Kansas defeats Emporia State, 88-54

  • 7 p.m., Oct. 30, 2012
  • Allen Fieldhouse, Lawrence, KS

Tuesday, October 30, 2012

Stoic Perry Ellis shines in KU’s exhibition win over Emporia State

Kansas forward Perry Ellis is congratulated as he comes out of the game during the second half against Emporia State, Tuesday, Oct. 30, 2012 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas forward Perry Ellis is congratulated as he comes out of the game during the second half against Emporia State, Tuesday, Oct. 30, 2012 at Allen Fieldhouse.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self talks after 88-54 win over ESU

KU coach Bill Self talks after his team's 88-54 victory over Emporia State on Tuesday, Oct. 30, 2012.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Ben McLemore, Rio Adams and Landen Lucas talk after ESU win

KU freshmen Ben McLemore, Rio Adams and Landen Lucas talk after the Jayhawks' 88-54 victory over Emporia State on Tuesday, Oct. 30, 2012.

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Box score

KU vs. ESU

Kansas University freshman forward Perry Ellis, who didn’t crack even the hint of a smile during his highly-productive major-college debut Tuesday night, insists he had a blast during the Jayhawks’ 88-54 exhibition rout of Emporia State in Allen Fieldhouse.

“I don’t really show much emotion, but I had a lot of fun out there, man,” the 6-foot-8, 225-pound Wichita Heights graduate said after scoring 15 points off 5-of-5 shooting and 5-of-7 free throwing and grabbing seven rebounds in just 16 minutes.

“I mean we’ve got guys on this team who have been working hard since the summer. It was a lot of fun. I’m just happy to be out there,” he added.

Ellis admits he was extra enthused playing his KU debut with his mom, Fonda, dad, Will, younger brothers Brae and Cameron, older sister, Savannah, AAU coach, Steve Young, and high school coach, Joe Auer, in the stands.

“It means a lot that my family gets to see me,” said Ellis, who scored eight points and grabbed six boards the first half in helping KU to a 42-21 lead. “It’s not too far (from Wichita). It’s a great feeling they came tonight to support me.”

While Fonda was proud of her oldest son — “great production I thought,” she said — she was not alarmed at his lack of emotion during the debut.

“He’s got that poker face. He’d be a good poker player,” she said while watching Perry sign autographs in the northwest tunnel after the contest.

KU coach Bill Self, who considered freshmen Landen Lucas (nine boards, six points, 12 minutes) and Rio Adams (two assists, one point, one steal, 10 minutes) as “best players for us per minute” also gave a thumbs-up to Ellis.

“I thought he did well. He scores the ball easy,” Self said. “He won’t always go 5-for-5. He has such a nice touch on the ball. I still think he can be a lot more aggressive. We blocked one shot tonight ... awful. If he can become aggressive as far as mindset, he could be a really good player really early in his career.”

Expanding on the aggressive mindset issue, Self added: “When you screen, screen hard. When you jump, jump as high as you can. When you go after balls, go with two hands. He’s playing so much harder than he probably ever has. He plays hard, that’s obvious. (But) you say, ‘Jump’ and he jumps higher after you yell at him, then he’s not jumping. That’s where a lot of our guys are. I don’t think they know they can just let it go. That’s not negative, just the way it is. Freshmen ... we had the same issue with (Brandon) Rush, (Mario) Chalmers, (Julian) Wright, the (Morris) twins. I just think he has so much more to give in impacting the game than what he thinks he can. I think he can be a really good player. We can’t sell out for him just being OK.”

Ellis knows he has work to do.

“Being aggressive is something you have to do in practice, work on going hard every possession on the court,” he said. “It’s something I have to work on in practice. You’ve got to have a tough mindset, work hard and do your best.”

Elijah Johnson had 12 points, Ben McLemore 11, including two off a spectacular put-back dunk, and Andrew White III 10 for the Jayhawks, who next meet Washburn at 7 p.m. Monday, in Allen.


ahpersecoachingexperience 8 years, 5 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

focojayhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

Yes!! Don't worry napoleon. I'm sure there's a babe out there for you. Peace out.

TexasHawk44 8 years, 5 months ago

Ellis shows really nice offensive skills. Given some time with Self, he is going to become a strong offensive player. Lucas looked good as well.

nostradavid 8 years, 5 months ago

Jayhawks next top scorer hard to predict? TOLDJA! (9 hours ago) "Watch out for Perry Ellis. He tore it up in Wichita. He will get a lot of shots off rebounds."

texashawk10 8 years, 5 months ago

Let's just see what happens once the season starts and EJ is playing 35 minutes per game and Perry is playing 25 minutes per game.

Steve Gantz 8 years, 5 months ago

Congrats, lets revisit your prediction when they play real competition!

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

"My name is nostradavid. I created my alias October 29,2012. I am a backcaster from the mystic Orient. I backcast that I am amassing serial aliases. I backcast that jackdavid will become nostradavid. I also backcast that plasticJhawk will become jackdavid, who will then become nostradavid. I also backcast that I was once conceptualized by Leonardo da Vinci and am listed in the same note book with the flying machine. I backcast that I was conceptualized by Leonardo, when he was trying to hustle an infrastructure deal on diking the Arno up stream to do water diversions for certain allies of the Medicis. Leonardo got cut out of the deal and then had to live with Mickey the B getting all the strokes for that lousy white statue of that big-handed bolo swinger from the Old Testament. I backcast these things and so many more. I backcast that one day my avatar will have a better hat. Time moves backwards. It is only an illusion that it moves forwards. I am nostradavid."

--from Thus Sprak nostradavid

nostradavid 8 years, 5 months ago

jaybate - Thy cup runneth over, and over, and over. I am amused. I have no other aliases before me. An apology to those you name is in order. I backcast not - I believe you have a backlash in your Zebco. My avatar's cap is from a time in the Elysian Fields of Lawrence, there can be none better. “did you ever wake up to find/ a day that broke up your mind/ destroying your notion of circular time?”

KUFan90 8 years, 5 months ago

Gee, maybe this kid should start. ; )

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 5 months ago

Can we safely say that his performance nullified most of the discussion yesterday surrounding Self's decision to start Traylor?

NebraskaJayhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

Um, no...

Because Traylor is everything that Self wants in a player. He likes "workers", not scorers. Do you need scorers? Of course... And Ellis will get there. But Self loves players like Traylor who are going to get you those extra posessions which he did several times during the game. Traylor was everything he was advertised to be and a mold of what Self wants his new players to develop into. Gotta have guys like Traylor and Releford on the floor early to set the tone for the game Self wants his team to play.

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 5 months ago

are you arguing that Self is going to continue to play Traylor, preferentially to Ellis? Are you arguing that Self started Traylor because Ellis isn't ready? Or are you simply saying that Traylor is good and will continue to play even even though Ellis is the star?

I don't want to downplay what Traylor brings to the table and say that he's not good enough, but he's not going to play preferentially to Ellis this year. Except when Self is having a teaching point with Ellis about what 100% effort looks like.

NebraskaJayhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

Your last statement is exactly what I'm saying. And until Ellis puts in the effort defensively and rebounding that Traylor is putting in, Traylor will continue to start over him. I could be wrong, but the discussion is not over as you are suggesting. Self loves players like Traylor. Like you, I believe Ellis has a HUGE ceiling. But he doesn't know what he's doing out there defensively yet I don't think.

Sportshooligan713 8 years, 5 months ago

While Traylor started they both ended up getting 16 min. As the season goes Ellis will only get more comfortable, more aggressive and better defensively. This team needs scorers injected into the offense with the lose of Tyshawn and TRob. McLemore and Ellis are perfect candidates.

When conference play roles around I think the front court will end up being something like Withey 27min, Ellis 24min, Young 18min, Traylor 11min.

texashawk10 8 years, 5 months ago

Traylor at his current skill level is the kind of player Self likes having come off the bench.

NebraskaJayhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

I disagree. I see Traylor as a Darnell Jackson. Self likes to start these players.

dylans 8 years, 5 months ago

scribbles next to her picture. distracted....

Andy Godwin 8 years, 5 months ago

Perry will become a starter sooner than later. Jeff may spend a lot of time on the bench if he does not pickup his game.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 5 months ago

Hardly anything worthwhile can be determined with such an inferior opponent.

But here are some things I'm comfortable speculating on after this game:

  1. Jamari Traylor may be fine as our 4th post guy. Again, opponent means a lot here. (As an aside, Traylor's ability to be the 4th post man may be the determining factor in whether Peters redshirts .. we'll see. Lucas isn't ready. Wesley is the same dude as last season).

  2. Andrew White will lead the team in 3 pt field goal percentage this season.

  3. Perry Ellis as freshman is better than Marcus Morris was as a freshman.

  4. Naadir Tharpe will struggle on defense all season. As jaybate said from day 1 .. short legs. Whatever it is, he'll struggle.

  5. EJ still ain't shy gunnin' it up from outside.

  6. McLemore is no Kenny Gregory. No worries there. His trajectory is skyward. He is every bit the real deal.

  7. Kevin Young will make everything look better. Ellis assumes the starting role sooner than later, KY off the bench in his natural role.

But my highlight of the evening was watching Rio Adams play defense. Terrific. Now I couldn't tell if he was adhering to proper spacing, etc. But purely in his man's jock, active, long, harassing, quick. I don't want to over do it here, but that was very impressive. I found myself just watching him when he was in the game. The guy can stick on defense, which could .. could .. give him a role. If he can dribble/handle the ball, Tharpe might be looking over his shoulder. Now the hair -- that's another thing ...

NebraskaJayhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

"Hardly anything worthwhile can be determined with such an inferior opponent."

This is true.

NebraskaJayhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

I agree with you about Adams and his intensive defense. I will say, however, that he won't get by hand checking in a regular season game the way he did last night. That will have to stop because they call that so close now days. But he definitely is a superb defender and I think you are right that Tharpe might be looking over his shoulder. I don't typically agree with everything in your posts, but thought this was a really good one.

HawkKlaw 8 years, 5 months ago

I noticed that too. I think Rio will get a lot of PF's early in his career until he can guard without all the hand-checking.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 5 months ago

Agreed .. I understood the rule to be that you can contact with one hand so it doesn't impede, etc., and that two hands was the automatic call. But very good point. He could get some quick calls there depending on the crew. I was impressed with how quickly he moved his feet, posture, intensity, etc.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 5 months ago

Jealous that your were at the game .. I about said "mezmerized" in my post but that was a bit dramatic. "Transfixed" is perfect. And as you said, the "intuitive knack" for defense is hard to teach. It is a beautiful thing.

RJ King 8 years, 5 months ago

Glad to have your recap of Rio's defense. I could only watch on Front Row which was low def to say the least, and kept freezing. Couldn't tell if Rio compared defensively to Mario, RussRob, TT, etc., or if it was a mirage. You validated what I thought I saw.

Steve Gantz 8 years, 5 months ago

Quite a list for someone who said you can't determine hardly anything worthwhile after one game!

wrwlumpy 8 years, 5 months ago

Lucas is good, but he needs the weight room..

mikehawk 8 years, 5 months ago

Wow! There are a bunch of young horses on this team, and two out of the mix are hurt and not even suited up. A long, long way to go, but you can see the potential. This is a key time for many of the young players because HCBS will narrow the rotation down more and more as league approaches, and what happens right now with the lights on, and in practice, will decide who is in the rotation. Eventually, there will be some good players spending a of time watching games from the bench hoping for mop up. That is just the way it is. With that said, the seniors better bring it because there are some young pups who want to be turned loose and they look hungry. Knowing the pure coach, part mad scientist, part psychologist, all "go for the juggler" coach Bill Self is, he has a huge smile going on in the back of his head somewhere as he surveys what he has on hand and what could develop over the course of this year and next. There are going to be some sobering moments and games in the next few weeks as the competition pick up. A great time for us KU basketball junkies.

KGphoto 8 years, 5 months ago

Easy now. That was one exhibition game against Emporia State. A glorified scrimmage. If I recall, Tharp was blowing up last year this time because TT and EJ were both out. We'll see what happens when Young gets back and we hit some quality opponents like Michigan St.

ku1otaku 8 years, 5 months ago

Agreed. Let's not get too carried away.

KUFan90 8 years, 5 months ago

No, I insist. I WILL get carried away.

Isn't that the right of me as a fan to be unrealistically excited about the prospects for the team?

I will not keep in mind the inferiority of the opponent.

I will believe this team will become one of the best defensive teams we've ever seen.

I will declare that Traylor will be waaay better than TRobb as a freshman.

I will believe this team will become one of the best offensive teams we've ever seen.

I will declare that I don't see a game this year we won't be favored to win.

I will project Tharpe as a lottery pick next year.

And I will absolutely be shocked and disappointed if any of my unrealistic expectations don't materialize.

KANSTUCKY 8 years, 5 months ago

Next thing you know you will be on 30 for 30 bidding on the first cowhide basketball... awesome.

RJ King 8 years, 5 months ago

You had me at, "no, I insist. I will get carried away." I nearly shot coffee through my nose with Tharpe as lottery pick. Funny.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

I am sick and tired of board rats doubting Tharpe will be a draft choice next April.

Steve Gantz 8 years, 5 months ago

Last year after the two exhibitions someone on here said Tharpe was the best guard at KU since JoJo! He may not be the best since TT.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Great post, wissox, alas you get the double bust award, because I made a similar conditioning of my post below. Forgive me. :-)

FarSideHawk 8 years, 5 months ago

With the length, athleticism, and depth on hand this year, the defensive ceiling of this team is unreal.

This team can be scary good defensively by January.

AsadZ 8 years, 5 months ago

I commented on length in another post. That's what caught my attention as it was my 1st time watching the kids play together. I mean we are long in the back court

HawkKlaw 8 years, 5 months ago

  1. This was my first time to watch Perry Ellis in live action and I was highly impressed. He made several difficult put-backs that showcased his athleticism and ability to score. He just needs to realize that this is his team as soon as he's ready to take over. I get goosebumps thinking about Ellis as a senior at KU. We have a 20/10 guy in the making.

  2. Jamari Traylor impressed me a lot too last night. He is an energy guy. He will be a good spark off the bench. I liken him to a Kevin Young type of player (with obviously a bit more bulk). Even if Peters takes a long time to return, I think Traylor will fill that backup PF role nicely.

  3. Rio Adams. Either go with the faux hawk or buzz it! The in-between looks strange. JK lol. (And if you want minutes this year, keep it up on the defensive end. That was a solid performance.)

  4. I think Naadir Tharpe is going to be fine this year. He had a 8 points and a 4:1 assist/turnover ratio in 17 minutes. Since being a facilitator is the reason why he is out there, I think he played his role nicely. I especially liked it when he and Elijah were on the court together. That was a great dynamic and it freed up EJ to be more of a scorer. Last night I could tell that Tharpe was a lot less nervous than when he was going up against UK in the non-conference game last year. Hopefully his confidence remains high when we start playing better opponents. Defensively, he does need work. But I think he will be more than adequate as a backup PG this season.

  5. BMac will be an absolute stud before it's all said and done (like there was any question about that).

All in all, a very solid performance last night against a very sub-par opponent.

KUFan90 8 years, 5 months ago

Like everything you said. Really like #1. But I should have added "Ellis will stay 4 years" to my tongue in cheek "unrealistic expectations" response.

HawkKlaw 8 years, 5 months ago

Thanks KUFan90.

One big reason why he may not stay 4 years at KU: Education is very important to him and he's already got college credits coming into his Freshman year, so he realistically could have a degree after his 3rd year. And he's obviously skilled enough to go pro after 2-3 years. That doesn't bode well for me ever seeing him as a senior (drats!).

But even as a Junior, I think there's a really good chance that he will be a 20/10 guy.

KEITHMILES05 8 years, 5 months ago

Interested in knowing why White has "White III" on his uniform? Is this a tribute to his grandfather? Nothing wrong with it but definitely not something you see.

KGphoto 8 years, 5 months ago

Really? Typically that means he's the third guy named Andrew in his family. A third generation Andrew. It's just his name, like Robert Griffin III. Andrew White the third. George Foreman the seventh (same generation)

KGphoto 8 years, 5 months ago

I thought maybe sarcasm of some sort, but couldn't piece it together. I would normally always give KEITHMILES the benefit of the doubt, but it seemed pretty straight forward. Hmmm.

KEITH can you confirm? LOL.

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 5 months ago

I remember one Acie Law IV who's jersey ready "LAW IV"

Though, that is the only time I remember seeing a JR, or III, etc. on the back of a jersey.

KUFan90 8 years, 5 months ago

I think the comment was not so much about the name, but about actually putting the "III" on the back of the jersey.

I don't remember...does RG3 have the "III" on his jersey?

yates33333 8 years, 5 months ago

This practice game proved nothing, zero. The offense look disorganized and played essentially an up and down the court game. The defense was slightly better organized but it too was essentially man on man and watch the other guy as well and try to steal his ball. Emporia State was terribly outclassed despite making some pretty good shots late in the game. The game was reminiscent of high school all-star games like MacDonald's with a slightly lower caliber of player.

Self has a bigger job this year than last year. If he pulls it off he certainly is the best coach in America right now.

John Boyle 8 years, 5 months ago

Thank you once again for your upbeat attitude. It is greatly appreciated.

By the way this is sarcasm.

yates33333 8 years, 5 months ago

Thank you for the explanation. You write so poorly I wasn't sure.

yates33333 8 years, 5 months ago

Although I read almost all of your posts I do not understand your initialisms or some references. What does PHOF mean?

BTW I like your paintings. I was surprised to see you are a white dude.

RJ King 8 years, 5 months ago

Poster Hall of Fame. What paintings? I was never invited to see Jaybate's etchings? May I???

yates33333 8 years, 5 months ago

Put "Jaybate blogs" in Google and you will find lots of his photographic paintings.

Curtis Stutz 8 years, 5 months ago

No doubt the team didn't run the offense well a lot of times and even made it look like a scrimmage from time to time, but the big thing is the talent is there as well as the experience. EJ, TRel and W will have the younger guys running the offense perfectly by halfway through the season. BMac showed some skills, Ellis and Traylor looked good, 'Rio's defensive hustle, Tharpe's shooting, lot to be happy about. It's also a little tougher on the guys to get into the flow with so many substitutions and EJ playing so little.

Sam Constance 8 years, 5 months ago

I love the fact that there are KU fans who still need evidence that Self is the best coach in America. :-)

Also, I'm not sure if it's accurate to declare this year's job harder than last year's. This year seems pretty standard in terms of college basketball coach expectations--a small group of highly-experienced seniors plus a bunch of high-expectation freshmen.

We've seen Self with team compositions similar to this before and he's been successful. I'm not guaranteeing anything about this season, but I don't know that it's some enormous question mark like you seem to be implying.

HawkKlaw 8 years, 5 months ago

I think he already proved he's the best coach in America right now by taking a team with no McDAA's to the Final Four and standing a chance against the pre-NBA roster of UK.

Reuben_J_Cogburn 8 years, 5 months ago

Gentlemen, and any Ladies I suppose,

We look good. I know it was Emporia State. But the combination of energy on defense, speed, athleticism and depth is scary.

And I did not realize the size we have. A lot of guys in that 6'6 - 6'8 range. I see a lot of matchup problems for opponents over the next couple of years.

I was never a "wait till basketball" KU fan, but I have to's damn good to see it here.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

"KU v. ESU: Swished, Missed, and Bricked"

Caveat Emptor: this was an exhibition game, so it doesn't mean much. Jeff Withey had a triple double in one of the exhibition games last year. EJ once looked very good as a freshman in an exhibition game, and then did not come around until the very end of his sophomore season.

Part 1


Swished--on ball and off ball defense is now unconsciously flawless; switching off to help Ben and Naadir was artful; under control on distribution; a good daddy to the green wood; , did a fine job of adapting to playing with both Naadir and AA, which is huge, because it means he can stay on the floor and run wing point, as well as point (which adds a huge dimension to our offense immediately on BenMac's off nights).

Missed--almost no penetration, but that was probably by design to get Jamari "JamTray" Traylor and Perry "The Designer" Ellis plenty of work; when to take trey ball still under construction (as it should be in his first season with foot heel and toeing on the accelerator/brake).

Bricked--horrible 2-8 trey shooting; needs a new Bullova with an alarm that says before class: stop chatting the hottie!


Swished--hops and shots; got on the glass on both ends; back door friendly.

Missed--possible pop tart chef in training; no steals; no clue yet where anyone else is going to be; mechanics on shot appear "Whole Foods" natural, which means he will be a great gun slinger until the opposing defenders start pushing him backwards and sideways, and then he is going to have to pay more attention to mechanics to re-sight and that could take awhile.

Bricked--fighting through screens; with those kind of hops, should see some blocks against D2 team.


Swished--can now glue in sleep; defense rock solid.

Missed--coaching staff appears to have decided to have him shoot the set shot (actually one with a little hop) on open looks from treyville in order to get some accuracy, but that means fewer opportunities and he still does not look comfortable; would like to see him penetrate, but that ain't gonna happen until JamTray and The Designer get about a month of work.

Bricked--2 pop tarts vs. D2 unacceptable for the team's Gunny.


Swished--efficient garbage scoring; no Pillsburys; 4 steals shows real anticipation on defense; only one foul; did I say no Pillsburys?

Missed--inefficient rebounding; no blocks vs. a D2 team suggests he's only 6-7.

Bricks--Nada, which is amazing for a green big.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Part 2


Swished--was he sick, or injured? in his defense, but only a little, maybe Self said cool it and let Traylor and Ellis find themselves; still 7 and 6 in 18 minutes works out to 14 and 12 in 36 on an off night against weak competition; so the big guy phoned one in and will probably get a lot more active shortly.

Missed--inefficient scoring, considering the competition weak offensive rebounding, and modest on the defensive glass.

Bricked--no angry dunking on D2 means no team buzz; no blocks vs. D2 basically unthinkable; could easily start coming off the bench were this to recur, but again, Self is probably trying to keep his lean, clean swat machine healthy and rested for the start of the regular season.


Swished--efficent scoring, efficient scoring, efficient scoring; no Pillsburys, got on the defensive glass; no TOs and a steal.

Missed--No blocks plus lack of a foul vs. a D1 team = lack of defensive intensity and so only 16 minutes.

Bricked--one offensive rebound against a bunch of D2 lightweights means no offensive rebounding intensity.


Swishes--if it were maker-takes, his shooting alone would make him a starter and EJ would play wing; sexy 4:1 Assist/TO ratio.

Misses--Free throws; no steals.

Bricks--don't let the length of this item seduce you into negativity; its like the defensive part of his brain just does not work and he's trying really hard; appears to lack what I call a defensive imagination (by this I mean the mind set of narrow vision of a predator stalking a prey, which is the opposite of wide vision for distribution on offense); right now Naadir is all technique (and that's an order of magnitude better than last year, when he didn't even know what he didn't know); my hunch here is Naadir has short legs, which magnifies his lack of a defensive imagination; but my other hunch is that his defensive imagination (i.e., the neural nets needed) are going to click some time this season; we saw something similar occur in Tyrel Reed after mid season his sophomore year; like Tyrel, Naadir will not develop into an adequate defender until probably next season; Self probably believes the neural net grow-in will compensate for the short leg syndrome; I do, too, but its going to be ugly until it does; Naadir gets indulgence here, because EJ apparently is going to be a streak shooter at best, and Naadir can shoot it now, and AA needs to concentrate totally on defense, or he comes apart.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Part 3


Swished--he was 2-4 from trey; got on the defensive glass very well.

Missed--his floor game was too awful to have any misses.

Bricked--one of the worst initial floor game performances by a supposed rotation player I can ever recall; 5 pop tarts effortlessly baked; seemed not only not to know where other players were, but not to know where he was; most easily picked player on the floor; no steals; and at 6-6 vs D2 dwarves nary a block, or a shot alteration; let's hope AW3 was worried about family in Hurricane Sandy and was badly effected by the full moon.


Swished--actual grown up defensive want-to and quickness stood out like sore thumb in relation to defense by Tharpe and AW3, but a good (not great) D1 offender will quickly expose some sketchy defensive fundamentals and have him fouled up in 4 minutes; one steal that was dumb luck (but dumb luck counts); no pop tarts.

Missed--see bricked.

Bricked--really bad all phases, except protection, so he could easily play a lot of minutes down stream in close games where KU is leading, or needs a stop, more than a trey, if (and only if) he just stops shooting, watches tapes on Brady feeding the post, and closes the gaps in his defensive fundamentals.


Swished--offensive rebounding, defensive rebounding; did I say rebounding; maybe our only natural rebounder; looked really comfortable on offense.

Missed--little conception of team defense inside.

Bricked--slow enough to get 3 PFs in 12 minutes against D2 players at the end of a blow out.


Swishes--17 minutes with only 1 PF and 1 Pillsbury; like Withey, seemed to be being asked to let the green wood get the touches, so was quiet on the glass and scoring.

Misses--regardless of orders, still too quiet on the glass and scoring.

Bricks--none, which bodes well for Justin; after the first month of trying to develop JamTray, The Designer, and Landen as much as possible, then Justin is likely to start seeing more back up minutes against the good teams, when Self has to start the designated fouling to make up for the lack of throw weight and muscle inside.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Part 4


~AA's defense gives reason for some hope in backup minutes at the 1 and 2, which is important, since Naadir's and AW3's p defense looked very sketchy. Still, the brevity of AA's play suggests that Self, at least, hopes for Naadir and AW3 to log the lion's share of time in back up.

~Self has clearly decided initially that Naadir is going to play in order to get his offense in the game. And the way Self is going to get Naadir in the game is by defensive switching from the beginning of the season. Normally, Self does not allow switching until conference, and spends the pre-conference forcing guys to learn how to fight through picks. But he apparently feels he needs not just Naadir's ball handling, but his trey gun, since it appears that EJ's trey gun remains a question mark, and streaky, if it ever comes around.

~I would also expect to see Self use some zone to keep Naadir in games, despite how much Self loathes zone, but I've said this every year and he has never done it. Still, EJ and Naadir present a very special case. And he was telegraphing by the switching defense that Self recognizes he is going to have to play green wood on the perimeter before it is really ready to play Self Defense.

~A lot of Naadir's and AA's future depends on how productive EJ can be as a scorer. If EJ can become an profficient scorer, then the tendency will be to need to bring in defense to give him a blow, and at the two, also which translates to AA filling more at 1 and 2. If EJ struggles in the role of scorer, then the need will be to bring in Naadir and AW3 at the 1 and 2 for scoring. This could get very interesting to watch.

~I anticipate Zach is out for at least half the season, more likely the entire season. And if he does make it back, he is likely to injure it again at least once.

~We aren't going to learn diddly squat about the big until SEMSU, and then only a little. But against MSU, I expect to see a lot of bigs play and foul a lot.

~This team has a very serious rebounding problem after Withey and Perry. Withey will get his 8-10. Perry can get 10-12 in 36 minutes, too. But after that it gets sketchy. Jamari is very athletic, and aggressive, and he can guard, but he appears to lack the rebounders sixth sense of anticipation, so I suspect he will be more of an 8 rpg in 36 minute type. Justin also lacks the rebounding gene. If Landen were quick enough and strong enough to guard the post without fouling, Self would be in clover on the boards. Landen seems the team's only natural rebounder. He's got the sixth sense about anticipation on both ends of the floor. But I just don't think he can stay on the floor and guard the post against conference level competition this season.

Sportshooligan713 8 years, 5 months ago

I almost totally agree with your assessment and posted something much shorter but to similar effect on Tom Keegan's article about Ben.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Part 5

~But oh, how I hope for Landen to have a Marcus kind of break through late in the season. I really liked Landen's offensive sense; not his scoring, but his sense of the flow, and timeliness of his picks and fluid motion. Landen is going to be a draft choice two years from now, maybe three.

~AW3's defense caused my hairline to recede. He's got the kind of awesome trey gun that makes a coach keep wanting to go to him, but, wow, did he look bad on defense. Self's seems seduced by the gun. Inference: AW3 probably just had an off-night.

~A lot of guys are going to have to come an awfully long way this season for this team to round out into a contender for a conference title, much less a run for a ring, but Self has had an amazing tendency to bring guys a long way in a season.

~Oddly, maybe the biggest question marks are EJ and Withey. Neither player displayed any of the dominance Self needs out of them to keep Self from having to put the team on either BenMac's, or Perry's impressive backs. This is worrisome, because BenMac appears no where near ready to carry a team, as BRush was as a freshman. And Perry, well, Perry could take over the scoring, but it would lead to a terrible brutalization of him once conference starts, one I am not sure even he is ready for.

~Oh, well, this the kind of problem solving that Self is often a savant at. Thank basketball god we have Self coaching this team, or I would really be worried. Self was very cheerful and positive through much of the lackadaisical defense last night. Ratso must be weighing heavy on his mind. I suspect the grind of serious getting better will not start until after the bloody encounter with Ratso. Until then, its all hands on deck at battle stations and no one in the brig.

Rock Chalk!

KANSTUCKY 8 years, 5 months ago

"Hey, where's Perry?" -Phineas and Ferb Welcome to AFH and enjoy your stay Mr. Ellis. RCJH

Sam Constance 8 years, 5 months ago

Cosign all the previous comments to the effect of this being a near impossible game to determine anything about the 2012-13 Kansas Jayhawks, given the opponent. However, I also agree with HEM that there are some nuggets of information that can be panned from the game. A few of my thoughts:

Perry Ellis I think I can see where the "deer in headlights" comment that everyone was talking about came from. He didn't look lost last night--maybe a bit throttled back in terms of intensity, which can result from being new and a little unsure that you are doing what you are supposed to be doing. But when he stopped thinking about it and just reacted, he looked very promising. He has an amazingly deft touch with the ball in a way that reminded me a little bit of the Morris twins after their freshman year. However, he needs more bulk, or his soft touch will be rendered moot by bigger, stronger opponents that could keep from even getting the ball near the rim. I am confident that Female Chuck Norris (aka Andrea Hudy) will get him going in the right direction. Final thought: I love his "poker face". As much as I liked watching the twins and their intensity, too often I would find myself cringing as they did some borderline attitude thing in game. It doesn't seem like that will be an issue with Ellis. I'm really looking forward to watching him develop.

Jamari Traylor Early front-runner for the Honorary Thom-nell Jack-inson All-Out Award. He's definitely raw, but he clearly possesses the athletic ability to wreak havoc out there. I agree with the comparisons between he and Robinson when it comes to body type and hustle, but Robinson had a much higher ceiling as a dynamic basketball player than Traylor does. I don't think Traylor will ever be capable of developing the kind of handles or shooting ability that Robinson did over his three years, but here's the thing: he doesn't need to develop either of those things to contribute to this team. We needed the "total package" from TRob last year because of our roster situation. We probably don't want that kind of unbalanced contribution from any person on this year's team, given that we have a much more versatile roster. As a "muscle/hustle" specialist, I think Traylor will hold his own quite well, even against the D-1 heavyweights like Michigan State.

(to be continued...)

Sam Constance 8 years, 5 months ago


Ben McLemore He has the look of a bonafide hoopster. I can see the comparisons to Brandon Rush, but consistency was always a pretty huge part of Rush's game, so the jury will have to remain out on the full-on comparisons between the two guards. As with everyone, the opponent will factor in, but he just has the LOOK of someone to whom the game comes naturally. He certainly has room to improve (I thought most of the team looked pretty undisciplined on defense last night), but with the right progress, he is a real threat to leave after two years (counting this year as his "first"). I would say that's more of a threat with him than any other player on the roster. Perry Ellis is a possibility for that as well, but he seems to have more area to grow before being ready for the League.

Andrew White III Like McLemore, this guy looks like he will be a player, but unlike McLemore, he looks a lot more raw, which is to be expected, I suppose. With those two guys, combined with EJ, we might be a pretty darn good perimeter shooting team this year. Of course, with freshmen, you never know, but it seems like we have more shooting talent in the backcourt on this year's team than we've had for awhile.

Naadir Tharpe He didn't do much last night to ease my fears that he isn't quite what we thought he was going to be when we saw him in last year's exhibition games, but I think part of that is a perception thing. The stats that HawkKlaw posted are a lot better than I thought they would be. I think the thing I'm most disappointed about is his defense--I really thought he would be able to become a hounding, relentless defender, and while it seems he has the will, he just lacks the means. I suppose we'll see as the season progresses. Anrio could potentially apply some pressure to push Naadir to get better, so that will be an interesting situation to watch.

Biggest Question How will we replace the insatiable drive and leadership that the Robinson/Taylor duo provided last year? I think EJ, Releford and Withey are all great, skilled players, but none of them strike me as the type to hoist the team up on their shoulders and carry them through a tough stretch or refuse to quit when things are the most bleak. EJ seems like the most likely person to grow into that role, but he's a little too "cool" for that role, if that makes sense. Don't get me wrong--I think this team can be highly successful even if we don't fully replace that toughness--there are a lot of recipes for success in college basketball. But this team will need to re-establish it's identity, which I expect to be somewhat divergent from last year's team identity.

wildjayhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

Hey, our football team is the worst in the nation but, we can all be proud of Kansas ST. team. Go Purple Cats.

texashawk10 8 years, 5 months ago

Who opened the troll's cage door and let it out today?

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

My name is wildjayhawk. I live in a KSU Xperimental barn and I am a cloning experiment. DARPA funded some research to see if sow belly cells could be cloned into a troll that verbally defecates on a KU site and then brags about how bad it smells. It worked. Each time I post here I turn this into a virtual EPA Toxic Dump site that can only be remediated by the superior intelligence of KU hoops fans. :-)

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Question: How do you tell the difference between a KSU troll and fecal matter from a KSU XPerimental animal?

Answer: One is a steaming turd at a keyboard. One is a steaming turd on a barn floor.

Ah, KSU jokes. What would the world be without them?

Tony Bandle 8 years, 5 months ago

What was accomplished last night:

1] We scored more points than they did. 2] Everybody who could, got to play. 3] The game established a "temporary potential" team base line. 4] No one got injured. 5] This exhibition game didn't count, but having a total of six that don't count, in the end, will count very much.

To read less into the game spells read more into the game spells fantasy.

Let's talk serious team analysis on the morning of November 14th.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

What the hell! How about sometime in April?!!!! :-)

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

I like the Numero Cinco by the way. Agreed.

RockChalk26 8 years, 5 months ago

Are there any highlights from the game?

clevelandjayhawker 8 years, 5 months ago

I just imagine the NC game with Traylor and BMac coming in instead of Connor and Wesely...

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

You have a remarkable capacity for devaluing reality and betting on the future.

I have some Iranian state-owned natural gas futures contracts for two years from now that I would very much like to sell you.


jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

"Some Alarming Truths about Inconsequential Things Related to Hurricane Sandy and Their Unexpected Connections to KU Basketball"

~Some skeptics will claim that Hurricane Sandy was generated by weather warfare technology in order to create an excuse to delay the elections, and hack away a bunch of voter records in voting machines manufactured by a company that Mitt Romney's son reputedly holds a significant stake in, but this will be exposed as patently false when crack investigative journalist Sizemore Hershey reveals that weather warfare technology was used instead too delay the elections and basketball season in order to let Kevin Young's hand heal.

~Over 600 mathematicians will state publicly that gas prices rising higher and faster in anticipation of Hurricane Sandy than they fall afterwards defy the laws of probability, as surely as Landen Lucas getting 3 fouls in 12 minutes against a D1 team defy the laws of probability.

~In a perfect world, there would not only be perfect storms like Hurricane Sandy, but also perfect man2man team defensive performances in exhibition games.

~Recruit Tyler Roberson will, after seeing the damage on the eastern seaboard resulting from Hurricane Sandy, call Bill Self and say, "Just tell me one thing, Coach, are there hurricanes in Kansas?" And Coach Self will reply, "No, Tyler, there are not, and tornadoes that can drive straws through telephone poles, so you just have to take your chances no matter where you go." Roberson said that Self was once again honest with him.

~Waters from the flooded New York subway system will seep into the gold vaults of the New York Federal Reserve and the gold paint on the reputedly fake tungsten cored bars there will be washed off and remind certain KU fans of how little last year's UK team actually looked like an amateur college basketball team.

~Inspired by New Jersey reputedly changing its name from "The Garden State" to "The Sand State," Kansas State University basketball Bruce Weber will announce that he has changed his name to "Bill Self," and will stage a mock burial of Bruce Weber in the spillway of Tuttle Creek reservoir.

~After witnessing the remarkably paradoxical phenomenon of the community of Rockaway Point burning to the ground during Hurricane Sandy and its catstrophic flood tides and torrential down pours, FEMA authorities in Kansas announce they have begun planning for hundreds of thousands of heat stroke victims this winter, at exactly the same moment that Bill Self begins preparations to play 2-3 zone when ever the team falls behind by ten points.

(Note: All fiction. No malice. Let's be good Americans and raise some money for these folks on the east coast, as we did for the people of New Orleans. It looks like they are going to need it.)

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Thought for the Day:

Those that think Perry Ellis sometimes looks like a deer caught in headlights, either have not narrowlly avoided hitting a deer in headlights, or do not grasp that a player of Perry's exceptional IQ is smart enough to understand the kind of violence he is headed toward in XTReme Muscle Ball, and is occasionally rightly reflective about it.

Sam Constance 8 years, 5 months ago

Isn't Bill Self one of "those"? I imagine he grasps quite about about his players...

Ellis looks like he's going to be a fantastic player, but he's still a freshman, and is going to have freshman-like moments from time to time. It's not a criticism of him so much as an understanding of his reality.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Ellis is going to be a pro.

Are we square? :-)

Sam Constance 8 years, 5 months ago

Well, certainly. I don't think there is any doubt. Well, not any "reasonable" doubt.


Jack Wilson 8 years, 5 months ago

marchphog88, Hawkklaw and jaybate and others .. your one stop shop for post-game analysis. Good stuff.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 5 months ago

Regarding the 2012-13 Kansas basketball team, there are two glasses on the table. One is filled with Kool-Aid and the other is filled with Prune Juice.

One tastes good and one is good for you. Which one do you chug?

This program is our passion...I vote for Kool-Aid.

How about you???

Alohahawk 8 years, 5 months ago

Very optimistic. Either way. No glass half full, or half empty. ;>)

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