Baylor defeats Kansas, 81-72

  • 6:30 p.m., March 9, 2012
  • Sprint Center, Kansas City, MO

Saturday, March 10, 2012

Wait and see: KU must sweat out NCAA seed

Kansas center Jeff Withey looks to the bench as Baylor guard Brady Heslip celebrates a big three-pointer to widen the Bears' lead during the second half on Friday, March 9, 2012.

Kansas center Jeff Withey looks to the bench as Baylor guard Brady Heslip celebrates a big three-pointer to widen the Bears' lead during the second half on Friday, March 9, 2012.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 81-72 loss to Baylor on March 9, 2012.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU players Tyshawn Taylor and Jeff Withey

KU players Tyshawn Taylor and Jeff Withey talk to reporters following the Jayhawks' 81-72 loss to Baylor on March 9, 2012.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

BU's Scott Drew, Perry Jones III, Quincy Acy and Pierre Jackson

Baylor coach Scott Drew and players Perry Jones III, Quincy Acy and Pierre Jackson talk to reporters following the Bears' 81-72 victory over Kansas on March 9, 2012.

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KU vs. Baylor

Box score

— Senior point guard Tyshawn Taylor spoke up, breaking the silence in a somber Kansas University basketball locker room Friday night in Sprint Center.

“I just told my team once coach walked out that everybody should be disappointed because we shouldn’t have lost,” Taylor said after the Jayhawks’ 81-72 Big 12 tournament semifinal setback to Baylor.

“But our goal is not to win the Big 12 tournament championship. Our goal is to win the Big 12 (regular-season) championship, which we have, and the national championship, which we still can.

“It sucks to lose any game,” Taylor added of his message to his teammates after the Jayhawks’ sixth loss against 27 victories, “but it’s not the end of the season. It’s not. A lot of teams lose their conference tournaments and go home and still have something to play for. We’ve got to get back in the lab and need to be getting better, not dropping. We’re going to be all right.”

The Jayhawks, who will anxiously be awaiting their NCAA Tournament fate on Selection Sunday, believe they know why they are not playing in the Big 12 tourney finals today.

As simplistic as it sounds, the Jayhawks believe Baylor (27-6) merely wanted it more. KU blistered the Bears, 92-74 in Lawrence, and 68-54 in Waco, this season.

“It’s human nature. How would you feel if somebody beat up on you twice?” KU junior guard Elijah Johnson said after scoring 15 points off 6-of-16 shooting (one of six from three).”

After all, it’s not as if the Bears have a bad team. BU is ranked 12th in the country, KU third. And yet the Jayhawks easily handled Scott Drew’s crew twice.

“They were a little more aggressive. You could tell they wanted this bad. They came out like we would if we lost two games,” noted Taylor, who scored 20 points off 8-of-15 shooting. He hit one of four threes on a night KU made just two of 13 to Baylor’s nine of 19.

“I hate that that’s always our excuse, that we came out flat,” Taylor added. “When it’s game time and the ball goes up, you’ve got to be ready. We have to understand that.”

Whatever the reason, KU, which rallied from a 14-point deficit (49-35 with 18:39 to play) to grab a two-point lead (58-56 with 10:21 left), faded down the stretch and will be sitting home today while BU plays Missouri in the 5 p.m. final.

“I don’t know if overconfidence is the right word. I guess it could be,” said KU coach Bill Self, whose Jayhawks won five of the past six Big 12 tourney titles. “We beat them twice. We had Baylor down over 20 both games we won.

“If that is the case, then how immature is that? That’s the thing that bothers me. I’m not buying in to that at all. When you are playing for a championship of any kind, how in the world could that ever be the mind-set? Going into the NCAA Tournament, that can’t be the mind-set. Maybe it’s a good lesson for us.”

Taylor scored seven points and Thomas Robinson (15 points) six in an 18-3 run that turned a 53-40 deficit into a 58-56 lead at 10:21.

BU woke up at that point, embarking on a 19-8 run to build a 75-66 lead at 1:07. Brady Heslip iced three three-pointers (including one that gave the Bears a 59-58 lead) in that stretch. Also, Perry Jones (18 points) contributed eight in that surge.

“I think it was a lot more than that,” Taylor said, asked if Heslip’s bombs beat the Jayhawks, “but it came down to him hitting those threes. He’s a great shooter. The first one, Travis (Releford) had his hand up. We know better than to let him shoot open shots like that.”

Noted Self: “The whole deal on Heslip is, the most we’re ever going to leave him is to bluff at the ball and get back to him. We made two critical mistakes, critical. You can’t just put it on Travis because if we got through the back screen quicker maybe we could have released and got to the shooter quicker. That definitely went against scouting report.”

The Bears, who wore their new, camouflage uniforms for the first time against KU, added another new wrinkle in the third meeting this year: man-to-man defense.

“I would rather them play man, honestly,” Taylor said. “I don’t think that was it (reason for defeat) at all. I think defensively we didn’t play our best. They rebounded the ball well (the teams tied 37-37 on the boards) and made big shots when they needed to.”

KU All-America candidate Robinson sat out the last five minutes of the first half after picking up his second foul. KU trailed, 43-35, at the break, the lead growing from four to eight with Robinson out.

“The reason Thomas came out was because of two fouls,” Self said. “But let’s call it like it is. Withey (Jeff, 11 points, seven boards) and Young (Kevin, five points, five boards) were our best guys the first half. We had so many bad possessions (at the end of the first half). The foul situation was the biggest reason he came out.”

KU is expected to be a No. 1 or No. 2 seed and play first-round games in Omaha, Neb., starting Friday.

“Our season is not over,” Taylor said. “The exciting thing is it’s just getting started for us. We can learn from this and do some great things.”


Scott Smetana 8 years, 7 months ago

I really can't remember this Baylor game these guys are talking about. Time to move on. Rock Chalk #2 seed and a chip on our shoulders!

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

What a pi$$ poor effort from KU. I know this game really doesn't mean anything, but a little bit of personal pride would have been nice. KU looked like they had no interest in playing hard. Both Taylor and Robinson walked through most of this game.

Maybe they'll be more interested in playing hard come tourney time. My big issue is that they will likely lose their 2nd game in the tourney AGAIN because this group of players doesn't seem to feel the need to play hard and give 100% unless they think their opponent is "worthy" of that type of effort. LAZY. That lazy attitude started with Sherron Collins and has flowed downhill to Taylor and Robinson.

LngTimeFan 8 years, 7 months ago

TRob must be counting his big $ already, he sure isn't playing smart often looking lost on the floor. And, that driving the floor only to take a 3 crap has to stop. Withey is playing hard, hope he regains his FT touch. BU wanted the game, KU acted as if it didn't matter. Gotta make 3's, can't just clank them. BU had to be as tired, so that would be an excuse, not a reason. Play hard from the opening tip, LISTEN to and DO as the coaches say, knowk off the crap. How did TT like the Henslip mocking? Well deserved by TT.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

This was intended for "twofacedcoach44" and not for LngTimeFan.

But to LngTimeFan, how could you even hint that TRob is counting his $s already. This guy has gone above and beyond the call of duty so many times. He is a terrific human being. One of Self's all-time Tumble Weed Buddhas of getting better. This guy in his first season starting has been asked to carry the team inside for extended stretches, when no one, not even Withey can get anything going, despite the other team double and triple teaming Thomas.

Failor was out to get in his head. It started with the little shizz skull of a guard on Failor trying to hook him and get him into a confrontation. Fortunately, the ref saw it and called the correct foul. But from that point forward, the contact on him never let up...NEVER. He was getting hit as often as a guard in football, fer gosh sakes.

TRob is in his first year as a starter. He hasn't seen every thing before. He's never carried a team through a conference tournament. And he will never have carried a team through an NCAA either. He isn't perfect. His nickname is Superman, but he is human. He got confused about what they were doing to him and he lost his poise. He's been told not to lash out, so he didn't. He pulled too far inward, that's all. Danny Manning couldn't carry a team his junior year either. The only freshman I've ever seen carry a team to a ring were Kareem Jabbar and Bill Walton. No one else. Not even Wilt. Cut Thomas some !@#$%^ing slack, if you love him, if you are a Jayhawk.

For what its worth, it looked like Thomas has lost some weight and muscle mass through his massive shoulders for the first time in his career. Best guess is he got whatever Tyshawn got, but he's probably never had to play through sickness in a high level game before.

Thomas Robinson will be back.

Don't tug on Superman's cape.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

Erratum: the only "freshman" should read "first year starter."

Steve Gantz 8 years, 7 months ago

Jaybate, my one problem with your analysis that I've noticed particularly this year is you get all worked up over officials letting contact go against our guys. I watch games with a KU bias too like we all do and I don't see it nearly as often as you do. Maybe I watch it a little more objectively than you do, but goodness it seems like you think the officials have a conspiracy against our boys which I just don't see. Sure they have their bad games, but we're the beneficiaries of that often as well. The two Misery games are proof of that.

It's a physical game. You know my ties to UW and so I know it to the extreme the physicality. An opposing coach whined about it, Sullinger's daddy whined about it. But three officials make UW one of the least fouling teams out there, at the same time playing intense in your face defense.

You could be right however. I'm just a fan, not a hoops expert, never played (except for 1 year with a tiny Bible college in which I scored two points!:), never coached (except my sons undefeated 5th grade team!), never pretended to be anything but an avid fan. I just don't see what it is that you're seeing.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago


I never get all worked up.

I work out here.

Re: the refs--of course they screwing both teams. Whatever made you think I thought that was not the case.

But this season truly is different for an utterly empirical reason, my Leinenkugel loving survivor of the lakes with Native American names.

During the stretches when the zebras (and pronounce that with an English pronunciation please) do the Linda Lovelace thing with their whistles, and no fouls are being called, and the coaches take the opportunity to have their team's out brutalize each other, KU this season is at a sharp, dare I say, Wilkinson Sword Blade sharp, disadvantage.

KU has only 5 guys that can play big minutes, and two guys that can play some back up.

Of the five starters, KU has one big that can bang and one that simply cannot.

So: each time the refs go Linda Lovelace, we take the worst of it for sure.

Our banger, TRob, has to bang for two. And Jeff basically has to wait for another period when fouls are being called to become a force again.

But it gets worse, my little Stevens Point Ale-ing compatriot.

When we get into the back-up bigs, there are not back-up bangers, just tall, thin inexperienced fellows.

Where the cheese heads and Big Tenners like to head butt like pasty white, rutting water buffaloes in the rust belt, i.e., down where the blocks are the duopoly real estate positions to own, KU effectively has no backup bangers, whether by nature, or nurture.

Justin and Kevin cannot bang.

And no one fears them as head hunters either.

Why, up in the North Country fair, where the winds is heavy on the cold border line, justin and Kevin would not even be considered strong and meaty enough to be ball boys, much less 4s and 5s.

Why Justin and Kevin would no more run head first into a milking machine, as would any UW Badger back up, than would a whippet run into a diesel locomotive.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

It follows then that whenever a game is being fitted into a broadcast window, the opposing team is giving us waaaaay the worst of it this season, as opposed to last sea on when Self was so deep in bodies that he could afford to have his starters, like Marcus, run across the open floor, catch an unsuspecting player in transition and throw him a fore arm smash just to play head games with the opponent, not to really hurt them.

Why last year's team almost did more forearm smashing in the paint that rebounding. Look at my paintograph gallery and there's a wonderful picture of everyone on both teams up in the air rebounding and Thomas fore arm smashing the forehead of an opponent without even going for a ball.

You've got to grant me reality to work with here, wissoxfan83.

Half the league has been getting even with Thomas this season for him being our designated thugger last season.

After awhile it cloys on him, ya know? :-)

I mean last season was fun for him, because he got to come in and dish out punishment indiscriminately. It didn't matter if they called fouls or not. Our Twin Draft Choices could due without him if necessary.

Not so this season, even though Jeff has had a fine season as a finesse big.

TRob has had to cope with gang warfare all season long.

Truly, it is like he is out there by himself.

Jeff, Justin and Kevin can't deal in discipline. They lack the mean gene, or the strength, or both.

Of course, I'm right about this, wissoxfan83.

Trust your jaybate. :-)

Steve Gantz 8 years, 7 months ago

Boy that was the longest way of saying our bench is thin so we can't bang them but they can bang TRob all they want! I still don't know how true what you're saying is true. Still hoping for a KU-UW matchup someday. Almost happened in 08 when Davidson took out UW.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

It would be a doozy of a grind it out, if it occurs after Self has us restocked with bruisers. Could devolve to 33-32 for a final score!

deepind 8 years, 7 months ago

Couple of other freshman (first year starters) to do it in the recent years - Carmelo Anthony. I will leave out Derrick Rose because the entire season is nullified! Plus Calamari's players never really have to carry the entire team because there's always a lot of talent.

LngTimeFan 8 years, 7 months ago

You really aren't very bright are you. You sound like a 12 yr old. Grow up. Have been a fan probably more years than you are old. Self has said TR hasn't been focused, Piper has said it the last several games at times. See what you like, but at least look at issues without all the smart mouth crap.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

Oh, you are a dull tool that needs sharpening by me, aren't you? :-)

This is Not your abused family. We don't just sit here and take your ideology of doltism here.

Now, shut your yap and pay attention to some people around here who can count above three.

If you do listen for a year, your family will begin to respect you again, too.

MichaelC 8 years, 7 months ago

Jaybate - I have to admit I don't normally read all the way through your posts. They're usually long and this is the age of instant gratification. But after reading your reply to what I consider to be the single most ignorant thing ever posted on the internet, you've converted me into a fan.

The person who wrote that has never coached a minute of basketball or is simply a troll. Well done jaybate, well done

WilburNether 8 years, 7 months ago

jaybate, I'm sure you'll feel much better when you return to your kindergarten class on Monday morning.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

Oh, Wilbur, and I so thought you had recovered from being intellectually neutered. :-)

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

Out of bounds.. No lazy player will suit up at Kansas. Big difference between lazy and tired. Despite what B. Knight thinks..we are not a deep team.

PamB700 8 years, 7 months ago

You are absolutely spot on, twocoach44. I cannot understand why these guys continue to act like this, given how it has worked out for them since '09. I live in St. Louis, and if KU chokes again, I'll hear about it in spades from the Mizzou fans. They're already telling the sunflower seeds joke - you know, the one where Kansas folks can only eat 10 seeds, because they choke on the eleventh?? I'm pretty tired of that one.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

twocoach44 = PamB700 = serial aliasing = pathological lurking

Hey, how about using some of these:

DebD600 PatC500 JeanY400 EuniceT200 VernaZ100 GildaM900

They're yours. :-)

If you really want to get serious about this serial aliasing, you need to get a serial alias generating routine, or write on yourself. Its easy in C++.

PamB700 8 years, 7 months ago

What in the world are you talking about? Good grief. What an insecure little man you must be.

kusayzone 8 years, 7 months ago

Great attitude that everyone should assume. What a great season for a rebuilding? year! Enjoy these next games, as the next loss means an end of a fabulous season that no one in the Big 12 gets to enjoy each season, not just once in a while

Matt Bowers 8 years, 7 months ago

This game smacks of 1997 second round.

Rock Chalk

AZHawk81 8 years, 7 months ago

+1. Let the overreactions to one loss begin.

Scott Smetana 8 years, 7 months ago

KUstrong what? Fairweather strong? Probably not worth your time to root for KU in the tourney according to your outlook. You probably didn't watch the second have of the Mizzou game. How does a game smack anyway?

coolsportsdad 8 years, 7 months ago

Exactly. We were looking at the being the #4 1 seed, playing in the #1 2 seed bracket. Now, we can be the #1 2 seed and play against the #4 seed's bracket. Add chip to shoulder, lesson hopefully learned and less pressure. Not to mention 2 days more rest and not the emotional effort in a hyped-up game against mizzzzzz.

Kye Clark 8 years, 7 months ago

Random thoughts following the loss:

  1. No the sky is not falling. And on the surface a loss to a talented Baylor team is fairly small potatoes - we're still guaranteed at worst a #2 seed, no injuries were incurred, and really I could care less about the Big XII tournament (I'd posted as much prior to the loss).

HOWEVER...I really wanted this game. Us losing sets up a nightmare scenario in the final - Baylor vs. Mizery. Obviously nobody wants Mizery slinking off to the SEC with any hardware (I can just imagine Kimberly English's comments now...ugh), and Scott Drouche and Faylor are public enemy no. 1 once Mizery is out the door. Just a bad deal.

  1. Brady freakin' Heslip! Really? More than anything, his 3s cemented my worry over Travis and his ability to defend at this point. Both shots he was late getting to Heslip, and it cost us big. This is the same guy EJ locked up a few weeks ago for a donut. Travis has been billed as our lock-down defender. Right now I just don't see it. And I'm not saying this to pile on Travis. He actually did a lot of good things in the game. He rebounded great, and was one of the few players that consistently brought some energy. And he's not horrible on defense, but he's fallen off from where he was at the beginning of the year, and his lock-down ability was one of the things that made us so good - put Travis on someone and forget about it. There's going to be players far better than Brady Heslip that we need to stop. Coach Self & Travis both say the foot isn't the issue. Um, OK, so...

sideburn07 8 years, 7 months ago

The fact that Travis Releford is deemed our "lock down defender" is a complete joke. The guy gets burned nearly every game and commits high school type reach in fouls late in the shot clock over and over again. He either has something seriously wrong with his foot/knee or he doesn't have much business being on the court because the guy has little to no offensive ability.

John Randall 8 years, 7 months ago

When the other teams' best wing player gets a few baskets, you hunt for a Jayhawk to pile on . . .

Some news here – the University of Kansas hasn't produce a top tier basketball team since the 1890s solely for the purpose of your self-aggrandizement. Do some research before you take me up on this offer: I'll bet my next pension check that the player assigned for TRel to defend has not scored 75% of his season average in more than three games all year.

kurocker154325 8 years, 7 months ago

Trele makes so many plays that most don't see. Times when he hustles and gets the loose ball for a timeout, or with a couple mins left yesterday he got a huge offensive rebound that if we would've converted on would have been a big turnaround. He made a couple of bad plays, but he does all the hustle plays.

Kye Clark 8 years, 7 months ago

Biek - clueless? First of all, understand that Self is going to defend his players. He won't simply throw them under the bus after they get torched. Second if you look at that quote, it says "you can't JUST put it on Travis", meaning he was still partially at fault.

Watch the game? I did, and am apparently able to watch it with more objectivity than you. Pretty much everyone has acknowledged Travis is having troubles, including Coach Self. Here's some quotes:

"Travis Releford: Left Brady Heslip open for two biggest shots of the game, both three-pointers. "

"The scouting report on Heslip is not a complicated one. He’s not as quick as most Big 12 guards, not as strong, not as versatile. He’s a long-range shooter. Deny him from catching the ball, and don’t leave him alone to help elsewhere.

In the first two KU-Baylor games, Elijah Johnson was on him much of the time. In two games, Heslip was able to get off four three-pointers and made one. On Friday, he made four of six with Travis Releford on him most of the time" - Tom Keegan (he probaby wasn't watching the game either though right?).

"I think the scary part about this matchup for KU is that Travis Releford hasn't had his best defensive games as of late."

"Maybe it's a defensive slump, or maybe Releford's ankle is bothering him more than he's telling, but he just hasn't been the lockdown defender lately that he was early in the season." - Jesse Newell.

"It's time to get that (being a defensive stopper) back." - Coach Self.

And that is all I have said, that he is not the lock-down defender that he was earlier in the year. Time to get your head out of the sand and acknowledge that. Everybody else has. You ask who I would like to see in Travis' place, my answer to that is I'd like to see the Travis from earlier in the year in his place. To be as good as he was.

Choctaw 8 years, 7 months ago

I totally agree about Travis disappearing at times. A lockdown player is there all game without plays off and Heslip should NEVER be that open on that many plays. Get it together or that gaping hole in the defense will be an early out. Just when we were coming back we played four on five defensively and got smoked. We now need to put together a string of games with five players on the floor at all times!
I don't like tournaments a lot so losing this isn't so bad but like you said ICTHawwkfan316 I really really really don't want the Tiggers walking away with any hardware as they sneak off into the night. I know a lot of you guys want to keep playing them but I will not miss the low class BS that goes on with those clowns. They have never won even enough to make a single Final Four but listening to them you would think they are Kentucky or Duke. Talk to me when you win something but until then shut up and go away. Like old Dizzy Dean said if you can do what you say you ain't braggin'. With 13 Final Fours and 5 National Championships we have a little room to brag but Missouri,,,,,,,,,?

Kye Clark 8 years, 7 months ago

  1. As Musberger & Knight pointed out during the broadcast, the difference in the game was 3-point shooting. We were out-rebounded by three, not a big discrepancy. One more turnover than Baylor. Big deal. Overall we shot slightly better from the floor. The free throws were about even before we had to start fouling. But they made nine 3s, and we made two. There's your ball game. I have mixed feelings about this. One the one hand, we're not going to be that bad normally. Against aTm we were 10-15. We're not going to be that good normally either, but we're a decent perimeter shooting team. On the other hand, last year's team was a decent shooting perimeter team. The '10 team was a decent shooting perimeter team. What was their undoing? Poor 3-point shooting on short turn-around days in the tournament. Against VCU 2-21, against UNI 6-23. We shoot to our average in those games, or against Baylor, and we win. What is it about that second game that makes us struggle so much in this regard? It's not just a case of "well, our guys' legs are naturally more tired the second day," because the same should be true of our opponents as well. I don't have any answers, but it worries me.

  2. How is it that TRob misses so many bunnies? I'm wondering if he's more than just a little nicked up. Or maybe it's just that his body is not used to playing this many minutes after being only a reserve player previously. Whatever it is, I think he is lacking lift on his jumps, and it's causing the timing of his shots to be off. Hopefully Self fights the urge to practice his guys full tilt this week and gives them lots of rest.

Anyway, just a handful of observations and musings. Here's to hoping a massive stomach virus runs rampant through the Baylor & Mizery team hotels tonight, resulting in the cancellation of the Final and thus no tournament champ this year!

Curtis Stutz 8 years, 7 months ago

I think a lot of losing the games to UNI and VCU was not just that they shot well and KU shot poorly, but that KU had very little time to prepare for a team they knew diddly squat about.

Kye Clark 8 years, 7 months ago

Eh...that's a pretty thin excuse. These teams have very little time to prepare for KU as well. It's not like they have a week to prepare for us and we have only a day for them. Kinda like the "we didn't have our legs on the second game" excuse. It works both ways.

Curtis Stutz 8 years, 7 months ago

It's also not like most people haven't seen those Kansas teams and players on TV before, or those coaches haven't looked at the way a champion coach like Self runs his team.

John Randall 8 years, 7 months ago

Yes, the other team has short turn-around also, but how many teams depend on excellent scouting and preparation for specific opponents as KU does?

Kye Clark 8 years, 7 months ago

"Yes, the other team has short turn-around also, but how many teams depend on excellent scouting and preparation for specific opponents as KU does?"

So you're saying KU's advantage of excellent scouting and preparation is taken away, so other teams are better? I would think we would also depend on having superior athletes and coaching. I'm sorry, but that excuse that it's a short turnaround is garbage.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

Bull crap. It was because KU didn't think the opponent was very good and didn't feel that they needed to put out their best effort to beat them. More talented players standing around waiting for teammates to do something great always get beat by less talented players busting their butts.

Too many mentally lazy players on this squad to think that KU has a legit shot at making a Final Four. Taylor and Robinson don't have the mental makeup of champions. They take too many plays off and aren't 100% effort all the time.

Kent Kossoy 8 years, 7 months ago

Best analysis on these rants. This team is lazy!!!

Steve Gantz 8 years, 7 months ago

And yet they had the mental makeup of champions to win the Big 12 this year? How does it work that they have it to win a two month long "tournament" but not a 3 day tournament?

You're too negative to realize that KU played a top 10 team for the third time last night and just couldn't get it done.

A very thin unproductive bench is responsible for last night. When our 6th or 7th man Teahan is a walkon who on a normally deep KU team would barely see the floor, you know we are totally dependent on our starting 5, playing on consecutive days, at the end of a long season.

You started this thread of comments with a ridiculous negative comment. Get lost.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

I wonder how UConn managed..better scouting?

Hank Cross 8 years, 7 months ago

You're right on all of the above. I regard to Rele, I'd start Young over him right now and I agitated for more minutes for Travis all last year. Besides having people knock down 3s over him on a regular basis, Travis misses far more bunnies than he makes.

The worst way we could burned in the seeding is if they send us to Boston against the Cuse. I don't they'd put us in UK or UNC's bracket. Mich State or Duke seems more likely based on past seeding.

LSHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Good because we match up better with either one. You know its quite possible that if MetU wins today they will be a #1, Go Baylor!!

actorman 8 years, 7 months ago

"As Musberger & Knight pointed out during the broadcast, ..."

I wouldn't know. I never thought I'd actually be writing this, but I sure wish I'd been able to hear the dulcet tones of Messrs. Musberger and Knight. Unfortunately, after ESPNU said on the pregame show, "We now take you to Kansas and Baylor," my TV switched to the SEC tournament -- and not just the SEC tournament but that long-anticipated matchup between Mississippi and Tennessee! (I had taped the game and was watching it after it was over, so unfortunately I couldn't check other channels to see if KU was on somewhere else.)

The Mizzou game was also supposed to be on ESPNU here, and it didn't show that one either. I checked my ESPN Full Court channels and found one that was broadcasting just the audio of the Mizzou game -- and that was the channel that was supposed to be showing the SEC tournament. So I wondered if there were some kind of weather issue that caused them to not be able to show the Big XII tournament. Did anyone else who wasn't local experience similar things?

Well, I guess if I had to miss a game, at least it sounds like this was the one to miss.

Kye Clark 8 years, 7 months ago

Bummer that you missed it (kinda anyway, like you said it might have been the one to miss).

Yeah I had seen it was supposed to be on espnU (here in Wichita, so still pretty local), and I don't get that channel so I headed out to a sports bar with my brother and ordered $40 worth of booze and food, only to see a message on the screen at game time that it had been "blacked out" on that channel, but whatever service the bar uses had located it on another channel, which turned out to be Fox. I have no idea what that was about.

Steve Gantz 8 years, 7 months ago

I live in the heart of SEC country in Louisiana, have DirectTV and watched every unfortunate second of the game. Too bad. Where do you live?

Rock Chalk 8 years, 7 months ago

I am actually local, in Overland Park, which is part of the KC Metro, and it was not on ESPNU on Time Warner. Fortunately, I have the Watch ESPN app on my iPhone, which is great in an emergency, but I was not content. I called TWC and sat on hold during the game for five minutes. TWC said it was on Metro Sports! So, as you say, the announcers indicated it was coming up, the internet said ESPNU, the guide even said it was on ESPNU, and it wasn't. I asked him how are we supposed to know that it is on MetroSports?!? He said to call THEM. grr. When this happened a few weeks ago, a poster here wrote a Mizzou grad was at the controls! I chuckled at first. I'm not chuckling now. May be some truth to it since this continues to happen with ESPN and Time Warner Cable. But CBS had issues, too, last year. Wonder if it is just KU games?

Just empathizing with you and the others. Truthfully, I had to stop watching. It was painful. It was not a win that was going to happen.

ironhead80 8 years, 7 months ago

I live in Tulsa and have at&t uverse, which I missed it all as well, looked everywhere didn't get to see KU. very dissappointed, would have been more mad if I actually seen the game.

Calijhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

I remember Roy griping about the Big 12 tournament in the years we won the regular season title. If you have a 1 or 2 seed sewn up, show up, play your bench. Let the starters rest their legs. If you win, great. If you don't, you go away with no worse than a 2, and get to rest your legs.

Other than the location of the venue, I am not sure that there is a huge difference between a 1 and 2 seed. You still have to play the team they put on the floor with you, no matter who it is. I have always wondered if fresh legs were more valuable than the Tournament Championship.

Calijhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

I remember Roy griping about the Big 12 tournament in the years we won the regular season title. If you have a 1 or 2 seed sewn up, show up, play your bench. Let the starters rest their legs. If you win, great. If you don't, you go away with no worse than a 2, and get to rest your legs.

Other than the location of the venue, I am not sure that there is a huge difference between a 1 and 2 seed. You still have to play the team they put on the floor with you, no matter who it is. I have always wondered if fresh legs were more valuable than the Tournament Championship.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

Location, Location, Location. Sprint Center didn't help us much..1-2 this year.

Vernon Riggs 8 years, 7 months ago

OKC didn't help. SAT didn't help. Let's go where the NCAA sends us and play ball.

Calijhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

I remember Roy griping about the Big 12 tournament in the years we won the regular season title. If you have a 1 or 2 seed sewn up, show up, play your bench. Let the starters rest their legs. If you win, great. If you don't, you go away with no worse than a 2, and get to rest your legs.

Other than the location of the venue, I am not sure that there is a huge difference between a 1 and 2 seed. You still have to play the team they put on the floor with you, no matter who it is. I have always wondered if fresh legs were more valuable than the Tournament Championship.

Curtis Stutz 8 years, 7 months ago

great comments from everyone so far, Baylor was given new life after a disappointing conference season, they took advantage Now Kansas is given new life, in the NCAA tournament. A loss hurts, always, never feels good, no doubt, but if makes the Jayhawks hungrier heading into the tourney so be it. Is KU going to lose a 1 seed, almost certainly, one of MSU/OSU is going to win their tourney, one of Duke/UNC is going to win theirs, MU might win the in KC God forbid. Doesn't matter, honestly I never liked the idea of a 1 seed in St. Louis, too many good teams from nearby that could be a 4 or 5 seed in KU's bracket, and also that could be a 2 or 3 seed. I was always kind of hoping for a way for KU to take down MU this year but not get that 1 seed in St. Louis, this isn't that bad of a way to do it as long as Baylor takes care of MU in the final. Out west it's a vacuum, no really good teams in the area. I'd much rather play an Elite8 game with someone like Michigan St in Phoenix than St. Louis. All that being said these guys have to get fired up, they have to get after it in practice and get ready to play the best basketball of their lives if they want to make a Final Four run. We all know they're capable, EJ is being aggressive, TT is flooring it and taking it to defenses, Withey is looking to score, and TRob is still TRob which is more than other player in CBB can say. Time to refocus, time to dance

Vernon Riggs 8 years, 7 months ago

The West first game is in Geeensburo NC. The NCAA wouldn't take that game from UNC or Duke. Methzoo, Dook or Mich St could get our #1 and we take the #2 in the Southeast and still play in Omaha. The NCAA still wants to sell tickets.

Kye Clark 8 years, 7 months ago


Greensboro has first round games in the East and South, not the west. KU playing in the west will still get the first two rounds in Omaha, which also has games in the South.

Katie Bieber 8 years, 7 months ago

This loss doesn't bother me at all. Because of the weirdness of the regular season, our top seed in the conf tourney set us on a path of having to open play with the preseason conf co-champs, then 2 ranked opponents. Mizzou's path as the 2 seed was OKST, Texas, and one ranked opponent. Not ideal. Because of that draw, and because of Missouri's performance so far, had we beaten Baylor tonight, our legs would be gone and Mizzou would totally throttle us. I'm happy to take the loss to Baylor. Congrats to Mizzou in advance for the tourney championship. Now go the $@#% away. Rock Chalk Jayhawk.

jayhawker_97 8 years, 7 months ago

it's part of HCBS plan, the way i look at it. i'm with you on losing to Baylor - and it's an honorable loss (they're suppose to have deeper roster), too, than if we'd have fallen to Mizery's bunch of minnie mice. we'll come back with more punches next games. guaranteed! r o c k c h a l k !!!

Chris Corley 8 years, 7 months ago

No one can deny we are dominant in the regular season. And kudos for that! But don't get your hopes up for the Big Dance.

The Self administration has seen some pretty awful NCAA Tourney experiences (save 2008, of course): Bucknell, Bradley, Northern Iowa, VCU. That 2007 team should have mopped the floor with UCLA and got sloppier than a mule eating spaghetti. And Self got flat out-coached by Izzo in 2009. (No one talks about that, but Izzo owned him.)

So, I can appreciate everyone wanting to look forward but, come on, the highlight of our season was securing out 8th straight with a dramatic win over Mizzery at home. And it was fantastic. Bit it's not going to get any better than that.

So, root. Yell. Cheer. But don't let it take over your life. You will only end up opening your eyes the morning after, with a sick feeling in your stomach, saying to yourself, "Did that really happen?" And every year the question itself will get less necessary as the answer becomes more routine.

By the way, Robinson is hurt but no one wants to admit it.

Here's to hoping I'm wrong about everything.

PhoenixHawk49 8 years, 7 months ago

Jesus man, why do you watch the games than? Really depressing

EverRisingHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Wow, your's is the worst post I've read in awhile. Has your sense of basketball entitlement reached such an extreme that you forsake a team for having lost in the ELITE EIGHT to a talented VCU squad, and is your outlook so bleak that you overlook a championship in '08, followed by a Sweet Sixteen appearance THE FOLLOWING YEAR? You really shouldn't post again, because that was some depressing sh!t, and - even worse - it was completely unwarranted. Go elsewhere.

Curtis Stutz 8 years, 7 months ago

Self also came in first year and took a diminished roster Roy left behind to the elite eight and a couple bad calls away from the Final Four. Losing to a UCLA team that made 3 straight final fours wasn't ideal, but when nobody can make a layup what can you do. The MSU loss came down to just not having enough scorers on the team, Collins was the only aggressor that year. Self has also taken teams with far less talent at other programs to the Sweet16 and Elite Eight, so I have to think he's got a good chance at getting this team to at least the Elite Eight don't you?

Chris Corley 8 years, 7 months ago

I hope you're right, phogphan2000. Maybe my bleak beak is just a defense mechanism for March. I just don't to get crushed again.

Curtis Stutz 8 years, 7 months ago

It's tough, but you just have to try to enjoy the ride wherever it stops. I came into this season with the belief KU could be in the Final Four. As it went on I came to the realization that the Jayhawks have a shot at the title, albeit not as good as the one UK has. Still, pretty exciting how good this team can be. Always takes a little luck, hopefully they get a few good bounces of the ball and take advantage. If they don't it's still been a heck of a year, taking 8STR8, keeping UNC 3rd in overall wins, lot to be happy about.

Chris Corley 8 years, 7 months ago

Agreed. I've decided to add negativity to the list of what I'm giving up for Lent.

actorman 8 years, 7 months ago

You're not totally off base, phogphan, but I think you're wrong about that 2003-2004 team. I wouldn't exactly call that team depleted; in fact I recall it being ranked number 1 for part of the season.

Although they no longer had Hinrich and Collison, they still had some awfully good players such as Langford, Miles and Simien. It was a strange year, with them playing so well in the first half of the season and so poorly down the stretch. So I wouldn't exactly consider that team a brilliant coaching job by Self.

Curtis Stutz 8 years, 7 months ago

Not sure if you're getting them confused with the following year's team (2004-05)? That's the team that went to Nova and got whooped, then got it together only to have Robert Montgomery Knight's team punch them literally and figuratively in the face late in the season, drop to a 3 seed even though the RPI was still #1 overall, then lose to Bucknell. As far as 03-04 I'm just saying the team had lost a couple greats from the year before, had maybe Jeff Graves as about only senior, and a coaching change following Roy Williams' departure, that's a tough nut. Self had to coach a bunch of players that were skeptical and didn't go to KU to play for him.

actorman 8 years, 7 months ago

You could be right that I got the two years mixed up. Is 2004-2005 the year that KU won for the first time ever at UK? If so, then that's the year I'm thinking of, because it was pretty much all downhill after that game.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

It wasn't that diminished...Wayne Simien, Keith Langford, J.R. Giddens, Aaron Miles, Jeff Graves, Michael Lee, Jeff Hawkins, a good freshmam class (although none made any great contributions) and a pretty decent walk-on...Christian Moody.

Benz Junque 8 years, 7 months ago

"By the way, Robinson is hurt but no one wants to admit it."

My sister was at the Texas game and said that the training staff was poking around on his legs at every break. He probably tweaked something, but who knows. The good news is that he never ran hard last night to really wear himself out. Maybe a week off will help.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago


If the players played as you cheer, KU would be .500.

Have a pair, man.

Risk something.

Live a little.

Losing never killed anyone.

Get up and swing back!

Chris Corley 8 years, 7 months ago

Agreed, Jaybate. Here's my new motto: "Let's play 6!"

cklarock 8 years, 7 months ago

I hope you're wrong, also, but I think you're probably right. That Missouri win was epic, and a hell of a way to put that rivalry to bed. If that ends up being the highlight of the season, it's still a pretty excellent season.

T-Rob looks hurt, and several of the guys look gassed. This would be part of the problem with a lack of depth -- aggregate minutes played over the course of the league leaves players exhausted and injured. Luckily, people who know what they are doing are in charge of the training and rehab, and I'm sure guys will get what they need over the next week or two.

Personally, I'm going to dream and hope just like every year, because this is Kansas, and belief is what March is all about here in Jayhawk Nation. If we play to seed, I'll be delighted (whichever seed we get).

JHawk06 8 years, 7 months ago

10point8 is a Troll

Look at all his posts (called him out last night for the same stuff)

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

I think jaybate got it right...he wants KU to win but lets pessimism win out.

No one on KU had a good game and we still almost won. I think the huge comeback left us tired.

We really need some bench production, other than EJ.

jayhawkexpress 8 years, 7 months ago

Yea really 10point8? Kansas is not a mid major.

Steve Gantz 8 years, 7 months ago

Don't forget, three of those "pretty awful" losses came after 3 NCAA tournament victories. Losing to the team that played for national titles in UCLA and Michigan state doesn't qualify as an awful loss. The only awful losses were the two back to back B's.

PhoenixHawk49 8 years, 7 months ago

I hope the fellas are as angry about their lack of effort as I was. We got out worked and that just doesn't happen to a Bill Self team. Ku players walking around on offense and defense was a strange sight to see. If this serves as a lesson to the hawks, great but I hope they remember that defense and will are going to be our keys for winning the next six games in a row!!! This has been a remarkable team that has over achieved most of our expectations. I hope we get to watch six more games. Rock chalk!!!!!

Dr. Robert s. Mosser 8 years, 7 months ago

The posters above must be near idiots. Probably understand LaCrosse but not basketball. Time off to rest the entire team should be helpful in the NCAA. This bitching about any player on a specific game just demonstrates a lack of understanding of how competitive Div I BB is these days. Syracuse lost, Kansas lost, so what?

The real test starts next week. All these guys bitching about KU BB players might spend more time being nice to to their wives and get out some of their aggression in the bedroom!!

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

Nice to read someone have an attack of sanity.

Dr. Robert s. Mosser 8 years, 7 months ago

The posters above must be near idiots. Probably understand LaCrosse but not basketball. Time off to rest the entire team should be helpful in the NCAA. This bitching about any player on a specific game just demonstrates a lack of understanding of how competitive Div I BB is these days. Syracuse lost, Kansas lost, so what?

The real test starts next week. All these guys bitching about KU BB players might spend more time being nice to to their wives and get out some of their aggression in the bedroom!!

ParisHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

I'm all for people adjusting their expectations.

Before the season, if we had been promised an 8th straight title, only 6 pre-Dance losses, Big 12 Player and Defensive Player of the Year, one of two favorites for National POY and a Cousy Award Finalist, we would have been ecstatic.

As the season progressed and despite efforts by some to "enjoy the ride", we set our expectations higher, thus increasing our chances for disappointment.

Now we've not only lost a game but looked like we should have lost. It happens.

So we adjust our expectations for seed and region, and move on. Fine.

I still don't see the advantage of being Dance defeatists: that seems an overreaction.

Bucknell, Bradley, Northern Iowa: OK, ouch!

VCU: ouch, but we were still the only 1 seed to make the Elite Eight last year.

UCLA: the most evenly matched regional final, played in their backyard with Sherron hurt.

Michigan State: we played to our seed and lost by not much to a team that made the Championship Game.

Instead of expecting to win or expecting to lose, can't we just hope?

Chris Corley 8 years, 7 months ago

I like it. After all, March is such a beautiful month, let's play 6!

gardenjay 8 years, 7 months ago

Basketball is all about confidence. If you don't have confidence, you have to find a way to get it back.

I guess part of it can be 'wanting it more'; that's a different issue. If these were the only issues, broadly, then I would give confidence 60% and 'wanting it more' 40% as the factors in the BU defeat.

I also feel that 'wanting it more' is much easier to get up for than getting confidence back. As far as learning from all this, Tiger Woods already did that for you - maybe just read up on Woods.

Come on team, make an exciting run! RCJH GO KU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gardenjay 8 years, 7 months ago

Wow, this post seemed so thought-provoking last night, but now it looks stupid and shallow. It almost seems like the more I like my posts the worse they are. Bleah.

YuCoJayHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

I also have noticed TRob's game being a bit "off" these past several weeks. He just doesn't seem to have the same jumping energy, and makes ALOT of careless mistakes, misses alot of really close shots. Maybe we just expect too much from him, but when the game is on the line this year, it seems he has delivered about 2 out of 8 times. Regardless, he still can carry this team the next three weeks, even when he doesn't have to. My second point is the wild amount of misses by EJ from three pt land....I count 15 of the 33 games this year that Elijah has missed at least four 3ptrs. With a career 3pt shooting avg of 34% and this year at 32%, it seems to really hurt the team on the nights he is missing and keeps jacking em up.... Let's hope he is hittin em every other game for the next 6. :)

ameraidi 8 years, 7 months ago

We're winning the national championship this year and that's a promise.

YuCoJayHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Also there was something eerily disturbing about that guy hitting a three and then another three to destroy comeback hopes. But THIS time the season continues.... Yahoo's bracket prediction has KU has the first #2 seed with Ohio St being the last #1 seed. That's fine with me, put us in their bracket, we beat em once, would probably do it even more handily the second time (even with Sullinger). But most likely Ohio St. would lose before the elite 8 matchup anyway....

Curtis Stutz 8 years, 7 months ago

That would be ideal, playing a 2 to an OSU or MSU 1 seed, or even better Duke, out west in Phoenix. Did anyone really want to see a 4 seed IU or Wisconsin in St. Louis which is more B1G country than Big12 country? Yes, a tough loss when the other team was hot, just have to learn to value every possession even more and maybe put more pressure on the ball when the other team is hot. If they're hitting shots anyway might as well give ourselves a chance to force a few turnovers.

Kye Clark 8 years, 7 months ago

Well, Indiana just lost their senior starting point guard to an ACL tear, so I'd be very happy seeing them regardless of their seed.

Jayhawklegacy 8 years, 7 months ago

I really wanted to see another game with missouri, I hope Baylor plays as hard against them as they did us! I would not mind Baylor beating the breaks off of them. I do feel that losing this game is the only game I could stomach losing in the B12 tourney this year

Jayhawklegacy 8 years, 7 months ago

I really would like to see any other team besides mizz holding a trophy!!!! Go Baylor!

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

We are in great shape.

We averaged 42% from trey the last two games. :-)

We got our 15% trey game out of the way BEFORE the Madness.

Self will send them out flat the first game, but we will shoot well enough to win.

He will half amp the second game.

Third and fourth games will be half and full amps.

Then we scramble into the Finals against UK.

Then we win.

hawkmaster 8 years, 7 months ago

I'm a season ticket holder & huge fan, but please don't lump me in with these posters that are typical KU rationalizers, these same fans thought it was so important to win the Big 12 tourney & beat Mizzou again, & now with the loss they rationalize the tourney is bad, both Mizzou & Baylor suck, KU should get some rest, Bobby Knight had some hand in the loss..blah, blah.

The sky is not falling, KU played bad & Baylor probably played their best game of the year, right now at this snapshot in time give Baylor credit, they are better than KU - - that doesn't mean they will be better than KU their next game or two weeks from now.

However, I agree with HCBS that a loss is never good & he puts a big emphasis on winning the Big 12 tourney, so I trust his judgement that a win was very important and a loss is not good now or for the NCAA tourney. Although, I don't think there are any meaningful stats to show teams have a better or worst shot in the NCAA tourney based on winning or losing their conf. tourney.

Still, it is not a good think this late in the season to have a team revert to bad habits, those should be corrected by now. Maybe the worst thing was to have EJ score career high 26 points against A&M, now he thinks he is the go to guy, jacking up 16 bad shots, many coming early in the possession clock without more than a pass or two, very selfish. EJ and TT shot it 31 times, and I am fine with TT getting his 15 shots. But for TRob and Withey to only get off 14 and 8 shots, that is the problem.

EJ was not the only guilty party, much like the KU loss at Mizzou, the team got selfish, EJ, TT, and TRob all took a lot of quick bad shots, KU never required Baylor to play much defense with a lot of shots coming early in the shot clock. So of course Baylor had more energy on offense & was better rested.

On the other hand, Baylor's game plan was spot on, they wore KU out by making them play defense for most of the shot clock, & then they made a large % of shots with little time left on the shot clock. I know there are a lot of Drew haters, but KU got outplayed and outcoached this game, yes, that happens sometimes!

One other issue of concern, KU's rebounding has really suffered this last part of the season. KU was very good the middle of the season & has clearly fallen off. Teams are getting a lot of offensive rebounds & 2nd chance points, that is Self's biggest pet peeve & KU can't seem to correct that. Although KU & Baylor were tied on total rebounds and offensive rebounds (14), Baylor converted more of their offensive rebounds into points.

And for those rationalizing this lost was best to allow KU to rest, pleeeeeze, KU rested last night... one more day of rest going into the NCAA tourney will have absolutely no impact on a win or loss.

Bottom line, the sky is not falling, but I'm not going to totally discount this loss, a lot of bad habits re-appeared and if they do so one more game, KU is done.

ParisHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Agree generally, except I personally didn't care that much about playing MU again, and even though there's never a good loss the extra day of rest is a bit of silver lining.

Of course, I'm the one who predicted that one of our hot 3 shooters from Wed. would stay hot the next day: I am now 0-1 lifetime on predictions.

cklarock 8 years, 7 months ago

"... one more day of rest going into the NCAA tourney will have absolutely no impact on a win or loss."

It's not just the day of rest, it's the 30+ minutes of basketball you don't have to play.

I'd rather we play today, myself, but there is something to be said for not having another game on heavy legs.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago


This is jaybatedoublemaster. :-)

High confidence about rightness, while being wrong, amuses but does not inform.

Where to start?

First, I'm glad you're a huge fan; that is all to the good. We need you. But I fail to see the relevance of being a season ticket holder in this matter. It is probably accurate to say that few equate season ticket holding with keen insight about basketball. I know two dozen bright, extremely affluent souls that don't know the first thing about basketball, have no season tickets, and begin no discussions with the caveat that they lack season tickets. And I've met some season ticket holders that wouldn't know enough to dip an inflator tip in vaseline before pumping up a basketball. So: while I can, if I work at it, muster up some envy of your tickets, I cannot transmute that envy into trust that you know diddledy-do-do about the game. :-)

Second, this team appears not to be reverting to bad habits; this is how they have played intermittently all year. When Self doesn't amp them, they come out flat and labor for wins, often sandbagging to squirt for a win down the stretch, when they have just played a game (which they just had), or when they have another game coming up soon (which they would have had had they won).

Third, the KU team shot 15% from trey, which is not surprising, since it shot 67% from trey the day before, and, while shooting only 15% from trey, they lost, which is also not surprising, considering they were playing an 11th ranked team that shot 40% plus from trey. This issue seems inconsequential to your analysis. It should be central.

Fourth, it would have been a desirable accomplishment to have won this tournament, because it would have nearly guarantied a 1 seed, which can be an easier path to glory than a lesser seed, though such was not the case for the '88, or '08 ring teams, was it? Regardless, for a team that was not even forecasted to win either the Big 12 conference, or its redundant, fund-raising conference tournament, winning either was a great accomplishment and certainly winning the conference was enough to get KU a seed that gives KU a fighting chance in the Madness. And that, lest we forget, is the paramount goal once the conference is won.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

Fifth, you seem also to minimize, or disregard, the fact that a 3 game in 3 day tournament is hardly a format favoring our fine, but thin team. Five good starters, two average players, and bailing wire need at least a day's rest between games to have a reasonable shot even at sandbagging for wins. KU clearly played pooped and injured and sick. This is not making excuses. This is mastering the obvious. This is crucial to understanding why KU lost.

Sixth, the team almost won this game, despite all the obstacles it encountered; that says a lot about the character of these young men, far more than your post allows them.

Seventh, if the team were truly reverting to earlier form, it would have jumped a head of Failor by 20, before struggling. But back when it played Failor before, it had not played a game the previous day; its point guard was not sick; its lock down defender was only fighting an ankle problem, not an ankle and a knee problem; and Thomas did not seem to be sick the previous games either, as he appeared to me to be. And I don't recall KU shooting 15% from trey the two previous Baylor games either. Yet these merit little or no consideration on your part.

Eighth, calling Elijah selfish is absurd and IMO offensive and unnecessarily disrespectful. Elijah has been one of the most unselfish glue players on the team all season long and there is absolutely zero chance that he took all those shots without Bill Self ordering him to do exactly as he did. Self, to my knowledge, has never sat on a bench and let a player take 16 shots Self did not want that player to take. Quite the contrary, Self is known to have a short fuse about that sort of thing. Here again, you seem to disregard that Tyshawn was sick, and that EJ, though he was hot the previous day, could still have gone 6 of 6 from trey against Failor and still have been shooting back to his average. Self gambled on EJ and lost; that's all. EJ hardly deserves to be called selfish for doing what his coach appeared to want him to do.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

Ninth, your notion that Failor held the ball in order to force KU to play defense for the entire shot clock seems implausible based on what I watched. Most of the game, it appeared that KU's defense forced Failor to keep looking for a shot for nearly the length of the shot clock. It was not until the end of the game that Failor began deliberating with the ball. I saw no signs of Failor turning down open looks to hold the ball for 30-34 seconds before shooting the first 20-30 minutes of the game. It might have been clever to try what you suggest. Other teams have tried it. But I saw no evidence of it versus Failor.

Tenth, Self was perhaps not at his best vs. Failor, but then he had a fairly limited number of cards to play, didn't he? Taylor: admittedly sick. Thomas: fouled up and probably sick. Releford: a still weak ankle and a recently tweaked knee. KY: coming off the bench with only a so-so game. Justin: seeming either sick, or hopelessly confused, or both. Naadir: bringing not just nothing, but serious negatives in just a few seconds of play. Self's entire team being out jumped, even the last 15 minutes when they turned it on, and generally fatigued from a grueling season--what would you have had Self do differently? He tried some diamond and two. He had them preemptively running transition to avoid the expected bad trey shooting. Rebounding? Its hard to run transition and not release Travis from rebounding. When Travis was released, we had trouble controlling the boards 2 against 3. When Travis was sent to the glass, we rebounded well, but got no easy transition baskets and could not hit the trey, so they packed in on our bigs, who then struggled to score. MacArthur could not save Phillipines, no matter how clever he was. Self could not find a way to hold off Failor without at least 5 healthy players. Is this a serious failure on Self's part? I look at it differently. Scottie "I want to shake your hands when I win but run past you when you lose" Drew aka Scottie the Weasel had everything his way, all the advantages one could have as a coach, and he still nearly coached his team out of a win.

Eleventh, any loss risks eroding a team's confidence and momentum it is true, but it is reductive of you to say there is no benefit to this loss. The team is mentally and physically exhausted and anyone with a tin thimble of reason recognizes it. An extra day of rest, plus not expending a major amped effort, absolutely is a huge benefit in any universe where human beings play basketball in the flesh and blood. Jesus, man, surely you can buy that!! And KU was riding a high tide of feel good. This certainly will refocus them.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

Twelfth, it is splitting analytical hairs too finely to say whether it would have been better to have won the conference tournament and get the 1 seed with all the psychological and physical cost of getting it for a thin team, vs. going out now, getting a 2 seed and coming into the tournament with more energy and perhaps more healed players. It all depends on the match-up advantages in opponents that would have resulted and on how much this team can rest up and heal with the extra time. Self won conference and tourney last season, and saw his "deep" team get gassed and beat early in the tourney vs. VCU. Maybe he's learned his lesson about leaving it all in the conference tourney. Still, my best guess is that it probably would have been better to win and be a 1 seed, but you never know for sure in the what-if guessing-game. What if KU had beaten Failor, then played MU and Taylor, or Robinson had broken their ankles, because they were playing exhausted, and went out for the season? There's no way of knowing any of these counter factual eventualities, so in the end it is fruitless to say it would have been better to beat Failor, or to have lost to them, in the grand scheme. All one can say is we lost, and we've got to make the best of it. Part of making the best of it involves emphasizing guarding as Self has. This is a defensive team, first, last and always. Part of it involves suggesting maybe it was a good lesson for us, without being to specific about what the lesson was, as Self has. And part of it, if you're the coach, involves keeping your mouth shut about how happy you are that your team will have an extra day of rest and healing and one less full amp game to recover from.

Except for those that inherit their wealth, the world is run by those that convert lemons to lemonade most efficiently, and, when possible, beg, borrow, or steal monopoly control of doing it, not those that recognize lemons and reductively and errantly harp on what caused them. This coach and team have a great chance to make some lemonade here.

And they have it regardless of whether you have season tickets or not.

And whether I am Jaybatedoublemaster to your hawk master, or not. :-)

Rock Chalk!

John Randall 8 years, 7 months ago

JB2M, this is evenolderfart. ;-) Good Lord, man, your propensity for making each point three ways is well known – please don't rub it in by numbering the points, even ordinally. 1) Did I get it? Some know diddlysquat, some don't. Goes for Wms Fund or anyone else. Doesn't morph either way. 2) Coach can mitigate habits, less when fatigue enters in. 3) BKnight got it right that this was one game where 3-pointers mattered. 4) After 16-2, no big deal to slough one off before getting to single elimination. 5) Too pooped/sick/hurt to force something not really needed makes sense. 6) Nothing as bad here as 'master' wants to say. 7) Look, guys, we got excuses. See you in Phoenix. 8) No profit in maligning Prophet.
9) Women's (30 sec) shot clock is fairer to good defensive teams.
10) We don't play our best when gimpy, pukey, without relief. 11) Reduce has other antonyms than oxidize. 12) Next two weeks (and, gods willing, a third) depend on playing with what we're dealt. Thanks for bringing 'transmute' and 'reductive' back into my active vocabulary.

kusayzone 8 years, 7 months ago

This team needs to remember only one thing more loss, and this team will never play again together. That being said, I dont want to see the bashers of individual players rise their ugly head. One more loss, and your head will blow up because you have nothing else to blow about!

MinnesotaJay 8 years, 7 months ago

Regarding this loss, my concerns are expressed as follows:

Phew. Okay, glad I got that off my chest.

John Randall 8 years, 7 months ago

Very nicely stated, despite the redundancy.

catfiche 8 years, 7 months ago

It was Baylor's camouflage uniforms. KU couldn't find the Baylor players to defend. (Of course, it would have helped if they'd have been looking for them.)

chipmunk1956 8 years, 7 months ago

Count me as one who's really not that concerned about this loss. If for no other reason, I didn't want to give Missery braggin rights over us on their way out the door. All things considered, at this point in the season, this loss is relatively "harmless." Just my $0.02... In the words of Lyle Lovett...

Given that true intellectual and emotional compatibility Are at the very least difficult If not impossible to come by... We could always opt for the more temporal gratification Of sheer physical attraction. That wouldn't make you a shallow person... Would it?

Brian Skelly 8 years, 7 months ago

My one fear all year has simply been that after Robinson and Taylor this team has no consistent scoring threat. It's come and gone all year. Sometimes its Johnson -- whom it should be all the time -- but he's far to inconsistent to assume he can do it all the time. Sometimes its Withey... who had that great little 3-4 game stretch where he looked like a world beater. But beyond that stretch he's be totally unreliable offensively. That guy needs to hit the weight room in the worst way. Releford has certainly had his moments, but he's not asked to be a bigger score... his job is to lock down the opponents best swing guy... which he's maddeningly inconsistent at.

The rest of the guys on the roster is essentially role players. Which makes the fact we've won the conference 8 straight seasons even more impressive. Self deserves the credit and the accolades for getting this team to accomplish this. But personally just have trouble seeing us getting much farther than the 1st weekend -- which we will, but beyond that I mean.

Of course ALL of this also assumes Taylor and Robinson are firing on all cylinders, or close to it. If that goes out the window... so do the Jayhawks.

area51 8 years, 7 months ago

Just what I wanted. To heck with the big 12 tourney we allready won the regular season title. Get rest and get focused for the tourney that counts!!

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

Area 51,

Is it true Area 51 was set up as a decoy for a real Area 51!

actorman 8 years, 7 months ago

One thing to keep in mind for all the people who are panicking over a conference-tournament loss: Since 1985, there have been 23 national champions who also played in conference tournaments. Of those 23 champions, only 12 of them had also won their conference tournaments. That should help to confirm what most people already know: that there's no connection between how a team does in its conference tournament and how it does in the Madness.

Michael Bratisax 8 years, 7 months ago

50%+...I think that's statistically significant. I wonder the % of teams who lose in the 1st round, 2nd round, etc.

And no correlation? Just not true. Ask Texas or UConn last year. For many's win or NIT (or nada).

Ron Franklin 8 years, 7 months ago

BlownThoughts from an optimist trapped inside of of a pessimist.

I'm okay with losing for 3 reasons:

Glad we lost to Baylor, and not to Mizzou. Mizzou would have rung our clocks tonight. You think the Jayhawks looked tired against Baylor..ha...Mizzou would run circles around them, and likely turn it into a blowout. Mizzou has four Brady Heslips.

The boys get one more day of rest, and one less game on their treads.

And I'm kind of sick of hearing that '22 year old's don't get tired.'. Seriously? Do people really believe that? I'm still in my 20's and play in a league with guys from 18-25. Kids get tired. And with the Hawks--it's not just Basketball games. There's continued weight conditioning, classes, & social life these guys are dealing with. 22 year old's don't get tired my @$$.

And the last reason I'm okay with the loss: it looks like KU went ahead and threw out there 3 pt aberration of a game....2 fo13. Sounds like UNI or VCU to me. Glad to get that statistical outlier out of the way with only 6 games left on the schedule.

These guys need to rest and refocus, especially Thomas. His play has declined over the last three weeks. Coincidentally, with the news that AD will be receiving the NPOY award. I know that bothers TRob. He's competitive, and I understand that--but he is letting it negatively affect his play, IMHO. Refocus and play within the team. Let the game come to him, because he has been forcing the action lately.

I think this team is worthy of a #1 seed, but I also think that there are 5-6 other teams worthy of it. A 2 seed is realistically where this team is, and where I believe they will excel in the tourney.

I'm predicting a sweet 16 run. I said before the season, I thought this team would end up with 8-9 losses before even getting to the Big 12 tournament. I picked them to go 14-4 and lose the conference to Baylor 15-3. These guys have already exceeded my expectations. Now it's time to just enjoy it.

The hardest part about losing the last game wont be about losing,to me. It's the fact that ball season is over and I have to wait 6 months for it to return.

Rock Chalk!

John Randall 8 years, 7 months ago

Just to quibble about something – it looks like only two teams are worthy of #1 seeds, but the committee is forced to fill two more from the 5-6 worthy of #2.

rockchalkxii 8 years, 7 months ago

"We got our 15% trey game out of the way BEFORE the Madness."

I really hope you're right.

Kye Clark 8 years, 7 months ago

Well, we all suspect that you are the expert about choking from things being in your throat...

cklarock 8 years, 7 months ago

Hahahahahaha, nice one, icthawkfan316.

leonard 8 years, 7 months ago

IrishCharlie got caught trying to sneak in a panty burp. Nice job of sticking a cork in it.

Kye Clark 8 years, 7 months ago

This was my favorite comment from the post-game discussion, from the poster JayhawkFanToo:

"It never ceases to amaze me all the band wagon fans coming out of the woodwork to criticize KU. People that have rarely seen post suddenly become the board oracles."

To you scrubs who almost never post on here except after a loss to brilliantly tell the rest of us how bad this team is - just save it. It makes you look like trolls. I know, I know. You never post but that game made you so angry because it was "embarrassing" and so bad you just had to come on here and enlighten the rest of us with your expert insight. It's a shame Tyshawn didn't have one of his poorer games, because I'm sure you have one of those "it's all Tyshawn's fault" posts locked & loaded for just such an occasion.

Look, I get it. After a loss it hurts, you're disappointed, and need to lash out. Even I generally have a little more to say after a loss. However, go have a juice or something if your only urge to ever post comes after a loss so you can tear down Coach Self or the guys on this team just to make yourself feel better. That is what is really embarrassing. When you post your drivel the collective group of die hard fans on here take step away from you, as if to say "he's not with us," because you're making us look bad. Get over it and try to enjoy the last few games with this group, as opposed to writing your next "scathing" criticism in your head while waiting for them to lose again.

Steve Gantz 8 years, 7 months ago

I was noticing that on the live update last night. A bunch of negative comments from people I've never seen before. New members are always welcome of course, and I sure don't mind people critical of the team, but several people are posting last night when we're down by 5 points with 4 minutes left that we're done. Who gives up on a team when they're losing by 5 points with 4 minutes left? Only trolls do.

Ben Simonett 8 years, 7 months ago

The reason find this loss concerning is because we lost this game for the same reasons we lost to UNI and VCU: perimeter defense.

I guess its best to get this skunk game out of the way now, i just hope its not a foreshadow of how Self's going to trip up in the tournament again this year.

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

I don't know if the Baylor uniforms were a distraction for us - but ours DEFINITELY were not a distraction to them. They really didn't give a crap that ours said KANSAS, even though we were thoroughly impressed with that.

No fire. No hustle. No desire. Big surprise that we lost.

"We spanked them twice already, we'll spank them again today." Great March mindset.

I had a bad feeling when they announced the whole Tyshawn Cousy award thing. I'm not blaming this on TT either - just saying that it seems to me that the whole team has this attitude of " We've got Cousy finalists, POY finalists, Defensive Player of the Year, Coach of the Year, blah blah blah - we're so awesome nobody would dare think of ruining our party by beating us".

I've seen that many posters are OK with this loss. I'm happy that it's OK with them. It's not with me. I don't like to lose.

Unless we win the National Championship (highly unlikely at this time) we're going to have 7 losses this year. That is awesome !! If you're K-State. Or Iowa State or about 250 other schools. That's more losses than our last two seasons combined. I'm not OK with it.

This is Kansas! We win - it's what we do. I hope we lose the "we're so great" attitude and get the damn "chip on the shoulder" attitude back soon. I want to spent the next few weeks in front of my TV, not out working in the yard.

Kye Clark 8 years, 7 months ago

Well, we had 11 losses in '88.

Really if 7 losses in a down year is too much for you, I'd say you're destined to experience more disappointment than enjoyment following KU. You can't compare this year to the last two years. Despite what this year's team has accomplished, it is still at a personnel disadvantage. It's why Coach Self won Coach of the Year, because he overachieved with this bunch, not because it was just time to give it to him again for maintaining the status quo.

I'd ask you to go back to the beginning of the season and ask yourself how many losses did you think this team was going to have, and how far do you think they'll get in the tourney. To me, if they get to the second weekend of the tournament, they will have met my expectations. If you had them penciled in for a National Championship, well again...probably going to be in for a lot of disappointment.

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Like I said, if you're happy with 6 or 7 losses that's a great advantage for you. I'm not.

I understand your philosophy about expectations for the beginning of the season. You probably don't read a lot of my posts, because usually I'm just having fun and making smart remarks, but I actually AM a real KU fan. I said at the beginning of the season that I was looking forward to it and had high expectations because of the fact that we were not as deep and that our guys might actually have more of a rhythm by getting to play more minutes.

The past couple of years, we've had so many "stars" that I think Coach felt obligated to run players in and out every 3 minutes to make sure everyone got enough playing time.

I didn't have them "penciled in for a National Championship" - but I also didn't have them penciled in to just show up with Kansas on their uniforms and expect everyone to lay down and die.

Kye Clark 8 years, 7 months ago

Oh it's all good brother...I know you're a real fan (not one of the people who only comes out complaining after a loss). I read most of your posts; a lot are quite humorous.

As to your point about you expectations, I agree that not being 10-deep has helped this team. Self hasn't had the luxury of the quick hook, and I think that has helped this team. It is a double-edged sword, however. Because of the lack of depth, the team is more susceptible to fatigue, nagging injuries, etc. I think that is at least partially to blame for the loss on the second day of the tournament.

I don't know that it was a case of them showing up thinking they would win because they had Kansas on their jerseys, but there probably was some over-confidence from manhandling Failor twice before. Human nature, and Baylor finally played a decent game against us. But if I was looking at that team at the beginning of the season and you told me we'd beat them 2 out of 3 times this year, I'd probably take it.

Trust me, I'm not happy with any losses, but realistically I am not down on this year's squad because the lack of depth has capped my expectations.

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

ict - I completely understand.

I read your posts and I know that you have a very good understanding of the game. I appreciate that.

I probably shouldn't even post after losses (thank goodness there aren't that many to worry about) but I guess I am a sore loser!

One of my favorite quotes is: "Above anything else, I hate to lose" Jackie Robinson

I know that, as KU basketball fans, we are very spoiled and I'm glad of that. It's just that, to me, losing begets losing. Meaning that the more you lose, the easier it is to get used to. I suppose in very rare cases, it's true that there is such a thing as a "good loss". I don't think this was one of them.

Anyway, It really doesn't matter to me whether we're a 1 or 2 seed. I haven't checked lately, but you referenced the '88 team and I think we were a 6 or 8 seed then. It doesn't make a dang bit of difference what the seeding is REALLY, if you peak at the right time, are determined and stay healthy anyone can go far.

Ask Butler !!

Anyway - I'll be watching with eager anticipation tomorrow and will be rooting on our Jayhawks for all I'm worth.

Orangedog87 8 years, 7 months ago

Agree with bennybob and nuleafjhawk....I dont want to be out working in the yard either this month..that can wait until the first Tuesday in April. Besides today would have been a better day if KU were playing BB....against anyone.

mispayku 8 years, 7 months ago

I wasn’t OK with it either. Last night I was furious! Not so much for losing but for lack of effort. As fans we never want to see a lack of hustle/no passion in March. I’m with you...I want the “chip on the shoulder” attitude back! In all honesty, I came into this season prepared for much heartbreak but as the season developed I gained much respect for this team and decided to throw caution to the wind—“we are pretty damn good” finish the sentence: when we want to be. It’s now the morning after and we are spoiled fans, so I’m going to toss out my spoiled attitude and hope for the best in the upcoming weeks; however, my caution flag is up. For tonight, I cheer on Baylor! Here’s to hoping our Jayhawks can play to their potential and make a respectable run in the tournament.

eway12 8 years, 7 months ago

  1. Least concerned I've ever been about a KU loss in March.
  2. Like EJ going to the rim.

Saturday - day off to rest Sunday - watch some tape, get a few shots up, more rest Monday - watch some tape on first round opponent, more rest Tuesday - hard, intense practice Wednesday - shoot, rest Thursday/Friday - put on your shoes

KCKJayhawkSS913 8 years, 7 months ago

This is a good loss. Better to lose now than in the ncaa's.

jayhawkexpress 8 years, 7 months ago

KU loss is good from a strategy point of view. We are not a mid major, not built to play games on consecutive days. This team is built for the long haul.

KansasComet 8 years, 7 months ago

Not one negative comment about our sixth man - incredible!!!

theend 8 years, 7 months ago

I don't care too much about last night.....but I will say this: If KU plays like this next week......they will be the first #1 seed to be beat by a #16. That's not a prediction.....that's fact.

Last night......we saw the team that everyone was saying before the season.....KU would be average and finish 4th in Big 12.

YuCoJayHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

oh come now. I think the result last night was more a consequence of Baylor being a very good team playing exceptionally well, than it was KU playing bad enough to be beat by a 16 seed. Baylor was at one point 17-0 and ranked #3 when we beat them down the first time. LARGE difference between Baylor beating us and #16 seed. The sky is not falling...

John Randall 8 years, 7 months ago

Were you trying to get two wrong predictions into one sentence? Neither #1 seed or first round loss are in the realm.

Choctaw 8 years, 7 months ago

Take a long, deep breath and let it out...... There. Now that we all feel better remember why we play this game. MARCH MADNESS is here! And we are in great shape to have some fun. Just like we spoiled Jayhawk fans are every year. It's good to be a Jayhawk!

theend 8 years, 7 months ago

Interesting how TRob plays like crap when he thinks NBA scouts are watching.

And don't tell me about his 15 points and whatever rebounds......he was terrible last night.

Colin Fernandes 8 years, 7 months ago

Perry Jones 111 MVP Big 12 Championship as Baylor crushes Misery - The end

kennethst 8 years, 7 months ago

I agree with above......I have long been terrified of KU being the first #1 to lose to a #16. It's going to happen.....and I fear it will be KU to be the first. Especially given past chokes in recent years. If they play like last night.....I agree they will absolutely be the the first.

I would have no problem being a may be better for them anyway.

How did they go from the A&M game to the Baylor game????? Wow. Looked like two different teams.

And from what I could hear on TV......the fans at the arena were not a factor. I know it's nothing like AFH.....but still.....come on!!!

jayhawkexpress 8 years, 7 months ago

Easy now, got to give Kim English props for calling us out. He's right and repectable enough to say like it is.

Kye Clark 8 years, 7 months ago

Huh? Kimberly English is a tool. He hates our fans because we have National Championship banners from 1922 & 1923? Because we rightly claim 8 straight Big XII titles? And you think he's right?

Time to check yourself.

theend 8 years, 7 months ago

I absolutely agree with you. Where is it written that Kim English is so wonderful and we must never say a critical word about him??? Why?? Because he has a speech impediment? I'm sick of all this "political correctness"....I don't care about his speech impediment......I don't like him. He has said nothing but trash about Kansas......and I have zero respect for him because of that and that only. Sure.....he's a very good player.....I give him that. But he should quit trashing kansas and just play basketball.

John Randall 8 years, 7 months ago

I agree with express (and KE). Doesn't mean I think what they say is R.I.G.H.T, just that is S.O.

Micky Baker 8 years, 7 months ago

It is very difficult to beat a talented team 3 out of 3. That won't happen in the NCAA Tourney.

I still think KU gets a number 1 seed, Syracuse lost yesterday too. KU's strength of schedule, Regular season champs. Only thing that would keep it from happening is a Duke ACC Championship, in my opinion, but if UNC and Duke both lose in the ACC Tourney before the Championship game...

A number 1 or a number 2 seed isn't going to matter in the big picture though. You have to play eventually a team near a top seed, most likely to advance to the Final 4. Does it matter if KU is a number 2? Not really. They have to go out and beat the other top seeded teams which will be the same if they're a number 1 or number 2.

Number 2 though, makes them less of a target. Can't wait to get the bracket tomorrow though. I see at least an Elite 8 in Kansas' future, and this was supposed to be a rebuilding year.

kennethst 8 years, 7 months ago

I prefer a #2........#1 has not meant much to KU in recent pass.....except for 2008 of course.

Take the target off them a bit.,......we'll take #2 just fine..

And Wow would I be sweating that game if they are #1 vs the #16......This KU team is good but not great. They could lose to a #16.....that would be devestating. Don't think it could happen? Think again....Bucknell? Bradley? UNI? And how about Holy Cross almost beating KU??? And they were a #16.

eway12 8 years, 7 months ago

I can't stand when everyone talks about that UNI loss as the most absurd upset ever experienced in the tournament. I watched them play earlier in that season and they were better than most teams in the big 12 that year. They also were ranked in the top 25 near the end of the season. They never should have been a 9 seed and they were better than most of the 5-8 seeds so it is ridiculous to compare them to a 16 seed.

kennethst 8 years, 7 months ago

Wrong. With the talent KU had that year......UNI may as well have been a high school team. cant stand it, eh? Deal with it.

eway12 8 years, 7 months ago

what was "wrong" about any of my statements?

Redlandsjhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

The only "downer" thing I will say (or have ever said if you're keeping score) is that I agree with Tyshawn that I hate that that's always our excuse too. (coming out flat).

But as far as I'm concerned we are totally playing with house money this year for a change and it's gonna be even sweeter when we hoist the NC trophy!

Rock Chalk All!!

Enjoy what's left of this great ride!

flyingfinn 8 years, 7 months ago

I like most KU fans do not like to lose and are disappointed with our play yesterday, but really believe this team will come out with a chip on their sholders and make a run in the tourney. Don't know if they can win it all but they will still surprise us as they have done this season. Don't forget Syracuse also lost yesterday and I agree with what Coach Knight said on TV, I don't like post season conference tournaments they only take away from what teams have earned during a long conference championship battles.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 7 months ago

1] 27-6 2] Potential POY and sure All-American 3] Discovered a 7'-0" beast for next season 4] Coach of the Year 5] In Top Ten most of the year 6] Potential Cousy Award winner 7] Beat Misery in maybe the last game with them ever in spectacular fashion. 8] Poised to do some damage in the Big Dance 9] Oh yeah, almost forgot....Eighth Straight Conference Title.

What's not to like about 2011-2012???!!!!!

Steve Brown 8 years, 7 months ago

give me another rebuilding year like this one, every year.

Mike Kendall 8 years, 7 months ago

10) One of the best posters on this site. What's not to like when one goes to this website?

Thanks, Oakville!

Andy Godwin 8 years, 7 months ago

This team has to play lock down defense to be successful. As coach Self has said in the past, the first to 70 should win. They can win playing ugly, but it has to start at the defensive end since this team lacks consistent scorers. A long season, a lack of a productive bench is clearly taking a toll. It is fortunate that the players are relatively healthy this late into the season. Although you are only as good as your last game, losing last night will unfortunately drop KU to a second seed if MU wins today. Nevertheless, the extra day off may actually help this team if they decide to come out motivated day one of the tournament and get back to the basics of playing great defense.

Steve Brown 8 years, 7 months ago

NC State long shot to upset UNC today, may send UNC west and put KY into Atlanta. Good for us, increases our chances to get Saint Louis as #2.

First we have to get out of Omaha, keep focus on the imediate goal.

If you are able get yourself and pals to Omaha buy up all the sidewalk scalper tickets, keep the arena Crimson and Blue and out of hands of Black & Gold. Bring the Rock Chalk chant to the house.

Go Baylor- send Tigers to SEC with a good whuppin' not a trophy.

ferrari4eva 8 years, 7 months ago

KU is nearly a lock for #1 in the West. People are getting way too wrapped up in the one or two games of the year. Its about the entire body of work. Look at Kus wins shading top 50 teams and strength of schedule. I will be shocked if the one seeds are not UK, syracuse,unc, and KU. Rock chalk its already been a year to remember muck Fizzou!

Brian Skelly 8 years, 7 months ago

Look, if before the season had started folks had told you we'd win the Big 12 by a couple of games you'd be thrilled. And we should be considering the drop from TRob/Taylor to the #3 guy (whomever it is - we still dont know really).

And considering we dont know who that 3 guy is - presumably EJ, but who knows... isnt this team getting to say... the Sweet 16 something that would be worthy? Id say yes, but Im likely more realistic than the Final Four or bust folks.

All this in an "off" year for KU. Gawd I love being a Jayhawk.

sekjayhawkfan 8 years, 7 months ago

This post is directed to ESPN spokesman Mike Humes, who was quoted in a 2/21/2012 news article reporting how screwed up ESPN and Time Warner Cable were with the airing of Big 12 Big Monday games earlier this season. (BTW - If I could find an email address for Mr. Humes and the email addresses of Big 12 leadership then I wouldn't be posting this here!!)

Dear Mr. Humes:

So we're KU fans living in Southeast Kansas and we --- along with everyone else in our community who doesn't have satellite reception (with the Altitude Network !!!!!) --- are trying to figure out WHY you didn't broadcast the KU vs.Baylor game last night on ESPNU as listed/promised on the online schedule --- and as listed/promised on our cable television screen listing?!!

Geez! It was a #3 vs. #11 game, we live in the Big 12 footprint, and we got SEC basketball instead????!!!! Wondering why? Seriously!!??

If we had wanted to watch the game on ESPN3 --- with grainy video and halting audio --- then we would have turned off our 52-inch HD unit, popped some popcorn and had our dozen guests squeeze into our 8x8 foot home office to watch it on our 18-inch computer screen!

At the very least, please don't list games on your broadcast schedule when you can't follow thru with televising them! That way we'll know IN ADVANCE that we need to find someone/some place that has satellite before tip-off!

Oh --- and by the way --- feel free to air your SEC Tournament in Columbia, MO, and College Station, TX, next year! Those people might be interested --- BUT WE CERTAINLY ARE NOT!!

kittygrom 8 years, 7 months ago

That's a bummer. I live in CT now, so I miss quite a few games, but I'm surprised that I would get ESPU's Big 12 feed and you wouldn't! If it's any consolation, as much as I love my Jayhawks, it was one of those games I wish I could unsee. :(

KULA 8 years, 7 months ago

These guys look tired. Missed threes and getting beat to rebounds is a sure indication of tired legs. It's just as well they'll get an extra day of rest. They have nothing to gain from another knock-down drag-out grind with Mizzou. They should have a 1 seed sewn up on the basis of winning the Big 12 by 2 games. At least over Mizzou, anyway. Wouldn't be surprised to see the committee try to sneak Duke in there along with Carolina. But another game with Mizzou only further drains their already depleted batteries, emotionally and physically. Best to go home, get a day or two's rest, and recharge for the real tournament. Who needs another emotionally charged game with Mizzou?

theend 8 years, 7 months ago

Very tired. Couldn't shoot, either.Played better in 2nd half and had a nice comeback.....but yes......they did not look good at all for the most part.

They bring that game next week? Done......first game.

Jeff Coffman 8 years, 7 months ago

A few points: The Championship week has always and always will be focused on in/out and not seeding. Only if there is a question beforehand will there be an adjustment.

KU was a #1 seed before the tournament, they leave as a #1 seed. Texas was out before the tournament, Texas is in after the tournament. BYU was in before the tournament, BYU is out after the tournament.

KU is a #1 seed in the West. SU in the North, UNC in the South. UK in the Midwest. I think there will be a story of MU and UK because they will be facing each other in their midwest as future SEC opponents. UK will prevent MU from making its first final four.

KU will get favorable matchups in the West, because there aren't any good teams out west and they will send teams that just didn't do enough out west. I'm guessing that a scary Marquette will sneak in as a #2 seed.

I've said that Missouri will be a #4 seed and it still wouldn't surprise me, but a #1 or a #2 seed would definitely surprise me. Dan Beebe will trade KU as a #1 seed and UT in the dance for Missouri not getting a #2 seed (basically a #3 or #4 seed).

In addition, I said it before that I would have been surprised if KU and MU faced off in the championship, to beat the same Top Team Team in one season is a tough feat. Baylor has had its slip up, but Scott came to win the tournament. I think the tournaments are more exciting for the non-BCS schools (gets them into the dance).

kittygrom 8 years, 7 months ago

Bummed about the loss, it happens. Baylor was so quick...I thought we looked great for the first 5 minutes, then everybody seemed exhausted. Most surprised by Withey, he really just seemed out of it, poor kid! Wanted to say I was so impressed by Kevin Young, and really looking forward to seeing what he does next year! :)

monkeehawkSL8 8 years, 7 months ago


theend 8 years, 7 months ago're right.....this will not be a popular post. Not only unpopular.....stupid & pointless, too. Maybe you should to a Mizzou fan board? Sounds like you would be more comfortable there.

KULA 8 years, 7 months ago

If you give enough monkeys a typewriter, one of them will write "Hamlet." You're not that one.

kennethst 8 years, 7 months ago

You're pathetic.....what a bunch of drivel. Hilarious that you talk about "class" and have none. I agree with 'the end'......get oof this board. It's for KU fans.....not you. Loser.

Kye Clark 8 years, 7 months ago

You almost had me there for a second, as I too was ticked when Heslip did those gestures. Not that I would ever root for Mizery, but I could at least see where you were coming from. Then your babbling spiraled out of control. You're ashamed of trash talking in sports? Go watch rec league ball at the Y then. "Barf blah etc." at our accomplishments? That combined with the fact that you're rooting for Mizery tonight makes it entirely plausible that you're an Antler troll. I'd say you cleverly disguised it by feigning to be a proud that Eddie Sutton thought enough of our players to come shake their hands, but looking at the form of your post - no capitalization at all, repeatedly referring to a "loss" as a "lose" ("the typical ku lose", "our loses are better than yours") - I am pretty convinced you're anything but a loyal KU fan.

But hey, at least you called it right out of the gate - it was unpopular!

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

I don't know about "popular", but it really isn't even coherent.

I gave up trying to make sense of it after the first two sentences.

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago


Something about Eddie Sutton flashing gang signs and rooting for Missouri tonight.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

"Some Possible Explanations for the High Number of Despairing Posts After the Lost to Failor"

~In an utterly random universe, KU players suddenly lost all knowledge of how to play the game well.

~In a non random universe, DARPA project erased KU players memories and they suddenly lost all knowledge of how to play the game well.

~In a conspiratorial universe, Mossad, MI-6, phony Rebels of Arab Spring, and corporate security for Krinklebein's Fish and Chips conspired to slip KU players brain decay tablets and caused KU players to suddenly lose all knowledge of how to play the game well.

~In a hopelessly polluted universe, reputed neuro-carcinogins in top secret Coca Cola recipe interacting with aging-keg-mold- residue in Canadian Mist consumed by players at recent barn party caused KU players to suddenly lose all knowledge of how to play the game well.

~In a rock-will-be-the-undoing-of-civilization universe, KU players attended a rock concert with a sound system that blew memory function out of their brains and KU players all suddenly lost all knowledge of how to play the game well.

~Antlers getting serial aliases again.

FarSideHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Not too bummed about this loss at all. I think it is good that they did against Baylor and not Mizzou.

It will give the short rotation an extra day of much needed rest.

I would gladly take being the strongest #2 seed (against weakest #1); that will fuel the motivation of this squad.

Geography plays a role, but I remember losing several times in our preferred regions too, so not a big deal in the end.

This has been a fun year and a pleasant surprise.

Let's see how it goes from here on out.
Rock Chalk Jayhawk!

PS I'm hoping Kentucky doesn't lose in the SEC tournament and I hope their freshmen really believe that they can show up and win. If they do lose now I think they are going all the way.

theend 8 years, 7 months ago

Good point about geography.......and it certainly did nothing for them last night!

hawkmaster 8 years, 7 months ago

jay master bate, you really are one of the most uninformed buffoons on here, and apparently you have no life given your superfluous rebuttal to my intent was not to analyze 100% of the game because I do have a life!

Let me just point out one obvious oversight on your behalf which indicates your knowledge of basketball can be put in a thimble.

You state - - Fourth, it would have been a desirable accomplishment to have won this tournament, because it would have nearly guarantied a 1 seed, which can be an easier path to glory than a lesser seed, though such was not the case for the '88, or '08 ring teams, was it?

(and guarantied...really!)

Thus you state the 2008 KU championship team was NOT a No. 1 seed, how do you miss the obvious for which even the most remedial KU fan is aware. THE 2008 KU TEAM WAS A NO. 1 SEED IN THE MW REGION, DUH! In fact, the 2008 NCAA tourney was the first time that all No. 1 seeds advanced to the Final Four, and KU beat NC (the overall No. 1 seed in the semis), and then advanced to beat Memphis in the final (Memphis and UCLA were the other No. 1 seeds).

You really lost all credibility with that fatally flawed oversight, please go back to Jayhawk 101 and come better prepared next time if you want to debate with the big boys here instead of just vomiting your blog!

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

Dear submissiveHawk,

Tisk, tisk, ad homming while being reductive about (and so also ducking) the validity of the rest of my points. :-)

Who has ever let you out of a meeting where money was at stake without taking every last cent your father made for you, eh? :-)

(Note: don't get your skivvies in a wad, we're just having a little fun here. You ad hom me and I get to ridicule you. Its all in good fun.)

I know I would take your money and sleep well.

Repeat after me: don't get mad, don't get even, let them get dad's money. :-p

Seriously, now, you are a little reductive on everything aren't you?

(Note: again, this is all in good fun. You ad hom me and I ridicule you. Its just good natured jibing, right?)

Only a dimwit, or second generation wealth, thinks an entire argument is refuted by finding a non-crucial error and blowing it up to fake critical proportions. Which are you? I'm not ad homming you here. I really want to know. Which are you: a dimwit, or second generation wealth? :-)

(Note: And remember, whatever generation of wealth you are, even if it were zero gen, I would one up you, because this all about having fun, about you ad homming me and me getting to ridicule you for it, right?)

Next, tell me seriously, you don't really think that my error blows all, or even most of the validity of what I wrote and ridiculed about your magical thinking and phony command presence, submisssiveHawk.

Tell me you don't.

I was raised around command presence. You lack it.

Tell me you know you are trying a lame and unpersuasive rhetorical device that only nitwits, or second generation wealth, like to try at boring parties where dullards popping Viagra try to shag their golfing buddies desperately lonely wives, rather than see a shrink about why their kids are prodigals.

(Note: again, we're just having fun here. You ad hom me, and I ridicule you.)

Puhleeesse, say you really do know that my error doesn't impeach even a whit of the validity of what I asserted about the reductive thinking and magical thinking in your posts.

Tell me you know you are completely wrong and resorted to the kind of counter argument that works with persons one can fire, but no one else.

Tell me you know you are unpersuasive, when it comes to this argument, and that you don't really expect me to do anything other than laugh with and at you.

Tell me you don't impose this kind of insipid rhetoric on your family over the dinner table.

Tell me you have a pair of something other than season tickets.

Tell me.

Tournament time approacheth.

All of my life hinges on what you think. :-)

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago

While a frustrating loss, given that we looked flat in the first half, then couldn't finish out after showing life in the second half, I have to admit I can't get that upset about it. Really, only two things bother me:

1) I don't ever like to watch KU lose. If it was my choice, KU would have won every single game I've watched.

2) The team looked a flat to start the game, and it's never a good thing when that happens in a matchup of (almost) top 10 teams in a tournament setting. Also, I think it may have contributed to KU's poor night shooting the three, which as icthawkfan316 noted, was essentially the difference in the game.

The only real concern here is whether or not KU's lack of energy was due to fatigue, or due to the game being essentially bragging rights only (against a team we had blasted twice). In the context of Self's stated goals for the season (B12 reg. season title, NCAA title), it's plausible that lack of urgency had an effect. However, if it's fatigue, then there is room for concern that this team is vulnerable to the same thing we've seen in recent years--losing to a team we should be when we shoot well below our average from deep.

As far as how this loss will affect the NCAA tourney seed... I'm unconvinced it really matters. Sure, KU will possibly (and likely) drop off the 1-line, after UNC/Duke or OSU/MSU take the 3rd and 4th slots. However, I think that the committee is too erratic to make any solid assumptions on what to expect seeding/location-wise for teams like KU--solidly in the 1/2-seed conversation, regardless of how they finish. We've seen 1-seeds be shipped off to play in their region's 2-seed home market. KU (1) had to play UCLA (2) in California in 2007, and Oklahoma (1) had to go up to Albany, NY to play Syracuse (2) in 2003.

It should also be noted that losing a 1-seed, if it happens, might end up making the team feel slighted, which is always a good way to instill the kind of "we'll show them" attitude that can lead to great basketball. Certainly less flat basketball at the least.

(to be concluded...)

Sam Constance 8 years, 7 months ago


Lastly, as much as I would've loved to beat MU again and keep them from getting the B12 tournament trophy before leaving for the SEC, I can't say I'm terribly miffed about not getting to play them. I liked the way the rivalry ended in basketball, with Good sending Evil off with the sour taste of the most crushing kind of defeat one can experience. Combined with the mirror-image game in Columbia, that has to be the only way this could have ended, right? Speaking of history, jow many times have KU/MU even played each other in the Sprint Center? That would be a stupid way to end it, and if MU happened to win, MU fans would ignorantly talk about having "eternal" bragging rights, somehow believing that a single win makes up for the tragically lopsided disparity towards KU in the on-court results and accolades.

No MU, we'll see you later. When someday we decide that there is a large pile of money involved in creating a rivalry game--maybe once every 7-10 years when you have a nationally-acclaimed team. Enjoy 1st or 2nd place in the B12 tournament. I guess you aren't "knocking on the door" any longer, though I don't know if you could qualify this as "bustin' i-iiiiiin"...

Who knows, maybe Baylor will continue this whole "playing up to their talent level" thing and actually dominate MU with their size and athleticism, like we all thought they would at least once during the regular season.

I, for one will be glad for the players' extra day of rest and bruise to the ego, to make for a solid first weekend performance out of them. Hoping for a dual-championship in the Big 12 out of this team, especially in a year with two other top-10/15 teams, always seemed a little lofty to begin with, so let's see what they can do in the Big Dance. Hopefully it will involve lots of fat ladies. And a chorus of singing.


brooksmd 8 years, 7 months ago

I agree with the extra day of rest. Our starters need it. Winning both regular season and tourney would be nice, but to me the Big 12 tourney and its automatic bid is only important for teams in the bottom half of the conference. As tough as the Big 12 always is, you can pretty much count the first four or five as automatic qualifiers. The tourney is just more wear and tear that a team like Kansas with a short bench doesn't need.

KansasComet 8 years, 7 months ago

What I learned from the game last night is we do not play well on zero days rest. Kansas players will get called lazy, unfocused, injured, soft, losers, etc....and that's just from the Jayhawk Fans! I am not proud of some of the things that I have said in frustration, so, I apologize. This team needs our support and the time is now!!! Let's go T-Rob, let's go Tyshawn, let's go Elijah, let's go Jeff, let's go Travis, and let's go Jayhawk Bench! Know your role, embrace your role and give your all. We are all cheering for you, no matter how upset we are!! Next week will be cheers instead of jeers. Go Jayhawks!!

Tom Wilson 8 years, 7 months ago

It is tough to beat a good team 3 times in the same season. When KU won the NCAA championship in 1988, we beat a team (Oklahoma University) that had beaten us twice during the regular season. If the 1988 Sooners and the 2012 Jayhawks could compare notes as to how they felt before, during and after their losses (i.e., to teams that they had handled twice during conference play), I would bet the similarities would be abundant. Sounds like Baylor played its best game of the year. The only downside, to me, is not being able to give the Tigers one final whipping before leaving for the SEC, where their expectations, with the graduation of all their seniors, have to be below sea level. Hopefully, we'll see the Tigers again in about 20 years in the NCAAs.

Ethan Berger 8 years, 7 months ago

Why is Anthony Davis running away with the poy? SEC is only better then pac 12 because of UK. We should have the number 1 if Duke doesnt win the acc tourney. This east coast bias is at its worst this year

monkeehawkSL8 8 years, 7 months ago


Jayhawklegacy 8 years, 7 months ago

A number 1 or 2 seed really makes no difference. It depends on how tough our bracket is. I'm excited to see who will be in our bracket I think this year the B12 is very well represented! Anyone else not wanting to see Wichita State in our bracket?

Kristen Downing 8 years, 7 months ago

Miami Herald reporting yet another Frank Haith recruit suspended. The comments are priceless about Haith.

Jayhawklegacy 8 years, 7 months ago

Duke is on the verge of a semifinal exit! They had 14 turnovers in the first half it will be a shame if FSU lets this one slip

kellerman411 8 years, 7 months ago

Missouri is going to destroy Baylor, there's no doubt about that.

Let's look at KU's number 1 seed resume anyway:

Fact #1 - KU won one of the toughest conferences in the nation by 2 games. Fact #2 - KU lost in the semi-finals to a #11 ranked Baylor who they have beaten twice. Fact #3 - KU won 4 of 7 matchups against top 10 opponents.

Go find 4 teams who can say that.

texashawk10 8 years, 7 months ago

I posted my thoughts about this team on another article, but I'll post here too.

This is a team with major flaws with the most notable being the lack of a consistent 3rd scorer and will only go as far as EJ and Withey take them. Releford has been non existent on offense for the last month and I'm pretty sure his legs are bothering him more than he or Self are letting on. We know Taylor and Robinson are going to get theirs just about every night and that'll be enough to beat a 15 or 16 seed, but not necessarily after that.

I feel pretty sure KU is going to be out west in Phoenix with Michigan St. as the 1 and 2 seeds. I believe KU is tentatively sitting on the 1 line out there for now, but I believe if Michigan St. beats Ohio St. tomorrow that they will get the 1 seed and KU will be the 2 seed out west. Normally I prefer being the 2 seed out west because of the weakness of the teams out west, but there is one team that should be out west that I think is more than capable of knocking KU out early and that is St. Mary's. Dellevadova is a great PG and St. Mary's is playing great basketball right now. I hope St. Mary's somehow gets shipped out of the west, but I honestly think they are the best team west of the Rockies this year and will be kept out west and if they get a 7 seed, KU is going to have a very difficult time getting past the weekend. I hope they get a 6 seed so that KU can at least make the Sweet 16. I'll be fine with wherever KU is seeded as long as St. Mary's is in the other half of the region because I think they are more than capable of beating KU on a neutral court.

Orangedog87 8 years, 7 months ago

Baylor letting Missouri walk free with Big12 tourney hardware...but then so did KU

wildjayhawk 8 years, 7 months ago

We can't be surprised at the final out come of this team as the experts said before the season started that KU has not be recruiting good players and that KU is completely out of the ball park when recruiting. They said that KU wasn't even in the top percentage of the teams and it showed as we have seen. It looks like it isn't going to get any better in the coming years which we have seen by Tharpe as a point guard. Many people have said that what is Self doing? Dick Vitale said it best when he said, this is the worst Ku team I have ever seen, at the start of the year. Tharpe looks l ike to be another Morningstar, total flop. Ku better hope for a 2 seed, as they will not win in the first round if they are a #1. It has been said that if KU gets a #1 seed that Bucknell, Bradley and Northern Iowa wants to be in the same bracket at a #16 against KU. The selection committee will study their request. This is on Self's head, poor recruiting. Poor coaching for a big 12 coach of the year.

Kye Clark 8 years, 7 months ago

One of the dumbest posts I've ever read. Hey troll, do a little research first. Bucknell, Bradley, and UNI aren't even in the tournament this year. The selection committee will study their request? Not even a nice try, just a waste of space. Nothing else in your idiotic post even warrants mentioning.

Orangedog87 8 years, 7 months ago

Way to go Baylor and Kansas let Missouri walk away with Big12 tourney hardware and possibly a # 1 seed...sad sacks

Orangedog87 8 years, 7 months ago

Rooten Hawken KU .....enjoy your individual awards and do no more....

BillSelf4Prez 8 years, 7 months ago

Hahahahaha what a bunch of losers chanting SEC at the Big 12 championship game! LOL the big 12 shouldn't give them the trophey.

danmoore 8 years, 7 months ago

Spin it anyway you want Forrest but the conference tourney is a consolation prize. We won the real hardware when we beat you two weeks ago.

Kye Clark 8 years, 7 months ago

Just ignore him. It's the same lies every time. He says he wins money, has a bunch of made-up quotes from ESPN personalities that never actually happened. You can't argue with someone that lives in a fantasy land, where they make-up their own reality.

SaltLakeHawk 8 years, 7 months ago

Congratulations on your big 12 tournament championship. It's an accomplishment that I'm sure your team will take pride in, and rightfully so. This is by far the best MU team I've seen in years, and by far the weakest KU team I've seen in years. Despite this, KU still got the better of MU this year (as always), and you're delusional if you think otherwise.

Big12 Regular Season Championship > Big12 Tournament Championship.


But don't let facts get in your way. Go ahead and argue otherwise. You have that right, just like a 4-year-old has the right to say "the sky is green" and "1+1=3." Heck you could even say something like "MU has been to a Final Four."

And remember what happened last time MU played KU head to head? MU fans get to enjoy that memory forever. Enjoy that. The history books will always make special mention of that game, since it's the final game in the series. Way to "put it to us."

History will also highlight a very important statistic:


That's pure, undeniable ownership, my friend.

KansasComet 8 years, 7 months ago

Well said! I also love the initials of "my friend", well played!!

danmoore 8 years, 7 months ago

What has to be truly painful to Missouri fans is in spite of fielding what is perhaps their best team ever they were still unable to keep us from winning our 8th conference title. And it was a down year for us too. This was the best chance they could have hoped for and they won’t get another shot.

But they were the bridesmaid and for that I hope they get a 1 seed. Then they will get a small inkling of what it is like for KU every year. It’s easy to go to the big dance and play with no expectations. It’s entirely different when you are supposed to win. Last time Missouri was this good they did not fare well under the pressure and lost in the second round to Northern Iowa, Norms’ old team.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 7 months ago

Got Rings?

Jayhawks have been sleeping well since winning the conference two weeks ago.

Shame those Tigers never quite got it together enough...

MrPilot 8 years, 7 months ago

Perry Ellis...Landen Lucas...Zach Peters...Anrio Adams...Andrew White...

Vic Janeway 8 years, 7 months ago

Withey did not shine, you could tell he is no match for anybody with talent. He is too clumsy and takes too much time on his shots. Achilles heel for tourney....dang.

Kristen Downing 8 years, 7 months ago

Good luck trolls, no plans tonight losers?! Read the Miami Herald article about your coach and his three players that have been suspended for illegal benefits. The comments called your coach an oily car salesman who skipped town before the "stuff" hit the fan. Total class. Speaking of class, do you think Syracuse will be chanting ACC? MU needs to get a life and leave with their mouth shut. Usually the biggest mouths denotes insecurity about the decision.

Bill Shaw 8 years, 7 months ago

Can we make sure that the Big 12 Championship is never held in Missouri again?

Kye Clark 8 years, 7 months ago

I wish, but I think it's already booked there for the next two years. That and Self keeps pandering to KC with his comments to the press, so who knows?

Kye Clark 8 years, 7 months ago

Must suck to be a troll! I'm proud to say I've never once trolled another team's message boards. Why would I? Congrats on the tournament championship that nobody cares about. Finally! We are rid of them! No more Mizery in the Big XII. As much as I would have liked for us to have been in the finals to beat them, this is still a day of celebration! The Big XII just got 100% more classy with their departure.

To get the discussion a little more back on track after the string of troll posts, here's a few other items of note from Saturday:

  • Congrats to Captain Tad on a remarkable job with the Buffs. Loved seeing him kick Sean Miller's teeth in. Good win for the Jayhawk family. (Maybe Boyle is moving his way up the list in the hypothetical debate of "who would you want to replace Self if he retired tomorrow?").

  • Dook lost. Always a good thing.

  • I kind of liked seeing Pat Knight get Lamar into the tournament. He endeared himself to me with his press conference where he called out his seniors, in true Knight-family fashion!

  • Joe Lunardi still has us as a #1 seed, just moved us out West. That actually doesn't bother me too much. Still should get the first two rounds played in Omaha. And playing out west is only a problem when you're the higher seed but the committee has basically arranged it as a home game for west coast teams (i.e. 2007 against #2 seed UCLA). As there are no really great teams to fear out west (although SDSU and New Mexico are potentially dangerous), it's not a big deal. Not sure what else could really change the seedings at this point. MSU & Ohio St. playing in the Big Ten finals tomorrow, but I still think they're both #2 seeds. If we are a #2 seed, that doesn't bother me either.

Anyway, like I said earlier I hope the guys are taking full advantage of an extra day's worth of rest. Rock Chalk!

JayHok 8 years, 7 months ago

Sorry to read about Frank Haith in the Miami Herald today. More trouble. Bad timing for the Big 12 conference. Makes the whole Big 12 look bad. Between Pinkel, Haith and Alden going off about his love of the Big 10, the SEC must have a few mixed feelings also.

Didn't the guy in jail admit that Haith knew about payments to star players?

I'm still curious how in the world Mizzou let this hiring go through, especially considering the MU fan reaction when Haith showed up on campus. Protests, online petitions.

Now today the Miami Herald won't even let Haith or the MU fans enjoy a moment of success.

Tough day to be a Tiger---will Haith be fired after the NCAA investigation. That could be the most interesting sports storyline of summer considering Haith will lose all of Mike Anderson's all stars.

texashawk10 8 years, 7 months ago

Missouri did hire Quin Snyder over Bill Self back in the day so clearly they have a history of making poor decisions.

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 7 months ago

Honestly, I'm fine with how things worked out. KU has a ring that says Big XII champions, and Baylor and Mizzou were there tonight fighting over our scraps.

MU has won the tourney before (With a worse team than this year) so this isn't unprecedented.

Live it up Tigers, this is the closest you ever got to winning the conference. Just don't forget to kiss our ring on the way out.

Hammertoe 8 years, 7 months ago

Jealousy is terrible envy. Don't hate Mizzou as we move on to a bigger and better conference. Football is King. Basketball is the warm up band for Football. The next TV contract for Football will be huge for Mizzou and the SEC while KU will be sucking up to Texas for many years. Without Texas, Ku is in the Mountain West with K-State. Wake up. Accept reality.... Haith is fine. He will make more money in the next year than the average Ku grad in a lifetime... probably get a new contract after this year. A win and a trophy is the perfect ending for Mizzou in the second tier Big 12 conference. SEC is where the money is at.... Let the Party begin! SEC! SEC! SEC! If Ku had an invitation to join the SEC, they would have taken it in a second!

Benjamin Piehler 8 years, 7 months ago

Also... enjoy Fake Paddies Day enough to forget you're a KState fan?

danmoore 8 years, 7 months ago

But you wanted to be in the Big 10 remember. It would have been perfect except for one thing. They don't want you. Talk about envy.

jaybate 8 years, 7 months ago

"Notes About Fizzou Wasting a Peak Effort and a Rest Day Beating Failor in Order to Get the Same Seed KU Already Has Locked Up"

~Failor shot 26% from trey vs. Fizzou (after shooting 40%+ vs. KU) and got beat by 15. Compare this with KU shooting 15% vs. Failor and only losing to Failor by 8 or 9.

~Failor got out-stripped badly by Fizzou

~Failor barely shot 40% FG.

~Failor failed.

~Fizzou beating Failure means zip.

~Fizzou, regardless of its seed in the Madness has zero chance to win the tournament and here is why: Fizzou depends on being awarded about 30 FTAs per game in order to beat an opponent. Fouls are not called in the tournament, therefore, Fizzou's greatest offensive advantage will nullified by the refs. Therefore Fizzou will exit early.

~Fizzou will go to the SEC and get stuck having to win conference tournaments to try to get into the Madness, just as has always been the case in the Big 12.

~Fizzou will be a .500 team next year and its coach, reputedly involved with recruiting improprieties and his prior school, may be under sanctions his first season in the SEC.

~Failor will fall off sharply also.

~KU will will win the national titled this season, then get better next the conference title, of course and perhaps a second national title in a row.

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