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Andrew White, right, posted this photo of him, Zach Peters, left, and KU coach Bill Self to Instagram on Sunday, June 3, 2012.
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Future Kansas University point guard Conner Frankamp, who earned first-team all-state honors after averaging 32.3 points a game last season for Wichita North High, continues to emerge as a major player nationally on the spring/summer AAU scene.
Frankamp, Rivals.com’s No. 42-ranked player, was named tri-MVP of the Pangos All-America Camp’s “Top 30 Cream of the Crop Showcase” on Sunday in Long Beach, Calif. The 6-foot-1, 160-pound senior shared the award with Stanley Johnson, 6-6, junior, Mater Dei High, Santa Ana, Calif., who is ranked 18th in the Class of 2014, and unranked Zena Edosomwan, 6-8, senior, Harvard Westlake High, North Hollywood, Calif.
“He’s a tremendous three-point shooter who plays with savvy and great confidence. He was one of the top five guards here, if not top three,” tourney organizer Dinos Trigonis said Sunday night, referring to Frankamp.
“I’d say he reminds me a little bit of (Jeff) Boschee, a little bit of (Kirk) Hinrich. He can shoot threes and is good off the bounce. He’s good at creating separation. He worked hard in the drills. A lot of teams would have interest in him (if KU hadn’t landed a commitment last July 17).”
Here’s what others had to say about Frankamps’s performance at Pangos.
Jason Hickman, of MaxPreps, added: “It’s tough to circulate around the gym for even a couple of minutes without hearing a fellow camper or observer mention his name.”
Ryan Silver, coach of Los Angeles Pump N Run Elite, on Twitter, commented: “Kansas commit Conner Frankamp is much better than I thought. He makes everyone better and is a great kid. He was impressive.”
Dave Telep, ESPN, on Twitter: “Conner Frankamp won me over as PG not just shooter. Cliff Alexander has a chance to be nasty.”
Alexander, the most outstanding performer overall at Pangos, is a 6-9 junior from Chicago Curie, who is ranked No. 8 in the Class of 2014.
Frankamp has 1,641 career points. He’s 591 points from passing KU freshman Perry Ellis as all-time leading scorer in Wichita’s City League history.
Frankamp will travel with USA Basketball’s Under 17 team to the Cayman Islands later this month, then compete in the FIBA World Championships in July in Lithuania.
“I can’t wait,” Frankamp told MaxPreps.com. “It was so fun last year and such an honor to put that USA jersey on (for gold-medal winning USA team at the FIBA Americas U16 tourney). To be a part of that team was something I’ll never forget.”
Of his play at Pangos, Frankamp told MaxPreps: “I just wanted to try and get better and play against the best competition. I wanted to get ready for USA Basketball, too. I figured this would be a good tournament for that. I just want to get my game up as much as I can.”
Move-in day: Incoming KU scholarship basketball players Ellis, Andrew White and Zach Peters, plus walk-on Evan Manning moved into Jayhawker Towers on Sunday. White, 6-6 from Charlottesville, Va., proudly posted a picture of him, KU coach Bill Self and roommate Peters (6-9, Prestonwood Christian, Plano, Texas) to Instagram off his Twitter account Sunday.
Ellis, 6-8 from Wichita, will room with Manning, 6-2 out of Free State High and New Hampton Prep School.
Landen Lucas, 6-9 from Portland’s Westview High, will graduate June 11 and arrive at KU a day later. He’ll be rooming with junior Niko Roberts. Anrio Adams, 6-3 from Seattle, who has orally committed to KU, has said on Twitter he’ll arrive at KU on June 28. It’s believed he’ll be a member of the incoming recruiting class as long as he qualifies academically. He has indicated on Twitter and Facebook he should have no problems qualifying.
Another addition could be Milton Doyle, 6-4 from Chicago’s Marshall High, who will graduate on June 9. It’s believed Doyle, who has not made any other campus visits since a mid-May trip to KU, likely will attend KU if he, as expected, qualifies academically.
Doyle and his family members are not commenting publicly on his recruitment at this time.
Shepherd excels: Karviar Shepherd, 6-9 senior from Grace Prep High in Arlington, Texas, who has KU, Louisville, UCLA, LSU, Georgetown, Oklahoma, Texas A&M and Tennessee on his list, played well at Pangos.
“Shepherd has always had good hands and played with confidence on the offensive end. Now, he’s catching, turning and facing the defender and going to work with jab steps, jumpers and good decisions. He looked polished and seemed like he was ready to play,” wrote Eric Bossi of Rivals.com.
Conner Frankamp says he made 400 of 410 shots on his best day June 17, 2013
KU camp game highlights: June 12 June 12, 2013
Perry Ellis talks about playing with Conner Frankamp and getting teased about losing his Wichita scoring title June 11, 2013
Jamari Traylor describes why he became emotional when complimented at camp by Bill Self June 11, 2013
KU coach Bill Self talks about signing of Andrew Wiggins May 14, 2013
Comments
ukanjhox 1 year ago
Is Doyle still expected to attend even if he doesn't get offered the scholarship? It doesn't look like Bill's going to give him one.
By the way, Frankamp will be hanging in the rafters one day. OK, that's jumping the gun, but I haven't been this excited about a recruit in a long time. Unless you count Ellis.
omng392 1 year ago
Me too.. I'm not sure who I'm more excited to see Ellis or Frankamp
rockchalk1990 1 year ago
That's funny! I haven't been this excited about a guy since the other guy also coming in this fall!!! I'm with you...just busting your chops a little!
hawk316 1 year ago
Count me in that company, as well. I'm really looking forward to Frankamp putting on the KU jersey and draining lots of threes. I'm actually pleased also to learn that Doyle may still be coming to Lawrence. From what I read, it sounds like he may really be a sleeper.
ralster 1 year ago
How about all-time Wichita prep scoring leader (Ellis) on the same KU team as soon-to-be 2nd all-time Wichita prep scoring (Frankamp)? Stay tuned to 2014, but we have yet another top 10 team+tourney run in 2013.
Other questions: Should we hold the "funeral" for Bruce Weber now, or wait til after the season?
kayjku 1 year ago
Zach Peters....yum! Welcome to KU!
kujack21 1 year ago
I agree with kayjku, and I am not a female. Jayhawk nation is a diverse one.
bigjay83 1 year ago
If there is nothing wrong with it if the poster is male, why do you "hope" he or she is female?
Or I suppose you were just quoting "Seinfeld" for the humor to hide your homophobia?
Har-de-har. Hilarious.
jkilgore 1 year ago
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Alohahawk 1 year ago
I spent two enjoyable years living at the Towers my Soph. and Jr. years. They were nice at the time, although the kitchens, if you could call them that, left a lot to be desired. The apartments weren't spacious, but were accommodating. The best part, if you faced towards the North and were high enough, was the view into the Pi Phi house windows across the way. And it was nice mixing quarters, most of the time, with the football and BB jocks. (I remember a time when a certain football player, not to mention any names but his nickname was the Centralia Freight Train, was rumored to be responsible for ripping the rubber door stopper loose on one of the elevators after a night's partying. Or maybe that was his baby brother?)
All that was 35 - 37 years ago, or so, and knowing how age can factor into the housing formula, I can imagine the Towers would seem pretty dreary after that many years have passed by. Especially, being located at the bottom of the hill.
One other thing. When Coach Self extended his contract a few years ago, I believe one of the things he requested/demanded was to upgrade the BB players's housing facilities. The problem may be availability of land nearby to build a new structure. They would probably want any new quarters to be within a short walking distance to AFH. And not far from the main campus.
Anyway, ukanjhox, I would agree that new housing should be, and probably is, a priority on Coach Self's want list.
Alohahawk 1 year ago
PS. The picture above, of Peters, Self and White, looks like it was taken inside the Towers. Those bricks look a little familiar. (?)
MinnesotaJay 1 year ago
John or Junior, no doubt (the elevator)!
Nokona 1 year ago
35-37 years ago? Must have been Billy 'cuz Junior and John were long gone. John may have been back for a visit, though.
Alohahawk 1 year ago
Sorry, my age is catching up to me. I graduated 37 years ago, in '75. So, my Soph year would have been ''72 - '73. Which makes it 39 - 40 years ago. I do know that John played while I attended KU. Because KU played a football game vs Nebraska (which might have been my freshman year) in which NU was ahead 10 to 0. Then KU roared ahead 20 to 10, but ended up losing the game. Riggins made a memorable touchdown run (of about fifty yards or more) in which he ran through the Cornhuskers, knocking players right and left, losing his helmet halfway through the run. If I remember correctly, he scored the touchdown putting KU up 20 to 10 on that play. The details are a little sketchy after so many years.
krazyjhawk 1 year ago
I will have to ask Bill if any of this sounds familiar next time I see him. He and my father are great friends and its not terribly difficult to get old stories out of either of them.
kureader 1 year ago
During the time you mentioned, the towers were new. But they put 4 players in one of those apartments ... now, I'm pretty sure it's just 2.
kureader 1 year ago
The Towers were first built in 1969 or 1970. If I'm not mistaken, Bud Adams (Phillips Petroleum?) was involved with financing the project ... his son, Gary, played safety for the Jayhawks. Conveniently located within view of the Pi Phi house (if those walls could talk!)
BayHawkaholic 1 year ago
Ha Ha. The Centralia reference caught my eye. Yes, John was certainly back on campus from time to time when he was a Jet. I was walking around the Tower area my freshmen year and he pulled up alongside on his motorcycle and offered a ride. At first I said no, but he was persistent. I finally agreed but, "only if I can wear your helmet." I still had no idea who he was.
The LJW had recently run photos of the evolution of his hairstyles. When he removed his helmet to reveal the hair of the month - a Mohawk - I instantly recognized him. Didn't know whether to be flattered, embarrassed, or intimidated. But the ride back to Corbin was memorable, for sure. And Riggo always made me laugh.
texashawk10 1 year ago
Each of the Towers have undergone renovations over the past few years. While still not the most aesthetically appealing place to live, they are much nicer than they were prior to the renovations.
konkeyDong 1 year ago
The Towers are a dump. My wife lived in them for a year. You had to cut the edges off a frozen pizza just to get it into the oven. Having bright, shiny, new housing facilities for the football and basketball teams certainly couldn't hurt our recruiting efforts.
wissoxfan83 1 year ago
Yeah, lets give kids who are guaranteed 5 years of a college education absolutely free nicer places to live. I love KU basketball, paid a mini-fortune for me to see them in New Orleans, but get tired of seeing these kids being treated as someone too good to live in modest housing.
As for recruiting do we want a kid who chooses a school based on the accommodations? Probably not.
HighEliteMajor 1 year ago
I would say that we already have our answer. You can be sure that if the housing was an issue to coach Self in recruiting, it would already be taken care of.
jujubean 1 year ago
Coach still considers them an issue. The practice facility was priority one and the improvements to the Towers were priority two. I believe I have heard him say that new living quarters are planned in the coming years.
LAJayhawk 1 year ago
One would think they could renovate the towers in the same fashion as the other dorms. Shut one tower down at a time and totally redo it. No need to find a new location, just upgrade what you already have.
swunruhawk 1 year ago
The portion of the towers, where most of the basketball team lives, was nicely upgraded 3-4 years ago. It's nice.
raprichard 1 year ago
Unless I am mistaken, after we won the NC in 2008, better housing was one of HCBS's big issues. Shortly thereafter, KU renovated at least one of the towers. I'm guessing the renovations were pretty nice, but I haven't been in the towers in many years, so I really couldn't say for sure. If we haven't heard anything about it the last four years, it must not be an issue.
mouseclicker 1 year ago
I was living in the Towers the year we won the championship in 2008, in Building D, the football players' building. At the time Building C was being renovated, and that was normally the one the basketball players stayed in. For free housing it's pretty nice, especially only having one other roommate. I had 3.
Alohahawk 1 year ago
Must say that the recruits HCBS has coming in over the next two seasons (so far) have been receiving nothing but high accolades. If they're half as good as reported, the Jayhawk Nation is in for trick or treat early. Makes waiting for the forthcoming seasons that much more exciting, and frustrating because of the long wait before we get to witness them on the court. It's sort of like during last season, with all the high expectations for McLemore and Traylor, knowing they were around but unable to help during game times.
How many days till Late Night in the Phog? Something like 163 days?
Rock Chalk to all future Jayhawks !!!!!!
kellerman411 1 year ago
I like to see pictures of Self standing with recruits for a very odd reason. Some kids or their coaches or parents tend to inflate their size a bit. 6'8 turns into 6'10... Bill Self is every bit of 6'3 so these two clearly bring good size. Peters is a monster.... Wait til' Hudy is through with him.
mouseclicker 1 year ago
After Tyshawn's debacle, I'm sure most sports news outlets have dedicated people to follow players' Twitter feeds, hehe.
REHawk 1 year ago
Nice camera angle: Peters 5 bricks taller than Self.
oljhwk 1 year ago
This is an outstanding group coming in. I don't remember another class as talented and/or highly rated. In 1 to 2 years we should be making another deep run in the tournament. Can't wait for BB to start!
wissoxfan83 1 year ago
Why wait 1-2 years! Let's keep this thing rolling based on lessons learned this year.
addlime 1 year ago
Wright (8), Chalmers (12), Rush (13), Downs (28) Referred to as the "Fab Four" when they arrived on campus in 2005
This class is great, but no comparison in my book.
addlime 1 year ago
To be fair, I'm bet you are including BMac and Traylor in this years class, and that does make it a lot closer :)
Ok, I'm super psyched too! Hope we are deep enough at guard.
cooonrod 1 year ago
Downs ... what a flop.. pitiful.. Mario the top... but Ellis , McClemore , White with returning Withey , EJ , Travis well to much to look forward too.. add Conner and couple more top recruits the next year... well setting up like 07 08 wooo hooo
jhox 1 year ago
I'm still not convinced Frankamp will play the point. If he can, that's great, but I believe it is much more likely that most of his time will be spent at the two. When I saw the headline my first thought was, "what point guard has committed?"
I've seen clips and highlight tapes of him, but I've not seen him play in person. In the limited clips I've seen, he looks like a guy who is a tremendous scorer, who can put it in from anywhere, but his midrange game was especially impressive, with a great pull up jumper in traffic. He did remind me of Heinrich in that respect but I didn't see Hinrich like speed and quickness. I'm very anxious to see him play. I do know his AAU team has been doing well this summer, with him leading them.
Brock 1 year ago
Frankamp will be an excellent-shooting combo and the point guard will be a lightening-quick, ball handler who can set up plays and pass. Out of the Class of 2013, the one who fits the description is Anthony Barber.
BigManU 1 year ago
jhox: I'm not sure if you have seen Frankamp play lately, but he seems to be getting better and better with a little chip on his shoulder. You may very well be right about him playing the PG spot, but one thing I think national scouts are starting to figure out (Telep) is that CF is making them eat their words right now (The Telep and CF retweets apparently got CF fired up).
I think this is one kid you don't want to doubt or "Challenge". Actually, I hope it keeps happening because the kid keeps improving and those doubting him............he keeps making look foolish. Personality, drive, attitude, work ethic..........I see Hinrich through and through. Games are different, which is fine, but I like his Personality.
What's amazing is how young he is for his class. I believe he will just be turning 18 by the time he reaches KU's campus next summer. I think his b-day is this month or next.
jhox 1 year ago
I've not doubted him as a player. I think he's going to be great. I have a close friend who has seen a lot of him, and who knows basketball, and he said the kid is for real, and has been the best player at most of the AAU tournaments he's played in. I've not seen him in person, only on video and clips. I'm not suggesting he's slow, either. It looks like he has a deceptively quick first step. I just know Self likes fast point guards who can defend ultra quick guards. Time will tell if he can start at the 1 at KU. I have no doubt he'll be a factor for KU, the only question I have is will he be able to play the 1.
BayHawkaholic 1 year ago
Love the shot, love his attitude. Does anyone know how tall his parents are? I hope he is still growing but up and out. Hinrich was around 6-3" correct? Every little bit helps.
BayHawkaholic 1 year ago
both up and out.
dagger108 1 year ago
jhox -It sounds like you have a little Ryan Silver in you.
Ryan Silver, coach of Los Angeles Pump N Run Elite, on Twitter, commented: “Kansas commit Conner Frankamp is much better than I thought. He makes everyone better and is a great kid. He was impressive.”
No reason he can't be an ultra-quick 1, unless we're profiling.
aerohawk 1 year ago
So they couldn't find a picture of the guy the article was about?
dagger108 1 year ago
yu missed the part about moving in?
KGphoto 1 year ago
Bill always looks good this time of year. Got his tan and stubble going.
LAJayhawk 1 year ago
Ha. I was thinking the same thing. He's a rather photogenic dude. Almost always takes a good picture, even when he's not trying.
honk4tad 1 year ago
Gary - Regarding Anrio Adams, he tweeted a picture of himself filling out some type of application and indicated they were documents making his decision to KU "official" -- grant-in-aid paperwork, perhaps? Do you know if KU has actually received anything from him?
konkeyDong 1 year ago
AA doesn't finish school until this week, then he'll have to wait for his final grades to be compiled and shipped off to the NCAA clearing house. Barring failing to meet the base requirements (a 2.4 GPA with his ACT score of 18, if memory serves me), he thinks he'll be on campus at the end of the month. I imagine his financial aid papers are in, so he's just waiting approval there and finishing school. Of course, we won't know what's to become of him officially until the clearing house gets through with him, so who knows if/when he'll get a scholly for real.
OakvilleJHawk 1 year ago
Just tuned in...my wife is recovering from surgery. I had no idea she did so much [actually I did but it hits home when you do it all :)]
Comments on the article's picture:
1] Holy crap...for a moment I thought Conner grew 8" in the last month!!! 2] Holy crap...for a moment I thought is that Conner on the right?? 3] Holy crap...who is that crusty old sailor with our recruits?? 4] Bill's facial beard varies from baby smooth to Moses long...but his hair never changes!! 5] The Towers were built while I was in school. In the early 70's, and natural stone and brick were huge design elements...also, you saved a ton of money by eliminating fixing punch-out holes in drywall!! 6] I would suggest Conner focus on his defense his senior year...offense wins the hearts of coeds...defense wins the heart of the head coach!!
Please, someone just shoot me..all I hear in St.Louis is how the SEC is the Second Coming of Christ. I will cheer for anyone playing Missouri...and that includes Kentucky!!!
marchphog88 1 year ago
Co-sign on item #1!
I opened the article and sat there staring dumbfoundedly as I tried to figure out how Self was shorter than Frankamp. The best part was all the deductions I went through in my brain...
First, it was elation: [Holy crap! I didn't know Connor was so big! He's gonna be impossible to guard!! The white Lebron James!!!!]
Followed by disappointment: [Oh, the article notes he's only 6'1"...]
Followed quickly by confusion: [But wait, didn't Self play ball in college? Surely, he's closer in height to a 6'1" kid than that, right?]
And then, epiphany: [I know!!! I'll read the image caption! Eureka!]
All these Caucasian kids look the same to me. I keed, I keed--I'm Caucasian as well. :-)
nuleafjhawk 1 year ago
Oakville - here's hoping for a speedy and full recovery for your wife. For her sake, and for yours!!
OakvilleJHawk 1 year ago
Amen, brother...amen!! THX!!
drgnslayr 1 year ago
My thoughts are with you and your wife for her speedy recovery!
"4] Bill's facial beard varies from baby smooth to Moses long...but his hair never changes!!"
He's on a production break from his appearance on "Survivors - the College Basketball Coaches Addition." I've seen all 3 shows in the pilot series. Loved the premiere where Calipari was booted first and kept saying how it didn't matter... over and over and over. He edged out Calhoun by one vote.
jaybate 1 year ago
Tell Mrs. Oak that jaybate will go short this season, if she will heal. This will leave Mr. Oak more time for Mrs. Oak. Patients need small incentives to get better. :-)
OakvilleJHawk 1 year ago
WOW, JB...I'll get out the pogo stick..heck, a little ole hysterectomy shouldn't slow down anyone!! Only kidding...if you go short, some of our fellow posters will have nothing to bitch about. :)
texashawk10 1 year ago
There will always be the track around the football field debate and something about the name of school being wrong or something along those lines.
LAJayhawk 1 year ago
What, no comments yet about the use of "Kansas University"? Manginorh00lz, ukanjhox, et al are slippin'.....
Kubie 1 year ago
They are all still foaming at the mouth from the misused picture! :)
Jeeveshawk 1 year ago
They should have posted a picture of Frankamp instead of Peters, White, and Bill Self.
Conner Frankamp is listed as an sg, not a pg
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/104931/conner-frankamp
HighEliteMajor 1 year ago
They'd just run the exact same picture they always run.
Conner is listed as a pg at rivals. http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Conner-Frankamp-111888
Jeeveshawk 1 year ago
Alright, being versatile is good for a guard. Imagine how bad of shape we would have been in this past year if Elijah couldn't have played both guard spots.
jaybate 1 year ago
"Pretties, Yes, But Where's the Hard Pretties?"
Zach appears pretty.
Andrew appears pretty.
Perry appears pretty.
These guys are almost UNC pretty.
Shave the face hair on Perry and he could be an Ermengildo Zegna model.
What? Is this going to b? the All-Pretty Recruiting Class of 2011-12?
Is Self growing facial hair to try to compensate some ugliness for these bathing beauties?
Yea, yea, one's the best high school player in the nation. One's a football and basketball star in Texas. One oozes perimeter talent and length. They are all going to be great playuhs.
Talent is good. Pretty is good.
But we need some ugly too.
Not butt ugly, but junk yard dog aggressive ugly.
Junk yard dog aggressive ugly is really "hard pretty."
We need some hard pretty.
DBlock was hard pretty.
Thomas was hard pretty.
JTRay and Ben Mac are not really part of this class. They are last year's class a year late. So they can't count either way--not pretty, not hard pretty.
How about Landon, Anrio and Milton. Any hard pretties among them?
This is the Big 12 and this is Self Ball. We have to have a few guys in each recruiting class that look like they could run a back hoe in Chiapas or a livestock barge on the Niger, or work on the killing floor in a packing house in Byelorussia.
If we don't have such hard pretties, this class will not be taken seriously when it comes time to grind one out in East Lansing with Ratso's radiation mutants at ten below zero.
What is up here, Billiam? Has Cin finally civilized you? Are Kurtis and Joe and Norm no longer registering high enough testosterone levels to recruit hard pretties with red meat from rutting bulls?
Show me the hard pretty!
:-)
79ictjhawk 1 year ago
Did you say something about going short? ;-)
ralster 1 year ago
Jaybate, Did Chalmers & RussRob & Rush & Tyshawn-whippet look "tough" when they arrived at KU? (Im supporting your point): Ellis+Frankamp+Peters+White have heard & seen Self and Self's teams. They know better than anyone what Self is expecting in the toughness dept--and they signed up for Self's challenge--that tells me an awful lot about these kids, just like Josh Selby accepting an almost impossible mission for a frosh (taking on Selfball challenge), a tall order for a 'healthy' frosh. Recall Chalmers and RussRob struggled mightily their frosh seasons... Toughness is a state of mind. Look at the difference in mental toughness between 3ppg/3rbd 2011 Withey, and this year's Withey...didnt change much in wt or muscularity, but changed alot between the ears...
Good lord, scatter for the hills: 240 lb Peters + Hudyization = scary monster proposition for KU opponents (...yet with a Polo-posterboy face?). There will be a very, very healthy battle between 240lb Traylor & 240lb Peters for the post mpg. I think Withey + Ellis start. Then bring some beeeef off the bench in waves. Hehe, if finesse dont work, bring out the bludgeon. Then you also have 10 more fouls to give in Wesley and Lucas, unless Lucas redshirts, but I have no idea on his incoming skillset.
HighEliteMajor 1 year ago
For the Gottlieb haters .. a bit from his insider article where he mentions guys to skip and someone to take instead:
... instead, take Royce White White outplayed Robinson head-to-head in their two matchups this past season, but that is short-sighted in terms of why it would be wise to take White over Robinson. White is a far better ball handler and an elite passer for a big man (albeit one who is short but strong enough to play 4 and some 3), and he is far more comfortable on offense away from the basket. That last element will be key because both White and Robinson will be asked to play more away from the basket in the pros.
White is not the jumper that Robinson is, and he has his anxiety disorder to deal with, but that should not scare NBA folks away. White is widely considered exceptionally bright and has been very open about his disorder. Robinson makes you better as a team with his effort and athleticism, whereas White makes you better by creating easy shots for himself and his teammates. In the NBA world of isolations, White is a far better prospect. He is too strong for thin post players and too quick for the big trees. Cut away the Final Four and player-of-the-year talk that surrounded Robinson and think about who has more of a pro game. I would take White.
mouseclicker 1 year ago
I used to sorta like Gottlieb, but the more I read of his writing and the more I listen to his radio show, the more I realize he has absolutely no clue what he's talking about.
ralster 1 year ago
Translation & opposite judgement: TRob with the work ethic and the big-time hops = NBA 'potential'. We know that means good things for TRob. Regarding Royce White--> "anxiety issues" translate into "meltdown". Saw it with my own eyes in AFH. Things didnt go his way = "headcase". How well is that going to translate to NBA?
You want a guy who puts his helmet on when the going gets tough and loved ones are falling all around him? (Nice story, my effin azz!) Or you want a 6'7, 240lb baby-tantrum meltdown on the bench in a hostile environment, right when you need a player to be tough?
Better idea, and I proposed this vs. Anthony Davis (who cannot bang with Thomas): Have TRob and Royce White play a 1on1 game...who would you bet on, considering each one's skills? My guess at the end is a familiar grin from Thomas Robinson, and a familiar tantrum somewhere over on the bench from Royce White, likely with a bloody nose from getting dunked and/or teabagged by TRob. Between these 2, there is only 1 beast. I wish him all the best.
konkeyDong 1 year ago
Ralster,
I've got to say I'm surprised at you. Making fun of Royce White for having a mental disorder is poor taste to say the least. Things are bad enough in this country for people with mental issues. There's no reason kick those afflicted who've managed to deal with their problems with some success. You wouldn't talk about someone with PTSD this way, would you? What about someone who was raped? Obviously, I don't know the source or Royce White's anxiety disorder, but neither do, and even if you did, it doesn't excuse the classlessness of the act.
ralster 1 year ago
Gottlieb blows. A feeble attempt to go counter-grain to foment discussion. Could one say his ploy worked by initiating debate? Then what would one say when the overwhelming % of respondents are in opposition to what Gottbrain? proposes??
phogphan2000 1 year ago
Bottom line why Gottlieb's arguments make no sense, he says TRob is more of a jumper but apparently doesn't think the ability to get off the floor counts in the NBA. He says TRob just kind of overpowered college players, but goes on about how strong White is. Well if he's so strong why didn't he just "overpower" college players? TRob and the team worked to get him good post position and he confused other teams on what he was going to do once he got the ball because he is so quick for his size and has worked hard on footwork and post moves. White is good, he's not as tall and long, doesn't jump as high, isn't as refined (except for ball handling) and Gottlieb basically called him a tweener, but for some reason pick him over TRob? I find it upsetting that people don't think TRob can play defense just because he wasn't an aggressive shot blocker. His defensive reb% had to be off the charts (unless the charts actually go to 100% I suppose), he's plenty quick to defend NBA 4's, he has the hops to contest shots, his gambling for steals started to pay off come tournament time, and he's played against a truck load of NBA talent in practice at KU and on the court. Don't get me wrong, White and PJIII are both potentially better picks, who knows, but White might not have the length/hops to get it done in the NBA. He also didn't have to put up with being flat out shoved on every catch in the post. If you're taking PJIII as a wing you should rethink it. As a post player he could be an amazing scorer, but we don't know 'cause he wanted to take 12-15 ft jumpers all game every game and didn't hit the offensive glass. So unless you're an NBA GM having seen a bunch of private workouts and a guy completely fits your vision for the team, the safe bet is definitely TRob.
marchphog88 1 year ago
Thanks for posting this. A very interesting read, but here's my take on Royce v. Thomas:
White is definitely the more versatile offensive player, but is that enough? Because at the end of the day, it's not just about which one is a better offensive prospect, but which one has more skills that will translate to the NBA, and to what degree.
This goes back to the argument I made on the original article that talked about Gottlieb's ranking of Robinson. It's not just about being a better "all around" player, it's about having skills that make you stand out in the NBA. Once you get to that level, pretty much everyone is an "all around" player to some degree. Obviously players specialize to provide what's of most value to their team, but I think most players are probably pretty skilled at all aspects of the game, given that they are the highest level of professionals.
Certainly White is a more versatile offensive player, but I don't know if he has any "elite" individual skills. Robinson, for all his other shortcomings, is an elite rebounder. Robinson can come in and immediately have a defined and absolutely vital role in the NBA. There have been oodles of highly-successful "rebounders on pogo-stick legs" in the history of the NBA. White's success will depend a great deal on the situation in which he lands. His best bet in the NBA is as a sort of "point forward", but that's not exactly the most common position--not all teams have use for that kind of roleplayer.
Even though White is better than Robinson offensively, I don't think his offensive skill set translates to anything special in the NBA. He is a big guy who can dribble and pass reasonably well. In order to stick in the NBA, he either needs to be some kind of amazing offensive talent (think a level below Kevin Durant), or he needs to be able to mix it up in the paint like most guys his size. I think phogphan2000 has White labeled perfectly: he's a "tweener".
Oh yeah, and he's a terrible free throw shooter. That sort of makes his niche as a point forward somewhat irrelevant. You have to be able to hit FTs at a reasonable clip if you expect to have the ball in your hands for any offensive initiation in the NBA.
drgnslayr 1 year ago
Gosh... I wonder who has the best attitude for playing at the next level? Think hard, Mr. Gottlieb... and don't flatter yourself into accepting the role as "Emperor without any clothing" because a clown suit counts and may promote you to jester... even if you wear your clown pants backwards.
ralster 1 year ago
konkey, My post not meant to offend people with mental illness, that is a leap--but perhaps I didnt make my non-medical point precisely enough? I am speaking purely of on-court performance. Even 'temporary' physical ailments can be a liability (Selby, Elijah). Players contribute however &avoid any team distraction, nor affect momentum. Talking more about very skilled Royce: I liked what I saw from him@ the Hilton rematch when he basically beat KU. I didnt like his big"distraction" in AFH--thus I am wary of a recurrence. Look at NBA guys who also have a significant "distraction" factor: Artest, Rodman, Iverson. The League may put up with them, but behind the scenes they either get treatment for whatever their underlying condition is, or they conquer their personality demons, if thats all it is. Like you said, we dont know all the details, nor is that necessary-->consider this: If the 'Clones were playing KU for the Conference Title and an IowaState player had a momentum changing meltdown& IowaSt lost, then wouldnt the overwhelming consensus from Clone fans be "why did that have to happen in-game like that?" I think every intelligent fan would arrive at the same conclusion: We wish player A's condition was controlled well enough so we could reliably expect to not see a meltdown in an absolutely crucial situation.
And we are only talking high-stakes basketball...certain jobs exclude personnel with certain pre-existing conditions: pilots (cardiac, some psychiatric, especially any form of psychosis), USNavy submarine crew (extremely rigorous entrance requirements, incl no 'anxiety disorders'). Why, because the ramifications are simply too severe on a team player "breaking" at a critical moment.
Lets not lose the original context: I was also squarely defending Thomas Robinson (from Gottlieb-nonsense) & painting a "picture" using publicly-seen examples of each player being discussed. So, a very anti-Gottlieb, very pro-Thomas position. Royce's history simply offers an element that NBA GM's must consider as they look at his attributes--and comparing that display of Royce's (that did hurt his team, which is my whole dang point) to Rock Solid Robinson does create a stark contrast (again, my intent). TRob didnt hurt his own team. If Royce is deemed a good fit for some NBA team, then that = awesome for him.
Derrick Thomas (KC#58)had significant asthma, but controlled it well enough to never be an on-field detriment to his team in all the years he played. As a professional, that was also part of his job. This is my other point: the onus on staying on top of his 'condition' whatever it may be is up to Royce--precisely so he can go on and have a successful career.
Dont fight conventional wisdom here: we know any interested GM is going to explicitly state & expect that Royce's is not a recurring issue.
ralster 1 year ago
Hey that Bill Self is a cool dude. But someone tell Cindy to get him some more razor cartridges when she gets back from girls-trip-to-wherever--no doubt she will arrive and very soon rectify the overzealous display of follicular leniency from Wild Bill...
drgnslayr 1 year ago
Conner is going to surprise some people. He operates like a machine. I'm trying to remember the last time I experienced a player this young with so much developed muscle memory. Oh yeah... never!
I see CS is up to his usual "Brawny Man" summer...
Rock Chalk... and Happy Grilling!
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