Thursday, November 29, 2012

Kansas’ Andrew White III student of game

Kansas newcomer Andrew White.

Kansas newcomer Andrew White.


A student of the game of basketball, particularly the art of shooting, Kansas University freshman guard Andrew White III regularly pores over film of NBA greats Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant, Dirk Nowitzki and Reggie Miller.

The CliffsNotes version of what the 6-foot-6, 210-pounder from Richmond, Va., has picked up on tape:

“Reggie was a cold killer. His mentality, cockiness. He knew he was a good shooter. That’s a lot of what made him a great player,” White said of the former Indiana Pacers phenom.

“I like the follow-through Dirk has,” White added of the Dallas Mavericks’ sensation.

“What I see in Kobe the most ... he knows how to create separation just with his body, his shoulder movement,” he noted of the Lakers’ star. “Ray Allen (Miami Heat) gets his feet set and parallel quick. He gets his shot off quick. There’s a lot I take from everybody. I’m always looking at shooters specifically to see what they are doing well.”

White, who has cashed two of five three-pointers while playing sparingly in four of KU’s first six games, believes he knows exactly what it will take to start to earn meaningful minutes and perhaps someday have a career that rivals his favorites.

“What we are going to do in the next hour ... that’s the best way to get through to coach (Bill Self). You’ve got to compete,” White said, speaking right before Wednesday’s practice. “With coach, if you are confident, working hard, defending, rebounding, keeping a competitive edge, that’s what will get you on the court. At this level, it’s not about shooting or defending, it’s about how much a coach trusts you on both ends of the court.”

White, who acknowledged he is a patient person, has found a way to energize himself. Instead of complaining about the four minutes of playing time he received in KU’s last game against San Jose State, he savors each and every second of that stint.

“I get out there and play as hard as I can for that minute, two minutes. I enjoy being out there just for the time I am. That’s my motivation to push for more minutes,” White said. “I know I shoot the ball well. I know defense is something you have to do to stay on the court. I think I’m a good rebounder. I think my defense is coming along. We have a talented group with a lot of guys older than me. There are a lot of things I can do better. Coach wants to see the best out of all of us.”

White, who averaged 23 points and 10 rebounds a game last season at Miller School in Charlottesville, Va., said it took him awhile to adjust to the speed of the college game.

“You’ve got to make decisions on the fly,” he said. “That’s a big part of the game, being able to react quickly.”

Self said he has high hopes for White, who against SJSU was 0-for-1 from the field, 1-for-2 from the free-throw line and had a steal.

“What he does best now is shoot it,” Self said. “I’m OK with that. Taking care of the ball, understanding a little bit more what we’re doing ... Andrew is going to be a good player. He reminds me a lot of Conner (Teahan). It’s going to take him a little bit of time to get comfortable. He only played four minutes the other day. I thought he actually did well in the four minutes he was out there.”

Elijah’s OK: Self said senior Elijah Johnson, who had some knee swelling after the Nov. 20 game against Saint Louis, should be ready for Friday’s game against Oregon State (7 p.m., Sprint Center).

“He should be fine moving forward,” Self said, noting Johnson has to get to the free-throw line more. He has made six of seven all season. “I learned a long time ago, if you are out there, you have to perform. There’s nothing structurally going on with him, so if he doesn’t have quite the same pop he had before, then he shouldn’t be out there because if you are out there, we expect it. That’s the way it is with any athlete. I learned that from Keith Langford’s mother back when Keith played. I kept saying, ‘But his knee is bothering him.’ She said, “Whoa, whoa, whoa ... if he’s out there he’s got to produce or he shouldn’t be out there.’” That is the reality of it. He’s got to produce.”

Shuffling: Self commented on realignment in the wake of Wednesday’s announcement that Louisville had joined the ACC.

“It’s amazing to me the movement that could potentially occur in the immediate future,” Self said. “Everybody thought it was pretty much status quo, and there’s one guy working it behind the scenes that’s really good that has now changed the whole landscape of what’s going on, and that’s (Big Ten commissioner) Jim Delany. With what he’s done with the Big Ten (adding Rutgers, Maryland), it’s now caused a trickle down.

“The SEC is going to poach somebody now,” Self said. “They’re going to go to 16. The ACC is going to have 16. But, the SEC may poach the ACC, so now that’s going to screw that number up. So where are we on this stuff? I sure Mr. Bowlsby (Bob, Big 12 commissioner) and the presidents are in discussion about at least procedurally what would be our next move? ... We are going to stay at 10, which is the perfect number, but going forward is that really reasonable to be at 10 when everybody else is gonna go (16)?”

Self said he thought the Big 12 was solid.

“With the situation with the SEC and the Big 12 in football, the alliance, the new television deal, I mean, we are in great shape. I don’t feel like there’s any need to rush to do anything.”

“I do think there should be talks in case, a contingency plan. Who knows where that will go moving forward?”

Volleyball: Self applauded the efforts of KU’s NCAA-bound volleyball team at his weekly news conference. Of the fact his basketball team plays Oregon State at 7 p.m. Friday in Kansas City, Mo., and the volleyball team plays at 6:30 p.m. Friday against Cleveland State in Allen Fieldhouse, Self said: “I said last night (on his radio show), I don’t want our fans not to come to the Sprint Center to go support volleyball. If they have basketball tickets, come to basketball. Go to see Ray (Bechard, volleyball coach) the next day (Saturday in second round if KU wins Friday). But if you’re not planning on going to the basketball game, then go watch Ray and his team because they are fun to watch.”

Famous coach: Oregon State is coached by Craig Robinson, brother-in-law of President Barack Obama. Robinson played for the Princeton team that knocked Self’s Oklahoma State team out of the 1983 NCAA Tournament in the first round.


dylans 8 years, 10 months ago

Here's hoping that AW3 is able to work his way onto the court soon. I really like his shot (from the limited amount I've seen). I think if his d can catch up he'll see significant minutes. Whether its this season or two from now is what I'm curious about.

Good luck Andrew!

Dirk Medema 8 years, 10 months ago

"catch up" to what?

D to his O? His D to others' (Releford's) D?

Personally, I don't see either happening this year, though he should be in a position to contribute (more than 4 min) by the 2nd half of this season. Next year though should be when he's ready to really compete.

dylans 8 years, 10 months ago

Uhh, I was trying to be diplomatic about his terrible defense. If you can't play D you don't play for Bill.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 10 months ago

You really needed a clarification? I'll have to pull out some of my old technical writing courses.

Wouldn't think they were necessary for writing comments.

hawk316 8 years, 10 months ago

Yeah, but what a great attitude this kid has. Good things come to those who wait. If he can continue to be patient, while working very hard, this young man will have much to contribute in the years ahead.

Joe Satterwhite 8 years, 10 months ago

Rooting for ya AW3....I know you have what it takes to be a star at KU just keep competing hard

KULA 8 years, 10 months ago

Reminds him of Conner? Yikes! Does that mean he'll have to redshirt and be here 5 years before he gets some meaningful playing time?

ljmhawk 8 years, 10 months ago

I'm pretty sure he's talking about his shot

KansasComet 8 years, 10 months ago

Does not remind me of Conner. Not big on comparisons, but I hope Andrew White fills up the basket like Terry Brown.

KJ Quartermaine 8 years, 10 months ago

Every time I see Andrew referred to as AW3, I want a root beer. A&W is my root beer of choice

KJ Quartermaine 8 years, 10 months ago

The long forgotten Alex Galindo had the prettiest form on his jumper of any payer during the Bill Self era, IMO

Michael Pannacciulli 8 years, 10 months ago

Can't even recall seeing him shoot. My fav KU shooter was Billy Thomas.

milehighhawk 8 years, 10 months ago

What about the long-forgotten Xavier Henry?

kranny 8 years, 10 months ago

Imagine Kellogg's pts if the trey had been put in.

Jim Roth 8 years, 10 months ago

Mr. Saturday! How many 30 point games on Saturdays? Before the 3pt line!

bayareajhawk 8 years, 10 months ago

I went to Roy Williams basketball camp as a kid one year and Kellogg was the counselor assigned to my group. I was just a kid and had never heard of him before that camp but I will never forget what a great guy he was.

We had similar senses of humor and did a lot of joking around during water breaks and practice dead time. I would challenge him to free throw contests after the practices and we would heckle each other while we were rebounding to try and get the other guy to miss. The closest I came to beating him was hitting 8 out of 10 when he hit 9. I was a decent free throw shooter and always hit 7 or 8 out of 10, and had to go first as the challenger. He never hit fewer than 8 out of 10, and usually hit 9 or all 10. And they looked pretty going in every time.

He has such a beautiful jump shot but more importantly he is a great guy. He would have gotten his paycheck either way for that camp but he took a little extra time to joke around with some 13 year old punk kid, and those are the moments I always remember from that week of camp.

That, and accidentally stepping on Roy's bare foot when taking the token picture with him! I was a gawky kid with big feet and when they told me to get closer to him I barely stepped on his toe. He gave me a lot of grief and made me feel like an idiot. And he was pretty much my hero at the time. Not one of my finest moments...

Steve Gantz 8 years, 10 months ago

His teammate Calvin ..... Thompson? could fill it up from the outside too. That 86 my first year on campus, what a year!

Ron Prichard 8 years, 10 months ago

I had a poster as a kid of Ron Kellog and Calvin Thompson posing in their Topeka Sizzlers uniforms. Anybody remember that mistake of a professional basketball league? Still, I loved that poster.

Cameron Cederlind 8 years, 10 months ago

Only closely followed by the famous Morningstar free throw

SaltLakeHawk 8 years, 10 months ago

I always wanted to see Cole lock, load, and drain his freethrow shot, but from 3, and during a live play.

alittlecurious 8 years, 10 months ago

John Douglas... still owns the KU record for most points scored at an away game... 3 point shots were nonexistent at the time.

Tom Longhofer 8 years, 10 months ago

JOHN DOUGLAS - my all time favorite Jayhawk - probably because he played while I was a student. Remember the brawl with Missouri (January '77, I believe - during Christmas break)?

One of the most exciting games I ever saw in Allen.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 10 months ago was my first year at KU but wasn't at the game.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 10 months ago

Aw...c'mon you guys....never heard of a guy named Jo Jo White??!!

Timothy Rake 8 years, 10 months ago

Exxxactly! JoJo was sweet. Even when it didn't count (vs. UTEP)

John Randall 8 years, 10 months ago

That wasn't UTEP – it was Texas Western, the only 'directional' school to ever win the NCAA tourney.

Even if the Regional Final was bogus. Jo-Jo was NOT out of bounds!

Woody Cragg 8 years, 10 months ago

What a big prime time player! I was hottern' little sister's butt when he was called out of bounds on that shot.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 10 months ago

He did say during the Bill Self era but if we can go further back, I'll stop with Paul Pierce. Best step back jump shot that I've seen from anyone not named Kobe.

Sam Constance 8 years, 10 months ago

Brandon Rush. Easy.

I honestly don't remember Galindo's jumper.

(btw, am I the only one who saw that the original comment specified BILL SELF ERA?)

Timothy Rake 8 years, 10 months ago

I think Bill Self WAS born before JoJo made THE shot (that didn't count). Now doesn't that count as during Bill Self's era??? Ha!

Jeff Suther 8 years, 10 months ago

White should have taken a redshirt. He may be transferring after this year.

Tomas 8 years, 10 months ago

Andrew has excellent psyche coincident to his physicality. Andrew is a star in the making and he'll be playing key minutes in our Conference games, and more importantly, in our Tournament games. Great mental outlook regarding Andrew's practice / game preparation. Great story!!!

Martin Rosenblum 8 years, 10 months ago

"...Oregon State is coached by Craig Robinson, brother-in-law of President Barack Obama. Robinson played for the Princeton team that knocked Self’s Oklahoma State team out of the 1983 NCAA Tournament in the first round."

Wow, that's real motivation for HCBS to want to beat this team!

I didn't think the "Princeton style" play would have been effective against a B12/Big8 team, especially one playing "Okieball" as Jaybate has coined it. Maybe Michele and BHO were part of Princeton's fanbase.


Michael Gentemann 8 years, 10 months ago

We may need Jaybate's expertise here, but if I'm not mistaken, that era of OSU ball was the Paul Hansen era who was an Abe Lemon-type okie baller (offense) and not the Henry Iba-type okie baller (defense). I don't believe true Iba ball came back to Stillwater until Eddie Sutton returned.

RJ King 8 years, 10 months ago

Michele likely, as she was 2 years behind Craig at Princeton. BHO probably not - he would've been finishing at Columbia or working already. But the story of Michele asking her brother to play a pick up game with her new boyfriend - in order to vet him - is a classic.

I think HCBS's main motivation to want to beat OSU is to not lose to a Pac 12 school. Oregon State has a couple of 4 star seniors and two or three 3 stars on their roster, but not a lot of height. Point guard smaller than Tharpe

John Randall 8 years, 10 months ago

Maybe Michele was a fan, Barry at that time was in NYC supporting himself as the live-in-other to a few fat cats. Or that may have been the year his Pakistani roomies took him to Pak, Africa, Russia on a trumped up passport.

SaltLakeHawk 8 years, 10 months ago


I heard Obama's a muslim AND an atheist!

Obviously can't be trusted

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 10 months ago

This thread has gotten off to a rough start. Some suggesting that Self thinks he's Conner 2.0, some saying he may transfer, comparing him to players who could shoot but were not athletic.

I know I said this yesterday but I am pretty sure that the Conner comparison was Self's way of suggesting that he has similar (by type, not magnitude) strengths and weaknesses that Conner had. He's got great form and a sweet shot. Conner from the first day of his freshman year was known as an excellent shooter. He was also unplayable because of a lack of athleticism. By strength and conditioning training, offseason workouts, and practice he was able to build up his base well enough that he could slide his feet and change direction quickly enough to allow him to use his length to guard smaller players. He was always a shooter, but he had to build himself into a player.

White will improve this year on defense because his legs will get stronger and he'll get more practice keeping his man in front of him, but he's going to make a big step change in the offseason because of Andrea Hudy. She'll give him a training regimen that make the freshman AWIII look like Mr. Chicken Legs. He'll have much more quickness, stopping ability, change of direction after a full year of traning. By next season he should have a whole new explosivity to his game. After all that then it comes down to, as Self puts it "learning what we're doing".

Not every Sophomore yet understands the offensive and defensive movements to limit their on court mistakes. But if AWIII truly is a student of the game and prepares and works like his reputation suggests that he does, then he will be a totally different player this time next year.

dylans 8 years, 10 months ago

He needs to do 1000 side to sides a week instead of shooting 1000 jumpers a day. His defense and unfamiliarity to the system is keeping him off the court.

Brianna Zaleski 8 years, 10 months ago

I think this article has dispelled most notions of him transferring. It seems like he knows that getting meaningful mins is a work in progress and it seems he's up to it.

Don't be so pessimistic, pessimisisticjayhawk

REHawk 8 years, 10 months ago

Zig, I came away from this article with similar feelings. And not to denigrate the contribution of Conner T., whose development was huge by his final season; but I think AW3 is structured as a purer basketball player. HEM has promoted Andrew's potential from the getgo. I have learned to read very carefully the opinions of that poster. Gotta hope that this recruit really does possess the patience to stay the Jayhawk course. Sooner or later he looks bound to light up some scoring columns and become a major player in Winning KU Basketball.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 10 months ago

Also agree..he sounds like he knows what the coaches want and is willing to put in the work needed to get more playing time.

I think this kid will be a major contributor to this team in the near future.

wrwlumpy 8 years, 10 months ago

Jayhawk fans observe every nuance. AW was the one who came in for 4 minutes, got the steal and then got the intentional which caused EJ to step in. Self wants Traylor and Withey to step in. They have got to quit being nice guys on the court. Robinson's quirking mean attitude made all players afraid of him. We know Reli and EJ won't back down. I remember once when Raef got punched and we found out that he also had the attitude.

AW getting the 4 minutes and not Rio is telling. We will need AW's gun when Conference starts. In an interview, Morningstar said he knew he would never get on the court until he could cover his man. I think we'll see AW in two weeks, not 5 years.

RJ King 8 years, 10 months ago

Echo. One nuance observed in the SJS game was that at one point Rio was ready to check in. But before that happened the lead started to blow up and Self switched back to the starters so as not to let it get away.

We need the starters to step on the gas at all times in hopes of getting the newbies some significant minutes. Obviously a win-win.

jaybate 8 years, 10 months ago

Self said he though AW3 played pretty well in what appeared clean up minutes with a 20+ point lead that then vanished. I was glad to hear Self thought he played well.

wrwlumpy 8 years, 10 months ago

Also the KC Star tells us Why M Dixon was suspended at MU.

Sad, all this, but it seems that Dixon is following in the footsteps of Anthony Peeler.

REHawk 8 years, 10 months ago

Andrew, while you are focusing studiously on great shooters in the NBA game, take some moments to reflect upon the recent history and development of players who have made great strides over time in the Bill Self System. Currently, Jeff and Travis, a pair of 5th year stars, stand forth as terrific examples. Teahan, Reed, the Morris twins, T-Rob, D. Jackson, Kaun, Morningstar. These players made huge advances after their initial struggles in the system. For a variety of reasons, Tyshawn Taylor did not really get his game completely focused and together until the final semester of his senior year. If you stay the course and make use of Ms Hudy's training facilities, your intense practices this season with a nationally ranked lineup will soon pay huge dividends. Bill Self has recruited some terrific players for next season. However, we all know that Coach relies as much as possible on experienced Jayhawks. Most fans on this site sense that your potential bears a huge upside...and that some night soon your college game will progress to the point that you can stay on the court long enough to light up a scoresheet.

Kevin Huffman 8 years, 10 months ago

Probably a lot like this year where only the truly GREAT (top 25 talented) McLemore's made noise among freshmen, I would suspect that we'll see similar things next year and ONLY have Selden and/or MAYBE if we get Randle or Da. Johnson really produce next year from the get-go.

Brian Leiker 8 years, 10 months ago

Frankcamp will not be riding pine. He was by far and away the best player this summer even when playing with Parker. He's pretty athletic and too smart to keep off the floor.

sleepy33 8 years, 10 months ago

Agree with this, studying current NBA players for their form is one thing, but the style of play is so different from college ball. Study some historically great players and teams, both college and NBA. How a team plays is just as important as the mechanics of how a player shoots.

Chris1955 8 years, 10 months ago

Anyone wish to speculate on Bill Self's comments regarding conference realignment as shown below......

Self commented on realignment in the wake of Wednesday’s announcement that Louisville had joined the ACC.

“It’s amazing to me the movement that could potentially occur in the immediate future,” Self said. “Everybody thought it was pretty much status quo, and there’s one guy working it behind the scenes that’s really good that has now changed the whole landscape of what’s going on, and that’s (Big Ten commissioner) Jim Delany. With what he’s done with the Big Ten (adding Rutgers, Maryland), it’s now caused a trickle down.

“The SEC is going to poach somebody now,” Self said. “They’re going to go to 16. The ACC is going to have 16. But, the SEC may poach the ACC, so now that’s going to screw that number up. So where are we on this stuff? I sure Mr. Bowlsby (Bob, Big 12 commissioner) and the presidents are in discussion about at least procedurally what would be our next move? ... We are going to stay at 10, which is the perfect number, but going forward is that really reasonable to be at 10 when everybody else is gonna go (16)?”

Self said he thought the Big 12 was solid.

“With the situation with the SEC and the Big 12 in football, the alliance, the new television deal, I mean, we are in great shape. I don’t feel like there’s any need to rush to do anything.”

“I do think there should be talks in case, a contingency plan. Who knows where that will go moving forward?”

Bring on the speculation.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 10 months ago

I'm disappointed that Louisville is going to the ACC and not the Big 12. They seemed to be a natural fit, especially if Memphis also came.

I think it's apparent that the six major conferences will whittle down to four. The Big 12 needs to expand if it's going to remain one of the four. I think we will eventually become a 16 team conference but we need to be more aggressive and proactive.

Robert Brock 8 years, 10 months ago

Dang the torpedoes (and the GOR); KU to the B1G.

lawerencejayhawk 8 years, 10 months ago

Facts from Lawerence Andrew White was our best player in Europe

From the Kansas 2012/13 Basketball Media Guide: 2012 led Kansas in scoring with 11 points per game on KUs Europe trip to Switzerland and Paris in 2012. Came off the bench in 3 of 4 games, starting the finale in Paris, made a game high 8 - 3 pointers. Also led the team with 8 steals including 3 twice and 2 once. Scored in double figures in 3 of 4 games, made multiple 3s in 3 of 4 games played in KUs 83-79 win against KUs national team. Had a game high 16 pts on 6 of 9 shooting. Including 2 4 3 from 3 point range. Defensively - led in steals Offensively- led in points and 3 point percentage

AW3, glad to have you as part of our team!

RJ King 8 years, 10 months ago

mouth watering over carte blanche shooting from AW3.

jaybate 8 years, 10 months ago

"Comparing AW3 and Conner"

Part 1

Comparing AW3 to Conner seems apt so far, whether or not Self is making the comparison publicly to discourage other coaches from poaching him, as Self takes a couple years to develop him (Self seems a little tired of Quintrel and Royce and Milton taking powders for more PT, thus leaving him short handed), or to lower fan expectations and get them off Self's and AW3's backs.


~Both come from strong, intact and religious families.

~Both Conner and AW3 start out as trifectates. As a freshman logging clean up minutes, Conner shot 50%. AW3 is shooting 40% in the same minimal role.

~AW3 is 6-6. Conner was 6-5.

~Conner was a great quarterback and a Missouri state Mr. Basketball with quite a few non blue blood D1 offers. Conner was a walk on at KU, because his father could afford it and KU was short of rides his freshman season due to RoyGate sanctions. Otherwise, Conner would have probably have gotten a ride. AW3 was, according to an LJW story noting AW3's father, wanted by 24 other schools, but neither a Mr. Basketball nor a great high school quarterback, and so probably not quite as versatile and natural an athlete as Conner. On the other hand, AW3 was more highly ranked by recruiting gurus going in, because of his added length coupled with his great shooting, not apparently because of greater athleticism, at least based on what we've seen of it so far.

~Conner struggled mightily with footwork on defense his freshman year and with getting in the flow of the offense his freshman year. AW3 has too.

~Conner seemed smart. AW3 seems smart.

~Conner seemed more of a natural shooter. AW3 seems more of a by-the-numbers shooter. But either way, both reputedly stunning practice shooters and both evidence above average trifectation as freshman.


~AW3 passes the eye test. Conner does not.

~Early on, i.e., after Europe, and early in practice, Self said AW3 would be the first guy off the bench on the perimeter. But then something happened. Maybe his defensive weakness surfaced as contact increased. Maybe he struggled with learning the offense as all 1000 pages began to hit. Maybe he did something to get in Self's dog house. Maybe of late he got some nagging injuries. Whatever, he got marginalized from the rotation. In contrast, Conner was never talked about as being first off the bench his freshman season, though Self did talk about wanting to get his shooting in the game somehow.

~AW3, as a freshman, looks injured, judging from the quilts increasingly covering his legs. Conner seemed not to be injured his freshman year.

jaybate 8 years, 10 months ago

Part 2

~Conner, having played football, appeared less daunted by the physical contact than AW3, as XTReme Muscle escalated sharply over the course of his 5 years in college basketball. AW3 seems to be coping okay, but has to start out in a much more violent D1 game than Conner did six seasons ago. (Note: 6 seasons ago D1 was pastoral compared to what it is now.)

~Conner had to play behind Brandon Rush, Brady, Xavier, and Josh Selby, three draft choices and one D-Leaguer with near 40% trey guns and good to great athleticism (three passing the eye test, one not), waiting and waiting for a shot to play in the rotation. AW3 is stuck behind Travis and/or Ben McLemore his first season. Travis is one of our great defenders, so to replace him as just a back-up you have to really be able to guard. Ben Mac is a probable draft choice. With Selden coming, AW3 is apt to face a similar uphill talent obstacle as Conner faced.

~AW3 seems to have a bit lankier body that could, when ever he gets through, make him into a more effective perimeter defender. Conner proved he could take XTReme abuse and keep playing his role, and dish it back, once he finally cracked the rotation to average 20mpg on a team that won 30+ games, played decisive roles in 2-3 victories down the stretch, and made it to the National Finals.

Summary: If AW3 gets lucky like Brady and Conner did, and is at KU during a season, when Self doesn't have a draft choice, or an OAD, ahead of him, then AW3 will either start, as Brady did one season, or start and be a 20 minute man as Brady became behind Xavier and Josh Selby, or as Conner did behind Travis, once AW3 gets a little more development behind him.

Could AW3 play quite a bit this season? Based on what we've seen so far, it is doubtful. But if Elijah Johnson's knee deteriorates, instead of getting better, or gets re-tweaked every 3, or 4, games, Self will almost have no choice but to play AW3 in order to get a second trey shooter in the game, when Elijah is out, either for blows, or for missing entire games.

jaybate 8 years, 10 months ago

Note: Self might also have forced Conner into service, as a freshman, had had he been on this team that is so plauged with injuries, recruiting shortfalls, lack of scoring and departures, just as AW3 might be.

Jim Roth 8 years, 10 months ago

Conner had short legs, compared to his torso - your hypothesis to explain Naadir's defensive struggles. I always thought that was why Conner's shot was blocked more than any teammate's (% of attempts blocked)....he couldn't get off the ground easily. I haven't seen enough of AW3 to notice, but my impression is that he doesn't suffer such a proportional handicap.

jaybate 8 years, 10 months ago

Conner didn't look disproportional to me. He just looked slow. But I'm willing to go with you on it,if you looked at it closely. Short legs on long bodies explain a lot of motion limitations. And Long necks explaina lot about why some guys can't lock down on guys their own size. I'm thinking about 6-6 Travis with a looooong neck vs. 6-7 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and, say, 6-7 Brandon Rush, where you get the height all the way to the shoulders, which increases how high someone can reach up, Regardless, its apparent that short leg syndrome is still causing Naadir fits right now, still. But Naadir is doing a lot better, at compensating than last year.

Here's the thing: just because someone has a physical disadvantage does not mean they cannot in time find a way around it. Travis has learned to play an old man's game in Self's terms to make up for how short he is up to the shoulders. Its a waste of his great athleticism and anticipation to run around trying to block shots on anyone his size with a short neck. It won't work. The time for Trav to go for blocks is when the guy is shorter, or has an long neck too. Otherwise, Trav brilliantly now turns contests with short necks his size and taller into horizontal matches.

jaybate 8 years, 10 months ago


This wing span is exactly why I hazzarded a guess that if AW3 can ever build up his legs for strength, as well as the bounce he supposedly already has, and so becomes able to move and control his length rapidly and gracefully, he could become a better defender than Conner. And were he to get to where he could move like, say, Tyrel, he could become a very sound defender against almost every player he meets, and if he were able to develop the kind of quickness and anticipation that Brady had, he would be a lock down artist better than Brady because of that wing span. And if he developed the awesome quickness that Tyshawn and Mario Chalmers and RR had, then with that wing span he would be better than them, too.

I figured since he was a four star, he already was already able to move well enough to play adequate defense now. I never dreamed his feet would get tangled up as they do right now.

Either he has been injured (shin splints and knee strains), or he's just got a lot of work ahead of him as Conner and Tyrel had as freshman. Actually, I think from the waist down the best comparison for AW3 is not Conner, Brady, or Brandon, but though they look very different, Tyrel. Tyrel had the same great gun, 40 inch springs, good straight line speed, inability to change directions on defense and tangled up feet as a freshman.

I would think AW3 can expect a development process and timing similar to Tyrel. Both guys are relentless workers once they fix on what it is they need to get better at. The exciting thing is that when AW3 makes each milestone that Tyrel made, he will be 6-6, not 6-3, or 6-4. And he will have that awesome wingspan too.

Using Tyrel for an analogue, next year by mid season he should be a 10-20 minute backup. His junior season, he should be a 20-25 minute backup and a guy getting ready for starting. And as a senior, he should go monster, because of the fully developed foundation and the superior gun and superior wing span. At that point, I would expect him to become a draft choice, where as Tyrel just wasnt' big enough to be less than lightening quick in the L.

jaybate 8 years, 10 months ago

Part 3

If Elijah can't cut it, and if Naadir can't come out of his slump, both of which are significant possibilities right now (though not probabilities), AW3 could be on the court and getting the baptism under fire that Brady got his season after a redshirting. Brady measured up, and flourished, largely because the redshirt year had developed him to the point that he could do all the basics of glue, plus guard the best perimeter guy, plus shoot 40% from trey that that team needed. AW3 seems to lack the defensive footwork to guard the best perimeter opponent. But AW3, if forced into major service, surely could be a fine wing on a 3-2 zone, both getting up in the face of shooters at the trey stripe and, perhaps as importantly, rebounding on the backside. AW3 has noted that one of the strengths he brings is rebounding. And on this team, that is a highly valued strength that Self might be willing to scheme towards if worse comes to worse with Elijah and his Naadir.

Self will stick with m2m so long as EJ can play. But if EJ, or another perimeter player were to go down for long, this could be the year Self goes zone in a big way.

And AW3 could be a major part of that.

Brianna Zaleski 8 years, 10 months ago

Big difference between Connor and AWIII: Andrew is a blue blood D1 caliber recruit. Connor was not. He played as much as he did out of pure necessity. KU had a couple of lean yrs recruiting, combined with some recruiting misses and Selby jumping after a year. These are the reasons Connor saw the floor as much as he did. AWIII is a talent that will see court time due to his strengths, not due to the teams weaknesses or holes.

jaybate 8 years, 10 months ago

Wow ZIG,

Right now, the team this year has as much, or more weaknesses and holes to fill than last year's team had and AW3 is not playing anything but clean up minutes. Tyshawn, Elijah and Travis were all pretty solid last year, you know? Tyshawn was out of commission ten days or so but then made his phenomenal recovery the rest of the season. And Elijah and Travis did not get hurt till midway in the season, apparently. And at least they could all cut it in their roles. This season Elijah is very shaky and Naadir, is well, Naadir. He can back up EJ some, but he really can't fill at the wing meaningfully. The team has serious need.

I would say without feeling like I was limb walking, that if Conner were here again this year, he would be playing 20 mpg again, wouldn't you? Or are you saying that Naadir is so good now that neither AW3, nor Conner could beat him out for those 3-5 minute stretches when the 2 and the 3 need to rest? If you are, I'm astonished.

Are you saying Self is sand bagging with AW3; that he's holding him back as a secret weapon? :-)

I really don't understand your take on this.

AW3 is a blue blood recruit who will see court time due to his strengths, not due to the team's weaknesses or holes, eh, except not this year when we desperately need him to. Is that about it? :-)

I am not saying AW3 won't eventually be a part of the rotation, even start like Brady and Tyrell did. I'm just saying it could take him awhile, just like it took Brady, Tyrell and Conner awhile. For players in the middle of the range of talent, it all depends on what the cat drags in in recruiting it seems. Alas, Self is dragging in Selden, Greene, Frankamp and maybe Wiggins on the perimeter; that could be tough bunch to break through.

Another thing I'm saying is AW3 might be hurt. He's packing a lot of quilts on those skinny legs. Maybe he could play as good as you hope right now, if he weren't hurt.

I thought from Self's early remarks of AW3 being a first guy off the bench that he would be all that you hoped for.

But so far, I just don't see any sign of it, do you?

I mean, what has AW3 done on the floor to distinguish himself as a freshman so far, that Conner did not do as a freshman, also?

I had hoped AW3 would be waaaaaaay better than Conner, because, unlike last year's solid starting perimeter, our starting perimeter is starting out kind of crippled.

We need help out there. If Self is sand bagging with AW3, I sure hope he turns him loose pretty soon.

Brianna Zaleski 8 years, 10 months ago

JB, My basic point is that AWIII is a much better prospect than Connor was when he was a frosh and that the only reason Connor saw the mins he did the last year, was out of put necessity. Would Connor play this year? Yeah probably because he'd have 6 yrs of exp in Selfs system vs rookies. That is an asinine comparison and you won't get that one past me. Look, were you foaming at the mouth when Connor was a frosh, hoping he'd figure out what it took to get on the floor his first yr? No, he was the walk on who came in during mop up mins and would sink a 3 or two. Were you confident, last year, that when Connor threw up a pressure 3, that it was going in? Hell no. You knew it was going to be a brick. I'm sorry, but to compare Connor to AWIII, is anything short of lazy.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 10 months ago

This year's future class [assuming BenMac leaves] will be Perry, AWIII, RIO, Semi, LL, Nadiir, Justin.

Next year's future class will be Conner, Brannen, Wayno, Jo Jo, Frank, Julius???

The initials "PT" takes on a new meaning......"Pretty Tough" in highly competitive.

AWIII better become the Secretary of Defense in order to showcase his Offense!!

PS. Thanks to IU, Kansas, with a win Friday, could go up 6 victories on NC, 2076 to 2070.

lawerencejayhawk 8 years, 10 months ago

If AW3 can shoot 40 to 50 percent from 3 and rebound. No double team on Withey BMac gets to the basket (highlight) Perry and Jamari can operate down low. Releford shoots without a hand in his face. EJ and Naadir can create 3 point mid range or get to the basket. Best coach plus spacing for great players equal great tournament run.

Go Jayhawks!

HawkKlaw 8 years, 10 months ago

Sounds like AW3 is patient and mature enough to realize that he's got a lot of developing to do before he gets meaningful minutes. He will get there. And when he does KU will have a sharp-shooting stud at the 2 spot. Good to see his head is in the right place.

Woody Cragg 8 years, 10 months ago

JB, I like the "Baptism" analogy. This is the one guy on this years' team that can open up the entire floor for everyone else. Let it happen Bill.

texashawk10 8 years, 10 months ago

Why are there people thinking White is going to transfer? The only chance of Andrew White transferring from KU would be if KU by some miracle landed Andrew Wiggins, and even then I doubt White leaves. Andrew White was the 51st ranked player in his class. At place like KU, it's a toss up as to whether or not someone in that neighborhood makes an impact as a freshman at KU. Darnell Jackson (54) and Markieff Morris (49) are the only two other players in the same neighborhood as White and one played a lot as a freshman and one did not. Bill Self will get Andrew White's defense up to par and when that happens, White will see his minutes go way up. Assuming BMac goes pro after this year, the 2/3 rotation for KU is likely Seldon, Greene, and White which means there are minutes available next year as a starter or the back up for that rotation spot. Andrew White will end up being a decent player for KU, think along the lines of Travis Releford, not a star but a good college player that can contribute. Basically someone who will play to his ranking like Releford has.

KansasComet 8 years, 10 months ago

Andrew White III was recruited by over 15 D-1 Colleges, Conner Teahan was a mid-major prospect at best. He had some nice moments at KU and they are greatly appreciated. Andrew White is a talented young man that was recruited to KU. The young man can play. He should not be compared to Conner Teahan. Alabama, Virginia Tech, Louisville, N.C. State, Maryland, Georgetown, and Wake Forest recruited Andrew White III and he was rated 4 stars. Again, further proof, this young man can play.

Andrew White III has a great shooting stroke, a ton of athletic ability and is a student of the game. Andrew White III may play a lot of minutes this year, or he may receive the Cole Aldrich treatment, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. He may come on toward the end of the year, when given the opportunity, like Cole did. I think he will prove to be the type of 3 point assassin this team needs. Just not exactly sure when this will happen?

jaybate 8 years, 10 months ago

Acccording to an LJW story that appeared shortly after the second exhibition game, or the first regular season game, AW3's father indicated that 24 programs "wanted" AW3.

John Randall 8 years, 10 months ago

The impression I got from the quotes in the article was that Andrew is a student of some of the better jump shooters in the pros. Similar study of some really good perimeter defenders may be what he needs.

Jayhawkgirl2 8 years, 10 months ago

AW3 6'6 210lbs with a 6' 11 wingspan might defend different from what we are used to, that might be why he lead us in steals in Europe and got a steal the other night in limited minutes, but I agree that he must concentrate as much on his defense as offense to play for Bill Self. But his length in passing lanes forces turnovers which isn't a bad thing.

Woody Cragg 8 years, 10 months ago

How long did he go to school in Charlottesville? Off topic, but my oldest brother raised his family, retired, then passed away there 4 years ago. Beautiful, historic country. Gene is buried a couple of miles from vineyards that were owned by the Thomas Jefferson family for generations. He was retired Navy, CIA, & Defense Dept guy. Sent 2 kids to UVA, 1 William & Mary, & 1 ODU. The kids were born & lived literally all over the world, but 3 are still in Va, & the other in SC.That speaks volumes for that area if you've never been there before. Is absolutely georgeous; not far from the sea or the mountains. Been there several times & fell in love with the place when we visited.

kureader 8 years, 10 months ago

Did some post graduate work there. It's a great town with beautiful countryside. Jefferson's home and that of John Adams, a couple miles away, is amazing. It's nice that you have good memories of your brother and the Charlottesville area.

mdm7eb 8 years, 10 months ago

I am typing this from a UVA library. Life long Kansan (4 genration and all that) but have been in Virginia / DC area for awhile now. UVA and Charlottesville is great. Love everything it has to offer. I am glad I can lay claim to KU basketball heritage (as UVA is not the best at sports). Plus my wife is an IU alum -- so will always have a decent team to cheer for. I believe White went to the Miller School which is a private school outside of town in the mountains. Not a bad place at all to grow up.

Woody Cragg 8 years, 10 months ago

One of his daughters is married to a SEAL out of Dam Neck & Va Beach. He is 50ish & could retire now, but you know how those guys are. Really neat well rounded people, highly educated, funny, but completely dedicated. When I asked "were you deployed when you got the news," his reply was "We're always deployed." My son & I spent about a week with them in 08' when Gene passed. I believe the Magnolias were still blooming there in Nov. Was about 20 deg here when I returned. Bro was a huge Jayhawks fan, just huge.Miss him alot-nice to chat with some homers from there & here both. Take care.

Sam Constance 8 years, 10 months ago

Andrew White III

4 star Rivals recruit

51st ranked player in Class of 2011

12th ranked SF in Class of 2011

Offers from: Kansas, Texas, Georgetown, Louisville, Tennessee, Maryland, N.C. State, Florida State, West Virginia, Wake Forest, Virginia Tech, Oklahoma State, Cincinnati, Alabama, George Mason, Richmond

Conner Teahan

2 star Rivals recruit (in FOOTBALL - no stars in basketball)

Not ranked in his class (so clearly outside the top 150)

Obviously not ranked at his position (SG)

Offers from: Wichita State

Can we please put to rest the idea that Teahan and White are similar in ANY WAY except for the fact that they both had a large disparity between their own ability to shoot (very good) and ability to defend (not very good).

Who knows why Self says what he does, but if you gave him some truth serum, I doubt he would say that he genuinely views the two players as similar, unless he was talking about 5th-year senior Teahan vs. freshman White, III.

KansasComet 8 years, 10 months ago

Thank you, that pretty much says it all! Truly enjoyed reading your post.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 10 months ago

Let's first dispel this myth that Conner Teahan was a good three point shooter. He wasn't. He was not good. The only reason folks viewed him as a shooter, was because he offered no other real skill. And he could apparently hit some in practice.

Teahan's career three point field goal % was 34.3%.That is reality. Five years in the program. He shot 12 for 20 his freshmans season in pure mop up time. After that, he shot 31.4%.

Most generally thought Taylor was a poor three point shooter .. he ended at 37%.

jb asked above: "what has AW3 done on the floor to distinguish himself as a freshman so far, that Conner did not do as a freshman, also?"

I would suggest that AW3 went to Europe and scored 10, 16, 3, and 15 points on the trip. His first times on the floor as a Jayhawk. In games that weren't pushovers. When he actually got consistent minutes, he proved it. Can't prove it without consistent minutes.

From the "eye test", AW3 is a better shooter than Teahan. Bank on that. I mean, take it to bank, wager on it, bet you house on it .. his stroke is a thing of beauty. The kid just needs consistent minutes to display his offensive talents. He'll earn it.

White has the talent, ability, size, and skill .. the tools .. to develop into an NBA player. Teahan?

I will say this with complete certainty .. any objective comparison to Teahan is pure insanity.

*Please note my complete gratitude for Teahan's three vs. Purdue, and his contributions to our title game run in 2011-12.

KansasComet 8 years, 10 months ago

I thought Conner Teahan was a great shooter, when we were playing at home and in the lead. He was the type of player that teams attack come tournament time, and this is what helps you get sent home early. KU has scouting reports on their opponents, and I am very sure that each opponent has a scouting report on KU. I know exactly who I would have attacked on last years team. The kid that appears a step slow and only shoots when wide open, and rarely creates shots for himself or his teammates.

The biggest questions are who recruited Conner, and how on earth did he ever crack the rotation at a school like Kansas. That should never happen, and that type of action, will cause you to miss out on recruits and have kids transfer.

Not saying I don't like Conner, he was on our team and I will support all KU players, but to compare him to a young stud like Andrew White III makes no sense. Andrew White III just needs a chance to show what he can do. If he was given the opportunity to play through his mistakes like Tyshawn Taylor was, then this kid would be a star, by the middle of his sophomore season.

texashawk10 8 years, 10 months ago

Two points, the first one is that Teahan was originally an invited walk-on to KU because he wanted to be a Jayhawk, backed up by the fact he had full ride options at some Missouri Valley schools, yet he still chose to be a walk-on at KU. He did not go on scholarship until after KU didn't have anymore recruiting options and Self chose to reward Teahan for all the hard work he put in.

Point 2 is I think you have it backwards on Teahan being in the rotation causing recruiting misses and transfers. Teahan was in the rotation because Self had multiple recruiting misses and transfers along with unexpected early departures to the NBA the crippled the depth of last years team. Teahan played out of necessity last year and he was a big factor in a couple of wins last year.

KansasComet 8 years, 10 months ago

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. The fact that he wanted be a Jayhawk is great. I am happy that he was able to come to Kansas and have a dream come true. 4 and 5 star recruits will never be happy sitting behind lesser talent.

RJ King 8 years, 10 months ago

The only 4 star recruit sitting behind Teahan last year was Tharpe.

jaybate 8 years, 10 months ago


All sound points as usual. In explanation, I was trying to compare them as freshman. Teahan didn't play in an overseas situation as a freshman, so we can't say what he might have done. We can say that AW3 did what you said in Europe and then came back and could only play clean up minutes just as Conner did, but, so far shooting 40% instead of 50% from trey in those clean up minutes. Conner also did not play on a team with such a thin, injured perimeter as the team AW3 is playing on.

But if you wish to open it up to NBA futures and Europe, then there is no way to get around it. Conner finally got a chance on a National Finals team and averaged 20 mpg as rotation player. That's a done deal. Not a coulda-woulda.

My problem with AW3 is that he came in with 4 stars and a lot of talk about his athleticism.

Until I actually saw him play, it never occurred to me that he was comparable to Conner Teahan. It would have seemed fantastic to me to make such a comparison. And I assumed his height, athleticism and shot would make him a possible NBA player one day.

But when the season started, he has performed no better than Conner and shot it not as well.

Self says AW3 is kind of like Connner.

Yet you say any objective comparison with Conner is insanity.

Ok, so you seem to be saying Self cannot be sanely objective about AW3 and Conner because he compares them. I'm okay with doubting a coach, though suggesting Self is insane because he compares AW3 and Conner seems a bit extreme. :-)

But here's the thing for me. Based on what AW3 has done so far his freshman season, he is objectively quite comparable.

They are only an inch apart. They only play clean up minutes, even though AW3 is on a much easier team to crack into the perimeter rotation on than Conner was. Conner is more accurate from trey over a longer period and more shots his freshman season, making 50% to AW3's 40%.

So, far, it looks questionable if AW3 is ever going to be a starter at KU, though he seems likely to be a rotation guy sooner or later. I really can't think of a non starter rotation guy from KU that has had the NBA career you forecast for AW3.

Now if AW3 has been injured, then I don't think its a very good comparison. But no one but me seems to think he has been injured. God, how I hope he has been injured, so we can get some perimeter depth incase EJ's knee goes all the way south, or anyone else goes down.

But AW3 gets his feet tangled up just like Conner used to.

I confess I was expecting a lot out of AW3 and that he would be an adequate defender out of the box.

But I no longer am.

Sam Constance 8 years, 10 months ago

I just don't understand how you can give credit to Teahan for cracking a "more difficult" rotation than AW3. Honestly, it seems exactly backwards to me.

Teahan played on a team for which he was the ONLY backcourt player who received regular minutes who didn't start. The next perimeter player who got minutes after him was a completely incapable Naadir Tharpe. Self had no choice but to play him unless he wanted to make EJ, TT and TR play 40 minutes a game. And in the tournament, when things got serious, he came pretty close to doing that anyway. He didn't "crack" the rotation. he was forced into it. If McLemore hadn't been ruled ineligible, he would have probably played even less.

Let's also not forget that Self has shown that he will play the player with more physical shortcomings if he gains some stability and experience in doing so. He did the same thing with Christian Moody. Teahan had the benefit of being Self's only option for spelling the perimeter players AND he was a senior who Self trusted because he knew he limits and capabilities. White, on the other hand, is a freshman on a team where Self doesn't NEED to use him and will therefore prioritize using minutes to teach over just playing him because he doesn't have any better options.

The beauty of taking the Europe trip into account is that over there, Self doesn't really follow the blueprint for bringing the youngsters along like he does here in games that matter. He basically rolls the ball out and subs everyone in and out to let them play. So in the only games this year where Self wasn't using minutes as a motivator, White performed very well, and did so against professional competition. That HAS to factor in, even if Teahan didn't get the same opportunity. Plus, I think, based on seeing what Teahan was after 5 years, it's pretty safe to say that he wouldn't have probably performed as well as White did, given the same opportunity.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 10 months ago

jb: I will remain on record that Self's comparison of AW3 to Teahan is insanity.

As marchphog88 point out, McLemore's situation resulted in Teahan's playing time. Really, missing on Trevor Lacey and McLemore's PT caused that .. either one, Teahan doesn't play much.

Teahan was absolutely as good as he would get as a 23 year old senior. White has many years ahead of him.

It seems impossible to negatively judge this kid when he has had no meaningful time this season, and when his only meaningful time (in Europe) had such positive results.

As mentioned, time will tell here .. I just know where I'd put my money.

jaybate 8 years, 10 months ago

...this year. I'm still hopeful he rounds into a rotation player before Conner did, but...time will tell.

HawkKlaw 8 years, 10 months ago

Wow, guys. All Bill Self said was that AW3 reminds him of Connor because "what he does best now is shoot it." Self used to talk about how great of a shooter he thought Connor was, so it makes sense for him to compare them based on how well they shoot the ball. And it took Connor a long time to feel comfortable on the court at KU. Again, Self compared that aspect of Teahen to AW3. I don't think Self was implying that AW3 will never be more skilled or has no higher ceiling than Teahen.

Clearly, expectations are much higher for AW3 than they were for Teahen. Even Bill Self would agree with that. But when it comes to shooting the ball and taking time to get comfortable in Self's system, the two are comparable. Not exact replicas. Not the same ceiling. Just similar in those two aspects.

Reading comprehension, anyone?

GabrielMichael 8 years, 10 months ago

Stay after it Andrew! You make us proud with your approach to the game... we can't wait to see you when you earn more PT!

Woody Cragg 8 years, 10 months ago

Mark my words: AWIII will hit some big time shots for the Jbirds if he can just get on the floor. IMO Self knows this & is wanting it to happen much sooner than later. I'd like to see him spell Travis & BMac both more often, & not necessarily when Tharpe is on the floor. If anyone at all gets attention on D, then White can flat out light it up.Nadir is so small defenses can put a lesser defender on him. Especially when on the floor the same time as EJ.

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