Sunday, September 23, 2012

Jayhawks get dose of ‘reality’

Charlie Weis has whole team watch fourth-quarter collapse together

KU quarterback Dayne Crist (10) is pressured by the Huskies Ken Bishop (93) in the second half of KU's 30-23 loss to Northern Illinois Huskies Saturday, September 22, 2012, at Huskie Stadium in DeKalb, Ill.

KU quarterback Dayne Crist (10) is pressured by the Huskies Ken Bishop (93) in the second half of KU's 30-23 loss to Northern Illinois Huskies Saturday, September 22, 2012, at Huskie Stadium in DeKalb, Ill.


Every Sunday, win or lose, Kansas University’s football team gets together to watch film and break down what went right and what went wrong the day before.

This Sunday, the review session took on a little different form.

“Today, we watched the fourth quarter,” KU coach Charlie Weis said. “The entire team watched the entire fourth quarter, from (Tyler) Patmon’s interception right to the end of the game; consecutive plays, so they see how you go from a two-score lead to losing the game.”

That’s exactly what happened Saturday, when Patmon’s interception return for a touchdown gave the Jayhawks a 23-13 lead at Northern Illinois with 14:33 to play. Exactly 10 minutes later, the Jayhawks (1-3) trailed, 30-23, and went on to lose their third straight game.

Weis was asked Sunday night if his decision to make his players sit through the collapse collectively was the equivalent of some type of detention.

“That wasn’t a punishment at all,” he said. “That was reality.”

Watching game film, of course, is customary and is a regular part of every Sunday practice. But most weeks, the film is reviewed by position, with offensive players watching offensive tape and defensive players watching defense. Weis changed it up this week to help emphasize that the blame for the Jayhawks’ early-season struggles extends to everyone in the locker room. Doing so, he hoped, would continue to push the message that they’re all in this together.

“The whole team could hear the coaching points for every position,” Weis said. “The defense could hear me talk to the quarterback. The offense could hear (defensive coordinator Dave) Campo talk to the secondary. Everyone could hear all the assistant coaches giving the coaching points so the team knows the offense could’ve won the game, the defense could’ve won the game, special teams could’ve won the game.”

Overall, Weis said the Jayhawks’ reaction to Saturday’s loss was much different than the one they encountered after suffering a similar setback against Rice in Week Two, when the Owls erased an 11-point fourth-quarter deficit to win on a field goal as time expired.

“The Rice one, I think they were a little bit shocked,” Weis said. “This one, I think they were more hurt than shocked. And that’s what you want them to be. You want them to be quiet. That’s what they were. They reacted the way you want the team to react.”

Despite his team’s disappointment, Weis did not change anything about his mental approach Sunday.

“I was not easy on them,” he said. “It was not a come-in-and-everything-is-beautiful (day). That’s not my way.”

O-Line breakdown ID’d

Weis said KU’s meltdown in pass protection during Saturday’s loss to NIU came as a result of the Huskies setting up their defensive linemen on the right side a little wider than normal.

“We got beat on the same alignment twice on the right side,” Weis said. “They really put the (KU) right guard and the right tackle a little bit on an island. Now, it shouldn’t have been that difficult for us to pick up. It shouldn’t have happened the first time.”

After staying clean for most of the first three quarters, KU quarterback Dayne Crist was sacked three times in the fourth quarter and hurried at least twice that many.

“They mixed it up,” Crist said of NIU’s pass rush. “They brought a little bit more pressure the second half. They weren’t a heavy blitz team on the surface, but they definitely turned it up in the second half and were pretty disruptive.”

Injury update

Weis said the prognosis for injured running back Taylor Cox looked better than he thought it would on Sunday.

Cox, a junior who left Saturday’s loss because of an injury after just three carries, appeared to have trainers looking at the back of his right leg on the sideline. Cox remained in uniform and on the bench throughout the game but did not return to the field.

“I expected him to be listed as doubtful or out, and he wasn’t listed as doubtful or out,” Weis said. “With it being a bye week, they thought he had a chance of playing in the next game.”

KU is off this week and will play Oct. 6 at Kansas State.


741hawk 8 years, 5 months ago

First in from Colorado!
I'm as disappointed as most of the rest of you. We are two plays short of two more victories. There is no question that we have experienced, capable coaches. We need to give them time. We need to see if they can recruit. We know our AD will be supportive . . . and with improved facilities.

okiedave 8 years, 5 months ago

Second in from Oklahoma! The kids do not seem to be quitters. We have had some 4th quarter breakdowns and seem to be so afraid of losing to the point we freeze and clutch.

741hawk 8 years, 5 months ago

It's a process to get to the point where, at the end of a game, you think you are going to win (rather than lose).

Jim Erickson 8 years, 5 months ago

I agree 741... Really wished we would be further ahead at this point but Weis was not hired to win in 2012. This season will be painful but Weis needs some time. Getting a half decent stadium wouldn't hurt!

JVZMan 8 years, 5 months ago

Speaking of Colorado:

Jordan Webb named Pac 12 player of the week!

Ben Kliewer 8 years, 5 months ago

Wait... WHAT?! You've been the one championing him since the beginning, and if I remember correctly, I was ganged up on and told to shut up when I suggested we don't get our hopes up until we see what Weis produces, and NOW you're saying you're off the bandwagon?

Y'all are a fickle bunch...

Jim Erickson 8 years, 5 months ago

ahperse... If your faith in Weis was based on 2012 production than you are out of your mind! I certainly hoped this would be further ahead at this point, but I never had any illusions that Weis was hired to win in 2012.

JakeBarnes 8 years, 5 months ago

Don't believe him. He's pulling your leg.

Lucas Town 8 years, 5 months ago

this sounds like the name of a beer...

Ashwin Rao 8 years, 5 months ago

Stop the font stuff,manginorh00lz! Not sure what you are getting out of it, but I can do without that!

Danny Hernandez 8 years, 5 months ago

Who's the douce using caps in the posts above? how can we get him fired?

From the 305/786 area code, I'm not panicking. Hey, we could be Duke or KY football! They're much worse than we are, much worse.

Coach Weis and staff know what they're doing. They had to bring in 5th yr seniors to at least get the freshman and sophmores more time to build up their bodies, learn the schemes and to just get better. They were at a recruiting disadvantage. And as much as I wish we were 3-1 or 4-0, I'd much rather that posters like the douches manginorh00lz and asper above would support misery instead.

NebraskaJayhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

Don't get me wrong when I say this please because I am still a Crist fan and supporter. But the big difference between us and K-State right now is at QB.

Lucas Town 8 years, 5 months ago our Defense is right on with K-State's? Yeah we get turnovers, but where are the W's. K-State gets a week off like we do, you think that bunch is going to make mistakes that will cost them the game, from what I have seen I doubt it. If it's not the defense then our offense makes theirs look prolific. We haven't beaten an FBS school in 54 weeks!

NebraskaJayhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

No, I'm not saying we are par with K-State on D. I don't believe I said that at all. But to me, with Klein behind center for us we are 3-1 at this state of the season if not 4-0. There is a glaring difference at QB for us right now. That's not saying Crist won't continue to improve, but right now there is a big difference.

Don't get your panties in a bunch Jaykan7.

Armen Kurdian 8 years, 5 months ago

DC got hurried in the 4th quarter which didn't help, but when he did have time, he missed open receivers, and an easy touchdown included in that. But the D can't keep losing it in the 4th quarter either. A lot of folks have their share of the blame, including the coaching staff for not making the right defensive adjustments.

This team IS better than it was last year. I know they believe they can win...they just need to play 60 minutes.

Lucas Town 8 years, 5 months ago

I have excepted that this will be a long year, and continued improvement is a good thing. But I will say this even a team that is reeling and having some bad games can find a win somewhere on the schedule, and when that happens, this year, it will be awesome.

Mike Nicco 8 years, 5 months ago

I agree with you about Crist. But I still believe the blame lies at the feet of our OC. This defense, the worst in football last year, gave you a 23-13 lead with 14:33 to play. What did the offense do to protect that lead, nothing? We pass, incompletion, clock stops. We run the delayed screed 4x and it never worked. By the end of the game, the play calling put Crist in a situation where he can not succeed, carrying the team. He is clearly more of a game manager.

To not put more of the blame on the offense is being short-sighted.

Jim Erickson 8 years, 5 months ago

A culture is a bigger factor than most want to believe. Look at Miami. Incredible talent with nothing to show year after year. On a more measurable level, Crist is terrible. Jordan Webb didn't put us on his back and lead us to victory but he at least played respectable and didn't prevent us from winning. Crist is much worse than Webb.

NebraskaJayhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

I don't know man...Webb wasn't very good either. He had horrible accuracy issues, which is what Crist is struggling with at the moment as well.

Jim Erickson 8 years, 5 months ago

Nebraska... I appreciate the perspective. I get clips and stats to base a lot of my opinions on so I'll admit I could be wrong. My reasoning is that Webb had a higher completion percentage. Crist has advantages that Webb didn't with the O-Line as it seems to be improved in their pass blocking (Hawk and Zlatnik are both NFL prospects and on the left side) and the receivers are not good but are virtually the same that Webb had.

I'll admit that a lot of this could be blamed on a scheme change. The pro-offense is difficult to pick up.

NebraskaJayhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

Agreed about the pro offense used in college football. It didn't work for Callahan at Nebraska, that's for sure. We'll see in a couple of years whether Weis can make it happen at Kansas.

JakeBarnes 8 years, 5 months ago

We do not have the talent. Watch the games. He didn't get a good chance to recruit, and he will have a hard time when he does given our football history. I think we have to wait for an incremental improvement in recruiting and performance. He needs at least 5 years and that may be pushing it. He will surely win more games next year than this year. We may already have won our season output in victories. Our team is pretty slow. The QB may be the slowest in KU history. We are outsized pretty regularly by the teams we have played thus far with TCU the only major college opponent. I hate like hell to write this stuff, but it is true. Our plays are geared to faster hitting athletes that we don't have. We look like a single wing team or a Notre Dame box team (anyone remember these?) playing against the split T most of the time. However, I really believe Weis is capable of making this a pretty good football school if he stays and his assistants stay.

Nic Andrews 8 years, 5 months ago

Please dude. Actually watching the games, proves we have talent. We have the talent to beat Rice, NIU, Iowa St., Texas Tech... but if we keep it up with this QB who struggles as this guy has & questionable 2nd half play calling, it will be yet another under-performing year. Refuse to believe we don't have the folks to win a few games.

JakeBarnes 8 years, 5 months ago

Somehow or another I got the impression we lost to Rice and Northern Illinois, that they had the talent to beat us. Sorry. All along I thought I watched those two games. Also we will see if Iowa State or Tech loses. I have the impression we haven't played them yet. If I have I missed them, sorry again. But thanks for your insight.

Kevin Crook 8 years, 5 months ago

It's a lot of little things, but we definitely have a losing culture. These kids know that when the fourth quarter comes it's time for things to go wrong. Watch ksu play. They don't beat themselves. They MASTER the little things. The block perfectly, they tackle well, they don't turn it over, they make the simple play over and over. They are not spectacular. For some reason their offensive scheme looks 200% better than ours, but it is very simple. The qb has a series of reads to make, then he makes a great decision. He never looks rattled. It looks like our offensive plan does not match our team, plus as nice of a young man as Crist is, he hasn't shown the moxie we need. He could use a little Reesing in him, he's too perfect of a mold for a great qb, he needs to learn to fight!

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

You are right about your assesment of K-State, but it makes me laugh that nervous little crazy laugh that happens when you realize the world is collapsing around you.

Is anybody out there old enough to remember when K-State was LITERALLY the laughingstock of college football? Not just the State of Kansas football - the whole damm country. They were about 14 seconds away from folding their hand and throwing in the towel on the football program when Snyder came along.

I'm not an addicted gambler or anything, but back in the day I made a LOT of money betting on K-State games (because their fans were still dumb enough to bet for them). I can't tell you how many times I gave them 30, 40, 50 points and still made money. Oh, for the good ol days.

So, yeah, we suck at football, but we're still not in the same league as K-State was back in the day. If Synder can make them into a respectable team, there is still hope for us.

Lucas Town 8 years, 5 months ago

I don't remember much before the early-mid 90's (94-95) so all I have ever known is, we have a good team every few years and we typically lose to K-State. So basically in the last 20 or so years we have only beaten K-State 4 times that I can remember.

JakeBarnes 8 years, 5 months ago

One of the national news magazines had an article about K-State then calling it something like "Loser U."

Lucas Town 8 years, 5 months ago

I remember seeing a reprint or something of the article called "Futility U" and their overall school record is not good. But if we go 1-11 this year our overall record will be 574-581-58 which to me is not good either. Maybe in 2 or 3 years we will be good enough to beat those guys.

Lucas Town 8 years, 5 months ago

Here is what I see, we have great athletes, but they are not football players or at least have no football IQ. Playing in high school and now in college how can these kids not have any idea how to play with a lead? Is it coaching, I hope not. Anyone want to guess how hostile it will be in Manhattan? I will record that game and then decide later whether or not to watch it. How could things have gotten this bad so fast? Karma? The success we had in 07' and then the athletic department troubles followed by Lew making some questionable decisions. Hopefully karma stays the hell away from the men's basketball program.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 5 months ago

The headline should read, JAYHAWK FANBASE GET DOSE OF 'REALITY'.

Come on, all you naysayers, did you honestly believe that this Kansas Football turnaround was going to be easy or quick?? I said on this very site that six victories were possible but that don't be surpised if it's only two or even one.

This is not a retooling project..this is a total rebuilding project and to want to fire Charlie and start over is to invite the continual pattern that has plagued this program for decades.

Kansas has been playing basketball for over a century and how many head coaches have we had????? Eight !!!

COINCIDENCE...I think not. Show some knowledge and show some patience. We would probably have been out of this season's losses by the fourth quarter last year. The improvement is marginal...but it is there.

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

You're right, of course. I'm not so much amped up about firing CW (yet), but I could get that way pretty quick if CW

A) doesn't yank Crist out of the starting lineup. 2) doesn't quit giving up two score, 4th qtr leads.

In some twisted way, we're seeing some improvements over last year, but I'm not liking his stubborness when it comes to the QB position (unless there's just not anyone else to put in there??) and I'm a little baffled that a D-1 team can't come up with any kind of a kicker. Surely someone on the team played soccer in the 3rd grade - let them give it a try.

Chris Bailey 8 years, 5 months ago

Yeah we need a kicker. We need to head to Rockhurst and try and steal that kid. We can't talk firing of a coach. Come on! We just went through that crap. What message do we send to anyone interested in the position when we've fired 3 coaches since 2009? Win or you're fired? Gill was the exception. He was terrible. Weis needs time to both recruit and develop players. We knew going in to the season we probably wouldn't win many games. We gotta give this staff a chance to develop these kids. We need to recruit and yes that includes JUCO kids. But we really gotta recruit the heck outta high school players and get them onboard with what coach is trying to do. Our QB has been anything but impressive but the team is improved. Maybe not in W's/L's but the talent especially on defense. I am disappointed since the offense was to be our strength. We need to pound the rock and only use the pass to open the running lanes up. That will make it easier on Crist to throw it as he won't be asked to shoulder as much responsibility. Get behind Weis and be supportive. Give the guy a chance to do his job. I knew when people were boasting the 4,5,6 wins crap this would happen. We drank the koolaid but don't make this into Jonestown. Everyone needs to just calm down and be positive. Rock Chalk!

Tony Bandle 8 years, 5 months ago

Heck..we probably have some women soccer players that could kick better than who we have now....hey, let's call the Texas State Fightin' Armadillos and see who they have!!

Jayhawk1116 8 years, 5 months ago

I'd be alright with Kathy Ireland being our kicker...

Lucas Town 8 years, 5 months ago

What's funny about that movie is that Texas State's first win in that movie was against the Jayhawks. So your telling me that a winless program back from a death penalty, with a female kicker, a 40 year old quarterback still beat the Jayhawks. We are in trouble this year. lol By now I hope everyone can laugh at that situation.

Lucas Town 8 years, 5 months ago

and to add insult to injury she kicked our linebacker in the nuts.

Mike Barnhart 8 years, 5 months ago

Our 2009 team was outscored by more than 30 points one time. In Turner Gill's two season's we lost by 30 four times, we lost by 40 four times and were outscored by FIFTY twice!

At this point, Charlie's team has been competitive and we've had a chance to win every game, even TCU. That's a start in the right direction! As long as we're done getting blown off the field in the first half of games, I'll give Charlie a passing grade for 2012. The schedule tells us we're about to find that out!

troutsee 8 years, 5 months ago

Bench Crist. The only thing he can do is hand off. Any body can do that.

David A. Smith 8 years, 5 months ago

Wow- you know, the naysayers are right! We should be 4-0 after being the worst team in D-1 the last two years!

Tony Bandle 8 years, 5 months ago

By your email ID, I'm guessing you're a dog lover!!

vd 8 years, 5 months ago

I hope Weiss is showing the team the 4th qtr., so when he hands the starting job to Cummings, for the KState game,the team will go,"Wow, coach wants to win this game!"

squawkhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

Problem with this is K-State's defense will literally go off an a new, inexperienced QB in what will be the biggest game of his life. Not necessarily the way you want to break in a new QB.

Bradly Moore 8 years, 5 months ago

It is all about coaching. That rotten old man in manhattan takes average talent and consistently coaches them up. They have NO business winning at OU. They win with solid ST and D. I hate using the belt buckles as an example, but they never out recruit us. They always out coach us.

JakeBarnes 8 years, 5 months ago

Maybe you ought to check to see how many all-Americans that "old man in manhattan" has coached compared to K.U.'s all-Americans during those years. Then see if he has average talent.

squawkhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

It is my understanding that the talent gets year-in and year-out is, for the most part, average talent. Mostly comprised of 2 and 3 star athletes but very few 4 star and rarely a 5 star kid. They also rely on walk on talent as well. The difference here is that these kids come in from high school as unknown and lesser recruited athletes but they are coached up to get the max out of each one. This is coaching. I don't recall a Kansas FB coach being in the same league as Snyder when it comes to assessing talent and coaching kids up. They leave KSU as all-americans because the are taught the tools on how to be the best they can.

John Mueller 8 years, 5 months ago

That old man is the best football coach in the history of college football if you compare his impact on W v L's in his first ten years on the job v the previous ten years of KSU prior to his arrival.

Then compare his winning percentage to anybody.

K - State has the best win in college football so far this year.

He is a hall of famer and all time great!

Hats off to Coach Snyder.

Now, let's kick his butt next week!

Man, what will that line be? -28?


Maybe next year.

squawkhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

Thankfully for us Snyder isn't really prone to purposely running up the score. He'll be more interested in getting 2nd and 3rd team players some playing time and experience than he will making any kind of a statement. Once they get a 4 score lead he'll pull most of his starters, unless that happens in the first half...which it could.

John Mueller 8 years, 5 months ago

With regards to talent, it is substantially better than ours, but his talent is well below OU and Texas and probably even Mizzou every year.

The man can simply coach em up!

To use an old bum Phillips quote ,

He can take his and beat yours and then he can take yours and beat hissens....

John Mueller 8 years, 5 months ago

Well, since you weren't too disrespectful, I'm gonna laugh at that .

But, no troll here my friend.

When my Dad took me to my first KU football game, Pepper Rodgers was the coach.

I simply respect the man's body of work.

It is really remarkable.

That said, I hope we take it too them next weekend, but I don't like our chances.

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