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Kansas defeats Oregon State, 84-78

  • 7 p.m., Nov. 30, 2012
  • Sprint Center, Kansas City, MO

Friday, November 30, 2012

Beaver fever: Self searching for answers on D after close win over Oregon State

Kansas head coach Bill Self puts his head in his hands after a Jayhawk turnover turned into a bucket for Oregon State during the second half on Friday, Nov. 30, 2012 at the Sprint Center in Kansas City, Missouri.

Kansas head coach Bill Self puts his head in his hands after a Jayhawk turnover turned into a bucket for Oregon State during the second half on Friday, Nov. 30, 2012 at the Sprint Center in Kansas City, Missouri.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self talks after win over Oregon State

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 84-78 victory over Oregon State on Nov. 30, 2012.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Travis Releford and Ben McLemore

Kansas guards Travis Releford and Ben McLemore talk to reporters following the Jayhawks' 84-78 victory over Oregon State on Nov. 30, 2012.

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Box score

KU vs. OSU

— A few more points here and there and Oregon State basketball coach Craig Robinson would have received a congratulatory call from the White House late Friday night.

Unranked and unheralded Oregon State, which hasn’t beaten a Top 10 team on the road in 36 years, threw a scare into Kansas University’s No. 10-rated Jayhawks before falling, 84-78, before 18,789 quiet fans in Sprint Center.

The Beavers of the Pac-12, who are coached by President Barack Obama’s brother-in-law, shredded KU’s defense in cutting a 14-point deficit to zero the first half and a 13-point deficit to three with under a minute to play in the game.

“It all comes down to this. They guard the guy with the ball better than we guard their guy with the ball. We couldn’t guard No. 3 period,” KU coach Bill Self said of guard Ahmad Starks, who scored 25 points off 9-of-20 shooting, 7-of-13 from three.

“That’s something that obviously has to improve, or we’ll have to change how we play. We’ll have to start playing some zone or whatnot,” added Self.

Zone? Yes ... you read right. He said zone.

KU’s 10th-year coach, who is a disciple of man-to-man defense, was left to ponder putting his Jayhawks in a 2-3 zone after a game in which KU hit 60 percent of its shots, yet only won by six points.

“We didn’t guard the ball,” Self said. “They didn’t score off their actions. They scored off us not being able to guard the ball, which is pretty important. We can’t blame it on our offense. We got the ball where we wanted it to go, we just didn’t do any good at stopping them.”

Elijah Johnson, who has been battling a knee injury the past couple weeks, had nine assists, four turnovers and six points in 28 minutes.

“You saw tonight. He got whipped,” Self said. “I hate to say that. The point guard on their team gets 25. Ours gets six. That’s not all on him. Different guys were guarding him.

“That’s what’s frustrating. I don’t know where we go from there yet,” added Self, who tried Naadir Tharpe (no points, two turnovers, one assist, eight minutes), Rio Adams (two points, one assist, one turnover, four minutes) and walk-on Evan Manning (no stats in two minutes) at the backup point position.

“We’ll try to figure a way to put us in a situation where the other team doesn’t feel so comfortable right now. He (Johnson) is doing some nice things, but he is not making plays on either end. That is frustrating. We are used to having some guys back there that can make some plays.”

On Friday, KU, which received 15 points the first half from Ben McLemore (he finished with 21), was bailed out by senior Travis Releford, who scored 20 points, 16 the final half.

He had four points in a 9-0 run that upped a 48-44 lead to 57-44. Then, when that lead had been cut to 64-61 (with 9 minutes left), Releford converted a bucket and assist in an 8-0 surge that again opened the lead to 72-61.

“He didn’t do anything in the first half,” Self said of Releford, who finished with seven rebounds and five assists to go with his 20 points. “We were almost playing four against five. I got onto him about it the second half. He drove the ball hard. That’s the thing with Travis. If he drives it, something good will usually happen. He drove it in transition. He also drove it in halfcourt. We got a lot of easy baskets because he was aggressive. That was good to see.”

Releford, a Kansas City native who was MVP of the recent CBE Classic in Sprint Center, said Self indeed got him going.

“Coach challenged me at halftime,” Releford said. “(He challenged) all the guards saying how we hadn’t been attacking the paint, stuff we’d been working on the past week. I noticed that, so I figured I should probably put pressure on the defense to help the team. It opened up for me.”

KU, which had a 33-19 lead evaporate at 37-37 the first half and a 57-44 lead drop to 80-77, didn’t put this one away until McLemore cashed two free throws with :13.9 left, upping the Jayhawks’ 80-77 lead to 82-77.

KU held off the Beavers, whose last road win over a Top 10 team was against No. 6 Washington on Jan. 17, 1976.

“They could have come back and won that game,” Releford said. “We had the lead and we could have closed the game. It could have went either way.”

KU will next meet Colorado at 1 p.m. on Saturday, Dec. 8 in Allen Fieldhouse.

Comments

Robert Murphy 1 year, 4 months ago

If this team goes anywhere we must get considerable minutes from white, Ellis and Adams. If these three develop as they should they will be very much better by the end of the season and so will the team. Ellis especially is playing way below his potential. Look for Perry to have a break out game soon. I thought Jaybates comments on white were very interesting. Jaybate really had some great posts today and many others have as well. This site is improving just like the basketball team. We always learn more not less. This is a great thing for it means whatever needs to be done can be done. Making money and making sense are mutually exclusive. Global warming and all makes it imperative to start making sense. I like basketball but I am distracted by the many issues we need to address if we are going to be playing basketball in 50 years. As a game it was great as it was designed and with a few tweaks the modernized version is better, except for the violent way it is being played. Do we have stand your ground laws in basketball. When is it OK to knock someone to the floor without a foul being called? Is it any wonder so many young people are getting injured? We need to rethink why we play sports.

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Jeff Kilgore 1 year, 4 months ago

Some of the shots that the OSU player made were just ridiculous. Yeah, we're not playing as well on D, but it's hard to make those shots unguarded. We won't see another performance like that week in, week out.

Self does seem to be struggling with this team. We're 6-1. That's how KU struggles. Check out UK.

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FarSideHawk 1 year, 4 months ago

Rick Majerus has passed away.

Rest in Peace, Rick. You will be missed.

2

brooksmd 1 year, 4 months ago

News of the day, Baylor 64 and Kenstinky 55, ending 55 game home win streak at Rupp.and 2nd loss of the week for Kenstinky. Love it.

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BPSkelly 1 year, 4 months ago

Self unloading on several guys individually and openly is rare. So my guess is, even what we heard at the presser was guarded. My guess is EJ and Relaford were really getting an earful behind closed doors.

I agree with the PT ideas here, but I'll point out that the reason that happens more often than not is simply that Self doesnt trust those guys yet. Now maybe he should -- I'd play Ellis and Traylor far more than they are getting now. But its obvious he trusts Young and Withey so much more that it is hurting the freshman big guys. At this point, you'd HOPE things change, but if those two arent getting 18-25 minutes per game (on average) come Big 12 time, there is a problem.

Im quite sure Self would prefer the freshman take PT from Young, but until they prove they can its hard to see them getting a ton of time out there.

I also just never bought into the idea that E.J. is a point guard. He isnt. He's a 2 with decent ball handling skills. He does have better than average vision out there. But my guess is part of his lesser performances we've seen is the fact that he's being asked to infinitely more than he's had to do before. You know... like run the KU offense? He didnt go to the rack at all last year, and if he's supposed to 'distribute' more that isnt going to improve unfortunately.

We're talented and young and fun to watch at times. Other times not so much. If we win the conference its on sheer futility of the conference, not our greatness. At least not.

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KULA 1 year, 4 months ago

Almost forgot to mention Ben, looking more and more like a natural out there. Better enjoy him while we can.

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KULA 1 year, 4 months ago

Saw some good things last night despite allowing a big game to the opposing guards again and not putting away an overmatched team. Seniors stepping up big time. Jeff had another good game, this time against pretty solid bigs. Releford becoming more assertive offensively, pushing it to the hole, with great results. Kevin growing more confident offensively and pushing the offense, going to hole, a couple of great assists and his first double digit game this year. Great assist game for EJ, but still needs to create his own shot more (if he can...). Fine showings by AW3 and Rio, and a great job by Bill, letting the two play through some mistakes, instead of the quick yank. Looks like they're both ready to start contributing more. Also glad to see Jeff (for several games now) not going above the 3pt line to pick up a guard. I'll take my chances any day with Jeff staying in the post defensively.

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jaybate 1 year, 4 months ago

"Jamari, Kevin and Perry"

Of all the players, Jamari's trend line is most worrisome to me.

He went out and made a lot of contact in his 5 minutes, as he was apparently instructed to do.

But Jamari clearly wants to be more than an enforcer.

And the blankness of his expression made that clear.

Jamari appears not to be sure what has happened to his minutes.

KY played very, very well, and Jeff played a long time, and Perry picked up his edginess factor enough to get his 15 minutes.

And Jamari seems to have let his dobber get down, as coaches in the last century used to say, without ever specifying exactly what a dobber was. :-)

Maybe Jamari had a down day emotionally.

But he started out as incredibly active and explosive and his face showed lots of emotion and joy at playing.

Now, his face is a blank.

Never like to see that trend.

Jam Tray, you are sweet and you will see time. Keep after it.

You are more than a 5 minute man, but you've got to keep lighting the candle when you get in.

Jeff can't possibly play 38 minutes too often.

Keep after it.

Kevin really, really looked comfortable out there. The first half he was a big factor. Less so the second half. And he was doing this against strong and longs, so it counts. And Self noticed because Jelly was in at the end. When you start and finish, it means Self says you've got the right stuff.

Perry: his edginess is up to required levels, but he hasn't figured out how to stay efficient at this level. He will. It will come. But I thought he had the least effect on this game of any this season. He still hasn't figured out how to get into the flow. This is not surprising, because Self has changed from trying play through him for his scoring, to reform him into a garbage 4 of the kind Marcus was his freshman year. This could be very good for Perry in the long run, if Jeff can pick up the slack in inside scoring that results from retasking the 4 as a garbage 4, and less of a TRob 4.

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Kontum1972 1 year, 4 months ago

they have lost the Spark...sometime ago....i gave up watching them 2 years ago....you really have to want too win...!

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Jay Dogger 1 year, 4 months ago

Off topic...but I would just like to say how grateful I am for HCBS and staff and the KU hoops program.

I have been reading about UCLA and their coach and program and how far it's fallen with so much talent. They just had two top recruits leave the program in the last week as well as losing to Cal Poly, which I assume would be like if we lost to UMKC (no offense to the 'Roos). I recommend reading the SI article called "Not the UCLA Way" for a hehind-the-scenes look at how things can horribly wrong, even for a Blue Blood. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/magazine/02/28/ucla/index.html

It sounds like after three straight Final Four runs that things have fallen apart due to a loss of discipline on the part of both players and head coach, recruitment of head cases, lack of work ethic, etc. I can't imagine that happening at KU with Coach Self but it's a good reminder that it can happen and sometimes does.

Josh Smith was one of the recruits that just left, due primarily to being overweight and out of shape (but there may also have been acedemic issues, too). It didn't even sound like he was definitely going to find a new place to play, so a once promising career could be over. So now former KU recruit Tony Parker is the third Big in the depth chart, but he has been playing pretty limited minutes so far this his freshman season.

Like many posters, I would have liked Parker to sign with KU but was not particularly surprised or upset that he didn't (in part because he pulled one of those moronic "hat" announcements). It's very early in his career, but I have a feeling he won't amount to much at UCLA. If he does turn into a dud it will be interesting to contemplate how he would have done at KU. He even mentioned Hudy as one of the reasons he was considering KU. And I'm not saying we need him. I got a feeling Landon Lucas will prove more valuable, not to mention Embiid.

Anyway, I just wanted to pass along a reminder of how good we have it here. Like clean running water at the flip of a knob, sometimes I take our basketball program for granted. Perhaps other posters here do too.

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jayhawkintexas 1 year, 4 months ago

We are going to have to defend the perimeter much better to beat Baylor and Okla. State. Both of those teams have great outside shooting. Step it up, guys.

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Jack Wilson 1 year, 4 months ago

Dakari Johnson news .. sounds like we're not near the front on this one due to the Embiid signing.

http://zagsblog.com/articles/calipari-others-flocking-to-see-dakari-johnson/#more-84287

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William Blake 1 year, 4 months ago

Life could be worse. We could have a gold/black tiger as a logo:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/scores/2012/11/30/michael-dixon-leaves-missouri/1737121/

I guess Dixon was juggling a couple too many balls in his life.

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leonard 1 year, 4 months ago

-- KU sped OSU's Princeton way up -- jaybate

No, we didn't speed them up. They no longer run the pure "Princeton offense".

They average 76ppg...and they got to us for 78. They average 46% from the field...and we held them to 41% They average 14 off rebounds per game...and they got 14 against us. They average a 42-37 rebound margin...we outrebounded them 35-32 but they were without the 6-10 senior, Angus Brandt (11 pts and 8 rebounds per game). They average 15 TO's per game...but only had 12 against us. Starks averages 3 treys per game...and he torched our guards for 7-13 (becoming a recurring theme).

All in all...a nice but very average performance overall. We are now going to be playing about 1 game per week prior to conference start in January. With all the quality practice time looming I look for the Jayhawks...collectively and individually...to be much improved 5 weeks from now.

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Jack Wilson 1 year, 4 months ago

Releford:

This is easy. Assert yourself, young man. I've said it now for what seems like a lifetime. The second half was an absolute thing of beauty. You can do that all the time. Take what you want. Don't take only what is given. You have an absolute, undeniable skill of getting to the rim. Make the three point stripe a secondary consideration -- slash and mid-range game. Bread and butter. All it takes is "want to", as one fine coach used to say. And this team needs you to "want to" all the time.

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Boouk 1 year, 4 months ago

As disappionting as our perimeter defense has been so far, I think this team has the potential to be as good as last years team defensively, and Self will get us to that level by March. McClemore can be better than Tyshawn Taylor defensively with his size and lateral quickness. Andrew White is a better defender than Teahan and probably as good of a shooter. This team can make a Final 4 run, but our perimeter defense must improve for that to happen.

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William Blake 1 year, 4 months ago

I love to watch CS's "flu-like" facial contortions before Christmas.

He's like the Grinch that stole Christmas... but finally releases the presents in March!

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Jack Wilson 1 year, 4 months ago

Andrew White:

Here we go. He did miss some shots, missed a bunny underneath. But regardless of whether he missed shots or not, Self proclaimed him the most effective sub. Could we be seeing a PT shift here?

First, the dude is long. No, not the kind of long that would please your wife .. the kind of long that rebounds the basketball. His wingspan is every bit what Withey brings to the table. He will get boards.

Second, his defense was acceptable. I didn't say good. Acceptable. He didn't have any big mess ups. Oh, and believe me, I was waiting for that. But he did fine. Actually was pretty good in stretches. The fouls are a product of experience. Like McLemore's I think. Heck, White should have had another foul they didn't call on the baseline where he reached in.

Third, his shooting. Don't worry. Once he gets acclimated, he'll bang down threes better than anyone we have out there. We do need that. I bet Self will tell him when he gets the guy on the pump fake, not to move two feet inside the arc. Get behind the arc. The worst shot (risk/reward) is the shot just inside the arc.

Fourth, he is active. Not afraid to drive the ball. He did that, got to the line.

Fifth, Self's lack of faith in Tharpe increased White's PT (I think), not McLemore's foul trouble. Previously, when McLemore was out, Self woud go EJ, Tharpe, Releford. Not last night as much. He shifted Releford to the 2.

Sixth, he must be earning it in practice. He got 16 minutes. Under the "earn it in practice" theory, we must be there.

Our team will be better with AW3 getting regular minutes, and once he gets his shooting legs underneath him. Hope this is the start of that.

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William Blake 1 year, 4 months ago

I thought we looked pretty good except for EJ. Problem is... without a solid PG our season will end early. Maybe EJ will heal up and start bringing it, but it isn't a good thing to live on maybes. I see small improvements with most of our young players and it is nice to see Travis, Mr. W, and Kevin step up and start looking like seniors.

If we can get a solid performance out of our PG and if we can find more ways to exploit BMac's talent on offense.. and if most of the freshmen continue to improve and contribute more... we could pull off a decent run in March.

We are going to continue to see up and down play with this young team, so get used to it. Right now, be satisfied with a win.

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Kye Clark 1 year, 4 months ago

On another note, I'm hoping Self's zone comments are a bluff, or simply said out of frustration, at least at this point. I've long been a proponent of us playing some zone in stretches, but just as something to have in your bag to slow down hot offenses or to make up for defensive deficiencies created by foul trouble or injuries. I've said this before regarding zones, but they are only effective if you practice them extensively and are comfortable in the individual responsibilities. It's not simply "go guard this space." If you're team isn't proficient in executing a zone defense, it will lead to more fouls, more open looks, and obviously poorer rebounding. With this many young players seeing minutes, if they aren't good enough playing M2M defense, how good can we honestly expect them to be at executing a zone?

The fear is that EJ's knee is worse than feared and isn't going to get better anytime soon; maybe it won't improve all season. And if so, Self's comments could be a sign of his acknowledgement of this and realizing to keep him on the court he is going to have to get creative to hide him on defense.

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Kye Clark 1 year, 4 months ago

I agree with Jaybate, to an extent. I was more pleased with this game than most others this season. Here is what I liked from this game:

  • Only 9 3-point attempts. I believe it's Oakville that preaches keeping those attempts down, and 9 attempts is pretty low.

  • AW3 getting some extended minutes. When he was in the game I watched him pretty close. His defense was decent, on offense he generally kept the ball moving and occasionally looked to be aggressive, and 6 rebounds was great. When his 3-pointers start falling more regularly, I think his confidence is going to go through the roof.

  • While Rio didn't get the same extended minutes AW3 did, I liked what I saw from him when he was in there. Loved his drives to the hoop. He scored on one, and had a perhaps ill-advised pass to Withey that resulted in a turnover, but both instances show he's looking to create offense when he's in there and not meekly passing the ball around the perimeter. I saw glimpses of Tyshawn in Rio's performance. I am really stoked about both AW3 & Rio's ceilings.

  • Mclemore in the first half, Travis in the second. We definitely need one of the two to be carrying the scoring load for us, especially until Perry develops into that reliable post threat.

  • Speaking of Perry, I am glad to see the minute distribution between him and Traylor being the way it was. 15 for Perry, 5 for Traylor. I would still like to see Perry's minutes increase to 20+ (although it's hard to argue that Young is better right now), and he's got to be able to get more rebounds while he's in there, but just in terms of his playing time in relation to Traylors', this was better than most other games this season. At this point, Traylor still looks like a project when out on the court. I think his physique (and the stories about him & TRob "going at it" everyday in practice last year 2nd semester) lead fans to mistake him for a superior rebounder & defender, but really that hasn't been the case yet.

Sure there were times I threw my arms up in the air during the game. McLemore's foul trouble clearly threw him off rhythm. Wesley entering the game late was a head-scratcher. And the biggest concern is the offensive droughts and suspect defense at times that let big leads disappear, but there were plenty of positives to take away from the game.

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Jack Wilson 1 year, 4 months ago

Lots of great comments above.

First, Adams vs. Tharpe:

One item that I thought of as the second have started was who the first point guard sub would be for EJ. It ended up being Tharpe. But I was wondering. Self was obviously not happy with Tharpe. EJ couldn't keep up with Starks, but man, Tharpe definitely couldn't. Tharpe is small, but he isn't quick. That's a tough combo.

I hesitate to take this step -- but could we be seeing a changing of the guard here a bit? Could Adams be inching closer to displacing Tharpe?

For that to happen, here is what's needed from Self on that -- simply the same faith he placed in Taylor his freshman (and really sophomore) years, the same stomach for mistakes -- extend that to Adams. It is way obvious that Adams has more talent, defensively, taking it to the hoop, creating. I don't think I'm off base here.

There are two problems with going to Adams, and I hate to harp on the first one. Ball-handling. Adams just isn't as sure dribbling the ball under pressure. Tharpe is safer in that regard. The second one is obvious. Turnovers. Adams will lose us possession.

I said a few weeks ago that Tharpe is the better answer right now over Adams. I still have that feeling. But the defensive liabilities are huge. Tharpe is giving effort. But he can't guard the big guard, he's not quick, can't keep up with the little guy. Limits options on switching -- meaning it's hard to move Tharpe off the point because of size issues if Releford were to guard the point.

It seems to me that this is about upside. We've talked about it many times here. Does Self think Adams has more upside that Tharpe? If he does, can he suck it up and just go to Adams. Accept the downside. Take the risky move to attempt to make this team better in March. Give Adams that chance to learn under fire. But we know the chances of Self moving outside of his comfort zone to be limited -- we're seeing some cracks, though. It seems clear that he's not sold on Tharpe at all.

And this is not just about this year. It may be about a roster spot. I believe that Adams right now is the most likely transfer candidate, based solely on talent coming in and numbers for 2013. But if he overtakes Tharpe, Tharpe suddenly becomes that guy. If that happened, Tharpe's sitting there with Adams (a class behind him) suddenly being ahead of him, other point candidates coming in. That would be it.

I do like Tharpe. Decent shooter. Improved handling the ball. Steady in his role. But can you see him being our starting point guard for the next two years? That's more difficult.

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Beate Williams 1 year, 4 months ago

Agree with the analysis by Jaybate, but believe one thing is missing and haven't heard anyone mention it, i.e., Sparks got many of those points after getting a screen from a 300 pounder. Why is that important, it is difficult to move a three hundred pounder and you have no choice other than to go under the screen, therefore giving the shooter 2-3 feet of open space and if you noticed many of the shots Spark took were NBA 3s and thet's because the screens were being set so far out, pushing the shooter further out.

You don't want to be in that situation but we are not going to run up against many 300 pounders screening a shooter like Sparks. I think, at least in the second half, the runs that OSU made were always when Self was experimenting, testing his bench.

Haven't figured out why Withey's timing was off, that is the first time I have seen him repeatedly leap too soon. Maybe it is what a previous poster said, he was thinking about his press and was trying too hard. Anyway, I think it was a very good win. I am so thankful for ESPN3, can't record the game but at least I get to watch when the game is not televised nationally.

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Jeremy Paul 1 year, 4 months ago

Some harsh words from Self toward EJ. I like it. Challenge him.

Releford is the most important player on the team, and he will bail them out more than any other player this year.

I think Rio is going to be a good one. Once the freshman jitters wear off, he'll be a huge asset.

Don't ever underestimate the ability of this coaching staff. The hallmark of good coaching is improvement throughout the season, and Self et al have proven through the years that they can coach and teach and their teams get better week by week. With all the youngsters this year and the loss of their two leaders, it will take their best coaching job yet. But there is a hell of a lot of talent on this team and I think when February rolls around, our Jayhawks will be rolling. Just be patient everyone and enjoy the ride. Rock Chalk!

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jayhawkeratheart 1 year, 4 months ago

November is gone, and we have won Our guys did the job, and lost only one With new guys and new names, the games not the same But Bill’s getting the job done, with whatever’s his name Now some have been good and some have been bad But in the end the point total was not sad, For a win is a win, and you can bet on one thing That all of the guys are doing their thing, to keep up the wins And restore the pride, that has always been there stride after stride Rock chalk is the scream, and winnings the dream, C’mon big guys, keep looking up stream For the wins will come, and March will appear Then all can look back on another big year With EJ, and Ben, Withey and Young, Releford running The game will be fun, Tharpe and the bench will come alive As we all write our comments, and give out high fives

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Kevin Studer 1 year, 4 months ago

On another note, Conner Frankamp had a monster season-debut game last night at Wichita Northwest.

http://www.varsitykansas.com/2012/12/01/41537/frankamp-scores-46-as-north-wallops.html

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Jay Dogger 1 year, 4 months ago

Does anyone understand why Wesley was in at the end of the game? Compared to Withey and probably the other three Bigs (none of who were in foul trouble) his defense isn't very good and his free throw shooting is terrible. He hadn't played yet in the game, either. No intended slight to him, I was just surprised to see it at that point in the game. Anyone with any insight to the matter?

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Jay Dogger 1 year, 4 months ago

I guess it's a typical November, but with four Seniors and three returning starters I thought we would be further along at this point. I suppose good team ball is harder than it looks, but I expect that in a couple of months this team will make it look easier than it is.

Nice to see Releford playing more aggressive on the offensive end. I'm sure HEM will appreciate it, too. But I hope Rele can play that way more consistantly and in more venues than the Sprint Center. I don't think he's hit his ceiling yet. Self said he could be a 1,000-point scorer for KU. He may not accomplish that but I would like to see him go for it. He certainly will get the minutes so it's in his hands.

I was glad to see Adams and White get more minutes. They didn't look great but I think it will be good for learning. I felt like this game for Adams was the best glimpse so far as to how he may play later on down the road. Did he remind anyone of Tyshawn? We should be so lucky, despite and including that rediculous over-the-back pass.

I still want to see White get more minutes but he didn't look like the pure shooter we all believe him to be. Regardless, it will be fun to watch his game develop, hopefully sooner rather than later.

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Michael Luby 1 year, 4 months ago

Oh yah, one more thing. Gary, the croud wasnt as quiet as you say though. There were quite a few roudy fans there last night, me included as I came away from that game without a voice. But the Sprint Center is more open than AFH so the noise gets muted a bit in there.

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David Black 1 year, 4 months ago

I can't believe I am saying this but Jaybate..you got it and it did not take a really long post! Rock Chalk

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jaybate 1 year, 4 months ago

• Well, I'm really a minority of one this time, because I think this was a break through game. I think KU played a good game.KU played as a team. KU sped OSU's Princeton way up, and shot 60% from the field by shooting high percentage looks. We held this annoying Princeton offence to 45% from the field by guarding it hard. We stood up to all their muscling each time they fell behind ten and started hack'n'shove. We outrebounded them despite their weight advantage and Withey being forced to chase. We killed them defensive glass vs defensive glass. EJ got 9 assists and 2:1 assist to TO in a running game. Ben and Trav broke out each for a half. AW3 became viable option. Rio took a small step. Evan showed he could not suck in his first real taste of D1.

• This was really KU's second real game of the season. OSU was a big, long, solid team. They played rough. They run the Princeton. KU wasnt mature enough to knock out a Princeton team, but they were good enough to beat it.

• Princeton's make everyone look bad. A 6 point win over a Princeton = a 12 point win over a conventional system.

• Self could really only complain about EJ guarding on ball, no one locking down Sparks, team TOs, and losing the Disruption Stat and not keeping them off the offensive glass. Well, duh. EJ's got a bad knee. Sparks is good and scraping everyone off on Princeton picks. Self told them to run TO's rise, when u run. And the Princeton forces Jeff away from the basket so cuts his blocks, which was the only way KU has been winning the disruption stat, because...EJ is playing without a knee, and Trav and Ben have to help him so much they can't pressure either.

• If EJ doesn't heal, some zone is inevitable, as I suggested early on. And with Aw3 coming on finally, this team's perimeter length could make it a good zone team. And a zone keeps Jeff in the paint.

• Ben is so athletic that he makes a 1-3-1 feasible with him roaming baseline.

• But EJ is getting better healthwise, so it will be zone to keep Jeff in the paint.

• Self is really turning up the pressure on EJ to make the team rally around him. Its working.

• The whole team is starting to get how hard they have too play. This is great progress. A couple more games playing this hard and they will get the hang of playing effectively at this level, too.

• A good win against an underrated Princeton team.

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RJ King 1 year, 4 months ago

Why does this team constantly need to be challenged?

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actorman 1 year, 4 months ago

I posted this elsewhere but haven't gotten a response so I'm still wondering:

Can someone explain what happened with Chris Piper? I thought he was going to be the regular KU analyst alongside Bob Davis, but now he's back doing games on TV again. I've always liked him so I'm glad to see him again, but I'm curious about what happened.

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JHWKDW 1 year, 4 months ago

A tough battle.They got to rebound better on defense. Hey a win is a win. We still have room to improve, but I think we will. And I agree to the front runners know when to do the rock chalk chant. I Think Coach Self will get all the kinks figured out before conference time.

Boy it be great to play and be a part of the Pac-12. Equal revenue sharing, more respect than the Big XII-2, no more being a Tier 3 school. Well we can only hope to be a part of a great conference like the Pac-12 instead of the lousy Big XII-2

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Michael Sillman 1 year, 4 months ago

Withey did not bail out the guards much tonight on defense. He was committing too quickly to going for the block letting the OSU players hesitate on their shot so they could put it up over him. Usually he has more patience while keeping his feet on the ground. In addition, he was not much of a force on the boards tonight with only 5 rebounds.

All of the guards including Johnson were going underneath the screens tonight. Piper was right when he said that we would play good D for 32 seconds then let that little guard get open for a three.

Hopefully it was a learning experience. A win's a win.

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Brian Powell 1 year, 4 months ago

Glad to hear the emphasis on driving the ball to the rim... Been waiting for that one.

From what I've seen, zone should only be the answer to a specific thing based on a specific opponent -- not based on your defense or lack thereof.

Guys that can't play effective Man defense usually can't play effective Zone. In a lot of ways, it's harder! Sure you keep guys outside the paint a little easier, but if they ANY shooters on the team - you're done.

Back to the ole Play D. Or Sit rule.

I like Rio, at least he has some hustle on D. It's a wash on O, because he makes bad plays and awesome plays, but at least he can guard the ball pretty well (for his first month).

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phogphan2000 1 year, 4 months ago

14 offensive rebounds for Oregon St. Have to improve the defensive rebounding, it's been the same thing every game. Releford needs to stay aggressive with the ball all the time, that's what this team is supposed to have going for it, 5 guys always looking to make a play. W wants the ball, Young wants it, Ellis wants the ball, BMac definitely does until crunch time, EJ wants the help, Releford has to want to be looking to make things happen when he gets the ball. Things haven't really gone EJ's way, but I've still got tons of faith in that young man and think he'll get better and better as the team develops. W showed some nice touch a couple times and started making FT's again, Perry Ellis played a little tougher I thought. Releford hit the glass better, best part of AW3's game is still the rebounding, good thing W was able to play 37 mins 'cause Traylor didn't play well in his limited minutes. Nice to see 'Rio get a little time in, just too bad he got the minutes based on Tharpe playing so poorly. I think a step was taken tonight towards Ellis starting and White being the first small off the bench, which was a bit of a surprise. AW3 looked pretty limited offensively though, would rather Tharpe or 'Rio step up and be that 1st small off the bench.

The CU game may not seem that big, but it's huge, not many opportunities to get decent OOC wins this year, so this has to be taken advantage of, 'cause OSU after they lost that game to Duke and with all the revenge on their minds is going to be incredibly difficult.

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gimmetheclaw78 1 year, 4 months ago

The premature Rock Chalk chant was disgraceful. Please try to pay attention and Know the game, supposed Kansas fans. I hope whoever was sitting behind you slapped you in the back of your head. (Not that you'd be reading this...).

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EverRisingHawk 1 year, 4 months ago

Defense is a hallmark of Self teams, so I can't imagine how frustrating this is for him. I wouldn't want to be in the locker room after an unranked cupcake team scores 78 on our 10 ranked Hawks

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EverRisingHawk 1 year, 4 months ago

Wow, we need someone to step up and lead via intensity. Tyshawn and TRob were those guys last year. Their energy was a barometer for team success. This year we have a phenom in McLemore, but we lack that fire in a vocal leader. Time for someone to step up.

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