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Thursday, November 22, 2012

Tait

Opinion: Leaving Big 12 doesn’t make sense for KU now

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So here we are, the conference realignment waters stirring again and fans of Kansas University athletics wondering if any or perhaps every rumor they read should be taken seriously or ignored altogether.

The answer is yes.

With Maryland and Rutgers leaving the ACC and Big East to join the Big Ten earlier this week, administrators, coaches and, yes, even fan bases at schools across the country have tuned their realignment meters to the high-alert setting. With good reason. As we’ve seen before, movement from one conference to another does not always come with a lot of build-up before the bomb drops.

Although this week’s action has taken place on the East Coast and has yet to impact the Big 12 Conference or KU, plenty of advice has been handed out regarding what the Big 12 will — or is it should? — do and what options the Big 12’s members might have if and when the next round of nonsense hits.

One report even went as far as to peg KU as one of the latest Big Ten targets should the now-14-team league look to become the first 16-team superconference.

At this point, it’s much more likely that the Big 12 would expand before one of its members would leave. And even expansion seems like a long shot.

If this kind of KU-to-the-Big-Ten option presented itself five years ago, heck, even two years ago, the decision would have been easy. KU officials would have had to jump on it. It makes geographic sense. It makes financial sense. And, with teams like Indiana, Illinois, Maryland, Minnesota and Rutgers calling the conference home, it makes football sense, too.

But a lot has changed in the past couple of years. Enough, in fact, to make entertaining an offer next to impossible.

Kansas Athletics is now run by a man whose word means something and KU football, though still in rebuilding mode, appears in better shape than when Turner Gill was the face of the program. Oh yeah, and the basketball program added a Final Four, a title-game appearance and another NBA lottery pick to its list of accomplishments. But we all know where basketball ranks in all of this.

What’s more, after walking away from its own funeral, the Big 12 has repositioned itself as one of the nation’s power conferences. In addition to upgrading its television deals, unity and leadership, the league also has the unanimously approved granting-of-rights agreement that ties the schools together much more tightly than even a $50 million dollar exit penalty ever could. It’s moments such as these that were the reason behind the Big 12’s decision to go the rights route instead of focusing on dollars, which can, and seemingly always will, be negotiated down to a fraction of the original amount when parts get to moving.

With the Big Ten off the table, the focus shifts, at least around here, to what the Big 12 needs to do and can do to stay strong should the Maryland and Rutgers moves be the blocks that send the Jenga tower toppling over.

It’s true that the ACC is now more vulnerable than ever and it seems clear that future of that league is the key to everything. If the ACC survives, the madness could subside. If not, let the recruiting begin.

While picking up could-be ACC castoffs Florida State and, to a lesser degree, Clemson or Virginia Tech, would make some sense, the best move for the Big 12 today is the one that proved to be best during the two previous rounds of realignment — let patience, loyalty and logic carry you. With new television deals, fewer slices being taken out of a suddenly much-sweeter pie and 10 members that genuinely enjoy doing business together, it seems the Big 12 already got it right once.

Leaning on such core values may sound cheesy and like anything but the right course, but, aside from the destruction of a couple of long-standing rivalries, can you really say that those things failed the conference the first two times?

Comments

JHWKDW 1 year, 4 months ago

The Tier thing is a problem. Like I said the SEC, Big 10 and Pac-12 has equal revenue sharing no tier B.S. share and share alike.

Big 10 or the Pac 12. I would kind of prefer the Pac-12, because I think they would also want Kansas State, they value in-state rivalries Washington-Washington State, Oregon-O State,Arizona-A State ETC. There aint no backstabbing and seperation B.S. Like out East I.E. Florida-Florida State, Clemson-S. Carolina.

Though I will say they have a great in State Rivalry Michigan Michigan State.

The Big 12 has lost touch with reality, and has licked the Texas Longhorn bootstraps for too long. Like Ive said before and will keep on saying Florida State and Clemson and Louisville aint coming here and putting up with the Drama and B.S. of Texas.

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jhawkrulz 1 year, 4 months ago

One thing for sure...if the big ten calls...KU is gone.

Didnt the big 10 pay for the exitfee of maryland.

The grant of rights is for tier 1,2 and its. always impressive what llawyers could do to negotiate the exit fees down. For instance, Ive heard that md might start at 20 instead of 50 because the change was made in the middle of the year. Negotiate a little more and they could be out for 13-17.

Remember that the big12 let tam and mu leave for about 40% of what they could have received. KU would leave for 2 years from now. And would only lose 3 years and that is if they didnt negotiate further.

All i am saying is conference realignment willl continue and the exit fees aare typically considered irrelevant.

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doolindalton 1 year, 4 months ago

Nobody despises the "Big 12" more than me. The conference is terrible for KU from a fan's perspective, but a move a'int going to happen, unfortunately. Too much money involved.

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JHWKDW 1 year, 4 months ago

Also people, when it comes to the Big 12-2, we never have left the Big 12-2, the Big 12-2 has left us, well correction The Big 12-2 have left us and the original 6 Big 12 teams heck add TCU and WV also to appease the Texas Longhorns. This conference is a shell of its former self. We are not as bad as the Big Least but we are getting there. Before we know it after and when we get raided, KU and the remaining Big 12 will look like the Darrin McGavin character in the Movie A Christmas Story, you know the scene with the leg lamp, where he tries to glue and put the leg lamp back together only for it to fall apart, and then he supposedly buried it in the backyard. That is what the Big 12-2 is slowly looking like.

Texas A&M, Missouri, Colorado, and Nebraska got tired of the poor business model of unequal partners here. The Conference is still basically run by and controlled by the University of Texas. Guess what, they voted with their feet to this unequal partnership, and how will it be appealing to others especially FSU or Clemson? Get real folks they will not come here and tolerate that B.S. and soap opera stuff that happens here. You think they want to trade in their situation they have in the ACC to put up with the boloney here?

Did anyone remember the shenanigans Texas tried to do with Texas Tech right after A&M and Missouri left? Yeah and you think all these ACC teams will want to leave, and put up with this really? Read the column below would you trade the ACC for this? REALLY?

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19399355/texas-tech-may-cancel-game-against-texas-state

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JHWKDW 1 year, 4 months ago

We would be wise to improve our football team, and stop being a 1 trick pony with men's college basketball. I know the history with Naismith and Phog Allen, that will never be forgotten, but folks it is a different time we got to stop just being the "Basketball School" in order to survive.

Look at other teams in other conferences, Wisconsin-good football, decent basketball, good Hockey program good sports year round. Michigan-Good Football, improving Basketball, decent Hockey team good sports year round. South Carolina-Good Football program,good baseball program, why do you think they took coach Martin from K-State? SC wants to improve and make their Basketball like K-State was. North Carolina yeah North Carolina much to the anger of Ol Roy have diversified they are not just the Basketball School they once were. They brought in a new good coach to improve their football, and their baseball team has been to the College World Series last several years.Texas A&M good Football ok basketball, good track team and decent Baseball team Same thing with UCLA and Arizona out West getting better in all of sports.Well mind you, I know we do not have a Hockey team like Wisconsin, or Michigan but the point is they are diversified.

You do not have to be National Champions in all these sports, just have other decent athletic programs.Roy is gone, we do not have to appease him. Point is stop putting all your eggs in one Basket.(No pun intended) Mens College Basketball

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Randy Maxwell 1 year, 4 months ago

It's laughable for people to think a conference would want to bring in KU because it needs a basketball upgrade. It just is ridiculous. No conference gives a crap about basketball. Until KU can offer something football wise nobody is going to want them

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Andrew Moore 1 year, 4 months ago

The Big 12 should add 4 schools and beat the others to the name Big 14. Assuming that the ACC is crumbling, these are schools you target....

  1. Louisville - Good athletics, decent school and a bridge to West Virginia

  2. Florida State - No brainer. Go get this program!

  3. Georgia Tech - Give the east coast schools some company with this solid athletic program and excellent academic institution.

  4. Virginia Tech - Why not? If they need a home.... We need a 14th team... It's either them or Clemson

All of a sudden we have an Eastern division. I would think you'd give TCU and Iowa State to the east.

East: WVU, Louisville, FSU, TCU, ISU, GT, VaTech West: UT, KU, KSU, OU, OSU, TTU, BU

If for whatever reason we were talking about 16 teams... How about Notre Dame and BYU?

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pepper_bar 1 year, 4 months ago

The grant-of-rights contract must contain a clause providing for complete dissolution of the Big 12 if a certain number of athletic programs decide to leave, and providing for liquidated damages to the programs left behind.

How many athletic programs leaving would trigger that clause? Six? Eight? Ten?

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FLJHK 1 year, 4 months ago

Miscellaneous observations:

  1. On the petty level of college athletics, and particularly Div 1 football, it seems as if the nation is best served by a minimum of five major conferences. It is clear which five those are. However, things seem to be in motion for the eventual emergence of four, 16-team superconferences. Three of those are clear; the Big 12 and ACC will compete to be the 4th.

  2. In the ACC-Big 12 battle, tradition, academic pedigree and population favor the ACC. The Big 12 wins on football, and by largely delivering the state of Texas. As goes Texas, so goes the Big 12. That's not a reality that should provide much in the way of comfort to the rest of the conference.

  3. There are multiple viable ways for the B1G and SEC to poach their way to 16 teams. Routes for the PAC are far less obvious or desirable, but that conference is truly the wild card in all of this. The PAC's only viable route of expansion is with Big 12 teams, geographically and culturally awkward as that may be. But the PAC is the potential linchpin for the demise of the Big 12.

  4. I don't know how or to what degree politics plays in this game but it is silly not to consider it at minimum a major factor. It's pretty interesting to look at the major conferences from a red state - blue state perspective. The SEC and Big 12 are basically red; the PAC and Big 10 mostly blue, and the ACC mainly blue but mixed. But broader considerations such as energy, resource extraction, trade corridors and like matters may also be in play. How this plays out in university conference affiliations I can't figure, but I tend to believe Jaybate has identified the possible significance of these matters, and they likely play a far larger role than most of us have considered.

  5. None of these musings lead to any obvious conclusion for a simple mind like mine. But I will say that if these various factors, along with GOR and exit fee considerations, somehow lead to a B1G invite to KU, I would immediately jump.

  6. In the meantime, the Big 12 must recognize its battle for survival with the ACC.Sitting at 10 members is a surrender tactic. Whether or not the four superconference scenario ever plays out, a minimum 12-team conference is essential. If Florida State is at all an option, it should be exercised. I'd prefer several over Clemson as the 12th, including Ga. Tech, Louisville or Va, Tech, but getting to 12 needs to occur.

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Jayhawk470 1 year, 4 months ago

The Big 12-minus-4-plus-2 needs to get back to 12 teams. Add Louisville as the 11th team and either Northern Illinois (to get into the Chicago market) or Louisiana Tech (to establish competition in SEC territory) as the 12th team.

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BPSkelly 1 year, 4 months ago

I'll stick the idea of grabbing Louisville... and then waiting for other pieces to fall. I agree that the concept of both Rutgers, Maryland leaving for the Big 10 arent 'death knells' for either the Big East or the ACC. But if we took Louisville and the ACC took UConn the beginning of the end (or about the 8th beginning of the end) for the Big East would be starting.

And while I do agree with the idea that places like FSU or Clemson wouldnt necessarily leave the ACC there is no question that it would exacerbate the already brewing problems there. Both those schools will make at least 8-10 million LESS per year over the next several decades than both Florida and South Carolina -- their main instate competitors. And that doesnt even include the idea that the SEC is going to roll out a regional sports network they are going to push nationwide -- not unlike the Big 10 network. That dollar differential isnt going to shrink, its going to grow. Im quite sure both schools would would go to the SEC if the offer was there. They maybe. But im quite sure UF and USC are going to red flag those ideas before their out of the box.

I also dont think FSU / Clemson / whomever (other than possibly Louisville) moves unless there are a whole group of them moving. I just cant see that happening. It's why I dont think we'd see a Big 12 just adding Louisville / FSU. Or even just FSU / Clemson. Now, if other ACC 'football schools' made the move you might be on to something.

Who knows. We'll probably have a lot of fits and starts with all this. Im fine going to 16, but I think all these guys dont want to be the ones to do it yet. It's also worth noting that if the ACC gets picked apart by the Big 12, Big 10 (UVA/UNC)?, SEC (NCSt/VaTech) that im quite sure Notre Dame's "alliance" with them wont go anywhere. Just saying.

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SCOE 1 year, 4 months ago

Big 12 be proactive for once!! Be the first to 16. Think about it, add FSU, Clemson, Geo Tech, Louisville, now stay with me NC and Duke. For football you add TV markets in Florida, and Georgia. Now that gives you more TV markets for football = more TV money. Now how much money would your basketball TV contract be worth with KU, Louisville, NC, and Duke in one conference. Sure your splitting the money 16 ways vs 10 but now your TV contracts are worth more and you are already at 16 teams so you have yourself covered when the BCS finally decides that it should have just four sixteen team conferences for its championship series. The only thing that would be better is if you could somehow get ND in your conference. Just a random thought.

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Robert Brown 1 year, 4 months ago

Bottom line is that the Big 12 is the number four conference and while it is clearly behind the SEC, Big 10 and PAC 12, it is in a solid position and can afford to wait and see what happens to the schools on the east coast. The is no magical number of teams that a conference needs. The Big 10 expanded to increase the size of its network and generate more money. The Big 12 does not have a similar network so the criteria for expansion is different. Any new member will have to add enough to the pie so that everyone gets a bigger piece. Give that the Big 12 schools get as much per school for its media rights as any school in the top three conference, they will be selective in adding teams.

By the way, everyone talks about how much revenue the Big 10 network generates and it does but perhaps not as much as a lot of people think. Last year it distributed about $100m to the 12 schools. That's about $8m per school for third tier rights. I think KU get about the same amount for its third tier rights a move to the Big 10 may mot be as lucrative for the athletic department as some believe.

The model that lets UT keep the Longhorn Network is actually good for KU.

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sabosm 1 year, 4 months ago

Of course we don't belong in any other conference, but the only conference that is worth us joining would be the ACC where Duke and Carolina are, or even joining the same conference as Missouri

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JHWKDW 1 year, 4 months ago

Folks the sky is not falling, and the ACC is not going to die. The Conference that must die now, without a doubt because they are losers are the Big East. Once those losers are out of the picture, we can have a bit of sanity LOL. And to all the morons at the top in Lawrence, that also includes LJWs Tom Keegan who thought the Big LEast would be a great fit for KU when our conference looked like it would die. What a crock of B.S. that looks like now. Ill be popping champagne and burning effigies of the Big East logo when they are gone.

Nah what I think will happen is U of Texas will get a ACC bid, with U Conn going there, trust me it will happen, ESPN has always had a huge interest in the Big LEast since ESPN is in Connecticut and they were a part of the BL, but soon the U Conn will be in the ACC they will shift their ,money and interest to the ACC. Also do not forget that lousy deal ESPN had with Texas and the LHN. I Think the LHN name will die and become the ACC Network as soon as Texas joins the ACC.

Folks Kansas and even K-State better have a plan when Texas heads to the ACC.

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jgkojak 1 year, 4 months ago

Why would the B10 add Duke? The trick is to be in as many DIFFERENT media markets as possible - UNC and Duke are the same media market - and Duke itself is nothing special outside basketball - it will end up in whatever the Big East/remainder ACC teams play in.

SEC will add NC State and Va Tech

Also - Virginia will never go to the B12 - it is a hugely prestigious academic institution - they'd go the B10 - but wouldn't be caught dead w/the likes of WVU or K-State.

Boise State is a non-starter as well- extremely poor academics

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Josh Galler 1 year, 4 months ago

Here is what I think

Big 10 add UNC and Duke to be 16 SEC add Virgina Tech and NC State to be 16 Big 12 add FSU, Clemson, GA Tech, Pitt, Louisville, Virginia Pac 12 to add BYU, Boise State, SDSU, and Colorado State

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jgkojak 1 year, 4 months ago

What does the above 16 team B12 look like?

B12 EAST West Va Florida St@ Clemson@ @Teams #11 and #12 Georgia Tech+ Pitt+ +Teams #13 and #14 Louisville Notre Dame *Teams #15 and #16 - come in as a pair TCU (for a trip to Texas for the East schools)

B12 WEST ISU KU KSU OU OSU TEX TTU Baylor

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jgkojak 1 year, 4 months ago

Destroying the ACC should be the first priority for everyone not the ACC.

That said- 1) If, for some reason, the B10 needs KU as team #16, we go, no questions asked.

2) It's more likely the B10 will grab UNC and VA - two very prestigious academic schools. At that point they control everything from Nebraska to the Atlantic Ocean, including two of the three biggest media markets - Chicago and NYC. (No, its not about Rutgers, its about B10 alumni in NYC, DC, etc. who can now watch their schools every week, and about recruiting NYC to DC).

3) At that point, the B12 has to offer FSU and Clemson, and possibly Ga Tech, Pittsburg (WVU rival), a safe landing spot. If they play it right, it sets up a B12 East with 7 teams in the eastern time zone and TCU, and a B12 West right w/the remaining teams. THAT would be solid for KU.

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Steve Gantz 1 year, 4 months ago

Big 12 is the best provided it stays intact. Big10 is the next best, as a Big10 fan myself, I'd be thrilled to see KU in the conference, particularly if NC comes along for the ride. PAC12 is awful if only because I don't want to ever, not even once, have to stay up til midnight on a worknight to watch KU play a Beaver, a Duck, a Bear or a Trojan. SEC because it's so weak basketball wise and so stinking strong football wise, just the opposite of what we are is a terrible, terrible fit, except that I live in SEC country and would get to see them in person on occasion.

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midwest_muser 1 year, 4 months ago

Anyone who doubts that an invitation from the Big10 would be accepted in 90 seconds has been huffing Weed B Gon.....

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okiedave 1 year, 4 months ago

The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. It seems that it is the athletically challenged schools wanting to jump somewhere else --- perhaps thinking things will improve.

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jaybate 1 year, 4 months ago

"Some Under-Reported Quotes Directly or Indirectly Relevant to Realignment"

"War and economics are politics by other means."

--von Clausbate, "On War, Economics, Politics and Finance"

"Politics is central banking by other means."

--von Clausbate, "On War, Economics, Politics and Finance"

"No producer oligopolist can survive without massive government subsidy supplied by the taxes of those being gouged by price fixing."

--Adam Bate, "The Wealth of Producer Oligopolies in Nations Subordinated to Private Central Banking"

"20 percent of the people support 80 percent of the people, because the top .5% of the people have outsourced the jobs of the 80 percent to peonage and slave labor markets."

--Vilfredo Paretobate, "Paretobate Suboptimizing and the Upward Redistribution of Wealth"

"The Prince must use any and all means, including private, not-for-profit athletic departments and their universities, to build the regional state alliances necessary to impose infrastructure succession that enables the unification of the North American electric power grid."

--Machiavellibate, The Prince of Energy

"Realignment economics is a subject profoundly conducive to cliche, resonant with boredom. On few topics is a board rat audience so practiced in turning off its ears and minds. And none can say that the response is ill advised."

--John Kenneth Galbate

(Note: All fiction. No malice)

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JayhawkerX3 1 year, 4 months ago

  1. There has been a lot of "talk" about the GofRs. However, I have yet to see a story that says everything has been SIGNED, not just "agreed" to. Last article I read about two months ago said everyone had "agreed" to them but the "lawyers" for each team were looking over the various documents and offering "suggestions." Can anyone CONFIRM whether any SIGNED document(s) exist(s)? 2, I understand that at least in the DRAFT of the document, any legal proceedings regarding the document must be brought in STATE court in Dallas TEXAS! If true, it makes me wonder how "impartial" such a court might be, especially if TEXAS is contesting something.
  2. Texas and to a much lesser extent Oklahoma "call the shots" in the BigXII. But, that will occur in ANY conference...the "big guys", be it in population, dollars, size, whatever will always do so. BUT, with Texas having probably as much of those things as EVERYONE ELSE PUT TOGETHER makes their importance to the BigXII overwhelming. No other conference has such a single DOMINANT institution. The BigXII only exists while it's in Texas' interest to have it exist. When that is no longer the case, it will be gone. As with any school, INCLUDING KU, each school should/will/must do what is in ITS best interest, the other schools be damned. Is being in the BigXII in KU's best interest? Maybe. But what if it is (or no longer becomes) in Texas' interest that we be here. Is there a plan?. 4 I think we may looking at a tree, and not the forest. IF the B1G would come calling (which, unfortunately, I doubt), not only would at least potentially the ultimate pay-off in SPORTS revenue AND potentially prestige occur, BUT, a B1G member a school is always invited to the CIC (the B1G research alliance) which shares (albeit, not equally) literally BILLIONS of research dollars annually If you don't know about the CIC here is a quick summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committe.... For KU to become a part of THAT group would mean far more to the University than the "sports" side could ever hope.

Frankly, that the BigXII "needs" a GofRs tells you much about the conference. You can tell how "stable" a conference is if you look at what it "costs" to leave.....in the B1G, Pac12 and SEC that is NOTHING (no GofRs, no "exit fee"). IF there is an impediment to leaving, it means the conference is unstable. In a stable conference no one WANTS to leave. With the ACCs exit fee and our GofRs,.....well.......

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Dirk Medema 1 year, 4 months ago

Matt - The SEC & Big 12 created a bit of rivalry by creating the Champions Bowl. What do you think the chances are of going after a few of the in-state rivals of SEC teams and building the team level rivalries as well? FSU-UF, Clemson-USC, GT-UGA, L-ville - UK? That would be one of the fews ways that I could see UT-A&M and KU-MU being a possibility again.

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BPSkelly 1 year, 4 months ago

Pure speculative opinion here (isnt all of this), but I think we should add Louisville as soon as possible. We know they have interest. We know there is interest within the confines of the conference higher ups (maybe not a majority, but we know its there). It's clear that TV and politics were in play hugely here with the WVU over Louisville thing -- justified by the concept as well.

But this go around seems different. And I DO agree we're either growing or shrinking... or waiting to be shrunken. The reality is if OU and UT want to be in the Big 12, it will exist. If they dont and decide to bolt, it wont. To me there's no gray area there.

I dont however buy the idea that UT is ready to walk. They did their flirting both in public (Pac 10 / ACC) and in private (Big 10). Short of UT getting religion on sharing or trying to devlop a T3 package for the whole conference (or something similar to what the Pac-12 is trying -- regional networks tied into the conference) there will not be a Bevo herd traveling elsewhere. That doesnt mean it couldnt happen obviously. But remember... they were GONE to the Pac... until it was obvious they were NOT budging on the longhorn network. And its already been shown that OU alone isnt want the Pac 12 wants (although that could change to).

It's also why im more confident now than I was before about KU's place at one of the big boy tables. There would have to be a 180 on a lot of powerful peoples minds for it to not be.

I think by adding Louisville and going to 11 you create one less option for the ACC. You also thrill FSU and Clemson by assuring that the ACC's next team likely will be a school with a weak ass football program. Ask FSU fans about their SOS because of their conference this year. Hows that working out for them? One loss and they have NO SHOT at the title because of it. It doesnt mean those schools would bolt. But my guess is they'll think about it long and hard if they havent already.

By going to 11 as well, we still avoid the Championship Game in football. I DONT agree with that idea mind you, but it would accomplish two things... growing and keeping OU and UT somewhat satisfied. Lets not pretend that doesnt matter either.

I also think there is something to be said that none of these Conference commissioners wants to be the one who is tagged as the guy who really blows this stuff up -- although im quite sure we'd all vote for Dan Beebe. Id love ALL the ACC 'football schools' to join up. But im also quite sure that the SEC will get the 2 they want ahead of us. Thats sounding like NCState and VaTech (new TV markets). If we ended up with FSU/Clemson/Miami/GaTech/Louisville/Cincinnati wouldnt that be more than adequate and secure?

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Robert Brown 1 year, 4 months ago

Every so often I find Boulevard here in Houston. It's a nice 80 deg day down here.

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pepper_bar 1 year, 4 months ago

My seventh cousin totally works for ESPN, and he says the Big 12 is going to add Florida State, Hawaii, Oxford, the Sorbonne, Baker, and Hogwarts.

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Andy Tweedy 1 year, 4 months ago

This round, and even the last round, isn't really about football any more. Clearly it's about money, but Rutgers? Maryland? Pitt? Syracuse? Hell, we have more tradition in the last 20 years than these guys. So I would bet KU IS more attractive to a raid than we were before. But I'd be ecstatic to stay where we are, as long as we can get back to 12. That allows another winnable football game on the schedule and a conference championship game, and that money would put a big dent in the "other slice of the pie." I'm also intrigued by the idea of a merger with another conference. The PAC 12, Big 12 conferences together? AWESOME!!! Sign me up...

Just don't stay at 10!!! 10 SUCKS!!!

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dynamitehawk 1 year, 4 months ago

I just realigned 6 boulevard pale ales in my fridge to make room for 6 more. Happy Thanksgiving Jayhawk Nation. Here's to adding Louisville, Clemson, and FSU.

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Robert Brown 1 year, 4 months ago

Long term I could see stronger alliances with other conferences most likely either the SEC or Pac12. We already have a bowl agreement with the SEC. I could see a scheduling alliance where there is something like an SEC -Big 12 challenge in football where every Big12 school plays an SEC school in non conference. That would certainly generate revenue. The same thing could be done with the PAC 12.

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William Blake 1 year, 4 months ago

I'm only partially on board with Matt's opinion. I agree we should have patience and hold true to our values... but that doesn't mean we don't create goals as a conference, and when the time is right we move on those goals (adding two teams). The opportunity to capture the schools you really want, happens but maybe once in a lifetime, so you stay true to your values and have patience while you strive for your goals.

I haven't been thrilled with the addition of TCU and WVU. I still don't see what big advantages those schools add to our conference. FSU is a better grab than both of those schools together. Even CS doesn't seem too impressed with the outcome of bringing in TCU and WVU. Now he has back in third, behind the B10 and SEC. I bet that wasn't the position he had us in before we lost MU and TAM... definitely not where he had us when we were truly the "Big 12."

So we wait until other schools/conferences decide for us again.

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Rocky Curtis 1 year, 4 months ago

I'm not as "up-to-speed" on the ins and outs of our league, and . . . therefore have no idea what this comment is in relation to. Can someone, more knowledgeable, please explain to me what a "granting-of-rights agreement" is? Thank you.

"the league also has the unanimously approved granting-of-rights agreement that ties the schools together much more tightly than even a $50 million dollar exit penalty ever could."

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average 1 year, 4 months ago

I don't begrudge any of the Big XII departees for a second. If KU had gotten the call that CU/NU/MU/aTm got, we would have jumped. Immediately. The exact same is true in Ames and Manhattan (even longer-shots than us).

If the Pac schools do get Texas and OU somehow (doesn't make the most sense, but what does) and everything goes to 16, I guess the default fallback is a "Big 8" and "core ACC" agreement with two nice geographical subdivisions. Football would only play one cross-division game a year. Non-revenue sports would usually never go cross-division except for a season-end championship. Basketball with UNC and Duke and Wake in a league? Sweet. We'd be half-a-tier behind the B1G, SEC, and PAC, but a half-tier above the next step down (MWC, Big East remnants, etc).

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Robert Brown 1 year, 4 months ago

Not sure why one school and not even a strong school leaving the ACC all of the sudden makes them vulnerable. They have a couple of schools waiting full the vacancy. I know the speculation is that the Big 10 may not be done. Since this is clearly a ploy to get access to more TV sets, schools like UNC, Virginia and Ga Tech are clearly more attractive than KU.

I don't know how firm the grant of rights is, but it sounds tougher than an exit fee. It still amazes me that some people actually think KU has leverage. They clearly do not and the more iron clad the grant of rights is the better for KU because it locks in OU and UT.

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getserious 1 year, 4 months ago

Once again, I say Texas and OU see our conference as an easy path to the final 4 in the new football BCS. If we don't take some schools near West Va, the newness will wear off with them and they will bolt for the ACC or Big 12 if they get an invite. Adding Louisville and Cincy gives the Big 12 a huge footprint in the Easten Midwest and doesn't scare off Texas or OU. Also elevates our conference hugely in Basketball.

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Kevin Randell 1 year, 4 months ago

There are a couple of ways to look at this. From a revenue stand point, KU Basketball is appealing to any conference because with ESPN and March Madness coverage there is money to be made for the conference. Yes, it's not football revenue, but hey money is money!

Now as for football, I DO think we need to get to 12 or 14 teams because that is the way college football is going, especially with the new playoff format. So I am all for going after the Florida State, Clemson, Virgina Tech, Louisville's. Because it could create a BigXII West/East conference which will help with recruiting AND cut down on travel because we would have two geographical conferences within one. I know, we want to not expand, but keep in mind that the NCAA could at anytime make it a rule that we would have to have a conference championship. So let go ahead and be proactive and not reactive.

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mikehawk 1 year, 4 months ago

Kansas politics will never allow KU and KSU to split. OU and OSU down here in Oklahoma have similar political issues. As long as Texas and OU, and the rest of the league stand pat and hold their water, the Big 12 will emerge as one of the four superpower conferences that appear inevitable. KU with our very weak football team and facilities, and fan base (currently), are not a point of interest for the Big 10, unless we go as a package with Kansas State. The league is much stronger and more stable right now if everyone sticks together. Get selfish and jump, and the strength evaporates and the league is doomed. Then, it is every man for themselves and we are not as attractive as the homies delude themselves into believing. It is cliche... but the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

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David Gisi 1 year, 4 months ago

I will admit that part of it is just plain selfishness on my part but I say if the B1G is a serious option KU should jump. That would put KU within 3 hour drive for me a few times a year. :)

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jayhawkinATL 1 year, 4 months ago

Feeling MUCH better with Bowlsby at the helm instead of Beebe.

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jayhawkinATL 1 year, 4 months ago

Florida State and Clemson...come on, down!!! Now that it appears the ACC is falling apart. LOL

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lama 1 year, 4 months ago

If the Big 10 offers, you take it, period. Too many academic/research benefits, plus stability that will elude the big 12 as long as the LHN is around. I think the Big 10 is much more likely to target Virginia or Georgia Tech, however.

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Stephan123 1 year, 4 months ago

Big12 is well positioned to withstand any future unrest related to expansion. It is the ACC that should be very concerned about the behemoths (SEC/BIG) salivating next door.

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Boouk 1 year, 4 months ago

Why would the Big 10, SEC, or PAC 12 want us in the first place?

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ahpersecoachingexperience 1 year, 4 months ago

Sooooooooooo, We'll get more money, be more competitive, and establish a better academic network.

But let's not go because we want to remain loyal to 9 school. 4 of which already tried to sell us out, 2 are new to the conference, and 1 little brother to the west that we've never liked.

Come on Tait, you're better than this.

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REHawk 1 year, 4 months ago

Hear here, all jaybate blasters and doubters. Keep nibblin' the d-CON, and by day's end you'll be found dead on yer feet!

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MoralVictory 1 year, 4 months ago

The football playoff makes expansion much less important. After 2014, the conference has a clear path to the tournament, so the only reason to expand is to add dollars either now or in the future. I hope that we stand pat.

To Matt's point, all of the logical teams to add to the conference from a geographical standpoint have all recently left the conference. So, if you want to add dollars, you add a Florida school. It gets you TV sets and it gets you recruiting. Clemson gets you neither.

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Vernon Riggs 1 year, 4 months ago

This round of Realignment is be driven by Tier3 Money. The B1G wants more viewers for their B1G Network. The SEC is starting their SEC Network in 2014. More TV sets equal more money. The key to the Big12 is Texas. If they stay, the Big12 stays intact. Texas has a big investment in the Longhorn Network. Why share that with 15 other teams if you don't have to? With the Big12, they don't have to.

Let the SEC and SEC pound the ACC and take Maryland, VA Tech, NC State, UNC and Virgina to fuel their cable networks. When the dust settles, the Big12 can grab 2, 4 or even 6 of the remaining schools to create a 'super conference'. The ACC will be weaken but they will survive as a basketball-first/football-second league.

The Big12 without a league-owned Tier3 outlet is just a spectator in this round.

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Robert Brock 1 year, 4 months ago

Since KU is inept at football, what conference is interested in scooping up the Hawks? Basketball is fine, but money is the issue.

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yates33333 1 year, 4 months ago

How about a complete merger of the ACC and Big 12 (or whatever)? A contest to name the new conference would increase fan interest if there were any left. KU might be able to win a game or two in football in this conference. (I am not willing to bet on it. Too much depends on Weis staying here) The basketball competition would better prepare us for the NCAA tournament, which is all that counts now-a-days. I don't know anything about track, other than I would call the new league, The Big Across America Conference (BAAC).

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getserious 1 year, 4 months ago

I also think the newness of all this expansion will die off soon. Let the idiots from Mizzou make a 14 to 24 hour drive to Tuscaloos, Gainesvill Fl, or Athens Ga a couple of times and they'll soon realize how nice it was to drive under 3 to Lawrence or Iowa to realize what they lost.

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getserious 1 year, 4 months ago

First I think we should add Louisville and Cincinnati to get to 12 teams and thus have a football championship again, not to mention we're called the Big 12. Those two schools would also give West Virginia more of a regional rivalry with some teams. Both those schools have been in the top 25 in Football most of the year. They have both been more sucessful on the field this year than either West Va or TCU. They are both always top 20 every year in basketball and are two huge cities. I would also think that OK and Tx both would think that on most years, they only have to beat the other one to get to the BIG 12 championship(football) and thus the automatic birth into the new BCS playoff. Enough of this expanding for tv markets, add these two(big markets I might add) to get to 12 teams and help West Va have some nearby schools to play. Makes sense right?

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Benjamin Piehler 1 year, 4 months ago

The B1G just wants our Google Fiber.

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jaybate 1 year, 4 months ago

Realignment Thought for the Day:

Regarding realignment, KU and Kansas will probably have to do whatever those in control of energy, ag subsidy, and distribution infrastructure in Kansas think is best for the red state/blue state competition for control of the electoral college map.

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jhkprd 1 year, 4 months ago

Jaybate has just been sipping too much early Christmas eggnog. His tongue is solidly pressing against his cheek, and he's adding a light-hearted spirit to this discussion. Thanks, Jaybate.

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neworleans 1 year, 4 months ago

How about KU moving into the SEC; perhaps they might win more games? hummm....

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John Mueller 1 year, 4 months ago

Dude-

What is wrong with u?

This is a sports bb.

Does anyone have any info about what our new commissioner has to say about the latest Big 10 developments?

I think we stay put in Big 12, but assume we need to add some teams.

Not a fan of the Lousiville addition.

But, I think adding Miami or Florida St is a great add. I also like GT for both TV market and football recruiting exposure to SE talent.

Where is Pitt in all of this? Can't keep track, but like them more than Louisville.

If I see one more electoral college post, I'm gonna track you down and beat u with your food stamps booklet....

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jaybate 1 year, 4 months ago

troutsee, you must be a smear monger. Tea party? That's a first. U r so confused u don't know which mud to smear with. :-)

Fear not. Total confusion always precedes a desperate need to learn how things work.

U r very near that point. :-)

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jaybate 1 year, 4 months ago

troutsee, you are so flipping naive, its sad. Economics is politics.

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edmondjayhawk 1 year, 4 months ago

Hey mojayhawk...don't just stop at Louisville....add Cincinnati also and get the conference back up to 12 teams. Both very solid in football and basketball.

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jaybate 1 year, 4 months ago

P.P.S.: Keep your eyes on these states for blue vs.red wrestling that could shape realignment beyond the Big 12: Missouri, Indiana, Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida.

Now fuggedabout realignment, because its all red state/blue state moves and counter moves that are going to go on for a couple more election cycles before settling out. Whatever KU does, it will not be done based on what is best for KU, or KU athletics. It will be based on whether the reds, or blues, control the state of Kansas.

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jaybate 1 year, 4 months ago

P.S.:

• KU will stay put.

• Big 12 expansion into having a full eastern time zone division will have to wait for a Republican Admin.

• Of course KU should join the Big Ten for many reasons, but it wont happen. The Big Ten would like to add KU, because re-allying Kansas and Nebraska would strengthen the fire wall of Nebraska blocking Canada to Texas bitumen pipelines and help get the blue states control of the infrastructure pinch point that is Kansas. This desire is why Sibelius was put in the Obama admin. and why she is being groomed for something bigger by the blue state alliance. But the Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas energy alliance will veto that move decisively.

• universities are pork conduits. Conferences are regional alliances of pork conduits. Pork conduits buy political influence in states with votes. States with votes are required to lay infrastructure and divert the revenues.

• its all about the electoral college map, stupid.

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bradynsdad 1 year, 4 months ago

I don't think anyone seriously "enjoys doing business with Texas". Do we not remember the last round when we were close to becoming members of the Mountain West or the Big east? If we don't answer the B1G call then the Big 12 better start poaching the ACC. Our football program is in the right direction but not strong enough to get us serious offers from other conferences.

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Janet Scott 1 year, 4 months ago

The Big 12 is far from stable, and anyone who holds that view is of an IQ=0 variety. KU must be the aggressor, if even invisibly so. KU sitting on their butt is the worst decision they can make. The Big 10 would placer KU in terrific shape for many years to come, plus such a move would give KU a bump in national prestiage.

The view from the East Coast here is Oklahoma and Texas will do what is best for them, damn the Big 12 and all the promises. Both the Longhorns and Sooners have demonstrated that "say-one-thing-do-something-else" mindset already. When the next sweet deal is put before them, these two football powers are gone -- and then the Big 12 becomes a joke on the national stage.

If anyone thinks the current "let's all hold hands and sing kum-by-ya" Big 12 deal will save the day for KU, I conclude those "anyones" couldn't find their way out of a phone booth if the door was left open. Insane.

If KU wishes to avoid the Mount Oread panic and wringing of hands caused by the last serious round of re-alignment, the Jayhawks will/must find an avenue to either the Big 10 or the Pac12 soon, and do so before Texas and/or Oklahoma make a move. I would love to see for once KU being in the driver's seat, as opposed to being the forelorned and jilted lover.

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jaybate 1 year, 4 months ago

• football never drove realignment, as I have been telling folks for a year.

• tv markets never drove realignment either, as I have been telling folks for a year.

• its the electoral college map stupid. Its the war between the red states and blue states and between each private oligarchy that controls them.

• geo-political strategy aimed at redistributing control of the political economy, especially regional infrastructure development and pork distribution underpins and drives all of it.

• universities are pork and political influence conduits being used to build regional alliances and voting blocks for acquiring control and diverting monies through the political economy.

• it is about positioning to control the electoral college map to determine who gets to control and profit from who lays the distribution and energy infrastructures we are being migrated to.

• this is not rocket science, this is just political alliances and private oligarchies wrestling for control, as usual.

• its the electoral map, stupid.

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Steve Corder 1 year, 4 months ago

I'll add to this mindless exercise:

Prediction: No conference raiding another conference for a team, or two or three, but rather conferences merging will be the talk of the town.

The "minor" sports stay regional to keep costs down, easy to do if there are 28 or 30 teams in a "conference".

With the coming football playoff system who needs the traditional conference alignments?

Persoanlly, I'd like a SEC/BIG12 merger. Growth populations, better weather, more recruits. And I could care less to play Iowa State, Texas Tech, Baylor (if you catch my drift) every year.

The BIG10 can keep the frozen tundra and Notre Dame.

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mojayhawk 1 year, 4 months ago

Louisville! Louisville! Louisville!

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itdontmtrtome 1 year, 4 months ago

Why doesn't big 12 just offer Louis and stay at 11 for now? This would keep ACC from getting them and force ACC to add another BB school. I believe this would set FSU to leaving ACC.

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dfybaby21 1 year, 4 months ago

One Bleacher Report (repeat, Bleacher Report, the pinnacle of quality journalism) article does not equal "One report even went as far as to peg KU as one of the latest Big Ten targets should the now-14-team league look to become the first 16-team superconference."

Kansas is close to losing its AAU status, has no football program, and has no market the Big 10 would want. Keep dreaming, though.

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THE_REAL_DEAL_WITH_BILL_MCNEIL 1 year, 4 months ago

Here's the thing. The PAC isn't going to just sit around and watch its only lucrative prospects possibly get picked off. If the PAC doesn't get Texas and Oklahoma, it will never have a decent plan for expansion. The only schools it could take would be on the East coast, and that has to be something they just don't want to do. Larry Scott isn't stupid. He sees all this coming.

I see a few scenarios playing out:

1) The PAC goes for Texas and Oklahoma again. They will offer 2 more schools to get to 16. They want Kansas to be one of those two, but if UT and OU throw a fit about OkState and TTech coming with them, the PAC will bend. Otherwise, they could be permanently shut out from improving their footprint and they know it. This leaves KU with the B1G, SEC, and ACC all as legitimate options.

2) Texas goes to the ACC. Notre Dame becomes a full ACC member. OU goes to the SEC or PAC. KU goes PAC or B1G.

3) The B1G goes for two of UVA, UNC, and KU. If KU goes to the B1G, the Big 12 is effectively dead and OU, UT, OkState, TTech all go to the PAC. If the B1G takes UVA and UNC, the Big 12, SEC, and PAC fight over the remaining ACC teams. The PAC hates this idea and won't let it happen.

Crazy scenario: The B1G actually goes for KU and MU (and MU accepts). The SEC now is on the full offensive, but we don't care at that point.

Bottom line: disintegration of the Big 12 is in KU's best interest. It will allow KU to associate with higher quality schools and much larger media markets, no matter the scenario.

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Chinese Laoshi 1 year, 4 months ago

Just keep men and women's basketball and let all other sports go. The extra money made with the football program is only good for paying tuitions for the golf team and their coaches ( and any other sports). If KU is a basketball -only school, life will not be that different for the alums and students.

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KUFan90 1 year, 4 months ago

I agree that I don't feel like we can stand pat. I agree w Hawkinator about answering the B1G phone call if it came. And I certainly think we need to be open to further expansion in the Big 12...like maybe going back to 12 teams at least?

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moonlightschlademan 1 year, 4 months ago

With cable television dollars (not fans) obviously driving the ongoing realignment mayhem, it would be interesting to know how hands on the ESPN, Fox network execs are in collusion with the conferences as the dominoes fall. Who truly is calling the shots between conferences and TV? Did the Longhorn network, an ESPN rose with enough thorns to drive the Aggies to the SEC, keep UT from heading west and save the Big 12? Do I need to vote with my DVR for KU football / Big 12 football games to keep the cash rolling in? The Big 12 may survive, but we may end up being the most geographically disjointed conference as we adopt a Mountaineer brother or await a Seminole sibling.

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