Sunday, March 25, 2012

Roy Williams, Tar Heels hurting after loss to Kansas

North Carolina head coach Roy Williams watches late in the second half on Sunday,  March 25, 2012 at the Edward Jones Dome in St. Louis.

North Carolina head coach Roy Williams watches late in the second half on Sunday, March 25, 2012 at the Edward Jones Dome in St. Louis.


— North Carolina men's basketball coach Roy Williams had been in this position before. More times than he would care to count, in fact.

But this time was a little different. Instead of crying alone at the podium after another heartbreaking NCAA Tournament loss, the always-emotional and ever-sappy Williams had company following Sunday's 80-67, Elite Eight loss to Kansas University at the Edward Jones Dome.

His name was Stilman White, Carolina's freshman point guard who never in his wildest dreams imagined he would be playing this kind of role on this kind of night. And White's tears flowed just as hard as his head coach's.

"It hurts," said the UNC guard, who was forced to start back-to-back games because of a wrist injury to sophomore Kendall Marshall. "This was a great team and we had great goals and it doesn't feel like we quite achieved them. But we played as hard as we could and just came up a little bit short."

Williams said after the game he thought Marshall would be able to go.

"(On Saturday) I thought he was (going to play)," Williams said. "And I really got a little excited at that point."

But Marshall donned a dark suit instead of Carolina's argyle uniform on Sunday and that gave Kansas' guards the freedom to outshine UNC's backcourt 32-9 in points, 6-1 in steals and 10-9 in assists.

That advantage proved huge in the outcome, as the big men for both sides put on one heck of a show.

KU junior Thomas Robinson finished with 18 points and nine rebounds and center Jeff Withey added 15 and eight. For the Tar Heels (32-6), James Michael McAdoo (15), Tyler Zeller (12) John Henson (10) all reached double digits, but the KU bigs out-rebounded UNC's towers, 25-14 and 41-35 as a team.

"This is the most disappointing feeling I've ever had in my life," McAdoo said. "It really hasn't hit quite yet. It hurts a lot ... It's the end. It's over. It kills me on the inside."

Throughout his 24 seasons as a head coach — 15 at Kansas and now nine at UNC — Williams has become known for his outpouring of emotions in the postseason. After all but two of those seasons, Williams capped off the year on a podium trying to articulate why his team lost while at the same time explaining the reason for his tears. He did it again Sunday.

"Yes, I'll play (Sunday's loss) over for a long time," Williams said. "I'll say, 'What if,' for a long time. But we still had a chance. We just didn't play as well as we needed to play."

Kansas did, and Williams was more than happy to praise the Jayhawks for that.

"Give Kansas credit for guarding us better," he said. "I think that the emotions the last four minutes or something like that, I think that took over a little bit, too. Kendall's a security blanket and he's trying to coach on the bench. But he's a lot better player than he is a coach. And please don't try to take that as I'm saying that's the only reason we lost the game. It's just that we did panic and (KU's) Elijah (Johnson) made a big shot."

That shot, a three-pointer with the shot clock winding down and 3:07 to play, put KU (31-6) up by four points and sparked a 12-0 Kansas run to close the game.

"You have to congratulate Kansas and wish them good luck," Williams said. "Because it was a great basketball game for about 34, 35 minutes. And the last four or five minutes, they played much, much better than we did, and their coach coached much better than I did. It was a game of runs, and we didn't answer the last one."


Pitthawk34 8 years, 4 months ago

I would buy Roy a beer any day of the week.

KJD 8 years, 4 months ago

You gotta love Roy Williams. He's a class act and a brilliant coach. He always has the best words for the Kansas Jayhawks. He is so much apart of Kansas tradition and now he is a big part of Bill Self's first two Final Fours. I hope Roy wins more titles before he's all done. Just seeing all of those former Jayhawks on the Carolina bench, I can't help but root for Carolina blue when they are not playing the Hawks.

skijamin 8 years, 4 months ago

Could never root for Carolina. or Mizzou. or Duke. or Kentucky.....

John Hamm 8 years, 4 months ago

Any head coach that would root for the team that knocked him out of contention is a great man and I'd buy him a beer any day!

dylans 8 years, 4 months ago

It's just classy and smart. If you bad mouth the team that just beat you, then why did you let them win? You want the team that knocked you out to go on to win the title making you possibly the second best team.

Alohahawk 8 years, 4 months ago

Except if it were Mizzery (which will never happen), and any Cal Lie Pari team.

John Randall 8 years, 4 months ago

And that is your fault, not theirs.

They deserve credit for their efforts, just like the Jayhawks do.

It's kind of pathetic to brag on your own myopia when euphoria should rule the day.

Vernon Riggs 8 years, 4 months ago

Carolina and Kentucky is part of the Kansas - Phog Allen Basketball Coaching Tree. Carolina plays in an Arena named after a man who grew up in Topeka (KS) and played at Kansas. Kentucky plays it's games in a building named after a former Kansas player who grew up in Halstead (KS). Every success they have in their program is because of Kansas Basketball. It's okay to root for the Tar Heels and the UK Cats when they are not playing the Hawks. Trust me I will be rooting for the Cats when they play MethZoo twice a year. Roy learned from Coach Smith, who learned the game from Coach Allen. He did very good while he was in Lawrence. Let him wear his KU Sticker with pride on Saturday and Monday in NOLA.

Jesse Johnson 8 years, 4 months ago

I agree Roy Williams is a classy guy and I don't harbor any ill feelings towards him anymore for bolting to UNC (although I still wish he had won us a championship or two before he left). But I just can't root for UNC to succeed because we are in competition with them for winningest program in basketball! Thanks to their miserable 2010 season we passed them, so I was glad they did poorly that year :)

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 4 months ago

I agree KJD. Well stated indeed.

Roy Williams is all heart and all class. But I'm still so glad that we have Bill Self instead.

But I have to stick you for a key typo. "He is so much apart of Kansas tradition and now he is a big part of Bill Self's first two Final Fours."

I believe that you meant to say "a part". Totally changed the meaning.

OmaHawk88 8 years, 4 months ago

Great job by the Jayhawks and especially Self for changing up the defense and taking UNC out of its rhythm in the second half.

Roy Williams is and always has been pure class. I loved him as KU's coach and I will always have high praise for him as a college basketball coach. That said, we are so fortunate to continue our winning tradition with Bill Self and the incredible job he has done with this year's team. He has been able to get everyone to buy in and he just knows what to do to win.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk Go KU!! See you in New Orleans!!

Dennis Mahorney 8 years, 4 months ago

Blocked by Withey! Blocked by Withey! Blocked by Withey!

John Randall 8 years, 4 months ago

Do you think that's how the Tarheels felt about things?

I'm reminded of Bill Russell saying, "If I block 5% of your shots, you shouldn't worry. If I block 95% of the ones I go after, you start to think about it."

toppal 8 years, 4 months ago

I've been jawhawk for 55 years. Have never been prouder than I have this year! Go hawks!!!

John Randall 8 years, 4 months ago

I agree wholeheartedly. Since I matriculated on The Hill (1958), there have been a dozen or two of teams so great you had to stand in awe. These guys grab you by the heart and the gonads to take you along with them.

dylans 8 years, 4 months ago

I would feel sorry for Roy under any other circumstance, but our Jayhawks won and I couldn't be happier. I wish you the best of luck Roy. Thank you for 15 wonderful years and two of my favorite tournament games.

Ron Franklin 8 years, 4 months ago

Thanks Jamari & Ben for making this team work harder everyday in practice. You are a big part of this success.

JayhawkPiller82 8 years, 4 months ago

+4 as in Final Flour....!!!! RCJH (tried to post this here..) I didn't mean to post this below on Roy. We had 15 great years with Roy, but the last 2 games against the 'Heels, Bill simply out coached the former. Enough said. On to Nawlins!!!!

MimiHawk 8 years, 4 months ago

  • 8STR8 and + 4 (as in Final 4)

There was a noticeable difference in the team after you started practicing!

Armen Kurdian 8 years, 4 months ago

10 years ago, Roy & Bill had no national titles. Then the coaching move. Now Roy's got two, Bill's got one and might get a second...two future HoF coaches.

Louis Williams 8 years, 4 months ago

Sending North Carolina home and Duke losing in the "Second Round". Doesn't get much better than that!

dylans 8 years, 4 months ago

Unless Missouri losses in the first round. Oh wait...

Alohahawk 8 years, 4 months ago

Sorry, MimiHawk. Mizzery didn't 'advance' to the Sweet 16. They came in the backdoor. Literally speaking, of course.

John Randall 8 years, 4 months ago

Aloha, they came in the front, the back door is how they departed.

After all, they were the only departures from Big12 to finish this or last season above .500 in league play. It must have taken too much out of them . . .

bsiff 8 years, 4 months ago

I actually felt sorry for Roy until the post game presser, when he admitted that he didn't realize HCBS changed the defense... Nice guy, but so glad he is gone!

actorman 8 years, 4 months ago

You're kidding! He actually said that??? How's that even possible? I wonder if you heard him correctly. I mean I would bet you that 90% of the crowd realized that KU was playing a different defense, so how could Roy not have realized it?

Brak 8 years, 4 months ago

He was specifically asked about how HCBS going to the triangle+2 affected his team's offense, and he basically said that he noticed that we were in that defense once but they still had an open shot but missed it. He then said I think they just used that once when in reality HCBS used it much more than that and either Roy forgot or didn't know.

Doug Cramer 8 years, 4 months ago

I finally forgive Roy for the lie he told all of us all during that famous presser at Memorial Statdium the summer of 2000.

hawk_of_ages 8 years, 4 months ago

It wasn't a "lie." He didn't know KU was going to shove Bob Frederick out and replace him with someone like Bohl, and he certainly didn't know the UNC job was going to be offered to him again in a few years.

mom_of_three 8 years, 4 months ago

You would have to figure the UNC job would be open again during Roy's coaching years. He knew he would have to make that decision sometime. Dont say you will be somewhere forever when you knew it may not be true. I still have a kid who swears they will never enter the state of North Carolina.

John Randall 8 years, 4 months ago

Like a lot of us, Roy can let his emotions get the best of him. We had some great times and quite a few heartbreaks together, but it was never destined to last forever.

James, Forrest, Dick, Ted, Larry, 'ol Roy, coach Bill make for a pretty impressive bunch – even the itinerants on the list.

Choctaw 8 years, 4 months ago

Roy got the full court press put on him by Dean Smith himself. Roy's mentor, first boss and most revered Tar Heel. He left because he was made the offer he couldn't refuse from The Godfather himself. We had a great 15 years and none of us should feel anything but thankful for the time he spent here and that he left us with Bill Self. For that, Roy, Thank You! RCJHKU

ChuckJayhawk 8 years, 4 months ago

Just read the article about Roy. He sounded classy. Don't miss the sappiness...Darn, it's good to have Bill Self as our guy. Bill out coached Roy tonight. Roy admits it. Hats off to him. Part 1 was 2008, tonight was part 2 in righting old wrongs. I'm officially over Roy. Glad he went to NC - Good for everyone. Rock Chalk folks.

johnsont1 8 years, 4 months ago

"This is the most disappointing feeling I've ever had in my life," McAdoo said. "It really hasn't hit quite yet. It hurts a lot ... It's the end. It's over. It kills me on the inside."

.. he needs a girlfriend

waywardJay 8 years, 4 months ago

Dude's what 19, he played lights out and his team lost in the biggest stage he's ever seen. If he was one of ours you would offer him a hug. Chill out man.

yates33333 8 years, 4 months ago

Thankfully, we won. I didn't think I would ever feel sorry for Williams, but I did. I hope we don't play them again. Praise to TT, but he did remind me of the Taylor early in the season. I suspect the opposition and the amount he must play have affected the game he developed in the late regular season. Kansas' bench was a problem, but the starters covered it and Young's enthusiasm and speed overcame some of his bone head plays. KU has essentially become a 6 man team. Releford and Johnson did yeoman service. They made a some key plays. They shot pretty well. Withey and Robinson were outstanding despite some lousy calls by the refs. In the second half I didn't think the officials were ever going to call a foul on the UNC big men. I am probably prejudice but I think Withey outplayed Zeller, at least he helped KU more than Zeller helped UNC. Robinson made some bad judgment plays, but boy he is a good player. He outplayed a couple of UNC's back line.

Ohio State is next. They shoot better outside than any team we have played thus far and are good on the front line. It ought to be a great game. I hope we win and have a shot at Kentucky. If Charles Barkley had his way Kentucky would be given the trophy right now. I guess they have him in the studio for comic relief. Anthony understands basketball better than the rest, although Kenny Smith isn't bad. Despite liking Frank Martin I don't think he added anything to the pre and post program and halftime.

waywardJay 8 years, 4 months ago

At some point, Kentucky's going to learn the same lesson North Carolina just learned, A Lesson we learned back in December in the Sprint Center. Sometimes, It's not the rating of the Players, sometimes it's not the Name on the Jersey, and sometimes it's not how much potential you have, because that potential isn't anything but what could be....

Kentucky will face the flames soon enough. I just hope we get past Ohio State's revenge factor, because I guarantee you those 19 year-olds will look at us like the same team they played in November, even if Calipari tells them otherwise.

John Randall 8 years, 4 months ago

Disagree about Martin's presence on that panel. He made valid, intelligent points and did it with class. His progress among the upper echelon of his profession continues to be remarkable.

jayloco 8 years, 4 months ago

Glad to hear that everyone is pouring out respect for Roy Williams. Regardless of how you feel about him leaving KU, he gave us some great years and Final Four appearances. He deserves to be held in high esteem at Kansas and hope one day he will get his due at AFH!

oldrocker 8 years, 4 months ago

Couldn't agree more, jayloco. I have nothing but respect for Roy...but I'm glad he's at NC and Bill Self is at KU!

Rock Chalk!

jgkojak 8 years, 4 months ago

This just in... Kendall Marshall won't suit up for the final four...

Alohahawk 8 years, 4 months ago

He's only a sophomore. Are you saying he's declaring for the NBA? Just joking. :>)

brooksmd 8 years, 4 months ago

Here it's 9:30 and I'm still thinking "WOW, just freaking WOW!!"

Ryan Martin 8 years, 4 months ago

I would Mizzery losing in the first round to that comment. RCJH Final Four BOUND!

Jayhawk1958 8 years, 4 months ago

It would have been interesting if we lost how much of this love for Roy bandwagon by you people would have happened.

Kye Clark 8 years, 4 months ago

Well there was quite a bit of it leading up to the game too, so I imagine it wouldn't be that much less.

jayhawkinATL 8 years, 4 months ago

Love Roy and what he's done for KU basketball. Can't wait for his-departure-from-KU-story to be finally put to rest. My's been nine years already! Just wish the media (and some fans) would move on! Had UNC won, I would be pulling for them the rest of the way. Hell, anyone BUT UK!

JayhawkPiller82 8 years, 4 months ago

WELL SAID JH-ATL.... We had 15 great years with Roy, but the last 2 games against the 'Heels, Bill simply out coached the former. Enough said. On to Nawlins!!!!

Hank Cross 8 years, 4 months ago

Tell it to Stankums, Roy. You didn't recruit east of the MS river b/c you didn't want to step on Daddy Dean's toes.KU's recruiting territory is Planet Earth. Your fellow tarhell Brown didn't have a problem taking Manning away from smith. I am also tired of the dadgummit-aw shucks act. I'll bet there's not a dollar's difference between how Cal runs UK and how Huckleberry runs UNC. At least Cal is honest about who he is.

Lash 8 years, 4 months ago

agree oxcali God says he who believes a liar is a bigger fool than the liar. I ain't no fool.

hawk_of_ages 8 years, 4 months ago

"I'll bet there's not a dollar's difference between how Cal runs UK and how Huckleberry runs UNC. At least Cal is honest about who he is."

This is utterly ludicrous. Did you not just read Self's comments yesterday about how clean the KU program was under Roy? He had an unbelievable 15 years at KU; you don't have to root for him, but let's not just start spouting slanderous nonsense here.

Hank Cross 8 years, 4 months ago

Don't be naive. See Paterno, Joe. Unless you're a deep insider, you don't know what's really going on inside big-time progams where millions of dollars are at stake. Besides, what else was Self supposed to say?

Matt Kenton 8 years, 4 months ago

You've got to be kidding. John Calipari and Roy Williams? Facts are facts. UMass had to forfeit their tournament wins after Cal left. After he left Memphis they had to nullify the entire season. Is that what happened when Roy left KU? Self did not have to say anything about the program under Roy.

I'm tired of the dadgummit and referring to himself in the third person too, but come on.

lee3022 8 years, 4 months ago

Although I do agree that Roy does not belong in the same paragraph with sleazy Cal there is one flaw to your argument:

After Roy left and Self was here (maybe several years) it was discovered that there were small cash payments for all the players (at Christmas?) that was a tradition extended back into Roy's tenure. No program is entirely clean but Roy has certainly never been exposed as a deliberate cheater.

Tuskin 8 years, 4 months ago

Gifts were upon graduation. Roy had run it past KU's compliance staff, and they determined - incorrectly, in the NCAA's eyes - that small, unpromised gifts of gratitude upon graduation would be acceptable.

Marcia Parsons 8 years, 4 months ago

So are we to take this to mean you are a "deep insider" in the North Carolina program and that's how you know how it's run?

hawk_of_ages 8 years, 4 months ago

So it's "naive" to assume anything other than the worst about Roy because he's the coach of a "big-time program." So ... we should assume Self is no better than Calipari too?

This is the worst kind of trolling. I suppose I should stop taking the bait.

actorman 8 years, 4 months ago

I still find it difficult to root for Roy but there's no real logic to that feeling. I'm grateful for the incredible success he had at KU, and he is an incredibly classy guy (even if I do get a little sick of the Huckleberry act).

But I am sick to death of the "didn't recruit the East Coast" nonsense. That's one of those idiotic rumors that got started somewhere and has become "common knowledge." Are you really stupid enough to believe that Roy intentionally omitted half the country (and the most populous half, no less) in recruiting just so he could help out his alma mater??? That would be absolutely insane for anyone who is trying to compete for a national championship. Unless I see some actual proof of that, I will never believe it.

John Randall 8 years, 4 months ago

It is harder for Roy to put aside his loyalties than for most coaches. He established KU as the strongest recruiter of west coast talent (which was at least the equal of east and south during those years), and that still stands us in good stead.

I don't think 'Huckleberry' is an act at all – in fact it resonates well outside of Johnson County.

Tuskin 8 years, 4 months ago

Personally, I've always liked Coach Williams, though it hurt when he left. However, he himself did say he wasn't recruiting much on the East Coast. He said that there are a ton of good teams on the East Coast, so recruiting there would be harder. Instead, he focused a lot of attention to California, where there are a ton of good players but not so many great teams. That was his stated strategy.

Tuskin 8 years, 4 months ago

Here's a glimpse into Williams' recruiting practices, but I'm not finding his actual quote describing why he looked westward in recruiting.

RJ King 8 years, 4 months ago

"it was a great basketball game for about 34, 35 minutes."

I agree, Roy. And then it became an incredible, amazing, classic-for-the-ages game in the last 4 or 5!!!

HawkKlaw 8 years, 4 months ago

What an epic battle for the ages!

...Now beat Ohio State!

Chris Shaw 8 years, 4 months ago

Apparently the Yellow Brick Road runs smack dab right through Raleigh (Wolfpack) and Chapel Hill (Tar Heels). That's right Roy, "Your not in Kansas anymore"!

Kyle Sybesma 8 years, 4 months ago

Anyone who is still upset that Roy left is foolish. If you're still upset then you're saying you want him back. It's worked out for everyone. This is by far HCBS's best coaching job. On paper this is our second worst team to the freshman and sophomore loaded team in '06. And Self has taken them to the final four with defense and playing only one good game. Hopefully we've hit our stride.

kufaninmo 8 years, 4 months ago

I still have a lot of man love for Roy, he was a bad a$$ here and is one at UNC. BUT...Self is the freakin messiah!!

gardenjay 8 years, 4 months ago

Thank you for being so gracious, Roy.

Justin Lindsley 8 years, 4 months ago

I'm tired of the ROY haters. He left... we got SELF!!! who would you rather have? if Self were still in ILL. or some other higher profile program we would be getting our butt beat by him.

I love Roy. He ROCKED for 15 years. He built a great program and Self, and we the fans have benefited greatly from it. Thanks Roy. Lets start to give Roy the credit he DESERVES!!!!

John Randall 8 years, 4 months ago

Not sure how much Roy had to do with building Self (aside from butts to kick in Regional Finals).

jayhawkfan4life9705 8 years, 4 months ago

If they Jayhawks can play like they did today against North Carolina, I think they could win this. They did good this 1st half compared to the 1st half of their last 2 games.

flyingfinn 8 years, 4 months ago

Just got back from the game here in St, Louis and what victory for the Hawks. I love TRob but I gotta tell you Withey has been a beast these last 2 games and hope he keeps it up for 2 more. This team can look bad at times but they NEVER give up and Coach Self's changes at half time on defense were brilliant!!!! Come on Hawks 2 more!!!!!

jayhawkinnc 8 years, 4 months ago

did Roy ever shake hands with Self and the rest of the team afterwards? I didn't see him in the handshake line. if anything, he might have had a very quick shake of Self's hand and then just disappeared. normally, win or lose, he always has a lot to say to the other coach after a game.

jayhawk02 8 years, 4 months ago

According to Bob Davis, Roy shook hands with Self with about 0:15 left to go in the game. Unfortunately, I was on the road and had to listen to it on the radio. However, I'm sure Bob and Pipe called a much better game than the CBS announcers. Love how Bob gets soooooooo excited!!

HawkKlaw 8 years, 4 months ago

I saw the footage of Self and Roy shaking hands. The footage I saw was right after the game ended but it wasn't live, so I think they did shake hands with about 0:15 to go. It looked as one would imagine - Roy a bit disappointed and Self a bit elated. Both guys are class acts though.

melrank 8 years, 4 months ago

FYI - after the game, the UNC bus was parked adjacent to the KU bus. Carolina came out first. Roy walked over to the KU fans waiting - mostly friends and family - and congratulated the team and wished us luck. He even posed for a couple of pics. Waved to the crowd as their bus pulled out. Incredibly classy. He didn't have to do any of that. You could see his sadness yet he rose above the emotion. I'm a fan.

Scott Smetana 8 years, 4 months ago

Wow. Thanks for that info. I truly am a Roy and UNC fan (much behind KU of course). They have had nothing but respect for us. I know several of their fans and they are classy. They respect our heritage as Dean and Roy come from KU. They also hate Duke and Kentucky.

Kent Kossoy 8 years, 4 months ago

How many of you recall the bitterness that was expressed when Larry Brown left? And he won a championship. He left under one of the most harshest penalties the NCAA had ever placed on a school. We got thru it and now he is constantly at AFH and still sits on the KU side at a KU UNC match. I believe Roy would be again welcomed in Lawrence as well and both schools have their respective coaches. If there is a demon, it would still be Dean Smith. Thought the absence of him at the game was not even a footnote. All in all someone needs to find a building for Bill Self's name to be placed.

Jayandseahawk 8 years, 4 months ago

Just a side note: Dean Smith is in frail health, and also has stages of Alzheimer's . He rarely appears in public anymore here in NC...I'm a Jayhawk on the coast in Wilmington. RCJHKU! I, too, always put Kansas in the Final Four, and as National Champs in my bracket. Be true to your school.

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 4 months ago

I hate how ESPN analysts have to put asterisks after all of our wins.... KU won without Marshall in the game. KU won without Sullenger in the game.

I still think KU would have won both of those games with or without both those guys in the lineup.

White may not have made a lot of plays, but it wasn't like he did poorly. He was first to score, first to get a foul on Withey, led to some key turnovers for dunks.

We won because we contained their big man, and shut down Harrison Barnes.

Mike Putzier 8 years, 4 months ago

+1. Also tired of headlines that not-so-subtly imply we barely escaped with our lives.

WHEN we beat Ohio State, the asterisk will say "Only won because Ohio State was not allowed to score more points."

John Randall 8 years, 4 months ago

This was another game where Travis Releford was more of a difference maker than most fans are knowledgeable enough to realize. His defense wasn't the flashy kind that makes highlights, but (ala Morningstar) more effective in limiting the touches and good looks Harrison Barnes had.

Barnes played well against Releford when he had the ball – it just wasn't nearly as often as the Tarheels needed with their best facilitator missing. For several stretches Sunday afternoon, it seemed Barnes (and Releford) were not even in the game, and that eliminated one of the ways UNC might have overcome Marshall's injury.

flyingfinn 8 years, 4 months ago

Here's an asterisk to post....KU in the Final Four without any McDonald's All-Americans!!!!

woodscolt 8 years, 4 months ago

Give Roy and UNC credit for being a class act. Maybe the classiest team we played all year. I think we had a chance to win the game with or without Marshal. Give Self and this team credit. They are one hell of a bunch.

rob4lb 8 years, 4 months ago

We owe a lot to Roy. He is person responsible for KU basketball being the elite program it is today. I know Larry Brown won the national championship on the back of Danny Manning, but he only won one conference championship and was unable to recruit because he was always rumored to be leaving. While I disagree with kik1958- there have been a lot harsher penalties- Roy Williams took over a KU program that was mediocre at best and in two seasons had them back in the tournament as a high seed. KU has never missed the tournament since. If kik was born in 1958, like me, he knows that KU basketball in the 1970s and early 1980s was good, but not great. Every 2-3 years, they would have a ranked team and content for the Big 8 title but in the intervening years, they were maybe slightly above average.

Since Roy came, we expect to win the conference title, be a high seed in the NCAA tournament and are usually disappointed if we don't make it to the Final Four.

I love what Roy did for KU and he need to come back to AFH to a huge ovation. That said, I have a hard time cheering for UNC despite the fact that I believe KU is in better shape today than when Roy left thanks to Coach Self.

dylans 8 years, 4 months ago

I will root for Roy any day of the week. I will never root for North Carolina.

John Randall 8 years, 4 months ago

Do you really have that much animosity for the guy who accomplished so many things after his mentoring from that Missouri native whom KU named its fieldhouse after that he was similarly honored?

I know it's a real stain on the Sunflower State to have three of the greatest college basketball venues in the land named for coaches from Jamesport, Halstead and Emporia, but can't we just be charitable about it?

The Phog ... Rupp ... Dean Dome ... eponymous for greatness.

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 4 months ago

One thing I hate about the comparison of HCBS and HCRW is which one is better.

I have to admit they both are great coaches. I think that everyone is happy with HCBS and everyone would have been happy if HCRW was still at KU.

The fact of the matter is both of these coaches are HOF and both made KU that much better and we are lucky to have both of them in the great annals of KU History.

HCRW is a class act HCBS is a class act

It really is rare when you have a coach follow a legend and succeed. In the case of HCRW he had to come in just after a NC and many weren't prepared for his entry. Likewise HCBS had to come in just after a lot of Final Fours and 15 years of success.

Fact of the matter is both coaches were exactly what we needed and we should be greatful for both of them.

I think we are missing some statues at AFH...Roy Williams, Wilt Chamberlain, and Danny Manning. I'm sure there are others, but those 3 deserve some heritage at the fieldhouse.

I'd say Self, but his statue just keeps getting bigger and bigger with his continued success.

Thanks HCRW for the History...Thanks HCBS for the continued Legacy.

aerohawk 8 years, 4 months ago

I don't think squid are fish. But I understand the point.

Tuskin 8 years, 4 months ago

We lost the Syracuse game at the free-throw line. I don't think hands in shooters' faces is really applicable there.

BrooklynJHawk 8 years, 4 months ago

Roy has always been classy. It's been painful over the years to see KU fans treat him with utter disrespect. 15 excellent years but his graciousness is matched by our spite. It's embarrassing and people around the country notice.

bbeckum 8 years, 4 months ago

I was sad when he left, but when he wore that Jayhawk sticker in 08, I was cured. And he still takes heat from unc fans for that. Roy followed his heart; how can you fault him for that?

Steve Day 8 years, 4 months ago

Boo hoo Roy! Cry it up! I like you and respect you for what you did as a Jayhawk, but when you let all that crap build up before your last game and took the heart out of the best team in the country with what you longer respect you. I look at Les Miles at LSU. Ranked #1 and playing Tennessee in the SEC championship game when all the Les to Michigan talk began.....he held a presser at 3pm before the 7pm kickoff and told his team he was loyal. LSU won the NC that year and still rank in the top teams in the country. Roy crapped on KU, crapped on Daugherty, and the only reason he wore the sticker was to try to smooth things over. All glad Self is our Coach and im glad Benedict Williams is in Chapel Hill. Just makes todays victory sweeter! Now go ahead and crucify me for my opinion. Obviously the thousands of booos at the game today reflect many with the same opinion. Right or wrong, you dont crap on family Roy!

hawk_of_ages 8 years, 4 months ago

So Roy should have made a life decision based on whether it would help him win that day's game?

Marty Sedlacek 8 years, 4 months ago

Roy = Class Act, and someday he will return to AFH, as an old and retired man and receive a warm welcome and thank you. But, he better be retired before he returns.

Calijhawk 8 years, 4 months ago

csteven, you're an idiot. Everybody made it about Roy Williams -- the press, the fans, ..everyone except Roy Williams. And if he is a traitor, then CB McGrath and Jarod Haase are as well. Following your line of reasoning, they should have refused their jobs at Carolina. But they went, because it was in their best interests to do so. If Mark Turgeon wins four or five ACC championships, and the coaching job opens up at KU, you don't think he'd jump at the chance to return? Would he be turning on Maryland? I think we all love KU so much that we find it hard to understand that there are other places worthy of loyalty.

The move ended up working out well for everyone. If a Williams team and a Self team play 10 times with equal talent, I think the Self team wins 6 or 7. I think Self's teams are simply physically and mentally tougher. I still remember the Illinois game, and the same thing happened that happened today.

Tyson Ailshie 8 years, 4 months ago

Roy Williams is a Tar Heel not a Jayhawk, so I have no sympathy for him whatsoever. The better team, better coach won today just as in 2008. I respect his coaching abilities, but he's not as good as Self. We got the better end of the deal. In fact, I remember 2003 and hearing the announcement that he was leaving, and not feeling sad. Then hearing the new head coach, Bill Self announced, and being elated. JFL=Jayhawk for life. If you are not a Jayhawk, I could care less and Roy is no longer a Jayhawk. ROCK CHALK!

John Randall 8 years, 4 months ago

Roy didn't start as a Jayhawk and didn't finish as a Jayhawk, but he does have a few crimson and blue feathers from his days in Lawrence. AFH isn't the only place with tradition – just the best place.

79pkthawk 8 years, 4 months ago

Huh? I just can't reconcile what you've written with your bracket picks.

bbeckum 8 years, 4 months ago

HCRW was a great coach for us for 15 years. HCBS is a great coach for us now.

packywacky88 8 years, 4 months ago

That 3 by EJ was a dagger. After that, UNC was done. I was surrounded by Tarheels and they all just got up and left.

Gregg Webster 8 years, 4 months ago

Speaking of announcers......please CBS send Marv Albert packing. He never shut up and it became annoying to our crowd......You just couldn't hear with Marv's motor mouth constantly running.....

Congrats Jayhawks.


hawk_of_ages 8 years, 4 months ago

It seems like it's a rule on these boards that we have to hate every broadcast team except the local guys, but I really liked this crew.

Steve Kerr was always on top of the coaching adjustments being made by Self throughout the regional. And as a longtime NBA watcher, it was pretty special to hear Marv Albert yelling "Elijah Johnson, from DOWNTOWN!" the way he used to do for Michael Jordan and Reggie Miller.

nighthawking 8 years, 4 months ago

Yeah. Nobody likes that back biting Marv Albert. Anyone remember that sex scandal ?

fansincewilt 8 years, 4 months ago

OK, tournament people - enough is enough. The game between Kansas and North Carolina is too emotional. In the future, they should only face each other in the national championship. They knew exactly what they were doing. They made a path a mile wide for them to meet in the regional final. They are thinking of money. Putting Kansas in St. Louis with North Carolina guaranteed a sellout. I think the NCAA will do anything for money. North Carolina was the #3 seed and should not have had to face Kansas in the regional final in St. Louis. It should have been Michigan State in the Midwest with North Carolina going out west to face Missouri. That would have been a great game as well but not so much emotion.

hawk_of_ages 8 years, 4 months ago

Right, we wouldn't want to inject too much emotion into our college hoops.

Steve Brown 8 years, 4 months ago

who wants a "that's twice" blue T.shirt, let me know.

Steve Day 8 years, 4 months ago

Calijhawk. Unless you are Roy Williams, you gave no right to call me an idiot because I have my own opinion about Roy. Haase and McGrath took the jobs they were offered. When Roy left KU they were unemployed. Id never fault them. If course you take the job that gets you into your career. Roy however had a job, to which he told KU that he want leaving. He was at KU way longer than he was at NC. If that was your dream job, then take it the 1st time it came open. Dont cave to daddy Dean. Dean never came running back to KU when things opened up. He built his own program very successfully, and I respect that. A great KU player and a great UNC coach. Roy built KU up, preached family to his players, then crapped in it all. Those players still feel the way I do! (ask Langford, and Pollard). How do you not respect coaches that are loyal? Marshall at Witchita (turned down Neb) and Smart at VCU (2 years in a row turned down big time jobs), all because of Loyalty to the players theyve recruited and families they sold their universities too. Roy crapped on all those people after he laid the foundation for having his own Dean type program here at KU. Turgeon will do fine there in MD, and only time will tell, but id almost guarantee that if he lasts there 15 years and builds a power program, hes not leaving! He never crapped on KU and I would never expect him to come back as the UNC guys did Roy. happier with Bill....glad Roys gone because we upgraded. Just dont like how he left and why he left. Thats my opinion idiot.

hawk_of_ages 8 years, 4 months ago

How would you feel about Turgeon if 15 years from now he left to coach his alma mater as Roy did? Would he be a "traitor" then?

And you're really going to compare turning down the Nebraska job to turning down the UNC job? (Which, I might add, Roy did once, and proceeded to bring us two more Final 4s).

JayHawkFanToo 8 years, 4 months ago

I agree with the posters that think you are wrong.

HC Williams did something Dean Smith never had the guts to do; i.e. go home. Dean Smith was born in Emporia ,Kansas, went to school and learned coaching at KU where he won a National Championship and later was an assistant coach.

He famously said:

"Everything I ever learned about basketball, I learned at the University of Kansas."

He eventually ended up at UNC and never looked back. He sent his star Assistant Coach to KU only to lure him back after he became one of the top coaches in the country and Daugherty had not worked out. It is amazing the loyalty Dean Smith had for UNC alumni, when he had so little for KU. . HC Williams was born in North Carolina, attended UNC, played for UNC, was an assistant coach at UNC, before he came to KU Deep down, most KU fans knew that it was a matter of time before he went back.

As far as Wichita State, Nebraska and VCU, those schools do not belong in the same conversation with KU and UNC; It is not even close.

If you are going to be upset with someone, Dean Smith is a much better target than HC Williams.

John Randall 8 years, 4 months ago

Dean Smith was jerking Roy's chain both times the UNC job opened up. The difference was that by 2003 Al Bohl had decided to become the biggest frog in Potter's Lake. We should be grateful indeed to the interim AD who literally pulled our chestnuts from the fire after Bohl and Williams ran each other out of town.

By the way, MU would have offered Bill Self had Bill not insisted on a clause permitting him to pursue the KU job when it opened up (like Lou Holtz had done at Minnesota before going on to Notre Dame).

Bill was at KU (with Larry Brown) before Roy and spent nearly twenty years preparing himself to return. As many have commented, things could hardly have turned out better for all concerned.

John Randall 8 years, 4 months ago

Reference for my opinion on Bohl:

The interim AD between Al Bohl and Lew Perkins was Drew Jennings. He headed the searches that spring for head basketball coach and also for new director of athletics. I'd say the first was more successful. In fact, considering the underhanded treatment of a football coach he didn't hire, I wonder if Big Lew might have acted similarly with a basketball coach he didn't hire, at some point in time.

No such concerns with the current situation, though there have been times my judgement was less than perfect – last time I remember was in the early 80s. :-)

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 4 months ago

What is Bill's record head to head all-time against Roy Williams. I know that Bill's Illini team beat Williams Jayhawks in the tourney in or around '01.

I claimed to one of the UNC fan friends that Bill Self owns Roy Williams. In the three matchups that I know of Self is 3-0.

hawk_of_ages 8 years, 4 months ago

They faced each other in the regional semis two years in a row: Illinois beat us in 2001, then we won on the way to the Final 4 in 2002. So Bill leads Roy 3-1.

Jonathan Allison 8 years, 4 months ago


I tend to remember who beat us more so that who we beat I guess!

HAWKTOPIA 8 years, 4 months ago

There is no other coach i would rather beat than Roy Williams! One of my favorite teams is who-ever is playing Roy. He is almost a classy guy, but his classiest is when he is crying over an unexpected loss.

He even tried to blame his hurt and missing Mickey D point guard for coaching from the bench for the loss.Shameless!

So many coaches do so much more with so much less, the "cloths made this man." We are blessed to have Coach Self.

Seven McD all americans to none. Read it and weep! Bring on the recruits!


hawk_of_ages 8 years, 4 months ago

"He even tried to blame his hurt and missing Mickey D point guard for coaching from the bench for the loss.Shameless!"

Uh, he absolutely did not do that. He said he wished Marshall was in the game, not on the bench.

What's the deal with all these ridiculous potshots at one of the greatest KU coaches of all time?

kufankam 8 years, 4 months ago

when did he blame the loss on not having marshall? of course, he had to talk about as it was one of the first things he was asked about. however, in his opening remarks and almost throughout every question, he credits KU. everyone understands KU was fortunate to play them without their PG. self even said so. roy didn't harp on it at all. he addressed it when he was asked but spent much of the presser talking of crediting KU and how much he is proud of his players. maybe you didn't get the entire press conference???

***the only reason i pulled it from UNC site is that kuathletics did not have it posted (that i could see)

how can you have that attitude against a guy who is responsible for the program being where it is today? self is awesome and i wouldn't trade him for the world.... i think it is a bit weak to root against someone that set the table for self, though.

blindrabbit 8 years, 4 months ago

Tarheels and Williams seem like a class act; feel about them kinda like K-State, root for them if they are playing us. Teams I have trouble with, and can't seem to support for various reasons:

Missouri- for who they are, what they stand for, and their inferiority complex! Syracuse- nasty and unlikable coach! Kentucky- who they are and coach Calamari! Connecticut- shady coach! Duke- The Notre Dame of BB, snippy coach, Eastern Sportswriters favorite! West Virginia- Missouri's replacement, unlikable coach who we'll get to know! All 3 major Florida teams, especially Miami and Gators! Loiuisville- don't really dislike, but love to whip up on Pitino!

Rock Chalk!

blindrabbit 8 years, 4 months ago

Correct My 8:26 above Root for tarheels and K-State when NOT playing us!

FMTXJayhawk 8 years, 4 months ago

RW was asked about playing home and home series. HCBS was all for it but not Roy - and I respect what he said...

"It's too emotional for me," said Williams, who coached at Kansas for 15 seasons from 1988-2003. "That's the bottom line. ... When somebody says Allen Fieldhouse to me, that's exactly what I think about, is all those positive thoughts, and I don't want to go in there as the coach of the opposing team."

William Weissbeck 8 years, 4 months ago

There is some irony that we should keep in mind. This was supposed to be one of Roy's best NC teams. But think back to '97. What cost us vs. Arizona? How about a broken wrist to one Jerrod Hasse?

hawk_of_ages 8 years, 4 months ago

Good point. And it must have been tough for Jerod on the bench watching these 'Hawks get the Final 4 berth that he never got.

lee3022 8 years, 4 months ago

I believe if we carry around the burdens of the past or if we drag with us the fears of the future we rob ourselves of the joys of this moment. This is a joyous moment.

Our basketball team has continued to excel and has won the Big XII and four games in the NCAA tournament. A great achievement. Many of us have said it before but Steve Kerr noted several times that this is likely Bill Self's greatest coaching job. I simply see it as an extension of Bill Self. It is who he is. I am thankful we get to go the New Orleans. I am more thankful that Bill Self is our coach and these players are our players. Win or lose they have given amazing effort and it has paid well.

As for the comments about playing short-handed teams we all know that we are missing three players ourselves from the NCAA's greatly misguided changing of its interpretation of the rules (and creating new ones) on the fly. No matter. This is KU. We will play on.

theend 8 years, 4 months ago

No sympathy here, Roy. You're probably a good person and a nice guy.......but I can't forgive or forget. I appreciate your 15 years at KU......but the way you left was terrible.

But who're over done as far as KU goes. We have a better coach now.

Sally Presson 8 years, 4 months ago

No sympathy for roy from here either, the best thing that ever happened to Kansas was Roy leaving and us getting Bill. What a difference those two coaches are--Bill out-coached him in Game 1 and again in game 2 No one is more sincere than Bill and more phoney than Roy. the idea he was even thinking about playing that boy who broke his wrist is amazing, he didn't lose the game because that boy didn't play, he lost because Bill out coached him and our guys are better. Rock Chalk boys--go get them in New Orleans!! We love this team!!!

Choctaw 8 years, 4 months ago

Roy got the full court press put on him by Dean Smith himself. Roy's mentor, first boss and most revered Tar Heel. He left because he was made the offer he couldn't refuse from The Godfather himself. We had a great 15 years and none of us should feel anything but thankful for the time he spent here and that he left us with Bill Self. For that, Roy, Thank You! RCJHKU

Day Shepherd 8 years, 4 months ago

Okay look Roy is a great coach but got out coached yesterday by Bill Self. How you can have 5 McDonalds All Americans on that team and lose even 1 player and be so discombobulated is beyond me? I've read on other boards that it would be like us losing Trob or Ty. That is ridiculous because that's all we got. One player of the year candidate.

As far as Roy's class, he knows what to say and what not to say. I lost a lot of respect when he said in 2002 "I don't give a sh** about NC, and then left a few days later". As I said before, he is a great coach but let the sappy "Tar Heel born, Jayhawk bred crap go." I would like to sub it for "Tarred, feathered, and Jayhawk dead!" I don't feel sad for him, Kryzewski, Calipari or anyone else who loses. It is a business folks not a a soap opera.

Kit Duncan 8 years, 4 months ago

Have you ever said something in the heat of the moment and regretted later you said it? Well, that's what happened to Roy, only he said it in front of a bunch of reporters with a bunch of microphones and cameras pointing his direction!

Did he say it? Yes. Does he deserve to be hated (disrespected) for life for it? No!

Roy Williams gave his all to the University of Kansas for fifteen years. The school, basketball program and fans are the better for him having come to KU. Roy still loves Kansas. I choose to think he deserves to be respected for what he did while at KU, and will forever be supportive of him as a an individual, coach, and fellow Jayhawk.

Kit Duncan 8 years, 4 months ago

(I posted this on another thread and feel it to be relevant here):

I suggest that Chancellor Gray-Little invite Roy to a football game to be presented with some award or title (or whatever) at halftime. Put the word out well in advance to encourage attendance by the Jayhawk Nation and use it as a chance to heal whatever wounds are left to be healed.

Roy can't or won't come during basketball season due to scheduling impossibilities and he won't schedule a game between KU and UNC as long as he feels that he is not welcome.

Please, KU Athletics, University and fans, don't let it fester any longer like you did with Wilt. Let's let bygones be bygones and give Roy the place at the table he so richly deserves with regards to the KU coaching legacy. Make Roy Williams feel welcome on Naismith Court in Phog Allen Field House anytime he wishes to return.

And a great rivalry between two of the elite basketball programs might be born out of that healing.

packywacky88 8 years, 4 months ago

I wonder if Barnes is wishing he chose Kansas and not UNC?

Greg McKean 8 years, 4 months ago

Roy made a commitment to Kansas that he was never going to leave. This is the same program that took a chance on a no name coach named Roy Williams. Provided him every opportunity to be successful, learn the craft, and be part of the Kansas Tradition the rivals no other program. Does anyone owe anyone? Well, I think that Roy (at least) owed Kansas the commitment he made. It’s called loyalty and respect. End of Story.

Dean Smith never should have called Roy the second time, it was unfair. In my eyes both are villains. Roy for going back on his commitment, when Kansas provided so much and Dean for putting him in that spot.

Talk to anyone in Lawrence inner circle and they will tell you that Roy came in as a nice, humble, down to earth man. But, over the years he changed to a self absorbed, controlling, egotistical man. It’s a fact. He thought he was the biggest act in town. Bill Self is quite the opposite, he has not changed a bit since he arrived in Lawrence. Still Good Old Bill. Everyone likes to refer to Roy as Good Old Roy. I don’t think so.

It has worked out well for both. The Biggest reasons why I like Mr Self.

1) He will never change and never “big time” anyone.

2) He understands the importance of mental toughness and playing “tough”. Roy taught his players softness. I want someone tough. All of Roy’s crying got real old.

3) Mr Self teaches defense better than Roy ever will. Roy wants rolls royces that run the floor and push the basketball up the floor and “talks” about playing defense. Mr Self demands good defense.

4) Mr Self will make adjustments, he does not play the “Carolina Way”. He adapts his talent to the style of play that is effective and will evolve. Roy, oh I forgot Good Old Roy (let me puke), only knows one way. Never more evident than on Sunday when he was totally out coached by the Real Good Old Boy. In fact the national media is now picking up on Roy not knowing that Kansas was playing a Triangle defense the last 8 minutes of the game, not the last 1 or 2 possessions as indicated by a blubbering Roy after the game.

Give me Good Old Bill any day of the week.

fansincewilt 8 years, 4 months ago

There was no shame in leaving - fifteen years was enough for all that KS had done for him. Probably, he should have not said that he was never leaving. With that said, I don't blame Roy for not wanting to play KS. Whether he feels guilt or whatever, he just is too emotional to get up to want to kill Kansas and that is what is needed to beat a good team. I don't like playing them either. I hope both Kansas and North Carolina passes Kentucky for most wins but Kansas belongs in first place. We are very fortunate to have gotten Bill Self. I do think Roy would have won about as many. Roy is not a bad coach. He is a great coach. He just can't coach against Kansas.

Steve Brown 8 years, 4 months ago

Roy gave us his best years, sad when he left, but turned out best for all around.

My beef isn't with Roy, thought he should know never say never, even when recruiting trail coaches kept telling recruits he would leave so he was forced to give the forever proclamation.

Here's my beef, we are in title game, UNC already fired Matt D, has Roy in back pocket promised him they wouldn't leak until after the tourney, then gets worried that fickle Roy would back out after he won the title, just couldn't leave KU. So they leak the story and ruin our boys emotional state of mind. MU Jack Harry shoves microphone in face of Collison right before game to inquire about Roy leaving....UNC submarined us.

Same thing almost happened to Larry, when he had a job but after '88 he flip flop couple times...on behind the table deals.

So my beef is with UNC those toads.

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