Sunday, October 21, 2012

Prep F Tyler Roberson visits KU


Tyler Roberson, a 6-foot-8, 210-pound senior basketball small forward from Roselle (N.J.) Catholic High School, completed his official recruiting visit to Kansas University on Sunday.

The No. 30-rated player in the class of 2013 has also visited SMU and Syracuse and has upcoming trips planned to Villanova and Kentucky. His weekend host was red-shirt freshman Ben McLemore.

“Coach (Bill) Self talked to me about what my role would be if I decide to come to Kansas. He was just straightforward and he told me that I’d have to work hard if I come to Kansas,” Roberson told “Coach Self let me know that I’d have to work hard to earn playing time and he talked about what type of player I could become if I went to Kansas. The thing I liked most is how open and honest coach Self was when talking to me.”

Roberson is expected to sign with a school during the November signing period.


jayhawkrob 8 years, 11 months ago

I'm still holding out for Randle or Gordon but I like this kid. I was looking on the other day and saw that a lot of PF's and C's werent committed yet, besides that 7 footer do we have a shot at any of the remaining 5 star guys?

Ethan Berger 8 years, 11 months ago

I really want Embid after watching this video

We have plenty of 4s for the future and could use a true Center. He showed some really special qualities. A very quick spin move, decent ball handling and shooting. And of course good at blocking an dunking. However if we get Randle, Gordon or Roberson I wouldn't be upset either.

Alec White 8 years, 11 months ago

Yes Yes Yes. If it's true that his first organized game was in January, this kid has a chance to be special---like Jeff Withey with more bounce. I usually wouldn't get this hyped over a recruit who doesn't appear in many national rankings, but he can be the rim defender Self relies on to win ugly tourney games (Self's specialty). After Withy graduates, we need a defensive minded center and that's exactly what Embid provides.

Obviously, Randle and Gordon are the primary targets. But, strangely, I think we might need Embid even more (with some Hudy treatment). In another obscure view, I think it could help us recruit Randle by saying we have a defensive minded center that will be content to let Julius get the post touches on offense.

It might sound like a slick selling point, but unfortunately that's part of the game today. It's not how you can help the team's how Coach can best exploit the players' talents to the scouts. Embid could be a poor man's Withey while Randle replicates Robinson.

trustyourSelf 8 years, 11 months ago

Completely agree about Embiid. Believe it or not, I would rather have him than Roberson, Gordon, or even Randle. I see Gordon and Randle as being OAD's, which I am opposed to. Roberson would be great, but we have so much depth already at the 4 spot. We need a true center!! Come on JoJo

kellerman411 8 years, 11 months ago

We have depth at the 4? Warm bodies don't equal depth... I like Perry and Young can obviously play but I don't think Traylor is a true 4 and let's be honest, Peters and Lucas are long-term projects whether they are at the 4 or 5. This Roberson guy would be perfect. In my opinion, college basketball is moving away from the days of having a true center. I would rather have a couple 6'9 guys who can run.

Ethan Berger 8 years, 11 months ago

If Traylor can come in and really just get rebounds and be a bully, that is good for a bench guy. Lucas has some shot blocking skill, however still haven't seen enough of him to really know. Peters will be our offensive guy. Ellis isn't a one and done, so next year we will have Ellis who is a sophomore along with Traylor, Lucas, and Peters. If Ellis leaves at that point, then we still have those guys coming back as juniors and if Reed and Morningstar are any indication, then Those three guys will be just fine. (Unless you hated Brady then just think Reed). What Embid offers us is size and really special talent. However, if Embid keeps rising like he is, he might be a one and done.

Dirk Medema 8 years, 11 months ago

"Roberson would be great, but we have so much depth already at the 4 spot."

You apparently missed the sentence where he's called a SF/3.

ClydeTurnbuckle 8 years, 11 months ago

Except we can't get Randle and Embid because we wasted a scholie on Frank Mason. Or we have to pull something sketchy like making Landen Lucas transfer.

KGphoto 8 years, 11 months ago

It's not sketchy. It's blue-blood reality. Even Landon Lucas would understand that. It happens almost every year. Believe me, Bill Self will get the top guys fit into his schollie limit, and won't create big waves in the process. The guy is the best. I've never heard a player complain that Bill lied to them about their opportunity, even after they were squeezed out for a higher ranked player. I think he has them prepared for something like this. It's motivation, and it's the truth all in one.

texasjayhawk91 8 years, 11 months ago

Landen Lucas won't transfer..that'd be a big loss for us.

Eric Williams 8 years, 11 months ago

Lose: Elijah, Young, Withey, Releford (that opens up 4 spots)

We have verbals from: Mason, Greene, Frankamp, Selden

Remember these are 4 1-year scholarships, which means flexibility. I would put money that either McLemore leaves early and opens up a 5th spot or Wesley goes off scholarship. Or both and Self can make room for 2 more recruits without forcing someone to transfer.

DallasJay14 8 years, 11 months ago

I would love to get Gordon, but he is staying out west. I think it would great to this get Roberson but from all that I have read he is a home body. This might be a long shot because I think he stays at home and goes to Rutgers. With all that being said, I would love to get this kid.

RJ King 8 years, 11 months ago

I agree, Dallas. I see Gordon to Washington, Cal or 'Zona, Roberson to Syracuse or Rutgers, and Randle probably to Kentucky still. I watched Gordon in the AAU tourney in SoCal a couple months ago - he seemed to play for the ESPN highlight reel. (I know - they all did! But he stood out. GREAT player - he just doesn't scream Self ball.)

I'd be thrilled with Embiid because of the timing of projected graduations, red-shirts, potential 2 or 3AD's, readiness, etc. I want him!

At any rate - this seems to validate the recruiting theory that Self "tells it like it is" (regarding playing time, roles, etc.) I would rather eliminate the players right off the bat who have unrealistic expectation, or who do not fit our system and philosophy. We need to fight for the ones who do.

mojayhawk 8 years, 11 months ago

Agree with your last paragraph. Probably why we miss some OAD's. Coach doesn't blow smoke and give false promises. You want to play for Kansas? Work hard. You'll get to the League.

Ben Simonett 8 years, 11 months ago

Just like he told Perry Ellis he'd play on the wing?

Self's like any other coach, they all put a spin on their recruiting pitch.

Benz Junque 8 years, 11 months ago

Ellis probably will every now and then depending on the matchup. Put Withey, Traylor, Ellis, McLemore and Johnson out there and you have a handful matchup against any opponent.

duanep5ku 8 years, 11 months ago

I totally agree with Hawk90 I want Joel more then anybody else left on the list. I think were loaded at the 3 and four spot and we have plenty of 6;8,6;9 range. I wanted Seldon,check, number two on my wish list Joel Embiid . If we can get this kid,that would be way more important than the one and done crew.

ParisHawk 8 years, 11 months ago

It's amazing how much our attitude about Withey has changed in just one year.

Last year at this time we were just hoping he could hold his own and not foul out.

Now he's one of the two players we're most worried about replacing.

What other KU player has improved so spectacularly between his sophomore and junior years?

ParisHawk 8 years, 11 months ago

TRob's improvement was spectacular, but not as unexpected as Withey's.

Matt Kenton 8 years, 11 months ago

Morris twins went from solid players to lottery picks

Robin Smith 8 years, 11 months ago

Most of the players make such strident improvement that we forget where they started. That why I don't really heed much the chicken littles.

MartyrMangino 8 years, 11 months ago

Robin Smith to state something completely obvious followed by self righteous aggrandizing in 3..... 2..... 1....

Robin Smith 8 years, 11 months ago

Wow, to come to an article and find a comment harassing me by name -- I must be Important! Look at me now, Ma!

"Haters come around from downtown / I get surround sound - I get big!" -- Kool Keith

RJ King 8 years, 11 months ago

Sad when someone's hate for fellow posters exceeds their love for Kansas basketball. Everyone lock your puppies inside your house.

Luca Rossi 8 years, 11 months ago

Curious why nobody says much about this kid Jermaine Lawrence. Guy is pretty big, listed as 6'-9" & a five star recruit. KU has offered him too.

AsadZ 8 years, 11 months ago

Embid seems to be a project whereas Roberson is rated #30.

This is a no brainer to me.

There are lot of unknowns about development of Peters, Traylor & Landen and we all know about Wesley. Thus I see having a high quality Big that will impact the game as a need for next year and Roberson would fill it right away.

I hope we get this kid.

soapisurfriend 8 years, 11 months ago

Except that Roberson does not want to play the post. He had said several times he wants to go somewhere where he can play a face-up game from the wing. Embiid will be a top 50 guy before the end of his senior year and would be a far better fit.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 11 months ago

soap: You're right. There is info out there, though, where Self was telling him in a prior home visit about making him into a Marcus Morris type player. Perhaps the selling point is .. play the four in college. We'll get you regular face up opportunities like Marcus, you'll excel in our system .. then bam, you're a lottery pick that can play the 3 in the NBA? Maybe?

Ethan Berger 8 years, 11 months ago

Every indication is Embid will be top 50 when the next rankings come out.

REHawk 8 years, 11 months ago

JoJo, if you are reading these posts, you should well know, by now, that most rabid fans of this site feel that you might be a splendid recruit for 3 seasons of Jayhawk hoops. If you bear the patience and focus to make the most of KU coaching and training, you might well represent the final piece in the network which propels the program to Final Four prominence during your tenure in Lawrence. We've a lofty respect for shotblocking 7 footers!

clevelandjayhawker 8 years, 11 months ago

I always wonder what impact the weather has on these recruits, but then again it wasnt too great when Seldon declared.

KGphoto 8 years, 11 months ago

Weather was pretty nice inside AFH for Late Night.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 11 months ago

Myth #1: We are deep at the post positions.

Myth #2: We need a true center.

Myth #3: We know Embiid's potential, either short-term or long-term.

Myth #4: Our only chances for top post players are Randle, Gordon, Embiid, and Roberson.

Myth #5: We only have one more scholarship available.

Myth $6: Coach Self is completely honest with recruits.

Answer to Myth #1: When you have four of your five returning post players (for 2013), and they all are outside of the top 100 (or unranked), yes, you are deep -- in terms of bodies. But you are not deep in terms of talent. We have only one quality player returning, Ellis. It is TBD on all the rest. Please, trustyourSelf .. see kellerman411for some guidance.

Answer to Myth #2: While it might be optimal, Self can win without a true center in the lineup. Very simple. See 2008. He can win with to 4s. Heck, I bet he could win with one 4 and the rest perimeter players like MU did last season .. say, Selden, McLemore, Greene, White, Ellis? Could see some of that. Remember how hard it was for us to match up with MU.

Answer to Myth #3: None of us really know on such an unknown. But, chances are, he's a project. Chances are, no help in the first year and maybe spotty duty in year two. With all this talent, don't we need another top big to try to cash in what appears to be a very deep team starting in 2013? Of course, Embiid really could be a freak and make a major impact from day one. We don't want to be on that. I like developing him, if we have another top big in this class.

Answer to Myth #4: See RockkChalkk above. Jermaine Lawrence. The other add to that story line is that he has now said he will visit Kansas. That's big news.

Answer to Myth #5: Technically .. but say we add Embiid to get to 5. It is a near certainty that if Randle, or Gordon, or Lawrence want to come, we'd have room. It is magic.

Answer to Myth #6: As bennybob said -- "spin." You can be honest, and spin. But we need that from Coach Self. How else do we gain depth? Perhaps he suggests that he sees a recruit competing for time, compliments his skills, says he matches up favorably to the players he now has, that he could see him beating out certain players, compares him to other KU starters of the past, tells him he has the necessary skills, etc. All true, right? But all along, Self could really know it's a long shot. We would not have signed Milton Doyle or Merv Lindsay without "spin." Honest, technically. Completely honest, uh, no. I am interested to hear if someone really doubts that. With Roberson or a top guy like him, I'm sure no spin is really necessary. But with a Mason, or Doyle, or Anderson, or Lindsay -- guys recruited for depth (wink, wink) -- spin has to be king.

clevelandjayhawker 8 years, 11 months ago

I still like to think that if we get another big or two that Perry could play the three, although it may not be much time; We did this with Marcus a couple years ago sparingly if I remember correctly, it casued match up problems, but didnt give our bigs a breather like they needed.

Love the idea of our lineup having one or two 4s and the rest gaurds. White, seldon, BMac are all tall enough and quick enough to throw cause some match up problems.

PS. Please fix the "$" on myth #6, it just rubs me the wrong way when I see it. Great post!

Tony Bandle 8 years, 11 months ago

Could you tone it down just a tad....your presentation is overshadowing for premise.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 11 months ago

Sorry..make that "your" premise, but I'm guessing the other posters knew what I was saying.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 11 months ago

You start a response with a random number or punctiation mark, the font explodes....kind of like Krisite Allie at an all-you-can-eat buffet!!

Luca Rossi 8 years, 11 months ago

When you start your post with a number, the font is changed.

RJ King 8 years, 11 months ago

It's very simple:

1) Don't end your sentences with a preposition.

2) And don't begin your posts with a number

Joel Thomas 8 years, 11 months ago

If you start your post with a number or character, your post will be in large font.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 11 months ago

Phog: Hard to argue with big font.

  1. Sorry, I respectfully think that you miss it here. Lucas and Traylor were afterthoughts recruiting. They were guys we got, when Self missed on his higher targets. This seems like a basic concept. You still say "picked by Self", as if he said .. this guy is special, I'll skip the other guys. Of course other programs offer .. there is a term called "depth." To protect against an emergency. A Merv Lindsay. I was referring to quality. Peters is a different story because he was clearly targeted early and early returns were positive. So if we have Ellis and I"ll give you Peters, that's two ... not enough.

  2. So you point to 2011-12. My point was just that Self doesn't have to have a true center. Kaun hardly played vs. Carolina. He can win without the true center. But your point is a good one on Kaun. Would I rather have a true center? Maybe.

  3. You're right on Embiid. I want him too. But I want him AND a more proven big.

  4. The visit is big. The visit likely means he has interest. It allows us to sell KU.

  5. Ok.

  6. Agreed .. Self has the kind of "character" we can be proud of. See also Trevor Lacey's quotes about Self's honesty.

Ethan Berger 8 years, 11 months ago

  1. Here is the way I'm seeing it. Ellis will be a two year player minimum. What that means is we don't really "need" a big time scoring talent. From what I've heard is Traylor is doing very good in practice. If Traylor can come in and get boards and be a bully, then That would be good enough. I think Peters will be good down the rode. Has offensive talent and is a big guy. Don't really know a lot about Lucas. However, if our past is any indication Self can take 3 star players and make them good contributors by year two but most likely three.

  2. True we don't need a true center, at the same time I wouldn't consider Kaun a 4. He was pretty close to a true center.

  3. True we don't know, it would be more of a risk. But usually with these guys you see great shot blocking and dunking. This is the first time i've seen one who could dribble good enough, shoot good enough and was very quick.

  4. No counter there.

  5. I sure hope you're right.

  6. I agree once again.

My point is if we could get Embid and a highly ranked 4, then that is the best possible situation. However, if we had to choose I personally would go with Joel, but if Self decided to get one of those 4s, then I don't see it as a bad situation at all. More like personal preference.

kellerman411 8 years, 11 months ago

Ellis is a two year minimum? Yeah, make that a 4 year minimum. Ellis will never jump to the league early while playing PF. In my opinion, Ellis will never play PF in the NBA period. I've been wrong before and I hope he proves me wrong but I just don't think he has the size to bang down low in the league. I wish Self was playing him at the 3, he would murder opposing guards.

Ethan Berger 8 years, 11 months ago

You could very much be right. Point was we have a starter for 2013 at pf, a starter at C is all we would be needing.

texashawk10 8 years, 11 months ago

Ellis will be a 3 year player minimum. Ellis will graduate in 3 years at KU and if he is a lottery prospect like most think he'll be at that point, he'll probably go pro then. As for playing people like him at the 3 in college, never going to happen under Self because it creates too big of a liability on defense. A 6'8" 220-225 lb. guy chasing a 6'5" 200 lb. guy around the court is going to end poorly for the bigger guy on defense every time.

soapisurfriend 8 years, 11 months ago

This is interesting. I would like for that to be the case. Even if Roberson's career mirrored the Kansas career of Mc. Morris (he plays the post two seasons and a "hybrid" face-up type game year three). Unfortunately, I think it may be a tough selling point because Marcus is having such a hard time sticking with the Rockets without a defined position. In addition, to one of your points below: I am as big a fan of Embiid as anyone. But you're right, his addition would be much better if it came along the side of another top big in 2013.

soapisurfriend 8 years, 11 months ago

Sorry, this was supposed to be in response to HEM's post earlier.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 11 months ago

Good point on Morris' career path now (it's early) .. but he did get the guaranteed, set for life, contract. Not a bad selling point.

NJHAWK 8 years, 11 months ago

You are misjudging MM's position problems at Houston. It has nothing to do with Marcus's game or position. Unfortunately, he is playing for a clueless coach.

Curtis Stutz 8 years, 11 months ago

I still completely disagree with HEM's assertion that Ellis and Roberson gives Self the same kind of size as Arthur and Jackson or the Morris twins, both those frontcourts had a lot more muscle to them. Just want to make that clear. Obviously I'll still be happy to see Roberson pick KU if he does, he's a talented player, I just don't see Ellis and Roberson starting together up front. Need somebody stronger on the block defensively.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 11 months ago

  • infinity...crap, if I could type, I'd be dangerous!!

RJ King 8 years, 11 months ago

It's also why we fall so in love with the ones who choose to come here, stick it out, and end up giving senior night speeches. Quality players like Kaun, D-Block, Tyshawn, Sherron, Releford, EJ . . . 4 and 5 star players who could've gone elsewhere.

Joe Baker 8 years, 11 months ago

Yeah- I read between the lines on this statement. "... The thing I liked most is how open and honest coach Self was when talking to me.”

Andrew Holmes 8 years, 11 months ago

Am I missing something about the scholarship situation for next year? Are we counting the scholarship that Justin is using right now? I might be wrong, but if Justin goes back to being a walk-on that would add one more scholarship to pick up both Embiid and Roberson or any other big. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the case?

Ethan Berger 8 years, 11 months ago

For some reason I really don't see Justin being pulled of schollie unless he volunteers. I remember we said the same thing about Morningstar and he stayed on. I see a similar situation.

dylans 8 years, 11 months ago

Justin had his scholarship pulled for Doyle, but it was given back after Doyle quit.

Andrew Holmes 8 years, 11 months ago

So then a similar situation could be seen for next year. Justin gets taken off scholarship and Keith Langford pays for his school and we have an extra schollie to give to another big. I guess we will have to wait and see who wants to commit and what Self will do with the scholarship situation.

Ethan Berger 8 years, 11 months ago

I did not know that. Well never mind then.

Vernon Riggs 8 years, 11 months ago

HEM is stating that if Randle or Gordon wanted to come to Kansas after Embiid already committed that HCBS would find another scholarship but asking someone to leave the program or have one the scholarship player pay their own way. Frankamp and Ellis would have in-state tutition. Ellis might qualifly for a academic scholarship with his grades. Randle is an OAD. Randle's scholarship would/should open up the following year.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 11 months ago

lonestar: Technically, yes .. but I don't see Self telling a kid "Hey, you're done". I think it goes more like this (posted in June during the Doyle stuff):

Here's how the conversation might have gone with Lindsay (perhaps a Doyle preview): Merv: Coach, you wanted to see me?

Self: Yea. Just wanted to talk about your future at KU.

Merv. I like it here. Can't wait for next season.

Self: Merv, you know I am honest. I want to let players know what I see as their roles on the team.

Merv: Right, I get that.

Self: Well, we have Releford at the 3, Andrew White coming in this next season, then Brannen Greene the next. Both are 3s that can play some 2.

Merv: I know that.

Self: And we'll be recruiting other guys there .. top rated guys.

Merv: So what are you saying?

Self: I'm saying that I don't foresee significant playing time for you in the next two seasons.

Merv: But if I work hard, I can beat them out.

Self: You could, but I'm talking probabilities here. I want to be fair to you. This is about you, and your future. You only have one future. Those two guys coming in are real talented, highly thought of players that can play now. Is it fair for you to be in that position, fighting in-coming players every season for playing time?

Merv: So you think it's not fair to me to stay, or that you want me to go?

Self: You are free to stay, and to be on the team. I like you. I don't want you to go. But I have a bigger responsibility than this team. I am responsible for each of you. And I just don't see any real playing time. You want me to be honest with you, right? And that's why you came here. To play. You deserve that.

Merv: You're right, I want to play. But what has changed since I signed and you told me I could compete to play?

Self: Andrew White and Brennan Greene. Those two weren't committed. You know, that's how this works. We recruit every year. We might have gotten kids that you would have stacked up better against. Look, I'd probably want you to redshirt this coming season anyway. So you'd sit out a year.

Merv: And I'd sit out a year if I would transfer, is that what you're saying?

Self: What I mean is that you wouldn't lose any time by transferring, vs. if you stayed. But this is your decision. What is best for you. Not KU, but you.

Merv: Ok .. I'll think about.

Self: Oh, and you might talk to Joe (Dooley) .. he can discuss with you more in depth the situation. He might be a bit blunt, but you need to hear from him. It's something that has to be figured out here pretty soon .. you wouldn't want to miss the opportunity to land at the right place if that's your choice.

Merv: Ok, thanks.

Self: Joe's in the hall.

I don't know. Seems a very plausible way of opening a scholarship.

702Hawk 8 years, 11 months ago

Or HCBS said to Merv during his recruiting, "You still need a place to play and we have a position that you can fill. I am not promising you playing time but instead training time. Go against the best everyday workout hard with Hudy and you'll become a good D-1 player. Then at the end of the season we will see if you made the cut for the future years and if not we will get you on the best team that can display your talents."

All these kids that transfer seem to leave KU with a love for the Jayhawks. This wouldn't be the case if they got booted from the team.

It really is a great deal for them. A year of training, a chance to prove they can make it, if not Self will get them on another great team. Plus a random chance for a national champ ring and an almost guaranty big 12 ring. Lets face it, everyone loves diamonds.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 11 months ago

Right .. I'm suggesting that Self can spin it exactly as above. It's all about the kid.

But I'm not discounting your scenario at all. Seems plausible.

Curtis Stutz 8 years, 11 months ago

Agree with both, you have to have a conversation, but guys that come in not ranked very high have seen other players leave KU for similar reasons and aren't unaware it might be in their best interest. In the case of some I don't think Self brings it up, Doyle left on his own, chances are Galindo left on his own seeing who the newcomers would be. Others Self might have felt the need to bring it to their attention that playing time would be very difficult to come by, but in general I think the players know where they stand. RussRob almost left, wouldn't have been because Self tried to steer him that way, would have been 'cause he was struggling, wasn't happy, saw guys like Chalmers coming onto the team. Self obviously still wanted him, but we could have seen him transfer and then people would have wondered if Self had brought up the idea, which wouldn't have been the case.

dylans 8 years, 11 months ago

2013-- 4 scholarships used Greene, Selden, Frankamp, and Frank; 5 scholarships available Doyle, Wesley, Withey, EJ, Young, Releford; 13 total available scholarships--- 2013 freshmen 5 sophomores 5 (White, Ellis, Peters, Lucas, Adams) rs sophomores 2 (Traylor, McLemore) junior 1 (Tharpe)

Tony Bandle 8 years, 11 months ago

Actually, BenMac and Semi are technically Redshirt Freshmen. Add Jo Jo. Possible schollie flex could be BenMac OAD, transfers Lucas or Adams, decommits, Mason.

Vernon Riggs 8 years, 11 months ago

I know the Marquette Asst Coach that is recruiting Embiid. He was there the day after ESPN's 30 For 30 'No Place Like Home'. Embiid is a very strong KU Lean. He met with the Marquette Coach and tweeted about Jayhawk history. A good sign for Kansas.

Andrew Holmes 8 years, 11 months ago

If I'm looking at everything correctly then the scholarship breakdown for this year and next looks like this:

2012-2013 Scholarship Players- 13 Total Seniors- Withey, EJ, Releford, Young (4) Juniors- Wesley (1) Sophomores- Tharpe (1) Freshmen- Rio, White, McLemore, Traylor, Peters, Lucas, Ellis (7)

2013-2014 Scholarship Players- 13 Total Seniors- Wesley (1) Juniors- Tharpe (1) Sophomores- Rio, White, McLemore, Traylor, Peters, Lucas, Ellis (7) Freshmen- Frankamp, Greene, Frank, Seldon (4)

With only 13 available scholarships in a given year, I'm not even seeing a scholarship available for Embiid in this breakdown. Can someone explain? Is Frank Mason going to walk-on? Or are people assuming that we will lose McLemore to the NBA? I'm just not seeing it right now.

KGphoto 8 years, 11 months ago

Wesley is a flex. Langford will pay his way. I'm guessing Mason might get the Doyle treatment if we can land one of the others.

KGphoto 8 years, 11 months ago

Jermaine Lawrence! Come on down, it was meant to be!

Can you imagine the noise when this kid gets announced in AFH.

"At power forward, 6'9" from SPARTA, NJ...... Jermaine LAAAAAAWWWWWRRRRRRENNNNNNNNNNNNNNCE!!!!

Yes please.

Robin Smith 8 years, 11 months ago

It's gotta happen. To see Lawrence on the back with Kansas on the front -- picture perfect.

MartyrMangino 8 years, 11 months ago

This profile's only purpose is to add self-righteous spam, void of substance. I suggest this profile be taken down.

Robin Smith 8 years, 11 months ago

Ironic. It honestly reads like you're indicating yourself, which would make sense. (I gave you the thumbs up for amusing me)

You might consider editing your post so that it's clear you mean me.

RJ King 8 years, 11 months ago

"I gave you the thumbs up for amusing me"

Thanks for including that information, Robin. I had an ugly visual of little Marty simultaneously liking himself with each hand.

RJ King 8 years, 11 months ago

Perché l'odio, auto-professi stallone italiano?

Robin Smith 8 years, 11 months ago

You may want to ignore them BayHawkaholic lest they should fixate on you too.

MartyrMangino 8 years, 11 months ago

@ilbastardo Dio li fa, poi li accoppia... E vero?

JayHok 8 years, 11 months ago

Calipari's system works like clockwork (now) because the marketing reached an apex after his first year at Kentucky. That first year at UK was key for him. No matter how many illegal/unethical things he did at previous stops, he would have to figure out a way to bring one of the best recruiting classes in the history of basketball for that first season otherwise Calipari's plan of dominating top 10 recruits for a decade falls completely apart. For the first time in his career, Calipari had a compliance office at UK that was rocked recently enough for paying recruits (Sutton) that he had to get truly creative. UK still had very average players when Calipari took over and the Kentucky label was very average since 1998. The only option for Calipari was to use a secret out-clause designed by Calipari himself in Memphis recruiting class's letter's of intent. Without this out-clause that year, I repeat without this specially formulated out clause, and without the terrible compliance departments at previous stops, Calipari would have never achieved anything close to what he's achieved currently with 5 #1 recruiting classes in a row. I just want to hear one, just one, Kentucky fan admit it: Calipari's amazing Kentucky market was created nearly entirely by Memphis's sloppy compliance office and Calipari taking advantage of that while bringing those recruits with him to Kentucky the first year. If anyone has ever heard Cousins talk about his recruitment at Memphis that will open your eyes. Every rule in the book was broken to get Cousins to sign with Memphis. Conviently it was never Calipari doing the manipulating and rule breaking. It was his assistants.

Last example of the day. The money poured into the new Kentucky players' luxury penthouse dorms. They can thank the Calipari no-rules for anybody Memphis experience for that. The 2012 court from the final 4 the current UK team now practices on. They can thank the compliance office at Memphis. The fact that Calipari doesn't even have to call recruits anymore. They can thank Memphis.

Robin Smith 8 years, 11 months ago

Can you elaborate on the out-clause, the compliance departments, and about Cousins' recruitment?

RJ King 8 years, 11 months ago

echo robin. This is very interesting conceptually, but cryptic. Can you explain with specifics?

HawkKlaw 8 years, 11 months ago

“Coach Self let me know that I’d have to work hard to earn playing time and he talked about what type of player I could become if I went to Kansas. The thing I liked most is how open and honest coach Self was when talking to me.”

I don't care how many recruits Coach Self misses out on - I love this about him. He doesn't appeal to the rock star ego of top-ranked recruits. He tells them what he tells everyone else - that it will not be a cake-walk if they choose to play at Kansas. It takes a special player to want to work hard and earn his place on the roster over the course of 2-4 years. Those are the kinds of players that Bill Self looks for and the type that he's had a lot of success with at KU. Sure, he'd love to get the highly-ranked one-year mega-talents (wouldn't we all?), but he's not concerned with the guys that decide to go to Kentucky because they want to hang out with rap stars. I can't blame him.

Alex Peekeaton 8 years, 11 months ago

who goes to Kentucky to hang out with rock stars? Harrison Twins? James Young? Anthony Davis? Kidd-Gilchrest? I thought they went to Kentucky to play their preferred style of basketball and reach their dream on getting to the NBA whether it's in one year or more...

RJ King 8 years, 11 months ago

Who goes on the websites of other teams to hang out with their fans???

Alex Peekeaton 8 years, 11 months ago

Who has a website that constantly talks about another college and their coach???

Robin Smith 8 years, 11 months ago

A: the school that has such a great (and award-winning) website that there are many people on it constantly talking about all things related to college hoops.

HawkKlaw 8 years, 11 months ago

Well, one of Calipari's selling points is that he has Jay-Z on speed dial, so probably several of those names that you mentioned.

There's nothing immoral about that mentality, it's just not the way Bill Self does things. I like that about him.

Steve Gantz 8 years, 11 months ago

Things worked out well for our first TRob, so why not bring in another as TylerROBerson would be!

JayHok 8 years, 11 months ago

Robin, I don't have a lot of time today to get into all the details. I'll check back later tonight to see if anyone else has done the footwork on those two questions. If they havent I'll try to give a more thorough explanation. In short what transpired when Calipari left Memphis is akin to Anthony Davis's dad being found guilty of taking $200,000 from a UK employee as was reported by a Chicago paper. 3 college coaches admitted Davis was asking for money. Now let's say the NCAA actually followed through with an invesigation and found that Calipari's lead UK assistant or Wes, Calipari's best friend, had paid Davis the said $200K. UK gets rocked, 38 victories taken off their books, and put on probation. Then, since this is at least partially fiction at this point, let's say Coach K dies. Calipari then accepts the Duke job and takes his #1 recruiting class to Duke. And the market and the hype follows him and his recruiting for the next decade. Ironically UK was very smart when Calipari came. They removed any possibility for an out clause and the NCAA quickly followed. It was called the Calipari rule.

But the question is. Let's say the Calipari rule is still legal. Let's say the above events transpire. How would Kentucky fans feel about the situation?

Robin Smith 8 years, 11 months ago

Thanks for the brief yet enlightening response (although you actually gave a pretty thorough explanation).

So the out-clause made it easy (and impossible for the University to stop) for a recruit to renege on his LOI because the coach left, which was highly convenient for Calipari who knew it was likely and had to have that in his back pocket to insure continued success.

And it was the compliance department who allowed that shoddy kind of deal to get approval?

Is the NCAA so scared of bad PR that they won't actually pursue the people who have exploited them to the point of embarrassingly undercutting their shaky premise of amateurism?

Alex Peekeaton 8 years, 11 months ago

"Anthony Davis' dad being found guilty of taking $200,000 from a UK employee as was reported by a Chicago paper"...

Who found Davis' dad guilty of taking $200K? NCAA? Do you have a link? I didn't realize he was found guilty of the accusation...

Joel Thomas 8 years, 11 months ago

He didn't say Anthony Davis or anyone in Anthony Davis's family was found guilty. You might want to re-read his post.

RJ King 8 years, 11 months ago

Are you referring to the "out clause" that allows a recruit to de-committ due to a coaching change? (Like how we got Tyshawn and the Morri?)

Or is there a different "out clause" that has to do with de-committing because of possible program violations or sanctions?

And, are you talking about literal text in the LOI, or are you just saying that folks looked the other way?

RJ King 8 years, 11 months ago

JayHok - This is what i found. I think i get it now.

"The "Calipari Rule" is the rule by the National Letter of Intent program that forbids side deals like Memphis (among others) was willing to grant their players -- i.e. a separate agreement between the school and the player where the school agreed to cancel the NLOI if the coach left, or was fired. The term "Calipari Rule" was apparently coined by Moondog Sports.

The "amendments" (actually separate agreements since the NLI program is explicit about what signing an NLI means, and has been before now) were being put in place in order to entice players to sign a letter of intent by promising (in writing) to release them from it if the coach left or was fired.

The amendments essentially rendered the NLI something it was not intended to be. The letter of intent is supposed to protect the school, but some players (notably DeMarcus Cousins with UAB) had refused to sign letters of intent unless the school would agree to release him if the coach left or was fired. UAB, to their credit, refused to compromise the intent of the NLI program. Memphis had no such compunctions.

To what extent Calipari was actually complicit in this arrangement is something we do not know. A coach has no authority to release players from an NLI -- that has to be done by the school, and understandably so, since the NLI program was created to prevent athlete defections due to coaching changes or other outside influences. The schools have always retained the right to release players, and most often they do (but not always by any means).

The NLI program was being sabotaged by the very schools it was designed to protect, and even though there are tons of good reasons not to enforce NLI provisions as a matter of course when players want to leave, there are also times when enforcement makes sense.

At the end of the day, to Calipari's critics, this is a fair example of envelope-pushing. There is no doubt that R.C. Johnson didn't just unilaterally decide to modify the NLI program to gain advantage in recruiting (which ultimately came back to bite him in the hind parts -- see Xavier Henry and Dennis, Nolan) -- Calipari undoubtedly was a significant part of that decision, absent other information.

But let's be honest, loopholes exist to be exploited, and if the NLI program was unable to crack down on this issue previously, they have now remedied that situation."

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 11 months ago

I personally think that it's crazy to not allow a student athlete to leave one institution to compete for another one following a coaching change.

As long as the NCAA is using this facade of amateurism of student athletes, students should be able to be released from their commitment because of coaching changes. The student commits to the university almost exclusively based on contacts made with the coaching staff. Most of these students reference that their relationship with the coach was the primary factor in choosing the school.

I understand that the institution has certain rights to deny the student a release from a LOI, and I am not entirely opposed to that. The school does need to be assured that a committment is binding. Especially before a student has enrolled at the school. This is good for the school in that it allows the school to get the students processed and ready to enroll and it give the NCAA more time and clarity regarding getting students cleared for participation.

My final thoughts on this subject is that the NCAA should have a standard for what the LOI means, and no school should be allowed to change that or add any clauses to the LOI. It should mean the same thing if a student signs an LOI to Kentucky, Kansas, Memphis, or Pepperdine. And no student should denied the opportunity to transfer if the coach who handled his/her recruitment has moved on.

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