Sunday, May 13, 2012


FSU would benefit Big 12


The thought of Florida State and all its fine football tradition joining the Big 12 took on a realistic feel Saturday when the school’s chairman of the Board of Trustees wound up and socked the ACC in the nose.

Andy Haggard, displeased with the way the new TV contract is structured, let the conference have it in an exclusive interview with

The source of the chairman’s discontent: The ACC surrendered third-tier rights for football to ESPN/ABC, but did not do so for basketball, much to the delight of perennial basketball powerhouses Duke and North Carolina.

“It continues the perception that the ACC favors the North Carolina schools,” Haggard railed to “... It’s mind-boggling and shocking. How can the ACC give up third-tier rights for football, but keep them for basketball?”

Haggard said in the interview he is unaware of any contact between Florida State and the Big 12, but would like that to happen.

“How do you not look into that option?” Haggard said. “On behalf of the Board of Trustees, I can say that unanimously we would be in favor of seeing what the Big 12 might have to offer. We have to do what is in Florida State’s best interest.”

Haggard also put dynamite to the notion that the high academic standing of the ACC makes it too attractive to leave.

“No FSU graduate puts on his resume or interviews for a job saying they are in the same conference as Duke and Virginia,” Haggard said. “Conference affiliation has no impact on academics.”

Many disagree with that, especially university presidents, the very group that started logical conference affiliation on the road to ruin when it took over college sports nearly a quarter-century ago, instead of leaving it in the hands of the experts, the athletic directors.

Bystanders consider Clemson a logical choice to join the Seminoles in fleeing to the Big 12. Louisville has been mentioned often as a Big 12 candidate.

Meanwhile, Rutgers flies beneath the radar, a stealth candidate for Big 12 expansion, one that doesn’t have anywhere near the sex appeal of a Florida State, but does have more appealing attributes than many might think. If the New York area ever tunes into a football program for a sustained period, Rutgers will be that school.

Academically, Rutgers, the state university of New Jersey, has an excellent reputation, which as Haggard said can be a little overrated. Nobody checks the U.S. News and World Reports college rankings before deciding whether to watch a football game.

A Rutgers-Louisville expansion combination makes some sense, but it doesn’t make the conference stronger in the same way as adding Florida Sate, a football juggernaut from a fertile recruiting state. If the Big 12 is lucky, the steam Haggard blew off will turn into action.


DrGraydog 9 years, 6 months ago

I for one would love to see Florida State, Clemson, Louisville, and Rutgers added to the Big 12. Lets get it done

Bangkok_Jayhawk 9 years, 6 months ago

I can't wrap my head around the point of a conference when you can't play every team every year.

90sHawk 9 years, 6 months ago

I completely agree with what you're saying. Only it's clear now that greed is pushing college fball to super conferences at the expense of tradition, geography, etc. It's ridiculous. Given that, I want the Big 12 to survive, and if that means reaching east for more team, so be it.

Vernon Riggs 9 years, 6 months ago

You would play everyone in your division each year and 1/4 of the other division each year. It would take 4 years before you play everyone. FSU would visit Lawrence every eight years.

I almost think that we may want to use a 'zipper' with Rival games format to insure the entire conference more trips to Texas.

DCLawHawk 9 years, 6 months ago

FSU and Rutgers make zero sense to me. Can LJW find out what is in that "study" that undercuts Louisville? That option makes so much more sense to me geographically, culturally (they hate Kentucky as much as we do), and otherwise. Other than Notre Dame or poaching from a power conference (Arkansas, LSU, Iowa, Vandy, etc.), Louisville seems like the most natural fit for the Big 12. It is a great little city, the school has a comparable athletic budget, good facilities, rabid fans, solid basketball history, and decent academics.

LogicMan 9 years, 6 months ago

I too, want U of L in, but this is about football and money. So first some more powerhouse football teams must join, and hopefully a slot will be left for Louisville in the end. Surrounding the SEC, moving in on their prime recruiting turf, and grabbing new TV markets are hopefully becoming our goals.

jayhawkinATL 9 years, 6 months ago

West Virginia is proof that geography is not a factor.

Ethan Berger 9 years, 6 months ago

Pipeline to the state of florida. Big time football recruits.

Steve Gantz 9 years, 6 months ago

Do you really think FSU will help bring Florida recruits to KU? You could be right, but I'm not too sure why.

Ethan Berger 9 years, 6 months ago

Depending on how we get. I think the likely hood of getting middle of the road recruits will be higher. Not much put we could see the jump from 1/2, 4/5. Schools like Texas and OU will see the same jump but instead of middle of the road, they will get the elite. At least that's the way I see it.

bradh 9 years, 6 months ago

Same reason having the Texas schools in the conference help get Texas kids on the team. We'll be playing a Florida school and that makes it easier for their parents and friends to see them in some games.

Hank Cross 9 years, 6 months ago

I don't know that LVille can add enough tv revenue for it to make sense. FSU probably can.

texashawk10 9 years, 6 months ago

Geography now plays 0% of a role in conference expansion. San Diego St. and Boise St. have absolutely no business being the Big East but money talks. Rutgers only makes sense if there is a Big 12 network like the Big 10 network and if Rutgers is team number 13 or 14 because then the Big 12 gets a footprint in NYC. Florida St. is a brand name in football and they clearly have an interest in getting out of the ACC and the SEC has no interest in them which makes the Big 12 their next best option and the Big 12's best option for expansion unless Notre Dame suddenly does a 180 and decides they want in a conference. FSU could pretty much dictate who they want to come with them whether it ends up being Clemson, Miami, Georgia Tech, or Louisville. I don't think we'll hear anything about Big 12 expansion with much credibility until Bob Bowlsby takes over in about a month.

Craig Lang 9 years, 6 months ago

I can't say a lot for Rutgers, but from a football recruiting standpoint, FSU is a great addition. Outside of Texas, Florida traditionally has the best high school football recruits (because of the great high school football programs there). Having FSU in the conference would be an enticement to those recruits who like the idea of playing in their home state every other year.

Hawkword369 9 years, 6 months ago

I could easily transfer the hate I have for Mizzou over to Florida State haha Good article Keegan.

FSUJHAWK 9 years, 6 months ago

I cant...Fizzou is one can replace them. BTW, as half Jayhawk half Seminole I can tell you that Seminoles are and have always been the good guys, before and after Ponce De Leon. it's not easy to hate the good guys.

As for moving to the Big 12, I'm not sure that's going to happen. If FSU goes anywhere it will be the SEC. I think the rant by Haggard is all about advising the SEC that FSU is now seriously interested in joining said conference. For the last two years the SEC and FSU have been flirting but FSU decided to stay committed to the ACC assuming the new television contract would have been a bit more lucrative. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out. As for a KU-FSU match up in anything, well, lets just say two years ago when both schools almost met in the Elite Eight I had to keep the defribillator


tydon27 9 years, 6 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

exiledhawkfan 9 years, 6 months ago

Are YOU stupid? Clemson is in South Carolina...dumbass. Why call names on a message board where you're the fan of the same program as the person you're attacking? Good grief.

dylans 9 years, 6 months ago

The non-revenue producing sports are going to pay big time for all of the increased travel adding these far flung schools. I hope the tv contracts are good enough to keep those programs afloat and doesn't make the increase in up front money a net negative.

dylans 9 years, 6 months ago

But I do love the idea of adding the football program that Bowden built. Thayer probably like the idea of bolting while they can too. I don't know if the new coach can hope to match Bowden's success. The only program ranked in the top 5 for all of the 90's is pretty freaking awesome!

Bonefied 9 years, 6 months ago

just for the record the tv market in Louisville is large, the school is one of the most profitable athletic departments in the country. fla st good argument but Clemson lol please. Louisville will be in the conference and are the best option out there going by money which is there, tv market in major us city which is there and yes it would definitely open up recruiting in KY. Duh. i know the norm is to go get a state flagship school but in this case its rare to see a school carry the name of a city a be such a financial hog. check ya numbers playa

DCLawHawk 9 years, 6 months ago

Exactly. Thank you Bonefied. Louisville is the largest city in KY. The MSA is larger than Oklahoma City, for example. It is much larger than the Clemson or Tallahassee areas. And the bourbon tasting possibilities have to count for something...

itdontmtrtome 9 years, 6 months ago

Well of course they are going to dismiss them or otherwise may be considered tampering. The Big 12 is waiting for Flor St to ask and when that happens watch out.

LogicMan 9 years, 6 months ago

"The Big 12 is waiting for Flor St to ask"

And they have asked! I hope our interim commish will move swiftly on FSU, in consultation with our incoming guy. Today, if not yesterday.

Nick Cole 9 years, 6 months ago

The Big XII does not have an interim commish...

exiledhawkfan 9 years, 6 months ago

Notre Dame football has zero affiliation with or say in Big East football. They have no bearing on the discussion.

Dave Benjamin 9 years, 6 months ago

Good Lord. Did a possibly-drunk Jack Harry hack your account?

ChalmersForTheTie7568 9 years, 6 months ago

Don't jump to the conclusion that UT saying "hell no" (although I'd love to know your source for that nugget) to this is a bad thing. This move would completely destroy any chance of the Big 12 keeping some semblance of geopgraphic homogeneity. This would definitely fit the "electronic footprint" over "geographic footprint" theme though. Think about it from this perspective: if Clemson and FSU are added to the Big 12 the divisions could look like this...

West: OU Okie State UT Tech TCU Baylor

East: KU K-State Iowa State WVU Clemson FSU

Personally (from a traveling fan's perspective), I would like to see the Big 12 stay as close to the I-35 corridor as possible for road trips to Norman, Stillwater, Austin, Ft. Worth, etc. But you can't argue with the money and added football clout FSU and Clemson would give the Big 12. Maybe we can add a few more schools in the east to get to 14, bridge the geographic gap a little, and keep KU in a division with the Texas schools (think recruiting, folks).

Vernon Riggs 9 years, 6 months ago

I think a Zipper format works better. It would insure that all schools travel to Texas once per year. If you add a Rival game it would insure a yearly game with one team in the other division.


Texas OU Kansas Baylor Clemson WVU


Florida State OSU K-State TCU Iowa State Texas Tech

Rivals OU - OSU Kansas - K-State FSU - Clemson Baylor - TCU Texas - Texas Tech Iowa State - WVU

Play each team in your division once per year, Rival play each year, play two teams from the other division once per year for a total of 9 conference games.

Hank Cross 9 years, 6 months ago

Whether we like it or not, MU, NE, A&M and CU had solid reasons for leaving the B12. JHWKDW is right. Bevo never wants to play a FB conference championship again.

hirschtodd 9 years, 6 months ago

NO ONE WATCHES RUTGERS! Trust me. I live in Jersey. Any shot Rutgers had a being relevant is gone. They failed to use the momentum they had after that "high profile" season.

Michael Pannacciulli 9 years, 6 months ago

I agree with my jersey bud Todd (hey Todd its mike p). Now that Schiano is gone Rutgers returns to the cellar also.

Michael Pannacciulli 9 years, 6 months ago

Also it's really disturbing reading Keegan use the term "sex appeal"!

nuleafjhawk 9 years, 6 months ago

“It continues the perception that the ACC favors the North Carolina schools,” Haggard railed to “

The PERCEPTION that the ACC favors the North Carolina schools ?????

Is that like the PERCEPTION that Missouri chokes every year in the NCAA Tournament?

I don't think it's a perception at all - it's a well known fact. Has NC or Duke EVER played an opening weekend in the Tournament more than .............8 miles from their home court? (a slight exaggeration, but not far off).

It's pathetic how blatantly the NCAA (and the media) drool all over themselves to keep the ACC elite happy and piling up the " W's ". And wrong.

rtwngr 9 years, 6 months ago

I agree. When you listen to Dick Vitalis, he slobbers over the North Carolina schools. All of the talking heads slobber over Duke and NC.

Steve Gantz 9 years, 6 months ago

You're talking about the NCAA favoring the NC schools. The FSU guy was talking about the ACC doing it. Two different organizations. I do agree though that these schools seem to get the benefit of the doubt way too often.

Saguaro_Jayhawk 9 years, 6 months ago

None of these schools have any "sex" appeal. Not sure where you're getting your baseline for what is sexual appealing.

april28 9 years, 6 months ago

My guess is that this is all smoke. FSU wants a new ACC contract. They'll probably get it by threatening to leave.

KansasRedLegger 9 years, 6 months ago

Did you read the article? That is why the FSU trustee was so p!ssed - the ACC's new contract that was just finalized.

april28 9 years, 6 months ago

Read further and you'll learn that the trustee doesn't know what he's talking about. It's all bluster.

Read Wetzel on Yahoo and you'll see that Miami and FSU to the Big 12 would be the ideal combo but, with the ACC meetings starting this week, the FSU comments are all about setting the stage.

Ron Prichard 9 years, 6 months ago

I read farther. The entire article doesn't mention anything about the contract not being finalized. Everyone seems to say, "the recent ACC/ESPN contract." That would seem to indicate it is finalized. Is there something I'm missing, too?

Ron Prichard 9 years, 6 months ago

Also, here is the official statement from the ACC. It sounds very much like a done deal to me.

Spencer Goff 9 years, 6 months ago

Entirely possible it is all smoke and mirrors, but entirely plausible it could start a fire. From what I can tell the contract is official, as it was reported by Forbes last week before FSU threw gasoline on the fire. I find it funny that Forbes Magazine wondered if the ACC got ripped off back then...

Here is where they officially stand:

The ACC has denied giving any special consideration to third tier basketball rights, a bold statement considering they won't allow the contract details to be public. Of course the All Carolina Conference would say that...

Haggard has said he apologizes if anything he said was in error, but does not apologize for the sentiment of the statements. He basically was "advised" to say what he said just "in a more respectable manner" and with far less spittle.

Florida State says the are committed to the ACC. Sure...

So it sounds like the deal is final, but what the deal actually entails neither the ACC nor ESPN will confirm outside of "denials of favoritism," and Florida State isn't about to pump the brakes on making it known they are looking but not "really" looking.

getserious 9 years, 6 months ago

Louisville and Cincinatti are the only two that make sense. Geographically makes the most sense, also gives West Virginia two schools nearby to have rivals with. Both football teams go to bowl games wvery year and both are great in Basketball. FSU and Clemson in the Big 12 makes about as much sense as Mizzou in the SEC. Just stupid thinking really.

dylans 9 years, 6 months ago

Geographically cincy works a little better, but the thug mentality that prevails and that perception really turns me off of cincy. Ever since Huggins was recruiting thugs I've disliked cincy and it seems the quality of character of the basketball team hasn't impreoved any in light of recent on court actions.

Ethan Berger 9 years, 6 months ago

Remember its a what can you do for me thing. Sec needed a direct pipeline to Texas and the Midwest and got it. Now the big 12 can get a pipe line to Florida.

John Mueller 9 years, 6 months ago

Tydon must have gotten a dear John letter, err txt, last night.....

Damn, son put down the java.

But, anyway, I agree that FSU is much more attractive than Lville.

I mean, it's not even close.

Great football tradition, brings some tv sets and don't forget, Leonard Hamilton can coach some ball.

I'm inclined to agree with April, (love it when we are gender inclusive!), it's probably leverage, but FSU is the best add other than ND which is gonna happen when I wake up next to Jennifer Anniston with a wine glass in my hand...

Btw, gender remark is sarcasm for all you posters who didn't actually live on the Mt.

John Mueller 9 years, 6 months ago

Dear Maxwell smart, Mizzou IS in the SEC.

Intelligent design left the building about an hour ago.

If you run fast you can still see the Big 8 logo on Sat game of the week with Jay Randolph and Gary greasy hair from Iowa st.

Bonefied 9 years, 6 months ago

all i know is with the right additions the big twelve could become hands down the best conference in revenue sports. for a conference i feel is a close second to the sec in football could strengthen in both football and basketball and corner the whole market. try adding Louisville with its rich basketball tradition and a football program on the rise, Cincy and they basketball tradition and just made a bcs appearance, take fla st(sorry but big12 can pay more than acc) and there rich football tradition, and notre dame and open them up to the texas recruits with they rich football tradition, oh and trust they will be looking for a home comer 2014 or sooner if they are smart, and the big12 becomes the strongest conference hands down

rob4lb 9 years, 6 months ago

Interesting development. I cannot see expansion unless it is a 'big boy' like Florida State. Louisville adds nothing and would dilute the package. Florida State is a game changer. Add another school and the conference has a nice footprint on the east coast.

Bonefied 9 years, 6 months ago

get ya numbers right bruh, Louisville brings a total athletic program and a basketball program that generates more money than more than half of the current big 12 members do in from football. fla st hasnt won anything in anything recently, although it would be hard to say what their athletic department brings in.

rob4lb 9 years, 6 months ago

It not about the success of the athletic programs finances. If that were the case, everyone would clamoring for K-State which turned a $20M profit.

You need to get your numbers straight and explain how adding Louisville would result in ESPN-Fox adding over $260M to the current 13 year TV package which is what would be needed just to break even. Louisville might be the most popular team in Louisville but not in Kentucky. Kentucky is not that big of a state. The basketball team is good, but this is not about basketball.

Bonefied 9 years, 6 months ago

Brand name. you talking about 20 million profit? K-state? You have to be joking right? This is about tv sets which generate money. Louisville whether you know it or not is a national brand in college athletics. Lol i promise I'm not the only one saying this and its also coming from people that has more inside information than you or me. but i have saw numbers in black and white and the truth is there is only a small percentage of schools currently in the big 12 that are comparable from a financial standpoint. you just watch and see. btw who is your team? pause.......... i have a feeling this could be funny lol

Ethan Berger 9 years, 6 months ago

Two words. Bobby Bowden. Another 2 words. National Champs. FSU has won in football, and FSU makes more in football than UL makes in Football and basketball combined.

Robert Brown 9 years, 6 months ago

You may not read this, but yes, K-State's athletic department was one of the most profitable in the country. Louisville is a national basketball brand like KU and we all know that national basketball brands mean very little in the area of conference realignment.

Pitthawk34 9 years, 6 months ago

kstate 20 profit, is due to being cheap. When a AD tells the football team that they can choose to either fly to Oklahoma eiher before or after the game but then have to take a bus for the other half...if cheap as hell.

Bonefied 9 years, 6 months ago

when in the 90s?? its 2012 Playa? what have you done for me lately? when was they last bcs appearance much less bcs win? Bobby or his son? people forget that old stuff

Bonefied 9 years, 6 months ago

only ou, ku, tt, ut profit more $ than ul of current big 12 members. dilute is a strong word, especially when you know not what you speak of smh

Ron Prichard 9 years, 6 months ago

What kind of money/profit are you talking about? Seriously, I would like some actual numbers and not insults. Those saying FSU is a game changer but Louisville is not are basing the argument on national perception. It's also based on the fact that FSU is right in the middle of Florida and prized SEC country. These are both solid arguments. If you can show me actual numbers or at least a "source" that says Louisville is more valuable, then fine. And keep in mind, we aren't talking the amount of "profit" the athletic department made. We are talking about the gross revenues and national appeal/footprint. I don't care about what Louisville makes, I want to know what they can do for KU and the Big XII.

Bonefied 9 years, 6 months ago

you can google it yourself cause i don't have a link. no insults just facts. you have to realize that it is not the 80s or 90s anymore. you are talking about a program that stays in a financial hole and hasn't won anything in over a decade. remember those fsu-uf or fsu-miami games that use to draw the big tv ratings that nobody pays attention to anymore? BECAUSE THEY ARE BORDERLINE IRRELIVANT! if they still has the national buzz they once had they would not be 2million in the hole right now with there athletic budget. the fsu brand just isn't what it once was. i live in baton rouge dead smack in sec country and it is not rare to see Louisville paraphernalia. no fsu which is allot closer in proximity. i can't argue the recruiting ground but outside of that what does fsu really bring? ooh and with an ego that size do you really think they could respect what ut has going on in the big 12 huhm..... it could get messy cause they obviously are trying to bulky the acc now buti don't feel you have that right when you haven't won afreakin conference championship in over a decade. I'm just saying....... its 2012 let's go cardnation, we cant wait to see ku in big 12 championship. here we go

Chris1955 9 years, 6 months ago

Conference Realignment Infinity……“Follow the ultimate money!” Part 1

I’m going to offer for your review, what I see as the final future of College Football realignment. This may 20 years or more in the future, who knows? Better strap on your safety glasses, you’ll need them by the time you’re finished.

What are the absolutes that we know to be true in this entire on-going, ever churning fiasco? MONEY! Specifically, TV money! What else do we know? The NCAA is a monopoly. What does this lead to? It leads to both parties figuring out how to split the pie. What else do we know? The NCAA March Madness tournament is wildly popular and very lucrative. It is so lucrative that there are now 4 four TV networks involved, instead of the helter-skelter old format where CBS jumped around from game to game.

How many major conferences? How many teams per conference? Which teams participate in which conferences?

Where is he going with this? Here where I think this will ultimately end. Let’s start with numbers of participants. There has been speculation as to how many universities get to be in the BCS conferences, 64 or 80, or some other number. I’ll choose 80; however, 64 would work as well. Let’s say that the NCAA will dictate the number of teams that each conference would be allowed to have. With 80 teams, you could have 8 conferences of 10 universities; or, 10 conferences of 8 universities. I’ll go with the 8 conferences of 10 schools. Assuming that the regular college football season remains a 12 game season, you would play 9 in-conference games, with 3 non-conference games. You can keep the names of existing conferences, or create new ones, or use letter designations like world cup soccer (Group A, etc.). Let’s also assume that there will be a Division I college football playoff system (Thank God!).

Now, the first and second place finishers of each of the 8 conferences qualify for a playoff spot. Each of the 8 conferences would have a partner, or alliance partner conference. One of the non-conference games would have to be played with a team of the alliance partner conference. The playoffs would begin with the number 1 team of the allied conferences playing the number 2 team of its alliance conference partner. The alliance conference partners would change every two years. For example, Conference A has conference B as their alliance conference for 2 years. Then A has conference C for two years. Think of how the NFL treats the inter-conference games each year, except in this case there is a two year marriage.

Chris1955 9 years, 6 months ago

Conference Realignment Infinity……“Follow the ultimate money!” Part 2

Now enters the sizzle of marketing into the picture. After 1 team is left standing representing each of the 8 conferences, the names of the universities are put into a fish bowl, and the President of the NCAA holds a selection Sunday night. The NCAA President draws the teams at random and the next round of playoff game opponents is created. This is repeated when the final four teams are left standing. The Championship game is played in early January before the 2nd semester begins.

Now, here’s where things potentially get crazy. The university at the bottom of each conference loses its spot in the conference for the next season and a replacement university from a non-BCS conference is slated to replace it. This happens each year. The replacement universities are placed in the closest conference from a geographical split perspective.

This accomplished several things. It forces teams to take their football program seriously. It provides a mechanism which permits conferences from being saddled with the perennial dog crap football teams (i.e. Duke, Indiana, Syracuse, Washington State, etc.). It also allows hope for those fringe teams of getting into a BCS conference.

In summary, TV revenue gets crazy hence the “ultimate money” claim.

Andy Tweedy 9 years, 6 months ago

I have never been a Keegan fan. It's not that I don't like him personally, but his style drives me crazy. But I've noticed over the last couple years that he does seem to get a few things right. I'm sure he gets a number of things wrong, too, but I notice the things he gets right because it solicits the "DAMMIT! Keegan got that right" response from me. So when I saw this headline, I couldn't help but to think "Holy crap, I'm gonna have to roadie to Tallahassee!"

Martin Rosenblum 9 years, 6 months ago

Cowboys and Indians!

What a natural, the mascots and themes of schools like Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas and Florida State would be perfect. Who cares about the competetion within each sport?

Casey Gee 9 years, 6 months ago

Now I want to know what Virginia Tech is thinking. They can't just sit back and watch their conference die without taking some action. Do you think they might come into play as the rumors escalate.

Spencer Goff 9 years, 6 months ago

Virginia and Virginia Tech are the big rivalry. Virginia actually is the reason the Hokies got into the ACC as the "other."

I'm sure a football rivalry would develop if they played in the same league and are very close geographically, but to answer your question, their "main" rivalry right now is their in-state rival UVA.

Ben Kane 9 years, 6 months ago

um actually i can assure you as a VT alum that wvu is a big rivalry. true the true hatred is toward the wahoo but think of the rivalry as ku does toward kstate compared to mizery.

Spencer Goff 9 years, 6 months ago

They haven't played WVU in football since 2005. Your rivalry died going on a decade ago, just like Mizzou/Kansas did in 2012.

Ben Kane 9 years, 6 months ago

true, but my point is that they would have no trouble rekindling that rivalry and would not be building a rivalry from scratch as you suggested.

Spencer Goff 9 years, 6 months ago

Where in my original post did you read "from scratch?" Would you feel more comfortable if I said "re-develop?" Look, the rivalry is dead unless some conference comes in and performs CPR.

Is it possible VT ends up in the Big 12? Sure. Why? Because the ACC is a marked target that just increased their bullseye. But if possible, VT and UVA go to the same conference as a package deal (which likely rules out the Big 1G).

Spencer Goff 9 years, 6 months ago

Has there been any public response to this interview from the ACC?

Something that obvious in building rhetoric for leaving from a person in his position I would think the ACC would at least move.

Brian Skelly 9 years, 6 months ago

Not since the BOT guy spouted off, no. Of course its the weekend and my guess a likely 'response' to that will be early next week.

Regardless of whats said or done, the one thing that seems clear to me is that the ACC's "Deal" for TV isnt in anyway shape or form going to compete with the Big 12's, much less the SECs when they redo theirs (2 years from now I think)... or the Big 10s or Pac-12s.

Is this enough to really get the ball rolling on this? Im not as convinced as everyone else, but its clear from this guys response that there are people in relative power who are going to push things here. We'll see.

Spencer Goff 9 years, 6 months ago

I think it is, I just think they are going to wait for the four-team playoff deal to be decided. Once that is a go I think they will make their move.

The one thing I worry about stopping it is if the SEC steps in and takes them and Clemson if for nothing other than to keep the Big 12 out of "their" country.

That would require a couple schools to suck it up, but it is not completely impossible.

But to reiterate, I fully believe Florida State and Clemson are shopping the market right now. This guys feelings are hardly a single guy blowing off steam.

Brian Skelly 9 years, 6 months ago

From what I understand (2nd hand source - great friend who is an 'active' UF alum) is that there is no way in @#%$ that UF or USoCar will ever let Clemson or FSU in. No chance. Not. A. Chance.

That said, as I pointed out before, VaTech and UVA had their little issues as well -- for decades on end. So I guess it COULD happen. But it certainly will not happen anytime soon and certainly not on an forced timeline in regards to them and another conference.

I agree that trying to keep folks out of their 'territory' has merit. But how is that really any different than things are now? Could they be motivated a bit more if they felt threatened. I'd guess. But its hard to swing a position ones had for decades (if not longer) over in a matter of months.

My guess is FSU is truly ripe for the picking. All the other options bantered about dont seem to have the "smoke/fire" that this FSU thing does. But im quite sure if the Big 12 / FSU starts the ball rolling on this, there will be a "partner" coming along with them.

Spencer Goff 9 years, 6 months ago

I agree full on, I think the only way Florida or South Carolina go with the add is if they are forced by the other SEC members, citing a necessity to keep the Big 12 out of their foothold.

Everything you are saying is exactly what I feel. And yep, I think both Florida State and Clemson are ready to fly.

Spencer Goff 9 years, 6 months ago

First, I would love to see the All Carolina Conference's favoritism finally bite them in the ass.

And for you folks that may not want Florida State in your conference...

I offer exhibit A:

First, the obvious three hotties (Jenn Sterger in the center), but read the shirt on the guy to their left. The double D's on the screen made the FCC forget to censor for awhile.

Robert Brown 9 years, 6 months ago

If this and the new BCS rules are the precursor to FOUR 16 team superconferences as has been predicted for sometime, it looks like the Big 12 will make the cut as one of the Big Four. That was not apparent just a year ago.

Spencer Goff 9 years, 6 months ago

It's amazing what can happen when the remaining members want to survive, and they fire the idiot in charge....

John Fitzgerald 9 years, 6 months ago

Best case scenario (in my opinion):


KU KSU OSU WVU Louisville Iowa St


OU Texas Tech TCU FSU Baylor

In my opinion, this scenario would fit best for basketball and football. It would open up additional recruiting opportunities for football, and add a couple big time basketball programs to the mix. Clemson just hasn't been consistent in basketball for football lately, so I don't see the benefit. I'd rather have Louisville, who can add some more talent and beef to the big 12. Just my thoughts, yall!

LogicMan 9 years, 6 months ago

FSU would want to be in the north, or they likely wouldn't join. They'd take the place of the Nebraska of old.

OU and OSU wouldn't be split, either.

Renaming the divisions South-West and North-East would make some geographic sense. And if we go to 16, Southwest, Northwest, Northeast, and Southeast, although the SEC would have a hissyfit on that last one.

John Fitzgerald 9 years, 6 months ago

And you are? .... Big 12 commissioner? Lol I love how you speak for the other teams. I give an opinion and you act as the AD of all the schools and make wild assumptions. Pure genius!!! You must win at life everyday.

LogicMan 9 years, 6 months ago

Just repeating what has been debated by many on various sites for months now.

John Fitzgerald 9 years, 6 months ago

Maybe you should start out "I heard" instead of going on like you "know" what they want and need. Big difference cowboy. I expected an intelligent response so I could better my knowledge about the situation but now you've only made everyone in this message board even dumber. Thanks for the information though.

Spencer Goff 9 years, 6 months ago

I get the advantage of playing in the North as far as wins/losses, but I'm not so sure that is the card they want to play.

Compare that to playing in the South, where you get Primetime-football-made-for-TV matchups against UT, OU, and TCU every year (best three for TV exposure in current North is WVU and...). Plus the occasional decent season from OSU, coupled with Baylor before they finally get nailed for serious recruiting violations and have to shut the campus down.

Not saying you are wrong, just saying I can see it either way, and I'm not ready to write off FSU in the South. It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds.

I'm also not ready to write off a 16 conference that uses four bracket pods and we have our own four team playoff that determines conference champ. How awesome would THAT be!?!!

John Fitzgerald 9 years, 6 months ago

That would be exactly what the big 12 needs! But we will see how it all unfolds.

Vernon Riggs 9 years, 6 months ago

I think a Zipper format works better. It would insure that all schools travel to Texas once per year. If you add a Rival game it would insure a yearly game with one team in the other division.


Texas OU Kansas Baylor Clemson WVU


Florida State OSU K-State TCU Iowa State Texas Tech

Rivals OU - OSU Kansas - K-State FSU - Clemson Baylor - TCU Texas - Texas Tech Iowa State - WVU

Play each team in your division once per year, Rival play each year, play two teams from the other division once per year for a total of 9 conference games.

Brian Skelly 9 years, 6 months ago

I personally think we're going to 16. Or at least the building blocks to go to 16 are going to be made here. Otherwise, my guess is they'll stick to 10 unless they feel they can 'bridge' to something bigger and better.

Remember folks, we were going to end up in the Mountain West and now we're going to end up in likely the 2nd strongest (revenue-wise) conference for at least the next 13 years. And my guess is IF we had some of these other big fish -- both the $$$ and years tacked on to the back end will be there.

402nate 9 years, 6 months ago

Here's the deal. You don't go from "shaky conference" status to "predator conference" status in the blink of an eye. The worst thing the big 12 can do right now is overplay their hand and get rejected by Notre Dame. This would set the Big 12 back tremendously, and create a perception of instability that would haunt them over the next 5 years in their attempt to solidify their conference. The key is to parlay the forward momentum we've received with the TCU/WVU/Bowlsby/ESPN into more momentum with a couple of "gettable" teams that are nice brand names, and who create EVEN MORE momentum for the conference. At some point, Notre Dame will feel the pressure to join or be left out forever, and that's when you strike! If I were Bowlsby, I would employ the following strategy:

2012: Invitations are sent to FSU/Clemson. Both will likely say yes, and the timing is perfect, given these programs displeasure with the ACC and the financial concerns of FSU. Now you have a power conference that rivals the SEC. The Big 12 has a 6 team Northern Division (OU, OSU, KU, KSU, ISU, WVU) and a 6 team Southern division (TX, TT, TCU, BAY, FSU, CU)

2013: Invitations are sent to Ga Tech/Va Tech. The Big 12 will be tempted to stay at 12, with such a solid core group of teams. But the time to strike is now, as momentum is a fleeting thing. This move will solidify the eastern seaboard and provide FSU, Clemson, and WVU with travel partners. The Big 12 is officially the Big 14 now, with VT joining the North, and GT joining the south.

  1. The final masterstroke. Invitations are sent to Notre Dame/NC State. This genius act will complete the creation of the first 16-team power conference with an unbelievable footprint, football history, power, and prestige. ND will brige the ISU-WVU gap, and NC State bridge the Clemson-VT gap.

The Big 16 remains innovative and aggressive, becoming the first conference to switch to pods. This makes a 9-game football schedule a cinch. Round Robin will be played within each pod (3 games), plus each team will play 2 rotating games in the remaining 3 pods (6 games). This will set up the Big 16 Final Four on home sites, with the championship in Dallas. Prediction: All other conferences will follow this model in due time, essentially creating a 16-team national playoff. (4 playoff games within conference, then the "plus one" on a national stage). The Big 16 would look like this:

CENTRAL (aka the Big 8 pod):

Kansas Kansas St. Oklahoma Oklahoma St.

SOUTHWEST (aka the SWC pod):

Texas Texas Tech Baylor TCU

SOUTH (aka the ACC pod):

NC State Clemson Georgia Tech Florida St.

NORTH (aka the leftovers pod):

Notre Dame West Virginia Virginia Tech Iowa St.

Get 'er done Bowlsby. The clock is ticking...

John Fitzgerald 9 years, 6 months ago

Would be awesome, although highly impropable. Lets hope for the best though!

Vernon Riggs 9 years, 6 months ago

Putting all the Texas teams in one pod, limits the trips to Texas for the non-Texas schools. Trips to Texas is a big plus of joining the Big12. Plus, Texas and OU not playing each year will be a deal killer. Mix up the Pods and / or a Rival game is the answer.

Brian Skelly 9 years, 6 months ago

I like the idea 402. Id mention that I dont think ANY rejection will take place simply because there will be NO offer unless the answer to the question will be 'yes'. All this is going to be done by back channel stuff and will only trickle into light after the press conference is set up.

My 16 replaces Louisville with VaTech and Miami for NCState... but otherwise I think your on to something. I do believe the building blocks to "move up" are being set now.

402nate 9 years, 6 months ago

I also forgot to mention that with this pod set up, basketball scheduling would be ideal as well. (an important point for us forgotten basketball fans out there) Home-and-home could be played within pods (6 games), in addition to round robin against all remaining teams (12), for an 18 game schedule. Nice, eh?

The television contract a Big 16 consisting of the aforementioned teams could command would be ridiculous. Plus, recruiting would be like shooting fish in a barrel (Texas, Florida, and the deep south...geepers!)

You could definitely make the case for L'ville and Miami. But Va Tech has got to be at the top of everyone's list, outside of ND and FSU. Of the four teams you mentioned, I'd rank 'em as follows:

  1. VaTech
  2. Miami 3a. NC State 3b. L'Ville

LogicMan 9 years, 6 months ago

Many on the boards, over the last couple of months, have predicted that the SEC will jump in as soon as the ACC dominoes start to fall. Most predict that NC State and VaTech will be the SEC's targets to get to 16, and to add new geographic turf. Some are expecting the B1G to go after at least a couple schools too with NC, UMd, and GTech mentioned most. What's left of the ACC will then merge with some or all of the Big East, possibly as a nonfootball conference. The $20 million ACC exit fee, each, is huge, so maybe the ACC is facing what we were -- a potential dissolution vote.

Jim Burns 9 years, 6 months ago

This wouldn't be the first attempt at a 16 team pod set up. The WAC did it when they expanded to 16 years ago. They only tried it for a year or two and I don't think the scheduling was the problem when they broke back into two conferences (Mountain West and WAC).

baldwinjhawk 9 years, 6 months ago

Remember, any school that wants to join the big XII has to approach us. If not then we are in legal trouble. That's why it was so important for Haggard who is Chairman of the board of trustees to say that Florida State would of course be exploring what the big XII has to offer. He is a guy that can make that call!

mikehawk 9 years, 6 months ago

More and more it looks like geographic, historical, and cultural considerations may not matter. I still think the four, sixteen conference pattern has legs in the minds of the AD's and big donors, and this maintains musical chairs as the name of the game. At least for now, and for a change, if our ten schools will hang together, then no one hangs separately. The gravitas of Texas and Oklahoma (and the alleged new lucrative contract) in football begins to create a magnate to attract other schools, thus potentially growing the Big 12 rather than creating its demise. I hate the whole process, but if it has to happen, I would rather be in the game from a postion of strength, than from one of weakness we all know too well. The wildcard, as usual, is Texas. Will they only operate from a what's best for them, or will they maintain the "let's do what is best for the conference?" Here we go again. We'll know soon. I guess summer is so boring waiting for football, there is nothing left to do but play "I'm leaving my marriage for the hottie in the next town."

jgkojak 9 years, 6 months ago

For those of you questioning FSU - do you remember how it felt when it looked like the B12 was going and KS may end up in the Big ? And how much better off we are today?

Like it or not- the B12 needs to get to 12 or 14, and needs to have among that number one more powerhouse -- that would be either Notre Dame (not happening) or FSU --

FSU simply guarantees that the B12 is conf #4 and the ACC is conf #5. Period.

I am guessing that VA TCH and NCST end up in the SEC, that MD and VA end up in the Big 10 and that we get FSU, Clemson, then Louisville and either Pitt, Ga Tech or Miami.

Robert Brown 9 years, 6 months ago

You are essentially predicting the break up of the ACC. Big 12 beats ACC to become the 4th conference. There are a lot of strong academic schools in populated areas that would be of interest if the Big 10 was forced to expand: UVa, UNC, MD, Georgia Tech and Duke are all AAU schools. My guess is that if Notre Dame is forced to join a conference, they will eventually choose the Big 10, which would leave three openings to get to 16 schools. The Big 12 and SEC could pick up some of the remaining strong ACC schools.

I suspect the Florida State to Big 12 rumors will die over the next few weeks.

Jim Jackson 9 years, 6 months ago

Can the ACC stll restructure their contract to help keep FSU or is it already in place? Does anyone know? Maybe FSU is just trying to leverage their position?

Brian Skelly 9 years, 6 months ago

Leverage is a big part. But as far as I know the ACC deal is done. They maybe trying to join the SEC too of course -- not an unlikely concept, but UF wont go for it. I dont think much can be dont on the ACCs end with this right now.

Vernon Riggs 9 years, 6 months ago

The ACC deal is done. If they come back to the table to get the Tier 3 rights back then they have to give something up ($). The SEC angle is interesting. The SEC may not want Texas and OU to have a recruiting pipeline into Florida. The Uof F may decide that they do not want a FSU Network throughout Florida. It may open the door to FSU to the SEC.

Brian Skelly 9 years, 6 months ago

I dont. Why? Because by the Big 12's "granting of media rights" for the next THIRTEEN YEARS it has at least assured itself of it being around that long. If im correct, only the Big 10 has such a clause (its for 20-25 thanks to the Big 10 network).

The ACC doesnt have this and clearly people in FSU country are peeved with the new deal its signed off on. I dont even think this means the Big 12 is 'getting' FSU, but its clear that either the ACC is going to pony up some way, some how or FSU is going to be looking elsewhere.

The media rights granting (13years), the dollars per year (20mil - the highest baseline including the SEC currently (which will pass us on their next go around with CBS)), the escalator clauses (1.5mil - 2.5mil for each team per year if other teams are added) and Bowlsby's "electronic footprint" comments tell me that the FSU to Big 12 rumors will not die over the next few weeks.

Again, not saying they're coming here. I just think odds are good they'll be some movement a foot here once the new BCS / 4 team playoff stuff gets squared away. At least temporarily. Then the insanity begins!!!

Joseph Kuebel 9 years, 6 months ago

+1000. From what I have read this seems to be as accurate as a post I have read of all comments. I agree with all you have said, although I will say that I am cautiously optimistic.

Brian Skelly 9 years, 6 months ago

Thanks Cali. My info could be wrong, but with those things in mind it just seems like the Big 12 is 'set up' to be the hunter and not the hunted for a long while now.

My guess is as well that IF we snag a big fish (FSU being a big fish), other schools will start to inquire.

It will be an interesting summer. Im sure it'll be posts and links galore here at ! ! !

402nate 9 years, 6 months ago

I still say the following set-up is possible, not necessarily probable, but possible, by 2015. (I added L'ville and Miami in lieu of VT and NCST). I can't see any new addition on this list being unlikely, other than Notre Dame. (see my post above on how to best go about attaining ND as an addition to the big 12).

Big XVI Central (aka the Big 8 pod):

Kansas Kansas St. Oklahoma Oklahoma St.

Big XVI West (aka the SWC pod):

Texas Texas Tech Baylor Texas Chrisitan

Big XVI South (aka the ACC pod):

Miami Clemson Georgia Tech Florida St.

Big XVI North (aka the Big East pod):

Notre Dame West Virginia Louisville Iowa St.

LogicMan 9 years, 6 months ago

Yes, possible. And what a powerful, entertaining football conference it would be! Please make it so, Misters Neinas and Bowlsby!

milwaukeeJAYHAWK 9 years, 6 months ago

I HATE HATE HATE realignment and the destruction of traditional/geographic rivalries and the old Big 12....

....that being said. It's eat or be eaten now. Let's go get some good teams and forestall future calamity.

Nobody wants to be the next Big East....

LogicMan 9 years, 6 months ago

"No one" is a bit extreme, but yes, pro sports, Syracuse, etc. do get more interest there.

Rutgers' athletics program is in financial trouble, I read. And their state too. So they have a deep hole that they need to climb out of before they become attractive to the B1G, for example. The ACC-2/4/6/8 might be interested as-is, though.

Besides winning, any ideas for Rutgers? A name change, to start? Their subtitle is already "The University of New Jersey".

Randy Bombardier 9 years, 6 months ago

Rutgers, no, but Princeton I'd take. Seriously the timing is awful but opportunity presents itself. I don't think that expansion is necessary but on the other hand like a few have said it is either we be the hunted or the prey. As long as this agenda is being pushed we may have no choice. I like FSU, Clemson and GaTech. Not sure about Miami. I think Louisville or of course ND if possible.

LogicMan 9 years, 6 months ago

Anyone know if the U of L has or is building up funds for a WVU-like buyout from the Big East? Being able to start Big 12 play sooner, instead of later, should improve their chances of getting the call if any of the bigger name schools drag their heels.

If they do have the money banked, they need to publicly announce it posthaste.

Spencer Goff 9 years, 6 months ago

So some author managed to take two sentences from Dodds, a reply to a question that was posed to him, and turn it into a power struggle for conference control.

Yeah, it is disconcerting that somebody pays that author.

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