Originally published June 15, 2012 at 11:46p.m., updated June 16, 2012 at 04:12p.m.

Milton Doyle to play basketball at Kansas University

Chicago combo guard to attend summer school classes Monday


Milton Doyle, a 6-foot-4, 185-pound combo guard out of Chicago’s Marshall High, will be attending Kansas University on basketball scholarship this season.

Doyle — he averaged 19 points, seven rebounds, five assists and five steals a game his senior season — will arrive in Lawrence on Sunday and begin summer school classes on Monday, sources told the Journal-World.

At KU, he’ll be a roommate of fellow freshman newcomer Tyler Self.

Doyle, who visited KU on May 14-15, graduated high school earlier this week. He had to wait on his final grades to be matched with his ACT score to see if he’d qualify for a scholarship at KU. Though the NCAA Clearinghouse typically does not officially clear any players for eligibility until late summer, it is believed Doyle will be fully qualified to play college basketball as a freshman. He and family members celebrated the good news on Friday night at a going-away party for Milton in Chicago, organized by his mom, Lisa.

Lisa explained the specifics of Doyle's eligibility situation to the Chicago Tribune on Saturday. Doyle recently signed a financial aid agreement with KU, the Trib reported, but, like all freshmen, needs to be cleared by the NCAA Clearinghouse to be on scholarship.

In Doyle's case which goes before the Clearinghouse, his mom said he has the grades and test scores to be eligible next season, but he’s awaiting approval of two courses he took online because of complications following his transfer from Chicago Tilden to Marshall after his sophomore year.

“I thought we had taken care of this at the end of his junior year," Lisa told the Tribune. "We went to Tilden to get all of this settled. But most of the staff at Tilden was either fired or transferred so the papers never went to Marshall.”

Doyle, who last month scored 20 points in the Chicago Public League all-star game, is unranked nationally by He missed his entire junior season after transferring from Tilden to Marshall because of a broken wrist. He did not play AAU ball in July last year, instead concentrating on his academic work.

Doyle chose KU over Marquette, a school he would have visited had things not worked out in terms of receiving a scholarship offer at KU.

Anrio Adams, a 6-3 guard from Seattle’s Rainier Beach High, also graduated this week and is planning on arriving at KU on July 1 (if he has qualified academically), he reports on his Facebook page.

“I call him the quiet assassin,” Marshall High coach Henry Cotton told the Chicago Tribune. “He just goes about his job relentlessly. If he had waited (until second semester instead of committing to FIU) he could have gone anywhere he wanted to, but he was loyal to the people who showed him interest when no one else did. That’s the way he is.”

Cotton told the Chicago Sun Times that Doyle, who is known for his slashing ability is most effective when the game is on the line.

“The one thing I learned coaching him this year was that when he wants to score, when he really wants to score, he’s going to score,” said Cotton, whose team won 3A regional and sectional titles. “He will find a way. He will get to the rim. He will knock down mid-range shots, pull up, go get a teammate’s miss and put back an offensive rebound. He’s an exciting talent, a natural player who does things you can’t teach. What I’m looking forward to seeing is what he becomes when a college program develops his body.”

He’s impressed the Chicago media.

“Doyle is the ultimate sleeper, an underrated talent who fits the cliché ‘his best basketball is ahead of him’ perfectly. It’s true,” wrote Joe Henricksen of the Chicago Sun Times. “Doyle is just scratching the surface. He’s long, wiry, active, extremely athletic and his skill level has improved the more he plays.

“Doyle remained a rather unknown. Florida International snuck in and nabbed a commitment from Doyle last fall before the kid’s talent blew the top off and he became a hot commodity. Thomas, however, was fired following the season and Doyle was back on the open market. ... You just don’t typically find a talent this late in the recruiting game like Doyle, who has tremendous upside and untapped potential,” Henricksen added.

Noted “A stellar athlete who was among top five players in Chicago Public League based on performance this past season.  Excels at slashing and has a tremendous mid-range game.”

Academic honors: KU’s basketball team was one of nine men’s NCAA Tournament qualifiers and more than 950 teams overall handed public recognition awards by the NCAA based on their Academic Progress Rates (APRs). Their scores ranked among the top 10% in their respective sports, USA Today reports. Individual team scores weren’t released.

Early Father’s Day: Former KU All-American Wayne Simien and wife Katie are celebrating Thursday’s birth of son, Shepherd. They also have daughters Selah and Rael and a son, Simon.

“My Father's Day gift came early with the arrival of our 4th child, Shepherd Allen Simien!” Simien wrote on Twitter on Thursday. “Lots of folks asking why we named our son Shepherd. My heart has always been moved with Jesus’ identity as the Good Shepherd, John 10:11,” Simien explained.


Cmill1221 7 years ago

Wow. Missed an entire season from a wrist injury. That would help explain the low ranking. He also sounds a little undersized at the moment but put some weight on and this guy could be a steal. This kind of makes me think about Langford and how he originally committed to Ole Miss. You just can't tell sometimes.

Millsey20 7 years ago

Langford is the only one you think of? The list is growing. Xavier... Tyshawn..... I thought the twins committed to Memphis before Calisleazy left. I don't remember if he had committed, but i thought i remembered Selby was headed to Tennessee at one point. Maybe someone can look that one up for me. I'm too lazy.

Specifically on Mr. Doyle... I'm not one to pay any attention to high school stats whatsoever... but.... to average 5 steals a game? Is that pretty common, playing in Chicago? I'd love to hear someone input on that.. is there anything to take from it.. or is it pretty ho-hum for an average D1 guard when he's at the high-school level?

If it is a sign that he's got good mario-like instincts to get in passing lanes and being 6-4.. he could be pretty disruptive on the defensive end... a maybe he'll be a bigger factor than some think. I'm anxious to see.

Cmill1221 7 years ago

I thought of Langford b/c he wasn't a 5 star guy and he turned out to be a beast! And on top of that a 4 year guy.

Michael Pannacciulli 7 years ago

I am excited. If this kid wants to be coached and buys into the system the sky is the limit. Think frosh Tyshawn and then think senior Tyshawn.

Welcome to KU. Life is about to get unreal for you. Enjoy the ride, take the good advice from your coaches, and make your mark on the program.

april28 7 years ago

Congratulations and welcome to Lawrence Mr. Doyle! Foregoing the AAU circuit and focusing on academics was a wise, wise move. Look around and take it all are now part of one of the top-five college basketball programs in the country.

nuleafjhawk 7 years ago

(It's OK april, you can say it - - he is now part of THE top college basketball program in the country.)

hawk316 7 years ago

Milton, I'm so glad it worked out. I was pulling for you to be a Jayhawk. A warm welcome to Lawrence.

april28 7 years ago

Really? I'm not sure I understand your obsession with this.

Here's some new facts for you to consider: Until an L.O.I. or some other formal paperwork is signed the coach and university cannot comment. This new policy, approximately 100-years-old, means that KU can't comment.

Though most of us would wet ourselves if Bill Self walked into a room that we happened to populate, Gary Bedore is actually paid a salary to develop relationships with coaches, administrators and others in the sporting world. Based on these relationships, he sometimes knows more about KU athletics than people who write messages on discussion boards.

Another new term: "off the record" has been developed to describe a situation where someone reveals or hints at information that cannot publicly be attributed.

Finally, most reporters, columnists, editors and news gathering organizations have fairly strict validation criteria before allowing stories to be published. This is called "confirming a story".

Some other news that may interest you: astronauts really did land on the moon, there is no such thing as Bigfoot and Paul McCartney is not dead.

ahpersecoachingexperience 7 years ago

Dang it! I was really wishing he'd play for us at the University of Kansas.

nuleafjhawk 7 years ago

If you contribute some of that money to me, I'll will have the place renamed kugrampy university. (Or would that be the University of kugrampy??)

bg_duck1 7 years ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Millsey20 7 years ago

I agree entirely with you on the griping about Kansas U vs Univ of Kansas... I couldn't care less. If it matters that much... then everyone should throw aways everything that says "KU" on it... because it's backwards. We should be UK and Kentucky should be KU. Big deal!

Where you lost me is how much money you make and what you've contributed. So what? I bet I cap whoop your old, rich butt. But there would be no more or less of a point to that than your income.

Gregor Southard 7 years ago

Hey grampy! Money makes you more important than the rest of us! It's a good day to be a Kansas University Jayhawk!

LAJayhawk 7 years ago

Every time this topic comes up, the following must be posted:

KUDUDE 7 years ago


ahpersecoachingexperience 7 years ago

Talk about not qualifying academically!!!

Corey Shideler 7 years ago

Kudude Is a good guy with LOTS of info to share. I know this from a site with WAY better posters than this one. You guys should treat other fans with more respect.

RJ King 7 years ago

Dude + 12:23 a.m. = Academic Regress Rate

Sam Constance 7 years ago

That's just, like, your opinion, man...

Dr. Robert s. Mosser 7 years ago

Would someone explain to me how Connectcut is out of next years's NCAA but Kentucky brings in a NBA development team who doesn't go to class the second semester, then mostly goes to the NBA yet seems to incur no penalties related to academic progress?

hawksince51 7 years ago

Brainy walk-ons at the end of the bench keep the average up.

Brian Skelly 7 years ago

Because if the kids withdraw from class, instead of simply 'dropping' out the GPA isnt affected. Not saying its right or not, but thats why its that way. Most football players who are legit pros do the same thing after their bowl games by withdrawing from classes. This part isnt really news.

Alex Peekeaton 7 years ago

What makes you think the Kentucky players didn't go to class??? You might want to try and do a little research before you insinuate something...

rockchalk_dpu 7 years ago

Since I've already replied to your other comment, I'd like to ask you how you think a team 3.12 GPA actually makes anyone on this board impressed. This is a number that although quite impressive when looked at in the abstract, really loses its luster once you break it down and really evaluate it further.

With 6 freshman on the team, taking first year classes WITH TUTORS, there is no excuse not to get excellent grades. Add in the fact that you have 6 sophomores, 1 junior and 2 seniors, and it is easy to see how a team GPA statistic might be inflated given the lack of players matriculating through college and into harder coursework.

And not to further knock your players, but judging by the playing time and game statistics, it only looks like you played 7 guys (including Vargas) with any consistency. The rest, for lack of a better term look like GPA boosters rather than team members. In the end, while you have a lot to be proud of this year, touting this high team GPA really shouldn't be one of them.

Alex Peekeaton 7 years ago

I don't think I was touting the 3.12 team GPA, but rather making the case that Kentucky's players DO go to class despite what other posters like "docnchg" may state. If the OADs blew off class after winning the NC, then how does Davis, Gilchrist, and Teague have a combined GPA well above the 3.12 team average??? In regards to the 2012 roster, we played 8 guys with Vargas, Wiltjer, and Miller coming off the bench. We lost two players who were being counted on in providing depth this year right before the season started - Stacy Poole (#30 player in 2010 class) transferred back in November and Jon Hood (# 40 player) tore his ACL right before school started. Add in transfer PG Harrow who had to sit out this past year, UK would have 11 players on this squad who were top 50 players with a majority of them in the top 20. So I don't think GPA boosters rather than team members is accurate either.

Alex Peekeaton 7 years ago

The NCAA makes the rules and the rule right now is 1 year of college...the OADs are playing by the rules. Don't blame the University for the rule - it's the NCAA. The goal in going to college is to get a good job - if you are ready for your full time job (NBA) after your 1st year of college, then go get the money because they will make more in their first year or two than we would in a lifetime!

Funny thing is Bill Self does recruit most of the OADs...they just dont come to Kansas! Just keep on signing the nonranked players and we will keep beating you with talent!

rockchalk_dpu 7 years ago

You are so wrong, so let me take the time to correct you. The NCAA did not and never had any input into the current rule with respect to OAD players, rather it was the NBA in the collective bargaining agreement that required for a player to be eligible for the draft, they must turn 19 during the year of the draft (20xx-19). This basically required that the athlete had played some form of college (or Euro ball ala Brandon Jennings), or sat out to turn 19 before being drafted. It is similar to the NFL rule that to be eligible, you must either be a junior or your class juniors (RS sophomores) to enter the draft. The reasoning was that there were too many high draft picks that went bust after being selected out of high school, and the players and NBA wanted to protect the NBA and their product by drafting known commodities that had been in a higher level of competition than their high school and AAU teams. By making this rule, they simply shifted the burden to colleges, and likely the rule will go to a 2 year requirement or perhaps mirror the rule in professional baseball in the next collective bargaining agreement (in 10 years).

Alex Peekeaton 7 years ago

In regards to your "one rule change from turning back to invisible status in college basketball" comment, the only rule change I see the NBA ever making is extending the time requirement and that will help Kentucky. Can you imagine next year's Kentucky team with Davis, Gilchrist, and Teague back for another run??? Another point you don't realize is the the players who left early, Wall/Bledsoe/Rondo, are working to get their degrees as all three enrolled back into UK to take classes during the NBA lockout. Brandon Knight was academically a Sophomore at UK because of his high academic achievements in high school - he had Ivy schools (Yale & Princeton) looking at him based on just his grades. He too is getting his degree. So to make my point, these kids aren't forgetting their education as you state.

In regards to players in NBA finals, the 3 players for KU and the one (Mohammad) for UK are role players only. Rondo outplayed Chalmers so bad in the Conference finals and if it wasn't for Pierce stinking it up, Boston would be playing in the finals. UK's OADs were all high draft picks going to the worst teams...Agree on the chatting it up - Cheers!!!

Alohahawk 7 years ago

Aloha and a hearty welcome to Mr. Doyle. Always nice to sign on recruits who have so proudly expressed their desire to become Jayhawks. Sounds like KU has another recruit who, like Peters, has been under-ranked because of non-exposure on the AAU circuit. If we can trust what Doyle's coach and the news media says as being true, I think KU is extremely lucky to add a recruit so late which could fill in that questionable spot (backup PG) on this coming season's roster.

Note: This news should also verify that Chi_town24 is who he says he is. (Read his posts under the article about Self liking the new NCAA rules change.)

Alohahawk 7 years ago

Oops. Forgot to add my congratulations to Wayne and his wife on the newest member of their family. The Jayhawk Nation just grew by one. (Or should I say two, if you add Milton Doyle's name.) :>)

Gary Wirsig 7 years ago

About to add same about Chi_town24. Confidently makes the correct call the day before it happens!

bad_dog 7 years ago

Don't tell KEITHMILES05. He proclaimed just yesterday that Doyle would never play at KU. That's what lead to Chi_town24's post refuting the claim.

jaybate 7 years ago

keithmiles has 05 piles.

03 are inflamed.

02 are unchanged.

Keith will heal in awhile. :-)

NebraskaJayhawk 7 years ago

There are so many people concerned about Tharpe.....why? He was a freshman and played like one the majority of the time. He did not receive very much playing time throughout the season, but you could tell he was much more mature when he came in for some spot play in the tourney. I think he is going to be pretty special by mid-way through this upcoming season. Everyone on the team lauded his ability to distribute the ball, and his shot is'll see.

Big time year for Mr. Tharpe. I do understand your concern though. Once Johnson leaves next year, that basically leaves us with one point guard.

I just can't wait until Frankcamp arrives...he is going to be so amazing behind the arc. Maybe he'll develop into a Jimmer and bring the ball up the floor too.

april28 7 years ago

He was also playing behind a guy who's going to end up being drafted in the first round. No a lot of minutes to be had when you are playing behind a senior point guard who is headed to the NBA.

NebraskaJayhawk 7 years ago

Very true...good point. Yeah, I think he'll be fine.

jaybate 7 years ago

Naadir can distribute.

Naadir can't guard.

If Naadir learns to guard,

Naadir can contribute.

Naadir has short legs

That don't turn and burn.

If he can strengthen his legs,

The he can burn as he turns.

Naadir is quite short

Just ask Sherron

If he can get strong

Self won't say so long.

Brendan Connolly 7 years ago

Frankamp is going to be a stub PG. He played it for the US team and upon recently hearing it wasn't his strengths, went to 2 all star camps and by all accounts made everyone around him better and controlled the floor.

Vernon Riggs 7 years ago

I think that with Naadir, Conner, Rio and Milt can handle the point and along with White, Greene and BenMac rounding out the #2 and #3 spots in 2013.

With the two remaining scholarships in 2013, I would think one would have to be a #5 - Walker or Shepherd. The final spot could go to the best available: Randle?, Lawrence? Mickey? Selden? Lee?

DDDHawk 7 years ago

Milton- You sound like a great guy. Welcome to the Jayhawk Family!

championhawks 7 years ago

Does anyone know anything about the top players in the Chicago Public League? If Milton was a top 5 player this past year, I would be interested to see who the other top players were and where they landed in the recruiting world.

Brian Skelly 7 years ago

Jabari Parker is a stud already. Big, strong, and can shoot it. Not sure where he 'ranks' but im sure he's one of the top players in the country coming out next year (or the year after)... I think he just finished in Sophomore year.

Im sure they'll be no hype at all around that guy :)

DanR 7 years ago

ALL CPL Team 2012

First Team:

Milton Doyle, G 6-4 Sr. -- Kansas*, FIU

Devin Foster, G 6-3 Sr. -- unranked, offers from mid majors

Jabari Parker, F 6-9 Jr. -- #1 player 2013, recrruited by everyone

Rashaun Stimage, F 6-7 Jr. -- St. Johns, Depaul

Steve Taylor, C/F 6-8 Sr. -- Marquette*, Iowa, Mizzou, Ohio, SIU, Xavier

Second Team

Cliff Alexander, C, 6-9 So., -- ranked #8 in 2014, Illinois...

Willie Conner, G, 6-4, Sr. -- Florida A&M*, Rhode Island, UT-Martin, Utah

Billy Garrett, G, 6-4 Jr. -- DePaul*, Florida State, UNLV

Kendrick Nunn, G, 6-2, Jr. -- Illinois, Mizzou, Nebraska, Texas A&M

Jahlil Okafor, C, 6-11, So. -- ranked #3 in 2014, recruited by everyone


Jayhawk1958 7 years ago

Wonder how many of these new freshmen will transfer do to lack of playing time...

gchawk 7 years ago

Wow, a plethora of good news in this article. Great to officially have you as a Jayhawk, Milton, and congrats on the arrival of a future Jayhawk, Wayne! I do hope everything works out for Anrio, he will be a great addition to an awesome team. As far as the academic honor, that is very special, it just adds more icing to a stellar season.

Martin Rosenblum 7 years ago

Simon Simeon? Poor kid better get a nickname!

Jack Wilson 7 years ago

konkeyDong: You know, it's actually imploding .. kind of collapsing inward in a violent fashion from the weight of the giddiness we see above from Jaydogger, Alohahawk, and cmill1221. But I have prepared for this day.

I actually have no problem with the scholarship going to Milton at this point. We had an open spot and Self has shown no hesitation in showing an unworthy player the door after one year if needed (see Lindsay). So it is really no risk .. either we have a scholarship open, or we take this guy as insurance. If the right guy is there, we won't turn him down because Doyle has a scholarship.

Irrational rationalizations are the order of the day when anyone south of 4 stars commits - many ignore reality in favor of giddiness.

Can we say this together? "Doyle is a body, he is insurance, he is Merv Lindsay, and it is a better than 50-50 chance that he will be gone after one season."

If Doyle ever has a major role here, the strong odds are we won't be happy. And the strong odds are that he won't.

Marcia Parsons 7 years ago

I don't know about that. Self really likes his Chicago point guards because he thinks they are tougher than guards from anywhere else.

Jack Wilson 7 years ago

Here's how the conversation might have gone with Lindsay (perhaps a Doyle preview): Merv: Coach, you wanted to see me? Self: Yea. Just wanted to talk about your future at KU. Merv. I like it here. Can't wait for next season. Self: Merv, you know I am honest. I want to let players know what I see as their roles on the team. Merv: Right, I get that. Self: Well, we have Releford at the 3, Andrew White coming in this next season, then Brannen Greene the next. Both are 3s that can play some 2. Merv: I know that. Self: And we'll be recruiting other guys there .. top rated guys. Merv: So what are you saying? Self: I'm saying that I don't foresee significant playing time for you in the next two seasons. Merv: But if I work hard, I can beat them out. Self: You could, but I'm talking probabilities here. I want to be fair to you. This is about you, and your future. You only have one future. Those two guys coming in are real talented, highly thought of players that can play now. Is it fair for you to be in that position, fighting in-coming players every season for playing time? Merv: So you think it's not fair to me to stay, or that you want me to go? Self: You are free to stay, and to be on the team. I like you. I don't want you to go. But I have a bigger responsibility than this team. I am responsible for each of you. And I just don't see any real playing time. You want me to be honest with you, right? And that's why you came here. To play. You deserve that. Merv: You're right, I want to play. But what has changed since I signed and you told me I could compete to play? Self: Andrew White and Brennan Greene. Those two weren't committed. You know, that's how this works. We recruit every year. We might have gotten kids that you would have stacked up better against. Look, I'd probably want you to redshirt this coming season anyway. So you'd sit out a year. Merv: And I'd sit out a year if I would transfer, is that what you're saying? Self: What I mean is that you wouldn't lose any time by transferring, vs. if you stayed. But this is your decision. What is best for you. Not KU, but you. Merv: Ok .. I'll think about. Self: Oh, and you might talk to Joe (Dooley) .. he can discuss with you more in depth the situation. He might be a bit blunt, but you need to hear from him. It's something that has to be figured out here pretty soon .. you wouldn't want to miss the opportunity to land at the right place if that's your choice. Merv: Ok, thanks. Self: Joe's in the hall.

Ok .. maybe not just like that - you get the drift. Be ready, Milton, this could be you. It was Tyrone Appleton, and Quintrell Thomas, and it was Merv Lindsay. It may be Lucas/Peters/Traylor at some point. As JB pointed out a while back .. best term ever to describe .. OAF (One And Flush). It ain't pretty, but do we want scholarships clogged up when better talent is available? Those that get flushed find a home. Usually the home they should have found in the first place.

lothario64118 7 years ago

My thought is Traylor will be the one transferring. If Peters played FB at his size he'll be a beast in BB. Lucas will develop nicely. I just see Traylor as the less talented player. Although he is from Chicago so he may be have a tough mentality. Lucas could be the soft one.

Then again, too many combo guards coming in to have serious playing time for most. If Self could split playing time 60/40 for the players that may work.

NebraskaJayhawk 7 years ago

Dumb post. The OaF theory is a theory at best. Programs losing lesser talented players to lesser talented programs is nothing new.

NebraskaJayhawk 7 years ago

And by the way, quit trying to be like Jaybate. At least his long-winded posts are intelligent and sometimes entertaining.

Jack Wilson 7 years ago

I've been longwinded, unintelligent, and low on entertainment value for quite a while now.

I do note that you, on the other hand, have no information to provide.

Lesser talented players leaving better programs for lower programs is nothing new .. the point is why it happens, and how it happens. Too deep of a thought process, it appears. It just happens. Like the milk in that shows up in your grocery store .. it just happens.

NebraskaJayhawk 7 years ago

That's just just happens. It's part of college sports in any sport, not just basketball. There's no big conspirosry needed as to why it just does. You don't know the mind of Bill Self any more than I do, so quit trying to make it sound like he's got this grand plan to bring in players for one year....use them on his practice squad, and then flush them. Is it possible? I suppose, but very unlikely. The point I am making is that this is nothing new and your theory makes Bill Self, one of the greatest minds in modern college basketball, look like a total loser. I just don't think posting crap like that is respecting the man.

texashawk10 7 years ago

I don't always agree with your posts HEM, but this one is probably accurate minus the Dooley part at the end. I do disagree with you about Doyle. I'm not saying he's the second coming like some are, but I don't think he's going to be a transfer candidate either. I do think based on the video I've seen of him that if he had played his junior season and played AAU ball last summer, that he would be a top 100 player. A low 4/high 3 star player that will contribute at KU by his junior season. Depending on how recruiting and his development turns out this season, Doyle could end up being the primary backup 2 guard behind McLemore in 2013.

FoCoCoHawk 7 years ago

" more thing, Merv...the mexican food in Albuquerque is terrific!"

jaybate 7 years ago


I enjoyed your post.

Thick skin is a pre-requisite for branching out. :-)

Martin Rosenblum 7 years ago

Merv out - Milton in.

What happened to those basketball names like Scooter, Scoop, Cookie, Tiny, etc. We're starting to sound like a barbershp quartet.... Ben, Jeff, Milton, Tyler . Well, ok, there is Elijah, Jamari and Nadir. Never mind!

jaybate 7 years ago

And don't forget Rock Chalk Dalk Sadler being added to the coaching staff; that counts as some name flamboyance.

These things go in cycles. :-)

By the way, your post prompted me to consult a Nameologist on line named Sister Lina Wertmuller-Carunchio-Lanzetti. Her website is www.SevenBeautiesSweptAwayinaWhirlofS...

I asked her to look into the future and tell us some future names of KU basketball players.

Sister Lina looked in her crystal ball--a stack of broken panavision lenses tied together by pink brassieres and Gianncarlo Gianinni's support stockings. She said she foresaw some European recruits resulting from KU playing overseas late this summer. Her predictions are:

Romano "Road Runner" Fornari, Neapolitan Mr. Basketball

Dino "The Dunk" Fraticelli, Sicilian Black Hand Player of the Year

Ettore "Memphis Designer Dunk" Sotsass, Jr., Milan Design League Player of the Year

Renzo "The Little Architect" Piano, Jr., Engineered Architecture League Point Guard of the Year

Sergio "The Little CEO" Marchionne, Jr., Imported from Detroit Power Forward of the Year

Michelangelo "Don't Call Me Michelangelo" Caravaggio, XII, Descendants of Past Masters League 6th Man of they Year.

Sister Lina says Bill is letting the beard grow and sporting the Roman reentry shields in order to man-up to European recruiting, before Barry Hinson gets them all.

Jeeveshawk 7 years ago

Finally the Milton Doyle thing is settled.

Michael Sillman 7 years ago

HEM, as far as I am concerned you are clogging up this website with purely fictional conversations that are unnecessarily insulting to past and future Jayhawks. My guess, which is as good as yours, is that Merv looked at the situation and initiated the conversation himself to get some playing time closer to home. By the way, I think we'll hear some good things in the coming years about Merv's performance at New Mexico. Your comment about recruits South of 4 stars demonstrates an ignorance of basketball history.

Jack Wilson 7 years ago

Hmmm. Ignorance. I appreciate that word. You're not calling me stupid, just uninformed. I can accept that.

However .. and you knew there would be a however .. I'd simply ask that you review the high minute contributors on the KU teams of the last four or five years. Start with our title season. Cite for me the "stars" associated with that team, and their rivals ranking. All 7 rotation players, plus Cole, were 4 or 5 stars.

Look at this past season. Robinson, Releford, Taylor, EJ, Withey. All four star players (EJ was a five). They played a massive amount of the minutes. Teahan, Young, and Wesley played roles, but only because they were forced to. McLemore (4 star) and missing on top big guys in recruiting led to that. The exception to the rule.

And you can't disprove the rule by the few exceptions. The exceptions are far outweighed by the many, many that don't pan out. The exceptions I would point to that Self brought here were Reed (3 stars) and Morningstar (3 stars). On the other end, a 5 star player that didn't live up to billing was Selby, though he didn't stay long enough to do much.

My comment was about the irrational giddiness. I tend to think that history shows you can be correctly or rationally excited by the 4 or 5 star player, even giddy .. as the odds are you have a real player. But the odds are that the lower player will not pan out as a major contributor at a school such as KU. Thus, it is not rational to be giddy.

So, you really think that Merv, and Tyrone, and Quintrell, just showed themselves the door? There is a word for that -- naive.

RJ King 7 years ago

I don't mind cynicism. However, you criticize others for making assumptions, yet you do exactly the same thing.

The very nature of posts during the off-season is going to be celebration, criticism, nostalgia, or speculation. I find your double standard hypocritical.

Jack Wilson 7 years ago

Bay: I guess I agree with you to a certain extent .. there's lots of speculation. But I tend to try to ID the stuff that is just plain irrational. Where there is no logical reason or sensible evidence to take a position .. I'm always interested in a response that identifies the logic.

Mind you, things that are irrational in my mind are just in my mind -- which could, in and of itself, be irrationality defined.

ABeesus 7 years ago

I always read your posts; they make good sense to me. Thanks for writing them, HEM.

Michael Sillman 7 years ago

Please note that my 4 star comment did not refer to "KU" basketball history, only basketball history in general. KU has always been fortunate to have a plethora of 4 and 5 star recruits. However, the list of 3 star and lower players at other schools that have gone on to stardom is much too long to post here.

Two examples:

Stephen Curry, not in the top 150 with no scholarship offers from any major university.

Marcus Denmon, barely cracked Rivals at #150, a pure 3 star recruit from Kansas City.

I think that you underestimate the intelligence plus the desire to play of Merv, Tyrone, and Quintrell to not be able to spot the writing on the wall and make their own decisions. The word for that is arrogance.

Jack Wilson 7 years ago

I guess I don't disagree on the number of good 3 star guys .. but I am talking about odds. No stars. No ranking usually means something. Odds. Not the exceptions. That's where you're missing the point. For every Denmon, there's a handful of washouts or 4 point per game guys; or a starter at Wichita St. For every Curry, there's 20 guys that suck. For every VCU, Butler, or George Mason, with a well developed group, there are hundreds of crappy squads that can't get into the tournament or out of the first round. Odds.

I also do grant you that all three could have spotted the writing on the wall and made their own decision, without any nudge from the coaching staff. I just don't buy it.

Michael Sillman 7 years ago

No problem. We'll agree to disagree. My point in that it pays for a coach to buck the odds on occasion.

Vernon Riggs 7 years ago

There is no limitations to the internet. HEM can write 1000's of pages of 'purely fictional conversations that are unnecessarily insulting to past and future Jayhawks' and he would never even come close to filling this bucket. While I do not consider HEM's posts ingorant or insulting, if only allowed posts on this site that could past a test that domonstrates an understanding of basketball history, the site would be almost empty. The internet was invented to be full of diverse and opposing viewpoints. We won't be able to watch games for five months. It opens our time to write about who we thing should or shouldn't get a scholarships, how conversations between coaches and players might have happened, how someone's else opinion is wrong and our opinion is 100% correct. There is no limitations to the internet. HEM keep posting. I will keep reading.

Ray March 7 years ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

hawk316 7 years ago

Mush, I know it must seem to you like Simien went off the deep end with his religious commitment. Perhaps I can help you to understand what happened to him.

Have you ever fallen in love? (If you haven't, hopefully you'll be fortunate enough someday to experience that.) When a person has a genuine encounter with Jesus Christ, it is much like falling in love, but better. It is totally life changing.

It's like what the late actor, Steve McQueen, told Billy Graham just before he died of cancer. When the very ill McQueen placed his faith in Christ after receiving a visit from the famous evangelist, McQueen said, "I've been looking for this all my life."

Hope that makes sense.

hawk316 7 years ago

Oops, I see Mush's comments were removed for violation of usage agreement. To put my reply in context, Mush had made a somewhat derogatory remark concerning Wayne Simien's Christian faith. My response was an effort to help him understand what had happened to Wayne.

Ben Simonett 7 years ago

Did we take Wesley's schollie away for this kid?

If so, thats just dumb. Wesley earned that schollie and deserves a heck of alot more than a kid thats going to be playing somewhere else a year from now.

RJ King 7 years ago

Kansas didn't recruit Wesley out of high school. He voluntarily transferred from Lamar into a walk-on spot. Likely because he had family ties to the program. He was granted a scholarship last year because we had one.

It's not like he's leaving the team. His brother will pay his tuition - the brother making $$$$ over in Europe. These kids know exactly what they are signing up for - the circumstances, the risks. To imply that they are getting unwittingly screwed is an insult to their intelligence.

texashawk10 7 years ago

Bill Self and Keith Langford have had this discussion before. Keith Langford is willingly paying for his brother's tuition to allow Bill Self to have an extra scholarship available to make KU as good a team as possible.

jaybate 7 years ago

Keith is no dummy.

If he can keep 6-8 Justin getting better this year and next, then Justin is likely to be able to play over seas for a while and pay Keith back with interest.

Keith is a good brother.

Justin, do him proud.

Beat some of the multi-star suckuhs out!!!!!!

Kristen Downing 7 years ago

The KC Star is reporting that he is not qualified yet. The Chicago Tribune quotes his mother as saying he has online courses that have to be ok'd....? They are both very recent stories. Not sure which is right.

Bobby Burch 7 years ago

Doyle is a beast! He's a quick, consistent shooter, an accurate passer and a great athlete. From the highlights I saw, it seems Doyle loves playing defense, too, and posted quite a few blocks. Hopefully he'll be eligible right away.

Like Tait said, this team is going to be ridiculously deep! Rock Chalk!

Gil Ek 7 years ago

At least two redshirts next year. Who???

Jesse Johnson 7 years ago

"You want to know what it's like to have a 4th kid? Imagine that you're drowning... and then somebody hands you a baby."

-Jim Gaffigan

Congrats to the Simien family!

Bobby Burch 7 years ago

Haha! Jim Gaffigan a.k.a Mr. Universe, is hilarious!

Jonathan Allison 7 years ago

I can picture the boys vs girls 3 on 3 basketball games at the Simien household.


Jim Haack 7 years ago

Congrats Wayne. We need more players / alumni like Wayne.

Jackalope7 7 years ago

I hope Doyle does well. After watching highlights on youtube and mind you I'm no scout. But, he doesn't seem to have too explosive nor is he all that fast. It's hard to tell since the talent around Doyle's team and the opposing team, seemed sub par at best. But, I may be missing something. We'll see what happnens. RCJH!

jaybate 7 years ago

Worst case: Milt is an OAF, gives good practice, and goes to SIU after a year.

Middling case: Milt is a long 1 that can defend the point, give 5 minutes per half in back up the next 4 years, and graduate with a degree.

Best Case: Milt really is a 6-4 sleeper at the point and Self has the point and the two backed up for 3-4 seasons while he goes hunting for 5 star PGs.

Unless and until the NCAA AD cartel restores 4 year guarantied rides, this is the risk-return matrix that makes Self take the flyer on players like Milton Doyle and potentially costs them a year of eligibility.

jaybate 7 years ago

Mongrel Doggerel for the Freshman...

Milton Doyle comes to toil.

Perry Ellis will be very scary.

Zachary Peters will swat some skeeters.

Landon Lucas will jam with abandon.

Andrew White will soon take flight.

Anrio Adams will play con brio.

Evan Manning will do spot-up canning.

But Tyler Self just rhymes with Tyler.

RJ King 7 years ago

This should be required reading for all KU recruits. Most excellent!

This is KU basketball. All the above, plus: if you shoot a 3 off the dribble, you had better make it. Self will put up with not using the clock, as long as you're on fire. If you miss, he will burn a time out faster than you can look to the bench, and you will feel the heat in front of a national TV audience.

DanR 7 years ago

Please, enough with the one and flush (OAF) narrative. Just bury it. It's not clever. It's offensive. While they're here, these guys are Jayhawks, not "bodies," turds, or whatever else some of you think the non-starting bench players and outward transfers are. Bleh. Maybe I shouldn't expect so much from the top posters on here.

On a lighter note, welcome, Mr. Doyle! May you reach your full potential and surpass everyone's expectations (like so many others before you) in the crimson and blue.

jaybate 7 years ago

"DanR, One and Flush, and an Online Community's Virtual Cafe Function"

Your post makes you seem like too many persons that would rather look the other way than call attention to an apparent injustice in order to help solve it.

Sometimes the truth is neither clever, nor pretty, but simply accurate.

Accuracy and truth are next to godliness in analysis, or the analysis is spin.

Mostly mainstream media cannot take this issue on, because to do so would imply some criticism of head coaches, and local sports reporters cannot sustain "access" by criticizing coaches apt to be around awhile. Mainstream media tend to take off the gloves about issues of injustice only with coaches on the way out. Its the reality of the media business: when ever long term access to a news source is necessary, the local media does not take that new source on directly.

I believe the media professionals don't like this constraint, but they accept it as one of the necessary compromises of the their professions and of the media businesses they work in.

This is exactly where commentary in online communities can and should participate IMHO.

An online community does not require its own access to Coach Self, or the NCAA, or the players, or the Network talking heads, or the gaming community, etc. Therefore an online community is free to discuss an issue openly that local sports journalists appear to have to tread very carefully on, and also appear to rather not discuss much at all.

But by the online community discussing it openly, regardless of which POV-yours, mine, or someone else's--tends to predominate, the issue becomes part of public discourse and so tempts some in the media and coaches and AD and Chancellor and NCAA into the public discourse in order to make themselves seem less accountable, or even opposed to what is going on. OAF is here to stay until the NCAA makes a humane choice and either restores four year rides, or ends the asymmetric (and unfair) requirement to that players must sit out a year in order to transfer.

Online communities have a great role to play in the future of public discourse in this country, at least until the powers that be decide to muzzle online communities.

Savvy media professionals understand that they can feed stories to an online community that will provoke discourse about certain issues that they could not cover directly for fear of jeopardizing access and/or advertising.

jaybate 7 years ago

Savvy media professionals understand that fora like this one are something that can not only generate clicks, but also act as countervailing forces to monopoly news sources, like a head basketball coach, or a head football coach.

Online communities are mostly large versions of small town cafes where people used to break and gossip about the local high school, or college team. Gossip in old cafes used operate independently of the talking points of coaches and of news reporters. Mostly the cafe gossip was just socializing. But when important issues surfaced, cafe gossip often vetoed the talking points of the coaches and reporters. Savvy coaches and reporters began to realize they had to pay some attention to what the gossip in the cafes was and they had to anticipate and shape it on major issues. Politicians learned the same thing.

Online communities are Americas new cafes.

I am glad you took a moment and responded to my use of One and Flush (OAF) to describe recruits with lesser chances of lasting more than one year before transferring and then unfairly being forced to sit out a season.

I am glad you opined frankly that you don't like OAF as a label for this unfair circumstance certain recruits are placed in because the NCAA rule appears patently unfair to the players.

I wish you would also take the time to write more about this unfair rule in language that you believe will appeal to more persons in our virtual cafe.

Or, alternatively, I wish you would explain to those in the virtual cafe why this seemingly unfair NCAA rule is in fact in the best interests of the player. Were you to make a case that makes clear to me that the NCAA rule is fact fair to players, or at least more fair for them than a more symmetric rule, then you could surely get me to stop using OAF and instead advocating for the virtue of this seemingly unfair rule that you had revealed.

jaybate 7 years ago

Otherwise, OAF remains in my active vocabulary.

For what its worth, I believe savvy media professionals understand that online communities can be fed stories that incite commentary that contributes to a coach getting run, as well as, righting wrongs.

Any technology, any medium, can be used for good or ill.

But just because a medium can be used for ill is not excuse for not using it in the pursuit of good.

Until you, or someone else, can persuade me otherwise, this NCAA scholarship convention that lets coaches run a player without a consequence, while the player has to sit out a year to transfer, appears an ugly, ornerous institution unworthy of Division One college basketball; one that exploits the young men, and one that I will continue to refer to as creating OAFs.

NCAA, change this rule, or explain why not.

Chancellors, advocate to change this rule triggers OAFs, or explain why not.

ADs, advocate to change this rule that triggers OAFs, or explain why not.

Coaches, advocate to change this rule that triggers OAFS, or explain why not.

Sports journalists, advocate to change this rule that triggers OAFs, or explain why not.

A lot of young men are losing a year of eligibility because of this rule and this appears to harm a lot of young men trying to prepare for a professional career in basketball over seas, or at home.

The rule is even triggering DanR to feel disapproving of jaybate for describing one of the effects of this rule as OAF.

Change it, or explain it.

The people at the virtual cafe are talking now.

DanR, would you pass the virtual cream and sugar?

jaybate 7 years ago

Note: all of the three preceeding related posts by jaybate are opining and speculation.

RJ King 7 years ago

Agree, but you are preaching to the choir. An NCAA rule change is not likely to come about via derogatory remarks within this message board. To use the OAF phrase here - where we see our recruits and players as real people - is offensive and pointless (passive-aggressive).

If you are really that passionate, mount a campaign and pro-actively lobby the NCAA, chancellors, AD's, etc. using your coined phrase. The ugliness of the metaphor in a collective plea to the right entities might eventually provide the impetus for change.

RockChalkDoc 7 years ago

I love Shepherd's middle name. Good job, Wayne. Congatulations to one of my top 3 favorite Jayhawks of all time.

Steve Kubler 7 years ago

There is a reason to take a shot at unrated players. Just look at Jeremy Lin, it's rare but it happens. Finding that diamond in the rough has to be a coaches dream.

Not saying Doyle is that diamond, just saying not to rate a guys KU career before he steps on the court.

I'm ready for midnight madness!

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