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Kansas running back Tony Pierson is yanked down by the collar by Kansas State defensive end Adam Davis during the first quarter on Saturday, Oct. 6, 2012 at Bill Snyder Family Stadium in Manhattan.
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Kansas running back Tony Pierson is yanked down by the collar by Kansas State defensive end Adam Davis during the first quarter on Saturday, Oct. 6, 2012 at Bill Snyder Family Stadium in Manhattan.
Kansas University football coach Charlie Weis claims he’s just like everybody else. He feels better after wins than he does after losses.
That’s why, following Saturday’s 56-16 stinker in Manhattan, Weis hunkered down in his office at the Anderson Family Football Complex and did not leave for six hours.
“The worse it is, the harder I work,” Weis said.
KU’s first-year head coach spent the majority of that time between 5 and 11 p.m. Saturday reliving the loss that dropped his Jayhawks to 1-4 overall and 0-2 in Big 12 play. He watched the game film two times through, each time breaking it down into offensive clips, defensive clips and special-teams clips.
“Normally, I wait ’til Sunday morning to do that,” Weis said. “But I didn’t want to wait ’til Sunday morning because I wanted to see, in detail, what happened.”
What he saw was not much different than he expected — too many mistakes on offense, too many breakdowns on defense and too much talent on the other sideline.
During Saturday’s postgame meeting with the media, Weis told reporters that the status quo would not be accepted. Sunday, he proved that was not just lip service by the way he ran practice. Instead of going through the normal load of film and field work, Weis watched the game tape with the entire team and then switched things up.
“I took everyone that’s gonna be on the team next year, and they practiced,” Weis said. “And anyone that’s not gonna be on the team next year, they ran and lifted.”
Weis told his team exactly what he was doing and why he was doing it, and it was development, not punishment, that he sought with the change of pace.
“You have to do two things here,” he said. “You have to develop your current squad, but you also have to develop your future squad. If you practice everyone who played all the reps in the game (Saturday), then you’re never developing anyone else.”
Included in that idea of dual development is the concept of how to handle the players who are eligible to red-shirt this season. Normally, Weis and his coaches have a pretty good handle on how that will play out after a just few games. But with the way things have gone so far, he ruled nothing out.
“We talk on a weekly basis,” Weis said. “It’s Week 5, but if we believe that Player X can help us for seven games, seven games is a lot of games now. So it’s still not too late to go ahead and get that player into the mix.”
Weis said he would make certain a player did not burn a year for what could be deemed “insignificant playing time.”
As for the overall rebuilding race, Weis said the Jayhawks had cleared the first hurdle of being in each game at halftime.
“Now we have to come up with a better way to get through the last 30 minutes,” he said. “It’d be easy for me to just say, ‘The players gotta do this, and the players gotta do that,’ but because the players haven’t done it now for multiple years, we, as a coaching staff, have to guide ’em through that, and that’s what I’ll continue to do until I get this thing figured out.”
Pierson just fine
There was some good news for the Jayhawks this weekend. Weis learned Sunday that sophomore tailback Tony Pierson was not expected to miss any time because of an injured elbow that kept him out of the final three quarters Saturday.
“The X-ray was negative,” Weis said. “Now, he had a sore elbow, but the way they were talking to me, I thought for sure we were talking an extended period of time. He actually went out there and practiced some (Sunday). That was a pleasant surprise.”
Through five games, Pierson leads KU in rushing (319 yards on 59 carries) and ranks second on the team with 198 receiving yards on 15 receptions. He also has scored three touchdowns.
2012 Photos of the Year - Nick Krug January 1, 2013
Charlie Weis KU-TCU postgame, Pt. 4 September 15, 2012
Charlie Weis KU-TCU postgame, Pt. 3 September 15, 2012
Charlie Weis KU-TCU postgame, Pt. 2 September 15, 2012
Charlie Weis KU-TCU postgame, Pt. 1 September 15, 2012
Comments
741hawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
The coaching staff has excellent resumes and significant experience in this game of football. We didn't recruit much following Mangino's firing. Gill was not the recruiter most people thought he would be. This year's opponents have revealed the lack of comparative athleticism on this Jayhawk squad. And, we need a kicking game.
Solution: Believe in the progress we see this staff making and give them time to recruit. As painful as that is, the reality is that it will take alot of time to get to the level of even the middle-of-the conference foes in this tough conference. (Note: One positive is that the kicking game can be solved in one season!)
Hang in there. Support the players' efforts as long as they don't quit. Rock Chalk.
dagger108 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Gill got plenty in the limited time he was here, but a bunch of that top talent also left in between the regimes as well as during the previous switch. We're moving in the right direction.
johnnyhrdwd 7 months, 2 weeks ago
How about getting Ford on the field other than special teams, Weis may need 3 years to clean up the mess.
KMathis 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Right on, 741Hawk....
Table_Rock_Jayhawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
741hawk - one problem...currently our 2013 recruiting class ranks dead last in the Big 12. So we can wait for Weis to get his recruits in...but I'm starting to wonder if he can really bring in some talent.
dagger108 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Actually, rivals (http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/) has us ranked head of Kstate, and though we're behind ISU, that has as much to do with having half as many commits.
741hawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Recruiting will make or break the success of any coach. Charlie's success depends on his recruiting success.
BringBackMark 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Heard an interesting statistic the other day regarding the two starting QB's in last Saturday's game.... Both were in the same recruiting class, one ranked no. 3 in the country and the other ranked 116th in the country. Any idea which was which?
I put no stock in recruiting class rankings. Snyder has always had lower ranked classes than the elite teams. Having the ability to evaluate talent and develop players will ultimately turn the program around. We'll never rank ahead of Texas or Oklahoma schools in recruiting. Where does that leave us in the best recruiting year?
kellerman411 7 months, 2 weeks ago
I'm not just picking on you BringBackMark but none of you have any idea what you are talking about when it comes to recruiting. Bill Snyder recruits elite juco players and they aren't included in the recruiting class rankings. Some of the more prestigous programs like OU or Texas think they are above juco guys because a lot of the kids from there have checkered pasts or academic problems. Pound for pound Snyder is getting some of the best guys in the nation. The major difference is he only has them for two years...
The good news is that CW is doing the same thing. All you guys that think we don't have any recruits coming in, go check out some of the juco guys we have committed.
Table_Rock_Jayhawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Kelllerman - how are these juco guys doing for us this season ?
pleiker 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Tavai and Stowers have been good for us on the DLine. Cox has been great at RB. Sterling hasn't been great, but good enough to come in and start after only a few weeks on the team. To bad McKinney didn't make it.
chiefs386 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Yup, a half dozen of JUCO guys are suppose to make us 3-2 right? IS that what you are saying? What he is saying is that Snyder's teams are loaded with JUCO guys, KU has what like 6 or 7 new JUCO players? PEopl also forget, Snyder only won one game in his first year too.
KMathis 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Table_Rock: Charlie Weiss HAD to go to Juco for recruits for 2012.. .most of the recruits for 2012 had already committed. The man hasn't even had one full recruiting season.. .and you are already dismissing his ability to recruit. As is painfully obvious to anyone watching... our talent and speed (particularly on defense) cannot hold up to other teams' offenses. It's a statement when opposing QBs are running up the middle and outrunning our defense (if not running over them). Give Weiss some time to recruit players.. and give the coaches a chance to help them develop. This team is still basically a re-tread of last year. We're making a few more big plays on defense... but still getting pushed around most of the time.
BringBackMark 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Kellerman, I wish I could share your enthusiasm about juco players. I've seen several attempts at KU over the years, going back to Pepper Rogers after he lost the '68 Orange Bowl team, to rebuild with juco's. We've had several good ones, e.g., Mike Norseth, Maumalanga, etc. We've had way more disappointments.
Part of what I didn't say above is that a recruits ranking is in large part based on the school's that are recruiting him. Anyone Texas recruits is automatically a 4 or 5 star recruit. It appears that Mack Brown does an average or below job of developing many of those players.
As for Snyder, yes he's hit some home runs with juco's but look at the number of 2 star Kansas kids that nobody wanted that he turned into NFL talent. That's a) evaluating talent, and b) developing players.
chiefs386 7 months, 2 weeks ago
You forget that Aqib Talib was also a low star count. That wasn't because a lack of talent, more the fact that he had off the field issues. There are a lot of recruits out there like that.
HawkTronic 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Maumalanga was a HS player - SoCal. Wittemore was a solid juco QB. Thorsen did OK as a transfer. There are some bright spots. True, a large percentage of KUs list of transfers have been failures, but the risk of carrying a player for 18 months vs 5 years often justifies the gamble. CW has big, inherited holes in talent and intensity. 80% of HS signees never significantly contribute to the team. If there is even a 10% chance of an immediate impact by a transfer, bring him .
ralster 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Sorry, squawk...pondering KU is pointless at this moment, and this whole season, due to the wafer thin roster. Urban Meyer couldnt fix this in 5 games, so I have ZERO delusions that this is some quick turnaround job. Too many pieces missing. Regarding conf. championships: God in heaven, why would you try to deflect what I said about conf. championships+natl championships??? Snyder is highly respected coach, and an absolute gentleman of a man. For what he has done for KState's program, that stadium absolutely deserves to be named for him. But he+we do play in a tough conference. I would like to see KState "handle" all the bigXII, and my bet is this could be the year he gets his 2nd Conf.Championship. AND, if he does, and KState ends up as one of the top 4 teams in the nation, they will get to play for the natl championship, deservedly so...and that proves my point. I personally think this could be Snyder's best, most experienced, toughest team. Always go for "national" legitimacy. Proves nothing "beating KU". Always go for the biggest target. Its about ultimate respect, not just relative pecking-order.
johnnyhrdwd 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Hubert, Brown, and Klein are their best players, they recruit corners from juco everybody else is a developed athlete.
ralster 7 months, 2 weeks ago
WHOA! Before you lay the pinnacle-of-coaching-wreath at Snyder's feet, tell me how many conference championships he has in all his years, and how many national championships his Purple have played for??? I fully agree Snyder has built a SOLID, fundamentally sound football team & program. BUT, honestly, it is a real newsworthy event when his team actually beats OU or Texas, isnt it? What Zenger and Weis are aiming at is competetiveness and a chance to win the conference. That means nothing less than being competetive x 4quarters vs. OU and TX...(who are clearly the class of the conference most every year). That is our target. Always target the best opponents, just like Self does. We want that respectability. We have a long way to go in the football program. Weis has a man's job ahead of him, and I fully support him for the long haul. Self's program is already there, god bless him...
squawkhawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Funny how you leave KSU out of the elite of the Big 12 but you included Texas. As I recall, KSU has beat Texas something like four or 5 year in a row. A great coach isn't necessarily defined by the number of championships they have won. It is how well his teams play year in and year out. Snyder always has competitive teams and he does so with less pure talent than most of you realize. This is what makes him a great coach and a reason why he has been a national coach of the year so many times. KSU does more with less talent and less resources than most of the other Big 12 schools. If they can do this at lowly KSU, then why can't we do this at KU? Ponder this one if you will.
ralster 7 months, 2 weeks ago
squawk, oops, see reply just above under BringBackMark post.
njjayhawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Santa Claus signed yesterday to play QB at KU. He will redshirt next year. Oh wait, he's already a redshirt!
ChiJayhawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Don't forget CC players. They do not count toward your rankings but can be significant pick ups.
HawkDigestCom 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Cummins should get a series or two each game from here on out. Not as a vote of non-confidence for Crist, but in the spirit of preparing for next year.
jhox 7 months, 2 weeks ago
I wonder, in relation to the redshirt comments, if Weis is considering taking the redshirt off Turner Baty? I've thought it odd they would redshirt him when we're going to have Heaps for the next two years. Maybe we should redshirt him next year instead?
It's clear with our O line that a more mobile guy might be the way to go. We have good run blockers but as far as pass blockers, not so much.
I wouldn't be surprised to see significant changes made next week. I think from Weis' comments things will be shaken up a lot.
texashawk10 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Baty is a true sophomore this year. If Weis doesn't pull his redshirt at some point this season, then Baty will be a RS senior in 2015 along with Cummings which will be a year after Jake Heaps is gone. That's why you redshirt Baty so that he and Cummings can battle for the starting job that year and have some competition. Here's what the QB situation is likely to look like in the next few years. Jake Heaps starts in 2013 and 2014, Baty and Cummings battle for the starting job as seniors in 2015, Jordan Darling and Montell Cozart battle for the job for the next two years as RS juniors in 2016 and 2017. As of right now, KU appears to be set at QB through the 2017 season.
jhox 7 months, 2 weeks ago
But you could red shirt Baty next year. Why must it be this year when Crist is struggling? If you really believe in Heaps (from what I've seen, I certainly do) then you need to use Baty now if you think he's a better choice than Cummings.
kellerman411 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Its like a bad record that just gets played over and over again. People say KU has the worst recruiting class in the Big 12. Go look at the juco players committed... They aren't given a ranking and aren't included in the class rankings. We have a DE committed who is the type of defensive lineman KU has never seen before, out of the state of Mississippi no less. We also have a committment from a LB who had offers from half the big 12 but says he wants to play for Dave Campo. If you want to talk highschool guys, look at the 2 corners we plucked out of Texas already...
Table_Rock_Jayhawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Keller - Again. Tavai and McKinney we're said to be NFL caliber and our D-line was fixed ? Heard that the ENTIRE off-Season.
We have got to get some 4 and 5 star talent in the trenches...that are freshman and will be in the program for a while.
Anyone that puts no merit into recruiting rankings is just plain rediculous. Yeah sometimes guys are over or under rated. Crist was obviously.
But look at the SEC...and you can't tell me recruiting rankings don't mean anything.
bville_hawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Table_Rock, The recruiting ratings are kind of self-fulfilling. An average unremarkable player will be automatically elevated to 4 stars if he is being recruited by Texas or Alabama. If a player is being recruited by the top schools the ratings outfits just assume the player must be at least a 3 star or 4 star recruit.
Because they are top programs their recruits are always going to rate more stars.
chiefs386 7 months, 2 weeks ago
I did not hear ANYONE say that the D-Line was fixed. I believe most people saw that it would be better this year, but not fixed.
KMathis 7 months, 2 weeks ago
All you Crist-bashers who keep saying you expect more from a 5th year senior who was such a heralded recruit. He had exactly 10 starts in his college career at Notre Dame since high school.. prior to enrolling at Kansas. 10 starts in 4 years. You guys act like he was a 3 year, seasoned college QB. Who cares what someone is ranked or where our recruits come from. It is going to take more athletic talent and speed to compete in the Big 12. Those 3 and 4 play, 70+ TD drives show that we just don't have the talent. Speaking of which, where are the "fans" who were raving about us going to a bowl game this year... who then just DISAPPEARED when the team started losing. We have better talent on defense than half the BCS schools one idiot posted. Wow, after the K-State game, I don't think I even need to point out the ignorance behind that assessment. It's going to take a couple of years. I'd rather have established coaches like Weis and Campo trying to turn around this program than someone else. They KNOW talent better than any of you armchair coaches do... so I will put faith in them instead of just bashing anyone and everyone for another losing season.
NebraskaJayhawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Some harsh words, but a lot of truth in there as well.
ralster 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Awesome post, KMathis. Agree 100%. Man, this year is a pure patch-job, wafer thin eggshell of a team. Give Weis+Campo+Grunhard+Bowen 2 solid years of recruiting+coaching+mindset changing...This is a total rebuild job. That is what a credentialled staff like Weis's was brought in to do. This is NOT the NFL where you bring 10 free agents, and even that approach, did it work for Philly last year? This year? Gill's players had over 50 "F's". Weis had to clean house. This is a wafer thin roster. Evidence the ease at which well-oiled KState killed our defense. Campo needs speed, size, talent, depth. And he needed it before the start of the season. We are stuck with what we inherited for this season, and Weis had to release some players too. Wafer thin. What exactly are people judging here, other than the aftermath of Gill+Lew's screw-up???
jhox 7 months, 2 weeks ago
We do have Heaps and McCay eligible next year. That should help the offense a great deal. We already have good running backs. A couple of good juco linemen and it won't take much to fix the offense.
We need a bunch of good Juco defensive linemen who can be ready to step in and linebackers too.
OakvilleJHawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
When I herard the score at halftime, 21-14, I felt like, thank God...guys, get on the bus back to Lawrence before the second half starts!!
What's depressing is we are constantly being televised because Kansas is this year's DRK [designated road kill] for all the ranked BIG 12 teams. One possible positive is that high school and juco players will see our team and figure, "heck, I can play there right away!!"
Table_Rock_Jayhawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Oakville - that's exactly what Weis said in his post game interview.
Crusty 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Really ?? Then why don't you take your happy fair weather fan attitude and try out for the team. You and the rest of the fair weather fans need to just show up and show some pride. Get on the bus and come home before the second half starts !! Your PATHETIC !!
HouTexHawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Why don't you form your own blog in which only people can make positive comments about the team and live in your own delusional world? This is an open forum and there is no excuse for insults. There are more negatives about the football program than positives and the new coaching staff has not eliminated a lot of the negatives during the first five games of the season
Crusty 7 months, 2 weeks ago
The biggest negative I witnessed was the KU's Stadium had at least 3 to 4 thousand if not more empty seats during the TCU game. Give Charlie & his staff a chance. Rome was not built over night.
Crusty 7 months, 2 weeks ago
The biggest negative I saw was 3 or 4 thousand " if not more" empty seats during the TCU game. I show more positive with Charlie & his staff than most on here do. Rome was not built over night. The least the fans including the Student section can show up and stay the whole game instead of leaving a half time. Stick around and show some pride.
Crusty 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Sorry man. My Bad. Having a bad day and just showed off my backside. Have a good day.
OakvilleJHawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Hang on there, Crusty..sorry I didn't make it clear that was poking fun. Heck, a solid first half is more than I expected and shows improvement. It is a chicken and egg connundrum, however, as to which comes first, on the field results begetting fan loyalty or vice versa.
KMathis 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Precisely INCORRECT. You show loyalty first.. and not just wait for good results to then jump on the bandwagon. Ridiculous...
Crusty 7 months, 2 weeks ago
I too am sorry for all I said to you and oakvillehawk. Having a bad day and for sure I showed my back side . He is 100% right with the recruits coming in 2013 and having that chance to start asap next year. Sorry again for my stupidity and loose gums. My Bad.
jaykan7 7 months, 2 weeks ago
I was very impressed with the first half and how the Hawks played. It was like Weis had put together a really good game plan and we competed with KSU for the entire first half. That to me was the best football I have seen us play as a team this year, and it made me think, alright we have something positive happening here. Hopefully in the next few games we can go for a full 4 quarters and look competitive to the end. We need help on D fast. When we could get KSU off the field our offense did fine. There was just a lot of pressure to score once we got behind. Looking forward to more improvement. RCJHGKU
ralster 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Pierson being lost for the game also affected the offensive options & playcalls quite a bit. Clearly evident. Weis+Crist absolutely lost a major target & weapon when Pierson went out.
leonard 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Over the course of our last 31 games...we've won 5 times. In the conference we've won just twice in the last 3+ years.
To be competitive on a conference or national level it takes a squad with 40-50 quality players...and that's not something that Weis can fix in the 10 months he's been here.
Is Chuck the man to get the job done? Time will tell...but it's way too early to assess a grade on his efforts.
jaykan7 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Here is a novel concept. Give Weis his 5 years to see what he can do. We canned Gill after his second year, and countless other coaches get fired before their contracts run out. If we get rid of Weis before then our program will struggle longer than anyone will want to see. As long as we see improvement then I think we keep some stability in the program. I was excited with the energy our guys came out and played with on Saturday during the first half. I hope Weis in committed to KU and doesn't treat this job like a payroll service.
nuleafjhawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Fire him. Don't fire him.
History tells me that no matter who our coach is, we'll have a bunch of crappy seasons and then one or two fair-to-decent to good seasons and once in a blue moon we'll have a great player or two and a great season.
Like most of our fans, I was very pleased with most of the first half, but the one thing that bothers me most of all about CW is his TG-like lack of fire. I don't see him getting ticked at stupid plays, I don't see him enthused after good plays. All I've seen is him looking at his clipboard and jotting down notes.
I'm thinking his notes are along the lines of " hmmm......I'll make $9,068.12 from now until the next TV timeout.....".
Sorry to be so unenthusiastic, I think the coach is rubbing off on me.
jaykan7 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Like Snyder shows any emotion what so ever. Weis knew this was going to be a difficult season. I was skeptical in the beginning, We beat South Dakota St, lost to Rice which was a head scratcher, competed with TCU, lost on the road to NIU and lost to KSU. But that first half to me gave me something to be optomistic about. If we can play some first halves like that the rest of the season and get more competitive, my being skeptical will start subsiding. But Weis can be so fly by night, I hope he is committed to making a true go at this.
nuleafjhawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
jaykan7 - very good point about Snyder. Except he wins.
2005grad 7 months, 2 weeks ago
When there is a brain fart on the field... You better believe Snyder gets pissed... Go back to the 2010 KU-KSU game in Lawrence (59-7)... They had 12 guys on the field for a play, and even though they didn't get called for it, Snyder went over and CHEWED out his D. Coordinator for a couple minutes... Just because he is normally a level headed guy, doesn't mean he doesn't have a fire inside him...
IlBastardo 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Here's a rundown of the part of the article you skipped:
That’s why, following Saturday’s 56-16 stinker in Manhattan, Weis hunkered down in his office at the Anderson Family Football Complex and did not leave for six hours.
“The worse it is, the harder I work,” Weis said.
KU’s first-year head coach spent the majority of that time between 5 and 11 p.m. Saturday reliving the loss that dropped his Jayhawks to 1-4 overall and 0-2 in Big 12 play. He watched the game film two times through, each time breaking it down into offensive clips, defensive clips and special-teams clips.
“Normally, I wait ’til Sunday morning to do that,” Weis said. “But I didn’t want to wait ’til Sunday morning because I wanted to see, in detail, what happened.”
I like visible enthusiasm and passion as much as the next guy but come on. Weis obviously isn't just collecting a paycheck. He really wants to win. Don't make outlandish statements.
nuleafjhawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
It's not an outlandish statement. It's how I feel. I like a guy that shows some emotion on the sidelines.
jaykan7 7 months, 2 weeks ago
I just said I hope he's not doing that about collecting the pay check. The one thing that worries me about that comment, “The worse it is, the harder I work,” from Weis is that, Is this program really in that bad of shape? I knew this season would be tough, but that makes it seem like this game showed something to Weis he didn't see before and he is looking for the panic button.
nuleafjhawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
jaykan7 - I apologize that I am not very familiar with you. I just wanted to let you know that I rarely post things with much "substance" to them. (Sad, but true!) I try to highlight things that have me disgruntled or say things that I think are funny. (I'm made aware often that the things I find funny and the things others find funny are usually not the same!) Anyway - I guess I'm just trying to say not to pay heed ( unlike the Phog!! ) to some of the stupid things I say - they're usually just to get a laugh or a rise.
RCJH
vd 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Weiss loses and spends 6 hrs. in his office. Snyder wins and spends 16 hrs. in his office.
AtlJaybird 7 months, 2 weeks ago
I sense much fan-fatigue in you today, NuLeaf. I sympathize, but please don't give in to the dark-side. Don't allow the forces of hopelessness and cynicism on this site to overcome you. There are many reasons to be hopeful, you just have to look extra hard to find them.
First, any passing resemblance between Charlie's demeanor and TG's demeanor is purely coincidental, i assure you. I'm quite certain Weis can, and has verbally undressed quite a few players on this team, behind closed doors, in a way Gill can't even imagine. Charlie has never been known to act like a lunatic on the sideline, but I don't think that means much.
Second, We just competed with the 6th-ranked team in the nation (they should probably be ranked higher) for an entire half, and still had the game within reach two-thirds of the way through the 3rd quarter. Unfortunately, we turned the ball over 5 times and K-State, true to form, made virtually zero mistakes and converted almost every turnover to a touchdown. So take away the obvious mistakes and turnovers, and once again it isn't that hard to imagine us being in this game at the end.
Third, by all accounts we have an excellent coaching staff that is going about this the right way. The biggest difference I see between KSU and KU is that the Wildcats are consistent and never hurt themselves. That's a testament to their coach, but it's also the result of a long-term commitment to a particular coaching staff and program. If we stick with Weis I believe it will pay big dividends in 2 to 3 years.
Frankly, I find the sudden "fire Weis" talk to be pretty comical. Unless he and his staff completely implode like Gill and his staff did (and the chances of that seem pretty close to nil), Weis isn't going anywhere for quite a while, and that's as it should be. It will take much time and patience to turn this thing around.
nuleafjhawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
AtlJay, Dang it - do you always have to be the voice of reason that brings me back to reality ? lol
Honestly, this is about what I expected this year. There were several posters that predicted 3-6 wins. I was not one of them! I'd love to be optimistic, but I hang with realistic and am usually not so disappointed.
The outcome of this game - well - it pissed me off (can I say that? If not then, it upset me greatly). I agree with your assessment of the team and coaching staff - we are headed, ever so slowly, in the right direction. Sometimes I can be very impatient.
By the way, I was not insinuating that we should fire Weis (although " fire weis " sounds a lot like that huh?) - I was just saying that it doesn't seem to matter who's in charge, we just can't put together a consistently solid football team. I'm speaking from 45+ years of being a fan.
I think you're probably aware that much of what I post is for the comical and BS aspect of things, but in all sincerity I am very glad for posters like you who have knowledge and insight and patience.
AtlJaybird 7 months, 2 weeks ago
I knew you weren't actually advocating for Weis to be fired. Your too nice for that. Your just expressing the frustration we are all feeling, and doing it in your usual masterful comedic way. And I always appreciate that.
Yea that game pissed me off too. Sick of being everyone's punch line and punching bag. Someone said recently on this site that we are a very weary fan base, and I thought that hit the nail on the head. I think that's why we might overreact a little after each of these losses. We're just sick and tired of it.
But the first half gave me a glimmer of hope Saturday. I caught a glimpse of what this team can be, and the prospect of that is sustaining my hope right now. Of course, if OSU does to us this weekend what they did to us last year, I might change my tune.
squawkhawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
If Weis is committed to KU then his family would be in Lawrence and not in Florida. And don't give me that crap about his daughter being in some special place that she really likes. There are plenty of great schools in the area that are probably just as nice. This is just an excuse and makes it easier for him to bolt after next year when things get really tough. I also don't see Grunny moving his family to Lawrence. Where is his commitment. Again. he's just testing the waters to see how things go and then make a decision later if it is really worth it or not.
ralster 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Not buying it. As someone in the medical field, if Weis's special-needs daughter has comfort and familiarity with her current setting, that has significant value--God god, man, who are we to judge for Weis on that man's own intimate details?? And Weis & wife have chosen to live apart just to support that child's needs. That, my man, has to be respected. You can say Weis showed a tremendous committment by almost living in his office (I'm sure he has an apt. also in Lawrence), as he begins this man's job of rebuilding. Im sure he would rather have his daughter and wife with him, but that shouldnt be for you or me to judge, SHOULD IT? Grunhard lives in KC. That is a 35-45min drive...that again is Grunhard's choice and decision, isnt it? Are you afraid of what this staff may accomplish beyond 2-3yrs?
ralster 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Come on, nuleaf, I know you are a solid jayhawk, and I respect your frustrated opinion...I think "let Charlie be Charlie". He is the Offensive coordinator, not just Head Coach. So he really(!) has to be thinking "next play" even more than Dayne Crist, as he is responsible for the next play call. Also, maybe this whole season gets an asterisk as a qualifier, because showing alot of emotion means (like Self does) that you fully expect your guys to be making the plays they goofed on, and that they know better, etc...Maybe Charlie knows his current roster is FAR from such expectations? Thus it would come across as a disingenuous 'public display' to his players--who may recognize such theatrics as misplaced. We cannot compete with a top10 team just yet. No one wants or should have to say that, but it is true. It took Weis himself absolutely pulling out ALL the stops to get that 2nd TD: Who goes for it on 4th & 8 deep on our own end of the field and calls a fake punt? Weis did, and he had to (cant trust kicking game). We need 2 kickers next year, among a whole plethora of roster deficiencies in talent, size, speed. Should have been utterly obvious what little Campo has to work with.
HouTexHawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Whether Weis was the right hire is now immaterial. Of course, he is going to give every chance to succeed as he should. The AD made the hire which some said wa risky and he knows that if Weis fails he fails. Weis does not have a good track record in either of his previous college positions and hasn't done anything in the first give games that he is making positive step.
While I agree that empty seats looks horrible on TV why stay if your team is being pounded. I sat though many NU games where we were out of by the beginning of the second quarter back in the 70s and opted to go to the Hawk or Wheel at halftime. I don't think my leaving affect the team's performance or makes me a bad fan.
ralster 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Well, you lost me at "hasnt done anything in the first five games". My good man, the overall consensus is that the proper infrastructure and groundwork are being built properly...Weis was NOT hired to win now...eventhough he tried to steal a few with 5th yr seniors, I dont blame him 1 bit for trying. We could easily be 3-2, but we are not. Just look at what Weis inherited. And he had to clean house, as Gill's players had accumulated 50+ F's academically. Can you sniff the amount of 'academic ineligibility' we would have had if Weis hadnt cleaned house, and held student athletes accountable. Your COMPARISON of "previous college positions" holds very little credibility for this reason: Was Weis hired to do a total top-to-bottom rebuild job at NDame? (Nope). And being only the Offensive Coordinator, he could put very little stamp on that Florida program, right? Especially since he didnt get to recruit to his offense's needs, did he? KU is a man's job. TOTAL rebuilding job. Weis's weakness at NDame was his defense in general, and offense injuries. So this head coaching job, he has brought in a real pro in Campo. But it is utterly evident that Campo needs speed, size, talent, and depth. This whole wafer-thin roster needs at least 2yrs of solid all-positions recruiting, especially kickers...to even begin to be a reliable on-field gridiron product. THE ONLY THING WE ARE JUDGING RIGHT NOW IS THE (expected) AFTERMATH OF THE GILL+LEW DISASTER. This is the reality. This will take 2-3yrs tobegin to turn around.
jayhawkintx1973 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Hasn't done anything? Really?
AzHawk97 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Maybe head coach, offensive coordinator, and avid UDK reader Charlie Weis has too much on his plate. The head coaching job at the University of Kansas is challenging enough, but adding the offensive coordinator responsibilities to that makes it even more so. I hope that after this season Weis realizes this and finds someone to take over the offense. He may find it lets him do his head coaching job more efficiently and leave him more time for Twitter. It's not as though Florida has been hurt by not having his offensive genius on the sidelines.
hammerhawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Obviously, from looking at KU's own recent past, it only takes a few really good players to make really big difference in the Win-Loss ratio. I'm fairly confident CW can get us those players. I'm looking forward to being in the stands on Saturday because I think Charlie is going to make some significant changes. Go Hawks!
AtlJaybird 7 months, 2 weeks ago
The final score of this game made it look just like the previous two blowouts, but in reality it was a very different game. We went toe-to-toe with the 7th ranked team in the nation for the first half, and with 8 minutes left in the 3rd quarter were very much still in it. That's very different from many of the games last year where it looked like we didn't even belong on the same field. I saw enough Saturday to be encouraged, but we obviously still have a long way to go.
The first 5 minutes of the 3rd quarter was a microcosm of what's wrong with this team. After receiving the kickoff for the 2nd half, KU went 3 and out for virtually no gain with some very conservative and non-creative play-calling. Then Doherty kicks a below-average punt and KSU gets a better than average return (for a net punt of 4 yards). To make matters worse Doherty gets hurt on the play and struggles even more than usual for the remainder of the game. Then the KU Defense forces K-State to a 3rd and goal situation, has Klein trapped in the backfield, but Heeney forgets to cover the tight-end and Klein finds him. Hard to get on Heeney's case with the way he played, but his lack of experience cost us a touchdown on that play. Then we take the kickoff and start moving the ball again, only to have Crist make a lousy throw at the goal line to turn the ball over again. Nevertheless, after a huge play by the defense we are still only down by 12 with 8 minutes left in the 3rd quarter. Then Parmalee fumbles the ball at our own 30. Our defense blows the next play, and K-tate runs the ball into the end-zone. The game was over right then and there. No way we were going to score 3 touchdowns and hold them scoreless on their field, especially with the inconsistency of our passing game.
Mistakes and turnovers (we committed 5 turnovers, they committed zero) were the difference in this game. We held our own with K-State, driving the ball on the 3rd best Big-12 rushing defense all game long, but we made too many offensive mistakes. Likewise, take away the big mistakes and blown assignments on defense, and we played pretty well against a very good team. And of course, no aspect of this team hurt us more on Saturday than special teams. With the notable exception of our kicking game, I think the pieces are there for KU to be good, but experience and consistency are sorely lacking. I don't how you correct those problems in the short-term. We just have to keep sawing wood, working on improving all the little things (in a Snyderesque way), and working on minimizing mistakes. If we do that, and the fans are patient, I feel confident we will be able to compete with K-State for 4 quarters in a year or two.
troutsee 7 months, 2 weeks ago
I agree with you entirely.
Our weakest links are still D, sp. teams, QB.
We definitely need to give this coaching staff time.
ralster 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Atl, nice post. Pierson out & not available really hampered the playcalling-->we went vanilla predictable. Swinging out to Pierson had the Purple defense spread out all over, thus opening up more in the middle. Man, credit Cox and Sims for still gashing the middle even with our vanilla-ized offense the 3rd qtr. But turnovers and a true frosh fumbling take away any chance for a marginal-talent squad like this year's KU to keep competing. I actually re-watched the first 2 KU TD drives and came away with 2 thoughts: 1)wow! 2)also realized it took Weis himself going against all conventional wisdom by making 4th down call to get that 2nd TD & that any adjustment by KSU or 1 injury (Pierson), and we wouldnt be able to compete. That's what played out in the 2nd half. Just a sign of the bigger picture...
AtlJaybird 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Agree completely. Amazing how much Pierson's injury hampered our offense. It's hard to believe we don't have a single other player capable of catching a screen pass and getting up-field (DJ? DP? Pick? Tre?), but it sure looked that way Saturday. The moment he came out of the game we stopped spreading the field with screens. Which makes it even more impressive that we were still able to chew up yards so efficiently on the ground. And your right, those first two drives were very impressive. Even Dayne Crist looked amazing at the start. As you said, it was a sign of the bigger picture, and better times ahead.
HouTexHawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
i'm guessing the current coaching staff will be able to recruit. The question is can they coach them up. Bringing in fifth year mercenaries has seriously backfired. By bringing in Crist and some other transfers Weis implied he would win this year meaning win the non conference games and a couple of conference games. Everything I read before the season made me believe this would happen but the performance and play calling on the field has been a disappointment.
ralster 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Disagree on the 5th yr seniors backfiring. It has been a mixed bag. Crist has been very spotty: some bigtime throws, then some flat horrible misses. And in EVERY single game, receivers have let him down also (as a 3rd factor). Regarding other transfers, the 5th yr Nebr guy has been OK on the D-line. As we see, the entire team (half new roster from last year) is in its 5th game...and the chemistry has been slow to gel. Put it this way: there will still be improvement in offensive execution, but it will be masked by the utter dogfights the rest of the conference schedule has lined up for us. All I can say to the players is: keep your head up. Keep fighting, never know when you'll cause that key turnover or make that key 1st down...I solidly support the coach+team fighting out there!
hellohawks 7 months, 2 weeks ago
I think most of you are impatient like I would be. But, the reality is that you have to give any head coach, especially one at ku or ksu a minimum of 4yrs. to get things started to turn around in the right direction. Let coach weis get his recruits in from freshmen through seniors until any of you start jumping off a cliff. I graduated from ksu in 1995, am a die-hard fan, etc. But I root for ku in all of their games except when they play each other, cause it is a rival game. I would love to have this sunflower showdown be like it was in 1995 with both teams being ranked. That is what the state of kansas needs. My uncle, john stucky was an all-american nose guard for ksu from 1966-1970, and my step-dad, gary davenport was a stud linebacker for ku from 1966-1970. So, i root for both teams when they play other conf. opponents. I am sick of the entire football nation, especially the sec where i live bag on the big 12 and make fun of ksu and kus. It pisses me off to know end! Ku will turn it around, but the fans and administration have to give it time. Just like when snyder steps down, ksu fans and administration have to give the new coach time (unless its ron prince).
ralster 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Best post I've seen from a KState guy! I like your strongKansan family tree... Hey, while I dont like some of the KSU fanbase, my hat's off to Snyder and the solid team he has built. Strong chance KSU can win the entire BigXII (thank god that north/south junk is ended). And if they win the entireBigXII and end up ranked 4th or higher, they just might get to play for the Natl.Championship. I am utterly thankful we actually have a competent football coaching staff compared to the bad-joke disaster of the Gillidiot era--all we need is about 2 solid years of recruiting & coaching, bebe!
OakvilleJHawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
When you start a building from the ground up, the first thing you do is test the soil for bearing capacity, even before you pour one ounce of concrete or lay one brick.
That is what Charlie is doing this season. He is testing capacities. He is not so much evaluating was he has...he is evaluating what he DOESN"T HAVE. Thus he can put together a recruiting strategy that will be best for the team in the future.
AznSnSaTioN 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Very well said OakvilleJHawk. Yes it sucks to see them losing week in and week out, but I do see some improvement from last year. I remember the GaTech game last year when one of their RB ran for a 90+ yard for a TD, a couple of our DB was running away from him instead of trying to catch him. This year's team is better coached. I didn't expect much from this year's team but after this year I want to see improvement each and every year.
vd 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Building a football program with 5th year seniors, is like building a house from the roof down.
KMathis 7 months, 2 weeks ago
What do you SUGGEST he should have done with recruiting for 2012, VD? He took the job on December 8th. Most 2012 high school recruits had already committed. JUCO was the logical place to go when most HS seniors were already signed/committed elsewhere.
danno1313 7 months, 2 weeks ago
How can this defense be this bad EVERY YEAR????????????????????????????????????? Pitiful!
ralster 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Aww, another clueless pitiful jayhawk football fan-wannabe. Here is the quick answer on the awful defense: Campo needs size, talent, speed!!! He did not inherit much did he? It takes time to get the right personnel to become competent. We switched back to a 4-3. It takes even NFL teams a whole off-season of roster moves/free agency to make a base-defense scheme switch...so HOW ON GOD's GREEN EARTH IS A STAFF GONNA DO THIS IN 5 GAMES? Get real. Go read a book about football, or at least watch enough non-ku football games to learn to analyze different defenses and personnel differences, eh??? (if you just watch ku games of the last 2-3yrs, you wont learn much at all, other than ask very dumbly: "why"). Get wiser. Go watch the NFL and top20 college.
HouTexHawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Never understood brining in fifth seniors if you are trying to build something for the long term. The defense has been bad since 2007. These issues go back to Mangino. In 2008 and 2009, we had offensive talent that kept us competitive. We lost the skills offensive players when Mangino was let go and have not had a decent offense since. That is my biggest disappointment with Weis. He is viewed to be an offensive 'genius' and I expected the offense to be better. Of course, it is not his fault for the turnovers, but many people blamed Gill for turnovers last year. A bad hire can set a program back. I hope Weis is not a second consecutive bad hire.
The Big 12 is loaded and it is sad that we are orders of magnitude behind the worst teams. ESPN bowl projection this weak has all nine of the other teams in the conference going to a bowl.
ralster 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Back up, mister! You CANNOT understand bringing 5th yr seniors "if you are trying to build for the long term"--because the 2 concepts do NOT go together, my good man. 1) 5th yr seniors were partly to inject 'outside' mentality, as well as physically mature bodies and some talent...all for this ONE year ONLY, because they are GONE after this year. Trying to shore up a wafer thin team after Weis had to dismiss some kids, and some kumbayakids also chose to transfer (since the going was about to get "real" and rough). 2) Building longterm is only with a steady stream of real recruiting. Ahhh, but Weis did not arrive at KU in time to even get 1 full recruiting season...so you see now that he was limited in his choices simply by timing. Yet, he brings two 5star recruits within days. Awful team chemistry for Crist to walk into with his dream, but I sincerely thank him for trying to help Weis and us, and I wish the best for Dayne. There is still time for the offense to gel in the passing game, and for Dayne to put up some night&day different stats the 2nd half of the season (i hope for Dayne's sake). Heaps (the other 5star) has 2yrs of playability after this redshirt year. He will have a stronger horses to run with compared to Dayne Crist.
ralster 7 months, 2 weeks ago
...and the 2nd part of your post. How on earth can you JUDGE the wafer thin roster that Weis inherited??? Cant you see how much of a talent gap we have, especially on defense? Recruiting, Recruiting, recruiting, then add coaching, coaching, and conditioning+conditioning. Man, post like you know something about what the term "total rebuilding job" means? Because that is why Zenger hired Weis and Weis built a competent staff, much better than he even had at NDame, as that most definitely was NOT a total rebuilding job. You wanna judge Weis, then let the man do the job first. Sheesh...
Geekinout 7 months, 2 weeks ago
I'm not too worried about the recruiting capabilities of Weis and Campo. I am, however, more fearful of their play calling and game management skills. Weis, still hasn't proved he's out from under the shadows of Bill Belichick and the recruitings of Ty Willingham. At Florida he had a boat load of talent and the results were average. I think a lot of Florida fans would be glad that he's our coach now. Sad! I'm hoping Campo can build a deep and stout defense that can keep KU in most games going into the 4th quarter.
At this point though, I'm glad we have both of these coaches trying to rebuild the program over someone like Turner Gill. Heard he struggled to win his first game at Liberty to a team that's 0-4. Good hire on that one though KUAD!! I honestly think we should have had Campo as the head coach and Weis as the offensive coordinator. I think the defense is going progress better in 2-4 years than the offense will after a few more recruiting classes.
squawkhawk 7 months, 2 weeks ago
Here is why Weis will always be a decent coach but never a great one. "“The worse it is, the harder I work.” Snyder works hard every day, no matter how good or how bad it is, not just when things get bad. His recipe for success is to get better every day (yes he first coined this term that everyone now uses) and he and his players buy into his tireless work ethic and philosophy. I've yet to hear what Weis' philosophy is.
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