Kansas defeats St. Louis, 73-59

  • 8:30 p.m., Nov. 20, 2012
  • Sprint Center, Kansas City, MO

Wednesday, November 21, 2012

Travis Releford MVP as KU upends Billikens

Kansas guard Elijah Johnson slaps hands with teammate Travis Releford after a breakaway bucket by Releford against Saint Louis in the first half of the championship game of the CBE Classic, Tuesday, Nov. 20, 2012 at the Sprint Center in Kansas City, Missouri.

Kansas guard Elijah Johnson slaps hands with teammate Travis Releford after a breakaway bucket by Releford against Saint Louis in the first half of the championship game of the CBE Classic, Tuesday, Nov. 20, 2012 at the Sprint Center in Kansas City, Missouri.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 73-59 victory over Saint Louis on Nov. 20, 2012.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Jeff Withey and Travis Releford

Jeff Withey and Travis Releford talk to reporters following the Jayhawks' 73-59 victory over Saint Louis on Nov. 20, 2012.

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Box score


— Kansas University senior Travis Releford slapped hands with teammate Naadir Tharpe, then with a huge smile on his face, trotted to Sprint Center’s center court to receive his glass MVP trophy late Tuesday night.

“I’m excited for it,” said Releford, a 6-foot-6 senior, after being named the CBE Hall of Fame Classic’s top performer after scoring 23 points — 21 the first half — in KU’s 73-59 victory over Saint Louis.

“My teammates supported me throughout the struggles before I got here. I think it means a lot for my family and the city.”

Releford, who grew up in KC and attended Roeland Park’s Bishop Miege High, entered the two-day event 0-for-11 from three and 6-of-23 overall in the Jayhawks’ first three games.

Saint Louis’ defense elected to play off him during the first half, even though he did hit six of seven shots (two of three from three) in KU’s 78-41 first-round victory over Washington State on Monday night.

Did he feel disrespected by the Billikens?

“Of course,” Releford said. “I’m a player. Any player who is defended that way should feel disrespected. They played off. My teammates and coaches continued to tell me to shoot it. That’s what I did.”

He was angry but not stunned at the lack of respect.

“Coming into this game, you look at my shooting percentage on threes ... they weren’t too good,” Releford said. “It didn’t surprise me. My teammates told me to step up and shoot the ball. I did that, and the shots fell.”

They fell early and often.

Releford, who scored 17 points in the semifinals, erupted for 21 points vs. Saint Louis as the Jayhawks led, 39-25, into the break. He hit six of 11 shots, including four of six threes as well as five of six free throws while playing all but one minute of the first half.

He scored seven of KU’s first 14 points and 17 of the first 28, with KU leading 28-10 out of the gate. Eight of Releford’s points came in a 14-0 surge that increased KU’s 14-10 lead to 28-10 at 7:31. He had two threes and a driving layup in the run.

“Travis was unbelievable the first half,” KU coach Bill Self said. Releford took just two shots the second half, making one — a spectacular dunk following a behind-the-back feed from Elijah Johnson (nine assists, two turnovers, five points).

“They made a decision not to guard him. He was unbelievable and made them pay. The second half they guarded Travis,” Self added, noting that’s why Jeff Withey was freed for 15 of his career-high-tying 25 points (attained vs. Baylor last season). “It was good for Travis to get the lid off, so to speak.”

Releford said nothing much has changed from the first couple of games, just that the ball has started to go in.

“I mean, a lot of people were in my ear. I just had to continue to play,” Releford said. “I’ve been doing it awhile. The shots are going to fall. If I continue to do what my team needs me to do on the defensive end, the offense will come.”

Withey, who along with Ben McLemore (11 points, six rebounds) made the all tournament team, had four blocked shots and four rebounds to go with 10 first-half points. He finished with seven blocks and five rebounds.

Withey had a highlight-film block of a long three-point attempt by Mike McCall Jr. just before halftime. McCall fouled Withey as he retrieved the ball. Withey hit a pair of free throws — he made 11 of 14 on the night — with 7.9 seconds remaining in the half.

“Jeff was good on both ends,” Self said.

KU’s coach grinned when a reporter asked about Withey muscling the ball into the goal.

“That’s the first time I heard the word ‘muscle’ to speak of Jeff,” Self deadpanned. “He made some good post moves.”

KU led, 39-25, at halftime and had a 57-39 lead with 10:51 to play following a Johnson three. However, Saint Louis (2-2) of the Atlantic 10 cut the gap to nine, 65-56, with 3:45 to play. Withey then converted a bucket and foul shot and dunked off a feed from Johnson, then hit one of two free throws to make it 71-56.

“That’s a good team. Saint Louis is not easy to score on,” Self said. “I’d have been very happy before the game if I had known we’d score 73.”

KU (4-1) will meet San Jose State at 8 p.m. Monday in Allen Fieldhouse.


ljmhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

that should shut up everyone dogging on releford.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago


And have a go out to the kelp beds and bring us back some halibut, too. Oh, and afterwards, head for Avalon and get a hot spring bath with someone you love, too. :-)

RJ King 8 years, 5 months ago

I don't remember a KU team with such a lack of mid level experience (sophomore and junior) players.

How the Seniors mentor/ignite the freshmen (including Ben and Jamari) will define this season. Such an opportunity for both the coaches and the players!

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Yes, Bay, I suspect this is why the team has been subject to more nonlinearity of development than normal. Normally, with experience dispersed more broadly through the grades, it is easier and faster for the oldest brother to help the next younger brother, who he knows best, and then for that to cascade down to the next younger brother, and so on, until all wade in to help the baby brother--the newest one. It involves familiarity. It is harder to help effectively someone you have no legacy relationship with. This is why societies that get balkanized into separate enclaves struggle so with spreading wealth around evenly and efficiently according to abilities, regardless of how high, or low, one may be on the value-added work chain. When we don't know our brothers and sisters and fellow citizens well, it is difficult for us to do anything constructive and effective that actually helps them. Same with a team with a bunch of seniors and a bunch of freshman.

Travis and Jeff and Elijah are well over 21 years old. Probably 22-23. The freshman are all 18-19. Add that the players tend to come from different cities and towns, and that binding cultural things like music and video grow increasingly niche marketed by region and increasingly social sub-categories, and you have on a basketball, team, as in an office, a nation of strangers meeting a nation of strangers, i.e., with decreasing numbers of shared social binders beyond homogenous retail consumer experience (i.e., same food chains, same box stores, same malls, etc.).

So: when a team has seniors and freshman, given the rate of change and balkanization in cultural binders like music and video, and given the differences in hometown cultures, a 22-23 year old Senior is like another generation to a 17-18 year old freshman.

Also, seniors at first feel the imminence of departure and sense that making additional close relationships with freshman may not be worth the investment to make in many cases. Juniors and sophomores will view the freshman more as potential long term friends.

So: the absense of sophomores and juniors in a team creates discontinuities that take longer to bridge, if they are to be bridged at all.

Bill Self has many strengths as a coach, probably many that we civilians probably do not even fully grasp. But one of his strengths that stands out is his ability to bring disparate players together into a team with all the committment and devotion to duty and to others that the word team implies. I suspect this situation has taken Self a while to work through, as it is not one he has tended to have to deal with. Most of his KU teams have had a nice broad distribution of ages and talents.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 5 months ago

"Also, seniors at first feel the imminence of departure and sense that making additional close relationships with freshman may not be worth the investment to make in many cases."

I couldn't help but notice how well Travis in particular seems to have bonded with several of the freshman including (as part of the freshman class) Traylor and BMac. If this team has any chance of making a deep run, finding a way to bring this team together may be the key to success.

Although extremely early in the season, McLemore may well be the best player on the team and hopefully the upperclassman will be willing to let him take the lead when needed.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

But the chance for a truly positive situation exists in this difficult discontinuity.

The discontinuity creates the need and opportunity for each senior to become a big brother to each of one, or two freshman, rather than leave the team to organize bottom up based solely on individual chemistries and shared interests. The seniors will tend to clique a bit, but this situation can be used to force them out of cliquing so much. This can build a very, very close team by forcing all of the seniors out of the tendency to say, I'm gone next season, I don't have to get close to all the newbies. I just have to learn to play with the best ones.

I suspect the "getting better" that has occurred recently on the team owes to the seniors starting to act more like seniors, on the one hand, but also the freshman starting to understand just how much warfare goes on out on the floor in a real game, and how nice it is to have an older brother looking out for you. This in turn makes the younger brothers seek not only to man up, but to help their older brothers be older brothers. And the seniors, which started out wanting to lord over the newbies, are starting to feel a much stronger sense of togetherness with them, and a need to look after them, and help them be the best they can be, rather than just instruct them on how things are in D1.

The psychology of team is endlessly fascinating and complex and each team truly is unique in its dynamics.

Part of Self's great genius as a basketball coach is his ability to see the dynamics that offer a path forward into team formation and to not waste a lot of time on those dynamics that lead no where. Self also is willing to take a few games to relentlessly wear down dynamics that are obstructing team formation. He has a quiver full of techniques he uses to grind away cliques, and to wear away personality differences, and to cut away seniority pissing matches. Really, Self is brilliant at basketball strategy, but he may be even more brilliant at interpersonal dynamics and related strategy.

archercc 8 years, 5 months ago

I dont think Ben and Jamari really count though. Although they didnt get to play they did spend last year playing opposite of Withey and Robinson. If getting pushed around by Robinson all year being on the practice squad doesn't prepare you for adversity I don't know what does.

David Black 8 years, 5 months ago

Nice to see Travis and Jeff lite it up. Where does ESPNU get their announcers? They spent five minutes talking about Jeff not being called for a foul when he was going after the blocked three point attempt. I would prefer to have Dave Armstrong and Chris Piper anytime and I could not get my radio in sync with the game so I could enjoy Bob Davis and Greg. I don't want Dickie V but come on where is the respect. Give us some big time people to call our games. Ben I hope to see you a second year. You are a blast to watch and I actually enjoy the whole team as they learn KU basketball. Rock Chalk!

hucking_fawks_rock 8 years, 5 months ago

Sadly, besides KU the field for the CBE tourney was pretty pathetic. The big name guys were out in Hawaii, or are going to Atlantis. CBE needs to step it up on the teams they invite. Having one home team, whether its KU, KSU, or MU, does not excite people enough about this tournament. No reason to send the top announcers to call games for the likes of Wazzu or SLU.

Armen Kurdian 8 years, 5 months ago

Well, when you get to KU's level, there just aren't that many peers. Wazzu & SLU are solid mid-level competition. KU doesn't always win these games...KU will be upset a couple of times this year, as will everyone. Anyway, for what it's worth, fans don't want to see the 'Hawks lose in KC.

Sam Constance 8 years, 5 months ago

The announcers were flat-out terrible. Some of the more brain-bludgeoning things I remember them saying (paraphrasing)...

"KU goes as Travis Releford goes"

"These two teams don't like each other--a lot of cheap shots going on down in the paint. Nothing dirty, just cheap shots"

"KU bigs don't succeed in the NBA because they get the ball so close to the basket and don't have any post moves" (because, you know, getting position near the basket has nothing to do with post moves)

Or my favorite, the dissertation on officiating in the first half, when no controversial call had even occurred. I don't know if they just didn't have enough to talk about, but I'm accustomed to announcers not really talking about officiating... UNLESS there is some pivotal, bad call, or a series of pretty awful calls in a row. Last night, they launched into this five minute debate about how the officiating would impact the outcome of this game. My wife and I sat there mocking them, and basically saying to each other--if it's good officiating, it won't have a damn thing to do with the final outcome. The end.

All that being said... I can't stand Dave Armstrong either. He's at least more familiar with the Big 12 and KU (for example, I don't think he'd ever make the suggestion that our team ebbs and flows with Releford), but he still is mind-numbing to listen to.

Darrel Stice 8 years, 5 months ago

Don't forget about how they called KY out for "flopping", saying these players shouldn't be able to get away with it, then praising Ellis for his great footwork and timing for being able to take so many charges.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 5 months ago

The entire discussion of 'flopping' was ridiculous. I agree completely.

Jack Jones 8 years, 5 months ago

I certainly agree with your evaluation of the announcers. Another classic for the list - less than 3 min. in, "I think McLemore is the best #2 guard in the country." Really? I'll admit he is pretty good - but maybe a little early to anoint Ben with that title. Off, subject - has anyone else taken a look at the Tulsa University BB site? They have a feature that shows a (almost) real time animation of the game w/ player's names and pictures+ a description and animation of who took the shot, from actual spot on the floor , and if missed, who got the rebound. For those of us out of range of TV and radio (Prescott, AZ) it would be a godsend.

kellerman411 8 years, 5 months ago

I don't make it a habit to make suggestions to a guy like Bill Self but I do wish he would layoff of Tharpe a little. I know he is still making some mistakes but the guy is getting better, he's coming along. During one of the timeouts last night when Self was screaming at him he kind of got that deer in the headlights look for just a moment and that scares me. It was the same look he had last year. His confidence is there but it is still very fragile at this point. He is kind of a sensitive kid who I don't think responds the way a lot of other players do when coach yells at them. We NEED him this year to come in and hit shots. Rio is not ready.

farnamjayhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

You're right on one thing Kellerman.... Don't make it a habit to make suggestions to Coach Self

Jack Wilson 8 years, 5 months ago

kellerman -- I get your suggestion, and disagree with farnamjayhawk's implication that you not express it (Self is God stuff). I will say this, though -- how far has Tharpe come? Personally, I think Self has done an amazing job with Tharpe. From a guy literally whizzing down his leg to a solid, reliable ball handler. The classic, break him down to rebuild him. Public comments last weekend about perhaps having to go in a different direction -- and Tharpe responded. It may not be how you like it -- the sreaming -- but I sense it's going in the right direction.

Ron Prichard 8 years, 5 months ago

I think you are right on the money, HEM. Tharp is getting better and you can see his confidence growing. I will say that I agree with kellerman on one thing: Rio is not ready. We went to the game last night and I made it a point to watch Rio specifically when he was in. He was agressive defensively when his man had the ball, but he continually relaxed when he was off ball to the point that he would get out of position and then get burned. I specifically remember a two possession sequence where he reached in and fouled on the first possession and and on the second he failed to fight through or over a screen set by Withey's man and his guy hit a three. Self immediately turned to the bench and called for Tharpe. As soon as there was a dead ball, Self just lit up Rio. I would love to see White get a chance at some meaningful minutes and maybe step into that spot Self is trying to get Rio to fill, but I don't know if his defense or energy in practice or something else is holding him back. I was disappointed we didn't see him play last night.

KEITHMILES05 8 years, 5 months ago

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh, Tharpe and AW3 do NOT play the same position. Good grief.

Ron Prichard 8 years, 5 months ago

I never said they did. My point is that Self wants 10-15 minutes from another guard or wing and is trying to have Rio fill that role. If he can't get it done, i would like to see White get a shot at it. Not filling the exact same position, but it would be the same role off the bench giving some relief minutes.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 5 months ago

keith -- you're right on positioning, but many times when Adams is in, he's at the 2 and McLemore slides to the 3. Adams has got very little time at the 1. If you put White in, instead of Adams, White just plays the 3. A little difficult with Releford on the floor .. and that may be your point. But it seems to me that Releford could be the 2 for stretches. I agree with raprichard ... I'd like to see more AW3. He brings a specific skill ... shooting. Don't see that from Adams yet. And rotation-wise, it works.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 5 months ago

rap -- Good points on Adams pointing out the reach in foul, then the screen issue out top that led to the 3. Perfect "teaching" sequence for Self. Much like Tharpe, it is all part of the learning process. Rio has great defensive instincts, and he appears to take pride in that part of the game.

Ron Prichard 8 years, 5 months ago

I hope Rio takes pride in his defense, because that is the only way he will get on the court. In the two minutes he was in last night, he sure didn't impress his coach very much. It's almost funny how right after being called out by Self, Tharpe responds with two solid--although not extraordinary--games. At the same time, Rio seems to be back sliding. The way this rotation is playing out, I hope White and Rio are able to both keep a positive attitude. I think White could add so much to our offensive capabilities that I would hate to see him get discouraged at his lack of playing time and possibly consider transferring. Imagine both he and Frankamp on the wings next year. Scary.

David Brown 8 years, 5 months ago

Tharpe used this tournament to cement his place in the rotation. Agree with points above, except the "deer-in-the-headlights". To stay with the animal analogy, I feel like Self shouting at him was more like "water-off-a-ducks-back". The continuous good cop/bad cop relationship between player and coach is interesting to observe, and it develops and grows thru the season. I think these two games at the Sprint Center did Naadir a world of good.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 5 months ago

Not disagreeing Trojan but I wouldn't base too much on Adam's play in the first half of the fifth game of the season. I do agree that Tharpe's place in the rotation is most likely secure.

I remember Tharpe getting yanked fairly quickly in his first appearances last year.

NoteToSelf 8 years, 5 months ago

Agreed on the announcers. Ironically they didn't say that KU had a three on none fast break for a dunk if they didn't call a foul on the Biliken. It should have been a no call. When was the last time KU had the same number of blocks as they did turnovers? I'm not sure it has ever happened. This team has improved immensively since the first game now that HCBS has settled on an 8 man rotation. I would like to see AW III get some shots though.

Stan Unruh 8 years, 5 months ago

We never listen to the yackers on TV. We always tune in Bob Davis. I know sinking the audio is a challenge but the guys on radio tell you what you want to know.

KEITHMILES05 8 years, 5 months ago

Well, if you are actually "sinking" the audio no wonder you can't hear. How about SYNCING the audio?

REHawk 8 years, 5 months ago

HA! When Dicky V comes to town, I absolutely SINK it!

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago


You, least among all aliases, should be throwing grammar stones at glass houses. Stay substantive wouldja? (and, yes, I threw the 'wouldja' in there intentionally).

If journalism were history in a hurry (and it is), then posting is history in an eye blink. Bad spelling betraying ignorance is one thing. But a boo boo here and a typo there is just a sign of someone working on the fly with a full plate and a busy day.

clevelandjayhawker 8 years, 5 months ago

The GOOD: Mr. Withey is playing like we thought he should (hopefully it’s a trend), making some open threes, playing more physical, Thrape knowing when to slow the ball down

The BAD: EJ just doesn’t have it- is it from the offseason surgery or adjusting to his new role? Love the 9 dimes he had, but just doesn’t seem himself or what we were use to last March. As the announcer stated last night KU post players don’t do as well in the NBA because they get such great position and don’t have great 1 on 1 moves in their arsenal.

The UGLY: If Travis loses his lucky wristbands he will play like he did the first 3 games. Big props to his mom for finding them in Travis’ sock drawer at his parent’s house and then for her taking them to him at the Sprint center, he just wasn’t the same player without them.

KEITHMILES05 8 years, 5 months ago

Not to be a downer but this is only two games TR has performed. He needs to be at least 10 pt. per game and stellar defense, which he already does. He has the talent but isn't using it properly.

RawkChalk 8 years, 5 months ago

I think that is pretty ignorant. All he NEEDS to do is play lock down defense, hit open shots when they are there, and continue to be aggressive in transition. Where are you a coach again?

clevelandjayhawker 8 years, 5 months ago

He has performed in 100% of the games he wore wristbands.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Keetie, Keetie, Keetie,

Trav started an entire season for a team that won 30 games and played in the national final. Travis is by definitiion a rock of ages on this team.

You worry so about the most unecessary things and pay almost no attention to the things worth worrying about.

You were probably a worrier about Brady Morningstar, when he went through the mother of all slumps, only to come out of it and play like gang busters as usual and help lead the team to 30 wins. Hmmm, did Brady ever play in the rotation on a bad KU team? a team that did not at least win a conference title? Answer: no.

Travis is a fully seasoned stud who is going to struggle with shooting as all players do. The only kind of player that will give Trav any trouble this season, assuming Trav is healthy, is another Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, who was, shall we say, a rather extraordinary talent.

Quit even worrying a little about Trav and get on with the business of trying to understand how Self is going to muddle through with three guys at the four and Naadir as number one back up. And as you think abou this, remember that Self more than likely will find a way.

Don't worry, be happy, Keetie, especially when there is much to be thankful for about this team.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

What I think is happening is this: he is playing his way back into shape, and each game his knee takes longer before it starts stiffening up. But I still see the knee stiffening and I still saw an unwillingness to go to iron against the Billikens.

But I am encouraged that he is on a healing trajectory that could lead to him playing very near full effectiveness by January...barring rein jury.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 5 months ago

I'd say that as KU fan, if I'm not a seaon ticket holder, going to say 4-5 games a year, I would spend all my money going to Allen Fieldhouse (vs. the Sprint center).

Now that I answered that question, someone owes me a million dollars.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Seriously, it may go to even more issues than the valid one you mentioned, also.

KC has never been able to support an NBA franchise and its had its chances. Its lost one major league baseball franchise and hockey faltered there also. The Royals, in strictly financial terms, are vulnerable in KC, too.

Next, I grew up in KC and its a family town where family comes first. And while it is prosperous, it is not broadly flush. Family takes precedence on discretionary spending and games have just gotten too expensive for the middle class families being forced into choices, to choose.

Next, Missouri's departure from the Big 12 is going to hurt the ability for the Big 12, or any team in the Big 12, to be a draw in KC. How much is hard to say, but it is going to hurt some.

Next, the CBE tournament is very ineffectively branded and promoted. I care and I still don't really get a strong sense of it. And the sponsor's name is flat out boring and meaningless to me, so it ought to be massively marginalized from the promotion process, or else, the sponsor needs to get a new PR firm and figure out how to put some sizzle into the sponsorship that spills over onto the tournament. Tournaments like this have to be ABOUT something for them to matter to fans. The Maui tourney is about our players fulfilling our Hawaii fantasies. The aircraft carrier game is about our team fulfilling our patriotic fantasies. A tourney in NYC is about fulfilling our Big Apple fantasies. A tournament in KC has to attach itself to a promotional concept that fulfills American's viewers and local ticket buyers' vicarious fantasies.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Its not impossible to do in KC, it just takes some thought and work. KC has made the mistake IMHO of trying to change its image from a fun loving cow town into a civilized but imageless mid sized media market town. Tournament managers have to pick out some angle with some sizzle and sell it. Otherwise, the tournament will fail. It should be the Naismith Tournament. But if that's not possible, then the promoters have to get more crass and look to things that KC is known and loved for and build it around that. The obvious angle is barbecue. And I can't believe the promoters have been so stupid as not to hitch the team to barbecue. Having lived away from home the past 30 years, I can say that most that visit KC enjoy the people there, and the light hearted social life there in the bars and restaurants. But the two things KC is most identified with are 12th Street and Vine, from the song Kansas City, and KC barbecue. I can't believe that these tournament promoters can't connect the dots on these items and build around them. KC Jazz is history. The stock yards and cow town angle are gone. The red light hotels and the swanky speak easy days are gone. But that song and the barbecue, continue. It should be called something like the KC Ball'nBarbecue Tournament, or the KC Bones'n Ball Tournament. Or my fav, the KC Dunk'n Bones Tournament. Saucy and spicy basketball and saucy and spicy barbecue--they are fan--tastic. Nothing goes better together than ball and bones. All the PR imagery should link basketball and barbecue together. CBE Classic is just living death to see in print. Tie the tournment to something that tastes good. Make big deal about serving barbecue at the tournament. Set up huge cookers the TV guys can show. Let the fans eat it in the stands, so the TV guys can show it. Sell bibs with the teams names on it in the tourney. Poor African American business men like Arthur Bryant figured out long ago that even amidst horrendous segregation, if you cook it, they will come! For gosh sakes, KC, wake up and use the connection!!!!! Before its too late.

Stan Unruh 8 years, 5 months ago

Good stuff Bate. Not difficult to figure out.. sync it all together in KC.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 5 months ago

I was watching the games in the new facilities in Brooklyn and the seats there were equally empty and they had a strong lineup. I think a lot of it has to do with it being in the same week as Thanksgiving.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Good point. Question: why are certain sporting events on thanksgiving day heavily attended, but others are not. The Green Bay Detroit NFL football game is always a sell out. Didn't Oklahoma and Nebraska used top play on Turkey day, too? Maybe need to move the tourney to Turkey day?

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 4 months ago

Turkey day is already known more for being the day before Black Friday then for its original meaning. I'm sure most native Americans don't celebrate Thanksgiving day anyways.

I think Detroit and Dallas do so well as it has become a Thanksgiving day tradition in these two cities. Just a guess on my part.

Do not recall Oklahoma v Nebraska but do recall a college game also.

RockChalk26 8 years, 5 months ago

Sorry, but scheduling the St. Louis Billikens and Washington State Cougars aren't going to put butts in the seats.

Also, how was the marketing campaign for the tournament?

hucking_fawks_rock 8 years, 5 months ago

Between the CBE Classic not being included in season ticket packages, the $70 lower level price tag, the poor tournament field, and the fact that KU plays 3 games in 2 weeks at the Sprint Center, I don't think people were really up for it.

Last night was better than Monday, but at $70/ticket to see SLU or Wazzu during a holiday week, people have better/other things to do with their time and money.

UncleMiltyN 8 years, 5 months ago

Thanksgiving week, 9pm and 8:30pm starts, no decent early games to come in early for, lesser known tourney, etc.

I also don't know how the money works with these events. Maybe it doesn't pay well? Maybe other big teams wanted more guaranteed money to show up?

KEITHMILES05 8 years, 5 months ago

KU did not include these games in the package.Why the hell do they think ticket holders should buy on their own? KUAC, as all college venues are nothing but money hungry and it only gets worse and not better.

lv_jhwk 8 years, 5 months ago

So much wrong in this comment.

In simplest terms, these games aren't included in KU ticket packages because the ticket money doesn't go to KU specifically. It's no different than Maui or NYC or the Bahamas... these are early season tournaments run by corporate groups rather than the individual schools.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 5 months ago

Some post game observations -

-Kevin Young: My impression now is that KY is a big deal for this team. It's a subjective, much debated word .. but it is a word that anyone involved in sports cannot deny .. Chemistry. His presence on the court brings something. He passes very well in the post, finds Withey. He hustles. He boards. He is active on D (much better than say this time last season .. big difference). I was banging the drum for Ellis over Traylor. Not so much over KY. I really like KY starting right now, with Ellis getting major minutes off the bench (many predicted that during the summer). That may change. Ellis may end up starting. I really don't like the phrase "glue guy." It implies that he holds things together. KY isn't that. He creates action. All from a guy that didn't take a shot in 27 minutes. And no, I'm not mesmerized by the 'fro .. well, ok, kinda.

-Young Team: I don't want to hear it ever again. Self we'll say "oh, we're so young." It's like a reflex. When you start 4 seniors, you ain't young. I love the idea of starting 4 seniors. It's like we saw the foundation of this team form the last two days.

-Releford: During the game, I posted that the game analyst was a "clown" for saying that Releford was just taking what he was given, scoring 21 in the first half. I take that back .. not the "clown" part .. but the reason for calling him a clown. We can walk away from last night very encouraged by Releford. But should we be? From the article above, SLU wasn't guarding him the first half, slacking way off of him. I didn't notice it that blatantly live. Rewatching it, it was obvious. So when they guarded Releford, he took two shots in the second half. I guess I expect too much. You can drive to the hoop when you're being guarded; you can create when you're being guarded. That just might be the the disconnect I have here -- I think Releford has so much more in him than he allows to come through on the offensive end. Regardless, we need the guy to score. Don't take only what is given, take what you want to take .. and you can do that while still being under control and a team player. But you have to be encouraged by Releford executing and taking what was give .. this team needs scoring, and needs more.

-How to Guard KU: Double Withey when he gets the ball on the block with the closest defender who is not guarding 1) McLemore or 2) the 4. Force Withey to kick to Releford or say EJ .. make Releford and/or EJ beat you. If you don't have someone to match Withey, how can you not do this? Withey can score, he will score, but not against a double team. SLU made it too easy for Withey last night. As teams double, if they use perimeter defenders (which makes the most since so Withey can't dump it easily to the 4), those perimeter players have to cut to the hoop. We had this discussion last season. Not just hang out on the perimeter.


Michael Bratisax 8 years, 4 months ago

Although now starting, I originally thought KY in the same way I remember Steve Woodberry.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 5 months ago


Clown: Our game analyst was a clown, play by play guy was not quite that bad. Multiple examples, but here's the best one -- when referring to McLemore, he commented that McLemore's "lower body strength was underrated." I sat there and pondered -- where might I find that rating? Who rates that sort of stuff? And who is bagging on McLemore's lower body strength? And as some posted on the live chat, how did Withey flame out at Arizona .. he transferred as a freshman (at semester) based on a coaching change. The guy also go into some rant on "flopping" in response to KY drawing a questionable charge, which wasn't a flop. The question was whether he got there in time.

-Tharpe: 22 minutes, no turnovers, another night of effort on defense -- the effort that coach Self had demanded. Tharpe's an easy guy that we can want to be replaced. He's small, challenged defensively, doesn't bring any signficant, objective skill. But he is handling the ball nearly flawlessly. He got caught in some pressure a couple of times vs. Chattanooga, but other than that, dead solid. Now, 1-5 shooting isn't good. Quick suggestion - elevate vertically, don't fall away. I see that as a pretty obvious issue on his jumpers. But I'm betting his shooting percentage will improve. Hopefully he can keep improving.

-Adams: It was easy for a lot of us to crown Adams as the savior. Tharpe wasn't looking great. Adams looked like an animal on defense. But who looks better now? HawkKlaw pointed out that Adams really only looked terrific on D vs. Emporia St. At that time, an astute poster (can't recall who) pointed out that Adams was really playing a lot with his hands on the offensive player, and would get called for it. I get that Adams is better defensively than Tharpe -- and Adams is very good defensively -- but right now, he's not near the player that Tharpe is.

-Traylor/Ellis: Traylor gets 12 minutes and Ellis just 9? Ellis is a better rebounder, and a better scorer. He played fine defensively. If KY is getting 27 minutes and not scoring, then big doses of Ellis down low will be needed against better teams. I love KY's contributions and Self played it right last night. But when teams double Withey. Decide to take him away down low. Who will score in the post consistently? We got the 30-32 post points (that is the goal) last night, with 25 from Withey. When Withey gets held to 8 or 10 points, where do we turn? Post scoring is a concern with this roster. KY will chip in points, but there is only one real post-scoring answer on our roster -- Ellis. I trust that it is coming.

REHawk 8 years, 5 months ago

HEM, as I recall, Ellis was a bit sick in the semi-final game. Might explain his 9 minutes last night. I am ready to back off on my call for Rio minutes. Tharpe progressed nicely in this tournament. Game experience seems to be helping him advance (e.g. learning experience from traps, questionable pass to Withey for a fruitless slash, etc.). I feel much more confident about Naadir than previously, especially his control of turnovers.

clevelandjayhawker 8 years, 5 months ago

clown: hahaha yeah that "flop" analysis was pretty bogus, and comparing us to duke with it was uncalled for.

Adams- I feel its too early to tell what we have with him this year, and we may not even know till next year. Every year Self has a guy in "the doghouse", last year it was Tharpe, in the past it has been RRob, Mario, etc. Self breaks them down that freshmen year so he can build them up and make them stronger. Every year it happens, this year it is Adam's turn/maybe even Perry. How to spot it- player is yanked from the game after one turnover or mistake, given a verbal lashing and not returned to the game for some time if at all, the "quick hook" if you will. Those that put up with it and dont transfer or give up, but instead work harder end up better players; normally resulting in huge jumps in performance by the time they are upperclassmen.

yates33333 8 years, 5 months ago

KU has certainly played better with Young in the starting lineup. He seems to take pressure off of Withey and Travis. I am biased because I really enjoy watching him moving all the time and trying to get open, steal the ball, go the hoop, etc.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago


Your summary of what you like about Kevin is exactly why Self is playing him so much. He is more active than Perry. And more skilled than Jamari. In both cases for right now. They might catch him this season. But the main thing is that unless one of them improves nonlinearly this season, the committee of three approach is really sound. Each guy gives the opposing coach something different to prepare for. I really hope all three keep sharing the 4 spot.

AsadZ 8 years, 5 months ago

If you do not worry about scoring, scoring will come to you naturally. Bill Self

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Eddie Sutton's guys always played it anyway they want it, ralster. If you can find any footage of Sutton's old Arkansas team with Moncrief, Delph, etc., you will see a nearly complete prototype of what Self does. The only time I recall Eddie's teams playing it any slower than KU has tended to play was during the Big Country Reeves stretch. And that took Eddie to a Final Four, if I recall correctly.

If anything, Self may have slowed Eddie ball down, because Sutton never used to take it into a slug fest. Maybe he didn't have to though.

Reuben_J_Cogburn 8 years, 5 months ago

This is the sign we've been waiting for. Releford and Withey, seniors, taking charge of a game against a scrappy lesser opponent.

If only EJ would get his head right, we'll be looking good. And as for Young, I'm impressed that he seems to understand his role and not do too much. He's more of a glue guy/defender than he is scoring threat.

Senior leadership is what this team needs, but I'm telling you, I've never seen so much talent from younger guys. Mclemore, Traylor, and Ellis will be phenomenal. I understand the excitement of Mclemore and Traylor; obviously talented, but the thing I'm most excited about is Perry Ellis as a sophomore next year. The biggest leap is from frosh to sophomore, and Ellis has the makings of a KU great.

He's a little skiddish right now...and not nearly as aggressive as he should be. But once he unloads that, he'll be one of the guys we're talking about for years to come.

BCRavenJHawkfan 8 years, 5 months ago

Way to go Travis.

Did any body see the story about the D III player that scored 138 points in one game?

REHawk 8 years, 5 months ago

If only we could have borrowed that kid for our final five minutes vs. Ratso + Co.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 5 months ago

And now it's time for "PREDICTIONS "R" US".

1] KU will be 11-2 going into conference play in January with other loss at OSU.

2] KU could play Texas four on five and Barnes would still find a way to lose.

3] Dickie V will genuflect each morning in front of his photo of Coach Ratface.

4] Coach Williams will cry before New Years Eve.

5] Calimari will cheat...oh wait, he's cheating right now!!

6] KU's biggest challenge in the Big 12 this year will be......."crickets"......!!"

7] Lucas will redshirt, Peters will not play till at least Valentine's Day-if at all, Rio will likely transfer and the world will NOT end on December 21st, 2012....the IRS won't allow it.

8] it will always be better to be a Jayhawk on our worst day than be any other school alum on their best!!

9] And, finally, for all you brother and sister Jayhawks out there, Happy Thanksgiving. If nothing else, we can all be eternally grateful we are not Tiggers!!

Tony Bandle 8 years, 5 months ago

PS..Rio..hang in there..I think it can work :)

Reuben_J_Cogburn 8 years, 5 months ago

Edit to #7

"the world will NOT end on December 21st, 2012...because K-State will not be playing for the BCS National Championship."

Happy Thanksgiving, sir. And as always...good work.

mikehawk 8 years, 5 months ago

Travis won't stay this hot for long, at least that isn't his MO. If he did, look out. More than likely he will go back to his super solid floor play and stopper defense as he does the needed dirty work every team has to have. Really interesting the team seems to have a pattern of playing with less pressure on the road and may try too hard with pressure at home. I thought that was the case last year, but need to watch more carefully over time this year. Not a bad problem as long as you find a way to win at home and play more relaxed with the mental intensity needed on the road. My prediction...Kevin Young continues to start into the New Year. I think HCBS has settled in on his substitution pattern for games we have a lead, with a slightly shorter bench when things are tight.

Reuben_J_Cogburn 8 years, 5 months ago

I agree with the "home pressure" comment. But it's encouraging to see them play well on the road; even with the loss to Michigan State.

And yes...the Sprint Center is a road game for KU. I understand that the fans are very KU heavy there, but historically, we play awful in that building. And when we win there...we win ugly.

Kudos to this young team for playing outstanding basketball in the Sprint Center two nights in a row.

flyingfinn 8 years, 5 months ago

Good for Travis but I am really excited about Withey's play....this is the type of play we need from the big man every night, not necessarily point total but his aggresiveness.

Reuben_J_Cogburn 8 years, 5 months ago

I did; They made the comment implying that in Kansas City, the refs give KU a 10-point cushion.

They complained about the play on the ball when Withey blocked the three at the top of the key, and then was undercut by a point guard going after the ball. They called the foul on the St. Louis player...a reasonable call when a 7-footer gets undercut...and the announcers were whining about it..

Same with another call when the St. Louis player clearly was over-the-back.

It was a little ridiculous.

Steve Gantz 8 years, 5 months ago

Been traveling over the holidays so I didn't get to watch the game, but I noticed in the box score Ellis got only 9 minutes. Is that a sign to come? Is he proving to be a work in progress instead of a potential one or two year player? I'd be interested to know why he played only 9 minutes last night.

yates33333 8 years, 5 months ago

Considering everything that happened previously I would have done the same thing the St. Louis coach did. I'd have laid off of Travis to cover Withey better. I am glad Travis got hot, and hope he stays hot. Of course, he won't stay that hot. I am happy for him that he did this in KC. Hopefully, KU is starting to gel as a team. They certainly seemed to in the last two games. I really don't think the Sjprint Center is that kind to KU, but that seemed to be the case in these two games. I think the court in Boulder, Colorado is kinder.

Scott Smetana 8 years, 5 months ago

Way too early I know, but just for fun... what's our starting 5 next year? I'm guessing BMac is staying 1 more year at this point. Ellis staying for sure.

  1. Frankamp / Tharpe
  2. Green / White III
  3. Bmac
  4. Ellis / Traylor
  5. Embrid?

clevelandjayhawker 8 years, 5 months ago

why does everyone forget about Selden?

BMac is gonzo

And I think the Green/AW III line will be at the 3 spot.

HawkKlaw 8 years, 5 months ago

My guess:

  1. Naadir / Rio

  2. Selden / Frankamp

  3. AW3 / Greene

  4. Ellis / Traylor / Peters

  5. Embiid / Lucas (assuming Lucas doesn't transfer)

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 5 months ago

Travis Releford MVP as KU upends Billikens

Sometimes words confuse me - is UPEND the same as UPSET?

JJHAWK 8 years, 5 months ago

With tongue firmly in cheek I wish to define the difference:

Upend is what you do to your neighbors trashcan. . Upset is how you feel when he does it to your trash can.

Yeah I know - trashy definition!!

Jack Wilson 8 years, 5 months ago

Excellent rundown of the recruiting scenarios.

So, we want Gordon to UK; Johnson or Randle to Florida, leaving us to compete for the remaining player. Maybe longshots, but they're shots nonetheless.

If I had to bet .. I'd bet that 1) Peters gets through this, and stays. 2) BMac stays, 3) Adams transfers, 4) We get none of the top guys left, 5) We add a low level, Doyle-esque player that is a body in Adams place, or give it to Wesley, 6) Lucas stays. Again, if I had to bet today.











Lucas really has to make that transfer decision by the end of the semester, or he blows two full seasons, vs. being eligible at the break in 2013. The clock is ticking.

If he knows Peters will be back, Traylor being there, and seeing a high-end talent, pure center type in Embiid, and seeing Ellis as nearly a lock starter, and knowing we're pursuing top big guys each year .. wow. The kid's head must be spinning.

If Lucas stays, 1) He knows one the variables I mentioned to be clearly incorrect (The only debatable one now is Peters staying, right?), or 2) he is supremely confident in his ability, and that he will develop, or 3) he is not confident in his ability but is being influenced by a third party (parent, coach, advisor, etc.), or 4) just hasn't thought it through.

Am I looking at this correctly?

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

"Understanding Self's Use of 'Directed Energy' at Players or All Good Things Take Time, Especially Transmogrification"

Part 1

Bill Self tore Naadir Tharpe a new one last night.

Board rats are feeling a little protective of Naadir Tharpe this morning.

Bill Self began, not just pulling Perry Ellis, but one could not help noticing the look of freshly mown ass on Perry Ellis last night either. It looked hurtful, and I suspect Perry Ellis did hurt some.

Some think Self unleashed to much anger, too much fury, at some of these younger players.

I dissent, even though I am among the peace loving pacifists that prefer reasoned discussion to verbal attack, whenever context enables.

Having watched Self for a decade now, and having been coached myself, and having had a father trained by the Marine Corp in "leading" men, I suspect there maybe under-appreciation of Self's calculatedness.

Self apparently believes that playing with "energy" is critical to a player's effectiveness.

Self also apparently thinks emotion is an ingredient in the recipe of energy.

Self apparently thinks that at certain point in a players development it is helpful for the player to have an experience with intense "energy" in order to model it.

There is much more going on here than just Self having a cold and deciding to go off on Naadir and Perry.

Self is very calculated in his emoting.

Before going further, I want to interject here that this level of emoting Self does sometimes is not to be tried at home with sons and daughters and spouses without professional supervision either. Self is a professional basketball coach. He has worked at his trade for a couple decades. He has clearly learned to manage his emotions. He has probably made few mistakes he deeply regrets. He appears also to have learned from Bob Knight that there are levels beyond which it is not okay to go, even when acting with calculation and control, i.e., the ends do not justify the means being carried beyond a certain point. End of digression.

Now to Self.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Part 2

Early on, Self has coached the new-to-playing and the freshmen exactly as he should have. He is protective of those psyches he does not absolutely have to throw into harm s way this season: Rio and AW3.

Among those he has to throw into harms way, he has put Ben and Jamari and Tharpe in roles narrowly defined enough that each has a fighting chance of succeeding.

Make no mistake: Ben is not yet being asked to shoulder the kind of unlimited burden at both ends for guarding his position and helping others that Self is asking of EJ, Trav and Jeff.

And Tharpe and Jamari, regardless of how much one doubts Tharpe's defense, or Jamari's productivity per minute, are laboring along barely passably in their rather tightly circumscribed roles.

And through the Self Ball equivalent of "Mr. Rogers Takes the Kids to Gay Purree," and two exhibitions of patiently watched stinky play, and through three games of decent, but not extremely talented D1 pre-conference action, outside of some quick hooks to save Naadir and Jamari and Perry from themselves and the team, Self has been the quintessential Ward Cleaver/Heathcliff Huxtable (sorry I can't find contempo analogies because portraying middle class fathers as cheating, snivelling buffoons is en vogue now) of college basketball coaches.

Until last night against St. Louis, Self has basically been sitting in slippers and a cardigan singing, "Its a beautiful day in the neighborhood..." to his young players, while they got used to blue meanies in D1 being willing to do them bodily harm at high speeds heretofore unexperienced by the newbies.

In short, Self has been letting the newbies' confusions from Self speeding them up in practice, and from opposing coaches trying to do a little pre-conference mind mating with them, until he brought out the emotional scalpels to begin cutting away the psychic baby fat from cerebral cortex that the newbs showed up with after their sheltered lives in interscholastic high school basketball.

But I think we can all agree that sooner, or later, and the sooner the better, all of these young men need to go see the surgeon for at least a short while to get a trim to get them ready for when highly paid, grown men in suits called opposing coaches, get to sit and watch study hours and hours of unartfully edited mash-ups of game play by these newbies in order to figure out how to rough them up, scare them, destabilize their psyches and otherwise force them out of their comfort zones.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Part 3

Let's be present here. Self is at a stage of the season, when he has to turn into Drill Instructor Sergeant Minderfuchs, so as to expose the news to some live rounds aimed carefully by the Sergeanbt just over their heads, or these green grunts are going to experience XTReme Pant Filling, when they come up against some opposing thug ballers that really do want to put a hurt on them. Ratso Izzo actually took it easy on KU, not because he's gotten any less nasty, but for the self serving reason that KU was actually a little more experienced than his team was. If Ratso weren't starting that sapling of a Point Guard that Travis, or EJ, could have hurt, he would have had his guys out kicking Naadir and Perry and Jamari in the balls just to hear them scream.

But there are more Ratsos ahead on the schedule and some of them are going to have more experienced teams that allow them to act badly.

Self did not really lose his temper at Naadir, or Perry, last night. If Self were ever to truly lose his temper with this team it would be curtains. More than ever, he has to be surgical in his emoting.

Self gave them a dose of "directed energy."

Why now?

Because Naadir is finally far enough along to hear some painful truth. Up till now, he has been working through the unpainful truths of what his strengths are and how he needs to play to them in the limited way that Self knows he can do, if he focuses.

But now Naadir must hear the hurtful truth. If we were flies on the wall, it might sound something like this:

"My wife is more explosive than you are, Naadir. You're walking around thinking, a-ha! I've learned to play my narrowly defined role just well enough to keep coach off my back. I can help the team now and not get run for a new recruit. Next season, if I keep getting better I will be the driver of this car. Life is good and my girl friend is really sweet and I'm on path toward my goal of becoming a great coach one day." (pause for Self to laugh snidely) Well, I've got news for you, Naadir, I've taken every last mistake from you I'm going to take, and I've watched you sit back and not explode and make plays outside your position for as long as I'm going to. Either you become as perfectly polished as the President's favorite spoon, and as explosive as fuel-air bomb, or I will find someone who will be and the name Tharpe won't be on any Kansas jersey. Now get out of my face."

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Part 4

This directed energy will take young Tharp to the next level of expected level of performance.

It will be taking him to the level of "both."

"Both" hurts...until you are used to it.

Both hurts some even after you are used to it.

Both is a very deep philosophical and spiritual and existential place for human beings.

We will both live and die.

We will be both happy and sad.

We will be both successful and unsuccessful.

We will both love and hate.

We will be both love and hate.

We will both win and lose.

We will be both individuals and part of teams.

We will both be masculine and feminine inside ourselves.

We will both love certain kinds of foods and limit our consumptions of those to keep from killing ourselves, like Rick Majerus has done.

We will both engage in wars to win them and engage in wars to create stalemates.

We will both work and play.

We will both laugh and cry.

We will both experience pleasure and pain.

We will both get better and get worse.

That last one is the scariest one of all.

Everyone likes getting better.

But everyone is really afraid of getting worse.


Because it makes them fear all their getting better was for naught. It makes them fear their faith in getting better. In moving toward a goal and attaining it.

Self is building into Naadir, and Perry, a realization that life is both getting better and getting worse.

Self is teaching Naadir, and Perry, a lesson both for this season, and for life: things get better when you work at it, and then they get harder, when you take the next step up. Get flipping used to it, you guys!!!! :-)

Why is Self teaching Naadir and Perry this lesson, but say, not Rio and AW3? Are Rio and AW3 just no good and going to be run?

Answer: of course not...well, probably not. Self doesn't absolutely need them this season, and he doesn't want to throw them into toughening, if he doesn't absolutely need them.

Getting toughened before you're ready, i.e., growing too fast, is one of the worst things that can happen to a person's emotional well being. Even when one survives it, one is left with unsightly scars and some dysfunction.

Naadir is developmentally ready for some directed energy from Self. And so he is getting it. That Self is dishing it out to Naadir means nothing more than Self thinks Naadir is ready to take the next step. And its a big step learning to do both. To play your position, and to explode beyond it, while protecting, defending, helping, and doing the distributing, the last of which Naadir was born to do. Whenever I see Naadir with the ball coming toward the top of the key, I feel certain that as he emerged from his mother's womb, he immediately grabbed the umbilical and put it in position for the doctor to cut.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Part 5

Perry's plight is, frankly, the much more harrowing situation to experience vicariously, when comparing Naadir's and Perry's play.

Perry is a freshman that has to score some at the 4 for the team to have a good season.

Therefore, Perry has no choice but to undergo rapid "development," as a basketball player, at least from Bill Self's POV. :-)

Hence, Perry doesn't get to wait until his sophomore season, which might be ideal for most players, despite their wish to start and be relied upon immediately in the age of instant gratification. (Note: there was a reason freshman were ineligible for varsity play once upon a time and the reason was at least partially a humane one. Too much expectation and too much rapid development too soon is hard on a human being, but I digress.)

Perry is going through something kind of like one of those scifi movie fx's, where an embryo rapidly develops into a mature alien organism intended to scare the bezeezus out of us. It is painful to watch. The effect of forced development is torquing him this way and that. The embryo transforms inside a force field that pulls and stretches him and distorts him and causes him to grimace and howl and struggle, before emerging into something alien to himself and to us and overpowering.

Self probably dearly wishes he had someone for Perry to truly play behind, the way he could play Thomas behind Marcus and Kieff, not because he has any real doubt that Perry can transmogrify, but because no human being likes to see another human being forced to go through sudden transmogrification. Transmogrification into both hurts.

Simple linear transformation form A to B is nothing in comparison to organic transmogrification into something we might think of as C and D.

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Part 6

Only a very experienced coach should ever be allowed to put a player through this process.

John Calipari just transforms players from A to B, and sometimes he doesn't even transform them. Sometimes he just lets them play like AAUers in college. Cal is no dummy. He knows he couldn't possibly transmogrify a whole team of freshman into real D1 basketball players capable of "both," of the hoops equivalent of The Glass Bead Game.

Self can't either. No one can.

So: Self is limiting himself to transmogrifying just two players and that can be alot when one of them is a freshman.

Perry, like Naadir, got his first real dosage of directed energy in the St. Louis game.

And he got it for the same reason. Perry is ready. He's now slightly more comfortable in playing "here", because Self has gone to a committee to ease his burden. With the burden eased, Perry now looks around a little occassionally beyond his own "here," and thinks, hey, I could go make a play over there! And he did it at least a couple times in the game last night...and that's really the first time he's done so. That was a big, big, big step. It made Self so happy that he decided Perry was ready for his first real dose of directed energy in a game.

Its going to get alot worse for Naadir and Perry.

Directed energy is something that blows a player out of "here" and into both "here" and "there."

Its going to take some more directed energy for these two players, because they are both very intelligent and very analytical types. They will backslide without further applications of directed energy. But there is a point at which they will come out of their inner worlds, their "here's" and explode into their outer world's of here and there. It is already starting.

But all good things take time.

Especially transmogrification. :-)

clevelandjayhawker 8 years, 5 months ago

I didnt read all 6 pages, i only read 2 sentances and skimmed a little but its easier to put it this way: Self breaks players down to build them up. He makes men out of boys by March with this formula of his.

flyingfinn 8 years, 5 months ago

Thanks for the synopsis God 6 pages!!!!!!

HawksWin 8 years, 5 months ago

JB, I'm really curious to know your academic/professional background. Would you enlighten me/others? If you don't want to post, how about "contact"? I ask because your views are not the norm that I find in KC/OP or even NYC or LA. Are you Physicists + Physician + Scientist + Eastern or Western Ethnicity? And yes I get that Old Age=Old Sage, but what are other added spices? No malice, just complements!

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

Nothing much worth knowing. I love basketball. You love basketball. We post about it. But thanks for asking.

Rock Chalk!

rockchalker5 8 years, 5 months ago

I wonder how much time he spends everyday writing these posts?

Tony Bandle 8 years, 5 months ago

Interesting rumor on local St.Louis appears Jim Delaney of the Big 10 is thinking of increasing the Big 10's basketball cache and is comtemplating inviting North Carolina and Kansas to join up some time in the future.

Throw in Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Indiana along with NC and KU and you've got one hell of a bball conference plus, along with Maryland and Rutgers, you add four football patsies for the original members to feast on.

Sounds crazy...but "crazy" seems to be the norm these days. We'll see??

bradynsdad 8 years, 5 months ago

Oak I have seen that rumor in multiple sights. Delaney knows that football rules all but he wants to rule the winter programming as well with basketball. KU and UNC would definitely make the big ten in basketball what the SEC is in football. Do I think UNC will leave the ACC? Probably 85% no. Would KU leave the Big 12? 60 % no, especially if Kansas lawmakers have anything to do with it. I for one wouldn't mind joint the B1G. UNC in the opposite division of us. Plus could you imagine how thrilled Doc would be to go into Nebraska and win as a jayhawk. Which conference would you prefer?

Tony Bandle 8 years, 5 months ago

With that conference, the top six teams regarding strength of schedule would all be in the Big 10!!! I kind of like where we are because of basketball dominance and the POTENTIAL for football respectibility. We go to the Big 10, basketball becomes much tougher and football becomes impossible!!

JJHAWK 8 years, 5 months ago

Whats wrong with winning league every year? After that the only focus is March madness. I prefer as high a seed as possible for March - I like our chances and the national view from where we are.

Steve Gantz 8 years, 5 months ago

You forgot the team that has the 2nd best record in the Big 10 over the last decade, Wisconsin. It's UW and MSU that would strike the most fear in KU, not the others.

Jayhawkgirl2 8 years, 5 months ago

Finally got to see the Jayhawks play live what a pleasure. We need a consistant 3 point shooter, when talent is equal and coaching is equal we have problems. Shouldnt bring a knife to a gunfight, develope a consistant 3 point shooter for tournament time. Glad Releford came out of his slump, might give AW3 a try what do you think... GO HAWKS!!!!!

jaybate 8 years, 5 months ago

"Some Things KU Fans Can Be Thankful for Not Being"

~K State fans.

~Scott Drew supporters.

~Athletic supporters.


~Defenders of Roy Williams-style defense.

~Creditors needing Ben Howland not to be fired so they can be repaid.

~The brother of General Petraeus' wife.

~Someone trying to shoot over Jeff Withey.

~Rick Barnes coming into AFH to take his pay back for beating KU in AFH last year.

(Note: All fiction. No malice.)

HawkKlaw 8 years, 5 months ago

This team is scary good. And it's only mid-November!

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