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Monday, May 14, 2012

Chicago prep guard pays KU a visit

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Kansas University may soon be adding a reinforcement to its backcourt for the 2012-13 men’s basketball season.

Milton Doyle, a 6-foot-4, 185-pound senior combo guard out of Chicago’s Marshall High, arrived on KU’s campus Monday for an official recruiting visit. The first-team Chicago Sun Times All-Public League selection and third-team Chicago Tribune all-stater recently decommitted from Florida International following the firing of coach Isiah Thomas.

Doyle, who averaged 19 points, seven rebounds and just under five assists per game his senior season, also has Nebraska and Colorado State on his list and recently made a recruiting trip to Bradley, which has since filled its allotment of scholarships. His mom, Lisa Green, tells Rivals.com that KU is her son’s “No. 1 dream school” and, while nothing is official yet, he doesn’t plan to make any other campus visits.

“I call him the quiet assassin,” Marshall coach Henry Cotton told the Chicago Sun Times. “He just goes about his job relentlessly. If he had waited (until second semester), he could have gone anywhere he wanted to, but he was loyal to the people who showed him interest (FIU) when no one else did. That’s the way he is.”

Cotton said the lanky Doyle, who is known for his slashing ability, “is a great player. If had played a little bit more and been out on the circuit a little bit more, he definitely could have played in the McDonald’s All-American game. He’s got natural talent. There is nothing that he can’t do on the floor. He can defend, he can pass, he can shoot it, he can drive to the basket and he can create for others, he can make people around him better and he can make himself better.”

Doyle, who last month scored 20 points in the Chicago Public League all-star game, is unranked nationally by Rivals.com. He missed his entire junior season after transferring from Chicago Tilden to Chicago Marshall because of a broken wrist. He did not play AAU ball in July last year, instead concentrating on his academic work.

“Doyle is the ultimate sleeper, an underrated talent who fits the cliché ‘his best basketball is ahead of him’ perfectly. It’s true,” wrote Joe Henricksen of the Chicago Sun Times. “Doyle is just scratching the surface. He’s long, wiry, active, extremely athletic and his skill level has improved the more he plays.

“Doyle remained a rather unknown (his senior year). Florida International snuck in and nabbed a commitment from Doyle last fall before the kid’s talent blew the top off and he became a hot commodity. Thomas, however, was fired following the season and Doyle was back on the open market. ... You just don’t typically find a talent this late in the recruiting game like Doyle, who has tremendous upside and untapped potential,” Henricksen added.

Noted ILprepbullseye.com: “(He is) a stellar athlete who was among top five players in Chicago Public League based on performance this past season.  Excels at slashing and has a tremendous mid-range game.”

His mom figures KU will land a commitment.

“I would say that it’s his choice. Kansas has already offered a scholarship, but he wanted to go see the school and see how things are at Kansas,” she said. “Milton just wants to spend a little time at Kansas and see what it’s all about. Kansas will be his third official visit (besides FIU, Bradley), so he’s got two visits left. My guess is he’s going to be sold on Kansas, so I don’t think he’ll use his final two visits, but I don’t know for sure.”

KU is also awaiting word from University of South Carolina sophomore Damontre Harris, a 6-9 forward who is down to KU and Florida. Anrio Adams, a 6-3 senior combo guard from Seattle’s Rainier Beach High, said again this week he plans to arrive at KU in June for summer school. He’s committed to KU, but has not yet signed a letter-of-intent as he awaits his latest standardized test score.

“I Will Be Wearing #2 For Kansas! This Year,” Adams wrote on Facebook on Monday.

Agents: KU senior guard Tyshawn Taylor, who graduated Sunday, has signed with Excel Sports Management and agent Jeff Schwartz. Excel also represents former KU players Paul Pierce, Mario Chalmers, Nick Collison and Cole Aldrich. Thomas Robinson, who is leaving KU after his junior year, has signed with Dutt Sports Services and agent Tony Dutt. Dutt also represents former KU players Marcus and Markieff Morris.

Transfer talk: Former Texas Tech forward Terran Petteway has decided to transfer to Nebraska. Petteway played 13.1 minutes per game for the Red Raiders last season. ... Julius Mays, a point guard from Wright State, has transferred to Kentucky, where he’s immediately eligible following his graduation.

Comments

brooksmd 2 years, 7 months ago

I can't keep track. Do we have enough scholarships for Doyle and Harris?

Eric Dawson 2 years, 7 months ago

Not if Anrio Adams qualifies, and Rio is talking as if he will. KU only has two scholarships left for 2012, and that's assuming that Justin Wesley will return to walk-on status for 2012-13.

At this point, given all the positive write-up from the Chicago press, I'd rather have Doyle, as he is immediately available, addresses an immediate concern and has a longer potential KU career than 2 year SC transfer Harris. Harris would be a good two year add for 2013-14 on with his defensive ability, but Self has said all along he is looking for another guard this year, so I would bet Doyle -- unless Harris wakes up and commits to KU upon hearing word of the Doyle interest.

Eric Dawson 2 years, 7 months ago

It's not unusual that Rio has yet to get his ACT scores back. The ACT states that it normally takes 3-8 weeks for scores to be issued to students. Rio took his ACT on 14 April, just over 4 weeks ago, so getting his results this week would be about right. It could easily take until 9 June for him to hear and still be within the ACT policy of 3-8 weeks.

Unfortunately, the Spring Signing period ends tomorrow (16 May), so if Rio doesn't hear today or tomorrow he won't be signing an NLI. As I understand it, that would leave him as fair game to any program that wanted to pursue him. He could still sign a financial aid agreement with KU after tomorrow, but that wouldn't obligate Rio to anything. As Doyle did with FIU, Rio could still change his mind and go elsewhere. I don't think that would happen, but one never knows, do one?

Mike Bratisax 2 years, 7 months ago

I do agree with those who say we need a guard more than we need another big but if the choice is between Harris and Doyle, I believe Harris is clearly the better get even if we need to wait until 2013.

If we sign Doyle, we can forget about Harris. If signing another guard has become this desperate, maybe Royce Woolridge should have stuck around. At least Royce had a proven track record in high school and was a top 150 player.

Of course, not even Self can predict the future but I doubt this kid will ever step out on the court in games where the outcomes are still in doubt. I fully admit that I haven't seen or heard much about his kid until it was announced he was coming to KU on an official recruiting visit. But in my defense, there really isn't a lot of information other than his senior season. Will Milton be quietly told that transferring might be in his best interest if things don't work out?

Harris though, would be an immediate impact player in 2013 and would round out a really fine recruiting class. It makes me wonder if the coaching staff doesn't see the improvement in Tharpe that they were hoping for or maybe EJ's injury is worse than what we have been led to believe.

lee3022 2 years, 7 months ago

Mike, knowing the difference in what each player brings vs the cost is coach's special talent. He has often found hidden talent. Peters also did not play AAU but because he was signed by KU he got rated. Once Doyle is signed by KU (and will be rated) he is a bird in hand and deserves his scholarship. Whether we get Adams or Harris is yet to be determined.

  • Lee

Jonathan Andrews 2 years, 7 months ago

If math were my strong suit, I'd say we have a schollie issue. Since it's not, WELCOME MILTON! Come to KU!

lothario64118 2 years, 7 months ago

I believe schollies should be covered. I think the one for Anrio was accounted for already. If he doesn't make the grade then he can still come but will be sitting out this season like the other 2 players did this past season. I just got a funny feeling he won't be eligible.

I like that this kid is a slasher and and has a midrange shot. Creating his own shot and being a good passer is awesome.

Welcome to Lawrence Milton.

Andy Tweedy 2 years, 7 months ago

Not everyone gets the option of sitting out. They were partial qualifiers. If Adams doesn't qualify, there is a decent chance he doesn't have that option.

hawk316 2 years, 7 months ago

I'm with you, lothario. I'm excited about this kid. Our coaching staff has such a knack of finding great talent that may be flying under the radar.

Bangkok_Jayhawk 2 years, 7 months ago

This Adams deal doesn't feel like it is going to happen. Then again... It seemed like Brandon Rush would never be able to play.

Michael Pannacciulli 2 years, 7 months ago

Guys...not your job to figure out the scholarship situation. It always works out. Leave that to Self and staff.

Robin Smith 2 years, 7 months ago

posts like this are lame

as fans it's our job to like KU basketball and to enjoy talking about any aspect of it we like.

duh, it has no bearing on the way it shakes out, but we can talk about it as much as we like

it's not your job to keep fans in line on behalf of Self and staff

Mike Bratisax 2 years, 7 months ago

And it's not your job to moderate the board mpann1818..

Freedman Moor 2 years, 7 months ago

If the scholarship situation always works out, KU would be the 2012 national champion. Even one of the three recruits KU lost for the year quite possibly could have been the difference-maker for KU against [insert name of soon-to-be vacated 2012 champion who I refuse to acknowledge by name here].

Jesse Johnson 2 years, 7 months ago

This might be a dumb question, but why would we need a schollie for Harris this year if he won't even be eligible to play?

Nutflush21 2 years, 7 months ago

Red-shirts still count against your scholarship allotment since they are still members of the team. I doubt the kid has the coin to pay for out-of-state tuition next school year. Even if he did, why would he? He is a high-major basketball talent that can go to school for free.

Andy Hess 2 years, 7 months ago

Of course he'll need one, because believe i or not, he will still be IN SCHOOL regardless of whether or not he plays, and as a scholarship STUDENT athlete, he'll need to have his scholarship to pay for school. Have you ever priced out of state tuition at KU?

Bangkok_Jayhawk 2 years, 7 months ago

A little curious why Kansas is going after an "unknown" but the other reality is that Bill Self has made it to two more Final Fours than I have so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Mike Bratisax 2 years, 7 months ago

I think the real reason is that every other target signed elsewhere.

Bangkok_Jayhawk 2 years, 7 months ago

To clarify my previous comment...

On the surface it seems as if our recruiting has taken a slight step back the past couple years. Rivals.com gave Jamari Traylor, Landon Lucas, Zack Peters, Merv Lindsay, and Braedon Anderson all a "3 Star" ranking the last 2 years. 5 players total. Compare that to 2004-2009 and only Reed, Morningstar, and Quintrell Thomas got the "3 Star" ranking. Fresh off a a national championship appearance, there shouldn't be too much to be worried about but curiosity might pop up eventually. I know that the star rankings don't mean everything, but they are not worthless either.

Self DEFINITELY deserves the benefit of the doubt after 8 consecutive Big 12 Titles, 2 Final Fours, and a National Championship. He is one heck of a coach. Just a tad curious about why recruiting has changed. Would love to see another monster class.

Curtis Stutz 2 years, 7 months ago

Ya rankings aren't everything, and 04-09 was a pretty strong stretch of recruiting by Self and staff. Another Chicago kid, JaVale McGee was unranked by rivals if you look him up but quickly went to the pros and starts for the Nuggets. I feel pretty fortunate that Doyle is a possibility. If we don't get Harris it puts more pressure on Traylor/Peters/Lucas/Ellis to improve so they can play big minutes in the paint after this year which could be good for late season play out of those guys I suppose.

Jack Wilson 2 years, 7 months ago

Ok .. this is easy. Rankings aren't perfect. But they are the strongest reliable source we have to predict a player's potential. It's a percentage deal. Sure, you can find a three start Derrick Williams. But how many times? Or you can find a five star flop (if one season can determine that) with Selby. But those are the major, major exceptions.

Pointing to the exception doesn't disprove the rule.

Curtis Stutz 2 years, 7 months ago

with as many exceptions as could be pointed out I don't think you can consider recruiting websites a "rule" they're more like guidelines

Mike Bratisax 2 years, 7 months ago

Guidelines, rules or whatever you want to call them, they are at present the most accurate gauge of talent and have a pretty strong track record to back it up.

Do I trust HCBS to identify talent that hasn't been identified by the major rankings sources? Yes but on the next to last day of the spring signing period, I'm a little skeptical.

Curtis Stutz 2 years, 7 months ago

Last year 3-star Derrick Williams takes cbb by storm as a sophomore? This year 3-star Terrell Stoglin leads the ACC in scoring as a sophomore...it's not uncommon for lowly ranked players to be stars. Next year 3-star recruit Mark Lyons will lead Arizona who knows how far.

So thought I'd take a quick look at the track record as jhawk7782 called it, started with Rivals 2003 top10. Shows Ndudi Ebi, no basketball career worth mentioning, James Lang, no basketball career worth mentioning (and some tragic health problems in '09), David Padgett, decent college player, Brian Butch, decent college player after redshirting as a freshman to give his body a chance to mature if I recall. Wow, you could have signed 4 big men in the rivals top9 and wound up with a fairly mediocre frontcourt in a few years. Or you could have signed 3-star #148 Aaron Gray and ended up with a 3rd team All-American that averaged a double-double his junior year and is still playing as a center in the NBA.

I literally opened up rivals, went to the oldest class they have in their rankings, boom, 4 overrated top9 players, all big men, looked at the last big man in their top150, better basketball career than all 4, crazy. I did not dig to find an exception, took quick look through the top10, scrolled to bottom and looked for the last center on the list. Certainly Padgett and Lang had health issues that probably hurt their careers but still, this was in my first 2 minutes of critiquing the rankings.

I'm not going to spend a month looking through all this junk to come up with some measurement of how good these ratings are, and I'm not going to ignore them, but I'm certainly not going to make a lot of assumptions about a players potential based on them either. If a guy is 7' 280lbs and not in bad shape, I'm gonna assume he has potential. If a guy is 6'8" and dunks like Dominique I'm gonna assume he has potential. If a guy is 6'4" and long, can pull up jumpers, find open teammates, block shots, finish at the rim with either hand and is strong with the ball like Milton Doyle, I'm gonna assume he has potential. I think the best aspect of Doyle is how unexcited he is after scoring. He just goes about his business. Sure you'd like to see him getting up above the rim a little higher, maybe Hudy can help him with that if he ends up at KU.

Curtis Stutz 2 years, 7 months ago

of course I posted all that and just read that KU didn't offer Doyle a scholarship. Not yet anyway, which hopefully means we expect Harris and Adams next year, which is ideal at this point.

addlime 2 years, 7 months ago

I like the blend of 4 and 5 star talent with guys that fit the system. That's really what the 08 team was (Rush, Chalmers, Arthur were the highly ranked, maybe Collins). Kaun, Jackson, Robinson more like role players. Actually, the more I write I guess I'm disproving myself. If you consider Cole, there were quite a few top recruits in that group. But they weren't all top 20 talent like Kentucky and UNC. Seems like KU could be building another group like that right now.

Martin Rosenblum 2 years, 7 months ago

"..losing out..,especially with the Bigs." is puzzling. Who have we ever had come into the program at a post position, who has been on the national radar in the top rankings? We've molded a lot of lower ranked top 100 recruits. We've proven that we had a formula for success from a coaching standpoint. With Danny out of the picture, it will be even harder to land the big fish. I would love to have a rundown on where the past 10 big men, 6-10 and over, were ranked coming into the KU incoming class. I think it would be shocking and would tend to instill even more pride in the coaching staff.

kgreg01 2 years, 7 months ago

HOW ABOUT "the former" B12 INSTABILITY AND BREAK UP. NOT A BAD PIECE OF RHETORIC TO USE AGAINST US if you are UK, DOOK, UNC, OSU, etc

Ron Prichard 2 years, 7 months ago

Head Coach Bill Self. Or Holy Cr@p it's Bill Self. Your choice.

mgphill 2 years, 7 months ago

HCBS = Head Coach Bill Self ACJD = Assistant Coach Joe Dooley ACKT = Assistant Coach Kurtis Townsend ACNR = Assistant Coach Norm Roberts VCJF = Video Coordinator Jeff Forbes DBOBB = Director of Basketball Operations Brennan
Bechard

....DUH!!!

Michael Bennett 2 years, 7 months ago

I also think KU is not a great place for one-and-dones (recently). The style of basketball here just doesn't support flashy top-ten recruits as a stepping stone to the NBA; those guys are better off at Kentucky, Duke, even Texas rather than KU. I think this is especially true for guards. They were trying to teach Selby to play real college basketball and defense, and it was clashing with his shoot-first game from high school. I like how we are able to keep players for a couple years and develop more team chemistry, but we are missing out some of the better talent.

Mike Bratisax 2 years, 7 months ago

If you can sell Kentucky with its location, selling Kansas should be easy.

I had the unfortunate experience of living in Kentucky when my father was at Fort Campbell. Fort Leavenworth was his next stop and it was night and day. It felt as if I had reentered civilization.

Of course, if I was into coon hunting with bluetick hounds or had a taste for overweight women who couldn't spell deodorant much less use it, then maybe I would have had a different opinion

bennybob 2 years, 7 months ago

A big reason KU misses on many top schools that nobody likes to talk about because it just points to how pathetic recruiting has become in the modern day:

KU is an addidas school.

Nike and the Jordan brand dominate basketball and have the market essentially cornered. My brother plays on an AAU team with Tyus Jones(#1 pg in the class of 2014) and i talk with him often about how addidas is considered a joke by todays youth and not seen to be nearly as prestigous.

Take a look at the final list of most top prospect these days, often times it come down to a group of 3-5 nike schools or a group of 3-5 addidas schools. its an incredibly shallow way to pick a school, but what can you say about kids these days.

the fact of that matter is, being sponsored by addidas is putting the program at a disadvantage in todays recruitng game.

Freedman Moor 2 years, 7 months ago

Sad to say, but you're right. I've even heard (read) recruits say as much. What's really effed-up is the deal KU had with Nike. It was a slap in the face. The current deal that Lew negotiated is (I believe) around ten times the dollar value.

Freedman Moor 2 years, 7 months ago

Sad to say, but you're right. I've even heard (read) recruits say as much. What's really effed-up is the deal KU had with Nike. It was a slap in the face. The current deal that Lew negotiated is (I believe) around ten times the dollar value.

Eric Dawson 2 years, 7 months ago

A Top 10 Recruiting Class ranking by Rivals (#12 by Scout) is hardly a step backwards this year. The previous two years were less than we would hope for (even with Ben McLemore in last year's, neither class was in Scout's or Rivals' Top 25), but this year's class is excellent. And the future is looking bright as well with Conner Frankamp and Brannen Greene (both *) already committed, and (according to Scout) offers out to 9 and 8 ** for 2013-2014. Monster classes are always something to brag about but for the OaD syndrome, which doesn't fit Self's style. We've yet to see any real impact from any of our OaD's. (X? Really? Don't even waste your keystrokes. He was the Invisible OaD when he was needed). Give me Self and a Top 10-15 class every year (unlikely, since volume counts in rankings and KU doesn't have Squid-like OaD turnover), and I'd say KU is in great shape every year.

gdkadjayhawk 2 years, 7 months ago

Good perspective. On a completely different subject, if you are local, were you at KU's joint ROTC commissioning ceremony yesterday? Big crowd in the ballroom and an impressive looking group of new lieutenants and ensigns serving our country today.

Eric Dawson 2 years, 7 months ago

I am local, but was in Denver over the weekend, so no, I missed it. I take it from your description you made the ceremony -- thanks for representing!

bennybob 2 years, 7 months ago

the argument that OADs dont fit Self's system is a fallacy.

If Self truly wasn't interested in OADs he wouldn't consistently offer 5-6 scholarships to them year in and year out.

the truth is, Self realizes talent wins basketball games and like every other coach in america he's out to get the most talent he can everytime he sets foot on the recruiting trail.

he's just doesnt land them at as high a rate as Cal, Roy, and the other top recruiters today.

Eric Dawson 2 years, 7 months ago

Sure talent wins, and sure Self tries to get the best he can. But to play well at KU OaDs have to be able to play in the system and not worry about being the star to maximize their NBA value. That is what was so remarkable about Squid's work at Contucky this past season -- he got them to buy into team ball, and it paid off for them. Of course, in Squid's case he had a bunch of OaDs, so in some respect that made it easier to get them to buy into team ball. So it can be argued that it's practically a case of go whole hog OaD or don't bother. And don't kid yourself, Self is one of the top recruiters out there. He had a dry spell last year, but he's back on track now. He's definitely better than Roy, who had multiple poor recruiting years when he was at KU. And from what I've seen (and I'll grant you I don't follow other programs like I follow KU), Squid is the only one out there that has been consistently successful with landing multiple OaDs.

Mike Bratisax 2 years, 7 months ago

Just a little aside..Quintrell Thomas turned out to be a decent player at UNLV and could have made some solid contributions for us last year if he had decided to redshirt one of his seasons at KU. Always happy to see a former Jayhawk do well.

Curtis Stutz 2 years, 7 months ago

Don't have enough for both Harris and Doyle, kind of guessing Harris wasn't sold on KU and the staff is concerned about Adams qualifying. Imagine KU will end up with Doyle on the team next year, sounds like he's got a lot of potential and who would want to play at FIU after that fiasco they've had down there. Would love to have Harris on the team, but it's also exciting to have another guy that is eligible to play next year. Sounds like Doyle can play and he and Adams could be a great tandem down the road. If you google him and watch his highlights you have to love the shot blocking instincts he has as a "point guard." He's definitely long, has a nice looking mid-range game and some court vision. Think I'd be happy with either Harris or Doyle, exciting thing about Doyle is the chance to contribute next year on a team that might need help at the point.

kujh1970 2 years, 7 months ago

So much for the talk. If he is that good, his playing should speak for itself.

nuleafjhawk 2 years, 7 months ago

I don't care if he's cross-eyed, drools and dribbles the ball with his nose - I just love the way his name rolls off of your tongue!

Milton Doyle - the dude is gonna be a star.

I think Coach Self probably didn't even need to see tape on this guy. He heard his name and said " Sign him. Now. With a name like that on our team, we could possibly win a conference championship! "

Martin Rosenblum 2 years, 7 months ago

Merv Lindsay's name never did quite "roll off your tongue", did it?

Mike Bratisax 2 years, 7 months ago

Magic MerLin? Mervelous Lindsay? LinSanity?

Bangkok_Jayhawk 2 years, 7 months ago

Disagree... I was expecting big things based off the name "Merv". It could have been epic!!!

Andy Tweedy 2 years, 7 months ago

When I think of "Milton" I can't help but think of the dude with the red stapler in Office Space.

Ron Prichard 2 years, 7 months ago

Ummm....yeah....we're going to need you to move.

Brandon Pope 2 years, 7 months ago

I also think the recruiting has something to do Self's style and philosophy. I know I have said this on here before, but he is more of a system coach. He will gladly take a guy who has fewer "stars" on Rivals if it means gaining a player who fits what he wants to do with the program. And what he wants to do has worked out pretty well so far so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Sure you want to land the ** and * guys when you can and when they fit. Take Ellis. Perfect guy for Self's system plus a local guy, hard worker, probably set to be a great ambassador for the school, AND a * recruit. That is the perfect situation but they don't come around like that all the time.

Lesser coaches (I am thinking of the likes of Scott Drew), cant rely on being able to craft a winning system or to develop players to fit in and success so what do they have to do? Go out and get as many raw talent * guys as they can convince to come to Baylor.

Look at Calipari. Now, he is a far better coach than Drew, but he is certainly no Bill Self when it comes to strategy and formulating a system for success. What he is good at: getting a bunch of * talent to buy in for one season and take a shot at the title. If you throw that much talent at the tournament every year, you are bound to take one home eventually. It's just a totally different coaching philosophy.

I personally prefer the system Self sets up. Get guys that will stick around for 2-4 years, bring in under the radar guys and develop them to fit your style, have a small group of seniors that can lead the team every single year, and sprinkle in a few of the ultra-talented guys to push everything over the top.

Like I said, it has worked out so far.

Jack Wilson 2 years, 7 months ago

Remember, if we need a scholarship, one will magically appear.

Milton Doyle is depth. Just take it for what it is. Self would not be pursuing this guy if Adams was coming and would be eligible. That would make no sense. It's Coach Self doing his job and making sure that we're covered in the event of an emergency.

And the reality is that Doyle may go the way of Merv Lindsay at the end of next season. Another "diamond in the rough" we brought at nearly the same point last year solely for depth (someone that had "to be a player, or why else would Self bring him in")

Or, if Doyle truly is an unranked, no one recruited (I don't count Green Bay or FIU as "someone"), everyone missed over many season of basketball, diamond in the rough .. he'll get to hang around another season. And that doesn't mean he's good enough to play. But don't bet on the him being here beyond 2012-13.

It is just how the game is played.

chi_town24 2 years, 7 months ago

First and foremost this is my little brother u guys are talking about and u really have no idea what kind of talent the jayhawks are about 2 receive his highlights are only a sneak peek at what he can do. I will be posting later to give u the full rundown on my brother Milt.

HawkKlaw 2 years, 7 months ago

Don't mind HEM. He's our resident "glass is half-empty" poster. (And as you can probably tell, he loves him some rivals.com rankings.)

Eric Dawson 2 years, 7 months ago

chi-town24,

If you really are Milton Doyle's brother -- or even if you aren't but just know a lot about him from seeing him a lot first hand -- please consider signing up on http://www.rockchalk.com/boards/register.php and telling the regulars there more about him. They are a mostly older crowd of KU alums and fans who go there for straight talk without all the B.S. that you will find on most fan boards.

Thanks, and good luck to your brother!

chi_town24 2 years, 7 months ago

Yes Milton is really my BLOOD brother. And I will definitely sign up bcuz alot of people really don't understand the magnitude of his game. And also once and for all HE MADE 1ST TEAM ALLSTATE! not 2nd or third.

Curtis Stutz 2 years, 7 months ago

chi_town24, hopefully you can understand the skepticism some of the fans here have because of the lack of national rankings and the late entry to KU's recruiting scene. If Milton Doyle becomes a member of the team everyone on here will be hoping to hear good things about how he practices/trains, will hope to see great plays out of him at Late Night (I remember TT swiping one from Sherron early in the late night scrimmage and thinking "all right, we might have ourselves a heck of a guard here"), and will be rooting for him as a player/student/person at KU and beyond. If it doesn't work out and he goes to UNL or CSU we wish him the best and appreciate him visiting the University of Kansas.

jdhawk1988 2 years, 7 months ago

He sounds like a guy from chicago a few years back.

"In 2000, Wade was No. 7 in the voting for the Illinois Mr. Basketball Award. Wade was recruited by only three schools — Marquette University, Illinois State and DePaul University. "

Rivals has only been around for 10 years and 40% of there top 150 are bust not over rated but BUSTS (Micah Downs anyone).

Milt join us and prove these haters that only focus on a publication that focuses only on AAU ball wrong

bennybob 2 years, 7 months ago

If your trying to make an argument for a why a kid is better then the consensus believe, you probably don't want to lead off with "he's my little brother"

you've destroyed all credibility of your claims because your objectivity has to be questioned.

chi_town24 2 years, 7 months ago

I really don't care if u believe me or not because his game will speak for itself and coach self knows what he's capable of that's why he sat him in his office and told him that he not there to backup ANYBODY! He wants the ball in his hands. He loves proving people wrong. And lastly I am his brother but if his game wasn't good enough I would be honest bcuz its only right so I am not being biased. This is a rare talent here and even Isiah said he is the truth and he never says that, and people can say what they want about Isiah Thomas but at the end of the day he's a legend and knows talent when he sees it.

bennybob 2 years, 7 months ago

Yes becasue no coach in history has ever lied to a recruit to make him want to come to his shcool more.

Coaches sit kids down in there office all the time and tell them "you know what, your not very good. your to slow, to small and wont be competetive for playing time here......but pick my school anyway!"

chi_town24 2 years, 7 months ago

coach self wouldnt lie to a recruit i dont think. but any top school is going to be straight forward with u especially this late. But at the end of the day people can speculate but I KNOW whats going on!

Mike Bratisax 2 years, 7 months ago

It's amazing how telling the truth makes you a 'the glass is half empty' pessimist. When we sign a top ranked recruit, or have the nations #1 recruiting class all of a sudden the ratings mean something. But when we sign a completely unranked player on the last or next to last day of the spring signing period, the rankings become just a little better than reading tea leaves as HCBS never signs players who aren't up to the task.

chi_town24... I can assure you that if your little brother is all that we hope then you can count on all Jayhawk fans to get behind him and welcome hand into the fold. But if you've been monitoring the recruiting here at KU the past several weeks, you would see why there is some level of skepticism.

I can pretty much guarantee that HEM would love to see your brother disprove the rankings and be one of those exceptions. I know I would.

hawksince51 2 years, 7 months ago

Accepting what the article says at face value, there is a lot to like about this kid. Self obviously agrees since he has offered a scholarship. Hard to say how much he could contribute next season but it would seem he would be around awhile. That certainly has more appeal than an OAD guard who never really contributes anything and is gone the next NBA draft. The recent pattern of losing the 5 star recruits to the likes of UK, NC and Duke, and even UCLA is sometimes disheartening but there is value to getting the players who you can count on for more than a year. As I have said before, I do not feel Self's system is consistent with OAD's particularly on the perimeter.
I really enjoy watching the NBA pay big bucks to get these guys to come out early and then see them end up in the D league. Maybe someday they will get a little more intelligent with their bucks and only go after players who have actually performed in college instead of paying for potential that so often never develops. But that may very well be a false hope. In the meantime, I have no issue with a recruiting class like we are having this year.

pill41 2 years, 7 months ago

We need one of Doyle and Adams but Harris is a key target. Look at the roster breakdown. Harris would be our starting center for 2 years, probably along side Perry Ellis if he doesn't leave early. My guess is if Damontre commits, it comes down to one or the other for the combo guards. We'll have Frankamp and Greene to add to the mix next year anyway.

Fred Davis 2 years, 7 months ago

Reading about this Milton Doyle kid, he is not some 'extra body' that is going to take up space and simply be used for depth. This kid can play. You don't end up as one of the top players in Chicago as a scrub - this kid has game. From what I've read, this kid has been an anomaly when it comes to the recruiting process and getting his name out there. He's a victim of switching schools, getting hurt, no AAU exposure and then under a cloak of darkness signs with Isaiah Thomas out of nowhere, and boom, the kid goes unnoticed.

I say props to the KU coaches for finding about this youngster, because he clearly wants to be in Lawrence, and when moms is on board, what's not to like? Add in the fact he's got that Chi-Town grit and grime about him, not to mention I've read he's a lockdown-type defender, so what's not to like? I'm pumped about this young man, provided he ends up in crimson and blue, which it sounds like he will, but you never know. This continues the re-education of Kansas recruiting under Bill Self. The Xavier Henry's and Josh Selby's of the world coming in and disrupting the flow are over. Self has gone back to getting kids who will buy in to what he's coaching, play great defense, yet sprinkle in a few four and five-star kids who feel slighted - sounds funny writing that - but are committed to winning. Props to Self for what he's done. Rock Chalk.

Also, quick football note, talked to a member of the OU coaching staff yesterday and asked his thoughts on Charlie Weis - "there's no doubt the football pedigree is there. But when you look at his track record, it makes you wonder. It'll be interesting." Indeed it will.

bennybob 2 years, 7 months ago

The true test of how much influence Self has in Chicago recruiting circles will be in landing Jabari Parker.

Self and all the other blue bloods are after this kid hard.

DCLawHawk 2 years, 7 months ago

You could have stopped after "Self can recruit Chicago." Given his track record with recruits from Chicago/Illinois, I can't fathom where all the skepticism is coming from about this kid. Bring him on! And chi_town24, please visit often. You'll love Lawrence as much as your brother Milton will.

bhol 2 years, 7 months ago

I like this guy. Real quick and looks like a good shooter, but probably not an immediate contributor.

HawkKlaw 2 years, 7 months ago

Why does everyone keep posting about Bill Self missing out on recruits? From what I can tell he's landed quite a few great prospects recently:

Perry Ellis (McD's All-American, Ranked #24) Andrew White (Ranked #56) Zach Peters (Ranked #144)

And from last season, even despite the late recruiting dash: Ben McLemore (Ranked #17) Naadir Tharpe (Ranked #91) Jamari Traylor (Ranked #141)

Out of those six players, at least three are going to be big-time contributors and possibly starters at KU. Combine that with returning studs in Elijah Johnson (Ranked #24), Jeff Withey (Ranked #36) and Travis Releford (Ranked #70) and I think you've got yourself a heck of a team. Not worth complaining about IMO.

So I don't think Self is missing out on a whole lot. Sure, there are the big name players that go to places like UK and UNC, but like others have said, Self recruits players that fit his system. If a player doesn't want to focus on defense, passing the ball around to the open man, or working hard in general to earn playing time, he will probably think twice about playing at KU (not to mention that Kansas is not exactly a destination of choice for guys that will only be playing college ball for a year or two). Not to say that anyone who doesn't choose to come to KU is lazy and egotistical, but it's obvious that Self does not cater to these types of players. If you don't work hard on defense, you don't play at Kansas.

bennybob 2 years, 7 months ago

"Self recruits players that fit his system."

No, he doesnt.

He trys to recruit the best players in every class, misses out, and then settles on guys that we rationalize as the kids we've always wanted because they "fit his system"

8 of the top 10 players on rivals class of 2013 are uncommitted and all 8 are being recruited by KU. these are obvious OAD kids and Self is going after all of them.

i highly doubt he's going after them because they all "fit his system"

oldalum 2 years, 7 months ago

He goes after them because they are the top talent, and no coach passes on top talent. However, he seems to be realistic enough to understand from the first that he doesn't have a chance to get most of them and so makes alternate plans at the same time. He knows you can't count on a kid signing just because he says he's going to, so he does throw out his net for the top talent at the same time he's looking for those guys that will fit in if it comes to that.

ClydeTurnbuckle 2 years, 7 months ago

How is no one getting that KU has a serious problem with our lack of guards! Lots of teams start three or even four guards. We have a grand total of two on our roster and one of them had trouble getting the ball across half court last year.

Yes, we are going to make B Mac play a two guard. But that is not his natural position. He played in the post until his junior year of high school and then they moved him to a wing.

Fatigue, injuries, foul trouble, breaking the press, waiting for Naadir to find the game that everyone knows he has......This backcourt has some issues man.

Curtis Stutz 2 years, 7 months ago

Well this is KU, not Missery, so tend to not start 4 guards as there is actually size on the roster. Also Tharpe looked as though he was turning the corner at the end of last season. I don't know that he had a hard time getting past half court, but he sure forced a lot of bad passes once he got there. Without Adams or Doyle we've only got 2 PG's, more than say UK will next year as far as I can tell. If Adams and Doyle both end up at KU that's 4 potential PGs. If BMac isn't ready to start at SG he won't, but it's the position he needs to play at this level and has had plenty of time in practice now to prepare. From what other players have said about him he's definitely ready to. Already have Frankamp signed for next year so we look to be in good shape as long as at least one of Doyle or Adams works out.

Alex Resnik 2 years, 7 months ago

"He did not play AAU ball in July last year, instead concentrating on his academic work." This is my favorite part of the article. This kid gave up a season of AAU so that he could get his academics in order. Love where his head is at and I LOVE 6-4 point gaurds that slash. If I had to choose between AA and MD.. I think I'm taking MD just because he made sure his academics were in order before he focused on basketball. Good luck Milton Doyle! Hope to see you in a KU uni VERY soon!!

RJ King 2 years, 7 months ago

Was waiting for someone to shine the spotlight of significance on that.

jaymar74 2 years, 7 months ago

Just a wild thought, but I say we let Bill Self coach our team and manage it's makeup.

Mike Bratisax 2 years, 7 months ago

Yes..how dare we express our own opinions.

Miguel Colón 2 years, 7 months ago

Ok, say we get both Harris and Doyle, how does this affect the recruitment of Freeman and Chris Walker? I mean these are two kids we have a real shot at, but with Doyle and Rio and McClemore stays more than one year, where is the PT? Same for Walker with all these bigs? Not to mention we got Greene coming.

Vernon Riggs 2 years, 7 months ago

Where was EJ's playing time? You wait your turn.

Vernon Riggs 2 years, 7 months ago

Rio? Harris? Milt? (we did okay with another Kansas Milt) I like Rio spirit! ('I will be wearing #2 for Kansas. This year") I like anyone who said that Kansas is his 'Dream Number One' school. How can we go wrong? Rock Chalk the Cupboards are Stocked!

Jack Wilson 2 years, 7 months ago

HawkKlaw: Seems like someone loves his rivals rankings .. using them to identify the top recruits, it appears. How can that be?

Self, though, has missed on some top guys. No doubt. But so has everyone else this side of Kentucky. It ebbs and flows. Lots of factors go into recruiting. Immediate playing time seems to be one that costs us on a few guys. That's fine with me. I love the guys in the 20 - 70 range. I agree with posters that suggest this is Self's best range for recruits, for his system, for player development.

What I personally don't care for are really guys outside of the top 100 being relied upon to provide significant contributions. History shows the odds aren't in your favor.

But what I always say when folks criticize rankings is to trust Coach Self. Somehow folks seem to think that if Coach Self signs a low or unranked player that he loves the kid. That's not true. It is what he is left with (Peters the exception .. but I recall him higher at the time of his commitment. Maybe 80ish?). He always recruits the higher guys, and then if/when they don't pan out, he moves lower. That's how we get Jamari Traylor, Braeden Anderson, Landen Lucas. Or now Milton Bradley .. or Doyle .. or whatever.

This past season, he was "all in" on Kaleb Tarczewski. Well documented. And he missed. Sometimes trying to hit the home run (meaning showing the kid that he is your only target, that you love the kid, etc, in hopes of that helping you convince him), leads to a dramatic strike out. He then was stuck with Landen Lucas. Not his preference. If he gets Tarc, Lucas isn't here. If he gets Nash/Chol, Traylor isn't here and Anderson never happened. Trust Coach Self. See who he's offering. Check their rankings. How many non-top 100 guys does he offer? The answer ... None ... until he is told no by other top 100.

If 2011-12 proved anything, it is that we will win so long as Coach Self is the coach. He'll find the right mix. It's just that the chances of a national title do go up, when you have top guys (see 2008). But we do have a coach that can get us there even if we don't have multiple top guys (see 2012).

It's good to be a Jayhawk.

HawkKlaw 2 years, 5 months ago

I was merely pointing out that people keep saying Bill Self misses out on top recruits (based on their rankings), so I provided a rebuttal to that. Based on the rankings, he hasn't missed out on much. And based on ability/skill, he certainly hasn't missed out at all.

mgphill 2 years, 7 months ago

Can anyone reassure me that videos like the following are not to blame?

JayDocMD 2 years, 7 months ago

This was produced by a K-state fan that wants to bash KU. Even though the video is ridiculous propoganda, propogating these videos with reposts on KU message boards doesn't seem wise.

The truth is Bill Self at KU has inherited/recruited multiple top-tier and mid-level recruits and developed them into good enough players to get drafted: Cole Aldrich, Darrell Arthur, Mario Chalmers, Brandon Rush, Keith Langford, Wayne Simen, Julian Wright, Darnell Jackson, the Morris twins, Josh Selby, Xavier Henry and Sasha Kaun are the ones that come to mind.

That's all a high school kid can want - a chance at playing ball professionally. Once drafted, what any player does from there is up to the situation they are drafted into, how they compete and continue to grow, and whether thay can stay healthy.

JayDocMD 2 years, 7 months ago

** propagating

propa spelling optional today...

Tony Bandle 2 years, 7 months ago

mgphill...of course no one can assure you what goes through the mind of an elite 18 year old athlete, but if this video influences them, what chance did we have anyway?

How about two National Championship games in the span of five years with a NC included. How about the fact that despite what happened in the Big Show, Bill helped them get there. How about the fact that Bill will send up two more Hawks to the NBA this draft?

Someone went to a lot of trouble to make Bill look bad. Why???? Because Bill is very, very good and that's bad for the rest of Division One!!!

ku1otaku 2 years, 7 months ago

How about three national championship games in the last 10 years (2003, 2008, 2012) and four Final Four appearances (2002, 2003, 2008, 2012). I realize you are referencing Bill Self, but I am referring to KU in general. We really have had it good.

jaybate 2 years, 7 months ago

Doesn't Self stripping a recruit away from Dr. Albino and Doc Sadler replacement Tim Miles at Lincoln Logs College of the Unicameral Husks count for anything with you people?

Can't we take even a little joy in kicking the Cornshuckers, when they are down?

Wasn't Doc a member in good standing with the Okie Baller Mafia and doesn't Self owe it to Doc to stick Dr. Albino his Colorado State "find?"

And don't we all owe the Cornhusker's Self-Lotioners a poke in the eye for leaving the B12 just to keep Buffet on the side of the anti-Super Corridor and anti-bitumen plumbing folks?

Is nothing sweet to you people?

Ahem.

Seriously, he sounds like sleeper to me. A long shot. But still a sleeper. A guy Isaiah used some influence to land, when few were looking--a kind of influence we probably don't want to know about either.

Perhaps if the kid were as terrific of a sleeper as his coach claims, then some schools would be afraid of Isaiah radiation.

So:why not Self?

How do you spell: c-l-e-a-n?

Self took in Josh Selby, when a lot of folks were nervous about his Bruce Perl radiation. And, in fact, apparently Josh did get a fine tooth comb treatment from the NCAA that eventually lead to him sitting out awhile, because of inappropriate assistance in his past.

My guess signing a player like Josh, or perhaps Milton in the case at hand, causes a lot of programs with skeletons to hide to shy away.

Maybe Milton really is as good as his high school coach indicates.

Maybe Milton has Isaiah radiation.

Maybe that radiation will trigger some fine tooth combing of Milton and the school he signs with.

Maybe Self knows KU is clean and can stand the fine tooth combing.

Maybe.

Or maybe Milton is just a marginal player with some size at PG that Self views as a potential One And Flush, OAF as I now like to call them.

OAFs are the the guys you bring in to fill out a scout squad with more athleticism than you can expect from walk-ons, but not enough to pencil them in for a 4-5 year commitment. They come for a year and move on.

When will the NCAA ever, ever, ever, ever clean rescind this cruel rule and make schools commit for four years plus a red shirt?

We will know, as many (but not me) recognized with Merv Lindsey, for sure by December, whether, or not, Milton is a sleeper, or a Merv, a great find, or an OAF.

REHawk 2 years, 7 months ago

Unicameral Husks and OAFs. Ha! I think jb has hit a daily double with this post!

milehighhawk 2 years, 7 months ago

Had my doubts about him, but after seeing the comment that he's one of the top 5 players in Chicago, I thought:

"Oh...Doyle Rules!"

Steve Kubler 2 years, 7 months ago

If he can keep that sweet 3-ball in a dome sign him today!

Recruiting comes and goes, but our expectations always stay the same. Not real fair perhaps but for the past 30 years(or so) I have come to expect at least an elite 8 appearance. We got that this year, plus more. It was one of the most exciting seasons from start to finish in the last decade. To blazes with worrying about OADs and ratings in general. Just give me more great team players playing as a team with a great coach to direct them.

I could stand to see a few more teams like the one we had this year, just not sure my heart can. Although I would like to see a couple of guys that can shoot threes in a dome!!

REHawk 2 years, 7 months ago

Off subject, but did anyone see Cole nail down those 7 points in the Thunder victory over the Lakers last night? Collison played a terrific game. Sometimes difficult for me to remember Durant as a Longhorn OAD. Seems as tho his skill and demeanor represent the very best in the way of Jayhawk Hoops. I have always thought that he and D. Manning might have worked extremely well together. What a legacy that might have made, both for Danny and our program. I hope KD never gets arrested for dropping his pants in public. He would appear to be the super posterplayer for whatever is best in the current NBA. Certainly does cast a good face on Big 12 Basketball. Rick Barnes hit a humongous home run, signing Kevin to play in Austin.

Mike Bratisax 2 years, 7 months ago

'Nick' had a great game w/contributions on both ends of the court. Cole on the other hand was sitting bat home reading European travel brochures.

Hard to imagine having Durant plus a solid team and not making it to the Final 4 but Barnes pulled it off.

jaybate 2 years, 7 months ago

~Copy and paste on Durant. He is the gold standard in a too often fiat currency NBA.

~Can someone please tell David Stern his NBA is OOC, as in out of control. Three major players at least have gone down to severe injuries early in the play offs, according to USA Today, a paper that can look the other way at almost anything, but at least felt the need to note this rash of injuries. Why do I care about the NBA? Because it and its media-gaming complex cronies have been trickling down XTReme Muscle, XTReme Cherry Picking (aka the OAD rule) and XTReme Agent/Merchandizing Pimping into D1 for too long now. It has been clear for some time that the NBA opts for strategies that undermine D1 in ways that strengthen the NBA. If the NBA is so addicted to violence and resulting injury as a marketing technique to attract eye balls; i.e., if the NBA is intent on pursuing the NHL-ification of the NBA, we are only a few years from the Madness becoming a lottery of blown knees and missing teeth, as the NBA has become.

Perhaps it is time for D1 to stop following the NBA. Perhaps it is time to call the NBA what it is: a tail wagging the D1 dog. The solution is simple and cash strapped states and universities are going to love it, because it is going to make them rich, er, it is going to "develop" funding beyond their wildest dreams. Almost every university has a cash cycle and a magnitude of political influence, and a tax exempt status that would absolutely assure it would smack down an NBA franchise in a competition of basketball product over time. The NBA is vulnerable. It is structurally tied to status quo with these enormous salaries it guaranties. It has to pay the huge long term contracts. Its war chest is only designed to with stand a union strike. It can only survive, as a cartel if free from competition. Its franchises have to pay taxes. They depend on the subsidization of their arenas. The owners all depend on making their big money on exit (sale of franchise); that is an inherently vulnerable business position. D1 needs to start a 300-plus team post graduate pro league with a June Madness. It would start out, like the old AFL, as the weaker league, but in time its advantages would weigh in and it would marginalize the NBA, or force a merger. It would optimize arena usage and amp TV revenues through the roof. D1 is getting used at every turn in its "cooperative" alliance with the NBA. It is time to integrate vertically tomorrow. It is time to organize itself as a competitor of the NBA capable of using the size and political weight of its institutions to marginalize the NBA. Next.

jaybate 2 years, 7 months ago

Are you saying a lone gunman is responsible for realignment? :-)

Considering recent renewed speculation of eastward Big 12 expansion, I am not ready to throw away the Super Corridor hypothesis quite yet. :-)

Seth Nesmith 2 years, 7 months ago

It's hard to believe JR Giddens was drafted by the Boston Celtics in the 1st round and Chalmers was taken in the 2nd round in that draft. Just a random thought.

KULA 2 years, 7 months ago

JR's offensive skill set was at least as good as Brandon Rush's, if not better. And he was certainly more aggressive on the offensive end. He had the "potential" to be a good NBA player. And that's what three quarters of the NBA draft is all about--potential.

RJ King 2 years, 7 months ago

More agressive? Disagree. Giddens was incredibly athletic with mega hops. And so he was repeated begged, scolded, instructed, and harped on by HCBS to drive to the basket more often for the % shot. Instead, he defiantly roamed the perimeter and when his 3-pt shot failed him, his contributions slid, and so did his attitude.

I'll take Rush any day!

KULA 2 years, 7 months ago

I think JR became more aggressive when he got to New Mexico, and I think Brandon always had to be pushed to be more aggressive also.

I'd take Rush also, but it'd be close. And I always hoped JR would get it together and become the player that (I thought) he could be.

And I was not surprised at all that he got taken in the first round.

michael anway 2 years, 7 months ago

If Self need another scholarship, Tharpe looks ripe for a readshirt year. He needs to get bigger and stronger if he's going to contribute.

Eric Dawson 2 years, 7 months ago

Redshirting does not free up a scholarship.

Jim Jackson 2 years, 7 months ago

Bill goes after the best players possible. Recruiting is too unpredictable and too competitive to pursue kids that "fit a system".

It's a sales job; you have to after as many prospects as you can, and hope to land a few while missing out on most.

If the Chi town press is giving him that much positive feedback, I would say it is safe to pursue this kid. The writers emphatic about him being a big time talent.

Still,I really hope Anrio is eligible.

Anyone know, if he doesn't sign the NLI by todays deadline, is he ineligible for the year? He can't sign after he gets his ACT score back?

Curtis Stutz 2 years, 7 months ago

Doesn't need to sign an NLI to be eligible to play Pretty hard to imagine he's going to become eligible and then head to a different school, so basically if he gets the scores he's playing for KU next year I don't know that he's ever taken the ACT and failed to get a good score and it would seem like he can take it again in June if he doesn't get the score he needs, so overall there wouldn't seem to be a lot of reason to expect he won't be on the team next year

wildjayhawk 2 years, 7 months ago

He had offers from Nebraska and Colorado, come on, has the Self's recruiting hit that low.

Curtis Stutz 2 years, 7 months ago

Colorado St actually, but who knows what other schools would have been interested had he been available while they still had scholarships to give. Plus getting an offer from anyone is never a bad thing, you could say it's bad that UK isn't offering him, but it's not bad that CSU is.

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