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Monday, March 5, 2012

Keegan

Kansas’ season amazing

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Statisticians armed with state-of-the-art calculators still were busy finding a definitive answer to Saturday night’s burning question when Bill Self shut the door on an amazing regular season.

Before getting to Self’s words, the burning question: During his Kansas basketball career, has Jordan Juenemann logged more minutes on the court playing in games or speaking after Saturday’s Senior Night game? The answer is a) playing. He has played 99 minutes, and the speech didn’t last quite that long. Honest.

Now, back to how Self closed the door on a regular season that ended with Kansas sporting a 26-5 overall record and 16-2 Big 12 mark.

“It’s been a great run, but we’ve had enough pats on the back about winning the league,” Self said. “That’s over.”

Considering Kansas lost just two games during the expanded Big 12 schedule despite having just one returning starter (Tyshawn Taylor), more back-patting was in order. Some of that arrived in the way of Big 12 honors revealed Sunday. Thomas Robinson was voted Player of the Year by the league’s coaches, Tyshawn Taylor first-team and Self co-coach of the year with Iowa State’s Fred Hoiberg.

Regionally, the three men most responsible for KU’s astonishing season have earned just recognition.

Nationally, only Robinson has earned enough praise. Self, a prisoner of his own success, seldom is mentioned in conversations about national coach of the year, and Taylor, despite outplaying a handful of the nation’s top point guards, doesn’t inspire first-team All-American talk.

Baker University coach Brett Ballard, whose Wildcats play tonight against MidAmerica Nazarene in the Heart of America Athletic Conference tournament title game in the Cook Center in Olathe, doesn’t take either man’s contributions for granted.

Did he expect the Jayhawks to win the Big 12?

“I didn’t,” said Ballard, former KU point guard and assistant coach. “I didn’t. I watched them practice in October, and I know coach is a great coach, and I knew they’d get better, but I didn’t think there was any way they’d win the league. I didn’t see it.”

What made the Jayhawks overachieve?

“Jeff (Withey) has gotten better,” Ballard said. “Thomas (Robinson) has played great, but the guy who’s just blown me away and still isn’t getting enough credit is Tyshawn. I mean, it’s just unbelievable the level he’s playing at.”

Ballard said he thinks Self’s winning eight consecutive conference titles deserves more national attention.

“What an incredible feat that is,” Ballard said. “And I hope KU fans don’t take it for granted because I feel sorry for whoever the next coach at KU is going to be. I mean, there’s no way you can live up to those expectations. It’s incredible what he’s doing. Incredible.”

Comments

Benjamin Piehler 2 years, 6 months ago

All I know is we'd never be where we are tonight if TT was playing like he was at the beginning of the year. It's a group effort, of course, and he wasn't the only one who improved... But still. Many of the talking heads at ESPN picked us to finish third or fourth in the Big XII this year. Kudos to Bill Self for taking another "undermanned" team and getting the most out of the them. We'll be tellinig stories of the vanquishing of Mizzou in Allen for years after. It's a great time to take a breather and look back at all the skeptics this team has silenced.

You come at the king, and you'd best not miss.

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planojayhawk 2 years, 6 months ago

Was it just me, or did anyone notice all those sweet floaters that TT scored in last Saturday's Texas game?

If he can keep making these (reminded me of what Miles Simon used to upset us in the 1997 NCAA tournament), alone with his amazing shots when he drives, and his treys, we should have a good chance of going all the way in this year's tournament.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk!

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Mike Bratisax 2 years, 6 months ago

The difficulty level of that shot is off the chart..and he makes it look easy.

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John Randall 2 years, 6 months ago

Whoever can make that shot makes it look easy – that's part of making it, soften the touch so the rim works for you instead of against.

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JayDoc91 2 years, 6 months ago

Realizing he could pull up and shoot the floater, instead of slashing/jumping without a plan, is what changed TT's season. Apparently his final 9 credits were in playing smart basketball.

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Alohahawk 2 years, 6 months ago

+1 Now watch the defenders pretend to flop from a foot or more away when TT drives the lane.

While watching the Duke vs N. Carolina game last Saturday, I thought it was hilarious that every other play was a flop by a Duke or N. Carolina player. Even the announcers commented on the number of fouls/flops being called. It was so obvious what the defensive players were doing. And yet, the refs continued calling charges.

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2 years, 6 months ago

Speaking of flopping and Duke, this link someone posted a week ago or so is kind of funny:

http://www.frumpzilla.com/image_gallery/dukefloppingcamp.pdf

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hawk316 2 years, 6 months ago

Tyshawn is exhibit A when arguing for the advantages of staying in school four years. I know. A handful of players are actually ready to leave early, but the vast majority would benefit greatly by giving themselves the opportunity to develop and mature over a four year college career.

And what a treat for us fans to be able to watch a young man grow up before our eyes, both as a player and as a man. Tyshawn, thank you for the journey, and congratulations for a truly remarkable senior season.

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Mike Bratisax 2 years, 6 months ago

Marcus is a big surprise..I thought he would find immediate success in the NBA. Cole is a different story..he needed another year. Hope they invested well.

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texashawk10 2 years, 6 months ago

Marcus got drafted into a bad situation for him to get early playing time. He was always projected as a 3 in the NBA and he got drafted to team in the Rockets that that were already fairly deep at that position and they drafted another player in the second round in Chandler Parsons who was a 3 in college so his transition was easier. I fully believe we'll see Marcus make major improvements next season when he actually gets time to practice and learn how to play the 3 in the NBA. This year because of the lockout, teams are lucky if they can have 1 practice a week which means Marcus doesn't get any opportunity to practice and learn the position this year.

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amatxjayhawk 2 years, 6 months ago

That was a very cheap shot at a young man whose tenacious efforts should be celebrated. We need another Juenemann a hell of a lot more than we need another Keenan, or even the Keenan we have now for that matter.

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Jim Roth 2 years, 6 months ago

Relax. It was just harmless teasing about the length of his speech.

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Matt Gauntt 2 years, 6 months ago

Ditto. Classless comment from Keegan.

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jhox 2 years, 6 months ago

I'm guessing Juenemann will get the humor. Lighten up, people.

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Steve Corder 2 years, 6 months ago

That was my first reaction too.

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Ludwig Supraphonic 2 years, 6 months ago

Even in middle age I still struggle with the urge to make Sophomoric comments at serious moments. Fortunately, my failures are documented in print. Thank you for your great work as a Jayhawk, Jordan. Senior night is not a commercial venture; like the Oscar's. There isn't a time limit, so the sponsors can sell doritos.

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ModerateOne 2 years, 6 months ago

There needs to be a time limit. That's the point.

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Hurinfan 2 years, 6 months ago

It was a joke and he was being facetious. Get over it.

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Mike Bratisax 2 years, 6 months ago

I think some are putting far too much into the statement. Thin skin if you think that was meant as a 'cheap shot'.

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John Randall 2 years, 6 months ago

There is a definite need for two extra fonts: •• sarcasm •• tongue-in-cheek

unless the other users of this board can tweak their perception index the way Tyshawn has his driving the lane.

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Lance Hobson 2 years, 6 months ago

You guys are too thin-skinned. Jordan talked for eight ridiculously long minutes. EIGHT minutes. What could he have had to say that was so important for eight minutes? The fans were waiting for TT to speak, not the walk-on. I get it, he's worked hard and helped us in practice, but get off the floor. It's about knowing your role, and walk-ons don't talk longer than starters and certainly not for 10% of your entire career's worth of playing time! There is an old fighter pilot saying: "Never pass up an opportunity to keep your mouth shut." In that, Jordan failed miserably and gets a playful jab from Keegan that he knows he deserved it 100 percent. As far as Teahan's 13 minutes, perhaps someone should buy him a soapbox for a senior gift. Really people.

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mattiesdad 2 years, 6 months ago

Almost all of his articles end abruptly. Par for the course.

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ahpersecoachingexperience 2 years, 6 months ago

All of his articles end abruptly. But it's usually because I read one or two paragraphs and can't take it anymore so I stop reading and jump straight to the comments.

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oldrocker 2 years, 6 months ago

Haha...that's funny! I commented last week that I usually enjoy reading the comments more than the articles.

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John Randall 2 years, 6 months ago

(insert tongue in cheek) Once the word quota is exceeded, why prolong the ordeal? (remove tongue from cheek)

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madamhawk 2 years, 6 months ago

Wow...8 straight conf titles...in the Big XII, after losing 3 seniors and 3 to the NBA last year...after losing 3 incomers to academics...playing 2 former walkons...Wow!

I'm just taking this quiet moment and trying to metabolize what we have witnessed.

Just. Ridiculously. Amazing.

I couldn't be happier even if you tied me up, tied me down, slapped me on my a$$ and called me Susan. Well... Big XII tourney and naty trophies would be acceptable ;)

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KU79 2 years, 6 months ago

Hey Sue...I'm happy too, but I'm not slapping you on the a$$. ;-)

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John Randall 2 years, 6 months ago

nor anything else you'd like me to do with it. I do have standards, low as they may be.

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Billy Derringer 2 years, 6 months ago

+1000-this is movie material if we could just make a run!!!!

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KPOP 2 years, 6 months ago

not sure if you can "metabolize" a thought, but good luck trying. While you do that, I am going to work on a strategery to win more games and pass it along to Coach Self.

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John Randall 2 years, 6 months ago

Why has no one else on here thought of that ???

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leonard 2 years, 6 months ago

We lose Morris, Morris, Morningstar, Reed, Little, and Selby from last year's conference champions and No. 1 seed...and replace them with Young, Wesley, and Teahan.

Bill Self as COY? Hardly...he should be named Coach of the Universe!

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actorman 2 years, 6 months ago

+1000.

I for one will never take the Big XII streak for granted, having gone through five years as a student without a single conference championship. I have tremendous appreciation for what Self has been able to (and continues to) accomplish.

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Lance Hobson 2 years, 6 months ago

Let's just mention the twins here and maybe Little as a role player. Morningstar held us back for years and Reed never amounted to much and certainly not in the tourney.

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SDSurferFan 2 years, 6 months ago

Self deserves to be up for COY.

However.

What is lost from the previous year is highly irrelevant IMO. It is what he has. He still had a pretty good thing coming back.

Highly recruited 7ft with upside.
Very good bench player that is now an all-American. 4 yr starter at point guard. Strong role player. Good 2 guard. Jr, Jr, Sr, Sr, Jr. This is KU we are talking about. There is never a rebuilding year.

Self molded, shaped, coached, motivated, etc. He deserves a ton of credit. Just doesn't matter who he lost, it's what he still had. A very good team, that could be great!

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april28 2 years, 6 months ago

Actually, here's what he had:

Erratic, turnover prone point guard with a history of questionable decision-making both on and off the court 7-footer who played only as a last resort Power-forward who was foul-prone and did not start last season Shooting guard who had rarely played and rarely contributed Red-shirt junior small forward

No knock meant agains these guys, but let's not try and reshape history with make-believe statements about who they were.

In spite of the preseason accolades, not even TRob was a proven entity going into the season. These young men have come a long, long way and deserve tons of credit. But if you are going to recognize coaches then there is no coach in the country who has done so much with so much unknown.

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Ed Brown 2 years, 6 months ago

+1 Calling not only as you see it...but as it was. I am totally in awe with what HCBS did and the combinations and flexibility he imparted with that drive to get better every day. Let it continue!

RCJHGoKU

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oldrocker 2 years, 6 months ago

I agree april28...there were a ton of question marks coming into this season. I think a couple of reasons we were better than expected; Danny Manning working with the bigs, and the fact that this year's starters were playing against future NBA players every day in practice.

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Alohahawk 2 years, 6 months ago

Churchill said it best: "Never have so few, done so much, for so many." (The many being the Jayhawk Nation.)

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Lance Hobson 2 years, 6 months ago

Ah, the Battle of Britain. Figher pilots. And they didn't talk for eight minutes when they landed!

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UmbertoConforti 2 years, 6 months ago

Ballard is right. Self may be as hard to replace as John Wooten was/is at UCLA. How long has it been since Wooten was coach there?

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gdkadjayhawk 2 years, 6 months ago

John Wooden coached at UCLA from 1948 to 1975. Seven straight national championships and 10 total national championships between 1964 and 1975.

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actorman 2 years, 6 months ago

Apparently he wasn't successful enough for Umberto to spell his name correctly. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

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John Randall 2 years, 6 months ago

I once taught at the high school named for Thomas Sprigg Wootton, whose initiatives brought about the first instance of establishing counties in a colony by a Representative Assembly, and also naming those counties (Washington and Montgomery) for American statesmen instead of British muckety-mucks.

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rcr 2 years, 6 months ago

Not mentioned in this article was the fact that JeffvWithy was named Big 12 Defensive player of the Year. I guess TK didn't think that was important enou to deserve a mention. Congratulations to all.

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John Randall 2 years, 6 months ago

Well, since coach Self doesn't put much value on defense . . .

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Andy Tweedy 2 years, 6 months ago

Self can't coach or recruit...I know this because I read it on this board all the time! Sarcasm aside, great job coach! And great job players! Always easy to be a Jayhawk during basketball season!!!

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Kyle Rohde 2 years, 6 months ago

As proud as I am of Self and how great KU played this year, Frank Haith got robbed for Coach of the Year. To get that team, with only 7 scholarship players, to buy into his system and have Mizzou's best team likely in the past 20 years is remarkable. While Self's coaching was incredible, the fact that he had such a lackluster team to start with was his own fault for failures on the recruiting trail. Haith is in his first year and had to win with Anderson's players. That, to me, is more impressive so I would have given the nod to Haith and Hoiberg together.

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Navyhawker 2 years, 6 months ago

Nothing against Haith, he has done a great job (only good comment Mizzou will get from me), However, he came in to Mizzou with a a experienced team, heavy with Seniors and Juniors that made an Elite 8 run. Haith was fortunate enough to fall into a once in a lifetime Mizzou team. Coach Self all the way!

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Robert Brown 2 years, 6 months ago

It certainly appears that the coaches decided to snub Haith and MU. Actually if Coach Self won COY outright, it wouldn't have seemed as a snub as it does with Hoiberg getting co COY over Haith. Actually, all three did great. If you compare actual results with expectations, you would probably go Hoiberg who was picked for eight and finished third, then Haith who was picked fourth, then lost one of his best players and finished second and in the Top Ten nationally. KU was picked to win the Big 12 and did. What was different was that the Big 12 was stronger than expected and by Christmas, KU looked liked the 4th best team in the conference. KU wins conference by two games.

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Kye Clark 2 years, 6 months ago

KU was picked to win the Big XII back when the coaches thought Braeden Anderson, Jamari Traylor, & Ben McLemore were all going to be a part of this team. If you're going to qualify Haith's accomplishments against his expectations by including the loss of Bowers, you have to include the losses the KU roster suffered after being picked as league co-champs. After those 3 were deemed ineligible, no one was picking KU to win the league, but the preseason polls were already out.

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Joe Joseph 2 years, 6 months ago

"...the fact that he had such a lackluster team to start with was his own fault for failures on the recruiting trail."

...so, doesn't this make his "coaching" effort even more outstanding this year?

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Kyle Rohde 2 years, 6 months ago

Yeah, but I'd give Haith more credit for coaching up somebody else's team than Self for coaching up the lackluster (by recruiting rankings + pure talent) team he has this year.

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JayHawkFanToo 2 years, 6 months ago

What happens if Bower is not lost for the year? I am going to guess that MU plays with a more traditional lineup and never gets the success it achieved this season. Haith lucked out into a four-guard lineup that presented a match up problem for most teams. This is similar to the 40-minutes-of-hell gimmick; it was successful at the beginning, but once teams figured it out it did not work so well. Anderson certainly tried for years and did not win a single Big 12 title. MU will not have next year the personal to run the same system, and teams will figure out how to march up, so I believe his success will be short lived. Haith had upperclassmen laden team and still could not win the conference. On the other hand KU lost:

Little - Playing professionally in Europe. Morningstar - NBDL. Mc Morris - NBA, Houston. Mk Morris - NBA, Phoenix. Reed - Played professionally in Europe. Selby - NBA, Memphis.

That is six players getting paid to play professionally. Let's see what Haith does next year. when his seniors are gone and he is playing players he recruited. His past record would indicate he will not do that well. I have no problem with HCs Self and Hoiberg sharing the Coach of the Year award.

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brooksmd 2 years, 6 months ago

Actually Haith will probably do better next year as the SEC is not exactly a top bb conference.

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JayHawkFanToo 2 years, 6 months ago

How do you figure that? MU will not beat UK, so it will not win the conference any more that it did in the Big 12. So, best case it finishes second in a weaker conference; I would not consider this to be better.

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John Randall 2 years, 6 months ago

Big12 COY is an annual award, yet every comment about Haith refers to coaching someone else's recruits, previous record in another conference, anticipated embarrassment in yet another conference . . .

Pure and simple, he did one hell of a good job with what he had and where he was THIS year. Give the man his due, he earned it.

No doubt, some voters were influenced by conference reallignment and resentment of MU, but none of that is a reflection on the coach.

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Steve Brown 2 years, 6 months ago

rohdek, when Robt. E Lee turned down Lincoln to be head man for the Union troops, they didn't erect a statue of him on the great mall in D.C. nor give him a trophy, Fact is they captured his farm without writ or legal right to do so and turned it into a cemetary. You may have heard of it, Arlington.

I say take over Columbia and turn the whole town into a cemetary.

By the way your couch is on fire on your front porch. Prediction, any march dance where they have SEC refs, MU will advance. bank it.

Chuck Neinas reports that Muwho pulled some cra)) during their exit that wasn't pleasant. They not only left but slammed the door. I didn't read a report of this but heard him live.

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Steve Reigle 2 years, 6 months ago

Juenemann deserves a pat on the back for his contribution to this team, especially his contributions behind the scenes. His play in practice, his tenaciousness, helped to mold the team we see on the court. Juenemann and the others like him are an important part of this team. They make the same effort as the starters but get very little public praise. I stand with hat off to Jordan Juenemann and the rest of the walkons. Thanks to you guys for all you do.

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Armen Kurdian 2 years, 6 months ago

Agree, the 'scrubs' time on the court during practice is just about as valuable as our starters time on the court during the game. They've made our stars better players, so they are absolutely big contributors. Hopefully we'll have a couple of routs to start off in the tourney to give those guys some playing time in the 1st/2nd rounds.

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brooksmd 2 years, 6 months ago

I hate the word "scrubs" when referring to KU backup players.

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Ron Franklin 2 years, 6 months ago

Sorry, but no. First of all Frank works for the enemy that turned their back on the rest of the conference, so he never deserved a any accolades from the league he is abandoning.

Secondly, you think Frank coaches a winning system? Look at his life-time coaching percentage to know that's not the case. The guy made it to the NCAA tournament 1 time while at Miami.

Third, he had a team that returned over 90% of it's scoring, and all of the starters from last year. Mike Anderson had recruited some studs, and then misused them for three years. Did you know Mike Anderson didn't run an offense? Frank Haith stepped in, implemented a few plays, and the kids took off. All they needed was just a little bit of structure and they were primed to excel. I would barely credit Haith with any of this.

Finally, the guy is under a probe for dealing with a schmuck and paying players.

Still think he got robbed?

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actorman 2 years, 6 months ago

I agree that as great a job as he did, he didn't deserve coach of the year. However, 90% of your argument has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about.

Coach of the year should be based on how a coach did with this year's team, period, not whether his team is abandoning the conference, how he did at Miami (for crying out loud), or whether he's being investigated. On the basis of this year's coaching job alone, I can see an argument for Haith getting COY. I still feel like Self and Hoiberg deserved it more, but I don't begrudge those who disagree.

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Ron Franklin 2 years, 6 months ago

You're gonna tell me you don't think the coaches jobbed Haith because Mizzou is heading to the SEC? Give me a break.

And every single one of my points is relevant, thank you very little.

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actorman 2 years, 6 months ago

BlownJay, clearly you need to work on your reading comprehension. Can you point to one place where I said the coaches didn't base their Haith vote on whether Mizzou was going to the SEC??? You said that Haith didn't DESERVE COY because Mizzou was going to the SEC, and I said that that reason was irrelevant. Just because it's irrelevant as to whether he deserves it or not doesn't mean that people wouldn't let their biases determine their voting. Years ago, Albert Belle lost out to a far inferior player (I forget who, at the moment) for AL MVP simply because Belle had been such a jerk to the media. Did the media vote against him because he had been a jerk? Absolutely. Was his being a jerk relevant to whether he should have been the MVP? Absolutely not.

You also say that every single one of your points is relevant. I would bet you that 100% of sane, rational people would say that Haith's record at Miami is completely irrelevant as to whether he deserves COY at Missouri. In fact, your comment about his record at Miami is so bizarre that it's beyond irrelevant, it's downright ignorant.

Your other irrelevant comment is that Haith is under a probe for paying his players. First of all, a probe doesn't mean he's been found guilty. And second, a probe of corruption has absolutely nothing to do with his coaching ability.

Other than stubbornness (or, there's that word again, ignorance), I don't know how you can possibly argue that any of these points have the slightest relevance as to whether Haith deserves COY. Have they affected people's voting? Probably. Does that make it right (or mean that he didn't deserve COY for those reasons)? Absolutely not.

And again, I emphasize that despite all of your ridiculous points, I still don't think that Haith deserved COY. I just think that the reasons should legitimately have to do with how he has coached this year's Mizzou team, not how he placed in a 1994 bocce ball tournament.

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jaybate 2 years, 6 months ago

Tom,

Maybe this story was a set-up for some stats by Jesse?

I think the right stats will show how he did it.

Screw COY.

Self should win magician of the year, or bailing wire artist of the year!!!!

Bottom line though: his team did it.

They became the defenders he said they could be.

TT became leader and a trey shooter, which made him unstoppable off the bounce.

Thomas played through the triple teams, learned to shoot and pass and shoot FT.

Jeff became a swatting savant and a crack FT shooter, while being just good enough otherwise to stay on the floor.

Travis became a great defender and protector.

EJ defended exceptionally and protected well and got biled out by TT's trey.

Conner played just well enough in key games and very well in a few.

KY grew into a 15 mpg guy.

Justin guarded the post for short stretches.

Everyone played through injuries that would have stopped lesser players.

Self reached maturity as coach able to see his players strengths and pick and choose which failings to fix, rather than trying to fix everything.

It all came together for awhile for this team with two of the best players in USA, and a starting 5 that should have been voted all league.

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Andy Tweedy 2 years, 6 months ago

Jaybate, I have a question for you. You clearly are a very passionate fan, and study the games/roster, etc very closely. I thought you were a little hard on Weiss when he let some of Gill's players go a few months ago. I have been trying to understand Self's recruiting philosophy when it comes to what I think is generally referred to as overrecruiting scholarships, and this year has me completely lost. It sure appears we are in the running for 3 more players, and I'm guessing that at least one of them will end up here. We have 5 scholarship players coming in, and we only lost Taylor, Teahan and Robinson. I realize Wesley's scholarship is probably not guaranteed, but that still leaves us one over already, and now he's looking at the likes of Sampson, Parker and Muhammed. How is Self planning to make this work if even one of them commits...or for that matter if none of them commit? Do you believe he recruits kids like Lindsey and tells them it's only a one year guarantee? What is he doing here?

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Tony Bandle 2 years, 6 months ago

Don't forget...Jordan got a scholarship this year, so that makes four.

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Andy Tweedy 2 years, 6 months ago

I couldn't have forgotten that, as I honestly didn't know that was the case. So that being the case, it would make things clearer and must mean Self might expect someone else (Withey?) to make the jump. Thanks for clearing it up some for me!

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Kye Clark 2 years, 6 months ago

If no one else commits, then we'll be at our limit, not over. This is assuming Wesley goes back to walk-on status. I've broken this down before, but have no problem running the numbers again:

Returning scholarship players (6): 1. EJ 2. Travis 3. Whitey 4. KY 5. Tharpe 6. Lindsay

Becoming Eligible (2): 7. Traylor 8. BMac

Incoming recruits (5): 9. Ellis 10. Peters 11. Lucas 12. White 13. Adams

So there's the allotted 13 scholarships. I do agree that Self is "over-recruiting", but I wonder how much of that is due to last year Self feeling like he got caught flat-footed and off-guard by Markieff and Selby leaving, and thus wanting to ensure nothing like that could happen again.

I also agree with your other speculation, that he may pull Lindsay's scholarship. I'm not really a big fan of that practice in general. Someone mentioned him redshirting, but I still think even if redshirting he would count against the 13 (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Anyway, I know I'm not Jaybate, but thought I should clarify that we wouldn't be one over if no one else signs and Wesley returns to walk-on status.

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Alohahawk 2 years, 6 months ago

Concise, accurate and easy to understand list.

We all know that Keith Langford will cover Wesley's expenses and scholarship. Thus, freeing up the one needed to allow the above list of players.

The big question is, where would the necessary scholarship(s) come from if any more recruits select KU? There are two possibilites. That is, unless any unsigned recruit(s) decide to go elsewhere or do not qualify.

  1. Lindsey hasn't played enough game minutes to accurately judge his abilities. But Coach Self hasn't trusted him enough to insert him unless the game is well in hand. Even if he can shoot lights out 3's, he's going to have to demonstrate good defense or he's won't see any more game minutes than those of a walk-on. (Ex. Although not great at defense, Teahan has shown enough that Self trusts him during crucial moments of a game. But it took him 3 walk-on years + a red shirt year to get there.) So, Lindsey's on a razor's edge. If another recruit selects KU, IMHO, Lindsey loses his scholarship. Just because he looks a lot like Stephen Curry, doesn't mean Lindsey can perform the same miracle shots.

  2. KU needs a good backup point guard next year. Tharpe has shown he has abilities, but he's not been consistent. He's going to have to protect the ball better and pick it up on the defensive end. Or he could be sitting on the bench, which Self can't afford with only Johnson as a true guard at the point. I like Tharpe's attitude and he seems to love being a Jayhawk. I hope he's around next season. Come on Naadir, KU needs you to step it up about 2 notches.

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Andy Tweedy 2 years, 6 months ago

That's a good point about the point! But the guys he seems to be still recruiting are all forwards. Johnson can obviously handle the ball, but Self has always shown he loves to have a couple guys on the court at all times who can bring it up.

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Andy Tweedy 2 years, 6 months ago

That was the best way to list it out, Jaybate or not. In all honesty, I only pinged Jaybate because he's on here a lot, and figured he'd see it. I had no idea Jordan got a scholarship, and hadn't thought to list it out as you did. Simple but brillian!

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jaybate 2 years, 6 months ago

What Ict said.

Plus you have to be prepared to replace injured players, and players that get in scrapes with the law,and players that simply want to leave because they don't see light at the end of the trouble.

Would he send players packing to get one, two, or all three of the players at the game?

Yep.

Its ugly but true, though mercifully pretty rare.

The players get one year contracts, not four year contracts. They know it, when they come. What Self seems to do for such players, if he thinks they could play elsewhere, is he finds them a spot with another coach in the Okie Baller Mafia.

Self is losing some serious impact in TT and TRob, and Withey could go, and there is even an outside chance the EJ could jump.

And when you look at what he's got coming back, plus what he's got coming in, I don't see two plug and play players likely to be able to replace these guys.

So: he has to keep trying to replace them.

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Steve Brown 2 years, 6 months ago

upgrade whenever possible.

especially with new leader and the troops don't buy in.

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John Randall 2 years, 6 months ago

The starting five (or six) ARE all-league, and no voting was involved.

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bbeckum 2 years, 6 months ago

So which POY awards are most prestigious? I know the Wooden Award is considered important. Do the coaches pick a nat'l POY?

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bbeckum 2 years, 6 months ago

Also, I am really impressed with the way KU finished the season. After clinching a share of the title, they could've put it on cruise control. Instead, they beat a scrappy OSU team on the road, and a dangerous UT team with nothing on the line (other than pride/seeding:) Even though neither game was pretty, the Hawks took care of business. I think that bodes well for tourney play, especially in early games against teams they "should" beat.

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actorman 2 years, 6 months ago

Well said, bbeckum. I was especially impressed with the OSU game, given that it came just two days after such an incredible, emotional victory over the tiggers.

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Joseph Kuebel 2 years, 6 months ago

A UT team has a nothing???? Uhh?? U mean nothing but an NCAA birth on the line?

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BillSelf4Prez 2 years, 6 months ago

Looks like Michigan State is out of the running for a no. 1 seed. So that leaves us and North Carolina now. If we win our tournament and they win theirs we should still be ahead of them. But knowing how much ESPN and everyone loves the tarheels they will select them over us for the St. Louis region and will ship us out West. And watch Misery get the no. 2 seed in St. Louis. Oh ya, and why is ESPN so obsessed with The Unibrow? T-Rob averages 5 more ppg and 5 more rpg.

Ha and how about WIllie Cauley? LOSING to my 12-8 Olathe East Hawks in the 6a state tournament after going undefeated in the regular season. Haha. And Clay Cluster at Blue Valley NorthWest is probably one of the best up and coming players in the state. Still isn't on KU's radar, but i know he is on KSU's and he has them listed so HCBS needs to go watch this kid play! Lastly, i don't expect OE to advance past Perry Ellis and Wichita Heights. Ha

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Kye Clark 2 years, 6 months ago

Two things:

First of all, agreed on the #1 seeds and definitely could see us getting the shaft and getting shipped out west. Posted on this yesterday. It's one of the reasons why I suggested resting some guys and maybe taking the "unintentional intentional" loss in the Big XII tourney.

Secondly, Cauley's Olathe Northwest team wasn't undefeated. I watched Custer's team beat them at the Valley Center January Jam tournament. Maybe they were undefeated in league play I guess. Agree that Custer is a pretty good player. Only a sophomore. But there's lots of good players all over the country. Some other poster keeps commenting on some junior point guard named Taylor (out of Oklahoma I believe). I'm sure Self knows about these kids, and has his reasons for pursuing some and not others.

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BillSelf4Prez 2 years, 6 months ago

Ya, sorry it was league play. And my cousins go to Northwest and i have friends that go there, and not very many people like Clayton. I don't really know why, if it's because he thinks he is the best ever or what. But last time i saw he had KSU listed and some other teams but not KU.

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actorman 2 years, 6 months ago

Yes and no. It's hard to enjoy a game when you hate both teams. It would be much more fun if they could both get upset early so we wouldn't have to worry about either team going far (especially Misuse, which needs to keep its perfect record intact of having never made the Final Four).

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2 years, 6 months ago

Agreed. The sad thing with an MU vs. UK match-up is someone would win.

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Mike Kendall 2 years, 6 months ago

As much as I enjoy the Madness, it is the match ups that make this Tournament so interesting. Someone huge will get upset---just hope it isn't us. Kentucky, Missouri----getting upset----that would be priceless.

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REHawk 2 years, 6 months ago

I've nothing against Frank Haith and his group of players. They are winners, kids who have steadily improved and become formidable opponents on the conference and national stage. The Tigers performed well a season ago, and advanced significantly in the NCAA Tournament. Even with the loss of Bowers, newcomer Haith not only held his team together but built unity and forward progress with the players Mike Anderson recruited and left behind. That is a very praiseworthy coaching job for a newcomer from a distant league. However, Fred Hoiberg, in his second season at the helm, brought the Cyclones from anonymity as a 3-win league team to a position of 3rd place in the conference, knocking off #1 Big 12 Champion Kansas enroute. And all of us know what Bill Self has done. At the very best, Frank Haith deserves no better than a possible tie for 3-way league co-coach of the year. Given that Missouri politicians, pigskin dreamers and discontents, and governor-picked Board of Curators chose to jump ship and rattle what was left of the solidity of our league, folks who are responsible for the voting aren't going to gift the fledgling Tiger mentor with any special blessings. It's a bye-bye and good riddance situation for Missouri athletics. Too bad their basketball players got caught up in the enmity; but voters did not fail to recognize the strength of their players. Self and Hoiberg have mined rocks and polislhed them into dazzling gemstones. Their recruits, their upward progress, their coaching; no silver platters handed to them by a former mentor.

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Orangedog87 2 years, 6 months ago

I think it is great that ISUBB is doing well. It is good for the Big12 and provide a lot of exciting games for KUBB going forward. Hoiberg is doing a great job especially when you look at the BB coaches at Texas and Baylor....

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actorman 2 years, 6 months ago

Yeah, I've generally pretty much found reasons to hate (or at least dislike) every Big XII team except ISU, so it's nice to see them doing well.

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Ludwig Supraphonic 2 years, 6 months ago

I was listening to ESPN radio late last night with the topic being three teams (UK, Syracuse, UNC) being locks for #1 seeds. Since MSU lost yesterday, they were no longer seen as a lock, and the #1 bid could come down to the B10 tourney, Dook, or maybe Mizzery/KU. Love the B12 respect. UNC touted as, finally playing up to their pre-season potential. I wonder where KU would be seeded if we had a 33 point road loss in conference. I guess proving in on the court against a full conference slate is undervalued.

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jhawkrulz 2 years, 6 months ago

The conference tournaments historically have meant nothing to the seeding.

The committee is locked in their room and don't watch much of the tournaments. The #1 seeds are set, the only thing that could slightly change is if KU lost in the first round, even as such, I believe they are set.

MSU has lost its last two.

I think Syracuse and Kentucky are no-brainers. I think KU and UNC are the logical next two.
I've heard MU, MSU, and Duke. I think MU didn't win their conference and they have a horrible RPI for a top team (like 14th?). MSU and Duke, would be the argument. Since Duke just lost and had 3 conference home losses, I think they will be out. MSU, had their chance, but with the loss to OSU on Sunday it sealed their fate. The Big Ten will get 3 #2 seeds (Michigan, MSU, and OSU), with Duke getting the final #2. The Big East will fill up the #3, and I've been saying it for awhile, MU will get a #4 or worse seed. As much as people complain about the RPI, that is what is used, and that puts MU into a #4 seed. Don't think that the OU Rep (who is the Big XII representative) to do any favors for MU, they will see a #4 seed and either end up in the South with their future group, or end up out west because they hate them that much. KU will most likely end up in the West because they will want to give UNC a closer to home situation.

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Kye Clark 2 years, 6 months ago

You have been saying this for awhile. Come selection Sunday if MU is a #2 seed (as I expect they will be, barring an opening loss in the conference tourney), I want to see you here explaining what happened with this OU rep you keep talking about. If they fall to the #4 seed line I will give you your due. Personally, I'd love it if you're right, but I can't fathom it.

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JayHawkFanToo 2 years, 6 months ago

Unfortunately, the NCAA uses the RPI for seeding, and on the last update, KU was ranked 6. The new rankings come out today; hopefully KU moves up. It is hard to understand why the NCAA still uses the RPI, a system that is obviously obsolete, when there are many other systems that are much better at evaluating true team strength.

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Billy Derringer 2 years, 6 months ago

Theres always a suprise or two come selection day.The committee does there home work an dosent get caught up with talk. ku has played a juggernut of a secdule they will be rewarded i got there resume at 3rd overall.They grew from Davidson it was a needed lose, seems as self has a game every year will he let his players do it thier way an they get bit.Grate teaching tool because really season loses arent that big of a deal only when they mount it becomes a issue.Thank you Drew Jennings for going an getting this coach best move in the last 20 years per as cbb coaching hires great vision great get.

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Scott Smetana 2 years, 6 months ago

Mizzou = Dook.
Live and die by the 3.

UNC = UK Loads of talent, hands down favorites

Syracuse = Ohio St Underwhelming

Kansas = Michigan St. Overachieving, great coaches, All-American leader

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Tony Bandle 2 years, 6 months ago

It's about the $$$$$$$. Don't be surprised if Kansas, Missouri and St.Louis Univ. all end up in the Midwest Regional.

Since SLU played no games in the Dome, they will be allowed to come to the Midwest. Just those three teams could almost fill the place...if they get there.

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John Randall 2 years, 6 months ago

As long as MU hangs onto a 2-seed, they have to be in a different Region than KU. Other than that, no two teams from the same conference can be placed where they might meet before the Regional Final (Elite Eight round). To meet this requirement, the committee can swap two team's positions on the S-curve – usually the lower rated one is moved up or down one spot, and end up #7 (or #11 or whatever) in one region instead of another where their actual S-ranking would have placed them.

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John Randall 2 years, 6 months ago

As long as MU hangs onto a 2-seed, they have to be in a different Region than KU. Other than that, no two teams from the same conference can be placed where they might meet before the Regional Final (Elite Eight round). To meet this requirement, the committee can swap two team's positions on the S-curve – usually the lower rated one is moved up or down one spot, and end up #7 (or #11 or whatever) in one region instead of another where their actual S-ranking would have placed them.

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Jim Pendleton 2 years, 6 months ago

Oakville, I thought a KU-MU hook-up in the St Louis Regional was possible too, until I heard a few weeks ago that there is an NCAA rule regarding teams from the same conference being in the same regional, if they are both a one and a two seed. Don't confuse this with the old rule that teams from the same conference can't meet up until a regional final. I heard this on one of the tournament discussion shows, so pretty sure this info is accurate.

The only way KU and MU could play in the same regional would be if one of the two teams is a three seed or worse. I don't really see that happening unless one or both lose their first game this week in KC.

SLU and/or Wichita State could be interesting as well. I could see one or both of these teams being placed in this regional also. That could make for a wild weekend in St Louis if two or more of these teams make it that far. Wouldn't rule out seeing Mich St or Ohio St there either.

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Lance Hobson 2 years, 6 months ago

This team is special but whether our record shows we deserve it or not, I think we all know this isn't a #1 seed team. It's very unlikely this group will make it to the Final 4, and a #1 seed will be the nail in the coffin. I am really hoping for a 2 seed, the pressure of a #1 will be too much for this team to handle. I don't want KU to be known as the perennial #1 seed you can count on not making it to the Final 4, and if we get one this year that's the label you can bank on.

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Scott Smetana 2 years, 6 months ago

I'm usually very against your negative posts. This time, however, I couldn't agree more. I hope we lose to Baylor/KSU. Weird, but I think it will do us better in the tourney.

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ParisHawk 2 years, 6 months ago

Coming real late to this thread, but just a reminder that last year every other #1 seed got eliminated before we did. Why are we the only "perennial #1 seed you can count on not making it to the Final 4"???

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AZHawk72 2 years, 6 months ago

As far as seedings go, at this point it looks like the 1s are Kentucky, Syracuse, North Carolina, and us--with the 2s being Missouri, Duke, Ohio-State and Marquette or Michigan State. The oddity is that all of the above, except Kentucky, could play another of the above before the weekend concludes. Never before has there been a better opportunity to judge the impact of the conference tourneys on seedings. It will also be interesting to see what lengths the committee will go to separate the big dogs in the 12, the 10, and the East.

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