Monday, August 12, 2013

Analysts project KU freshmen near top of 2014 NBA Draft

Blue Team forward Andrew Wiggins gets airborne for a dunk against Red Team center Cole Aldrich during a scrimmage before the basketball campers on Wednesday, June, 19, 2013 at the Horejsi Center.

Blue Team forward Andrew Wiggins gets airborne for a dunk against Red Team center Cole Aldrich during a scrimmage before the basketball campers on Wednesday, June, 19, 2013 at the Horejsi Center.


Kentucky has a whopping seven players, while Kansas University and Michigan check in with two apiece on ESPN analyst Chad Ford’s updated, 30-player, 2014 NBA Draft “Big Board,” which was released Monday.

Ford currently projects KU freshmen Andrew Wiggins and Joel Embiid to be taken Nos. 1 and 8 respectively. He has Kentucky’s Julius Randle No. 2, followed by Andrew Harrison (7), Willie Cauley-Stein (14), James Young (20), Alex Poythress (21), Dakari Johnson (25) and Aaron Harrison (26).

Michigan’s Glenn Robinson III and Mitch McGary currently rank Nos. 13 and 16 respectively, with no other college having more than one player on the Big Board.

In expanding the ESPN rankings to the Top 100 ... KU freshman Wayne Selden is listed at No. 46 and sophomore Perry Ellis No. 67. There are 60 total selections in the two-round draft, which Ford says will “be epic ... a number of teams deliberately gutted their rosters this summer to get as high as possible in the 2014 lottery. It’s going to be big.”

While acknowledging that “fans may have to be patient as he figures out how to fit into a pretty loaded Jayhawk squad,” Ford continues to heap praise on the 6-foot-8 Wiggins.

“Many scouts believe he’s the best young prospect to come into the draft since Kevin Durant. Wiggins is blessed with extreme athleticism. You hear names such as Vince Carter and Dominique Wilkins when people talk about his explosive leaping abilities,” Ford wrote. “Wiggins is also a polished scorer who can shoot the three and get to the basket.”

Louisville coach Rick Pitino, who has coached in the NBA, recently shocked many by saying 7-foot Cameroon native Embiid could go No. 2 overall in the 2014 Draft. He’s only played basketball for two full seasons.

“The scouts I talked to aren’t quite ready to go there yet, but they are very, very intrigued,” Ford wrote. “Embiid is the riskiest player in the Top 10, but next to Wiggins, he might have the most long-term potential. ... His feel for the game is still a work in progress, but the physical tools are convincing. He has a 7-foot-5 wingspan, is a fluid athlete and is more skilled than one would think.”’s early mock draft for 2014 has Wiggins No. 1 overall and Embiid No. 12. Senior Tarik Black is projected as final pick of the second round. has KU with four first-round picks: Wiggins No. 1, Selden No. 5, Embiid No. 7 and Ellis No. 17.

For Chad Ford’s projections, click here.


Scott Smetana 8 years, 2 months ago

This is so stupid. Let them play in college 2-3 years. The NBA and NCAA would benefit. The players would benefit by developing under coaches and friends who care about them, not the greedy claws of everyone associated with the NBA. Let those who disagree go to Europe.

Jeff Kilgore 8 years, 2 months ago

Well, for our sake and enjoyment, yes. If I were 19 years old and had played one year of college ball, and someone wanted to drop a truckload of money in my account, I would have a problem with your objection. Yes, there are problems in the system, but the real problem is that they should be allowed straight NBA entrance from high school if they choose. I'm surprised it's legal to force them to play college basketball when college per se is not what they want to do.

Benz Junque 8 years, 2 months ago

They aren't FORCED to do anything. They don't have to go to college. They could sign with an NBA D-League team or go to Europe or stay home and practice on their own. They simpl;y are not eligible to join the NBA, which is free to restrict entry to their organization just like any other organization has the right to restrict eligibility via collective bargaining.

Martin Shupert 8 years, 2 months ago

Wow. "Love it or leave it" lives on. I thought it was a free country. Call me naive. In so many other sports, such as tennis and baseball, people can opt to play for pay if they choose to do so. To call the NBA greedy and dismiss the greed possessed by universities is beyond the pale. These players get nothing for their incredibly hard work, except the possibility to graduate from college, and they have to basically earn that themselves too. Meantime, the university can use their likenesses, their numbers, their stories, and their personalities to make huge amounts of money. I disagree with you completely, but I won't suggest you move to Europe. It seems obvious to me, though, that you are happy with freedom, as long as people choose to do what you think is right. Is that unamerican? My opinion is, it is, but again, you do have that right. This is America.

Steve Gantz 8 years, 2 months ago

What did he write that prompted your it's a free country comment? That's a little over the top. And as the parent of two college students with two more on the way to say that these kids get nothing for their hard work is completely untrue. They receive a free college education with all expenses paid up to five years. That's worth six figures just about anywhere a kid plays these days so stop pretending they're getting nothing, they're getting a lot.

Steve Gantz 8 years, 2 months ago

Wow, I just saw the last line of pikespeak..and I realized why you wrote the free country comment. Note to self, read first, then comment!

Benz Junque 8 years, 2 months ago

You aren't naive, just misinformed. The age restriction was reached via collective bargaining between the Players Union and the NBA owners.

They get NOTHING? Andrew Wiggins will be trained by one of the finest coaching staffs and training staffs in the nation for FREE. He will receive his college studies for FREE. He will receive national exposure via KU games on national television for FREE. NOTHING?!?

Tyical lazy American that thinks that "freedom" means that you are free to do whatever you want simply because you want to do it. Can I be a doctor today just because I want to be? NO. A lawyer? NO. There is a minimum amount of requirements that must be met before I am FREE to do so.

The NBA is not required to allow anyone who wants to play NBA ball to be eligible to do so. If they wanted to be a basketball league restricted only to people with six toes on one foot, they are free to do so provided that the restriction was agreed upon in collective bargaining.

Steve Gantz 8 years, 2 months ago

I believe baseball has a go pro immediately rule or stay in college for a 3 year minimum. I'd like to see that for college hoops.

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 2 months ago

My understanding of the baseball draft process is this...

Baseball players can get drafted out of HS. If they like their draft position they can go pro, if they don't like it then they can go to Juco or 4 year college.

If they go to Juco they will be eligible to be drafted again after their second year, if they go undrafted or choose not to accept their draft position they can transfer to a 4 year school, where they will be eligible for the draft again after their third college year, and again after their 4th year is complete.

If they go to a 4 year college then they are not eligible to be drafted until after their third year is complete.

I am not certain of this but I think that baseball players could potentially be drafted as many as 5 times.

jgkojak 8 years, 2 months ago

The easy solution is to allow kids to actually be drafted - they could put a predetermined place they want to go (i.e. lottery or first round or ANY) and if, say, they wanted to go first round and didn't, they can come off the draft board.

Take Selby - he could have chosen then to return to school. Or even Elijah last year.

texashawk10 8 years, 2 months ago

JuCo is only 1 year before the player is eligible to be drafted unless that rule has changed in the past few years.

jgkojak 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree - I don't understand why the NBA wants to babysit 18 year olds and spend time teaching fundamentals, when they could just go to a quality college program and learn from Self, Coach K, Izzo, etc.

Robin Smith 8 years, 2 months ago

The NBA would have a 3 year rule if they could. It's the NBPA that wants the lesser waiting period.

Greg Lux 8 years, 2 months ago

That is true about the NBPA which makes no sense. Since bring in younger players just moves older players out of the league earlier. A smart NBA player would want to make new players wait as long as possible to keep their jobs.

Preston Dwiggins 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree Pikes. For one, I really think P. Ellis will stay at least 3, if not, 4 years. He values an education unlike most player's across the nation. Embiid just touched the leather roundball 2-3 years ago, so let's hold off on slamming him into the NBA. TRob is on his third team and after 3 years at KU (I didn't think he was ready, but understood his circumstances), he will be more polished than Embiid most likely after 1 year. I know...I know...they draft on potential, but potential gets you Selby or Wright or Henry. I still think had Wright stayed and had a better work ethic in the NBA, he would be starting. He had mad skills. Wright is one of my favorites.

justanotherfan 8 years, 2 months ago

Perry will stay in college because its doubtful that he is ever a lottery pick, which is my cutoff for leaving early. Lottery picks will always get plenty of chances. Guys that go in the late first round or second round won't always get those same opportunities.

I think Perry may have a chance to play in the NBA at some point, but I don't think he makes the jump because he is smart enough to know that he isn't going to be a top pick next year in a draft as loaded as next season's will be, and he will benefit more from having a strong junior year than bouncing between the NBA and D-League.

Steve Corder 8 years, 2 months ago

Give this "analysts" 2014 NBA draft a rest! These kids haven't played one minute of their college career and we get this ridiculous article. I remember all the salivating over how Ben McLemore was projected to be a #1 before he even played his first KU game.

Frankly, put these "rankings" where the sun don't shine and lace up the shoes and just play the games! That's where the fun is.

Phil Leister 8 years, 2 months ago

No one was projecting McLemore to be #1 before playing a game.

TheBoHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

....Show me where Ben was a #1 projection in the 2013 draft before lacing up for us... I completely disagree with Pike's standpoint as well. The cream will rise to the top, no matter how many years they spend in college.. I'm not saying no player has ever benefited from increased exposure to high level competition...but ultimately it is what the player possess physically and especially cognitively/intuitively that make him a great player in the NBA. Some pros are just pros, other's are Stars... and then there are Superstars, no matter how long they spend in college, very little is going to change their plight.

texashawk10 8 years, 2 months ago

Ben McLemore had a semester of practicing with KU before he ever played a game so there was at least an indicator that McLemore was ma very good player if you paid attention to what was being said about him as KU made their run to the title game. Even with that said, Jeff Goodman was the only major sports writer I remember projecting McLemore as a lottery pick before last year and he had McLemore at 5 I believe.

Jonathan Even 8 years, 2 months ago

Isn't it just short of a miracle to get to the NBA in the first place? You HAVE to take that jump when it's presented to you, especially for some of these players that have been raised in poverty. It isn't Self's job to make his players NBA All Stars. It's his job to win conference championships and put us in Final Four contention every year. Self has done an amazing job at developing players to get them into the NBA; from there it's the player's responsibility.

I also don't think it's a bad thing to get the best players available or that Self's system isn't conducive for the one and done players. I think that's what we've been telling ourselves when we miss on highly recruited players. But this is KANSAS. Our players learn how to work extremely hard and delevop the mental toughness to not just let some highly ranked high school kid come and take their spot. And that's not a bad thing.

Jim Erickson 8 years, 2 months ago

Wiggens isn't going to stay for 4 years?

actorman 8 years, 2 months ago

Cairo, you're still not spelling Wiggins correctly! (I will concede that your comment is funny, though.)

JayDocMD 8 years, 2 months ago

Wiggens may be a 4 year player, but

Wiggins is a OAD, and

Wiggum is still a free agent looking for a team...

Chief Wiggum

Chief Wiggum by JayDocMD

Tony Bandle 8 years, 2 months ago

Probably the worst Haiku in the history of man.,...but still funny as hell !!!!

texashawk10 8 years, 2 months ago

When did Wiggum's beer league softball contract end?

Michael Pannacciulli 8 years, 2 months ago

Cracks me up how drastically different all of the "experts" mock drafts are. They get paid to do what we do evryday for free here on kusports. Guessing, pontificating, debating about college kids and their talents. Oh well.

I am just ready for the season to start and can't wait to see which new big recruit will announce he's coming to KU next.

jhox 8 years, 2 months ago

This is exactly why the NBA ruled that high school players couldn't go directly to the NBA. Teams were wasting picks on guys who they projected as NBA talents based on what they did against high school players. Until they play against elite competition, it is an educated guess, at most. To some extent that's even true in relation to what they do against elite college players. Until they actually play against NBA competition, it is still a gamble.

jhox 8 years, 2 months ago

I don't believe so. There is still not a lot of defense (or structured offense for that matter) played at the AAU level. It's probably a little better than in the past, but not great.

The reality is that even All American college players wash out in the NBA (KU has had a number of those). To expect scouts to evaluate potential NBA talent watching AAU games is probably expecting too much. Don't look for the NBA to change this rule any time's there to protect them from themselves.

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

I long for the day when the NBA will take the next harvest of Michael Jordan / Kobe Bryant / Wilt Chamberlain-esque superstars right out of middle school. Forget High School - vastly overrated.

Then every one of them can proclaim - I WAS going to go to KU......

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Sounds like your boy is a real diaper dandy !

Steve Gantz 8 years, 2 months ago

I think they should at least have a drivers license to play, don't you?

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Hmmm. They won't need a DL to play, but they will need one to get to their next job after they tear their ACL and the NBA boots them out the door. Good point, wissox.

texashawk10 8 years, 2 months ago

The fact that Selden is not currently a consensus lottery pick now should be enough for people to pause for a second a realize that Selden is a potential OAD, not a guaranteed OAD like Wiggins. Selden is ranked in the same range that Chalmers, Rush, Arthur, and Wright were in and those were all 2-3 year players. It is entirely possible that Selden is a OAD player and that he does end up being a top 10 pick because he has the physical attributes that NBA scouts drool over as a 2 guard. It's also entirely possible that Selden follows suit with Marcus Smart and hangs around a second year if his shooting isn't great because he be at best the third scoring option for KU this season behind Wiggins and Ellis. At this point, it's no better than 50/50 on Selden being OAD until we hear something different to tip the scales one way or the other.

Evan Bilyeu 8 years, 2 months ago

I feel like Wiggins will go number one. Selden will leave and Embiid I am thinking has a possibility of staying (depending on how well he does). Perry will stay til junior year. Tharpe will stay til senior year. And we will have one heck of a team in 14-15 season with Greene, Frankamp, Mason, AWlll, etc.

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 2 months ago

It speaks volumes that each of the mock drafts are so vastly different in how they rate the KU players. The fact is they're guessing at multiple variables, including 1) how the first year players will perform against college talent, and 2) which players intend to make themselves eligible for the draft.

I like the way that ESPN is looking at it, and just ranking every player as a pro-prospect in the upcoming draft. Even though most of the players will opt to stay in college, it really is the best way to show these players where they sit in the pecking order.

I continue to be blown away by how highly regarded Joel Embiid is. Apparently, the NBA GMs look at him as an instant shot-blocker worthy of a multi-million dollar contract based on shot-blocking and rebounding alone. Granted, I've only seen a few minutes of him playing in all-star games, but it sounds obvious that the draft talk surrounding him is mostly about his unrealized potential, and I suspect that people will accept that he's got a long way to go before he is ready to post up against Dwight Howard. Perhaps if he proves himself as a rebounder/shot blocker then he's a lock to go next year in the draft lottery.

bbhoops 8 years, 2 months ago

Has Perry #20

Perry had a very good showing at Adidas Nations his stock went up. We could lose 4 players after this year.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 2 months ago

Curious .. why do you think it would "harder" to snag both Turner and Oubre, replacing Black and Wiggins? Meaning, you mentioned that it would be harder if we didn't have 3 spots open. Oubre and Turner coming would seem to me to have no impact on the other .. one is a post, one a 2. Oubre coming would be impacted possibly by Selden, but not Embiid, correct? Or are you looking at it from another angle?

Robin Smith 8 years, 2 months ago

If Turner commits, Mudiay follows, I predict.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 2 months ago

Ah, I agree .. I posted on the roadblock thing the other day. I don't want transfers either, particularly not guys that are top 50. It demonstrates to other top 50s that they are a mere OAD away from wasting a full college season. Another reason to skip OADs.

JayDocMD 8 years, 2 months ago

Perry is set to have a break-out year. Wiggins will be the focus of other teams' defenses, and Black and Embiid will do the dirty work underneath. Perry will have space to use his diverse offensive arsenal to put up good numbers.

That said, he doesn't leave after this year. The 2014 draft is DEEP. Historically deep. Guys who would be lottery picks other years will fall to the end of the first round.

Perry is very intelligent. He'll figure out the '15 or '16 draft has him sniffing around the lottery instead of the end of the first round.

Benz Junque 8 years, 2 months ago

Ellis isn't a "breakout" kind of player. He will be a solid, steady contributor, but he seems to lack that killer mentality to be a true attacker that lights people up. I'l take steady and solid from Ellis this year and so would Self.

JayDocMD 8 years, 2 months ago

I guess we can debate the semantics of "breakout." To me, if Perry can average around double digits - which I think he can and will - then that's what I'm talking about.

joeloveshawks 8 years, 2 months ago

I hate seeing that so many guys might leave but if this squad brings home a National Championship it is well worth it. I'm happy to lose multiple players per year if it means titles.

Steve Gantz 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree but it's such a crap shoot as Kentucky found out. One group leads them to the title, then a fresh crop of recruits, highly touted can't beat Robert Morris in the NIT.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 2 months ago

A LOT of people have said that Parker would stay another year if Duke were to land Okafor & Jones.; especially if Duke does not win the championship this coming season.

Also, I have a hard time seeing Selden being that high. Hoping he's NOT an OAD actually.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 2 months ago

I think it's STILL best to NOT go the UK route, but just dabble in the OAD's. Guys like Tharpe, Mason, Frankamp, Br. Greene (maybe a 3AD?), A. White III, Traylor, Lucas, & Mickelson all have value ESPECIALLY in their latter two years.

ParisHawk 8 years, 2 months ago

There's a big difference between one OAD and multiple OADs.

If Wiggins alone goes, the program continues basically as before: win with developing or developed talent + an OAD if you can get one.

If multiple freshmen go, then we're hooked: we have to keep on getting OADs to replace the ones we lost. It's just like deficit spending or any other addiction: stopping is hard and it hurts bad.

If we move into multiple OAD territory, Coach Self is going to have to win a new way and land OADs to replace the ones who left.

Life with multiple OADs means more risk and greater volatility: a down year recruiting can lead to a bad year on the court and the end of streaks many of us are proud of.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 2 months ago

"At the same time, I'm afraid of losing the magic of what built Kansas basketball."

My feeling exactly.

texashawk10 8 years, 2 months ago

KU losing 3 OAD's in this hypothetical situation doesn't lock KU signing 3 more OAD's to replace them. Let's take it one step further and toss Ellis into the draft as well which means KU loses 5 players in the hypothetical. If you believe kD, it sounds like KU is a near lock for Myles Turner at this point so let's throw him into the mix next year hypothetically and what does that leave KU with? Assuming nobody transfers in this scenario, KU has a senior PG coming back in Naadir Tharpe, Frank Mason and Connor Frankamp will also be there in the back court. AW3 and Brannen Greene will be on the wing, and Hunter Mickelson, Landen Lucas, Jamari Traylor, and Myles Turner in the front court. That's a decent team right without any other additions.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 2 months ago

Crazy hyphothetical. Ellis isn't leaving PERIOD w/o a degree. He's NOT getting one in 2 years!!!! Now 3 years...that's a possibility.

texashawk10 8 years, 2 months ago

That's why it's a hypothetical situation. It's a worst case scenario simply to prove a point that Paris believes that if KU loses a bunch of players next year, only OAD's can replace them and that that's simply not true. I 100% believe Ellis is a 3 year minimum player and I also firmly believe Embiid is also a multiyear player at KU. Selden is the only toss up in my mind.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 2 months ago

I would about 100% guarantee that Perry Ellis is not leaving after this upcoming season.

He's not leaving w/o a degree, PERIOD. Now...having said that many a player's been able to get a degree in 3 years lately (i.e., we have one in Tarik Black). THAT'S when I could see Ellis leaving....after the '14/'15 season.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 2 months ago

Prevous meaning for OAD at Kansas - One And Done./ Present and future meaning for OAD at Kansas - Open All Doors.

The trend is obvious and lest there is some major change in the rules, the rarity of the OAD among the top 50 will be replaced by the rarity of the four year player in the top 50.

We are witnessing the evolution of college basketball right before our very eyes, with ever increasing speed and matching deterioration of the purity of the game.

The day is coming that unless you have a minimum of three OADs, your chances of an NCAA Championship will be greatly diminished.

The OAD is fast becoming the "coin of the realm" for college basketball success. It will be a new era but I doubt seriously it will be a better one!!!

I turned 65 yesterday.....I guess I just became a crabby old man!!! :)

wrwlumpy 8 years, 2 months ago

Happy Birthday. I too am 65 this year and remember the years before Calipari. Selden and Wiggins have played together and against each other many times in the "high school doesn't really count" world of AAU. Jo Jo will need more time and Ellis probably will stay till he graduates, but he will probably graduate in 3 years. Last year's 5th year Senior's with Ben was my favorite team of all. I guess us old timers have to get use to the digital world of instant gratification.

PVJayhawk 8 years, 2 months ago

Oak-You went from crabby middle-aged man to crabby old man in 1 day? Happy birthday, anyway!

Ron Franklin 8 years, 2 months ago

My pops just turned 64 on the 9th Oak, So I can identify the crabbiness of which you speak :) JK, Happy bday! You are a gem for the rest of us.

justanotherfan 8 years, 2 months ago

Potential OADs are the best players, and often they are the best players by a significant amount.

For example, take a guy like Kevin Durant. Elite talent, obviously. Averaged basically 26 points and 11 rebounds in his one season at Texas. Adding a player like that to an already deep KU team would be huge. Now, let's say instead of Durant, you want a guy that's going to be a 3 or 4 year player. Well, you have to drop down and get a player like Wayne Chism (#34 in Durant's class) (went to Tennessee) or Deshawn Sims (#31 in Durant's class) (Michigan). For his career (which was very solid) Chism averaged 11 points and 7 rebounds. In his last two seasons he averaged roughly 13 and 8. Sims averaged 17 and 8 as a senior, 15 and 7 as a junior.

So you can either have one season of a guy that might be able to take a solid team and turn them elite, or you can get 3-4 seasons of very solid (if not spectacular) production.

That's the choice that a coach has to make. They can't have both because guys that can provide that elite production are going to be OADs (potentially), and the guys that aren't OADs will only give you 75-80% of that production in their best season.

This is the recruiting situation now. Either recruit the elite players (top 25 or so players) or drop down into the low 20s and 30s to avoid any potential OADs. If you want to stay consistently elite (not just solid) you have to go after the elite players.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 2 months ago

I think I'd want something in between....a bunch of 2AD & 3AD's with "in-between" numbers.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 2 months ago

Just talked to a very reiable source from The Williams Fund. It was overheard in a conversation at a Williams Fund event with Bill Self that he was asked about Andrew Wiggins.

The quote that I was given was, "Andrew Wiggins makes Ben McLemore look like a walk-on."

Take it for what it's worth but, oh man, basketball can't get here too soon.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 2 months ago

Ummm, I think that's because Wiggins CAN dribble-drive!!!!!

Still would be surprised if he shoots it from the perimeter as well as McLemore did though.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 2 months ago

justanotherfan's take above may not be incorrect. But I think it is. I disagree with the conclusion and some of the assumptions.

The biggest assumption I disagree with is that a non OAD will only give you 75-80% of the production in their best season. We can recruit guys outside of the immediately elite level (OADs), that develop into elite players. Marcus Morris in his third season was clearly elite. TRob, too. Kieff, Collins, Withey, etc. And that's the key. Getting guys with high talent that will be elite. That develop into an elite level player.

True, the OAD is better out of the gate. But he's gone. That is the difference. Instant gratification vs. development. A pit-stop vs. a program.

I do believe firmly that we can stay consistently elite and still avoid presumed OADs (assumed to be the "elite" players referred to). You can have elite players, while grooming those to assume the role. That's a program (my opinion).

What will happen at times is McLemore .. a non-presumed OAD who plays his way into that position. But you can't recruit based on that. You can recruit and avoid presumed OADs. We talk about OADs, but we only have one presumed OAD .. Wiggins. Selden and Embiid were not presumed OADs when recruited.

Clearly, a team with guys outside of presumed OAD status can play at an elite level. It's happened here. And it's happened at many places. As an elite school, we can continue to the fill the cupboard with quality recruits that develop, and avoid the big ups and downs.

And that is exactly why Self has kept us consistently elite. Not because he gets the OADs every year.

If we shift to a rotating door of OADs, we have become what we despise .. UK. No thanks.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 2 months ago

One of the reasons I was making Oubre paramount....most consider him to be more likely a 2 or 3AD.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 2 months ago

Don't worry, I will. But my mind is still open on this Wiggins experiment. If we have a nice, shiny NCAA title trophy come April, there will be no complaints from me. And I'm very excited to see Wiggins in a KU uniform. No denying that.

But I have yet to move to the dark side ...

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 2 months ago

I agree with HEM on this one... if TRob and McM were expected to put up their junior numbers when they were freshman then they'd have been presumed OADs.

Then there are the "elite" college talents who are not high NBA prospects. Sherron Collins may well have been able to put up OAD numbers for 4 years in college and still not been drafted.

You don't have to recruit presumed OADs to get a 20 and 10 type player and there's more to being a Pro than just putting up gaudy stats.

topekat70 8 years, 2 months ago

Off the subject, but I thought some would be interested that the Minneapolis StarTribune has just posted a Tyus Jones tweet about his "official" college visits:

These are the final visits I'm taking. Unofficial to MN today Officials to: Baylor Aug 30-Sept 1 UK Sept 27-29 KU Oct 18-20 Duke Oct 25-27 11:40 AM - 13 Aug 2013

The Strib also reports that Duke is presumed by many to be the favorite. Funny that Mich St isn't on the list.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 2 months ago

Usually, a high-ranked recruit will visit with the presumed school he's most seriously considering last.

Greg Lux 8 years, 2 months ago

Perry Ellis not drafted???? That is great news for KU fans who want Perry to stay another year, but totally absurd for anyone with any sense of basketball talent. By placing Perry out of the draft those idiots at ESPN have blown their credit-ability totally.... Also Selden in the middle of the second round is also good news for KU fans as you would assume Selden would stay another year or two. The season has not even started yet and they are rating draft picks... INSANE... KU's freshman will be much better then ESPN thinks and I will smile as I watch their stupid predictions go south as the season progresses. Perry make them eat their words...

Rock Chalk

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 2 months ago

Ummm, they still have Embiid 8th. Scares me as I could see him decide to leave if in multiple services he's ranked 10th or higher.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 2 months ago

I would say that the first 10 are obvious OAD's (at least in the Class of '14...not quite as good as the Class of '13)....10-15 are maybe likely...15-20 possible. After 20 unlikely.

That would mean that J. Okafor, Jones, Mudiay, M. Turner, Cl. Alexander, Looney, R. Vaughn, Winslow, S. Johnson, Lyles, Towns Jr.& McCullough are all probably good as gone.

Next tier includes a number of those early UNC commits - i.e., Justin Jackson, Joel Berry & Pinson are all borderline along with JaQuan Lyle, Devin Booker, Jordan McLaughlin, Goodluck Okonoboh, Josh Perkins, Kelly Oubre & D. Hamilton are possibilities.....after that grouping.....just not likely to be OAD's for the likes of:

Abdul Malik-Abu, Jalen Lindsay, Keita Bates-Diop, Leron Black, Shelton Mitchell, Dion Wiley, D'Angelo Russell, Victor Law, Dwayne Morgan, Parker Jackson-Cartwright, Quentin Snider, Caleb Martin, Isaiah Whitehead, Phil Booth, L.J. Peak,, etc.

Now some of those well could be 2AD like Dion Wiley & Whitehead for example, but I'd have a hard time seeing them be OADs.

The onlys ones of these "next tier" unlikely to be an OAD but likely to be a 2AD or 3AD guys that I've heard us linked to are Malik-Abu, Black & Whitehead.

I've been hearing all kind of schools for Malik-Abu (and he's pretty much an undersized PF)....primarily Memphis or Baylor for Black (not sure we need a PF anyway) & Syracuse for Whitehead.

Scott Smetana 8 years, 2 months ago

I would have an easier time agreeing with the OAD concept if many of those players actually made an immediate impact on the NBA. I understand every few years there's a Kobe, Lebron, Durant, etc... HOWEVER, I feel that 95% of draft picks play only a few minutes at first, if at all. I'm also betting most of those superstars wish they had a 2 year college experience.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 2 months ago

We might FINALLY have some KU players begin to emerge in the NBA again. Morrises (particularly Markieff) will be given every chance possible now - especially since they traded away Luis Scola to open up playing time for them even. AWESOME Summer leagues for each of them.

T.Rob showed that he can really rebound at least in Summer League....we'll see if that translates

texashawk10 8 years, 2 months ago

Kobe did not have a significant impact until year 3 with the Lakers.

jaybate 8 years, 2 months ago

"KU, OADs, and Sir Andrew"

Without Wiggins, Self's recruiting this season is virtually indistinguishable from the past. He had a lot of slots. He got a bunch of guys. They ranged in rank from Selden who is good enough to play as a freshman, same as Marcus Morris, when a slot was open, all the way down to a Towson State renege--Frank Mason. In between, Embiid, Greene and Conner may be able to play some, or one may take a rouge smoking jacket.

Wiggins is the only thing different about this class.

And Self fished for him the same as he has fished for many, many top OADs. He was down to the final two on Derek Rose. He was down to the final cut on John Wall.

Self is going to keep fitting guys into the slots he needs.

Self could have gone with AWIII, or Brannen Greene at three had A Wigs not signed.

A Wigs is probably just Self's lucky break, unless, unless...

adidas has decided to massively increase their bidding for shoe contract endorsers once players get to the NBA. Derek Rose wearing adidas, after Nikes in college, makes me think that adidas had already laid out its counter strategy to Lebron before the Wiggins signing, and that Wiggins fits into the Rose strategy.

Lebron is king for the rest of the decade barring some horrendous injury. adidas cannot hope to top him with any one player. So: adidas is doing the only thing it can. It is opening up its wallet to line up top stars in as many media markets as it can that DON'T HAVE LEBRON.

Lebron and Nike have one achilles heel. Lebron is in Miami, which is not New York or Los Angeles, or Chicago.

If adidas plays its cards right, and opens up its wallet quite a bit more than it once did, it could wind up with the top stars in a whole bunch of the media markets, while Lebron is king of the league as a whole. Right now, Adidas has the top player in Chicago, will soon have the top player in Sacramento, and when A Wigs comes out, may well have the top player whereever A Wigs goes.

jaybate 8 years, 2 months ago

Part 2

The best scenario for Adidas is A Wigs signs with Toronto. Toronto is in Ontario, which has 13 million very prosperous persons, which is a bigger market than all but LA, or NY. Further, Canada has 34 million persons. Who do you think can sell tennis shoes to 34M Canadians better than A Wigs?

Next, A Wigs is a citizen of Canada, which is a member of the British Common Wealth of Nations. The British Common Wealth of Nations (BCWN) is the second, or third largest economic unit on the planet. There are 2.5 Billion persons living in states comprising the BCWN and they be needing tennis shoes, too. The BCWN offers preferred trading status to all of its member nations. There are 250 million English speaking Indians alone. A Wigs could add just a tinge of the King's English to his accent and haul in India all at once!

If you are adidas, and you land A Wigs as a pro, and the BCWN gets behind using A Wigs to market to the Common Wealth, as it reputedly sometimes gets behind certain economic players it builds alliances with, then A Wigs is a frigging tennis shoe and sports apparel gold mine, if he just becomes a star of the Toronto team. And if A Wigs were to hang around and eclipse Lebron, when Lebron gets a little too old for this shizz, then A Wigs is a potential global bonanza that could make MJ and even Lebron look like small change. Someone is going to be the super endorser of the globalized economy. It might as well be A Wigs, if he's as good as his hype.

So: IMHO A Wigs is a bit of an anomalous case. KU is a great marketing tie in for AWigs because hence forth he and adidas get to say, "First Canada gave the world James Naismith, the inventor of basketball. Now Canada gives the world Andrew Wiggins, and he is showing the world how Mr. Naismith always meant the game to be played.

Insert a montage of awesome moves and vicious dunks, then cut to a goal unexpectedly on the side of Windsor Palace. God Save the Queen plays. Then cut to Andrew in Toronto Arena. The Canadian National Anthem plays. Andrew makes a few faints then drives and launches from the paint, flying out through the Toronto arena roof, arcing across the firmament and coming down in London approaching the basket seen previously mounted on Windsor Castle and windmilling for all he is worth. When he lands on the ground, he turns and bows. Cut to the Queen standing on a balcony looking down, who says, "Jolly good show, Sir Andrew, jolly good."

jaybate 8 years, 2 months ago

Part 3

Adidas can even use the Crown's own BP and Royal Dutch Shell oil from the waters around Indonesia and East Timor (a moment of silence for those genocided in East Timor), then get it refined into the miscellaneous oil based synthetic rubbers and plastics used to make basketball shoes and make the Andrew Model Adidas in some factory in Industrial City, Indonesia that hopefully has decided to pay folks a fair wage and leave the kids out of the factories. But I digress.

Note: there is knighthood in Andrew's future if he can soar to superstardom as a player.

But does this all translate to KU becoming the next D1 rest area for OADs?

I kind of doubt it. Wilt has helped attract a lot of good players to KU. But KU never cornered all the great bigs because of Wilt. Andrew's legacy at KU, if particularly memorable, could help attract a lot of players, but cornering the market as Cal has done seems quite unlikely.

At most, KU will bite into and dilute UK's corner on the OADs.


Michael Luby 8 years, 2 months ago

Great stuff Jaybate. I needed a good laugh today. Brilliant!

scootja32 8 years, 2 months ago

Selden at 46? wow!

The guy has iguodala, westbrook written all over him

Steve Brown 8 years, 2 months ago

For a thousand years the buffalo prepared this ground and in a generation the Russians, Swedes, Germans with backing from the railroads created the world's breadbasket. You can't see Kansas from 30,000 or I-70 you see it in the eyes of those whose grandparents broke the ground and built a community. Huddle around the fire, turn on the short wave, Ike is in the White House and Max is about to describe how Doc's boys will handle Missurah. . .

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