Advertisement

Advertisement

Tuesday, July 24, 2012

Rivalry revived: Will loss of MU be Showdown’s gain?

Kansas State football coach Bill Snyder addresses the press at Big 12 media days on Monday in Dallas.

Kansas State football coach Bill Snyder addresses the press at Big 12 media days on Monday in Dallas.

Advertisement

photo

Associated Press

Kansas State football coach Bill Snyder addresses the press at Big 12 media days on Monday in Dallas.

— Opinions are mixed when talking to Kansas State folks about the ways in which the absence of Missouri from the Big 12 might change the Sunflower Showdown with Kansas University.

But the man whose word always seems to carry the most weight in Manhattan believes the rivalry will grow.

“I don’t think in terms of rivalries, personally,” K-State coach Bill Snyder said at Monday’s Big 12 media days. “And it’s not just another game. I’m wise enough to understand that. But, as it relates to the fan base, I think the answer is, yes. I think that probably enhances the rivalry a great deal, particularly for (KU). I think K-State people have always seen it that way.”

Although it began with a 16-0 KU victory in October of 1902 — 11 years after the Jayhawks’ first game against bitter Border War rival, Missouri — the showdown between Kansas and Kansas State has remained rather cordial throughout the years.

The reasons are plentiful and certainly vary but tend to come back to the fact that, with KU and Missouri, there was true hatred that dated back to the Civil War days. With KU and K-State, the relationship was always more like battling brothers than boiling enemies.

With the Tigers now competing in the SEC and the Jayhawks vowing to keep them off the schedule for the foreseeable future, the void must be filled. As Snyder mentioned, K-State fans for years have viewed KU as their biggest rival. Now the purple people down the road in Manhattan might begin to see a little extra attention.

“It’s definitely gonna grow bigger,” K-State junior and Olathe North grad Tre Walker said, “first of all because we’re in-state rivals. You talk to a KU player, they can’t stand us. You talk to a K-State player, we can’t stand them. The thing is, I love it. I love that atmosphere. I love the rivalry. I love what it means to the state of Kansas. This is gonna be big. This could very well become a Texas-Oklahoma rivalry, so that’s why we get excited about it.”

The Jayhawks own a 65-39-5 advantage in head-to-head meetings but have lost three straight games by a combined score of 135-38. That, too, is one of the reasons the rivalry has never really popped. In more recent years, the Sunflower Showdown has been marked by mismatched programs beating the tar out of each other instead of close games that seem to be fiery and intense no matter the records.

Though they stopped short of saying it, the Wildcats on Monday made it clear that they’d like to see the Sunflower Showdown become more of an annual highlight for both sides.

“I definitely think it already holds a little more weight than some of our other games,” said junior safety Ty Zimmerman, who was the starting quarterback for the Junction City squad that topped Free State High in the 2008 Class 6A state title game. “And, with Missouri gone, there will probably be a little change in the attitude and the atmosphere. A little more hostile. But as a player, you want that. Everybody gets up for that game.”

While some K-State officials said such a change might not be noticed for five or even 10 years, Walker, who grew up closer to KU’s campus than K-State’s, said he already had seen evidence of the tide turning.

“I think it will change overnight,” Walker said. “We already have various KU fans turning the corner, saying, ‘OK, Missouri’s gone, so now we’ve gotta turn our attention to K-State.’ I feel that. Most definitely.”

Added senior linebacker Arthur Brown, who hails from Wichita: “Since Missouri has left, the rivalry may expand just by itself.”

Does that mean it will get uglier?

“A lot of people like that,” Brown added. “It brings a lot of attention. I’m not sure how it’s all gonna play out, but it’s definitely a possibility.”

Comments

ku_foaf 1 year, 8 months ago

Matt Tait,

I am going to disagree with you here. I do not believe the intense rivalry between KU and MU really stems from the Civil War.

I was a student in the early 80s. The Civil War aspect was not even mentioned. There was even a bar not far off campus called Quantrill's. This seemed to spring into common claim as the main reason for the rivalry in 2007. I think it has more to do KU and MU being big basketball rivals in the 60s, 70s and 80s. It more often than not came down to KU or MU as the Big 8 Champion.

As far as using the Civil War as the reason, most people are probably not that familiar with the history. It was extremely ugly and bloody in both states. Within each state's borders, neighbors killed neighbors. Redleg leader (later Senator) Jim Lane extracted some pretty harsh revenge after the Lawrence raid, and some of it was on civilians. He was in Lawrence during the 1863 raid and barely escaped. It was a civil war, just like Bosnia and Vietnam, and it was awful. People were killed just because of the perception they supported the other side. People in Western Missouri remember Jim Lane and Wild Bill Hickok the same way people in Kansas remember Quantrill and Bloody Bill Anderson.

People could be very surprised which side of that war their families supported. Many if not most Kansas settlers came from Missouri - after the Civil War. Western Missouri was settled by people from KY and VA primarily.

The Border War is very interesting and shocking, as so many things happened in the areas around Lawrence and Kansas City. I found out most of this through genealogy research. Don't mean to preach, but it is a pretty fascinating subject to me.

0

Ralster Jayhawk 1 year, 8 months ago

...which brings up the whole quality-control issue: Do you purple jokers even look at your own cheerleaders? Who exactly decided those fluffy marshmellows would look good courtside in any-outfit-smaller-than a king-sized bedsheet? Well, ok, you do truly like cows--I've seen the proof! Are you trying to "distract" a highly-focused, all business Bill Self team? Um, because that wont work. You want a hint, well take a hint from Texas Longhorns: They put a red-head hottie w/major katoongs who stood a lot behind the KU bench during a nationally televised ESPN game. Even she couldnt distract Bill's boys, we still beat a loaded Texas team at their house. Credit Rick Barnes for trying everything. Go Google "Ariel Angelovich" (aka Texas redhead). Now slowly and painfully pan over to (any) image of purple cheerleaders...ouch! Hurts, doesnt it?

0

Ralster Jayhawk 1 year, 8 months ago

...And what about that "emaw" thing? Sounds like what the animal utters during the 'animal husbandry' thing, if you ask me...Hey, maybe I dont want to know...Or, are you excluding your "women" fans with your every-man-a-pussy chant? And why exactly did one of you idiots post above "Manhappiness"? Hey, are the two concepts linked: animal husbandry + manhappiness, emaw? So this is what happens when dummies cant get any women, eh? Those ultrafatass people in cheerleader "outfits" are just plain laughable? Hey, yall welcome to visit the Univ. of Kansas a-n-y-t-i-m-e you want to see some real hotties...that is if the old Ford can make the short drive to Lawrence. Or you can see them at our home-away-from home in that Tyshawntagon-of-gloom when we come veni-vidi-vici-visiting once a year! Glad we can brighten at least 1 of your miserable days yearly, even if the scoreboard on that day cannot.

0

Ralster Jayhawk 1 year, 8 months ago

...what exactly do you purple pussies mean by 'animal husbandry'? Explain that one.

0

Ralster Jayhawk 1 year, 8 months ago

Lets stuff 9 purple pussies into a football, and get Dayne Crist to rifle a bomb over to Iraq and hopefully it lands on an i.e.d.-->Boom--> Purple fireworks, purple rain, whatever metaphor u want! Again, no disrespect for a fellow Kansas Board of Regents institution (nor Snyder or Frank Martin...), but its the 'vast majority' of KStutter FANS I dislike as much as Mizzoo idiots. I'll offer a soda straw to any purple fan that wants to get busy with a rotten egg.

0

Ralster Jayhawk 1 year, 8 months ago

How laughable! Frank left, and Synder's days are soon to end(&that classy player Pullen long gone)...it will be Manlesshattan for sure. Nothing but purple pussies left, and now trying to post their usual cow sch!tt here! Look, I had a best friend go to KState's excellent vet school, and I definitely respect Snyder's achievements, & understand there's a reason for that stadium to be named after him...but its the KState fans (many, not all) that are almost as bad as MizzooCreature/fans. Our main rivals are Mizzoo, Duke, Kentucky, UNC, etc...but the little bro's down the road want to get some crosshairs on themselves? So be it. llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll> Regarding that other arena in Manlesshattan: We will keep our tradition there as well: Sherrontagon-o-gloom, Tyshawntagon, Elijahgon...etc...etc...etc...And you purple idiots would be KStoopid enough (what else?) to discount Charlie Weis and his NFL staff? Its ok to beat us on the gridiron, but whats the overall football record? Basketball record? So dont come KStuttering (what else is new?) here until you have a reason. And I guarantee you Bruce Weber (only good at holding Self's jock, since Weber did nothing for years with his own recruits) will give you no reason to even get your hopes up. SO, go on, git! Yer camo tape on the side of yer old Ford is peelin' & needs fixin', as does the Ford (daily)! llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll> And the day (soon) that Weis kicks your purple butts off the gridiron is the day your world ends, and you know it. Better make plans now, start learning the names of Sooner and Longhorn underclassmen, so that you can have someone to root for! Purple pussies. Hahahahahaha!

0

Keith Hummel 1 year, 8 months ago

Didn't "hate" KSU when I started this article, but I'm starting to after reading these comments. A few more idiotic postings by squawkhawk and the other K-State trolls and I'll be there. Enjoy it while you can, hayseeds. Your day of reckoning is near.

0

squawkhawk 1 year, 8 months ago

I've read all the comments above and just have to shake my head over how stupid many of our fans come across. Our fans talk about KSU like it is an inferior school when in reality it is not. They have strong academic programs and boast a lot of national scholarship recipients year-in and year-out. Their enrollment is growing and ours is declining...what is that all about? The recent acquisition of NBAF in Manhattan will help them elevate their research efforts and status in the academic community and continue to help them grow.

Regarding sports, how can any single KU fan talk about KSU as being our "little brother" when they have dominated us in just about every sport, other than BB, for the past 5 years? To me this simply sounds like sour grapes and arrogance. And we wonder why KSU fans seem to hate us more than them? Perhaps we should look inward before casting outward.

1

manginorh00lz 1 year, 8 months ago

I think Oklahoma should be our new hated rival. God I hate those people.

1

texashawk10 1 year, 8 months ago

There's this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A-05w...

and this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7P8rQ...

Unfortunately the other Ecokat video has been made private which sucks because now we can't make fun of it.

1

danmoore 1 year, 8 months ago

I’m buying it! Half the equation for a good rivalry is already in place. They despise us so all we need to do is reciprocate. I may not hate K-State at the moment but I can learn to loathe and detest them if you give me a chance.

0

jhox 1 year, 8 months ago

Another reason to hate K-State. They were the purple albatross around our neck that nearly cost us entry into another BCS conference when it looked like the Big 12 was going to fold. Our state leaders didn't want the schools broken up, and it nearly cost us dearly.

I've not been to a game at MU in quite a few years, but I've been to a couple of football games when we played in Manhatten recently, and I was treated like crap. Had one young drunk kid do his best to start a fight, because I was wearing a KU shirt. Luckily his girlfriend pulled him away. He would have been an easy mark...so drunk he could hardly stand up. Fortunately, we beat them that day. He wanted to take his drunken frustrations out on someone. He wasn't the only one who said inappropriate things to me as I left the stadium that day. I should point out that I was minding my own business, not saying a thing.

I've seen our fans act that way toward Missery fans before, so I know it goes on at our place as well, but I've always looked at KSU as the poor step sister and have reserved my real hatred for that Benedict Arnold school. But no more...

1

CWGOKU 1 year, 8 months ago

The only thing I don't like about K-State is Kevin Keitzman. What a joke

0

Fototherapist 1 year, 8 months ago

K-state fans want the rivalry more than KU fans. Over the past few years, I've seen K-state fans become increasingly hateful, rude, and just plain stupid with their love for all things purple. It's the only thing they have to hang their hat on, and it just burns them up to know their basketball program has been and always will be inferior to KU's. I thought it was hilarious when they posted that Debate national championship banner on I-70. Classic.

1

Hieronymous2012 1 year, 8 months ago

Regarding a rivalry with K-State, these intra-state rivalries are something between tiresome and pathetic. Even though having been raised within 15 miles of Manhattan, I myself can work up no interest and mostly wish the boring K-State fans would get some sort of life. It would be far better if the two schools were in different conferences, but alas that is not to be. The biggest concern I had with the recent conference re-alignment talks was the notion that K. U. and K-State were some how permanently linked together. Imagine, the two schools wandering off into oblivion hand in hand, bucolic Bobbsey Twins. How depressing.

1

oldalum 1 year, 8 months ago

I have too many great friends who went to K-State to hate them. We jab at each other, but none of us ever goes over the line to cause hard feelings. I guess I always considered it a friendly competition. It didn't make me want to win any less, but I didn't foam at the mouth. With MU, not so much.

1

machinegun 1 year, 8 months ago

Keep this in mind. When we played Missouri, K-State fans cheered for Missouri with very few exceptions. When we played K-State, the Missouri fans cheered for K-State.

The last time we were competitive against K-State it was really fun partly because of Coach Mangino's former ties to K-State. Now that we have Coach Charlie Weis and his dynamic pro-style offense, we will rekindle the rivalry and push Coach Snyder right back into retirement.

0

milwaukeeJAYHAWK 1 year, 8 months ago

I think the KU-KSU rivalry will grow, but it's hard to hate K-State the way we hated MU. The K-State fanbase is largely a class group. I grew up among many K-Staters in central KS, and they are a far cry from the MU fanbase, which has a wayyyy higher proportion of methed-out confederate flag waving morons.

Guess MU fits right in with the Confederacy. Good riddance.

Bring on K-State!

2

KUfanInFlorida 1 year, 8 months ago

I don't know I think Missouri was more of a rivalry than K-state. I wish they could schedule a border war game as a non conference schedule.

0

Travis Shinkle 1 year, 8 months ago

I think our "most hated rival" (to borrow a term from the University of Iowa crowd) should be Iowa State. I mean, really, who likes cyclones?!? NO ONE, especially ones who has a quasi-cardinal as it's mascot!

Like others, I can't hate Bill Snyder (but that stupid mascot of theirs is another story) for what he has done which includes forcing KU to WANT to compete on the football field. Back in the "good ol' days" when both KU and K-State sucked at football, nobody cared. Now, because the Kitty Kats are going to bowl games and are ranked, KU is spending the money and wanting to be more than a basketball school.

Also, like many others have said: we should never play that dump school in Columbia, Missouri ever again. Period. By the way, isn't it great to see Colorado back on our basketball schedule?!?

0

notjustbread 1 year, 8 months ago

"This could very well become a Texas-Oklahoma rivalry, so that’s why we get excited about it.” was said by some Wildcat showing they have no clue about the national scale rivalries. The revenue from the OU TX game each year is more than K-state makes in a season of games.

0

Jeremy Bolinger 1 year, 8 months ago

Never truly hated KSU, but I've always hated their fan base. With the exception of Missouri, I can't think of a dumber fan base. I can't bring it in me I hate Bill Snyder though. I've tried and tried.

2

Bradly Moore 1 year, 8 months ago

You people have to stop calling them "brothers". I live in western Kansas, and those sheep molesters hate KU more than anything. I can't see how anyone could EVER root for them. If they are playing Missoura, I am sorry, I root for the tiggers. The belt buckles are the worst fans I have ever seen. Pleas turn all of your hate toward the kitties.

1

Robert Brock 1 year, 8 months ago

I guess the question is, "will Bill Snyder live long enough to see a K-State/KU rivalry?"

0

troutsee 1 year, 8 months ago

We should never play MU again unless we are forced to do so via a bowl committment.

1

jhox 1 year, 8 months ago

The University of Missery is dead to me so, no question about it, my dislike will now be focused mostly on K State. It's time to step it up in football and wipe that smug look off of Snyder's face..

0

Robert Brown 1 year, 8 months ago

The juvenile comments amaze me. Of course, for this rivalry to intensify, KU needs to be more competitive. Anyone under the age of 30 has witnessed K-State domination in football. I agree with Matt's statement that the rivalry is like brothers competing. You always want to beat your brother, but more often than not, want your brother to well against other opponents. If K-State is playing Texas or OU or playing in a bowl, I cheer for them while I never cheered for MU. I would imagine if many people here would say that K-State is their second favorite conference team.

3

Terran Woolley 1 year, 8 months ago

My answer to this question in one word? NO.

0

Michael Pannacciulli 1 year, 8 months ago

Summer doldrums...

Can't wait for kickoff of the new season

0

Jason Keller 1 year, 8 months ago

Kansas State, home of the 230 pound brunette and bar fights between drunk cowboys and soldiers.

1

april28 1 year, 8 months ago

It isn't much of a rivalry when the Purple Plague destroys us for basically twenty years straight. We have no more excuses now that our real rival rejoined Dixie. We better start bringin' it.

0

Jack Brooks 1 year, 8 months ago

This article just shows how K-Staters are screaming for KU's undivided attention. We should claim TCU or WVU as our new top rival just to piss Kansas State fan off.

3

ahpersecoachingexperience 1 year, 8 months ago

Is it true that the NCAA considered putting Turner Gill in charge of football operations at Penn State as a punishment?

4

Saguaro_Jayhawk 1 year, 8 months ago

I'm not sure which other conference team could be the primary rival of Kansas. Although KSU has recently focused on Iowa State especially for football, KSU seems to be the logical one for Kansas.

When I was a student, the KSU-Kansas rivalry was fun, mainly a time for the 2 fan bases to party before and after the games. But I never felt it had the sense of urgency like the moo games did. The Jayhawks went 4-0 vs the kittens then, so that likely dulled any edge to it.

0

madamhawk 1 year, 8 months ago

"Does that mean it will get uglier?". The only thing getting uglier is the heffers visiting the 4H barns in Manhattan.

Sorry...that was mean. I shouldn't take my frustration for the Royals losing AGAIN out on the little brothers of the west. I'm following nuleaf's advice and not watching anymore!

2

Commenting has been disabled for this item.