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Friday, June 15, 2012

Bill Self a fan of new recruiting rule

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A new NCAA rule that will allow unlimited phone calls and texts to recruits who have finished their sophomore year in high school begins today. The old rule allowed just one call a month and no texts.

“I think it’s good,” KU coach Bill Self said Thursday on the Big 12 summer coaches teleconference. “Anytime you can put yourself in a situation where there’s more communication, where you get a chance to know families and recruits better ... that is nothing but positive. It should help a ton in the long run over the course of a recruitment of any player. I think it’s going to be more work for coaches, but I think the good far outweighs the bad.”

Coaches this summer are allowed to work two hours a week with their players in a group practice setting.

“I think it will be beneficial from not just a playing standpoint but academic standpoint,” he said. “You get to have a chance to have more contact with your guys. Whenever you have more contact, kids do better in school. It’s a proven fact. Why do kids do better first semester than second? When the season is over, there’s not as much contact.”

KU will be allowed to hold 10 practices in July leading up to the foreign trip to Switzerland and Paris. Self said he’s looking forward to the practice time more than the games against pro teams in Europe.

“We can get a feel for some things our guys can do in our schemes and maybe adjust some things,” Self said. “I think it’ll be beneficial for us and hopefully give us an opportunity to be better early in the season because we will have four seniors and after that basically one sophomore and the rest freshmen. It’s kind of a weird dynamic. The extra practices can help us quite a bit.”

Schedule update: Kansas University’s basketball team will play Richmond on Dec. 18 in Allen Fieldhouse and Oregon State on Nov. 30 in Kansas City’s Sprint Center, KU schedule-maker Larry Keating said Thursday. The Jayhawks will play Temple and Colorado at home to begin a home-and-home series. Also, KU will travel to Ohio State and play Michigan State in Atlanta. The entire nonconference schedule should be announced in the near future.

No news on Adams, Doyle: Self was asked if Seattle Rainier Beach High combo guard Anrio Adams would be joining the team soon. “Nothing’s been official yet. He is finishing up schoolwork, so without saying too much, I’ll just leave it at that. Obviously he has to finish a couple things before anything can really happen,” Self said.

Adams and Milton Doyle, a guard from Chicago, are expected to receive KU scholarships only if they qualify academically through the NCAA Clearinghouse.

Comments

Ben Kane 2 years, 4 months ago

I have a feeling your whole family is going down.

KUfanInFlorida 2 years, 4 months ago

Richmond, Temple and Oregon State....sound like cream puffs. I was hoping they would make a tougher schedule.

longhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

Well, they also are playing Ohio State in Columbus and Michigan State in a neutral-court game. I've never found any reason to criticize this staff's scheduling. Last year they ended up with the #1 toughest schedule in the nation, according to KenPom.com. The schedule will be just fine.

miajhwk 2 years, 4 months ago

temple was a 5 seed in the ncaa's last year (lost in round of 64 in the annual 12-5 upset). richmond made a deep run 2 years ago, i believe to the final 8. colorado was an 11 seed last year, lost in round of 32 to a very talented baylor squad. the schedule will be fine.

Steven Mathew 2 years, 4 months ago

2 years ago, Richmond made a deep run...to the sweet 16. Then they faced Kansas, and lost. We then lost to VCU, but I'm pretty sure you don't want to hear that again.

omng392 2 years, 4 months ago

I think over the course of the last five years we've had the top two or three schedule every year. I'm not worried about our schedule.

Cmill1221 2 years, 4 months ago

Richmond is 1-0 vs KU at Allen Field House.....

SaltLakeHawk 2 years, 4 months ago

Yup. Sadly Richmond owns Allen Fieldhouse.

To Richmond, Allen Field House is "whatever-the-hell-their-building's-name-is ... WEST"

KULA 2 years, 4 months ago

Unlimited texts to 16 yr olds? That's kinda creepy. Is this what recruiting has come to? I guess I'm just old school.

miajhwk 2 years, 4 months ago

or you're just old. no one under the age of 50 talks on the phone anymore, it's all texting. especially kids.

John Boyle 2 years, 4 months ago

I think the point was TOO many texts to a 16 year old kid. There shouldn't be unlimited anything (texts, calls, fax, letters,etc.) to a 16 year old recruit.

Dirk Medema 2 years, 4 months ago

Should this be called the Kelvin Sampson Rule?

Or is this the We got tired of counting Rule?

I'm not sure how providing some limits on coaches/adults contacting recruits/kids/students is good for anyone but the adults. Does this really strengthen the premise that the NCAA is concerned about Student/Athletes?

Now where is that sarcasm font?

Millsey20 2 years, 4 months ago

I think you got it right w the we got tired of counting rule. They want one less thing to police. All about the workload.

Lash 2 years, 4 months ago

Hard to keep track of cheaters. Self likes it because it levels the playing field a bit.

LAJayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

I just find how they are easing into the changes rather amusing. They went from 1 call and no texts to.... infinity everything.

Baby steps, you know?

Jim Baker 2 years, 4 months ago

How pissed-off is Kelvin Sampson? LOL

chi_town24 2 years, 4 months ago

Milton will be at ku next year. I'm starting to understand people on here have NO idea what there're talking about. So from now on I will sit back and read all the speculation with no credible sources, but my brother will be a jayhawk people.

Alohahawk 2 years, 4 months ago

chi_town24, the problem with the internet is that there are so many posters who go to the different sites and post all sorts of messages, good and bad, true and untrue, that one doesn't always know who they can trust. And we, as Jayhawk fanatics, only want the best when it comes to KU, especially in basketball. As for me, I'll reserve my judgement, but I will say this. I'd like to believe in two things:

  1. That Milton Doyle has the abilities which his high school coach has so vociferously claimed, while remonstrating that Milton's poor recruit ranking doesn't truly reflect his abilities. Obviously Milton has talent since he performed at a high level in Chicago and the surrounding areas. And with KU's need for a good back-up point guard, Milton (along with Anrio Adams) would give Coach Self other options if needed. (And I am not throwing Tharpe under the bus, because we want to believe in him, but he has yet to prove he can handle that responsibilty.) 2. That you really are Milton's brother, and that we, the Jayhawk Nation, can trust what you post. Brother or not, you seem honest in stating that Milton will be attending KU, and we have heard him say KU is his first choice. Plus, the fact that he hasn't expanded his recruiting since visiting KU would seem to indicate he will soon be wearing a Jayhawk uniform. As his brother, any insight you give us regarding Milton will be appreciated (at least by me). For example, not to be too nosy, but any information regarding his graduation/grades status would be of interest. Realistically, when can KU expect to see him on campus? Let's just say if Milton can perform half as well as his coach claims, I'm sure we will happily eat any crow that may have been dished out.

chi_town24 2 years, 4 months ago

He already graduated and its not a matter of grades that's the problem its a online class that he took that we were worried about but it was on campus at his high school and in our state it is legal as long as it at your school but anywhere else that would have been a sticky situation. And also he is leaving this Sunday to come to ku.

JayDocMD 2 years, 4 months ago

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to seeing Milton in Crimson and Blue.

Don't worry about the naysayers on this and other boards. The internet is full of posers and half-wits, most of which are Mizzery fans. Granted some of these posters are Jayhawks. The only thing I can say is that even though the Jayhawk Family has the best fans in the world, unfortunately there are a few crazy Uncle Eddys that we just have to tolerate.

DCJayhawk0208 2 years, 4 months ago

I think it's fantastic that you're on the board providing info (given that you are actually Milton's brother).

Welcome to the Kansas family! Your brother will never regret the choice!

Andy Tweedy 2 years, 4 months ago

If there was anything more than speculation, we'd be reading about it in the LJW, not on this board. Fortunately for everybody, our coaching staff knows when it's appropriate to comment and when it's appropriate to keep their mouths shut.

Kevin John 2 years, 4 months ago

This Jayhawk Team is sculpting into something real special and lethal. ROCK CHALK CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

nuleafjhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

Your avatar is something real special and lethal !!

leonard 2 years, 4 months ago

"...we will have four seniors and after that basically one sophomore and the rest freshmen. It’s kind of a weird dynamic." - Coach Self

Here's hoping that Junior-Justin Wesley can change that dynamic.

Ted Toulouse 2 years, 4 months ago

Somewhere Kevin Sampson is going, "Really? Now you change that friggin' rule?"

jhox 2 years, 4 months ago

Or, he may be thinking he'll never be a successful college coach again, because he just lost his competitive advantage.

miajhwk 2 years, 4 months ago

also, kevin's brother kelvin is thinking the same thing.

KUFan90 2 years, 4 months ago

Or maybe he is thinking of changing his name from "Kevin" to "Kelvin".

Tony Bandle 2 years, 4 months ago

I have yet to read anything KUFan90 has ever posted!!!

kerbyd 2 years, 4 months ago

To quote nuleaf, "Your avatar is something real special and lethal".

bennybob 2 years, 4 months ago

Of course Self likes the new recruiting rule. Now he'll be on even playing ground with the Kelvin Sampsons of the world who never adhered to the old rule in the first place.

Whats the NCAA's policy on a coach following a recruit on twitter and friending them on facebook, assuming no communication is made?

Can a coach retweet? can he "like" a post?

Look up John Callipari's twitter and compare it to Self's, Callipari is much more active in the modern forms of communication, its probably part of the reason he's so good at recruiting.

jaybate 2 years, 4 months ago

You pose an interesting hypothesis about greater use of modern media communication improving recruiting success.

But...

There are a lot of coaches like Sampson, and Haith, and others that have used the media and not been wildly more successful than Self at recruiting.

My hunch about Cal remains so far unverifiable, asymmetric incentives (like those mentioned in that unrestricted Chicago newspaper awhile back) being offered, not greater frequency of contact via modern communication.

Still, your hypothesis is definitely worth examining in Self's relation to other coaches trying to do it the right way that may also be out-recruiting him.

But I am not sure that those guys are consistently out recruiting him.

LAJayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

I'm not sure why this article didn't mention it, but the change in the rule also allows coaches to communicate through twitter and Facebook.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8054728/ncaa-deregulates-texts-calls-college-basketball-recruits

What I also didn't realize (probably would have also been nice to mention in this article) is that all that contact was already happening, but it was occurring through 3rd party sources to circumvent the rule. This actually allows for direct contact by the coaches, which actually does sound exceptionally better.

Knowing that now makes this rule change make a lot more sense.....

jgkojak 2 years, 4 months ago

How about this rule-

you are allowed one phone contact or text a month. You are allowed one in home visit per year. And NO CONTACT prior to Junior Year of HS. You are allowed one official on-campus recruiting visit ever. Period.

These prima donna HS players don't need all this attention lavished on them.

Oh, and violating these rules... automatic suspension from coaching your team for 1 game for every violation. Done.

LAJayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

All the contact was already happening by 3rd parties. This rule change actually allows coaches to make direct contact instead of using a surrogate which is completely impossible for the NCAA control and regulate. The contact is going to happen one way or another. It actually makes more sense to have that contact done by the coaches and have the communication all be open and honest.

When you legalize something, you (generally) eliminate the black market.

Michael Maris 2 years, 4 months ago

In regards to Anrio Adams and Milton Doyle, it sure seems mystifying that KU's staff continues to go after these kids that are academically questionable. Shouldn't last year have taught the KU Staff to lay off of these academically suspisous kids? Sure, the roster will be fuller this year (than last year). But, the past issues with this situation seems to be getting no better. If you are going to fill holes with roll-playing individuals, then why not scour the Juco Ranks in Kansas, Oklahoma, Florida, Texas, etc.... Darius Johnson-Odom (former Marquette player) was in Hutchinson, Kansas (when KU needed a guard). DJO was already academically qualified. But, he wasn't recruited very highly out of Highschool. So, he went to the Juco route. KU needed guards then (when DJO signed with Marquette). Sometimes, Self's style of recruiting baffles me. I do not question his coaching abilities (at all). But, why does he have such a hard time in getting the elite recruits to come to KU. Looking at Kentucky's roster, there were 3 players (Terrence Jones, Kyle Wiltjers and Doron Lamb) on the Kentucky roster that Self and staff were recruiting. Yet, KU get's none of them. In the past 2 Kentucky Rosters, there have been 4 players (with Brandon Knight). Instead, KU got Josh Selby (instead of Doron Lamb or Brandon Knight). Baffling.

Millsey20 2 years, 4 months ago

Because the elite recruits wanna just go burn through the inconvenient year of playing in college... and they wanna make it a party and put their game on display. They don't wanna become team-first, unselfish, defense-oriented players who sacrifice their own stats for the good of the team.

The question you SHOULD be asking is why does Bill Self get the recruits he does? Its amazing to me that Kansas is able to continue the great tradition year in and year out. Simply go to weatherbase.com and compare the average climate in Lawrence, KS to most of the schools landing the "elite" recruits. Kentucky is the only one that's somewhat comparable.. but there's the Calipari factor there. That's a different subject altogether. But nearly everywhere else, North Carolina, Florida, UCLA, Texas... Kansas is simply at a major disadvantage in that regard. The warmer the weather... the skimpier the girls clothes.

Seriously, what did you think about most of the time when you were 16, 17 years old? Don't think because these kids' lives are basketball that they are any different about that.

To me, Kansas and Kentucky both overcome a lot to continue to be the top 2 in wins.

texashawk10 2 years, 4 months ago

Or leggings with just a t-shirt on showing off some fine booties.

Jack Wilson 2 years, 4 months ago

Protown: I'm not sure why you have not yet been vilified. Slow day, maybe. You have committed heresy, my friend. Punishable by, alternatively, stoning, beating, and/or firing squad.

Do NOT challenge coach Self's recruiting. You have been warned.

By the way, you do remember Tyrone Appleton, don't you?

And the real question you should ask is, "Why does coach Self struggle to win?"

Not a good question, is it?

I do wonder why we don't nail down a few of the top, top guys .. meaning a top 20 guy each season .. but are those guys really the best fit for coach Self and his approach? I tend not to think so. But he does pursue them so he must think so. Lots of factors, I'm sure, but the best explanation I have is exactly what Trevor Lacey said -- coach Self was honest with him about the fact that he wouldn't likely play much as a freshman with TT, EJ, and Selby (Self apparently thought Selby would be back). I have no doubt that Self is brutally honest about a player's role, and that turns off many in the top tier. Also, I think Self has the reputation of not being particularly "freshman-friendly" .. and the Selby deal didn't help. Best I can come up with.

Jesse Johnson 2 years, 4 months ago

"I do wonder why we don't nail down a few of the top, top guys .. meaning a top 20 guy each season .. but are those guys really the best fit for coach Self and his approach? I tend not to think so."

From Rivals: In 2005: Mario Chalmers - #12 Brandon Rush - #13

In 2006: Darrell Arthur - #16 Sherron Collins - #21

We don't win the championship without these recruits.

Curtis Stutz 2 years, 4 months ago

Of course Calipari had a bit better team this time around than last. Not that Memphis wasn't good, but they weren't 5-6 1st rd picks good.

bennybob 2 years, 4 months ago

Self won a notional championship with a roster 5-6 deep of top 20 recruits.

I don't think there is any concern about these guys being "the best fit for coach Self and his approach"

jaybate 2 years, 4 months ago

Self's style of recruiting may baffle you, but what baffles me is his ability to win 84% of his games, a ring, and a second place last year with 5 D1 players, two band aids, and a bunch of yell leaders.

My inference is this: Self knows exactly the kind of player that can win with him. It is partly about talent, but partly about swagger and brains, and partly about the willingness to sacrifice his body for the team; i.e., play hurt.

Self obviously operates from the POV that he has more faith in his own ability to mask and patch with what he's got and trusts, than in his ability to operate with guys that may lack the swagger, or the brains, or the willingness to sacrifice the body.

I really don't think one can knock Self for this with his results. Each coach has to coach to his strengths. Self likes heady guys with swagger, he is good at playing them out of position and breaking them through to new levels, and at challenging their manhoods and pushing them to play through injuries. Self's approach is often slow. It often takes him an extra year or two to develop his players into what his scheme needs to be successful. Self is not very strong and developing guys on the floor. He seems to be more a practice coach. Games are when he tries to mask and patch and outsmart other coaches, not a time for developing players.

Cal, for one example, appears better at pampering players egos, creating pre-fab slots for them, and then getting them to learn on the floor while playing. He is quite good at this approach. Like Self he wins a high percentage, has a ring, and has finished second.

Cal is right to do it his way (if it is all on the up and up). Self is right to do it his way (which seems to be on the up and up). If either tried to adopt the other's approach, they would both probably suck at it.

jaybate 2 years, 4 months ago

And everyone in this thread avoids talking about the possibility of check-book recruiting shaping recruiting outcomes, and about the agent/merchandizing/AAU/juco pimp conveyor belt shaping outcomes--a conveyor belt that Self has apparently rejected.

Self is apparently "not playing ball with the syndicate," as they say in the movies.

It appears that neither is Coach K. Neither is Billy Donvan. Neither was Norm Roberts.

We know from Norm Roberts' situation that there is a kind of syndicate at work.

And we know from Norm Roberts cast that there are costs to not going along with the syndicate.

You don't get the favorable hype from a lot of the talking heads and analysts.

A whole bunch of talent never chooses you, or others outside the syndicate, and tends to sign with certain coaches and programs that appear in the syndicate.

Some in the syndicate are so bold that they even speak out in print about coaches that won't go along to get along.

Can I prove the existence of the syndicate beyond the tentacle of it that surfaced around Norm Roberts at St. Johns? No.

But could I have proven the existence of any syndicate that ever existed in any realm of wrong doing without investigative resources and subpoena power? No.

But a bit of logic used to tell persons that there seemed to be syndicates in places like New York, Chicago, Philly, New Orleans, Miami and Kansas City, long before The Feds did the leg work to prove it.

When the coach with the highest winning percentage the last five years, or so, and a ring, and a second place finish, and two straight 30+ win seasons is losing guys to the likes of Ben Howland, and John Calipari, and Stumpy Miller on a regular basis, something seems possibly rotten in Denmark.

Capice?

(Note: all of the above is opining and speculation. I have no insider knowledge.)

Danny Hernandez 2 years, 4 months ago

Like Terrance Jones would have started over one of the Morris Twins or played behind TRob? We had no room for Terrance and he wouldn't have been better than TRob so why even take him plus what a head case he was.

Lamb not coming to Kansas baffled me but Self really wanted Selby. It all works out in the end...quit crying

bennybob 2 years, 4 months ago

Hmmmmm....

I'm willing to be if i were to copy and paste that comment i'd have 10+ replies by now calling me a troll and a variety of derogatory terms.

This guy gets a couple kindly worded critics?

WTF?

oldalum 2 years, 4 months ago

It has been stated many times on this board that it's easier for Calipari simply because he needs a new team every year, so the one-and-dones can feel pretty sure they are going to get plenty of playing time immediately. From Bill they hear that they will need to work hard and beat someone else for a position.

vhgawith 2 years, 4 months ago

these recruits are not promised playing time under coach self...they have to earn it, many are not looking for that, they want playing time now.

jaybate 2 years, 4 months ago

"Good/Bad"

~Cell phone rule change:

Good--Awesome opportunity for sale of a lot of automated calling software to athletic departments.

Bad--legalizing cheating means either the NCAA made a stupid rule, or the NCAA no longer cares about what is best for the student athletes and their families.

~Adding summer practice time:

Good--summer school grades will improve.

Bad--subtle first step in laying foundation for expanding summer exhibition basketball season to generate more revenue to cover the cost of having the kids come to school in summer rather than fall. Got to get them practiced up to play these pre-season exhibitions over seas that will one day generate some gate and broadcast revenue, and promote the players to the European pro scouts, and underwrite some recruiting over seas. Why pay for anything, when you can work the kids a little harder and get them to generate the money?

~Adding the Richmond Spiders:

Good--team needs early exposure to the Princeton.

Bad--team can be upset by early exposure to the Princeton.

~Adding Oregon State

Good--Raises KU's recruiting profile in Portland.

Bad--If Romney loses, beating the first lady's brother may make Obama pick against KU again.

~No news on Doyle and Adams:

Good--No news is sometimes good news.

Bad--No news is sometimes bad news.

~Sadler hiring:

Good News--likely economic stimulus when Doc is forced to retool his wardrobe for KU game days.

Bad News--Doc may waste too much time throwing darts at picture of Dr. Tom to direct basketball opps.

~Keith Langford's 40+ points:

Good--KLang is exactly what this team needs.

Bad--he is no longer eligible.

~Having Jayhawks on both NBA finalists:

Good--a Jayhawk wins another ring.

Bad--a Jayhawk loses another ring and probably gets traded.

~Joe Dooley getting passed over for a head job again:

Good--he's back on our side.

Bad--he won't be for much longer.

~Having jlost1972, who never graduated from KU, apparently off his meds:

Good--he's posting again

Bad--reactionary dementia isn't pretty.

Alohahawk 2 years, 4 months ago

Doc Sadler throwing darts at T.O. - LMAO

NBA finals - Missed the first half of game 2, but the second half (almost) comeback was exciting to watch. Thought the Thunder played better (caught up at the end) when Collison was in the game. Mario made some minor mistakes (but so did others), but he's played pretty da*n well for a second round steal in the draft.

As for scheduling, it is becoming obvious that a lot of the top ranked teams (read BCS) refuse to play against KU in AFH. They'll play on a neutral court (sometimes, as in pre-season tourneys), but they just don't want to schedule an automatic lose, which is what the field house has become for 98% of KU's competition. I give credit to the next tier schools (ie. Temple) who have consistently come to AFH to play. Cal Lie Pari gives the excuse (not to play Indiana) because he wants to play in huge, domed buildings to ready his squads for the NCAA tourney. I see that as hogwash (read hogs***). He is just scared to play good teams because he knows UK could easily lose on their opponent's homecourts. If tourney prep's the case, why not schedule all UK's games away from Rupp. Bet that would make the UK faithful happy.

jaybate 2 years, 4 months ago

Great takes. The other schools keep stonewalling, because they feel Self would get greater recruiting bennies in their backyard from the exposure than they would get in KU's backyard. They are right. This is why KU has to push the Big 12 into expanding into an east coast foot print. KU has to get the frequent TV exposure back there, because the major programs are running and hiding, as usual.

LAJayhawk 2 years, 4 months ago

I posted this link above, but for anyone who actually wants to understand more about the rule change, this gives some decent information. Would have been nice if LJWorld would have given us more background on it all:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8054728/ncaa-deregulates-texts-calls-college-basketball-recruits

I think Bob Huggins actually summed up the rule change quite well:

"You know, honestly, I think it's just too hard to keep track of," West Virginia coach Bob Huggins said. "If you can't legislate it, if you can't enforce it then you probably ought to just go ahead and make it legal. I think that's kind of what happened with Prohibition."

Jack Wilson 2 years, 4 months ago

Leonard pointed out the quote above:

“I think it’ll be beneficial for us and hopefully give us an opportunity to be better early in the season because we will have four seniors and after that basically one sophomore and the rest freshmen. It’s kind of a weird dynamic. The extra practices can help us quite a bit."

Wesley is a junior .. hmmm.

Conclusion: Wesley won't play. He was a body last season and Self sees better bodies. When he played last season, there were only flashes that he should be out there. But those flashes were very limited and he has no real upside. But he was crucial last season as a body. This season we have more bodies that are options. And they need to develop.

Ok. 1) Withey 2) EJ 3) Releford 4) KY. My opinion, and Oakville's (that cite is to lend credibility to my opinion), is that all seniors are starters to begin the season. McLemore gets the 5th spot. Ellis and Tharpe next. Likely Traylor (who I'm guessing is really a Richard Scott-esq 6-6 in shoes). That's 8. Ellis will start over KY at some point .. whether it's game one, or beginning game 7. If he doesn't displace KY .. unless KY grows the 'fro a little bit and does his best Iceman routine .. that will be a big blow.

But the most interesting battle will be for the 9th rotation spot. Peters vs. Lucas. Lucas is no 6'10". He and Peters both seem to be in the 6'8" range.

Who's betting that defense will decide that one?

But I don't think one will get a redshirt. Self has to see which one is more effective, and that won't be determined until a number of games in. Heck, maybe not until mid-season.

Alohahawk 2 years, 4 months ago

Mostly agree, but I'd bet that White will surprise, and will be a good back up for when Ben and Rel need breathers (if for no other reason than as a defensive stopper). With a season of Self ball under his belt, Tharpe should have the inside track for backup PG, but that will depend on what Adams and/or Doyle can bring to the table and how soon they can assimilate Self's system. I'd also bet that during practice the post players may need to wear pads, because there may be some major banging/competition down low. All for the better in the long run.

After last season's lack of depth, Self must be feeling much better about the upcoming season's possibilities.

bennybob 2 years, 4 months ago

I think its just basketball tradition to always overestimate player heights.

My coaches did it from 3rd grade through senior year. Everyone likes to be "taller"

also, it could be an intimidation factor. whats more freighting seeing 7'0 Withey and 6'10" Trob on the roster or 6'10" Withey and 6'8" Trob?

jaybate 2 years, 4 months ago

The short take on how the bigs unfold is:

a) a tough rebounder and scorer has to play with Jeff on the first string; and

b) a tough rebounder and defender has to play play the second string 5, when KY is the second string 4.

The rest sit.

The longer version goes like this.

It seems improbable that KU can play Withey, 235, and KY, 185, in the paint more than symbolically for a few minutes at a time, so as to let the freshman know they can't just walk in and take a spot.

Withey could not take and sustain an offensive position on the blocks against anyone on UK, nor even against Kim English.

KY could run and jump around, but he also could not sustain a position on the blocks.

Self can't start two guys that can't even sustain on the blocks in a high-low offense. It won't hunt against any teams but cupcakes.

Inference, Jeff starts and has a tough rebounder in tandem with him.

Kevin is second string 4, and needs a heavy duty rebounder playing the 5.

Once conference starts Perry has to be starting at the 4, Zach's got to be the first big off the bench for Jeff, and KY comes into fill for Perry.

KY and Jamari will fight it out to back up Perry. One of the two is going to wind up sitting quit a bit.

Landon is a red shirt.

jaybate 2 years, 4 months ago

Post script:

Justin is a dark horse in this bunch, but he needs to put on 15 more pounds if he wants to play. I am not at all down on him as some are. I think he will become a factor the minute anyone in the first four gets slowed by an injury. Justin is 6-8, or 6-9 and he has guarded the post adequately at times; that counts for a lot given this vertically challenged bunch of incomings. The newbies will get the early work against the cupcakes, but then I look for Justin to slowly grind his way back into being a 15 minute man--a third 5 that gets used during the Saturday Monday stretch.

Jamari is a wild card. Self said he might have started him last season had Jamari not had to sit. If he is a real Dennis Rodman, TRob kind of boarding machine, then I could see him becoming a starter along side Jeff. But I've always doubted that Jamari was that good. IMHO, 6-7, 215 pound 4s are a waste of time, except when you need to go small, say against Travis Ford's runts.

Bottom line: Self has to get a rebounder into the 4 at all costs, an enforcer. Jamari could be that guy, but its a long, long shot with what the recruiting cat dragged in.

Michael Sillman 2 years, 4 months ago

I don't agree with Jaybate regarding Kevin Young. At the end of last year, Young displayed a special talent that coaches will kill for: offensive rebounding. And he did it against high quality teams in the post season. His passing wasn't bad either.

Good offensive rebounders are a rare breed. You need the quickness to get around the box outs, desire, and that innate ability to predict where the rebound is going while the shot is still in the air.

If Young can continue to hit the offensive boards, adds a bit more muscle and avoids last year's silly fouls, he will be a 30+ minute per game guy. Certainly if Ellis can pull down rebounds on the offensive end plus be a scorer in the half court set, he'll take minutes from Young but that's a tall order for any freshman.

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