Thursday, November 22, 2012


Opinion: Leaving Big 12 doesn’t make sense for KU now


So here we are, the conference realignment waters stirring again and fans of Kansas University athletics wondering if any or perhaps every rumor they read should be taken seriously or ignored altogether.

The answer is yes.

With Maryland and Rutgers leaving the ACC and Big East to join the Big Ten earlier this week, administrators, coaches and, yes, even fan bases at schools across the country have tuned their realignment meters to the high-alert setting. With good reason. As we’ve seen before, movement from one conference to another does not always come with a lot of build-up before the bomb drops.

Although this week’s action has taken place on the East Coast and has yet to impact the Big 12 Conference or KU, plenty of advice has been handed out regarding what the Big 12 will — or is it should? — do and what options the Big 12’s members might have if and when the next round of nonsense hits.

One report even went as far as to peg KU as one of the latest Big Ten targets should the now-14-team league look to become the first 16-team superconference.

At this point, it’s much more likely that the Big 12 would expand before one of its members would leave. And even expansion seems like a long shot.

If this kind of KU-to-the-Big-Ten option presented itself five years ago, heck, even two years ago, the decision would have been easy. KU officials would have had to jump on it. It makes geographic sense. It makes financial sense. And, with teams like Indiana, Illinois, Maryland, Minnesota and Rutgers calling the conference home, it makes football sense, too.

But a lot has changed in the past couple of years. Enough, in fact, to make entertaining an offer next to impossible.

Kansas Athletics is now run by a man whose word means something and KU football, though still in rebuilding mode, appears in better shape than when Turner Gill was the face of the program. Oh yeah, and the basketball program added a Final Four, a title-game appearance and another NBA lottery pick to its list of accomplishments. But we all know where basketball ranks in all of this.

What’s more, after walking away from its own funeral, the Big 12 has repositioned itself as one of the nation’s power conferences. In addition to upgrading its television deals, unity and leadership, the league also has the unanimously approved granting-of-rights agreement that ties the schools together much more tightly than even a $50 million dollar exit penalty ever could. It’s moments such as these that were the reason behind the Big 12’s decision to go the rights route instead of focusing on dollars, which can, and seemingly always will, be negotiated down to a fraction of the original amount when parts get to moving.

With the Big Ten off the table, the focus shifts, at least around here, to what the Big 12 needs to do and can do to stay strong should the Maryland and Rutgers moves be the blocks that send the Jenga tower toppling over.

It’s true that the ACC is now more vulnerable than ever and it seems clear that future of that league is the key to everything. If the ACC survives, the madness could subside. If not, let the recruiting begin.

While picking up could-be ACC castoffs Florida State and, to a lesser degree, Clemson or Virginia Tech, would make some sense, the best move for the Big 12 today is the one that proved to be best during the two previous rounds of realignment — let patience, loyalty and logic carry you. With new television deals, fewer slices being taken out of a suddenly much-sweeter pie and 10 members that genuinely enjoy doing business together, it seems the Big 12 already got it right once.

Leaning on such core values may sound cheesy and like anything but the right course, but, aside from the destruction of a couple of long-standing rivalries, can you really say that those things failed the conference the first two times?


moonlightschlademan 5 years, 5 months ago

With cable television dollars (not fans) obviously driving the ongoing realignment mayhem, it would be interesting to know how hands on the ESPN, Fox network execs are in collusion with the conferences as the dominoes fall. Who truly is calling the shots between conferences and TV? Did the Longhorn network, an ESPN rose with enough thorns to drive the Aggies to the SEC, keep UT from heading west and save the Big 12? Do I need to vote with my DVR for KU football / Big 12 football games to keep the cash rolling in? The Big 12 may survive, but we may end up being the most geographically disjointed conference as we adopt a Mountaineer brother or await a Seminole sibling.

jhox 5 years, 5 months ago

After studying this more today, and thinking on it, this is what I think is happening. KU and NC are smoke screens. I would not be surprised if Texas is in cahoots with the Big 10 conspiring to break up the ACC. With the ACC gone and the Big East already neutered, the Big 12, SEC and Big 10 could swoop in and take their pick of the ACC members, and round out each conference to 16 teams. The Pac 12 will also figure out a way to get to 16. Then you have 4 super conferences and you can lock out any non member schools. Why would Texas be interested in doing this? They really want ND as part of the Big 12. If ND sees the writing on the wall (four 16 team super conferences) they have no choice but align with one. With Big 10 spots already spoken for, the Big 12 is the logical landing place for them. FSU and Clemson, perhaps Duke....who knows exactly how this shakes out, but I strongly suspect we're a step closer to four 16 team super conferences.

Pure speculation as to what schools will land where, but don't be shocked to see four 16 team super conferences a reality in the very near future.

Mike Bratisax 5 years, 5 months ago

Glad we aren't in the Big East or the ACC. I think the last super conference will be decided between these two conferences.

Mike Bratisax 5 years, 5 months ago

I haven't come to any conclusions as there is so many variables but you both make sound and logical reasons for the continuing realignment.

Personally, I hope we stay in a strong viable Big 12 Conference. Having signed a long-term contract with Fox and ESPN makes the Big 12 an attractive destination.

Notre Dame would be a huge addition since football is apparently the moneymaker and driver behind realignment but I'd like to see Louisville and Memphis added along with Florida State. It also brings in two huge football draws and two basketball powers. A nice balance.

The Big East and the ACC look to be in an all out struggle to be the fourth supe rconference.

David Hewitt 5 years, 5 months ago

There are 6 BCS conferences. SEC, Big-10 and Pac-12 have been adding teams and have no one looking to jump ship. The 4th would be either Big-12, ACC or Big East. Big East is losing all their good football schools, so they're out. Big-12 contract is much more impressive than the ACC's. If the Big-12 grabs Florida State they cement their spot as the eventual 4th superconference, should things continue in that direction.

Benjamin Piehler 5 years, 5 months ago

In case anyone is interested, here is a columnist who mentions UNC and KU as potential expansion targets for the B1G.

Dirk Medema 5 years, 5 months ago

Ithink that is what Matt was referring to in the article.

jhox 5 years, 5 months ago

If not for the 13 year grant of rights, the Big 10 would be a perfect fit for KU. However, the rumor I've heard is that Texas, Georgia Tech and UNC are at the top of the Big 10 wish list, I've not heard KU in that discussion. Regardless, unless some wealthy alum were to step forward with $100 or $200 million (ala Pickens) I don't see how any Big 12 school could afford that move with the grant of rights provision. I assume all the schools have already inked that deal. If the Big 10 does go after 2 more ACC teams (presumable Georgia Tech and UNC) the Big 12 would be wise to get off it's rear and go after FSU and Clemson or even Duke. While football has driven this thing, there has to be tremendous value in the Duke brand. All you have to do is fly around the country and see all the Duke T Shirts.

Or, it may be possible that Notre Dame might suddenly be in play (for all sports) if no viable option were to present itself for the non football sports. I would love the addition of ND and FSU to the Big 12. That would bring big time revenue generating potential to the conference.

Dirk Medema 5 years, 5 months ago

I find it hard to imagine the Huskers allowing UT into any conference they are associated with.

jhox 5 years, 5 months ago

They wouldn't have a problem with it because they realize Texas would not be able to run (ruin) the conference like they did the Big 12. Nebraska just hated Texas because Texas called the shots in the Big 12. The Big 10 would never allow that kind of situation to happen.

KUFan90 5 years, 5 months ago

I agree that I don't feel like we can stand pat. I agree w Hawkinator about answering the B1G phone call if it came. And I certainly think we need to be open to further expansion in the Big maybe going back to 12 teams at least?

Travis Clementsmith 5 years, 5 months ago

All kinds of ignorance in these scenarios.

  1. The PAC has a voting bloc against expansion and doesn't need to expand. They own everything west of the Rockies and you offered no valid reason why UT wants to go. UT wants their own little fiefdom, money is the primary motivating factor here. Four schools leaving the conference does not dissolve it and the remainder of the B12 would hold the media rights for 1st and 2nd Tier. Now, 6 teams gone might dissolve the conference, and if 16 isn't some holy number and the PAC expands to 20 (UT, TT, OU, OSU, KU, KSU), which would follow their business model of pairing regional rivals... that could be a possibility, but still low on probability.

  2. Why in the world would UT walk away from the B12 TV and Bowl deals to inferior ones in the ACC? It makes absolutely no sense and so kills every supposition that follows.

  3. This is most likely, except for the KU to the B1G part. The GoR does not make this a possibility in the near future. UVA and UNC have no GoR, have larger media markets and are more prestigious schools. KU is a smokescreen at best in this scenario.

Crazy: MU is not leaving the SEC, they have a bad enough image problem as it is.

Bottom line: Disintegration of the B12 is not in the best interest of Kansas. All the things that make a conference great are already found in the B12. I think expansion to 12 would improve things for KU, if they are value added schools.

Travis Clementsmith 5 years, 5 months ago

Well, once again, your assessment is shortsighted. The voting bloc was against expansion, not just certain teams. The Arizona schools, Colorado and Utah were concerned they were going to get caught in an "eastern division" limiting their exposure to California. I didn't have trouble reading your assessment, its just not very much worth digesting. The GoR is something the B1G and the PAC employ and they are not ready to try and prove that it "means nothing". UT and OU aren't "outside of any of the super conferences" right now, they are squarely in one. The ACC is the one in danger. It doesn't have a major Bowl with another major conference. It has an inferior TV contract. So, once again, you have given absolutely ZERO incentive. If there are going to be 4 super conferences, the ACC is not set up to be one of them. The PAC isn't in danger, they have a major Bowl partner and a lucrative TV contract. You're creating a shadow monster.

bradh 5 years, 5 months ago

MU could leave the SEC. The Star had an article just as MU announced their switch to the SEC that mentioned the higher mucks at MU saying they were going to the SEC, but if the Big 10 called they would go. SEC has no exit fees at the moment.

wfzman 5 years, 5 months ago

I would bet against the Pac getting Texas and/or TT. Why? Because Arizona, ASU and Colorado would lose the west coast. They be stuck going to Austin and Lubbock instead of LA and the bay area. Imagine what that would mean to their recruiting and fan base. Never happen.

Mike Bratisax 5 years, 5 months ago

I think we are in a strong position. A huge multi-year TV contract with Fox and ESPN plus the Sugar Bowl deal with the SEC doesn't hurt either.

Mike Bratisax 5 years, 5 months ago

This is the exact same argument brought forward the last time realignment started shaking up conferences. The SEC and the Big 12 are both strong conferences. The Big 12 will need to add 4-6 schools.

Kyle Seiwert 5 years, 5 months ago

One Bleacher Report (repeat, Bleacher Report, the pinnacle of quality journalism) article does not equal "One report even went as far as to peg KU as one of the latest Big Ten targets should the now-14-team league look to become the first 16-team superconference."

Kansas is close to losing its AAU status, has no football program, and has no market the Big 10 would want. Keep dreaming, though.

milehighhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

  1. It was more than just Bleacher Report. Try reading the other realignment article first.
  2. KU is "close" to losing its AAU status? That seems like reckless speculation, but feel free to provide a source.
  3. If you don't think the B10 wants the KC market, you are nuts. Besides, Maryland & Rutgers both have crappy football trams, proving football is no longer what guides the decisionmaking process.

Mike Bratisax 5 years, 5 months ago

I still think football is the driving force but completely agree on your other two points.

smithawk 5 years, 5 months ago

Please check the Omaha paper, the Minneapolis paper and two articles on ESPN. Not familiar with the Bleacher Report but that makes another article.

I don't think KU is going anywhere, but wondering if the Big 10 has the TV's covered and certainly has premier football covered and now they want to improve their basketball standing. Football still drives the bus but basketball still matters.

KU is no where near losing AAU status. With the developments at the med school we are stronger then ever.

Stan Unruh 5 years, 5 months ago

dfybaby21...Please show some proof that KU is close to loosing AAU status.

thespoon 5 years, 5 months ago

Kansas WAS close to losing its AAU status, as it is far down on the list for research grants, but once KU MED became a National Cancer Institute it was solidified. The AAU is all about research dollars and having a NCI brings in tons of research money. That is why getting the certification was so important. KU is locked in the AAU now.

Miles Nease 5 years, 5 months ago

There are about ten schools behind KU in R&D productivity that would be asked to leave before we would. Get a clue, troll.

Tony Bushard 5 years, 5 months ago

Nebraska lost its AAU status and no one is hurrying to boot them out of the B1G, i.e. is AAU status compulsory?

itdontmtrtome 5 years, 5 months ago

Why doesn't big 12 just offer Louis and stay at 11 for now? This would keep ACC from getting them and force ACC to add another BB school. I believe this would set FSU to leaving ACC.

Benjamin Piehler 5 years, 5 months ago


Edit: OHHH! Louisville. Much better pickup.

Steve Corder 5 years, 5 months ago

I'll add to this mindless exercise:

Prediction: No conference raiding another conference for a team, or two or three, but rather conferences merging will be the talk of the town.

The "minor" sports stay regional to keep costs down, easy to do if there are 28 or 30 teams in a "conference".

With the coming football playoff system who needs the traditional conference alignments?

Persoanlly, I'd like a SEC/BIG12 merger. Growth populations, better weather, more recruits. And I could care less to play Iowa State, Texas Tech, Baylor (if you catch my drift) every year.

The BIG10 can keep the frozen tundra and Notre Dame.

jaybate 5 years, 5 months ago

• football never drove realignment, as I have been telling folks for a year.

• tv markets never drove realignment either, as I have been telling folks for a year.

• its the electoral college map stupid. Its the war between the red states and blue states and between each private oligarchy that controls them.

• geo-political strategy aimed at redistributing control of the political economy, especially regional infrastructure development and pork distribution underpins and drives all of it.

• universities are pork and political influence conduits being used to build regional alliances and voting blocks for acquiring control and diverting monies through the political economy.

• it is about positioning to control the electoral college map to determine who gets to control and profit from who lays the distribution and energy infrastructures we are being migrated to.

• this is not rocket science, this is just political alliances and private oligarchies wrestling for control, as usual.

• its the electoral map, stupid.

jhawk23 5 years, 5 months ago

And the black helicopters, don't forget about them. And tell us about Area 51 again, Uncle Jaybate, and how the government has the UFOs.

minnhawk84 5 years, 5 months ago

Black helicopters are so 20th century. Think drones and those damn little mini-drones. There is one over your dwelling unit now.......

Benjamin Piehler 5 years, 5 months ago

They can read your license plate from space!!

jaybate 5 years, 5 months ago

Everything idiots and no-thinkers and inheritors can't understand they smear with conspiracy theory.

You are both pitiful.

This is the fartherest thing from a conspiracy humanly possible.

Read the flipping electoral college map.

Overlay the major proposed infrastructures.

See where they have to go.

See the red states. They are resource and ag subsidy driven.

Look at the blue states. They are urban/industrial/high tech driven.

Jesus H. Christ, you blithering idiots.

I can just hear you in 1861. Duh, this isn't about the North vs. the South. About urban industrial with wage earners vs. plantation agricultural with slaves. About who gets to build the transcontinental railroad across the north or the south. About who gets to prevail in foreign tariff agreements: the north or the south.

You flipping morons would say, "Duh, this is about some abolitionist guerillas raiding an armory. Of this we are absolutely sure." :-)

Fuggedaboutit. If you don't care how it works, I don't care if you don't care.


Jack Jones 5 years, 5 months ago


danmoore 5 years, 5 months ago

Jaybate, is there anyone is the national sports media that subscribes to your theory because to me it does sound like rocket science. Sorry but I'm not buying it. I think it is driven primarily by demographics. Silly me.

jaybate 5 years, 5 months ago

"Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth." M. Gandhi


danmoore 5 years, 5 months ago


If it’s the war between the red states and blue states how do you explain the Pac 10 going after Texas and Oklahoma or the Pac 8 adding the Arizona schools. Three blue states going after all the red states seems like an odd political alliance to me.

jaybate 5 years, 5 months ago

If you worked for national sports media that depended heavily on the one hand for adverts from The Big Three riding herd on the Big Ten states, and on the other on oilco advertising, when this was a situation where the often buddy buddy oilcos and CarCos are a little conflicted? Or would you talk about football tv revenues and media markets? :-)

wildjayhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

jayfart, you're full of bull$HIT. you don't know what you are talking about.

Bville Hawk 5 years, 5 months ago

In other words you would like for KU to play the part of MU in the last realignment party?

bradynsdad 5 years, 5 months ago

I don't think anyone seriously "enjoys doing business with Texas". Do we not remember the last round when we were close to becoming members of the Mountain West or the Big east? If we don't answer the B1G call then the Big 12 better start poaching the ACC. Our football program is in the right direction but not strong enough to get us serious offers from other conferences.

texashawk10 5 years, 5 months ago

Maryland disagrees with you about needing a competitive football program to get into the B1G. You need a good sized TV market and decent good academics.

jaybate 5 years, 5 months ago

You need to be able to block the northeast branch of the super corridor coming through your state and so keep it from reaching the Atlantic ocean; that's what Maryland has in spades for the Big Ten States and The Big Three car makers. :-)

jaybate 5 years, 5 months ago


• KU will stay put.

• Big 12 expansion into having a full eastern time zone division will have to wait for a Republican Admin.

• Of course KU should join the Big Ten for many reasons, but it wont happen. The Big Ten would like to add KU, because re-allying Kansas and Nebraska would strengthen the fire wall of Nebraska blocking Canada to Texas bitumen pipelines and help get the blue states control of the infrastructure pinch point that is Kansas. This desire is why Sibelius was put in the Obama admin. and why she is being groomed for something bigger by the blue state alliance. But the Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas energy alliance will veto that move decisively.

• universities are pork conduits. Conferences are regional alliances of pork conduits. Pork conduits buy political influence in states with votes. States with votes are required to lay infrastructure and divert the revenues.

• its all about the electoral college map, stupid.

troutsee 5 years, 5 months ago

You obviously are one of those delusional and sour graping tea party wackos. Econmics and the survival of KU will govern what we do, not politics. Personally, I feel that if we get a chance to join the B1G, go for it. Both of your posts are so far from reality, and are obviously soaked with the broth of paranoia and delusion. Get real!

Paul Wilson 5 years, 5 months ago

Economics is political Trouser. "Tea party wackos"? Yeah because wanting the Fed to stop spending and wasting is wack. You just keep your hand out with the rest of the parasitic left and you'll see how political our economy is.

Benjamin Piehler 5 years, 5 months ago

Common Pork & Trout... Didn't you get enough during the election season? I'm so tired of the venomous political atmosphere, especially online. It's over. Let KUsports be our sanctuary.

jaybate 5 years, 5 months ago

P.P.S.: Keep your eyes on these states for blue wrestling that could shape realignment beyond the Big 12: Missouri, Indiana, Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida.

Now fuggedabout realignment, because its all red state/blue state moves and counter moves that are going to go on for a couple more election cycles before settling out. Whatever KU does, it will not be done based on what is best for KU, or KU athletics. It will be based on whether the reds, or blues, control the state of Kansas.

edmondjayhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

Hey mojayhawk...don't just stop at Louisville....add Cincinnati also and get the conference back up to 12 teams. Both very solid in football and basketball.

jaybate 5 years, 5 months ago

troutsee, you are so flipping naive, its sad. Economics is politics.

jaybate 5 years, 5 months ago

troutsee, you must be a smear monger. Tea party? That's a first. U r so confused u don't know which mud to smear with. :-)

Fear not. Total confusion always precedes a desperate need to learn how things work.

U r very near that point. :-)

yates33333 5 years, 5 months ago

JB. There's nothing like a good, reasonable disagreement. I am impressed by the clarity of your analysis. What is it? Obviously troutsee is a fish out of water in this dispute. Anyone got the smelling salts?

troutsee 5 years, 5 months ago

So the electoral map and politics is driving conference realignment? Sorry, I don't see it. And, yes I do think the tea party wackos are the most destructive force to come to relative power in the United States since Klan power. I don't expect many Kansans to stand with me on that one but perhaps some of the younger ones have seen through the hypocrisy of the tea party and their right wing wacked out media outlets like Hannity, and Limbaugh, and O'rielly. I think the Governor of Kansas is waaaay out there with the nutso tea partiers.

minnhawk84 5 years, 5 months ago

Please, cut the politics. For every right-wing wackos there are left-wing wackos doing the same or worse thing. Read up on SEIU,, Acorn election fraud, the George Soros election machine blah blah blah blah blah. There's not a nickel's worth of difference between the two parties; to pretend otherwise proves political naivete.

actorman 5 years, 5 months ago

Congratulations, minnhawk, for continuing the idiotic "false equivalency" theory. If you don't realize that the whole Acorn thing, for one example, was part of the right wing's effort to suppress the vote, then you don't have a clue about what's going on. A few individuals within Acorn did some dumb things, but the organization itself did not do ANYTHING fraudulent.

And there's no one on the left who is even REMOTELY in the same bat-crap crazy camp as most of the Tea Partiers.

Joseph Kuebel 5 years, 5 months ago

Completely agree. Ron Paul 2012. Oh wait, the American public wants to vote for someone with a chance to win, but by doing so will never win, themselves.

jaybate 5 years, 5 months ago


And always in between there are sensible thinkers just laboring away as dutiful citizens are supposed to trying to cut to closest approximation of the truth, and blow away the chaff of right and left and the apparent disinformation being planted on the right and left in order to frame and manage the limits of discourse in full spectrum dominance in an era of heightening national and global security efforts.


John Mueller 5 years, 5 months ago


What is wrong with u?

This is a sports bb.

Does anyone have any info about what our new commissioner has to say about the latest Big 10 developments?

I think we stay put in Big 12, but assume we need to add some teams.

Not a fan of the Lousiville addition.

But, I think adding Miami or Florida St is a great add. I also like GT for both TV market and football recruiting exposure to SE talent.

Where is Pitt in all of this? Can't keep track, but like them more than Louisville.

If I see one more electoral college post, I'm gonna track you down and beat u with your food stamps booklet....

jhkprd 5 years, 5 months ago

Jaybate has just been sipping too much early Christmas eggnog. His tongue is solidly pressing against his cheek, and he's adding a light-hearted spirit to this discussion. Thanks, Jaybate.

Bville Hawk 5 years, 5 months ago

No, thought he was being facetious initially as well, but I think he believes his electoral college blue state / red state stuff. Kind of reminds me of the Russell Crowe character in "A Beautiful Mind."

jaybate 5 years, 5 months ago

Realignment Thought for the Day:

Regarding realignment, KU and Kansas will probably have to do whatever those in control of energy, ag subsidy, and distribution infrastructure in Kansas think is best for the red state/blue state competition for control of the electoral college map.

troutsee 5 years, 5 months ago

Absolutely ridiculous to the point of being laughable

jaybate 5 years, 5 months ago

But the only hypothesis that fits the facts.

The truth hurts sometimes.

We wish things were other than they are on the blue guitar.

I have tested the hypothesis long enough.

I said there would be no jumps before the election, because of everyone waiting to see who would have the White House to drive infrastructure policy. It happened.

I said there would be jumps afterwards, based on which candidate won. These are now underway.

Why don't you just lay off your keyboard and think for a little while?

I'm not hear to hold your flipping hand and help you learn to think. You have to do that for yourself.

Thinking hurts when you are new to it, but after while it is like getting in shape to ball. You learn to live with it because its so fun to play.


Ben Kliewer 5 years, 5 months ago

Notre Dame to the ACC happened before the election...

Allen Shepard 5 years, 5 months ago

That's not a real move... non-football.. drives nothing. Big East long dead....

jaybate 5 years, 5 months ago

ND was the exception that proved the rule.

ND parked their minor sports in the ACC and withheld deciding on football till after the election--a classic risk management straddle.

Thanks for helping me make this point clear.

getserious 5 years, 5 months ago

First I think we should add Louisville and Cincinnati to get to 12 teams and thus have a football championship again, not to mention we're called the Big 12. Those two schools would also give West Virginia more of a regional rivalry with some teams. Both those schools have been in the top 25 in Football most of the year. They have both been more sucessful on the field this year than either West Va or TCU. They are both always top 20 every year in basketball and are two huge cities. I would also think that OK and Tx both would think that on most years, they only have to beat the other one to get to the BIG 12 championship(football) and thus the automatic birth into the new BCS playoff. Enough of this expanding for tv markets, add these two(big markets I might add) to get to 12 teams and help West Va have some nearby schools to play. Makes sense right?

David Gisi 5 years, 5 months ago

But you have to ask the obvious question: Why are 2 schools like WVU and TCU less successful since moving to the Big 12? The answer is that its easier to win 1 or 2 difficult games a year than 5-6 or more. Even though the Big 12 is not as good as some past years, it is still competitive top to bottom. Even KU is not that far from at least being able to compete well against most of the conference. Case in point, just look at what Baylor did to KSU last week. Neither WVU or TCU has dropped that far from where they were, they are just playing better teams week in and week out. The argument that they are "in the top 25 in Football" doesn't hold much water. The Big East football competition has never been up to par with any other BCS conference. All this does is dilute the conference more. To add Cincinnatti and Louisville as the last 2 to get to 16 would be a good geographic fit if say the other 4 were FSU, GT, Pitt and then 1 other from the list of say BC, Clemson, UNC, etc. If there is expansion to the Big 12 it has to be 2 big time schools FIRST, then fill-ins. If you add fill-ins like Cinc and Lou to start with the Big 12 just weakens.

minnhawk84 5 years, 5 months ago

Pul-lease, no conference schools named after cities; it has a Conference USA bush league feel to it.

getserious 5 years, 5 months ago

I also think the newness of all this expansion will die off soon. Let the idiots from Mizzou make a 14 to 24 hour drive to Tuscaloos, Gainesvill Fl, or Athens Ga a couple of times and they'll soon realize how nice it was to drive under 3 to Lawrence or Iowa to realize what they lost.

yates33333 5 years, 5 months ago

How about a complete merger of the ACC and Big 12 (or whatever)? A contest to name the new conference would increase fan interest if there were any left. KU might be able to win a game or two in football in this conference. (I am not willing to bet on it. Too much depends on Weis staying here) The basketball competition would better prepare us for the NCAA tournament, which is all that counts now-a-days. I don't know anything about track, other than I would call the new league, The Big Across America Conference (BAAC).

Robert Brock 5 years, 5 months ago

Since KU is inept at football, what conference is interested in scooping up the Hawks? Basketball is fine, but money is the issue.

minnhawk84 5 years, 5 months ago

Every conference loves to have a patsy or two so the rest of the schools can get to six wins and be bowl eligible.

Benjamin Piehler 5 years, 5 months ago

Well Rutgers and Maryland aren't exactly stellar FB programs. They do have good TV markets though, which is why I've heard KU mentioned as speculation. There are more attractive schools population-wise but KC is an area of tremendous growth. It would be a long-term move. Naturally, this is speculation tho.

Vernon Riggs 5 years, 5 months ago

This round of Realignment is be driven by Tier3 Money. The B1G wants more viewers for their B1G Network. The SEC is starting their SEC Network in 2014. More TV sets equal more money. The key to the Big12 is Texas. If they stay, the Big12 stays intact. Texas has a big investment in the Longhorn Network. Why share that with 15 other teams if you don't have to? With the Big12, they don't have to.

Let the SEC and SEC pound the ACC and take Maryland, VA Tech, NC State, UNC and Virgina to fuel their cable networks. When the dust settles, the Big12 can grab 2, 4 or even 6 of the remaining schools to create a 'super conference'. The ACC will be weaken but they will survive as a basketball-first/football-second league.

The Big12 without a league-owned Tier3 outlet is just a spectator in this round.

Vernon Riggs 5 years, 5 months ago

Sorry, Let the SEC and B1G pount the ACC...

MoralVictory 5 years, 5 months ago

The football playoff makes expansion much less important. After 2014, the conference has a clear path to the tournament, so the only reason to expand is to add dollars either now or in the future. I hope that we stand pat.

To Matt's point, all of the logical teams to add to the conference from a geographical standpoint have all recently left the conference. So, if you want to add dollars, you add a Florida school. It gets you TV sets and it gets you recruiting. Clemson gets you neither.

REHawk 5 years, 5 months ago

Hear here, all jaybate blasters and doubters. Keep nibblin' the d-CON, and by day's end you'll be found dead on yer feet!

Bville Hawk 5 years, 5 months ago

Are you by any chance Jaybate's long neglected illegitimate bastard son? Just wondering...

jaybate 5 years, 5 months ago

XTRemely low blow.

No offense, but you don't deserve to lick the sweat off his roller bearings.

So don't take whacks at them.

I'm alway around to kick for those that want to.

ahpersecoachingexperience 5 years, 5 months ago

Sooooooooooo, We'll get more money, be more competitive, and establish a better academic network.

But let's not go because we want to remain loyal to 9 school. 4 of which already tried to sell us out, 2 are new to the conference, and 1 little brother to the west that we've never liked.

Come on Tait, you're better than this.

Matt Tait 5 years, 5 months ago

Would get more money... Would.... But not now with the granting of rights deal firmly in place. Unless the Big 12 falls apart, moving now -- to any conference -- would be athletic department suicide.

Matt Tait 5 years, 5 months ago

That may very well be true, but that's a helluva gamble to take on something that's not exactly a sure thing.

Boouk 5 years, 5 months ago

Why would the Big 10, SEC, or PAC 12 want us in the first place?

BayPark 5 years, 5 months ago

My thoughts exactly. I'd be surprised if we're better than a fourth or fifth best option. Our best hope is to stay where we are and push for league expansion.

Stephan123 5 years, 5 months ago

Big12 is well positioned to withstand any future unrest related to expansion. It is the ACC that should be very concerned about the behemoths (SEC/BIG) salivating next door.

lama 5 years, 5 months ago

If the Big 10 offers, you take it, period. Too many academic/research benefits, plus stability that will elude the big 12 as long as the LHN is around. I think the Big 10 is much more likely to target Virginia or Georgia Tech, however.

jayhawkinATL 5 years, 5 months ago

Florida State and Clemson...come on, down!!! Now that it appears the ACC is falling apart. LOL

jayhawkinATL 5 years, 5 months ago

Feeling MUCH better with Bowlsby at the helm instead of Beebe.

David Gisi 5 years, 5 months ago

I will admit that part of it is just plain selfishness on my part but I say if the B1G is a serious option KU should jump. That would put KU within 3 hour drive for me a few times a year. :)

mikehawk 5 years, 5 months ago

Kansas politics will never allow KU and KSU to split. OU and OSU down here in Oklahoma have similar political issues. As long as Texas and OU, and the rest of the league stand pat and hold their water, the Big 12 will emerge as one of the four superpower conferences that appear inevitable. KU with our very weak football team and facilities, and fan base (currently), are not a point of interest for the Big 10, unless we go as a package with Kansas State. The league is much stronger and more stable right now if everyone sticks together. Get selfish and jump, and the strength evaporates and the league is doomed. Then, it is every man for themselves and we are not as attractive as the homies delude themselves into believing. It is cliche... but the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

minnhawk84 5 years, 5 months ago

see my post above. Every conference needs patsys in football. Indiana, Kansas, Minnesota, Iowa know. If one of the traditional patsys rises up (see: K-State) ok, makes conference look better.

jhox 5 years, 5 months ago

I don't buy this. I know one of the board of regents members. Obviously they would like to see the two aligned, it push came to shove, they would let one go if it meant both would not end up in a second tier conference.

pepper_bar 5 years, 5 months ago

My hair stylist plays frisbee with several members of the board of regents. He says KU is joining the Justice League.

Bville Hawk 5 years, 5 months ago

If athletic success (specifically and especially football) then explain to me again why the B1G wanted Nebraska?

Joseph Kuebel 5 years, 5 months ago

Ku has very good football facilities... Top ten in the country I've read on many occasions.

Kevin Randell 5 years, 5 months ago

There are a couple of ways to look at this. From a revenue stand point, KU Basketball is appealing to any conference because with ESPN and March Madness coverage there is money to be made for the conference. Yes, it's not football revenue, but hey money is money!

Now as for football, I DO think we need to get to 12 or 14 teams because that is the way college football is going, especially with the new playoff format. So I am all for going after the Florida State, Clemson, Virgina Tech, Louisville's. Because it could create a BigXII West/East conference which will help with recruiting AND cut down on travel because we would have two geographical conferences within one. I know, we want to not expand, but keep in mind that the NCAA could at anytime make it a rule that we would have to have a conference championship. So let go ahead and be proactive and not reactive.

getserious 5 years, 5 months ago

Once again, I say Texas and OU see our conference as an easy path to the final 4 in the new football BCS. If we don't take some schools near West Va, the newness will wear off with them and they will bolt for the ACC or Big 12 if they get an invite. Adding Louisville and Cincy gives the Big 12 a huge footprint in the Easten Midwest and doesn't scare off Texas or OU. Also elevates our conference hugely in Basketball.

average 5 years, 5 months ago

What do UT and OU get out of splittling their ESPN pie even more ways? They barely even wanted WVU. If Texas/OU need 8 more patsies to have a 'legit' conference, they were fine with Houston, SMU, etc.

ISU, TCU, K-State, etc want Lousiville/Cincy/etc because they're fair matches for those schools and give their home some stability. UT and OU? Don't care. The league could dissolve tomorrow and those two programs would land on their feet.

Robert Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

Not sure why one school and not even a strong school leaving the ACC all of the sudden makes them vulnerable. They have a couple of schools waiting full the vacancy. I know the speculation is that the Big 10 may not be done. Since this is clearly a ploy to get access to more TV sets, schools like UNC, Virginia and Ga Tech are clearly more attractive than KU.

I don't know how firm the grant of rights is, but it sounds tougher than an exit fee. It still amazes me that some people actually think KU has leverage. They clearly do not and the more iron clad the grant of rights is the better for KU because it locks in OU and UT.

average 5 years, 5 months ago

I don't begrudge any of the Big XII departees for a second. If KU had gotten the call that CU/NU/MU/aTm got, we would have jumped. Immediately. The exact same is true in Ames and Manhattan (even longer-shots than us).

If the Pac schools do get Texas and OU somehow (doesn't make the most sense, but what does) and everything goes to 16, I guess the default fallback is a "Big 8" and "core ACC" agreement with two nice geographical subdivisions. Football would only play one cross-division game a year. Non-revenue sports would usually never go cross-division except for a season-end championship. Basketball with UNC and Duke and Wake in a league? Sweet. We'd be half-a-tier behind the B1G, SEC, and PAC, but a half-tier above the next step down (MWC, Big East remnants, etc).

Rocky Curtis 5 years, 5 months ago

I'm not as "up-to-speed" on the ins and outs of our league, and . . . therefore have no idea what this comment is in relation to. Can someone, more knowledgeable, please explain to me what a "granting-of-rights agreement" is? Thank you.

"the league also has the unanimously approved granting-of-rights agreement that ties the schools together much more tightly than even a $50 million dollar exit penalty ever could."

Robert Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

My understanding is that grant of rights means that if KU were to go to the BIg 10, they would have to surrender its Tier1 and Tier2 rights revenue to the conference through the next 13 years. This pretty much locks in all Big 12 schools through 2025. I am sure there is a legal out but one of the reasons to switch conferences is money. Grant of rights means that you get no TV revenue if you leave which for the Big12 is $20m per school per year which is about 25-30% of KU's athletic budget

Matt Tait 5 years, 5 months ago

The granting of rights is/was a move made by the Big 12's 10 schools that basically says, the league owns each school's 1st- and 2nd-tier television rights (read: revenue) for the next 13 years.

Obviously, as long as the schools remain in the league, they will continue to get their share of the pie that, each year, is distributed by the Big 12 to its member institutions. However, if a school chose to leave the Big 12 for another conference, those rights (read: all TV revenue earned) would still be owned by the Big 12.

Therefore, if someone were to jump to the Big Ten, whatever money that school would make from the Big Ten's television contracts would essentially go to the Big 12 for the next 13 years.

ArgyleJayhawks 5 years, 5 months ago

If KU wanted to leave (and I'd think they jump at the chance to join the Big 10), they could easily fight/settle to lower that agreement. Long term, the Big 10 is a much more stable conference. As many other columnists have noted, the Big 12 is years away from having a TV network thanks to the Longhorn Network situation.

pepper_bar 5 years, 5 months ago

Matt, you know the Big 12 rights agreement is completely unenforceable, right? It'll easily be voided as unconscionable and/or inappropriate due to changes in circumstances as soon as a big-boy school with big-boy lawyers decides it wants to leave.

Matt Tait 5 years, 5 months ago

You could be right, but I think you may be mistaken... I've been told that more than 20 lawyers looked over the contract multiple times before all Big 12 schools signed it. It's not air tight, and there's certainly room to wiggle (as there is with everything) but it's pretty close.

Bville Hawk 5 years, 5 months ago

Complete B.S.

As with any substantial agreement, all parties were represented by their own counsel. Also, the president of Baylor (Kenneth Starr) is a somewhat famous attorney who showed he wasn't going to let Baylor get screwed the last time the stuff started hitting the fan.

lama 5 years, 5 months ago

Is the grant of rights enforceable? And has any departing team actually paid the full departure fee to a league?

Robert Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

Long term I could see stronger alliances with other conferences most likely either the SEC or Pac12. We already have a bowl agreement with the SEC. I could see a scheduling alliance where there is something like an SEC -Big 12 challenge in football where every Big12 school plays an SEC school in non conference. That would certainly generate revenue. The same thing could be done with the PAC 12.

dynamitehawk 5 years, 5 months ago

I just realigned 6 boulevard pale ales in my fridge to make room for 6 more. Happy Thanksgiving Jayhawk Nation. Here's to adding Louisville, Clemson, and FSU.

Andy Tweedy 5 years, 5 months ago

This round, and even the last round, isn't really about football any more. Clearly it's about money, but Rutgers? Maryland? Pitt? Syracuse? Hell, we have more tradition in the last 20 years than these guys. So I would bet KU IS more attractive to a raid than we were before. But I'd be ecstatic to stay where we are, as long as we can get back to 12. That allows another winnable football game on the schedule and a conference championship game, and that money would put a big dent in the "other slice of the pie." I'm also intrigued by the idea of a merger with another conference. The PAC 12, Big 12 conferences together? AWESOME!!! Sign me up...

Just don't stay at 10!!! 10 SUCKS!!!

pepper_bar 5 years, 5 months ago

My seventh cousin totally works for ESPN, and he says the Big 12 is going to add Florida State, Hawaii, Oxford, the Sorbonne, Baker, and Hogwarts.

Robert Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

Every so often I find Boulevard here in Houston. It's a nice 80 deg day down here.

texashawk10 5 years, 5 months ago

Spec's and HEB are the places to go for Boulevard in Houston. The Spec's just south of downtown is the only place I know to get more than the Wheat or Sampler packs though which sucks because I'm by Willowbrook.

Brian Skelly 5 years, 5 months ago

Pure speculative opinion here (isnt all of this), but I think we should add Louisville as soon as possible. We know they have interest. We know there is interest within the confines of the conference higher ups (maybe not a majority, but we know its there). It's clear that TV and politics were in play hugely here with the WVU over Louisville thing -- justified by the concept as well.

But this go around seems different. And I DO agree we're either growing or shrinking... or waiting to be shrunken. The reality is if OU and UT want to be in the Big 12, it will exist. If they dont and decide to bolt, it wont. To me there's no gray area there.

I dont however buy the idea that UT is ready to walk. They did their flirting both in public (Pac 10 / ACC) and in private (Big 10). Short of UT getting religion on sharing or trying to devlop a T3 package for the whole conference (or something similar to what the Pac-12 is trying -- regional networks tied into the conference) there will not be a Bevo herd traveling elsewhere. That doesnt mean it couldnt happen obviously. But remember... they were GONE to the Pac... until it was obvious they were NOT budging on the longhorn network. And its already been shown that OU alone isnt want the Pac 12 wants (although that could change to).

It's also why im more confident now than I was before about KU's place at one of the big boy tables. There would have to be a 180 on a lot of powerful peoples minds for it to not be.

I think by adding Louisville and going to 11 you create one less option for the ACC. You also thrill FSU and Clemson by assuring that the ACC's next team likely will be a school with a weak ass football program. Ask FSU fans about their SOS because of their conference this year. Hows that working out for them? One loss and they have NO SHOT at the title because of it. It doesnt mean those schools would bolt. But my guess is they'll think about it long and hard if they havent already.

By going to 11 as well, we still avoid the Championship Game in football. I DONT agree with that idea mind you, but it would accomplish two things... growing and keeping OU and UT somewhat satisfied. Lets not pretend that doesnt matter either.

I also think there is something to be said that none of these Conference commissioners wants to be the one who is tagged as the guy who really blows this stuff up -- although im quite sure we'd all vote for Dan Beebe. Id love ALL the ACC 'football schools' to join up. But im also quite sure that the SEC will get the 2 they want ahead of us. Thats sounding like NCState and VaTech (new TV markets). If we ended up with FSU/Clemson/Miami/GaTech/Louisville/Cincinnati wouldnt that be more than adequate and secure?

jaybate 5 years, 5 months ago

You only add Louisville if you think you can punch the Super Corridor up the Ohio and need them for the same reason you grabbed West Virginia.

But two things make it doubtful until another republican administration.

First, Rutgers New Jersey and Maryland joining the blue state alliance just firewalled access to an Atlantic port in the Bo-Wash Corridor. Louisville is not necessary, if you can't punch the corridor through.

Second, even if Louisville wanted to join for athletic reasons, the state of Kentucky is now one of the largest assemblers of automobiles in the USA, maybe the largest. Half its bidness is foreign car manufacturers, but half is domestic Big Three. i kind of doubt that the Big Three, which are cornerstone players in all of the Big Ten states because of manufacturing operations, are going to look kindly on Senator Mitch moving Louisville and the state of Kentucky into bed with the Big 12 backed by a Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas energy alliance that wants to punch a Super Corridor right of way up the Ohio to the Atlantic cost that will strip away the Big Ten state's control of distribution and transportation and energy infrastructure in their region. :-)

Dirk Medema 5 years, 5 months ago

Matt - The SEC & Big 12 created a bit of rivalry by creating the Champions Bowl. What do you think the chances are of going after a few of the in-state rivals of SEC teams and building the team level rivalries as well? FSU-UF, Clemson-USC, GT-UGA, L-ville - UK? That would be one of the fews ways that I could see UT-A&M and KU-MU being a possibility again.

thelonious 5 years, 5 months ago

I like this idea, it makes sense especially in light of the Champions Bowl tie-in, and you could add the re-establishment of UT-Arkansas and/or OU/A&M, OU-Arkansas, OSU-Arkansas, UT-LSU as potential inter-conference rivalries as well. Would make everyone yawn about what was going on in the Pac-12 and B1G. If football and TV $$$ are what is really driving this, then this is the scenario that makes the most sense to me. Although I will admit that seeing KU in the B1G would be cool, especially in light of the fact that MU wanted in there so badly... :-)

JayhawkerX3 5 years, 5 months ago

  1. There has been a lot of "talk" about the GofRs. However, I have yet to see a story that says everything has been SIGNED, not just "agreed" to. Last article I read about two months ago said everyone had "agreed" to them but the "lawyers" for each team were looking over the various documents and offering "suggestions." Can anyone CONFIRM whether any SIGNED document(s) exist(s)? 2, I understand that at least in the DRAFT of the document, any legal proceedings regarding the document must be brought in STATE court in Dallas TEXAS! If true, it makes me wonder how "impartial" such a court might be, especially if TEXAS is contesting something.
  2. Texas and to a much lesser extent Oklahoma "call the shots" in the BigXII. But, that will occur in ANY conference...the "big guys", be it in population, dollars, size, whatever will always do so. BUT, with Texas having probably as much of those things as EVERYONE ELSE PUT TOGETHER makes their importance to the BigXII overwhelming. No other conference has such a single DOMINANT institution. The BigXII only exists while it's in Texas' interest to have it exist. When that is no longer the case, it will be gone. As with any school, INCLUDING KU, each school should/will/must do what is in ITS best interest, the other schools be damned. Is being in the BigXII in KU's best interest? Maybe. But what if it is (or no longer becomes) in Texas' interest that we be here. Is there a plan?. 4 I think we may looking at a tree, and not the forest. IF the B1G would come calling (which, unfortunately, I doubt), not only would at least potentially the ultimate pay-off in SPORTS revenue AND potentially prestige occur, BUT, a B1G member a school is always invited to the CIC (the B1G research alliance) which shares (albeit, not equally) literally BILLIONS of research dollars annually If you don't know about the CIC here is a quick summary: For KU to become a part of THAT group would mean far more to the University than the "sports" side could ever hope.

Frankly, that the BigXII "needs" a GofRs tells you much about the conference. You can tell how "stable" a conference is if you look at what it "costs" to the B1G, Pac12 and SEC that is NOTHING (no GofRs, no "exit fee"). IF there is an impediment to leaving, it means the conference is unstable. In a stable conference no one WANTS to leave. With the ACCs exit fee and our GofRs,.....well.......

Robert Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

Well thought out post. I agree with your assertion that the grant off rights reflects instability compared to the other top three conferences. However, you have to look at the grant of rights as helping schools like KU and KSU more than they help OU or UT. The fact they signed it indicates a commitment. It definitely stopped all of the talk of the conference dissolving which was good for KU.

Again I don't understand why people think we have options. We clearly do not. It is something that is difficult for me to accept but we have no football program to speak of. We have had one winning conference record in 17 years. We do not serve a large population and cling to the AAU membership like that is the ticket to better stability.

We are better off working to strengthen the Big 12.

JayhawkerX3 5 years, 5 months ago

Again, I'm not sure there is a "legally binding" GofRs in effect. But as to KU (and the other smaller schools) I would agree IF there is a legally binding document it helps us. On the other hand, it's not really an impediment for KU to leave if they get a chance. A "penalty" can not be punitive, only compensatory. Therefore, assuming that KU would want to "leave" and the Big XII finds another school to "replace" us, only if the size of the "total package" is reduced would KU have liability. In other words, unless the BigXII could prove they "lost" money by KU leaving which they could not replace by adding another school, KU would have no liability!

I also agree that unfortunately we have few options, at least at this time. I don't think the lack is options is based solely on the football field (see, Maryland, Rutgers!!!), our lack of options is due to lack of population (TV markets) we could bring.

Until (which will probably be never) the B1G comes calling, I agree....strengthening the BIG XII is the best (and probably the ONLY course of action we have.

jaybate 5 years, 5 months ago

"Some Under-Reported Quotes Directly or Indirectly Relevant to Realignment"

"War and economics are politics by other means."

--von Clausbate, "On War, Economics, Politics and Finance"

"Politics is central banking by other means."

--von Clausbate, "On War, Economics, Politics and Finance"

"No producer oligopolist can survive without massive government subsidy supplied by the taxes of those being gouged by price fixing."

--Adam Bate, "The Wealth of Producer Oligopolies in Nations Subordinated to Private Central Banking"

"20 percent of the people support 80 percent of the people, because the top .5% of the people have outsourced the jobs of the 80 percent to peonage and slave labor markets."

--Vilfredo Paretobate, "Paretobate Suboptimizing and the Upward Redistribution of Wealth"

"The Prince must use any and all means, including private, not-for-profit athletic departments and their universities, to build the regional state alliances necessary to impose infrastructure succession that enables the unification of the North American electric power grid."

--Machiavellibate, The Prince of Energy

"Realignment economics is a subject profoundly conducive to cliche, resonant with boredom. On few topics is a board rat audience so practiced in turning off its ears and minds. And none can say that the response is ill advised."

--John Kenneth Galbate

(Note: All fiction. No malice)

okiedave 5 years, 5 months ago

The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. It seems that it is the athletically challenged schools wanting to jump somewhere else --- perhaps thinking things will improve.

Steve Gantz 5 years, 5 months ago

Big 12 is the best provided it stays intact. Big10 is the next best, as a Big10 fan myself, I'd be thrilled to see KU in the conference, particularly if NC comes along for the ride. PAC12 is awful if only because I don't want to ever, not even once, have to stay up til midnight on a worknight to watch KU play a Beaver, a Duck, a Bear or a Trojan. SEC because it's so weak basketball wise and so stinking strong football wise, just the opposite of what we are is a terrible, terrible fit, except that I live in SEC country and would get to see them in person on occasion.

jgkojak 5 years, 5 months ago

Destroying the ACC should be the first priority for everyone not the ACC.

That said- 1) If, for some reason, the B10 needs KU as team #16, we go, no questions asked.

2) It's more likely the B10 will grab UNC and VA - two very prestigious academic schools. At that point they control everything from Nebraska to the Atlantic Ocean, including two of the three biggest media markets - Chicago and NYC. (No, its not about Rutgers, its about B10 alumni in NYC, DC, etc. who can now watch their schools every week, and about recruiting NYC to DC).

3) At that point, the B12 has to offer FSU and Clemson, and possibly Ga Tech, Pittsburg (WVU rival), a safe landing spot. If they play it right, it sets up a B12 East with 7 teams in the eastern time zone and TCU, and a B12 West right w/the remaining teams. THAT would be solid for KU.

Robert Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

That would be a solid and plausible scenario. I really doubt the ACC will disintegrate. Even if the Big10 grabs two more teams there are still 11 teams left and there are a couple of teams that are dying to get invited. There is nothing magical about 14 teams. The Big 12 is happy with 10. Even if the SEC grabs two teams the ACC will have enough teams to field a conference.

lama 5 years, 5 months ago

UNC will not leave the ACC unless the league implodes. Of course, that's possible if the SEC grabs NC State and Va Tech, which may be what Delany has in mind.

Steve Gantz 5 years, 5 months ago

With the addition of Rutgers now the Big 10 does control everything from Nebraska to the Atlantic Ocean, not to mention Penn St. has been there since 1990 and is for all intents and purposes THE ONLY major college football team from State College to the east.

jgkojak 5 years, 5 months ago

What does the above 16 team B12 look like?

B12 EAST West Va Florida St@ Clemson@ @Teams #11 and #12 Georgia Tech+ Pitt+ +Teams #13 and #14 Louisville Notre Dame *Teams #15 and #16 - come in as a pair TCU (for a trip to Texas for the East schools)


Josh Galler 5 years, 5 months ago

Here is what I think

Big 10 add UNC and Duke to be 16 SEC add Virgina Tech and NC State to be 16 Big 12 add FSU, Clemson, GA Tech, Pitt, Louisville, Virginia Pac 12 to add BYU, Boise State, SDSU, and Colorado State

ku1otaku 5 years, 5 months ago

Pac-12 will not add BYU. I believe that has already been mentioned in the past when they were the Pac-10.

jgkojak 5 years, 5 months ago

Why would the B10 add Duke? The trick is to be in as many DIFFERENT media markets as possible - UNC and Duke are the same media market - and Duke itself is nothing special outside basketball - it will end up in whatever the Big East/remainder ACC teams play in.

SEC will add NC State and Va Tech

Also - Virginia will never go to the B12 - it is a hugely prestigious academic institution - they'd go the B10 - but wouldn't be caught dead w/the likes of WVU or K-State.

Boise State is a non-starter as well- extremely poor academics

Bville Hawk 5 years, 5 months ago

Ha, ha, ha! Texas to the ACC! Good one! Very funny post!

sabosm 5 years, 5 months ago

Of course we don't belong in any other conference, but the only conference that is worth us joining would be the ACC where Duke and Carolina are, or even joining the same conference as Missouri

Robert Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

Bottom line is that the Big 12 is the number four conference and while it is clearly behind the SEC, Big 10 and PAC 12, it is in a solid position and can afford to wait and see what happens to the schools on the east coast. The is no magical number of teams that a conference needs. The Big 10 expanded to increase the size of its network and generate more money. The Big 12 does not have a similar network so the criteria for expansion is different. Any new member will have to add enough to the pie so that everyone gets a bigger piece. Give that the Big 12 schools get as much per school for its media rights as any school in the top three conference, they will be selective in adding teams.

By the way, everyone talks about how much revenue the Big 10 network generates and it does but perhaps not as much as a lot of people think. Last year it distributed about $100m to the 12 schools. That's about $8m per school for third tier rights. I think KU get about the same amount for its third tier rights a move to the Big 10 may mot be as lucrative for the athletic department as some believe.

The model that lets UT keep the Longhorn Network is actually good for KU.

SCOE 5 years, 5 months ago

Big 12 be proactive for once!! Be the first to 16. Think about it, add FSU, Clemson, Geo Tech, Louisville, now stay with me NC and Duke. For football you add TV markets in Florida, and Georgia. Now that gives you more TV markets for football = more TV money. Now how much money would your basketball TV contract be worth with KU, Louisville, NC, and Duke in one conference. Sure your splitting the money 16 ways vs 10 but now your TV contracts are worth more and you are already at 16 teams so you have yourself covered when the BCS finally decides that it should have just four sixteen team conferences for its championship series. The only thing that would be better is if you could somehow get ND in your conference. Just a random thought.

Brian Skelly 5 years, 5 months ago

I'll stick the idea of grabbing Louisville... and then waiting for other pieces to fall. I agree that the concept of both Rutgers, Maryland leaving for the Big 10 arent 'death knells' for either the Big East or the ACC. But if we took Louisville and the ACC took UConn the beginning of the end (or about the 8th beginning of the end) for the Big East would be starting.

And while I do agree with the idea that places like FSU or Clemson wouldnt necessarily leave the ACC there is no question that it would exacerbate the already brewing problems there. Both those schools will make at least 8-10 million LESS per year over the next several decades than both Florida and South Carolina -- their main instate competitors. And that doesnt even include the idea that the SEC is going to roll out a regional sports network they are going to push nationwide -- not unlike the Big 10 network. That dollar differential isnt going to shrink, its going to grow. Im quite sure both schools would would go to the SEC if the offer was there. They maybe. But im quite sure UF and USC are going to red flag those ideas before their out of the box.

I also dont think FSU / Clemson / whomever (other than possibly Louisville) moves unless there are a whole group of them moving. I just cant see that happening. It's why I dont think we'd see a Big 12 just adding Louisville / FSU. Or even just FSU / Clemson. Now, if other ACC 'football schools' made the move you might be on to something.

Who knows. We'll probably have a lot of fits and starts with all this. Im fine going to 16, but I think all these guys dont want to be the ones to do it yet. It's also worth noting that if the ACC gets picked apart by the Big 12, Big 10 (UVA/UNC)?, SEC (NCSt/VaTech) that im quite sure Notre Dame's "alliance" with them wont go anywhere. Just saying.

pepper_bar 5 years, 5 months ago

Yeah, Louisiana Tech is competitive with LSU, and NIU has a huge following in Chicago. Those are definitely schools that scream "we're a major conference."

At least you got Louisville right. Louisville is the Iowa State of Kentucky.

Steve Gantz 5 years, 5 months ago

NIU barely registers in Chicago. They hardly show highlights unless none of the other pro teams and major college teams that Chicagoans do care about aren't playing. I now live in Louisiana and that suggestion does not fly either. They're not a major team, although they would beat the pants off KU this year in football.

FLJHK 5 years, 5 months ago

Miscellaneous observations:

  1. On the petty level of college athletics, and particularly Div 1 football, it seems as if the nation is best served by a minimum of five major conferences. It is clear which five those are. However, things seem to be in motion for the eventual emergence of four, 16-team superconferences. Three of those are clear; the Big 12 and ACC will compete to be the 4th.

  2. In the ACC-Big 12 battle, tradition, academic pedigree and population favor the ACC. The Big 12 wins on football, and by largely delivering the state of Texas. As goes Texas, so goes the Big 12. That's not a reality that should provide much in the way of comfort to the rest of the conference.

  3. There are multiple viable ways for the B1G and SEC to poach their way to 16 teams. Routes for the PAC are far less obvious or desirable, but that conference is truly the wild card in all of this. The PAC's only viable route of expansion is with Big 12 teams, geographically and culturally awkward as that may be. But the PAC is the potential linchpin for the demise of the Big 12.

  4. I don't know how or to what degree politics plays in this game but it is silly not to consider it at minimum a major factor. It's pretty interesting to look at the major conferences from a red state - blue state perspective. The SEC and Big 12 are basically red; the PAC and Big 10 mostly blue, and the ACC mainly blue but mixed. But broader considerations such as energy, resource extraction, trade corridors and like matters may also be in play. How this plays out in university conference affiliations I can't figure, but I tend to believe Jaybate has identified the possible significance of these matters, and they likely play a far larger role than most of us have considered.

  5. None of these musings lead to any obvious conclusion for a simple mind like mine. But I will say that if these various factors, along with GOR and exit fee considerations, somehow lead to a B1G invite to KU, I would immediately jump.

  6. In the meantime, the Big 12 must recognize its battle for survival with the ACC.Sitting at 10 members is a surrender tactic. Whether or not the four superconference scenario ever plays out, a minimum 12-team conference is essential. If Florida State is at all an option, it should be exercised. I'd prefer several over Clemson as the 12th, including Ga. Tech, Louisville or Va, Tech, but getting to 12 needs to occur.

pepper_bar 5 years, 5 months ago

The grant-of-rights contract must contain a clause providing for complete dissolution of the Big 12 if a certain number of athletic programs decide to leave, and providing for liquidated damages to the programs left behind.

How many athletic programs leaving would trigger that clause? Six? Eight? Ten?

Andrew Moore 5 years, 5 months ago

The Big 12 should add 4 schools and beat the others to the name Big 14. Assuming that the ACC is crumbling, these are schools you target....

  1. Louisville - Good athletics, decent school and a bridge to West Virginia

  2. Florida State - No brainer. Go get this program!

  3. Georgia Tech - Give the east coast schools some company with this solid athletic program and excellent academic institution.

  4. Virginia Tech - Why not? If they need a home.... We need a 14th team... It's either them or Clemson

All of a sudden we have an Eastern division. I would think you'd give TCU and Iowa State to the east.

East: WVU, Louisville, FSU, TCU, ISU, GT, VaTech West: UT, KU, KSU, OU, OSU, TTU, BU

If for whatever reason we were talking about 16 teams... How about Notre Dame and BYU?

Robert Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

KU willingly had the game with UT broadcast on the LHN last year. It was a money decision. I am now angry than Uverse in Houston is carrying the network. I'm guessing the ratings suck. KU actually benefits from the Big 12 model that lets schools negotiate a deal for 3rd tier media rights. That is what the LHN is for UT even though ESPN is pushing more games to the network that do not include UT.

danmoore 5 years, 5 months ago

If those numbers are correct I don't know why Texas doesn't go independent. They make a lot more than they would as members of the Big 10.

Brad Avery 5 years, 5 months ago

Nobody despises the "Big 12" more than me. The conference is terrible for KU from a fan's perspective, but a move a'int going to happen, unfortunately. Too much money involved.

Jeff Coffman 5 years, 5 months ago

One thing for sure...if the big ten calls...KU is gone.

Didnt the big 10 pay for the exitfee of maryland.

The grant of rights is for tier 1,2 and its. always impressive what llawyers could do to negotiate the exit fees down. For instance, Ive heard that md might start at 20 instead of 50 because the change was made in the middle of the year. Negotiate a little more and they could be out for 13-17.

Remember that the big12 let tam and mu leave for about 40% of what they could have received. KU would leave for 2 years from now. And would only lose 3 years and that is if they didnt negotiate further.

All i am saying is conference realignment willl continue and the exit fees aare typically considered irrelevant.

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