Tuesday, January 31, 2012

Bill Self worried about energy

Coach says KU flat in past two outings


Kansas University basketball coach Bill Self spoke with his players in a Monday afternoon film session about a trend that needs to stop.

“We haven’t been as energized the last two games. We’ve played flat,” Self said of Wednesday’s 64-54 home victory over Texas A&M and Saturday’s 72-64 loss at Iowa State.

“It’s not about playing hard. I’m talking about just being enthusiastic, energetic. When we do that, we’re pretty good. When we are not (energized), we don’t appear to be near as athletic and don’t seem to make plays that players make when games are tight. When you are energized, it covers up for a lot of mistakes. When you are not energized, then execution and discipline — all those things become more a factor. Against Iowa State the last five minutes, we didn’t get stops. The majority of those times it all came with under seven seconds on the shot clock. A guy reaches, a guy loses sight of his man, a guy doesn’t block out. All these things can be avoided if we are a little more in-tune.”

He said on his weekly Hawk Talk radio show that energy also shows up in rebounding totals. ISU outrebounded KU, 36-23. KU has been outboarded in three of the past five games.

Offensive rebounding has been especially poor.

“Travis (Releford) didn’t get any rebounds. Conner (Teahan) is not getting any rebounds when he’s at the 3 (spot). Thomas (Robinson) isn’t getting any rebounds. Jeff (Withey) didn’t get many offensive rebounds. Let’s call it like it is. It’s not one or two guys, it’s a lot,” Self said. “That’s where I think the energy stuff comes in. A shooter always assumes every shot is going to go in, but a rebounder should always assume they are going to miss. That’s not how we have played at all. Our second and third effort on the glass on both ends was extremely poor. We need to do a much better job. It’s not just the guards, it’s our bigs, too.”

Sore wrist: Self revealed on the radio show that Releford sprained his left, non-shooting wrist a couple weeks ago. “He’s fine,” Self said.

Tharpe update: A caller asked Self about freshman point guard Naadir Tharpe’s limited playing time.

“I know some people think maybe if you give him more of an opportunity he can play better, but you can’t check in and four seconds later a guy takes the ball and goes and makes a layup,” Self said. “That’s happened two games in a row. That right there is something where he has to value the ball a little bit more. He’s a good player. I just think having Elijah (Johnson) in there as backup is probably better right now than having Naadir in there.”

Of Tharpe, Self added: “We desperately would like to have another guard be able to play so he’s probably not to the point I think he’s ready. That’s not being negative toward him. He’s young. He’s a freshman. He has not come around probably at the rate I thought he would the way the season started.”

As far as future minutes for Tharpe and the current bench players, Self noted: “It remains to be seen because right now if you look at our team, if you are on the bench, you have a great opportunity to get minutes because we want to be able to play our bench more. If you are not able to do it this year, you will have to really step up to the plate because we will not be in a situation like this where we do not have depth again, at least I hope not. All the guys who are probably not playing as much as they’d like, it’ll be harder for them to play next year because we are going to recruit some cats that will be competitive, and whoever plays the best in practice, plays. That’s how it’s going to be. I don’t really know how our bench fits in next year because I want to wait and see how they compete against guys we’ve recruited.”

Only seniors speak on Senior Night: Self was asked if he’d allow junior Thomas Robinson to give a speech on Senior Night this season (March 3 vs. Texas), since Robinson assuredly will be turning pro after his junior campaign.

“I’ve actually thought about that, but I don’t think so,” Self said. “I love Thomas. I love Cole (Aldrich, who stayed three years). I loved all those kids that left early, but Senior Night is about seniors. It’s not about the sophomores and juniors. As much as I like Thomas and as much as I think that he would benefit and everybody would benefit hearing from him in that situation, he can do it in a different forum I hope than that (perhaps at postseason banquet). I tossed that around in my mind. I still think at the end of the day there’s something special about those kids that stay four years and it’s their night. We’re definitely going to make them feel that way.”

Self helped ref: A high-placed source who witnessed the court-storming aftermath of Saturday’s KU-Iowa State game at Hilton Coliseum in Ames on Monday praised Self. Self joined ISU university police and ISU officials in assisting Big 12 ref Darron George, who cut his hand and also chipped a bone in his knuckle after getting run into by fans.

“KU coach Self and the KU players stopped to help George when they saw him kneeling in a hallway and bleeding profusely. Self kept people from running into George and called for the KU doctor to make sure somebody was coming over to assist,” the source, who did not wish to be identified, told the Journal-World.

“The medical staff of Iowa State shuffled George into the training facility to care for him, but Self was right there until the ref was taken care of,” the source added. “After losing a game and having the stress of making sure his kids got off of the floor safely ... the fact that he set all of that aside to offer help says a lot.”

Self would not comment on his role in helping George, who also declined comment.

Self has spoken about the incident in general.

“That was a dangerous deal,” Self said. “Whenever an official goes down like he went down ... we go back there and he’s laying on the floor and in so much pain he can’t communicate with you and you don’t know what is going on... if it can happen to officials who are escorted off the floor, it can happen to anybody.

“If that had been a last-possession game, I think somebody would have gotten hurt,” added Self, who had all his players stand near the scorer’s table as he instructed the five players on the court to dribble the ball near that area as the clock wound down and the students prepared to storm. “Somebody would have run into players and a player would retaliate or something trying to get through it (mob). Somebody could accidentally push somebody down and that person gets trampled. It’s nobody’s fault, but if you are going to allow it to happen, I think there has to be some security to at least allow a three or four-foot area for guys to walk through the crowd.”


hawkcat 2 years, 2 months ago

Iowa ST. put a real @ss beating on KU and coach Fred out coached Bill right out of the building. Total embarrassment of Self as a coach. Self recruited Tharpe, guess that doesn't surprise us much as he got Morningstar and Reed who were a joke as Tharpe is. Self doesn't know the much when recruiting, must be a brain short.


BCRavenJHawkfan 2 years, 2 months ago

Energy comes from players that are having FUN!

Players have fun when they want to bang inside, and jump above the rim, and scortch the nylon.

Players have fun when they run and run and run until their defenders tongue's are hanging out.

Players have fun when they've got their teammates back.

Players have fun when they do things that DON'T always come easy.

Players that have fun have a twinkle in their eye even when things are down.

In the last three games I have not seen twinkle in any eyes. No smiles like Russ Rob would have every time he went to the free throw line. I guess it's no fun.


jaybate 2 years, 2 months ago

•Everyone is going lonnnnnng today. It does my heart good. Some times I am so proud of this board! I always believed basketball deserved intelligent, in depth analysis, that had both bite and respect, both swagger and substance, both knowledge of tradition and the smarts to go outside the box, competitiveness and cooperation.

•Harrison Barnes is only shooting .38 from trey. He's called a star. Remember Conner and EJ and Trav, you can each exceed that. TT already is. Shoot the rock. UNC= beatable.

•UK is still looooong! Cal has built a team ideal for defending the hi-lo. The more you spread it out, the more you play to their MUA of length. . So: on offense, pack it in, and run once screens, lotsa shoving. Constant contact. UTenn is stretching out and getting killed. On defense, lay way off. UK loves to spread it out. Don't go get them until the put it on the deck; then funnel them to Jeff. Alter. Put 'em on the stripe. Guard the basket, not the movement of the ball. On offend, all cuts are to the basket not at angles to it. KU can beat UK if it takes the short spacing game that Cal's offence and long players give.


KansasComet 2 years, 2 months ago

Maybe Iowa State wanted it more? No need for excuses or blame. We who's up next?


eric1889 2 years, 2 months ago

Check out this response to the we are mizzou rap. Once again we prove our superiority to our neighbors to the east.


PurePierce 2 years, 2 months ago

In Praise of Self:

When we were on the hunt for a new head coach I immediately started praying for Mark Few. I figured if he could win consistently in a school way up in the corner, and one that none seemed to be able to pronounce, just think what he could do at a great basketball university.

All I knew about Bill Self (and I really didn't even know his name) was that I hated playing Illinois and their lineup of future NFL nose tackles.

Maybe Few would have taken us good places, but I am just very very glad that someone who knew much more than I was in charge of the search.


bennybob 2 years, 2 months ago

"right now if you look at our team, if you are on the bench, you have a great opportunity to get minutes because we want to be able to play our bench more. If you are not able to do it this year, you will have to really step up to the plate because we will not be in a situation like this where we do not have depth again, at least I hope not. All the guys who are probably not playing as much as they’d like, it’ll be harder for them to play next year because we are going to recruit some cats that will be competitive, and whoever plays the best in practice, plays. That’s how it’s going to be. I don’t really know how our bench fits in next year because I want to wait and see how they compete against guys we’ve recruited.”

I love this quote! this is direct affirmation by the head coach that guys like me, ICT, and HEM have been correct all along in our opinion that the players brought into the program lately have been desperation roster spot fills and not "diamonds in the rough" so many of the kool aid drinkers have convinced themselves they are.

Bill self himself just essentially said they are going to get replaced with better recruited players.

Rationality trumps fan bias yet again!


Kye Clark 2 years, 2 months ago


I think Tharpe is the only one who has a chance at significant minutes next season and beyond, possibly stepping into the back-up point guard role next year and getting 10-15 min/game. Wesley and Merv are not a part of his long-term plans. Connor is a Senior. KY is probably just a stop-gap and will have only one more year of eligibility after this year. And Tharpe, while salvageable, is not going to be heavily relied upon until his junior year. Self feels no need to play them significant minutes or expend effort developing them because they are not big pieces to the future puzzle.

Now that still doesn't explain why he would not want them more ready for a March push this season. Why he wouldn't, as KULA has said, play the season as "a campaign to the tournament" and maybe even sacrificed a few wins along the way in order to prepare the bench for the madness. My theory on this is that Self took a good long look at the season after BMac, Jamari, & Braeden were declared partial-qualifiers, and determined this team did not have the pieces to make a Final Four push. He decided this year was a bridge year to get him to the pieces he had coming in for future seasons, and instead of preparing a team for the NCAA tournament, he has gone "all in" on another conference championship. Many may not like to hear this, but how many of us were thinking a Final Four trip was likely at the outset? No one. Everybody was just going to be content to "enjoy the ride." Maybe Self saw this as well, and decided this season was going to be about playing his starters as much as possible and hope to keep the string of Big XII titles alive. Maybe he thought he'd give Travis, EJ, & Jeff as many minutes to develop them so they could lead next year's group that won't be short on talent, but will be short on leadership. And maybe he thought to play TRob & Tyshawn as much as possible in order for them to accumulate stats & accolades and increase their draft stock, a side benefit being the higher they're drafted the better it is for recruiting. And if somehow he squeezes another conference championship out of this bunch, after losing what he lost both in terms of last year's players and this season's expected recruits, he will have himself up for coach of the year honors. While I'm fairly certain he doesn't care too much about that, it would be another feather in his cap for recruiting.

It's also possible that Self, like many of us fans, changed their expectations for this season mid-way through the journey, but by then it was too late to alter course. The time for developing the bench has more or less passed. Does it mean that as a fan I believe a Final Four this year is impossible? Or do I think Coach Self believes it? No, but it's like he's said, the margin for error is extremely small.


Kye Clark 2 years, 2 months ago

The starters, the bench, development, and the expectations for this season.

For the second day in a row the role of the bench players is a hot-button topic here on the message boards. As someone else said, props to the caller & LJW for bringing this up and to Self for addressing it. My general opinion is that yes, you give your bench players minutes because while they are not going to be as good as the starters generally (certainly there are the exceptions. Sherron in '08 for example), they need to be developed so they can get better. I believe, as KULA and many do, that you get better through game action. Certainly there is some credibility to the argument that throwing them to the wolves when they aren't ready and letting them make mistake after mistake can damage a young player's confidence. However, I think that risk is minor compared to the risk of letting them rot away on the bench. What is that doing for their confidence? Or the quick hook after one mistake? Surely that erodes away at a player's psyche as well.

My wish for the development of players sitting on the bench has as much to do with preparing the players for expanded roles in future years as it does for the current season. As many have pointed out, EJ, Travis, & Withey were not given the opportunities to develop in games as much as we might have liked, and it has been argued that it has shown in their play & progression this season. Of course in years past there has been an abundance of talent, both in the starting line-up and on the bench, and the debates were due in large part to a disagreement of whether certain players were better than others playing in front of them (Brady & Tyrel being the prime examples).

This is not the case this year. We have five starters head-and-shoulders above the rest. No one is advocating the subs be given minutes at the expense of the starters because we think the bench players are better. The only argument to be made is that the bench players be inserted when needed - foul trouble, injury, fatigue. You can't make it through the grind of a schedule the likes of which we face playing iron-man/"Hoosiers" type basketball. So the question is: why not play the bench more and develop those players? I have a theory, in two parts. The first part I have been saying for awhile and judging from the quotes from Self confirmed my suspicions - nobody on the current, active bench is going to be expected to fill much larger roles next season. Self is getting by this season with what he has, but he knows help is on the way.


Chris Shaw 2 years, 2 months ago

This is one day where I wish I could have been first with the comments!


Chris Shaw 2 years, 2 months ago

HEM! HEM! HEM! This should be music to your ears! Do you hear it? This quote probably made your day!

"As far as future minutes for Tharpe and the current bench players, Self noted: “It remains to be seen because right now if you look at our team, if you are on the bench, you have a great opportunity to get minutes because we want to be able to play our bench more. If you are not able to do it this year, you will have to really step up to the plate because we will not be in a situation like this where we do not have depth again, at least I hope not. All the guys who are probably not playing as much as they’d like, it’ll be harder for them to play next year because we are going to recruit some cats that will be competitive, and whoever plays the best in practice, plays. That’s how it’s going to be. I don’t really know how our bench fits in next year because I want to wait and see how they compete against guys we’ve recruited.”

Now, when we were talking about this on Sunday, I was not trying to attack you about the overall problem being that Self failed to recruit and the bench is where it is because of the failures in the offseason.

I know that is the big issue, but I was trying to be diplomatic at the fact we can't look at those failures because it has nothing to do with the current roster and the thin bench right now. I'm pretty much over the recruiting failures of last summer and I'm trying to figure out how this team can get to an Elite 8 and possible Final 4 because I truly believe it's doable if certain things are focused on and repeated stats from the past don't show up again.

That quote must be music to your ears though, right?!!!!


JayDocMD 2 years, 2 months ago

So who is our starting point guard next year?

I had always assumed Tharpe would grow into that role, but that seems to be in jeopardy.

Not really excited about EJ being the main guy at PG (unless he starts driving instead of settling for 3's.)

This is the no doubt the biggest question looking ahead.


Tony Bandle 2 years, 2 months ago

Questions for the ages:

1] Can Bill Self coach? Well, let's look at Texas which lost less and gained a top 10 recruiting class and still can't win a big game, while Kansas lost 3 NBA players, 3 seniors and three 2012 recruits and are in the top Ten and in first tell me.

2] If you were a betting man, what would you think about the game Wednesday? Not that I would lay a wager..that's illegal...but take the over. Oklahoma pays the price and will get beat by 20.

3] Can Missouri be beaten at home? If the refs call it the refs let them play.....yes. If Missouri gets hot from the if Kansas pounds it inside and gets Radcliffe in trouble...yes.

4] What out of the box proposal would Oakville propose to shake up the team? Start Tharpe, Teahan, Young, Wesley and Lindsay. Sit Taylor, TRob, Withey, Releford and Johnson...simultaneously getting every player's attention!!


REHawk 2 years, 2 months ago

jaybate, do we hear you pecking away, preparing an extensive set of posts on the variety of directions encompassed in this Bedore article today?


REHawk 2 years, 2 months ago

JCAR2510, as big man specialist, Manning stands tall as one of the best coaches in the nation. He does possess the luxury of being hired to specialize. Self, on the other hand, has the responsibility of overseeing the entire show. Even though he was a guard, and his focus is upon guard recruiting and development, he hasn't the time to focus on Jayhawk guards in the way that Manning has to work with the bigs. Your presentation and research are marvelously presented. Obviously much thought and effort went into that. Nice post.


Jayhawks Rock 2 years, 2 months ago

On ESPN "kings court" he states that the best in state bastketball rivalry is between Kansas and Mizzou. It must be so good that it can still count even though there is a state line between them.


REHawk 2 years, 2 months ago

As Jeff gets more experience and confidence, and if he develops as a more dependable ball handler, I look to see us run our offense more through him, to keep so much focus off Thomas. We have yet scratched only the surface in experimenting with the type of damage Jeff and Thomas can do with our inside game. If we ever get that synchronized, defenders will have to abandon attention on the offense of Travis and our guards. Jeff might be the key to unleashing our offense.


Justin Carlson 2 years, 2 months ago

Reed (#109 in HS) undrafted strongest work ethic of all 20 players except maybe T-ROB perfect mold of a college role player good defender, good shooter, good passer, limited in all around NBA game not a Hinrich. But with his work ethic he may one day crack a roster spot in the NBA.

Selby (#1 in HS yeah right!) 49 in draft most highly touted recruit in the Self era. NCAA suspension, injuries, not buying into the system. Biggest disappointment ever in a KU uniform. Would like to have seen him as a soph or junior. NBA Limited time may one day develop needed more time at the college level.

Taylor (#77 in HS) Well who knows? If this streak of 19pts/game 2 or fewer turnovers/game continues he may be 35 – 50 draft guy maybe higher. Everyone knows his story as it is fresh in our minds. Who knows what the future holds. In my opinion he may very be another quick version of Chalmers with a weaker outside stroke and prone to the turnover!

Johnson (#24 in HS) highly touted out of HS fell in love with the “3” and is not using is athletic ability God gave him. I hate to make the comparison but remember a high flyer by the name of Giddens that fell in love with the “3” and never reached his full potential. Obviously Giddens had other issues but I see EJ in the same mold as JR G.

Danny vs. Billy in Summary! Just my opinion no stab at Self or the program I just think based on total number of guards vs. bigs we have dropped off on the guards progressing as true impact and development. I only bring this up based on my numbers of average draft order vs. HS rank!

Bigs >> NBA 56,27,13,11,13,14 (guess t-rob 5) withey 40 = 1st round 20th pick HS 34,54,16,8,30,29,49,31,36 = 32 overall HS rank 12 moves up in improvement!

Guards >> NBA (Undrafted will receive 60) 13,34,60,60,60,12,60,49, 30 Taylor, 60 EJ undrafted = 2nd round 44th pick HS (no rank 150) 13,12,27,21,150,8,109,1,77,24 = 44 stayed the same?

Your thoughts ??


Justin Carlson 2 years, 2 months ago

Morris x 2 Marcus (#29 in HS) 14 NBA and Markieff (#49 in HS) 13 NBA No one will ever forget the Morris’s improvement anytime soon. Skinny kids to men in 3 short years NBA potential will both be starters in 2 years maybe less and both will contribute to the team’s success. They could exceed Arthur’s impact time will tell.

Robinson (#31 in HS) Fresh in our minds and who can’t love this young man’s game. Overall POY possible, Big 12 POY yep, Top 5 draft yep. I am personally looking forward to his NBA career no one is more deserving than T_ROB!

Withey (#36 in HS) Wow improvement player of the year easy yes. Possible the most improved player in a KU uniform. Very high ceiling under Manning. Possible a 1st rounder next year, if he keeps this up!

2006 – 2012 Guards

Bill’s “Garden” 10 players (One more for comparison in a 3 guard starting rotation)

Rush (#13 in HS) 13 in draft unlimited athletic ability sometimes was to unselfish Self felt like he should shoot more but part of the reason 08 “no go to guy” formula worked. Up and down NBA should be a consistent starter, time will tell if he consistently fills the stat sheet moving forward.

Chalmers (#12 in HS) 34 in draft amazing improvement from freshman to junior season and no one in Rock Chalk land will ever forget the “shot” NBA with the Heat and the big 3 overshadowing his abilities. But if he continues to improve will be starter throughout his career.

Robinson (#27 HS) undrafted huge improvements learned his role and become a good college player but never developed into a NBA player, but critical to the success of the 08 championship

Collins (21st in HS) undrafted I feel more athletic as a senior HS – Sophomore in college. I recall at the end of the McD’s game threw the ball off the backboard for a monster jam! Didn’t see too much “ups” at KU. I always felt he was never in shape his last couple of years. I am not saying he wasn’t the most important member of the team but you look at him being undersized (height) and conditioning might have limited his success at the NBA level.

Morningstar (no rank) Undrafted RussRob mold great passer and sometimes found his stroke from “3” will probably never reach NBA status.

X Henry (#8 in HS) 12 in the draft big guard that could have used more college time to develop his game. Never got close to his potential at KU I feel a disappointment. NBA as of late is not seeing much court time and will probably never break into the starting lineup


Justin Carlson 2 years, 2 months ago

Bill Self vs. Danny Manny “Player Development”

My Jaybate moment!!

Just my opinions and something I have been pondering for a long-time dating back to bringing DM on the staff in 2004 and full on staff in 2006.

I know Self is the X’s and O’s, defense, offense, press “O” inbounds etc. and ultimately the beginning and end of KU basketball.

Does Bill turn the bigs/posts over to Danny and are they “his” projects?

Is Bill ultimately the man to mold the guards into the best they can be? It seems to make sense considering he was a guard at OSU.

I would like to raise a question who has done a better job of player development in the last 6 years Billy or Danny?

Obviously NBA/Pro draft status is the easiest way to grade a player out of the KU system. I would like to compare a few of the “key” top players in last 6 years and compare improvement, team impact and “NBA ready” vs. “HS Rank”

2006 – 2012 Bigs

Danny’s “Garden” 9 players

Kaun (#34 in HS) 56 in draft Huge improvements considering his lack of early touches of a basketball, Member of the 08 champs team we don’t win title without him easily could be on an NBA Roster but Russia is home..

Jackson (#54 in HS) 52 in draft Huge improvements Member of the 08 champs team we don’t win title without him just didn’t get it going in the NBA now overseas

Arthur (#16 in HS) 27 in draft One of the most athletic bigs we have had in the BS era huge numbers at KU and if he stays injury free will have a big NBA career.

Wright (#8 in HS) 13 in draft very athletic undersized big, maybe left one year to early and never has put it altogether in the league still looking for a shot

Aldrich (#30 in HS) 11 in draft huge improvements from freshman to senior year and who will ever forget the final 4 against UNC where he showed Hansbrough how to play the game. I feel he will make an impact on a team that has a more half court game. Thunder seems to moving a little too fast Cole.


REHawk 2 years, 2 months ago

Teehan needs some stress relief right now, and the bench must gain more experience. So, yeah, it makes sense to juggle the CT/KY minutes somewhat, if not completely. Young's energy is boundless, tho sometimes he plays a bet too sped up, and still has lots of work to do on defense. He always seems to have a nose for the carom off the glass, so probably would have elevated our rebound totals at Ames...tho who knows what mistakes he might have made in a compensatory analysis. I'd say the common denominator for opposing defenses, at this juncture, will be to keep the ball out of Thomas' hands while packing the lane to limit TT's drives. The mid to long range jumper wil be available for TR, EJ, CT or KY if they can become proficient at making it pay. I envision a chunk of our offense coming from two steps inside the arc, with more freethrow opportunities for our longrange shooters. Once the pressure is lifted from Thomas, TT and Jeff, we might get back to usual steady offense. My humble armchair opinions.


Krohnutz 2 years, 2 months ago

We are all freakin' out about the loss to Iowa State... Look, I told you guys that they were a good team, they just needed time, and that they would "get" somebody. They got us, it sucks, but they did.

I was dead on about Iowa State, but I was absolutely wrong about KU this year.

I absolutely expected us to finish 3rd or 4th. We have no bench. This was known when everybody declared last season and we lost three incoming freshman. I fully expected Withey to get pushed around under the basket. I expected Taylor to be insane by now, right up there with Metta World Peace. All of these things I expected, and man I stand corrected.

This team is leading a division in a very "up" year with teams that have more depth, more guards, and/or more overall talent. For the most part, Withey has played great, Taylor is our only aggressive guard, and TRob has been one of the best big men in the country. This team is one or two bench players from being elite.

They have played one of the toughest schedules in the country, and here we are, four losses in, and pissed? I was worried we would have six or seven at this point.

I feel like Young is the guy that will finally step it up, the tools are there to stretch defenses out, he just needs to get it in his head to do it. (And no, Teabagger is not the guy to do it, sorry to all the fangirls out there in love with the pretty boy face, he is a defensive liability.)


Konkis Dongington III 2 years, 2 months ago

If Self is truly worried about energy (and given the last 3 performances, he should be) it's all the more reason to start putting KY into the game over Connor. Young may not play O or D any better than Teahan, but he does make hustle plays, steals, rebounds, and passes the ball pretty well. Teahan is contributing rushed shots, bricks, and TOs right now and that's about it. The only thing Young does worse than Teahan is that he makes bad fouls (away from the ball). Either way, hopefully someone on the bench gets out there and shows that they want to contribute.


Jack Wilson 2 years, 2 months ago

For discussion .. two things: 1) On ict's coattails a bit here .. why isn't KY a better option than Teahan at the 3? Oh, I get KY's poor footwork on defense. Let's call it a 3 or 4 out of 10. Then Teahan's footwork .. perhaps, benefit of the doubt .. a 4.5 or a 5.5 from the Soviet judge. A bit better. But the total package has to be considered.

This is not the first time that coach Self has gotten on folks for rebounding, or energy.

Does anyone question KY's rebounding or energy?

As a total package, I'd go with KY for more minutes; still can insert Teahan to see if the 3-ball is working. If Teahan's 3-ball isn't working, very little value other than a body.

Curious as to what others might think there.

2) I made a point after the loss to Iowa St. that although there are a number of factors .. we've seen a number referenced .. one that I think is definitive. If Releford asserts himself aggressively on the offensive end, we win. Speculation, I agree. Passing around the perimeter. Waiting for the perfect opening. Passive. Passive.

On another team, maybe. On this team, no way. We have to have another aggressive scoring option on this team. Some guys (EJ, Teahan) standing at the arc shooting 30% or so don't count. This team changes offensively if Releford attacks, is aggressive, takes what he wants by exploiting overplays, slashes, etc.

We head to MU Saturday and if Mr. Passive is afraid to make a mistake, and Teahan and EJ continue to be Teahan and EJ around the arc ... well, you know the likely result. MU will try to take away TRob. Their guards are generally quick enough to cause TT problems. Surely that will be the gameplan. Take away TRob, slide and limit TT's penetration. Put TT in positions to make mistakes. And basically take their chances with everything else.

Releford playing aggressively changes that. Of course, so does EJ or Teahan banging down 3s. I like the % chances with Releford over relying on 3s.


REHawk 2 years, 2 months ago

The thing about Naadir, he has been offered a marvelous opportunity for significant minutes, considering this team's makeup and Tyshawn's early season blunders...and he has not risen to the call. Russ Rob did not have so many opportunities because Miles was such a steady senior point guard. Then, of course, Russell got into Bill Self's doghouse by opting not to go into a game for a closing mop up minute or two. That immature frosh decision sealed his fate as a bench fixture, even when his game might have relieved an exhausted starter at season's end.


kusportsdotcom 2 years, 2 months ago

When I was in high school, my school's basketball team lost a rivalry game in the opponent's gym. The crowd rushed the floor and it was crazy. The next day, I found out someone from the opposing team was knocked over or hit and was in the hospital. Turns out, while he was in the middle of the mob of people celebrating, a nerve in his neck got pinched and he was paralyzed. This was about 8 years ago, and he's made a great recovery, but he's still not the same athlete he was.

Point is, rushing the court is dangerous. There should absolutely be some sort of fine to discourage the act. Too many things can go wrong. What if the ref that got hurt was one of the ISU or KU players?


DallasJay14 2 years, 2 months ago

I love the comments that Coach Self made about Tharpe. I think he has a lot of work to be done and if all of you remember Russ Rob did not get any playing time when he was a freshman and almost transfered. I am not saying Tharpe is Russ Rob, but I think he will have the talent and quickness to eventually be a solid PG.

Rock Chalk!


joshar 2 years, 2 months ago

It says: “We haven’t been as energized the last two games. We’ve played flat,” Self said of Wednesday’s 64-54 home victory over Texas A&M and Saturday’s 72-64 loss at Iowa State.

Wasn't the Texas A&M game on Monday instead of Wednesday?


HawkKlaw 2 years, 2 months ago

Of course energy is going to be a factor when you can't rely on your bench for production. That's the nature of this year's squad. Teahen needs to start hitting shots. And since he is the sixth man, he's got to step up his defensive tenacity. Young and Wesley need to be much more consistent. They have the skills to be great role players. Naadir obviously needs a lot of experience and maturity.

And that's just the bench. As far as our starters go, EJ and Travis need to be more consistent offensively. There's really no excuse for their lack of production. Our offense is centered around passing the ball quickly from side to side and making good entry passes to the post players. EJ and Releford should be pros at that. However, our offense often stalls and looks lethargic (which is probably due to the lack of energy Coach Self speaks of). It's time to step it up.

The good news, though, is that Tyshawn, TRob and Withey are all playing great basketball. Self knows that the team is on their collective backs. And until HCBS can get some consistency from the rest of the team, energy is going to be a factor.


RockChalk26 2 years, 2 months ago

It will be a busy off season for the Kansas bench players, finding a school to transfer to and all.

Self is basically saying, "Step up or ship out."


REHawk 2 years, 2 months ago

Wise decision regarding Senior Night speeches, seniors only. Thomas a very very special player; in their own ways, so were Cole, Marcus, Markieff, Brandon, Mario, Shady and others. The 4 year commitment remains very special in its own light, rare and to be given appreciative accolades for the student athletes who have stayed the course.


REHawk 2 years, 2 months ago

Well, my imagery did wander a bit astray. Those double barrell blasts were intended to whizz by, at least a foot above their ears.


REHawk 2 years, 2 months ago

Self has just fired off a double barrell Browning .12 guage, one cylinder at his listless starters, the other at his incompetent bench. Are starters suffering from midseason exhaustion, or merely growing careless and inattentive to game plan? Will current bench players ever see much game action in Jayhawk uniforms, this season or next? In blunt psychological savvy, the commander has just called out his troops. For both starters and bench, the future is now. Do or die....


SDSurferFan 2 years, 2 months ago

Selfs remarks about his bench are about as blatant as I have ever heard from him or anyone else in coaching. If he says this to the media I would love to know what he tells them directly.


Brianna Zaleski 2 years, 2 months ago

Well all you posters who keep questioning Self's bench management (icthawk, Shaw etc...), there is your explanation straight from the horse's mouth. Bench players are not valuing the basketball and are not competing enough to see floor time. Quit b*tching because now you know EXACTLY why Self is not playing his bench extended mins. They are just not good enough right now.
And for all the posters who think that he should sit back and watch Tharpe get ripped, KY get blown by on defense, on the road in confrence while leading the pack in the standings, are the same posters who would be on here crying and up in arms if they saw that and knw Taylor or EJ were on the bench.


voygr1 2 years, 2 months ago

People this is not unusual if you look back at previous seasons KU and other teams have 2 or 3 games mid season where they struggle. Its the recovery that is important. It happened to Roy and its happened to Duke legs get tired and players can become complacent. Bill Self has done a better job than anyone at bringing a team out of they slumps and getting them back on track, Seven straight league championships!!! All involved a loss that was unexpected toward middle or end of league play even in 208. Hang in there and know they will come back. Lets see where we are at after next four games. Oklahoma, Missouri, Baylor and K-state.


Ralster Jayhawk 2 years, 2 months ago

Anyone has the right to be as critical of Self, Williams, Coach K, Izzo, (whomever) often as you want. Heck, Ive occasionally had 'issues' with his tailor, and sometime's Cindy's choice of ties on gameday (sheesh!)...And seriously, Billy needs to cut down on all the burritos--> may not be good for diverticulitis. Ya gotta be 100% on the sideline, coach! You cant have pain-in-the-neck guardplay+pain-in-the-belly going on and expect WildBill to be shootin' straight on the sideline...we all remember that 'look' he gets on the sideline (like vs. VCU and UNI), when he's not even redfaced-cussin-behind-the-hand anymore...jayhawks goin' down like a Jap Zero, but belly-issues-a-rumblin', obviously takin precedence...

And lord in heaven, we havent even brought up the set-piece, center-piece, hair-piece...

( I'm totally jokin'. My avatar+Self's record at Tulsa+Illini+KU should reveal allegiances... Self, frankly, doesnt need defending. Just some fun @ Billy-boy's expense.)


Shawn Otrimble 2 years, 2 months ago

Did anybody else watch the Mizzu-Texas game? I think the key to beating them is to not let them have easy lay-ups. Let them live and die by the three. Ku needs to mug them when they drive so they will pull up for jump shots. Their jump shots don't fall as good in the second half and Texas almost got away with a win if it wasn't for the easy lay-ups.


Shawn Otrimble 2 years, 2 months ago

Jaybate your a fool, and most of the comments you make are always negative. Irishcharlie just because you were dumb enough to invest in a get rich scheme for some stupid energy drink, and now you probably have a room full of the junk nobody wants. Peddle it somewhere else. It's so easy to pick on KU basketball when we are as blessed and spoiled as we are. When we lose other teams storm the courts in our conference. This is supposed to be our down year remember? We are still in first place and ranked in the top ten. I wouldn't trade Bill Self for any coach period. Under Self, our teams are gonna be tough, which I believe was missing from Roy's coaching. Next year we will have some new studs coming in that are going to do some great things at KU. I just can't believe it's February and I'm checking the KU football board every day. Life is good as a Jayhawk alum.


billnict 2 years, 2 months ago

The Big 12 needs to impose a big fine for rushing the court/field after a game like the SEC did! It's just a matter of time before we see someone get killed!


Jayhawks Rock 2 years, 2 months ago

I actually agree with some of the coach Self critics. It seems to me that he wins more games by getting the most out of his best. The losses in the tournament and a very few games during the season often come down to the lack of bench play. So what is the magic formula? I suppose we could lose a couple more during regular season to be better prepared for March. I still think he one of the top three best coaches in college basketball.


justinryman 2 years, 2 months ago

Got that, "blah" feeling?

Got that, "2:30 in that afternoon" feeling all game?

Got that, "Oh I need to get going" feeling?

Try 5 hour Energy before the game!!!


phogphan2000 2 years, 2 months ago

We all knew it was going to be a long conference season (18 games) and KU has a short bench. I disagree with Jaybate in that there are usually guys that come off the bench and do more than shoot 1 of 7 or give up a couple quick fouls. Yes we all appreciate that the bench players are trying and we need them, but that leaves a lot more pressure on the starters to get it done every night in a long, long conference season. Worst stat of the game is Teahan taking more FGAs than most of the starters. This is what I'm always afraid of, guys like Releford not getting after it on offense even when the team is stalling out. He has to dribble around some picks and make some moves here and there rather than just reverse the ball back. Obviously it hurt with rebounding and scoring having Withey in foul trouble, but again, another guy not getting off shots. Seemed like EJ had took limited strokes as well. Those 3 can't all take the night off from trying to put up big numbers, one of them has to at least be attacking on any given night. All that said, KU didn't box out, key reason for the loss, didn't box out. What was it 11 off rebs to KUs 18 defensive rebs or something crazy, so 38% of the time on a miss they get it back? It always seemed the bigs didn't take care of FTs and the guards didn't box out on FGs. Box out, attack on offense with more than TT and TRob, keep winning games, end of story.


hawkster007 2 years, 2 months ago

Self wasn't outcoached, Hoiberg is not a rocket scientist, he merely did what the past few teams have done to KU with some success, and he packed it in the middle so TRob can't score and TT can't drive to the bucket, its not hard to figure out.

The difference - - Hoiberg has one big versatile stud Royce White that KU can't match up, and ISU had superior bench depth (39 minutes, 15 points and 10 rebounds off the bench for ISU, and KU has 29 minutes, 5 points, and 2 rebounds off the bench (and of those subs, Teahan was 1 for 7). In fact, ISU's bench had 3 offensive rebounds, and KU's entire team had 3 rebounds - - that is pathetic!!

I love TRob, but he is not a very good offensive rebounder this year, and the whole team sucks lately in that area as Self notes. How does KU get 50 rebounds against KSU (a good rebounding team), and then get outrebounded in 3 of the past 5 games? As Self says, its all about "energy, effort and want to"...

KU still needs to come up with someone else that can start making outside shots when other teams pack it in, so far that person is NOT CT, TR, EJ, or any other bench player. Although, I would give Young and Lindsay more minutes without yanking them, and see what they can do.

I don't think KU can get this thing turned around against better teams until someone besides TT (and it might be someone different every game) starts hitting some outside shots, because teams will continue to pack it in the middle.

This team suffers from lack of competition, the starters know Self has no other options from the bench, thus the apparent lack of effort at times.

This team will be a challenge for Self, but part of that is due to recent recruiting issues which failed to land an outside shooter (that didn't have grades/transcript issues). I'm tired of having to settle for players that sit out because of transfer issues, this is not the KU way - - and Duke, NC, and KY do not have those issues.

I'm optimistic as always when I have Self as a coach, but this team and its limitations will test his coaching ability - - mostly because I don't think there is lot he can do "coaching wise" to cure the lack of depth or outside shooting.


hotrodm 2 years, 2 months ago

Hoiberg did have a great game plan against us. He had Royce White play out on the 3 point line to draw Jeff Withey out from under the basket. I feel a zone at times would have been effective, maybe a 1-3-1 zone that would allow Withey to stay in the paint to block shots and rebound. Why not play a zone on a few possesions to shake things up?


jaybate 2 years, 2 months ago

Next...regarding energy, Self sent them out flat against aTm and got caught having to play starters big minutes.

He juices them a little for isu, but then Self gets outcoached by Fred the second straight time.

If he is not careful, the players are going to start saying there is a sign on his desk reading: No Bucks Here.


IrishCharlie 2 years, 2 months ago

Come on, spend a few bucks, problem solved........................


jaybate 2 years, 2 months ago

Naadir, Merv, Justin and KY appear the targets. These were the guys like those Self used to recruit at Tulsa that he said he could win with.

This year's nubes may not be much, but they at least have helped us win 17 games this year by being here.

The "cats" that can compete next year?

Here is what experience suggests will probably happen with such a big class..

One will transfer.

One will get a significant injury.

One will be too young mentally to perform well as a freshman.

One will play well, but still need 10 minutes rest.

Oh, and one will have to sit because multiple transcripts keep him from qualifying.

2-3 of these "cats" will play, but need a year, or three to become polished..

Another thing experience tells us. Two of the guys on the bench doing squat will play pretty well next year, because they get better.

This years group of nubes are doing little worse than any of Self's non 4-5 stars have ever done.

Remember Self tried to play EJ and Travis two years and sat them, too, and they were 4-5 stars. And Self could have used them, wanted to use them, tried to.

Oh, and any of these "cats" that really can compete instantly will be gone in one, or two years. Just ask Selby and X.

What is going on here? Is Self cracking?

He has a 17-4 team tied for first place and he is threatening team chemistry with apparent threats to bench players about next season's recruits?

This seems not like Bill Self.


KULA 2 years, 2 months ago

I'm worried about energy too. But you can't "tell" players not to be tired. It's a shame our bench is almost nonexistent, but 4 seconds? Really? Give a kid a break, Bill. It's just a conference game. I'd say we're already in the tournament. Who woulda thought Naadir was gonna be a "one and done?" (One mistake and you're done for the day) And sliding EJ over to the 1 is our best option? So when does he get to rest?

Well, it is what it is, and it's getting kinda late in the season to get a bencher prepared to contribute a few minutes/game come tournament time. But I don't think this bodes well for a tournament run. I still say we have the best starting five in the country, but you can't play them 35 min/game all season without it wearing them down.

And by the way, I wonder if Jim Calhoun coached his team to win every conference game last season, or if he coached them to prepare them for the tournament.


ParisHawk 2 years, 2 months ago

Now we know why ku dribbled out the clock: Self put in a play to get his team off the floor safely. The man is "aware".


ReffahsGPeludo 2 years, 2 months ago

“KU coach Self and the KU players stopped to help George when they saw him kneeling in a hallway and bleeding profusely. Self kept people from running into George and called for the KU doctor to make sure somebody was coming over to assist,”

This is how it's done, Coach Williams.


lv_jhwk 2 years, 2 months ago

As much as I want to see and hear Robinson speak, I fully agree with Self's take on Senior Day speeches.


Jeeveshawk 2 years, 2 months ago

Played flat. This is known as the Win Streak Effect. After we have been winning for a long time, we begin to feel too secure and start playing poorly. Then comes the next step in our road to a loss: victory. While continuing to perform clumsily, we play a squishy team, in our case: The Texas A&M Aggies. We chose to continue bumbling around carelessly, but managed to get away with it. After all, its only the Aggies! Now it is time for the next element of the Win Streak Effect. The Jayhawks must now play a decent team in the Iowa State Cyclones. But we are Kansas! We pommeled Baylor, we're first in this rigid conference we call the Big 12, and we beat these guys before. Coming off half-@!#ed shouldn't be a problem. Meanwhile our opponents brainwork is more like this: We need to charge full force like a bull at the matador, its our only chance of victory.

Its simple physics. If a smaller object hits a larger object with a greater velocity, the small object will over-power the larger object. That is exactly what happened to us against Iowa State.

However, their is one positive factor to the winstreak effect (other than the winstreak), after the loss, we hit as hard as we can for a stretch of a few games, and no team that is inferior to us will be able to subdue us during that stretch.


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