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Big 12 Conference

Sunday, January 15, 2012

Cyclones find positives in close loss


The frustration was evident, but there were no tears in the Iowa State locker room following ISU’s 82-73 loss to No. 10 Kansas University on Saturday at Allen Fieldhouse.

Three days after nearly gutting out a victory at home against No. 9 Missouri, the Cyclones controlled Saturday’s game most of the way, but fell victim to one of those signature KU runs and walked away wondering what happened.

“It’s frustrating, sure, but you try to look at the positives,” said ISU sophomore Royce White, who led the Cyclones with 18 points and 17 rebounds in 28 minutes. “If Missouri’s 9 and Kansas is 10, we might be 11 or 12.”

After trailing 7-6 early on, Iowa State played from ahead until the 10:22 mark of the second half, when a bucket by KU’s Kevin Young put the Jayhawks in front, 63-61. Once Kansas got in front again, the Cyclones never were able to recover, and the final nine minutes looked a lot like the 12 games in the series that preceded this one.

The Jayhawks have won 13 straight games against the Cyclones. ISU’s last victory against KU came in 2005 — in Allen Fieldhouse, no less — and many Cyclones sensed that Saturday would be the day the streak would end.

“There are a lot of variables in a basketball game,” White said. “They’re one of the best teams in the country, and we knew they were gonna make a run. This is one of the hardest places to play, and as soon as they start to make their run, that crowd gets into it, and that was tough for us.”

Added ISU coach Fred Hoiberg: “The big thing we talked about is getting off to a good start. They come out of that locker room, and in the first five minutes it sometimes feels like they have six players on the floor.”

Early, the Cyclones did more than keep the KU crowd quiet. In jumping to a 17-7 lead, the Cyclones hit three three-pointers and played with the kind of swagger rarely seen from a visiting team in Allen Fieldhouse.

ISU built a lead of as many as 11 in the first half and led by nine four times and 10 four times.

“We went to a new offense, and I’m sure they hadn’t scouted it because this was our first game running it,” White said. “We had a five-out, nobody-in motion, and the whole point of it is just to keep the spacing real wide and high and leave lanes, and I think we did a pretty good job with it the whole game. We missed some shots that we normally make (down the stretch), but it’s a big-time venue. You can’t blame people for missing shots.”

After leading by three at halftime, the Cyclones pushed their lead to double digits — 50-40 — with a 7-0 run to start the second 20 minutes. Behind a stellar second half from senior guard Tyshawn Taylor and some serious toughness from center Jeff Withey, Kansas responded with a 30-11 run that put the Cyclones away.

White was more than willing to give Taylor credit for his big night, but also said the Cyclones’ emphasis on KU big man Thomas Robinson may have cost them.

“We knew he was their biggest threat coming in, and we wanted to try to contain him as much as possible,” White said of Robinson. “That’s how somebody like Tyshawn ends up getting 28. You worry so much about (Robinson), and someone else gets loose and has the opportunity to hit some big-time shots.”

Although the loss dropped ISU to 12-5 overall and 2-2 in Big 12 play, White said the team would build from the setback.

“We’re still growing as a team,” he said. “This is still our first (17) games together. We’ll get it.”

Asked if he was looking forward to another shot at the Jayhawks — Jan. 28, in Ames, Iowa — White smiled.

“Oh yeah,” he said. “You gotta look forward to that. When you’re a competitor and you basically had the game in your favor the whole time, you definitely look forward to a chance to get ’em back at your house.”


Ferd Magellan 6 years, 5 months ago

“If Missouri’s 9 and Kansas is 10, we might be 11 or 12.”

It doesn't work that way, pal. He appears to be a great talent, but I haven't seen a player whine like him since Jason Bennett.

actorman 6 years, 5 months ago

That seems like a pretty harsh reaction to me. I didn't think he said anything that sounded whiny. He was frustrated and talked about how they had an opportunity to win but couldn't quite pull it out. And he was looking forward to the rematch. What exactly is whiny about that?

mattiesdad 6 years, 5 months ago

Watch how he played in the game. His whining took him out of the game, literally and mentally. Reminded me a bit of Kelly Thames-level whining. His attitude hurt his team; no question.

Jeremy Paul 6 years, 5 months ago

Kelly Thames--wow, thanks for bringing up a hated name from the past. Goodness, he was right up there with Sutherland and Grimm on the douche list.

hawk316 6 years, 5 months ago

I didn't sense any whining, either.

I will say that Iowa State definitely impressed me. They can shoot the basketball, and they play hard. We will have our work cut out for us in Ames.

jaybate 6 years, 5 months ago

Fred pulled out all the stops with a new offense.

Bill knows Fred outsmarted him with that new offense.

Bill knows TT won the game, but wishes TT could have found a better way.

Why? Because...

28 points on 21 shots is horribly inefficient scoring.

And other coaches of serious contenders that saw the ISU-KU game now have blue print for how to beat KU.

Deny the post feed to TRob.

Guard the wings tight, funnel baseline, and switch off on the wing penetration over the top, so you deny the wings and you keep lane clogged, when the ball reverses to TT.

Leave TT open for reversal to him at the point.

Force him to beat you driving into a clogged lane.

Self looked grim in the handshake line, because Fred undresses and exposed the Achilles Heel of Self's scheme this season...and its only two weeks into the conference.

Self knows he gambled and won sending his team out flat for ISU, so he can amp them way up for Baylor.

But he also knows Fred exposed him for Scott Drew, would never have figured it out on his own.

Anyone with Top Twenty talent can outscore KU, if they can reduce KU to Tyshawn getting 28 on 21 shots.

Houston, we have a problem.

And Bill Self's got some tough choices about standing pat, or rescheming, in the very short time before taking the floor against Baylor.

jayhawker_97 6 years, 5 months ago

good one, that has been a problem all year, though. but you know what, i don't mind if somebody, even a PG took that many shots to win us a game. kind of like what Royce said, they're prepared to beat TRob down low, but can't do much if it's TT that's got hot hands or EJ. so, those other guys (besides TT) need to be involved in shooting (well) from now on. our 3s can be better. i wish the team tons of good luck. i'm very happy to see their performance, their guts - kept fighting and fighting till the end against ISU. rock chalk!

jaybate 6 years, 5 months ago

I don't mind either, if it buys a win. But it won't against good competition; that is what Self is implying tactfully.

actorman 6 years, 5 months ago

He was 10 for 21 to score those 28 points. How exactly is that inefficient?

jaybate 6 years, 5 months ago

10/21 < .50.

An efficient big will get you .55 to .60 plus the FTs, on a good game. .50 to .55 plus FTs on an average game.

This is why you never want your perimeter guys with more than 15 FGAs max, unless they are named Oscar, MJ, Magic, etc., or they are being left alone, like Travis was the other night.

Offences tend not to max their efficiency without the bigs getting their touches.

KU had a close game, because Thomas couldn't get his touches and Jeff was slow to get untracked.

TT had to step in, but it's never a desirable situation, and a PG really should have gotten TRob some touches, even so. TT understands that Hoiberg set him up a bit, and so TT won't fall for that ruse again.

Thanks for asking.

utahjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Come on jaybate, "horribly" inefficient - that's hyperbole. His effic was barely less than 50%. The bigger problem is the lack of other legitimate scoring threats, on a day where Teahan and Young were off and EJ has relegated himself to a 3pt only specialist.

dylans 6 years, 5 months ago

Unfortunately, his long range shooting hasn't been that special.

jaybate 6 years, 5 months ago

You are right. What I should have said was he kicked ass down the stretch, but by failing to get the bigs the touches they need, the team offense was not efficient enough to beat handily a decisively inferior team. My apologies for over emphasizing the negative. Now, can you see my point, as well?

Steve Yeakel 6 years, 5 months ago

I think that Baylor runs their zone all the time, like Syracuse, so cannot run a man defensive scheme. For the future, if you have spotted a problem, Bill will adjust to it, has time to adjust to it. Withey hurt them yesterday when left open, Kevin Young can do that too.

dylans 6 years, 5 months ago

Baylor is using a man defense this year also.

refugee 6 years, 5 months ago

Thats so amazingly insightful! I bet not one coach in all of college hoops has ever considered trying to deny Robinson the ball. Wow! Pure genius! I can't believe that Jaybate and The Mayor aren't both currently reviewing offers from T Boone Pickens to take over at OSU. You should have your own column Jaybate. That's award winning stuff...

kkoenig 6 years, 5 months ago

yep. it was Baylor's switch to man-to-man that finished K-State last week.

SCCy 6 years, 5 months ago

Are you suggesting Self purposely sent his team out flat and unprepared to play ISU?

Steve Quatrocky 6 years, 5 months ago

I appreciate your opinion, but this particular post is pretty glass half empty in my opinion and has one big hole in it. TRob was on the bench for the 20-4 run in the second half that reversed the lead. Your analysis reflects the ugly first half, but not the decisive stretch of the game.

You're giving TRob too much credit and not enough to either Ty or Jeff. They both stepped up when they were really needed and it should boost their confidence, that they dont have to have TRob playing on all cylinders, to score or lock down on D. They just proved he doesnt even have to be on the floor. Ty and Jeff were rolling so well that Bill kept him there to not break the flow when Iowa State was on its heels. Not cutting on TRob in anyway but Ty and Jeff deserve the credit, it was impressive. Trav and Kev and Conner, did their parts too, the defense they played in the 20-4 stretch required all 5 out of 5 getting the defensive job done and Kev finished the assists he was getting from Tyshawn.

Bill is trying to not so tactfully send the message, you did a great job Ty but dont get a big head, your first half was pretty miserable, your second half was pretty good but why dont you play like that all the time? He and Jeff took over the game for that 10 minute stretch, he was contesting every pass on D and effecting every play even when he didnt get a steal (I think 3 of his 4 came as part of the 20-4 run) and Withey was swatting anything that was put up in the lane, another message Bill has been trying to drill thru Withey's head, to play like a seven footer.

Your selling Bill Self way short too, his W-L record speaks for itself, not to mention how much this team has improved since the KY game. He told the Jayhawk nation to enjoy the process this year even if the goal is still to win an Eighth Straight Conference Championship. Your analysis is entertaining but I trust Bill.

jayhawker_97 6 years, 5 months ago

on another note, this ISU team looked so good. almost everybody chipped in shooting, rebounding. they'll get better. i wished they didn't lose to Misery, though. Royce looked like a polished player. big body like that can spin move and finish to the rim - that's impressive. but too bad, he'll have to work harder around the beasty Withey. nice game, guys.

actorman 6 years, 5 months ago

Was anyone else shocked by the fact that KU was a 15 1/2-point favorite in this game? I've never bet against KU, but if I'd been in a casino I would have seriously considered taking ISU with the spread. I couldn't believe it was that high.

jaybate 6 years, 5 months ago

Good point. Always remember: the spreads are about shearing suckers with probabilities.

Chris Shaw 6 years, 5 months ago

Actorman, I don't bet on games, but I had a poker tournament at my house yesterday with 27 guys for the NFL playoffs and one of the guys noticed all my Jayhawk pictures and he asked me what I thought about the Iowa State/Kansas game.

I told him that I liked Kansas. He said, no, who do you think? I said, what's the spread? He said 15.5 and I said really? I would take Iowa State as a "Lock". He took Iowa State!

He said he was taking Iowa State at halftime and I asked how many points he was getting and he said 10. I said, I don't like it! I told him KU is down 3 in Allen Fieldhouse and Bill Self is lighting up their ass right now at halftime. I told him KU was going to win by 8. :)

To end the story, about 4 hours later, that guy came up to me and gave me $400 for the advice and hosting for the playoffs and poker. I have no idea how much he put on the game, but it must have been a lot.

Tony Bandle 6 years, 5 months ago

People actually bet on college basketball.....oh my!!!

Steve Corder 6 years, 5 months ago

Baylor appears to be the class of the league this year. The Jayhawks must hold their home court or this race to the championship may have to wait till next year.

Whithey has the potential to make the difference in the Baylor game.

I like the whipping Baylor put on OSU just before coming to AF. Either they're so talented that they whip us too, or they'll have read too much press about how talented they are and be ripe for a take-down Monday night.

Either way, we will be in the tournament, where anything can happen to a good team that gets hot and has some bracket upsets to match. Remember 1988.

Chris Shaw 6 years, 5 months ago

Yeah, that 88 team lost 4 straight conferenc games. That's what scares me about that 4 game stretch from Feb 4th to Feb 18th. at K-State, at Baylor, Okie State, and at Mizzou. Not sure of the order but something like that.

Clarence Haynes 6 years, 5 months ago

To limit the production of Baylor's bigs, our guards are going to have to shut down their guards. We also have to hit free throws tomorrow night and we need to get quality time from Tehan, Young, and Wesley.

AsadZ 6 years, 5 months ago

I had posted couple of time last week that this Iowa State team is dangerous and this could be a trap game for KU. They have several pieces and can score from many places. I would not be surprised if they are in top 25 shortly. They will most likely be 5th Big 12 team in the Big dance this year.

xfitter 6 years, 5 months ago

JayBate sucks, dude you're creepy the way you act like you're in every coaches head. Worst couch coach ever!

Jim Roth 6 years, 5 months ago

He’s having fun. There’s no harm in it. He doesn’t berate anyone, isn’t nasty, isn’t offensive. He often has good insight. It’s just dressed up in creative cleverness. Sometimes you have to think to figure out what he means, and some people don’t like to think. If you don’t like it (or don’t have time), don’t read it.

Sometimes I don’t agree with his view, and often I don’t have time to wade through it to decipher his meaning. But I like the fact that he’s out there, having fun with words, entertaining himself as well as the rest of us (or more so in your case). If I have a chance or need a break, most days I know I can find both insight and entertainment in Jaybate’s comments – which is the whole point of reading sports articles anyway.

Ken Sedgwick 6 years, 5 months ago

tundrahok gets it. If everyone heeded criticism, there would be no reason for a comment section.

jaybate 6 years, 5 months ago

"An Archaelogy of the Beats"

For xbitter...

Let's explore that vacuum tube sticking out of your collar the one you probably call a head but which your boss would probably rate a 15 watt energy saver, if he/she ever spent more than a second a month thinking about moving screens.

You use the word suck without understanding its meaning and you don't like Crest.

You write to me as if you were a slug laying slime trails at an indolence festival and I still resist The News Hour without Robin.

All I want to do is chat ball and make light of your xbitter mind still trapped in box cutter conspiracies and Lemon Pledge.

Is this so bad?

Is it wrong that rigatoni makes small inroads on spaghetti and Devo never became as big as Lady Gaga, though Justin Bieber did?

Do we really care that Allen Ginsberg stole Charles Olson's thunder and drove it through a Wichita Vortex Sutra?

Are we not all telemetry dogs now?

Are we not all hyperpolysyllabic-loving sesquepdalians under our supercalifragilistic aliases that we keep, even if, like you, we appear to utter mere grunts of hate and requests for better fitting tongue depressors?

Wasn't Lao Tse right when he copped to there being nothing to fear but those that want to run the world and practice coprophagy with chop sticks?

And whatever became of Unguentine for your sores?

Wampeter of a dry alias in a cold season among persistent turnovers.

Re-dig it!

ohmixmaster 6 years, 5 months ago

I happen to enjoy Jaybate's creative writing that comes from an insightful point of view. He knows his stuff and shares it with us in an often entertaining fashion. I'm curious as to how this equates to "worst couch coach coach ever" in your mind?

John Strayer 6 years, 5 months ago

not all of TT's shots were from the outside. Shooting just below 50% from the outside isn't that bad. However, how may of TT's misses were lay-ups for God's sake. That is what can't be tolerated. And it wasn't just TT missing lay-ups...the bigs missed plenty of "bunnies" too. ISU's defense must have messed with the Jayhawks minds or something.

Regardless...I see them being more than ready for Monday evening....maybe KU was looking past ISU?

ccarp 6 years, 5 months ago

Thanks for the tough competition, ISU. Good to get up for one before Baylor coming to town. Mondays game is big for taking a home game against a conference contender. Let's get it done against Baylor, Hawks! Rock Chalk!

Bion Ostrander 6 years, 5 months ago

jaybate, I agree, and I have been making even a stronger point since early in the season. This is not a typical HCBS high-low team (after Withey or TRob goes out, the high-low sort of disappears or is ineffective because KU does not have the depth to run that offense). So I do think Self should diversify the offense and put in some new wrinkles.

KU won't win many games this year with TRob on the bench that long, and the combination of Withey and TT won't save the day that often, especially against better teams.

I love HCBS and would not trade him for anyone, but although he criticizes the 21 shots by TT and notes that TRob did not get any touches the 2nd half - - he is the coach, he should be the one making sure that does not happen. He had an entire 2nd half to correct that situation and apparently did not, so why complain about it, this one was on coach.

I understand it worked this game and KU needs TT and Withey to gain confidence from this experience, but this team has hoisted up a lot of missed 3-pointers in a lot of games this year and have proven they are not a good 3-point shooting team. I don't know why this continues, and why TRob does not touch the ball almost every offensive set (as Self claimed that he should earlier in the year).

It is very unusual for a team this late in the season to still be trying to figure out their identify, but I think HCBS will get this going the right direction...and just maybe this team has no identify (except to win however possible game to game)!!

dylans 6 years, 5 months ago

KU runs over 1,000 plays how many more do they need? Self said in an interview recently that the play book is around 1,600 plays. I'm sure most of the plays are just slight variations, but that is still plenty. How many do you think are inbounds plays?

jaybate 6 years, 5 months ago

1600 plays?

Maybe these guys ought be being granted doctorates of basketball.

There aren't 1600 positions in the Kama Sutra!

Newt Gingrich can't even think of 1600 lies!

Lady Gaga can't think of 1600 hats!

Charlie Weiss can't think of 1600 Notre Dame assistants to hire!

Bernadette Grey-Little can't think of 1600 schools to bring into the Big 12!

Neocons can't think of 1600 regimes to change!

Helicopter Ben can't think of 1600 investment bankers to give untraceable bailouts to!

1600 plays? In a basketball play book?

Hell, these guys ought to get a stipend of at least $2 per play they have to learn!

REHawk 6 years, 5 months ago

White is a bright kid. I enjoyed reading his postgame comments, esp. the revelation regarding the Iowa State gameplan. Kudos to the Allen Fieldhouse crowd which created the level of pandemonium needed to stir a sense of love for TT and a sense of smothering confusion for the Cyclones in the last fifteen minutes yesterday. The total Jayhawk surge was exhilarating, even for televiewers. A somewhat disturbing league win, but, hey, we are 4-0. And we know that sometimes we can surge without Thomas on the floor.

Jeff Coffman 6 years, 5 months ago

ISU made eight 3-pointers in the first half and only one in the second half.

That was the difference in the game, you can't convince me it was something else.

We scored about the same amount of points in the first half as the second half. The defense adjusted to the way ISU was creating 3 point opportunities and soon those uncontested 3s were being contested and ISU started pressing, which created a bigger gap.

Jeff Coffman 6 years, 5 months ago

I was hoping for a KSU and a vein blowing discussion. I'm also surprised that the LJW didn't include a 3 game losing streak article for KSU (KU fans love those).

Forgot who posted that they were waiting for the player to be benched and than transfer from the team. Just wanted to point out after the game, Martin had benched Angel and that Coach Martin wouldn't play him until he realized what an honor it was to play for K-State (I know a contradiction in terms, with that statement, I'm not sure anyone would play for K-State). What I was really going after, is it appears we will most likely have the first casualty of the season from Coach Martin's coaching style.

I also find it ironic that this is the same coach that was trying fiercely to get the Miami job last year.

Mike Kendall 6 years, 5 months ago

It will be a tough game on Jan. 28th. You know what, though, not going to worry about that right now. It's one game at a time. We are definitely in the Conference grind and all focus should be on Baylor. I have seen Baylor play twice now, and, the way you beat them is in transition--make it a track meet. K-State did not do that. You play Baylor with a slow-down type tempo and try to beat them with your half-court offense, it could be a long night. Most of the time you will be on the short end of the scoreboard. That's my two-cents worth. We'll see if the Jayhawks speed up the tempo. Rock Chalk!

wildjayhawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Get ready for a real good old KU asswhoppen at Ames Iowa. Self get out and recruit.

jaybate 6 years, 5 months ago

Lurkers on a site Like ice crystals on a 727 before de-icing.

rockchalkchalkin23 6 years, 5 months ago

Must be short term memory loss. Baylor will have a problem playing at AFH. It is not the same effect for them when playing at their house. Last year, for example, they were supposed to challenge us on their court (can't remember if Baylor was picked to win) and we won 85-65. 75-65 previous to that. They did beat us in the tourney later on. Last year they lacked PG play and a legit Jackson has picked up the slack on the that. The pressure is not on us to win the conference even though we were picked to do so. Texas in the past and KSU last year has shown how hard it is to win the title when favored.

REHawk 6 years, 5 months ago

Well, the wise old pundits are braying that Big 12 titles will go through Lawrence, as a necessary consideration this season. Obviously, this Baylor contest will go a long way in determining which team will win or tie for the league title. I don't envision either the Bears or the Jayhawks folding and going on a steep demise before March. Though yet early in conference play, this game probably will be very crucial to either squad's hopes for finishing on top for the title.

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