Iowa State defeats Kansas, 72-64

  • 1 p.m., Jan. 28, 2012
  • Hilton Coliseum, Ames, IA

Sunday, January 29, 2012

Taken by storm: Cyclone fans swamp floor to celebrate win over KU

Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor makes his way through the chaos on the court after Iowa State's 72-64 upset of the Jayhawks on Saturday, Jan. 28, 2012 at Hilton Coliseum.

Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor makes his way through the chaos on the court after Iowa State's 72-64 upset of the Jayhawks on Saturday, Jan. 28, 2012 at Hilton Coliseum.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 72-64 loss to Iowa State on Jan. 28, 2012.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Tyshawn Taylor and Thomas Robinson

KU players Tyshawn Taylor and Thomas Robinson talk to reporters following the Jayhawks' 72-64 loss to Iowa State on Jan. 28, 2012.

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KU vs. Iowa State

Box score

— Hundreds of Iowa State students raced onto the court, swaying and singing the song “Sweet Caroline” before finally heading home after the unranked Cyclones’ 72-64 victory over No. 5 Kansas on Saturday afternoon at Hilton Coliseum.

There certainly was a lot for ISU (15-6, 5-3) to celebrate.

Such as ...

• Snapping a 13-game losing streak vs. KU, which fell to 17-4 overall and 7-1 in the conference.

• Beating KU for the first time in Ames in eight seasons.

• Downing a Top-10 team at home for the first time since a 79-71 victory over KU in the 2000-01 season.

• And overcoming a ranked team at home for the first time since a 96-78 victory over No. 25 Colorado during the 2005-06 season.

“It’s really frustrating, really tough. I don’t know how to put it into words, the feeling when everybody is out there like that,” KU junior center Jeff Withey said of fans swamping the court at the Jayhawks’ expense. “I think a ref got hurt. I hope he’s all right.”

No Jayhawks or Cyclones were hurt during the court-storming that took place at the final buzzer. ISU officials, however, indicated that ref Darron George hurt his wrist trying to escape the mass of bodies en route to the locker room.

He iced the wrist, but did not head to the hospital for X-rays or treatment.

“I kind of wanted to get in there, rushing in there and party with them,” ISU forward Royce White said after scoring 18 points and grabbing nine rebounds. “It was a good thing that they were excited. It was a good win for us.”

White scored nine points in a critical 15-6 run that turned a 53-52 Cyclone deficit into a 67-59 lead at :59.

“I think we did an above-average job on him,” KU coach Bill Self said. “We guarded their team better the second half and did a bad job on him (in the second half, when he had 14 points). He’s good. Obviously Jeff and Thomas (Robinson) had problems with him the second half.”

Self cited rebounding as a critical factor in KU’s first league loss.

“I think they ‘outmanned’ us,” Self said. “When your guards combine for four rebounds and there were so many long misses ... I thought their guards did a great job. McGee (Tyrus, six rebounds) kept a lot of balls alive.”

Withey had six boards and Robinson seven on a day KU was outboarded, 36-23. ISU also outrebounded KU by eight in the Jayhawks’ 82-73 home victory over the Cyclones on Jan. 14.

“They are all, ‘man plays,’” Withey said of grabbing rebounds.

The last time KU was outrebounded by 10 or more was by Oklahoma State (36-26) on Feb. 27, 2010. KU’s 23 boards were fewest since securing 23 at Kansas State last season.

“They crashed the glass,” said Robinson, who scored 13 points off 5-of-11 shooting. “I’m just not playing like me. I am not taking my time. I am not playing.”

Robinson missed a dunk try with 4:58 left, with KU down by just three points. He also misfired from the inside on KU’s opening two possessions.

“That’s not how he’s been playing. He labored today,” Self said of Robinson, adding that only Tyshawn Taylor had a good line statistically (16 points, 10 assists, two turnovers, 35 minutes).

KU led by as many as six points (45-39) with 16:52 to play. However, Scott Christopherson (14 points, 9-of-10 from line) had four points in an 11-4 surge to put the Cyclones (who led 37-34 at half) right back on top.

“We were up six and hadn’t played well,” Self said. “If you had told me before the game we’d be up six with 13, 14 minutes left, I’d say, ‘OK, I can live with that.’ Iowa State was so much better down the stretch. I don’t know if we played without poise ... I don’t think we responded great the final four minutes.”

The Jayhawks dropped their first road game in a rough stretch of four. The next three road contests are at Missouri, Baylor and Kansas State.

“We didn’t get off to a great start in what I told our guys is really the start of the conference season,” Self said. “It’s going to get hard. We have to tighten some things up. Sometimes maybe through a loss you can get their attention more than by winning ugly.”

KU will meet Oklahoma at 8 p.m. Wednesday in Allen Fieldhouse.


manginorh00lz 9 years, 2 months ago

Withey needs to stop making that same face after every single foul that is called on him.

rwhawk 9 years, 2 months ago

He learned it from the Morris twins. They were the worst and I think the whole team got really bad at it last year with them in the lead.

Hats of to T-Rob and TT, they tend not to unless they genuinely have a decent case.

Chris Bruning 9 years, 2 months ago

Yeah but look at some of the ridiculous calls made against him lately.

coolhand357 9 years, 2 months ago

Rediculous calls or not, that is Withey's normal face. He always looks pissed.

Kye Clark 9 years, 2 months ago

s is not a "the sky is falling" post. As many have said, we weren't going to run the table in the conference, so the loss in and of itself isn't too bothersome. However, there are areas of concern going forward, and here are a few of my musings following the game:

1) This was supposed to be the easiest of the gauntlet of conference road games ahead (aside from Okie State, but they weren't really being mentioned). If we lost this, what are reasonable expectations against K-State, Baylor, & Misery? It could simply be a case of Iowa State being a bad match-up for us. After all, for probably 70 of the 80 minutes between the two games ISU has looked like the better team, and we were fortunate to win the game at AFH. If it's not the case of ISU simply being a bad match-up for us, and we are going to continue struggling on the road, then our string of conferences championships is in serious jeopardy. Which leads me right to point no. 2...

2) Adjusting our expectations. To start the year, everyone admitted it was destined to be a "down year". Then we hang with Duke, and both the fans and the players start believing that we can beat anyone. Which is true. We win a bunch, then Davidson happens. Expectations knocked back down. But after we beat Baylor, all the talk was that we were a legit Final 4 team, maybe even a NC contender. Should this loss force us to adjust our expectations once again? Should we try and go back to just "enjoying the ride"? Personally, if we can get 2 wins against Misery this year, I will be happy. That's all I need to have happen. Everything else - another Big XII championship, a deep run in the big dance, post-season player accolades - would be nice, but I need this team to send those slavers from that trash-dump of a state limping to the SEC knowing they were our B!%¢# for over a century! Granted one or two losses against them this year won't change that fact, but I want THEM to KNOW it!

3) Effort. In order for this team to beat Misery, or for them to achieve any of the other goals fans, coaches, & players have for this team, we had better get it together. And stop with the "it's just one game", "we're fine" crap. We're not fine. We came out flat & uninspired against aTm and some fans showed concern. But we won, and there was enough rationalization to sweep it under the rug. I even bought into Jaybate's theory that Self sent them out flat on purpose against aTm so that he could ramp up the intensity for Iowa State. But either it didn't happen, or Self's attempt to motivate the group fell on deaf ears, because that was a soft performance.

Kye Clark 9 years, 2 months ago

The concern is that the Davidson loss should have been enough to clue these guys into the fact that if they don't bring their A-game they stand a very good chance to lose. And what should have happened today was they should have came out looking for some payback for ISU making us look bad for most of the game in our place. It didn't happen, despite the fact that we had 5 days and a whole game's worth of film from the previous meeting with which to prepare.

4) We need another scorer, preferably for someone to emerge as a reliable 3-point shooter. A lot has been made about KU keeping down its 3-point attempts, and I agree that our best chances of success are not to jack up the outside shot with great frequency. But it would be nice if we had someone that it wouldn't be a complete shock if they went 5-8 from beyond the arc when we really need it. Like when TRob has a less-than-dominating performance, or Tyshawn gets into foul trouble. Both Travis & EJ went 2-3 today, so that's encouraging, especially for EJ. Having someone that other teams have to respect would make things so much easier for TRob & Withey.

5) The bench. Unfortunately this is a problem that apparently has no solution. The one hope we had was the glimmer we saw from KY in the Ohio State game. However, he has not used that to springboard himself to any kind of consistency. And Connor's troubles are well documented. Below average defender, probably a below average passer, and if he isn't hitting shots he's a net negative. And I'm not saying this to pile on Connor. It isn't his fault. He was never supposed to be a reliable piece of the puzzle. He was a walk-on, and has been forced into a role greater than himself due to the lack of depth.

6) Rebounding. We have been out-rebounded in 4 of the 8 Big XII games, and almost 5 with a narrow edge in the aTm game. And against ISU...3 offensive rebounds? That's bad. No way to spin it; it's bad. This team can't win another conference championship on talent alone. There isn't enough top-to-bottom talent to win on talent alone. They have to play hard, every game. And rebounding is one stat that you can point to and judge if your team played hard. We're not undersized, so there aren't any excuses. This ties into the comment about effort being a problem.

I'm sure we'll come out at home and handle OU. They are not my concern. My concern is next Saturday - at Misery.

ParisHawk 9 years, 2 months ago

Nice post. I would have said being tired was a factor in the fouling and the effort, but the team did have more days than usual before this game.

Chris Shaw 9 years, 2 months ago

4 is not going to happen with this team! What happens when they do go 5-8 from the field? What are the expectations then? This team is too streaky and too unreliable to keep jacking up Treyhan 3's in hopes of getting hot from behind the arc.

You could say that was a direct cause for the loss today. I mean, when was the last time Conner hit a "Big Shot" or momenting changing shot in a game. Not since Ohio State or possibly the Kentucky game in the first half early in the season.

Chris Shaw 9 years, 2 months ago

you are indeed correct! How about away from AFH?

Chris Shaw 9 years, 2 months ago

As for #5 you can read the other article/thread that is dedicated towards the bench play.

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 2 months ago

I predicted a 'Sweet 16' finish at the onset and see no need to change that now. I almost got reeled in again... But this team is having the exact same problems that every Self team does except w/less talent to overcome the mistakes. We always seem to play down to the talent level of the teams we play. Look at our losses in the NCAA. They aren't often to the best teams but to athletic mid-majors who manage to stay in the game late into the 2nd half.

Mike Gammill 9 years, 2 months ago

I think a 'round of 32' might be more appropriate. Self's teams have no killer instinct, and never have. He likes the half court game, and scores in the 60s and 70s. I wish just once, that KU would come out and see if they could run the opponent off the court. In lots of cases this year, I believe we could have. When we got the early 2nd half run on ISU going, and were getting a few boards, that would have been the perfect time to put on the transition jets and just see what would have happened. I guess I just miss Royball.

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 2 months ago

My reasoning gammimc is that the 1st two games will be close to home..

Hank Cross 9 years, 2 months ago

I thought "Sweet Caroline" belonged to the Red Sox. Ames isn't a bastion of originality. I remember when they used to play the theme from the Tonight Show when Johnny Orr was there. In any event, Ames seems to have the Jayhawks number for some reason. No reason to panic, but the game did show how thin is KU. KU should still win the conference because BU and MU will drop more games to unranked B12 opponents. (You'll never go broke selling those two short.)

Beyond that, it is hard to say. A 2 -seed and a trip to the S16 still seem likely. But for anything more, more players need to contribute. EJ has to step up. Travis and he were in the same boat and now Travis is making the most of the opportunity. Teahan is a real liability at this point. How he got the rep as some type of 3 gun is a mystery. With those two in slumps, the opportunity is there for Young to grab some minutes.

Kye Clark 9 years, 2 months ago

"How he got the rep as some type of 3 gun is a mystery."

His first year, where he got almost no playing time, he went 12-20 from beyond the arc. That miniscule sample, collected during meaningless minutes as a freshman, is what enamored fans with his trey-gun.

EJ's 4 turnovers were bad, but otherwise he had as good a statistical game as did Travis. I think the both of them need to step up on offense. As for KY, I'd be in favor of him playing more minutes than Connor, but he doesn't seem to be a huge improvement.

Hank Cross 9 years, 2 months ago

You're right about EJ and Travis having similar stats. What I am looking for is for EJ to put his own stamp on a game, some skill or style. TRob has his double-doubles, Withey - the blocks, TT - the drives, Travis - D and opportunity scoring. But EJ really hasn't developed something that he brings consistently. I'm still a fan of his and think he can be a great weapon down the stretch.

Kye Clark 9 years, 2 months ago

I agree, although I think since both EJ's & Travis's defense have been praised (in LJW stories, by HCBS, and by the posters), I have noticed both have lapses. Maybe those lapses were always there, but I'm just noticing them more because I expect more from them now. But Travis in particular today a couple of times I caught myself wondering "is this the same guy that I've heard posters say is the best defender we've had here in the Self era? Better than Rush? What was he doing right there?"

My hope for EJ's stamp on the game was that he'd take over the PG duties and thus decrease Tyshawn's turnovers. That he would be the one to drive looking to pass, as opposed to Tyshawn's drive looking to score. However, it hasn't worked out that way as EJ has been given more of the ball handling duties, and while Tyshawn's turnovers have dropped, EJ's have risen, beyond the point I thought they would from naturally just having the ball in his hands more. I think if he doesn't get his outside shot falling soon, his "stamp" should be to focus as much of his energies on being a lock-down defender, and with his height at the guard spot combined with excellent leaping abilities, should try and increase our rebounding presence. Of course, if he is destined to be more of a "glue" player this year, that forces Travis to be more of an impact scorer, as opposed to an opportunistic one. Withey probably isn't going to be a prolific scorer. Him and TRob haven't figured out the best way to co-exist in the post. Not entirely their fault, they are playing together for the first time this year and chemistry isn't built over-night. But because of this the third scorer duties have to fall to Travis. We've seen him do it, just needs to happen with more regularity.

Alan Mills 9 years, 2 months ago

Johnson's problem is not offense. We all know he cannot score with any consistency. His shooting yesterday was a nice change, but certainly not the norm. No, Johnson's problems come at the other end. Christopherson's 4 points in that run ALL came against Johnson, including a runner where the shot clock was running down. Johnson's man, whoever he guarded, got past him every play. He shows no ability to keep his man in front or even make any attempt to cut his man off. His man beats him and he watches. When you always have to help your guards on D, then you will usually give up easy shots or easy rebounds. Teahan tries on D but is often too slow for the match-up. I'm not convinced Johnson even tries on D, except for the occasional hero play. But, taking pride on D every possession is just not something you see from him. He proved against A&M that he's much more concerned with his offensive numbers than anyone we've seen at KU in a long time. Just my observations.

Spencer Goff 9 years, 2 months ago

"As for KY, I'd be in favor of him playing more minutes than Connor, but he doesn't seem to be a huge improvement."

Have to disagree with you there, I think KY is a massive improvement over Teabagger right now. And that isn't a statement as to his dominance, moreso Teabagger is that bad.

Look at it this way, if KY comes in, goes 1 for 4 from ranged, plays MEDIOCRE defense, snags a couple rebounds, and isn't jacking up catch and shoot shots like he's "feeling it" that is already an improvment over Teabagger.

And you are dead on about the meaningless minutes leading to his label; it actually extends even into this year. Looking at his sample of "big games," the majority came against cupcakes or when the game was done.

So we have a three point specialist who cannot shoot from ranged, and fades in big situations. Teabagger has to pick it up, or not play.

bad_dog 9 years, 2 months ago

No matter what Teahan has or has not done for the team. nothing gives you the right to call him "teabagger".


captku 9 years, 2 months ago

I would be okay also if we took that song off of our playlist at AFH. How did that sneak in there anyway? Here is also hoping that the Teahan ship gets righted SOON. It will be tough with he and EJ both in a slump. Real tough.

texashawk10 9 years, 2 months ago

I was surprised by the number of students I met that were from Boston when I was a student so maybe one of the band leaders was from Boston and snuck it in there. It's a great sing-a-long song and gets the student section making some noise which is a good thing. I also dated a girl named Caroline while I was at KU so I have a soft spot for that song as well.

KANSTUCKY 9 years, 2 months ago

...and what the heck was that jumping flashy light terrible towel thing? "We have the best fans in the country" Welcome to the bandwagon, Mr. Mayor. Wait until they have to travel more than an hour in their 1982 Datsun pickup.

David Howell 9 years, 2 months ago

A lot of good points have been made, but now that the big BANDAID has come off, Big Bill has to make some important decisions.

Until the Jayhawks learn the importance of driving to the bucket (good things usually happen) and then show more pride in making their FT's (why is it TT always seems to only make 1 of 2?!), it is only going to get worse. They aren't equipped like in years past to consistently make very many 3 point shots game in and game out. But they bomb away and watch the other team out hustle us to most rebounds.

I agree on Withey's faces he makes. Sad to see a presumed intelligent man acting as if he can't understand why a moving screen was called or why a lack of muscle or touch made his shot fall short. Kudos to making his FT's, but his rebounding is another story. He either fails to block out or tries to rebound from too far under the bucket. In the 2nd half at least twice he was standing directly under the bucket on a 3 point shot only to try and rebound with his hands hanging at his side ....... Simple basketball. I am sure the coaches have seen it, preached it, but to no avail.

The sad, obvious, but probably not fully digested part of this year, is that we have NO bench and next year our two best players will be gone. Yikes !

Which leads me to my final thought. If we have no real bench to speak of, why not get them more minutes to benefit for next season. I bring this up because it is fully obvious that Conner Teahan has little value. Let's face it he hasn't really produced in a meaningful game in some time. Seriously, he is a SENIOR and they need to quit saying he has potential and "man, remember how he nailed 20 in a row in practice" (or however the stories go.) Other bench players can produce more size, more rebounding ability, and quickness on defense.

The Jayhawks have 10 regular games left. "10", and of those the only two wins we can count on 99% are home games against TTech and OU. That is it and I am giving the Hawks the home court edge against OU even though they won at KState because of our loss today. Short of that and I would have said OU had a chance on our homecourt ............

Robert Murphy 9 years, 2 months ago

This year two of our best players are sitting on the bench. One who can shoot and one who can rebound and both better than our bench players. If they had been on the court this year we could have had a great team. It seems something is always missing.

AZHawk72 9 years, 2 months ago

Well, so much for "whoever wins the first five minutes of the second half usually wins the game." Our best five minutes were then. However, our lack of depth continues to undo us. Too many look too gassed. After a good run, such as the start of the second half, we just don't have the legions to spell the guys for a blow of a minute. Missouri suffers from the same issue, which doomed them at Okie-State. It looks like the crowd carries us at hime, and the lack of depth drowns us on the road.

When you factor in the lack of outside shooting on most nights, I don't see how anything can change. A little more positioning and heart on the rebounds might at least mask our shortcomings, though.

WhoSaidThat 9 years, 2 months ago

All this other stuff is ok but to me we only need to do 2 things, drive the paint on O and rebound on D.

Offensively we need is to have the mentality that if Jeff or TRob isn't open the 2nd option should be to drive! Passing to drive is fine but get the ball inside! No more taking long 2's! Most of the time even when the long 2's are hitting they are poor in shot selection or just nasty and shouldn't have gone in. Drive the paint, get fouled, dish to a big, maybe you make a layup. MORE REASON TO DRIVE No one has a true 5 in the big12 other than KU. Sure lots of teams have a 4 that plays at the 5, but really I just don't understand what is wrong with our mentality. Get in the paint!

The defense is pretty good, focus on rebounds every game and continue to play how we have been. We have a good team! Act like you know! RCJH!

ParisHawk 9 years, 2 months ago

ISU isn't the only team with a coach. If we can't hit open jumpers they will all over-defend the drive and the post. We have to get some points from outside of 10 feet.

WhoSaidThat 9 years, 2 months ago

Hoiberg IS arguably the second best coach in the big 12. Not sure I like the coaching point.

I didn't say we can't shoot 3's, just not long jumpers. I mean yea, hit the 3 but not when you can't hit the 2. Hit the 3 after you attempt to drive for the 2. Im saying let's not be the "live by the 3" team. First, you should look to break the defender! Think about how we are built and our strengths. The 3 is not option 1, even when they are defending the 2.

Bion Ostrander 9 years, 2 months ago

ISU killed KU on the boards, KU only gets 3 offensive rebounds (none by TRob and 2 by Withey), ISU gets to the free-throw line and wins most of the 50/50 balls and hustle plays. And Royce easily outplays TRob and Withey.

Teahan 1 for 6 on 3-pointers, only plays 14 minutes and jacks up 1/3 of KU's 17 3-point shots, ugh! I'm tired of seeing Teahan miss the same corner baseline shot every game, clearly its time to try a shot from somewhere else on the floor - - how about a shot within the arc?

KU no depth, KU basically played 6 players with credible minutes and even ISU had more depth, 7 players with credible minutes.

I suspected, as probably did many fans, that KU would lose this one, although when KU went up by 5 in the 2nd half that looked like a pretty good run at the time. KU has not looked well in its past 3 games, and 2 of those were against much weaker Texas and A&M.

It doesn't appear that KU corrected anything or learned much from the 2 prior poor performances, that is disappointing. No, the sky is not falling, but it also offers no reason to be optimistic about KU road performances in the future.

I hope this loss gets the player's attention, but lets face it, with no competition for positions and playing time, its not the best formula for creating a quick turnaround. Its a roller coaster ride.

Mizz has lost on the road to K-State and Okie State, but has also won tough road games at Iowa State and Baylor. Neither KU nor MU has lost at home, although Baylor lost at home against Mizz.

Difficult to say who has the edge, its a long season. KU's road games at Mizz, Baylor and KSU in the next 2 weeks will likely decide the conference race.

KU is going to have to find someone that can consistently make an outside shot, but KU's guards don't seem to understand that doesn't have to be a 3-pt. shot!

In the past 3 games, teams have shown they can pack it inside and stop TRob from scoring and TT from driving to the bucket, so KU is going to need someone else (besides TT) to step up with outside shooting (and that doesn't need to be the same person every game).

Maybe its time to sacrifice a little defense and give Lindsay or Young a shot, or at least playing time, at the 3-spot in place of EJ and Teahan.

That could give KU a better rebounding line-up as a trade-off, HCBS laments that KU's guards only got 2 rebounds in the first ISU game and only 4 rebounds this game - - although that was a point of emphasis in this game and KU still got out-rebounded by a large margin.

I think this has much less to do with HCBS coaching at this point, versus some of the players just stepping up because I don't think there are a lot of things HCBS can change at this point with limited personnel.

I have faith that KU can still win the Big 12, but it will require another Hawk to step-up big time, like TR, EJ, CT, or someone else off the bench.

Rock Chalk...

jayhawkinATL 9 years, 2 months ago

Agreed that Mizzou has somewhat of an edge by having already played ISU, BU, and KSU on the road and came out 2-1. But I think that evens out a bit when Mizzou loses to UT tomorrow. Yep, you heard it here first!

mojayhawk 9 years, 2 months ago

Big Big lesson to be learned AGAIN from ISU. They outrebounded us both games because they got the long rebounds from long shots. Our guards have to crash and get some of the long caroms. Any team that shoots a lot of 3's can potentially give us the same problem. By the way, mizzou lives and dies by the 3. Coach Self spoke about the lack of grabbing long rebounds last week when he referred to the previous ISU game. You can bet he will come up with a solution to the long rebound.
Stay tuned!

Jack Hoover 9 years, 2 months ago

Well that was profound. Could you be a little more specific as to why you HATE Iowa State? Perhaps we need to have less fans there, tell them to stop cheering and ask our players to lay down and let you win. Is that what you want? Grow up. IB

Dave Cook 9 years, 2 months ago

because they won and celebrated by storming the court.. yea.. I'm a bitter fan..who care! :)

Rock Chalk 9 years, 2 months ago

They may even start selling DVD's of their win.

packywacky88 9 years, 2 months ago

Maybe they hang a banner in Hilton for this victory, they have one for everything else. At least this year they cut out the pregame video detailing ISU's storied BBall program.

I've been to every game the last 8 years, and I have a comment about "Hilton Magic." There needs to be a rule about the use of the sound system to keep the crowd in the game. ISU blasts the PA system louder than any place I've been to. I'm convinced that it is a major component the their "Magic." When it is only the crowd and the band making noise, it is quite lame. There is no comparison between AFH and Hilton. The atmosphere is pretty intense when ISU has momentum, but on my opinion, a large part of it is artificial.

Also, I've never seen fans (except for KSU) that have such a low B Ball IQ. They b*tch and moan about EVER SINGLE CALL that doesn't go their way. Quote of the game came from a dude that screamed at the top of his lungs all game: White traveled prior to charging into TRob. This "Idiot Out Walking Around" screams "that was a big-time move ref, don't you know what a big-time move looks like?" Not even stopping to think how the ref bailed him out from a foul. Guess you had to be there.

hotrodm 9 years, 2 months ago

Why not play a little 1-3-1 zone defense ? This would help keep Withey in closer for rebounds. Iowa State's game plan was for Royce White to stay outside in order to pull Withey out from under the basket. It worked. By pulling Withey outside that eliminated him as a shot blocker in the paint.

741hawk 9 years, 2 months ago

Why not play any zone . . . occasionally . . .as part of a strategic coaching methodology? I believe we have one of the best coaches in America. Wouldn't trade Bill for any other. BUT . . . I AM mystified by why is seemingly never employs a zone.

Brad Avery 9 years, 2 months ago

Free Throws. 34 attempts for them; 16 for KU. Unfortunately, this is the way KU often loses in the tournament against inferior teams. As long as the refs consistently let the opposing teams mug Robinson down low and our guards jack up the first open three of the possession without attempting to get to the hoop, there will be more days like yesterday.

There is also one little other fundamental KU ignored. The guards have to block out! ISU out-rebounded KU so badly because the guards did not block out the shooter and the off guard after a shot. We gave them multiple extra possessions. Reminded me painfully of the Northern Iowa game.

Nick Cole 9 years, 2 months ago

The refs didn't cost us this game. But to say they were excellent is stupidity on your part and suggests that you didn't watch the game. They called a number of tickey-tack fouls against KU yet let the same play go on the other end. Also, I can think of a few obvious fouls (a foul that gets called every game, every time, by every other officiating crew in the country) that should have gone against ISU that were not called.

Again, this is not why KU lost this game. We lost b/c ISU played their tails off and out hustled us in all aspects of the game and our players again failed to get the ball inside consistently. However, the refs were not good by any means. Not the reason we lost, but not good, and definitely not excellent as you claim.

REHawk 9 years, 2 months ago

Not to sound too much like a heretic, I hope, but it appears to me that Fred Hoiberg is on track to become a serious challenger to the Big 12 coaching supremacy of Bill Self. In only his second season at Iowa State, and as a head coach in Div. I play, he has put together a group of transfers which, in the first year of performance, have outplayed the Jayhawks in close to 30 of the 40 minutes of 2012 action. The zone change-up which he tossed at us for a few minutes in the second half yesterday appeared to thwart our surge and turn the tables. He appears to be doing a masterful job in working with a very talented player possessing an anxiety disorder, chiseling him into a steady competitor and candidate for Big 12 POY. Just with his penchant for recruiting castoffs from other programs, Hoiberg appears to have an innate knowledge for fitting the right pieces for winning hoops puzzles. If he spends a decade with the Cyclones, I look to see him rise to prominence as one of our most worthy competitors. I think Iowa State lured the right guy back home.

David Brown 9 years, 2 months ago

Agreed. Hoiberg will continue to grow as a coach and ISU's program will begin a climb upwards to bigger success, I believe. How much influence do you think his NBA experience has on his coaching style/decisions? From the small sample I've seen, he seems to be a quick thinking tactician. For my money, KU didn't lose the game so much as ISU won it. Tough games ahead (for all Big 12 teams) will show us what we're made of. Go Hawks!

lincase 9 years, 2 months ago

The ESPN announcers certainly agreed with you. They couldn't say enough about him.

Robert Brock 9 years, 2 months ago

Meh. Unless we stockpile more talent and a bench with some substance...expect more losses at Hilton.

Ken Sedgwick 9 years, 2 months ago

I am not disappointed in the loss. I am disturbed why they lossed. [ ref. ict316 ]

Ron Franklin 9 years, 2 months ago

court rushing is embarrassing for anything less than a championship.

SDSurferFan 9 years, 2 months ago

I witnessed two I didn't want to yesterday.

SDSurferFan 9 years, 2 months ago

General comment- very difficult to beat a conf team 2x. Especially a good team who tourney hopes are on the line and it is their biggest game of the home.

Ku will steal 1-2 vs Baylor/K st/Mizzzou.

Ron Franklin 9 years, 2 months ago

Conner Teahan is killing this team (considering he is supposed to be a specialist)

8-32 from three since big 12 started. 25%

6 of his last 29 20%

Now people aren't even going to guard the guy.

The only place he can get a shot off is in that corner, and that corner is a bad spot for him apparently. He cannot create for himself at all. If he is not completely squared with his feet set, he has no chance, so he can't catch and shoot out on the wings because defenders are closing in on him too quickly.

Did anybody notice toward the end of the game when Iowa St knew exactly where Conner would be setting up for the three? The defender stole the pass because Bill's plays for Conner are so limited that they are becoming predictable.

At this point, I would rather lose with Nadiir on the court than Conner.

Ben Kane 9 years, 2 months ago

a few points:

  1. we really found out yesterday how thin our bench can be which kills us when we are in foul trouble.

  2. i think isu just matches up very badly for us. I give them props for the win yesterday, they earned it.

  3. we must win at least 1 of @ ksu @ baylor and @ mizery, I think we will win 2.

  4. i've seen self long enough to know that 3han's role will not diminish the rest of this year so he's got to start hitting, end of story.

Robert Murphy 9 years, 2 months ago

Self would bring back Christian Moody if he could. Blind spot?

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 2 months ago

I think we split w/Baylor and MU but take both against KSU.

Jack Wilson 9 years, 2 months ago

Some really good posts above. The loss yesterday is nothing to be ashamed of. But it does foretell some other possible bumps in the road.

Let's narrow yesterday down to one thing, just for consideration. We have a player that can score, that can drive, has an excellent midrange game, that can get to the rim, who can finish, who can pass on the drive .. yet he does literally none of that.

He stands on the perimeter. Like a second class citizen. Passive. Not wanting to rock the boat. Calmly passing the ball over and over, back and forth.

He watches Teahan clang threes. He watches the big guys get doubled.

His defender shades the entry pass. His defender overplays the reversal. At times, his defender sags and leaves space for a touch of creativity. Yet nothing.

Travis Releford. If he doesn't bring it on the offensive end, we have plateaued.

The guy has got to bring it offensively.

SDSurferFan 9 years, 2 months ago

Good pt. Take out Trob and the past 4 games of TT and he is the only player that is consistent.

I am sure this goes without saying but Teeclank is getting old. Sorry to go Bob Knight, but throw in a shot fake. Be a basketball player.

Robert Murphy 9 years, 2 months ago

Don't be sorry, Bob Knight was one of college basketballs greatest coaches.

Steve Brown 9 years, 2 months ago

14-4 shares conference title, so we found one of our four, big deal.

This was never going to be a 35-3 year, we are rebuilding yet challenging for trophy, enjoy the ride.

I like games like this before playing MU it gives us focus and stuff to work on.

Storm the court: everytime we get beat we expect and take pride they storm the court. Sign of respect for us. Yet we NEVER storm AFH. no win is unexpected no matter what, we do not storm the court.

rwhawk 9 years, 2 months ago

I'll say it and be hated for it, but I think that this loss ensures Missouri a Big Xii title. They've played their toughest schedule and ours has just begun. I think this team's best chance now is to at least share, but that's going to mean 2 of 3 outstanding road games and taking care of business elsewhere. And for those that think I'm in the sky falling camp, I'm not, I've felt that this game was that important for this reason even before yesterday.

An MU friend of mine sent me a text yesterday...they smell blood and are feeling really good about their chances after yesterday.

Kye Clark 9 years, 2 months ago

I don't hate you for it. The remaining schedules may indeed give Misery the upper hand. However, you say they've played their toughest schedule...they haven't played us yet. I have no idea how those games will go, how we'll match-up with them, but we are their biggest hurdle, and until they get a win against us I still say we are in the driver's seat.

And they did win a tough game at Baylor, but I'm not conceding Baylor losing at their place. Baylor is still the team that scares me the most, because they have the most talent.

rwhawk 9 years, 2 months ago

Your right. I guess I was removing the KU v. MU games when thinking about our schedules because while they still have us twice...we still have them twice, so it seems to even that out. If we sweep, my above post will be dead wrong obviously. But I think we'll split.

Benjamin Piehler 9 years, 2 months ago

Eh. It's not like Mizzou won convincingly in Ames... Or Waco for that matter.

rwhawk 9 years, 2 months ago

That's like saying we didn't win convincingly against A&M and TX and that somehow means something. We won, they won, and at the end of the day W-L is what earns the title.

JayHawkFanToo 9 years, 2 months ago

rwhawk, The toughest portion of the schedule is not necessarily when you play the better teams, but when you play the teams that match up well against you. Obviously ISU matches well with KU; however, this does not mean that ISU is the better team. How well does MU match against KU? I believe it depends on how well our guard box out the MU guards, who make a living getting long rebounds. KSU and OSU controlled the rebounding and had no problem with MU; hopefully we can do likewise.

rwhawk 9 years, 2 months ago

Good point. Its hard to know until we play them because they are so different this year. By the way, I've wondered if JayHawkFan was taken when you chose your name?

oregonjhawk 9 years, 2 months ago

We only hate you for having "an MU friend".

Bion Ostrander 9 years, 2 months ago

Many of you hate on ISU instead of realizing they exposed, outcoached, and outplayed KU yesterday, it is what it is - - now lets hope this serves as "another" wake up call for KU.

And who cares if ISU stormed the court, its college, let kids have fun... I can almost guarantee you that KU's football goals will come down when Weis gets his first big upset! KU is not above that either, and why is that a problem.

Maybe we should outlaw the newspapers KU tears up after every introduction of the opposing team, that is sort of old, not in great taste, and seems sophomoric...but its fun for the who cares.

If you watch almost any game, you can see that KU's guards have been horrible all year at boxing out. Hard to believe that "high school fundamental" has not been cured yet despite Self's emphasis - - but what is Self going to do, its not like he has competition for the positions.

Self will always play a kid whose defense is better than his offense, but its hard to believe KU has no other consistent outside shooting threat than TT.

Instead of reducing the minutes from the bench in the past 2 games which has not helped, why not see what Lindsay and Young can do at the 2-3 spots with more minutes. I agree that Young missed some shots yesterday, but its difficult to get some consistency off the bench knowing you are only going to get 7 or 8 minutes.

I really thought Releford would be the X factor this year and be the difference, he comes and goes on offense, but has established a good defensive presence and has his role

At this time of the year, I give my biggest disappointment award to EJ, I think he hurts more than helps at his stage. He had several bad turnovers in key moments yesterday, including the bad lob to a wide open Withey that clanged high and hard off the backboard.

I'm not that impressed with his defense and all he does is shoot spot up 3-pointers, and he is very bad at that, 26%. When is the last time he caught a backside lob for a dunk, which he was pretty good at last year. He never drives to the bucket any more.

I am firmly convinced that to win the NCAA tournament now, you need at least 2 versatile guards that can dribble-drive to the bucket and can pull up off the dribble for consistent 2-point shots in the 10 -18 foot range - - and not just have have spot up 3-point shooters firing beyond the arc (Morningstar, Reed, Henry, EJ, Teahan,...etc).

For example, see KU's 2008 championship team where Chalmers, Rush, and Collins could all dribble drive and pull up for 2-pointers.

KU's old recipe of relying on spot up 3 point shooters wins the Big 12 with superior talent each year, but I'm not convinced it consistently wins NCAA tourney games.

And this year, KU doesn't even have consistent spot up 3-point shooters.

Lets hope the ship gets righted in the next few weeks on the road against Mizzou, Baylor, and KSU.

Ron Franklin 9 years, 2 months ago

Court storming is potentially dangerous for innocent bystanders. Shredding newspapers is not.

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 2 months ago

"Self will always play a kid whose defense is better than his offense"

Then Conner should NEVER be on the court. No defense and a suspect 3 point shot...I don't know why he is on the court. EJ is almost as bad.. I think HCBS has beat out any confidence he might have had. Hell, EJ should've started last year.. No wonder he looks lost at times on the court. his 1st two years, he was delegated to mop up minutes.

Steve Brown 9 years, 2 months ago

I don't mind other teams storming the court as a sign of respect to us. However, I don'e want our kids seeing it and then the day come that we are unranked and upset a #1 and the rule is: keep your seats, wave the wheat.

Hope we don't tear down goal post for Football. Win like you been there before, whether we have or not.

Dyrk Dugan 9 years, 2 months ago

ISU IS a bad matchup for took Tyshawn scoring 28 for us to win at AFH....but this team now needs to focus in on what wins us games.

TRob has to play...and bring it every night. he's digressing. Since his great Baylor game, he really has not played well. he needs to carry definite stretches...each and every game. if he does not, then this will continue to happen. is that fair to the kid? probably not, but it is what it is.

Teahan should not be relied upon. he's totally gravy, his production...and now that we're relying on him, he can't handle it. it's not on Teahan.....he's never been "the man" before....but he has simply lost it. will he get it back? unknown, because he's never been in this situation. but the quicker we dismiss him as a needed contributor, the better.

Reality may have set in. i predicted long ago, that 13-5 would be a good league record for this team....and 11-7 would not be out of the realm of possibility. the league is worse than i thought it was....and right now, 13-5 would seem to be the floor mark...not the ceiling. However, losing at MU and BU (KSU not so much....we're a very bad matchup for them) would seem to be the more likely scenario...and then you just throw in another loss somewhere....and it's 14-4 now...which still is a good mark. We have no bench folks.....and at the moment, TRob and Tyshawn can't sustain carrying this team. Somebody else, each and every night, has to start getting it done....whether it's scoring, or on D, or rebounding.....somebody else has to step up..and the collective wall, seems to have been hit.

all of this being said.......Missouri smelling blood? i hope so, because it will be an absolute dogfight in six days. we are playing our last game ever in Columbia MO...that will be as close to a war as you can on the bball court. i don't care what the standings are, or the previous games results. we should be very tough to handle that day...and we're a tough matchup for them anyway. we'll bother Radcliffe, and we should be able to score on them at will.....key word, SHOULD be. i just know it will be a lot of fun on Saturday.

as far as the big picture goes, HCBS will figure it out. he'll get the most out of his guys that he can....that we KNOW will happen. whenever KU loses, the sky is falling...but it's still my mantra....Go Jayhawks!

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 2 months ago

I doubt UM is smelling blood..they lost to a not very good OSU team last week. As for 'bad match-ups', I don't buy it. We were out-hustled, 62% on only 16 FTs, (could have been more if we made the first) and our bench scored 5 points total. If we played to our ability instead of to theirs...we win every time.

nighthawking 9 years, 2 months ago

Bill Self got out coached more than anything. Just sayin...

bradynsdad 9 years, 2 months ago

That's really a dumb saying. He got out coached? Iowa state players won and ku players lost. Self cannot play the game for the players. They are given every tool by the best coaching staff in the country. It's up to players to execute. "self got out coached". Just stupid.

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 2 months ago

You're right bradynsdad. I don't even know why Self attends the game.

Michael Luby 9 years, 2 months ago

Im betting we will go 13-5 in conference play

bradynsdad 9 years, 2 months ago

I am curious if e.j. and naadirs play is pushing self to go all in on shabazz?

REHawk 9 years, 2 months ago

With Kruger and Gillispie signing league contracts, and Huggins returning, Hoiberg and these guys will create much more strength for our league, and will produce terrific challenges, esp. after they write their own gamebooks to cope with Bill Self's defensive genius. Playing everyone twice, the Jayhawks are not likely to dominate the league so handily as in a few of these past 7 consecutive title runs. Throughout the remainder of this season through next, we are in for a real dogfight, week to week in January and February. Gillispie has leaped into a halcyon situation enroute to building some more typhoons to swoop into AFH in coming years; but these guys are savvy schemers who will quickly piece together winning programs. I would not in the least be surprised to see ties for the Big 12 crown in the majority of upcoming seasons.
Two very successful recruiters, Scott Drew and Rick Barnes, must be shaking in their tennies, considering the torment of trying to lure even more highly ranked recruits to try to compete with Bill Self and these guys. Can they unearth enough Durants, Augustines, T.J. Fords, L. Aldridges to help them retain their tenures?

SuperheatedRecords 9 years, 2 months ago

Easy, tell this team to stop jacking up threes. Bench Teahan, he isnt driving, he isnt making the shots and that turnover yesterday swinging it was horrible.
KY should be first off the bench, he has by far the most upside. I say play Merv Lindsey before teahan or tharpe. He I think has some hidden talent and might be able to contribute. Its not to late to give him some time and develop him. KY will get better with time, he just needs more time and at least he has some size quickness, athleticism and passes good.

Tell, teahan and EJ that they better start taking it to the hole. I mean, EJ is one of the fasted kids on the court. Whats the aversion to driving and dishing? Teahan shot us out of the game...

Priest Fontaine 9 years, 2 months ago

I agree with KY being first off the bench. Would also prefer to go with a smaller lineup with Tharp rather than Teahan.

Justin Diederich 9 years, 2 months ago

I agree with superheated. We should campaign for Merv. I think the kid is very athletic and has a decent shooting touch from outside. He can't be worse than Connor on the defensive end! No matter what Self and Co. will win the League. Wright it down!

Lacy Mohler 9 years, 2 months ago

This KU team reminds me of a Mid-Major (like Missouri Valley) who really clicks for the NCAA tournament and knocks a top-rated team like Kansas out.

The more tough road games the Hawks play the more experienced they get. The rest of the season will be interesting.

I'm with someone who posted putting Tharp in with EJ and Tyshawn might be interesting--and don't yank him at the first mistake. Give him a chance.

Bion Ostrander 9 years, 2 months ago

I agree with an earlier post, KU needs to try some zone this year at times. I know HCBS is old school, likes the macho man to man,and says "try and beat us at our game", but we just don't have the studs this year.

More than ever, some zone makes sense this year, with lack of depth for the bigs, when TRob and Withey get in foul trouble like yesterday, plus it gives the bigs a little bit of a rest, they are playing too many minutes lately. And it might have impeded Royce White from dribbling the ball to the hole on Withey.

HCBS might have to figure out a new way to win this year, change it up, to fit the lack of personnel this year.

KU does not remind me of a Mid Major per jkanderson, at present I don't see any KU player capable of catching fire from the outside and carrying the team in the tourney.

Also, I don't believe that playing a tougher schedule correlates to advancing in the NCAA tourney (although I also don't think you can play the complete opposite cream puff schedule and be successful). If you believe in that, then you have to assume that all those Mid Majors that beat KU (VCU, Northern Illinois, Bradley, and Buckell) all played tougher schedules than KU - - that just ain't true!

I hope both KU players and coaches have a few more tricks up their sleeves. But the truth is that some additional player (or different players each week) needs to step up and start consistently making outside shots so teams can't pack it in and keep TRob from scoring and keep TT from driving the ball.

Its not difficult to scheme for KU, and so far KU does not have an answer to recent teams packing it inside.

Per a prior post, I would love for Shabazz to come to KU, but it just won't happen.

Everyone knows KU plays the high/low with a focus on bigs scoring and with balanced scoring. KU's offense is not intended to promote dribbling/penetrating guards like Shabazz who (I hate to admit) do much better in Calipari's pro offense that features isolation, one-on-one, and has no problem featuring a high scoring guard.

kranny 9 years, 2 months ago

The issue with this team is the lack of bench play and 3 point shooting. As mentioned in an earlier article, KU gets only 4 points from the bench, Teahan goes 1-6 from 3 and Young is the only other bench scorer with 2 points. TRobb continues to get double teamed and KU misses crucial 3 point shots when needed. Teahan had better get them to start falling otherwise he is simply a liability because he defense isn't very good. Elijah Johnson needs to step it up also. His ball handling isn't very good and he needs at least 4 threes a game to open up the inside. I'd like to see the boys penetrate a little more and get to the foul line.

Jeeveshawk 9 years, 2 months ago

Good game Cyclones. I do hate it when people storm the court. K-State does it, Mizzou does it, UK probably did it when they were terrible a few years back. KU has never stormed the court that I can recall (in basketball). Our football fans are no better than the Iowa State fans who are never quite sure what is going on and who storm the court even on an anticipated win.

The one bright spot about this loss is that we will drop in the rankings (that's a good thing) and we will not be placed as a 1 seed in Joe Lunardi's bracket prediction, but we unfortunately will be picked to as a one seed in the Big dance. Reason being that after we beat Baylor in Waco, and shatter Missouri twice, we will have an extremely impressive resume, with only 4-5 losses with a schedule including: Kentucky, Georgetown, Duke, Ohio State, Long Beach State, Kansas State, Baylor, Iowa State, and Missouri. The three teams that have a chance to surpass us on paper are: Syracuse (weaker schedule but better record and more overrated), Kentucky (probably best team in country, and they beat us) and Duke, who although soft and would undoubtedly lose to us in a rematch, beat us earlier this season.

Could Baylor recive a higher seed than us?: no, we beat them once and we will easily do it agian. Could Ohio State?: no, similar record and they lost to us. Could North Carolina?: no, they are terrible. Could Murray State?: no, their schedule is far to weak for them to be anywhere above a low 2 seed, and that is a major stretch for them.

So it looks like we will once again be cursed with the dubbing of a #1 seed. The one possible remmedy for this is that all the midmajors are recieving so much attention now: Shockers, Blue Jays, Murray State.... so a midmajor loss seems less likely than it has in passed years.

KU_Hawk35 9 years, 2 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Martin Rosenblum 9 years, 2 months ago

The box score link on this page indicates KU vs.Texas, but it really is the KU vs ISU stats.

KPOP 9 years, 2 months ago

as ugly as that game was for KU fans to watch, we were in the game at the end. Iowa State hit some buckets late and drive a dagger thru our hearts. Iowa State is a much improved team from last year, but I doubt they will win many more games this season where they win in the last minute by making shots. Hold you head up, its a long season, I am guessing BIll Self has the boys right where he wants them. Losing a game going into the toughest 5 game stretch of the season (3 on the road), might prove to be a good thing. only time will tell. RCJHGKU

REHawk 9 years, 2 months ago

I would much rather lose this one than the upcoming Battle at The Paige Saturday. If we do, indeed, lose multiple league games, we must hold Mizzou and Baylor at bay. A dandy recent KC Star article about the Jayhawk/Tiger War, and memories which will long linger from this last pair of battles. Essential that we win at least one of those, esp. the last one at AFH. Gotta keep a grip on our spirits, as this is bound to be a very taxing month on all concerned. Rock Chalk!

Bion Ostrander 9 years, 2 months ago

I want what Jeeveshawk is smoking!

Truthfully, I would prefer that KU not be a #1 seed this year, that usually doesn't end well. I think basketball across the nation is down this year, so I see less importance of being a #1 seed this year.

Let KU do the hunting, instead of being the hunted this year!!!!

And yes, sorry to burst your bubble Jeeves, but KU will lose another game this year, or 2, or 3.

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