder about red shirting him. I think he's going to be one of the great guards in KU history by the time he is done. I also think he is a four year player. I'd much rather have him at 23 than 18. Let him get Hudy-ized this year before unleashing him on unsuspecting defenses for the next four years.

cozzhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

Brady Morningstar didn't have much of a body either but he had a pretty good career.

bayareajhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

And how much did he play as a true freshman?

RJ King 8 years, 1 month ago

Brady is a good 3" taller and 20 lbs. heavier. He also came to KU after an additional year of prep school, so he was already 19, I think.

Ron Prichard 8 years, 1 month ago

"He is young and will have plenty of time with Hudy, but right now he would be absolutely devoured by someone like Marcus Smart."

Probably true, but that could also be said for 90% of all guards in college. Smart is a stud. But I don't think you'll see Frankamp guarding Smart. When we play OSU, I would think Smart would be guarded by either Selden or Wiggins, or possibly Tharpe, although I wouldn't like that matchup as much.

No one really matches up well with Smart, which is what makes him a potential lottery pick, but we have several options before we would have to use Frankamp on him.

Ryan Michael 8 years, 1 month ago

You do realize the criticisms you are leveling at Connor are the same ones everyone else has for the past couple years...

Yet this kid shows up to some of the largest camps, with some of the best talent in the country... And he dominates. You know what, keep on talking poorly about it, that seems to fuel his game. He seems to revel in proving people like you wrong...

He's one of the most exciting players I think we have coming in. I expect big things from him, and I'm stoked that he'll be a four year player because by the end he could be our all time 3 point leader (imho).

Joe Baker 8 years, 1 month ago

Good. If this board is a positively motivating factor, then let the criticism begin. You better read the quote my friend. No one on this board said it, except CF himself.

"He entered the summer wanting to work on “defense, lateral quickness and staying in front of quick guards.” Oh my...this doesn't read well in D1 play.

If he needs this board as a motivating factor to improve his game, then I'm really scared going forward. I guess Self could bring him in every other offensive series, then yank him during defense? You're right about one thing Ryan, he wil be a 4 yr project to get those unnatural feet moving laterally and playing D1 quality defense.

Ryan Michael 8 years, 1 month ago

The kid listed items he's working on and suddenly he's nowhere near D1 quality?

Grow up.

Joe Baker 8 years, 1 month ago

ralster- You're comparing CF to Page? Really? Not even a good comparison. Page was Ford's only go to pg. Page was OSU's pg by default. He had no choice. Fortunately, CF is on a loaded and talented KU roster. The quote is a very telling sign of his weaknesses. I hope he improves the lateral moves and the defensive skills, because that's what makes a D1 all-around player in the B12. I've seen guys like CF who can shoot lights out and then keep shooting, only to make an insane percentage. However, if he can't hold his own at this level on both ends, he's in for a long career at KU. Sorry love him and want nothing but the best, but not drinking all the Frankamp flavored kool-aide just yet. I think a great comparison would be Jeremy Case.

bayareajhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

I wasn't talking about his offense. Did you miss the part where I said I expect him to be one of the greatest guards ever at KU before he's done?

bayareajhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

Offense isn't the problem. And did you miss where I said I expect him to be one of the best guards we've ever had at KU before he's done?

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 1 month ago

Hey, I've been a Conner detractor, but ummm....ANY Div. I PG would get devoured by Marcus Smart and DID last year. Why when we play them I hope we have Selden guarding him!!!

bayareajhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

Did you guys miss the part where I said I expect him to be one of the greatest guards we've ever had at KU? I have no doubts whatsoever about his skills and shooting ability. I do have doubts that he is big and strong enough RIGHT NOW to play defense against the best guards D-1 has to offer. And if you don't play excellent defense in Bill Self's system, you don't play.

The reason I want him to redshirt is because I think he will be one of the best players we will ever have when he is 23. I think he'll have a hard time getting on the floor for Bill Self at 18. It has nothing to do with his skill and everything to do with XTreme Muscle Ball (copyright: Jaybate) and Bill Self's insistence on great defense. Not only would Connor get devoured by Smart, but he would probably get easily backed down in the post by 80% the starting guards in the Top-25. That's not going to fly for Bill. If Connor plays this year, I doubt he will get much time and it will be (to me) a wasted year when you consider what he will be able to do in four years.

SaltLakeHawk 8 years, 1 month ago

"Looks like a member of the chess team"

"Unnatural feet"

"Scrappy"

"Gym rat"

"Smart"

"X-axis potential" (i.e., no jumping)

"Disciplined"

"Highly-coachable"

"6-foot version of Larry Bird"

"Unathletic"

"Another Boschee"

These are direct quotes from this message board. People.... just come out and say it: you're concerned (like me) because Mr. Frankamp (like me) is WHITE.

There. I said it.

I truly find it hilarious when people delicately dance around their (completely natural) prejudice against white basketball players. People just can't bring themselves to say it: "he's white." Instead, they use the euphemisms like the ones listed above. I'm calling it right now: with a white stud like CF on the squad, prepare for the usage of these euphemisms to SKYROCKET during broadcasts over the next 4 years.

Since the "Withey was a volleyball player" drinking game has been retired, I propose a new drinking game: the "Conner Frankamp white-guy euphemism" drinking game.

_

PS: call me a racist, and I'll call you an idiot.

jaybate 8 years, 1 month ago

SLH,

Part 1

Racism is insidious and twisted.

African Americans have had to work their butts off to become good at vocations that would permit them entry. It has always overconcentrated their numbers much the same way that WASPs have been over concentrated in life insurance, and Jews have been overconcentrated in Hollywood. The overconcentration feeds into the prejudices of people, especially those that aren't quite good enough to beat the numbers. Everyone forgets about how many non WASPs there are in insurance and how many nonJews there are in Hollywood.

But back to African Americans--once they have mastered the vocations, then they have found their success being attributed (often by Caucasian Americans, but sometimes by African Americans too) not to hard work, but to being African Americans that can jump, that have been selected for strength and endurance and later bread into physical supermen as slaves; that sort of shizz. Its the kind of logic that make some flimsy sense in the abstract until one walks around in an African American neighborhood, and plays on one of the playgrounds in that neighborhood, and sees just how many non supermen one finds there. African Americans, or should I say, African-Canadians as in Andrew Wiggins case, just aren't curling much these days, so you don't see them getting defined in curling terms. Similarly, you don't see Caucasian Americans curling in big numbers either. So you don't see alot of great white American hopes in curling either. Caucasian-Canadians, though, now they are bitchin' curlers. :-)

Caucasian Americans experience a similar twsited phenomenon, when they enter as minorities in vocations like basketball that African Americans have grown to dominate with hard work and large numbers trying. Caucasian-Americans and African-Americans look at them and ignore their hard work and talent that got them entry and say instead that the Caucasian American kid probably won't be very good because he is white. Note: in the bad old days, when African Americans were the minority breaking in, it was said that well, yeah, the kid had a great shot, but he was black and so he wasn't really good at all the fundies, and, oh, he would lose his composure whenever things got tough...shizz like that.

Its all about the eye test with too many simple thinkers.

SaltLakeHawk 8 years, 1 month ago

You're right, it's simple thinking. But it exists. It's existence is what I'm pointing out. And the code words are funny to me. That's my thesis.

jaybate 8 years, 1 month ago

Part 2

The common thread in both cases, of course, is denial of hard work non race dependent physical abiliity, as the key drivers of excellence.

I've got news of racists: Shaquille O'Neal was not a dominant center because of what a great leaper he was. And Tiny Gallon wasn't an average center, because of what a great leaper he was. Both guys were big as the sides of houses. They could bring serious X-axis game in the trench. Shaq Father could just bring a whole lot more for 40 minutes. It wasn't about the racial.

One of the things I like about dragonslayr's recognition of X-axis dependent play at certain positions like point guard, and center, is that it unloads some of the racism from some of the analysis. It makes clear that African Americans have to work at X-axis play just as hard as Caucasian Americans do and that who ever works the hardest and masters it the most gets to play, even though hops can be a tie breaker.

Most of the time, the Z-axis (what I use to refer to jumping) doesn't matter as much at PG as X-axis play, though again, Z-axis capability can be a tie breaker.

I do agree with you that there are a lot of code words among African-Americans and Caucasian Americans about anything to do with race. And why shouldn't there be? Its is language evolved over a 4 century span of serious dysfunction and man's inhumanity to man. How could there not be a lot of code? Hell, I speak a lot of code when I talk to cop the same race as I am, because he has the legacy of the gun and the club and now the taser and god only knows what else.

Having said all that, though, I have to say that if a freshman African-American basketball player with Conner Frankamp's short height, and slight weight and great shot came along, I would be wondering all the same things about the African American kid that I am wondering about Conner, even if I figure the odds would be the African American kid could probably get up better. I would be asking: Could he handle the banging? Could he get his shot off without having to move 3-5 feet farther out than he used to shoot from in high school. Is his sneaky quickness going to translate to D1 quickness. And finally, how can we get this African American kid with the awesome long range gun into the game as many minutes as possible despite his vermicelli limitations?

jaybate 8 years, 1 month ago

Part 3

FWIW, I doubted Allen Iverson his first season at Georgetown, and then again through his second season in the L.

I am not saying Conner is in AI's class as a player. I am just saying I am a proof in pudding kind of a guy about short, skinny point guards no matter what color they are.

I had a devil of a time believing Nate Archibald could become as good as he became in the NBA.

I think if I had thought more about the X-Axis aspects of the point guard position, and less about size (or shot, or hops for that matter), as Slayr has persuaded me to do, then I think I would have been onto Tiny Archibald sooner, maybe all the way back to UTEP. Don Haskins saw it. So did Bill Fitch and Larry Bird. Tiny could certainly get up. But if I really think back to his game it was what was going on in the X-Axis that made him stand out and with Larry Bird lead a Celtic team to a ring.

Go, Conner, go!

Forget the flipping eye tests.

RJ King 8 years, 1 month ago

One of your best posts. Long, but to the point (smile).

Color me naive, but I thought the discussion was about Connor being short.

BTW, there is an excellent HBO documentary on Marty Glickman. If you have not already seen, I am certain you would enjoy.

RJ King 8 years, 1 month ago

SLH: What he said. (Jaybate).

Jaybate took the time to perfectly explain my thoughts.

For me, the discussion is about Connor being SHORT. Period.

Please don't address me in your group of "people." I never thought about race until YOU brought it up.

SaltLakeHawk 8 years, 1 month ago

Duly noted: bayhawkaholic, like Stephen Colbert, doesn't see race, ever. I'm assuming bayhawkaholic never farts either, or even has an anus for that matter.

Please forgive me, i am obviously an inferior and evil human being cursed with the ability of pattern recognition.

I'm also cursed with a sense of humor. I will continue laughing at white people code words in sports, because... it's funny to me.

Hey, Jaybate said "sneaky quick"..... DRINK!!!!

jaybate 8 years, 1 month ago

SLH,

I didn't mean disrespect to you and I agreed there is lots of code.

Re: sneaky quick, I was alluding to Bill Self's use of "sneaky quick" and meaning I would react the same way to the same phrase applied to an African American of CF's slight build.

Regarding Tharpe, I really fretted over his lack of size and rather short legs and still will until I see him carry the mail defensively without Releford, Ben and Withey around to help him. It will be late in the season before Selden, Wiggins, and Black are going to provide him comparable defensive help. Tharpe is going to have to be a lot better defensively than he was even at the end of last season to make up for the lack of help. Likely as not, Self has talked about playing zone to get Tharpe some help early on by scheming it.

bayareajhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

My points have everything to do with Connor's lack of height and weight, and nothing to do with his lack of melanin. Sorry, SLH.

SaltLakeHawk 8 years, 1 month ago

So where are your concerns about Tharpe? He's the same height and weight as Frankamp.

bayareajhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

As I said below, Tharpe is much stronger than Frankamp and it is evident when you see them in person. Connor is a twig right now. That is what worries me.

SaltLakeHawk 8 years, 1 month ago

How do you know "Tharpe is much stronger than Frankamp" ??? Do you have quantitative facts to back up that statement? I doubt it. More likely, you're just going off THE EYE TEST. Hmmm....

Jack Wilson 8 years, 1 month ago

How does Frankamp get in the rotation this season?

It's hard to imagine it if he is not the back up point guard.

Self's four man rotation last season was EJ, Tharpe, McLemore, and Releford. Tharpe being the back up point guard. You have to have that.

The three guys that appear to be rotation locks this season are Tharpe, Selden, and Wiggins.

Regardless, the next guy has to be the back-up point guard. And the back-up point guard has to be able to handle the ball well enough to be the primary ball handler. It's a job requirement. That leaves only Mason or Frankamp.

So if Mason takes that spot, the only way Frankamp is in the rotation is if two things happen: 1) Self goes with a five man perimeter rotation instead of a four man rotation, and 2) Frankamp beats out both White and Greene for that 5th rotation spot.

Looks to me like he has to win the back-up point guard role.

clevelandjayhawker 8 years, 1 month ago

I think Self will expand to a 9 or 10 man rotation, he may not, but I'm hoping he does.

Evan Bilyeu 8 years, 1 month ago

We aren't having a freshman starting point guard if that's what you are trying to say....

SaltLakeHawk 8 years, 1 month ago

The point guard position is wide open? Are you serious? Tharpe starts this year at PG. Period. For many reasons. Shall we go over them?

-Tharpe has BY FAR the most experience and meaningful minutes in Self's system...not just compared to other guards, but compared to anyone else on this entire, scarily-young team

-He's a PG. That position especially requires experience.

-Our coach puts a HUGE premium on experience over raw talent (case in point: Morningstar over EJ, 2011).

-Tharpe is no slouch: he's a damn good point guard who came to KU with all the unteachable raw abilities that great PG's have (speed, quickness, passing, court vision, handles, leadership qualities).

BUT.... Self has been very high on Frank Mason in recent interviews. He's even stated that Mason might start over Tharpe. Why is that? 3 possible reasons:

A) Mason was ASTRONOMICALLY underrated in high school. Turns out he's a Derek Rose type of talent.

B) Over the summer, Tharpe forgot how to play basketball and ate nothing but cheeseburgers and beer at the Wheel. Tharpe now sucks at basketball.

C) Realizing how critical Tharpe is to this team's success, MMAMGHCBS (Master Motivator And Media Genius, Head Coach Bill Self) is trying to motivate Tharpe into staying hungry and competitive.

The answer is obviously C. We've seen this trick from Self countless times. I think Self has fooled you. And I sincerely HOPE he's fooled Tharpe.

SaltLakeHawk 8 years, 1 month ago

Why couldn't Tharpe displace EJ? Because EJ had much more EXPERIENCE than Tharpe. Hmmm..... see the pattern?

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 1 month ago

Hmmm...ummm, I don't think of him as our backup PG...well, hardly EVER in his entire tenure with us....maybe in an emergency. FAR more likely would envision F. Mason as backup PG during his time with us.

I see him in more of the Boschee role as starting SG (if not a more talented player out there) but most likely No. 3 G and best as backup SG.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 1 month ago

I don't disagree that we might see 5 perimeter players in the rotation. But Self loves giving minutes to who he perceives as his best players. He doesn't give many minutes out for experience sake.

And I am assuming that Tharpe starts (Kingfisher), but I am not assuming that he is the de facto starter. There is a difference. Self starting a freshman over a junior is a big leap, particularly when the freshman is not a top 20 guy. And the junior was a rotation guy the year before. Tell me when a non-top 20 guy has displaced an upper classman under Self? Many were saying, including me, that Ellis would start over KY. EJ never displaced Reed or Brady. Mason is appx. the #80 player -- if he were a top 20ish guy, sure.. Iit isn't crazy to think Mason might win the job .. but it sure is a long shot. If he beats out Tharpe, there will be a few here that predicted it. I'm not one.

SaltLakeHawk 8 years, 1 month ago

That's not a great comparison.

Rush > Mason

Tharpe > R. Stewart

Jack Wilson 8 years, 1 month ago

Rush was a top 20 player in any case, right? I was more looking at a non-top 20 guy displacing an upper classman. Mason isn't even top 50. Just seems a remote chance that Tharpe plays behind Mason.

Joe Baker 8 years, 1 month ago

Thank you HEM. You just supplemented my above point. Especially with my comparison to Case. CF and Case were on very similar KU teams that were equally talented. Case was a phenom player, but didn't get much pt.

otaKU 8 years, 1 month ago

You act as if he's never played against bigger talented athletes. He played AAU ball and competed against some of these guys before. He played international ball and when up in practice against some of these guys before. Give the kid a chance before writing him off for THIS year.

Chase Topliff 8 years, 1 month ago

Agreed. The kid played for Team USA (can't remember which age group) with the likes of #2 ranked Jabari Parker and a couple other high profile recruits. Guess who led the team in scoring??? Yeah, Frankhamp.

justanotherfan 8 years, 1 month ago

The difference is that in AAU and international competition, he played against guys that were his age (i.e. 17, 18, 19). In college, he will be facing guys that are just as talented (or more talented) than those players, but also 2-3 years older (more mature, stronger, etc.). That makes a huge difference.

I'm not writing Conner off for this year because I think his shooting will allow him to contribute - I envision a couple of games this season where he hits 4 or 5 threes to jumpstart the offense. But I also think there will be times where he will struggle with the size and strength of bigger, stronger, older players. I think a full season in the weight room will make him that much better as a sophomore and beyond when he's probably averaging double figures because he's such a great shooter.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 1 month ago

For all the hesitation to give Conner the benefit of the doubt, have any of you naysayers ever actually seen the Frankampbomber play???

Well, I have... and this kid is "UNREAL FOR REAL". I predict Conner will be the surprise for the Hawks this season. He will be Boche with better ball-handling. He'll be Hienrich with better range. he'll be Teahan with better defense.

Call me crazy, call me dillusional, call me nuts, just don't forget to call me to dinner!!

justanotherfan 8 years, 1 month ago

I think Frankamp will play this year, but I also think that it will be mostly with some of the other bigger lineups. Frankamp is a tremendous shooter, and great shooters will always have a place in the lineup. However, his size could make him a defensive liability because he probably won't be able to do much in the way of rebounding or switching. I also worry about his size because he could take a serious pounding this year from bigger, stronger college players, which could affect his ability to get open and get off quality shots.

I do think he can be a great zone buster if he is on the floor with Selden and a guy like White or Greene while using Wiggins and Perry (both very good passers) at the 4 and 5. All of those guys can create space, handle the ball, pass and shoot, which would cripple a zone, as you can't cover all of the creases when you have to stay connected to a shooter like Frankamp.

I still think he is the freshman that may get the least minutes this year, but he could also be the one that leaves with the gaudiest career numbers.

Mark Lindrud 8 years, 1 month ago

All I've seen and heard from Connor is discipline. He's a quality kid determined to accomplish his goals and get better. He's announced that he will work hard to strengthen his weaknesses and he's been doing stuff like that as a kid growing up. He's one of the few players I'm not doubting to play because he's hungry and focused. He's not an athletic freak, but I've seen him shoot and that skill alone can get him some quality minutes.

This is a kid I'm not betting against to be on the court because he's highly coachable and will be a pleasure to watch for the next four years.

Dee Shaw 8 years, 1 month ago

Who cares about Anrio Adams. He is no longer a Jayhawk. Move on.

TexiCaliHawk 8 years, 1 month ago

Of course, size and athleticism are important for all the reasons previously stated; however, there have been plenty of smaller framed PGs or SGs who have leveraged their key strengths -- whether it be lightening quickness and hops (Alan Iverson), Basketball I.Q. and 'Dime'-making ability (Doug Gottlieb), or dead-eye marksmanship from 'Trey'-ville (Jeff Boschee).

More recently, you can look at Keiton Page and Rotnei Clark as pretty salty players who have played much 'bigger' than their size/athleticism by stretching the defense with their shooting range. Plus, having a PG or SG who is 'money' from the FT line -- especially in a close game down the stretch -- is indeed priceless.

Ask Oakville says and I agree -- Connor has GAME and his body will continue to mature with the help of Hudy, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt at this point. Now, whether that means he contributes greatly this year, or next year and beyond, is open for debate. However, I love his attitude and acknowledgment of his 'weaknesses' as THAT is how one gets better as a player, as a teammate and as a person.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 1 month ago

Ummm, would seem to me that EVEN the detractors are NOT saying he'll amount to nothing. They're just saying - don't look for him to be a PG, ESPECIALLY not this year and maybe not even next year AND don't expect huge things from him THIS season.

Don't forget that for MOST of last season most of us were all pretty disappointed in Perry who was much more highly thought of than Conner this season coming into last season.

It was only when he turned it on the last few weeks that we became encouraged.

Chase Topliff 8 years, 1 month ago

Tyler Reed had a pretty good career at KU.

By the time Frankhamp is done, he will, by far, surpass Reed.

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

I hope you're right, Western.

But in football, I watched Jake Sharp play all through High School and I honestly thought he would be the next Gale Sayers. You know what I mean. The guy was truly unbelievable.

You just don't know what's going to happen down the road.

Steve Gantz 8 years, 1 month ago

There will never be another Gale Sayers!

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

See the part where it says " You know what I mean " !!

RJ King 8 years, 1 month ago

Reed listed at 6'3" and 25 lbs. heavier. Frankamp looks to stay around 6'. You may be right about the scoring, but they are two very different players.

Evan Bilyeu 8 years, 1 month ago

He was just saying overall, he wasn't saying they are EXACTLY the same.. They both could drop dimes.

RJ King 8 years, 1 month ago

I don't think assists are so much a concern. I think the question is mostly regarding Frankamp's potential for scoring, defending and ball handling against much larger (literally) competition.

SaltLakeHawk 8 years, 1 month ago

"Tyler" apparently didn't have a good enough career at KU for you to remember his name.

cozzhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

I'm gonna go ahead and tell CF that he may as well just go ahead and shave his head now...

VaJay 8 years, 1 month ago

I'm not ready yet for another Boschee!

Doug Cramer 8 years, 1 month ago

Wait a minute...so Zach Peters is at Arizona ? What the heck ?

Steve Gantz 8 years, 1 month ago

I like to think of Connor as a white version of Jeff Boschee.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 1 month ago

lmao...ummm, Boschee wasn't / isn't white?! Is he like Derek Jeter (mixed parentage or something)?

Ron Prichard 8 years, 1 month ago

I like to think of Connor like he's the lead singer for Lynnard Skynnard, but the band is like the rest of the KU team, and I'm in the front row at Allen Fieldhouse, and I'm like hammered drunk!

jaybate 8 years, 1 month ago

wissox,

PHOF!!!

Maybe the funniest one liner of all time on the board that I have read.

It took me quite awhile to recover enough to type.

FarSideHawk 8 years, 1 month ago

Just had a blasphemous thought, due to all this 8man rotation discussions... What could Roy do with this team: he would certainly create some beautiful and fast basketball and get all 12 players on the court. But they most likely wont maximize their defensive potential.

So the question is: whose style of basketball suits this type of talent and depth better? Roy or Bill?

jaybate 8 years, 1 month ago

It suits Bill better and Bill will get more Ws, but...

You have had an inspired thought. Roy probably use ten men and average 90 ppg. It would be beautiful to watch.

But Bill's final rotation will be better prepared to play it every which way they want it and so cut the heart out of more kinds of teams.

RJ King 8 years, 1 month ago

Remember what a nest of gnats Missouri's guards were for Withey? Maybe CF's lack of size could actually be a useful weapon in certain situations - rendering a big or two ineffective.

bayareajhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

My work computer is screwing up so I am left to respond with my phone. I think you guys missed the part where I said I expect Connor to be one of the all-time greats at KU by the time he is done. In your haste to be snarky, maybe you didn't take the time to actually understand what I was saying.

His offensive prowess is not in question. But this is a Bill Self team. If you don't play excellent defense, you don't play at all.I want that kid on the floor as much as possible while he is eligible, and I think he will see the floor a lot more after a few years of growing.

I have never been as excited about a recruit as I have been about Connor for the past 3 years. I'm just telling you that standing next to him was eye-opening.

And btw, Tharpe looks about 3x as strong as the White Mamba right now. I see them on campus all the time. Their listed measurements may be similar but Tharpe is strong and Connor is a toothpick. The difference is striking when you stand right next to them.

bayareajhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

Aargh! Sorry for the multiple posts. I'm having technology issues...

Tony Bandle 8 years, 1 month ago

If Conner can survive the scrimmages within his own team, he'll be just fine against any of our opponents.

Can you guys just imagine what those battles are going to be like??!!!

Wiggins, Ellis, Black, Selden, Embied could, potentially, all be in the NBA this time next year.

Lucas, Mickelson and Traylor bring tons of brawn to the court.

Greene, Conner, Tharpe, White and Mason bring a tons of potential.

The match-ups are awesome; Wiggins vs Selden, Traylor vs. Ellis, Black vs Embied, Tharpe vs. Mason, Lucas vs. Mikkelson, Greene vs.Frankamp!!!!

mikehawk 8 years, 1 month ago

It you can consistently nail the rock from deep under pressure at high percentage, there is a place for you my friend. AWIII couldn't do it coming off the bench out of rhythm on a consistent basis last year, If he could have done so, he would have seen the floor much more often. It will be the same for CF.

The deep ball opens things up like nothing else. If you don't have to respect it, pack it in. While this doesn't hinder us against average teams, it can send you home early against good teams. Also, the deep ball after giving one or more up can stop a run as good as any time out. I may eat my words, but I think this team has a chance to be one of the best 3 point teams in recent history. If so, the slashers, Wiggins and Selden, will have a field day.

justanotherfan 8 years, 1 month ago

It must have been missed when I was discussing the rotation earlier this summer and I assumed Mason would be the odd man out. I simply don't think the trio of Tharpe, Frankamp and Mason can all be in the rotation at the same time because they are all so small.

Tharpe is going to start, so the competition is between Conner and Frank. Because all three of those guys are sub 6 foot, I doubt we see them play together much, which means they will back each other up, meaning there won't be many minutes for one of the three.

Early on, I figured that would be Mason. He's a small slasher and those guys typically have the toughest time moving from HS to D1. Then Coach Self started talking him up almost daily and I had to reconsider.

I figured Conner would play because, all things being equal, he has one bonafide elite basketball skill - shooting. I still think he finds a way to get into the lineup because shooters are always welcome on the court. But if Mason is a better PG, Conner's minutes will suffer because Mason will be the primary backup.

I don't care what color anybody is. I just don't see Self playing two guards that small together, especially with a guy like Selden that can also handle the ball. Its going to either be Conner or Frank, not both.

Bill Jacobson 8 years, 1 month ago

I think the biggest factor at who plays PG is who Self likes the best, not necessarily who has the best overall skills. Let's be honest, if Self has one weakness it is that once he locks onto a player he will justify that players role/minutes whatever the stats say. Let's just hope Frankamp or whoever actually is the best player is the one Self likes the best.

hawkmoon2020 8 years, 1 month ago

I do like me some CF, and believe he will be a GREAT addition to KU for whatever role he fills, or becomes. Since CS has not really mentioned any high accolades for CF since the Spring, I wonder what role he plays this year, or if he redshirts. Somethings gotta give with 11 potential players, and I trust CS to determine what is best for KU and CF this season. And, as much as I like me some AWIII, it's been all quiet on the western front. Again, we can speculate all day long, but in the end . . . Trust in Self!

REHawk 8 years, 1 month ago

I see CF as the type of player who frustrates opposing coaches who rely on zone defenses to try to stymy Wiggins, Selden, Ellis. Or teams who load up with 4 bruisers and a harrier. A first year red shirt might still be in his best interest, however, as he looks now to be a long shot for significant minutes this season. I see him as a serious thinker able to focus with determination to overcome shortcomings. So I am not writing him off until I have watched him and Bill Self work some early magic...or him and Andrea Hudy and Bill Self....

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