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Kansas running back Tony Pierson is run down by the Oklahoma defense during the third quarter on Saturday, Oct. 15, 2011 at Kivisto Field.
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Although he gave no official comment, it’s a safe bet that Kansas University football coach Charlie Weis was neither surprised nor disappointed when he saw the results of the Big 12 preseason media poll, released Thursday.
Not only were Weis’ Jayhawks picked to finish dead last in the league for a second consecutive season, but they were placed at the bottom emphatically. KU, which finished winless in Big 12 play a season ago, finished with 46 points in the voting. Ninth-place Texas Tech, which won in Lawrence last season, finished with 116, and eighth-place Iowa State received 121.
Although the preseason poll positioned his new team in a spot many consider to be insulting, Weis took the job at Kansas knowing what he was stepping into. He said as much at his introductory news conference in December, going as far as to say he would not have minded if KU had gone winless overall in 2011 so the bar would be set even lower.
But whether expectations are high, low or somewhere in the middle, Weis is the kind of coach who deals in reality, and the media’s vote reflected the reality for KU.
“It isn’t like everyone’s loading up all their marbles to play Kansas right now,” Weis said during a recent evaluation of the upcoming schedule. “It isn’t like they’re saying, ‘Oh, let’s see, we’ve got Kansas on the schedule, that’s our big game.’ So you have an opportunity when you’re in that role for people to sit there and say, ‘Well, we got Kansas before we get into the real games.’”
Therein lies the reason Weis most likely was not upset about being picked to finish 10th. While some will sit and stare at KU’s spot in the rankings and see a team at the bottom, Weis chooses to look at it as a team with nowhere to go but up.
“From our standpoint, that gives you an advantage,” he said. “It gives you an advantage every week. Because every week you have an opportunity to go beat one of those guys. Every week.”
As for the rest of the poll, perennial power Oklahoma was tapped as the heavy favorite to win the league. The Sooners, who return standout quarterback Landry Jones, received 396 points and 32 first-place votes. Big 12 newcomer West Virginia, which features the league’s preseason pick for offensive player of the year, quarterback Geno Smith, came in second with 339 points and seven first-place votes.
Texas (291) was picked third, followed by defending Big 12 champion Oklahoma State (267) fourth, fellow Big 12 newcomer TCU (260) fifth and last year’s surprise of the conference, Kansas State (257), sixth.
TCU and K-State each received one first-place vote.
The bottom of the barrel began with Baylor (162) in seventh, followed by Iowa State, Texas Tech and Kansas.
Here are some more facts about this year’s vote:
- Although Kansas State was ranked well below where it finished the 2011 season, the Wildcats actually were given more credit by the Big 12 media this preseason than last. KSU was picked to finish eighth in the 2011 preseason poll.
- West Virginia and TCU will begin their inaugural season of Big 12 competition after joining the league on July 1. Both won their previous conference titles last year, with WVU winning the Big East and TCU winning the Mountain West for the third consecutive season.
- Oklahoma State claimed its first Big 12 title in 2011 during the Big 12’s first season of round-robin play.
- Oklahoma leads the Big 12 with seven Conference championships (2000, ’02, ’04, ’06, ’07, ’08, ’10).
- The last time KU was not picked to finish last in the league came in 2010, when the Big 12 still had 12 teams and was separated into two divisions. The Jayhawks were picked fourth in the North that season.
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Comments
ahpersecoachingexperience 10 months ago
Looks like I need to bust out the 3rd Eye Blind CD for another year of jayhawk football.
chamberlain 10 months ago
Looks like I need to bust out a kilo of Columbian bam-bam to make this year any fun.
RCJ 10 months ago
Hit me up when you do please!!!! I'll tell ya'll what will be fun this year, watching tony pierson get out into the open field. I would put my hard earned money there isn't a player in the nation that can run him down.
JayHawkFanToo 10 months ago
"Columbian bam-bam" What is that, crack from Columbia, MO?
nwhawk 10 months ago
Matt - OU picked up 396 points, not 339.
bradh 10 months ago
Wondered how OU was the overwhelming favorite if they had the same 339 points as WV. Thanks.
tmyoung 10 months ago
Corrections are nice. But is there a reason you feel the need o do so publicly. Matt has an email. Correcting someone in the comments just makes you look like a douche bag.
dagger108 10 months ago
It's just easier here. It's not like he's calling him out as an idiot or anything like that. People make mistakes. Okay, move along now.
yates33333 10 months ago
who put you in charge of protocol? your daddy (or grandmama) should have slapped your little a s s.
pessimisticjayhawkfan 10 months ago
HIRE GILL BACK
ralster 10 months ago
Poor troll. Every post is to try to rile up ku fans. How transparent. How about telling us who your "real" school or team is? Yeah, got any balls to do that? Or too chicken? Hahahahahaha!
notabandwagonfan 10 months ago
Nowhere to go but up. I find it funny that despite the return of a lot of good players, KSU still gets no respect. 6th? Seems way too low. I think they belong in the 3-5 range. Certainly ahead of Texas at 3. Just my 2 cents.
NebraskaJayhawk 10 months ago
Agreed.
JHWKDW 10 months ago
And this is shocking?Its a rebuilding year.Who didn't know we come in last?All we are doing this year is rebuilding with Weis.
NebraskaJayhawk 10 months ago
We aren't rebuilding. We're building. Good point though.
IlBastardo 10 months ago
People often lament the exorbitant amounts of money politicians spend to tarnish the name of their opponents. I invite anyone in this situation to look at the vocal minority of KU football fans who were snared by the Perkins smear campaign into a self-perpetuating fantasy which grows more outlandish by the day. At first, I suspected these were the disgruntled whimpers of Parking Department lackeys who had been emasculated by coach Mangino. This was somewhat understandable, as the man is no saint. However, the accusations have since degenerated into a lunacy of rabid, blatant denial. To label Mangino's tenure, in which records were broken left and right by team and coach, as being "below average", demonstrates a puzzling lack of understanding of the term. To attribute the legitimization of a program perennially mired in failure to a CFL quarterback is desperately idealistic. To point to season W-L records which only seem unsatisfactory from the more successful context achieved during Mangino's tenure is troublingly short-sighted. To then describe a four-win season for Coach Weis as successful while maligning Coach Mangino for similar initial results bares the confused, irrational state of these fans for all to see, and changes what would be anger at disrespectful, irreverant behavior to the solemn pity reserved for those whose naivety and insecurity will forever subject them to manipulation in all aspects of life.
Abbiate pieta',signori. Abbiate pieta'.
HouTexHawk 10 months ago
I really don't understand two thirds of your post. I don't think anyone is saying Mangino's tenure was a failure. To the contrary, I think more people give him too much credit and believe he made KU into a national power based solely on one season where all the stars aligned. How many winning conference records did he have in the other seven seasons he coached besides 2007? Answer: none. His best was 4-4. He took us from 11 th or 12 th best to 6th or 7th which anyone would take today giving where the program is.
IlBastardo 10 months ago
Thanks for at least having the decency to admit you weren't able to understand the post. I think the article above gives us good perspective on the position Mangino was in when he inherited the team. I haven't heard anyone claim we were a national power under Mangino (please tell me what crowd you're referring to that is over-complimentary of Mangino for a change), and neither do I. That would have been as unrealistic an expectation of Mangino as it is with Weis. You will see a lot of people in these days referring to a near .500 record for Weis as a lofty goal, because with a program in shambles as KU was before Mangino and before Weis, immediate success is impossible. You say as much in your last sentence. Mangino was given all of his coaching awards with that understanding. However, the program was showing steady growth and putting up numbers which were unprecedented in its history. What more could a KU football fan ask for?
chiefs386 10 months ago
It peaked in 2007. 2008 was not bad, 8-5 including bowl win. 2009 he won 5 games. So stating that it was showing steady growth is inaccurate.
IlBastardo 10 months ago
Listen. I've been down this road and your tired arguments aren't new to me. In the climate Perkins created in the program to oust Mangino, the fact that he was still able to win even five games demonstrates his quality since Gill couldn't do that even with the blessings of the Godfather.
HouTexHawk 10 months ago
Was the program really making steady improvement or was it beginning to decline? Even with Mangino coming back after Reesing and Meier left, I doubt you would have seen a winning record. We really do not know the answer to that question. I think we know that the program would not have reached the abyss it reached under Gill, but I imagine the program would one of the bottom three in the Big 12 as opposed to the bottom.
IlBastardo 10 months ago
The realm of speculation is where I draw the line. Mangino's concrete results speak for themselves if one isn't looking for reasons to discredit them.
HouTexHawk 10 months ago
What concrete results? One winning conference record in 8 years? That's setting the bar real high.
IlBastardo 10 months ago
Have compassion, ladies and gentleman. There are malevolent forces greater than this man at work behind the scenes. Mark Mangino: First KU coach with a winning career record since 1966, led the team to 19 consecutive weeks ranked by the major polls and our first appearance in the polls since 96, twenty consecutive wins for the first time in a two year period for the first time in school history, home attendance records each season for 2004-2008, matched our highest ranking in history at #2, produced the top three total offense seasons, the top two passing seasons, and two of the top three scoring seasons in school history, and equaled in his tenure the number of bowl victories achieved in the rest of our prior history. Also the only coach in NCAA history to win both the top assistant coach award and all major coach of the year awards. We aren't going by UT football standards here, Tex. Everything is relative and if you're going to mock that, I suggest you get on the basketball articles or remove "Hawk" from the end of your name.
MartyrMangino 10 months ago
Praise Him.
HouTexHawk 10 months ago
Good discussion. My belief is the Mangino took us from awful to mediocre which to me is what 6-6 and 7-5 records are when you play four easy non-conference opponents. Today mediocre looks pretty good.
IlBastardo 10 months ago
Whatever terms are used to define what happened under Mangino, I think it constituted improvement, and unusual improvement for the KU football program at that. Few seem to expect a program to spring immediately to the top of football's Olympus. Improvement is an unbelievably painstaking process when starting from zero, particularly in football where the institution of the BCS seems geared to perpetuate the traditional aristocracy. I think the statistics mentioned above prove to the greatest extent possible that Mangino was doing some pretty unprecedented things with our humble program.
flyingfinn 10 months ago
cha ching +100
NebraskaJayhawk 10 months ago
Totally agree with your post. Didn't have a problem reading it, but people don't really talk like that in most circles. And if you're in one of those circles where they do...well, I feel sorry for you. You probably raise your pinky when you drink a glass of wine.
Kansas needs to win now....a 3 to 4 win season won't suffice this year. I am not going to dismiss Weis after one season if that does happen, but it's critical from a recruiting standpoint that Kansas has a 5 to 6 win season.
IlBastardo 10 months ago
You can attend one of my soirees anytime you like, NebraskaJayhawk. You're a true fan.
Table_Rock_Jayhawk 10 months ago
Dude - this team won't win more than 4 games. Weis needs more time to get a D-line in here.
CaliHawk33 10 months ago
Oh not this argument again, tablerj
GoHawkYourself 10 months ago
TL;DR Weis and Mangino should be held to the same standard of W-L record and a coaches success should be more than just W-L record.
Sounding smart != being smart
JJHAWK 10 months ago
I boldy predict (and even guarantee) that Coach Weis and this years Jayhawk football team will NOT underperform Big 12 league expectations. RCJH
texashawk10 10 months ago
They didn't under-perform last year either based on preseason predictions.
1977kufan 10 months ago
I hope that the Big 12 football media will provide a post-season critique of their pre-season "guesses". That might be a semi-interesting article compared to their space-occupying (in both print and electronic media) speculations at this time of the college football season. Regardless of whether these pre-season polls are from any league or any school, they should be looked at in a very positive light. That is, they are great somnifacients. Even after a nice 8 hour sleep, one can read these articles and still fall immediately back to sleep (even in a sitting position)!
Brock 10 months ago
I am not concerned where KU is ranked. Since the Hawks are crawling out of a huge hole, the most important thing, to me, is that they start looking like a football team. Competent. Last year's team looked like a Chinese Firedrill.
MartyrMangino 10 months ago
“Athletics may be the front porch of an institution like KU, but the libraries are the foundation. I strongly believe you can judge the greatness of a university by the success of its libraries.” – Mark Mangino
AtlJaybird 10 months ago
May I make a suggestion? Point your browser at GoDaddy.com, watch a couple of Danica Patrick videos, register the domain name "ILoveMarkMagino.com" (it's available, I checked), build a web site dedicated to all things Mangino, and invite all your friends to visit. Then you and your fellow Manginites can proceed with your adulation without fear of harrassment from us "KU" fans. Who knows, maybe the big guy himself will visit.
Look, all kidding aside, I personally like Mark Mangino, and I think we all owe him a huge debt of gratitude for helping make KU Football relevant. He achieved things at our University that I never dreamed possible. If you look at his tweets it's clear he is still very much a Jayhawk fan. That says a lot about him, I think, particularly given the way he was treated by Lew. I personally hope he comes back some Saturday (with members of the Orange Bowl team) and allows the fans to express their thanks for what he accomplished. But he's no longer our head coach, he's not coming back, and any lamenting of what could-a, should-a, would-a been is simply pointless.
ClemsonDandy 10 months ago
You must not be from Atlanta, because the folks I know from there aren't into husky, dominatrix women like Danica Patrick, despite our affinity for NASCAR.
AtlJaybird 10 months ago
No, I'm not a Danica Patrick fan, but your right about one thing. Shockingly, I'm originally from Kansas, not Georgia.
ralster 10 months ago
Nothing wrong with Danica Patrick. At all. She is as competetive as a driver can be, and damn easy on the eyes. She's a spitfire persona.
AtlJaybird 10 months ago
She's very talented and very attractive, no doubt, and as you say - she's a spitfire. I've just grown tired of her complaining. A little less whining would do her well. I'm also not convinced she is aggressive enough to really do well in NASCAR. I watched her put her car on the pole many times in the IRL, only to finish poorly because she drove too conservatively.
troutsee 10 months ago
There are a lot of "ifs" concerning every football team going into a season, and even moreso for a team that is used to losing and that has been totally embarrassed in some games in the past season. However, there is reason to hope this season, starting with a veteran coaching staff that has been there and done that. So, if our transfers live up to their billing and if our coaches are able to motivate and coach up, who knows. I for one am not going to write this team off before they have played a game. At this point, the South Dakota State game is the biggest game of the season. However, I just have a feeling that this team is going to surprise some folks, especially the so-called pundits of the media.
notabandwagonfan 10 months ago
All I expect from Charlie Weis and co. are points to be scored, and a respectable showing on a weekly basis. Until a football coach at KU can recruit, develope, and win on a consistant basis year in and year out, I won't get my expectations up too high. Hell, Weis himself said he has a plan of being here for 5 years....... Not very encouraging if you ask me.
notabandwagonfan 10 months ago
On a side note, some of you should go back and read what was said when Gill was hired. We have some really intelligent, and some really dumb posters who post here.
jhawkrulz 10 months ago
So I saw OU with 32, 7 for WVU, 1 for KSU, and 1 for TCU. Making 41 votes. Does that really mean that we received 5 people that didn't pick us last? Or were not all of the votes accounted for?
I kind of agree with the philosophy, because I use it in Basketball (just the opposite). In Basketball you can't pick KU anywhere except first until someone beats us. And in football you can't pick us anywhere except last until we beat someone. It's painful, but true.
OakvilleJHawk 10 months ago
Well, no double digit whole numbers except 23 and 46 divide evenly into 46, and assuming a 10 best to 1 worst evaluation scale, unless there were 46 voters who all picked us at the bottom....SOMEBODY DID NOT VOTE US LAST!!!!!!!!!
Now I call that progress!!
texashawk10 10 months ago
There were 5 somebodies who didn't pick KU last.
JayDogger 10 months ago
Or maybe someone picked us 5th???
tmyoung 10 months ago
Yes, Perkins running Mangino out of town was a huge mistake. But let's not pretend Mangino handed over a quality football team to Gill. his last season ended on a very Gill-like losing streak. I think Perkins deserves some blame for the collapse.
But the reason Perkins wanted Mangino out was that Mangino was a jerk to donors. Perkins wanted a guy in that would attract money. Gill seemed like that guy, and was considered a good get for Kansas when he came here. Turns out, he was horrible.
With Weis, Kansas football has finally moved on from the idiocy of Perkins and the Mangino tenure. Weis is not going to be judged by how much anyone thought of Mangino except by a precious few whiners.
The most exciting part of this season is that it does feel like a new beginning when the team really needs it. It felt forced under Gill.
I'm excited because it feels like a team ready to outperform. It feels like the perfect collection of coaches and new talent. I don't expect anyone to buy into Weis other than his players and loyal fans. Everyone else is going to wait and see.
OakvilleJHawk 10 months ago
I posted this to Matt a couple of days ago and I am probably a lone Jayhawk on an island of delusion but I thnk that the Hawks may actually have a chance at 6-6.
If Charlie can get the guys to cut down the turnovers, increase time of possession, avoid as many dumb plays as possible and keep fighting, based on the results of the previous three seasons, we may sneak up on some people.
Would I bet the mortgage on it???....heck no!!
Would I be shocked if it happened???.....well, yes..but maybe not totally!!!
Feel free to bash me, but I'd rather face reality when it becomes real!!
dagger108 10 months ago
I'm with you Oak. I'm hoping for the Pinstripe bowl at 6-6.
Confession - I also was hoping Gill was going to bring some of the husker program here. Oooops.
texashawk10 10 months ago
I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities because I've pointed out on several articles over the past few months that KU wasn't very far off of 6-6 last season even with Gill as a coach. A 21-0 lead on Texas Tech, chances to win late against Baylor and Iowa St., and a defensive performance that gave KU a chance to beat Missouri had the offense been able to do anything that day. The defense forced multiple turnovers in 5 of the last 7 games which was how Oklahoma St. and Baylor's defenses made a living last year despite both being outside the top 100 in total defense. KU's offense won't be on par with those two from last year, but it should be good enough to move the ball against all but the elite defenses in the country this year and that should keep KU competitive and with some lucky breaks, steal a game or two KU shouldn't win which is what it'll take for KU to reach a bowl game this year.
AtlJaybird 10 months ago
I hope your right, and it makes logical sense, but we don't know how much we were being over-looked last year. Did we really get the "A" game from TT, ISU, and Baylor? What are the chances of those same teams looking past us this year? My suspicion is we will start off the season like gang-busters, and then everyone in the Big-12 will take notice, and then we won't be able to sneak up on anyone. If that happens those conference games suddenly get a lot harder to win. Win or lose, if we are competitive this year, I won't care too much what our final record is. Anything's possible, of course, especially with a new and improved coaching staff and a large percentage of our team being new. It's gonna be fun to watch, that's for sure.
KemDooKU 10 months ago
You heard it hear first - KU will finish sixth in the Big 12 standing this year and third next year. In three years when you talk about KU winning a title - people will ask if your talking about Football or Basketball. Here is another brownie to chew on - were four years away from winning the National title in both Football and Basketball.
notabandwagonfan 10 months ago
Are you high?
OakvilleJHawk 10 months ago
Whatever you had for breakfast, I'll take a bite of as well.
oldalum 10 months ago
Wow! Now that's confidence. I can't say I agree with you, but I like your attitude.
jgkojak 10 months ago
I think we'll win 2 conf games this year against 2 of those bottom teams.
KemDooKU 10 months ago
Not High -
Two most important things that a football team must have to be really good.
Great QB - Crist
Great coaches - Weis, Campo
notabandwagonfan 10 months ago
If Christ was so great, why isn't he in the league yet? Better yet, why isn't he still at Notre Shame? I wouldn't anoint Weis as being great either.
KGphoto 10 months ago
You should probably read more about Crist before coming to conclusions. There are very good reasons he is not in the NFL yet.
First he sat behind Clausen as a freshman and sophomore. Clausen was hot and there was no reason to shove Crist in, or even hint at a QB controversy. Weis had Clausen in Heisman conversations.
Second he got injured twice. An ACL, and when he returned he ruptured his patella.
Third he didn't fit Kelly's system. Crist was Weis' QB for Weis' system. Kelly runs a spread. There is a learning curve and an adjustment period that Kelly wasn't willing to wait on.
Weis is going to have Crist snapping off chunks of yardage this year, in his system. Weis has yet to fail with a QB. He did it with Tom Brady, Brady Quinn, Jimmy Clausen, Matt Cassel and would've done it with Crist already, had he not been fired.
Brantley at Florida was a bust long before Weis got there. The guy stunk out loud.
Crist being great is probably the surest bet on the season.
AtlJaybird 10 months ago
I think we'll be hugely improved this season, and will likely win all 3 non-conference match-up's. Ironically, I think that success will make it very difficult to win any of the conference games because no one will take us lightly. My prediction would be 4 wins total, with one of those against a conference foe. While I can imagine us winning 6, it seems highly unlikely. I do think we will be very competitive, however, and I expect to see several players make All Big-12.
HouTexHawk 10 months ago
I think your assessment is pretty good. I think we could pull out two conference wins, but winning at NIU might be pretty tough. I am not sure why we scheduled at game there. Rice can also be tough. They won at Purdue last year. I am looking forward to KU playing Rice in Houston next year!
AtlJaybird 10 months ago
Yea - I struggled with how to pick that NIU game. I think they are a lot better than most people realize. Being the homer I am I chose KU, but realistically I think it's a bit of a toss-up. I also think we have a shot at surprising TCU simply because it will be early in the season, it will be at home, it will be our third game but their second, our offense should be starting to gell, and I think Memorial Stadium will be Rockin. If by some miracle we were to go 4-0 to start the season we would instantly be considered the most dangerous team in the Big-12, and we would get everyone's best shot from that point forward.
HouTexHawk 10 months ago
I have the same feeling about the TCU game. Certainly, the one conference game that everyone points to as a possible win is the home game with ISU. Baylor and Tech are possibilities, Tech should be better and had a good QB. Baylor is an unknown. WV, OU, UT, OSU all seem to be at another level, as is probably K-State.
cshjhawk 10 months ago
More nights at the office for Coach. Get him a murphy bed!
CaliHawk33 10 months ago
And some company, Perhaps a tri-delt? Hey his wife is in FL afterall...
Crusty 10 months ago
BS !! The Jay Hawks will be much stronger on defense this year and there will be no more running up the score on the Hawks like last year. In fact the Hawks will be lighting up the score board this time around. My prediction is 8-4 over all & 9-4 with a bowl win. There will be wins over KST, Iowa St, the three non conference games, Texas, TT, and OSU !!!
Chris1955 10 months ago
If that happens, and I hope it does, I'll be ready to drink any and all Kool Aid! I would also think about contributing to a fund dedicated to building a Charlie Weiss statue in front of the stadium.
okiedave 10 months ago
The Tulsa World sports writers maintain that the longer Charlie Weis goes without Tom Brady and the Patriots, the more people will realize he should never have left the Patriots. They anticipate Weis will have very little success at KU. Would love for Weis to prove them wrong.
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