Thursday, January 12, 2012

Red Raiders suffer ‘good whipping’

Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor pulls up for a shot over Texas Tech defenders Javarez Willis (5) and Jaye Crockett during the first half Wednesday, Jan. 11, 2012, at United Spirit Arena.

Kansas guard Tyshawn Taylor pulls up for a shot over Texas Tech defenders Javarez Willis (5) and Jaye Crockett during the first half Wednesday, Jan. 11, 2012, at United Spirit Arena.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 81-46 victory over Texas Tech on Jan. 11, 2012, in Lubbock, Texas.

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Highlights: KU vs. Oklahoma

— Texas Tech coach Billy Gillispie was able to summarize Wednesday’s 81-46 Big 12 basketball loss to Kansas University pretty well in the first five words of his news conference.

“Just a real good whipping,” the first-year coach said.

After leading 18-17 with 5:42 to go in the first half, the Red Raiders started to come unraveled right after 6-foot-6 freshman Terran Petteway picked up an intentional foul and ejection at the 5:01 mark following contact with KU guard Conner Teahan.

Gillispie said he didn’t wait for an explanation from the officials.

“I really wasn’t in the mood to be listening to it,” Gillispie said. “They called it, and we suffer the consequences, whatever it is.”

Following that foul, KU ended the half on a 15-2 run to take a 35-20 halftime lead.

“I think we might have focused too much on the technical instead of just playing our game,” Texas Tech sophomore Jaye Crockett said. “ ... You can’t just dwell on that one thing.”

Losing focus was far from the only problem for the Red Raiders, who scored their fewest points since a 66-45 loss to Kansas State on March 7, 2007.

“Very, very few times did we execute plays,” Gillispie said, “or make the right pass on time, on target.”

Gillispie’s game plan offensively centered around trying to get the ball inside, whether by driving or passing.

It didn’t work. The coach was frustrated that his team couldn’t establish any interior presence, as his two starting forwards — Robert Lewandowski and Jordan Tolbert — combined for six points on 3-for-10 shooting with five turnovers.

The two came in averaging a combined 22.4 points per game.

“They basically play the same defensive rules that we play,” Tolbert said. “They just play harder than us.”

The loss was the Red Raiders’ 17th-straight against a ranked opponent. Gillispie fell to 1-3 all-time against Self.

“Give all the credit to Kansas,” Gillispie said. “They’ve got a really nice team and were able to do whatever they wanted to on both ends of the court. We didn’t give them any opposition at all.”

Gillispie also left impressed by KU junior forward Thomas Robinson. After posting just five points in the first half, Robinson finished with 19 points and 12 rebounds in just 19 minutes.

“We did a really good job on him early,” Gillispie said. “But they just kept with it for 40 minutes, and that’s a lesson our guys need to learn. They didn’t start out very well in the game, but they just kept on, kept on, kept on executing with discipline and guarding with discipline. And over time, if you do that, you’re probably going to be very effective.”


lee3022 2 years, 3 months ago

According to today's national college basketball statistics KU ranks #2 overall to Ohio State at #1. On defense KU ranks #3 behind Ohio State and Wisconsin. On offense KU ranks #11 behind Florida, Syracuse, Missouri and others.

In the eFG% category KU ranks #28 on offense and #7 on defense. In 2-point FG% KU ranks #17 on offense and #5 on defense.

I think what I see in all the stats is not totally super in most but in the top 10-25 consistently across many areas. The weakest areas are 3-point shooting at #133 on offense and #115 on defense and FT% at #169.


jaybate 2 years, 3 months ago

I believe this is why a long, athletic, high-powered transition offense like UK's, an offense that wants to get out and fly, and score in transition, gave KU fits, coupled with UK's shot blocking abilities. UK's blocking and defensive rebounding triggered transition against our inexperienced team. The more transition scoring that occurred, the less opportunity there was for our defense to get into half court and play to its strength--to force more TOs, to strip, and for our rebounding to hold even, or build an edge.

If we conceptualize just a bit, it appears Self is trying something strange and perplexing--a grind it out defense with an impact offense.

He is trying to turn KU's defensive possessions (and that is the right term for a Self team's POV of the role of defense--a possession), into grind it out, where you have to play his defense as much as possible, so that the defense can force a TO, get a strip, a rebound, or a block. It is not fundamentally different than what he has always done, but it seems to me an even greater emphasis than ever before. I would love to see a comparison of time of opponent's possession this year with other seasons. I have a hunch that opponents would have longer possessions this season.

And he is trying to turn KU's offensive possessions into shorter holds, less working it in for a good shot, more drive it to the iron impact plays.

It is weird, but it almost seems as if Self were trying to reduce the time of offensive possession so that fewer TOs will be made, fewer strips will occur, and more fouls will occur stopping the clock so KU will have more time on defense.

I know this seems like madness, like turning the game of basketball on its head, like inverting everything we know about the game, but this seems like what he is doing.

And as I have always said, Self is a savant about taking what he is given, rather than trying to force things to accustomed ways.

He long ago threw tempo-setting out the window, unless someone else gives tempo-setting to him.

He long ago threw away motion and picks and screens in the traditional sense of these activities on a basketball court.

Hell, now it seems like he is throwing away the idea that time of possession on offense is a virtue.

Its the damnedest thing I've ever seen.

Its so strange that even thinking I may have a handle on what he is up to, still leaves me scratching my head. :-)

Perhaps Self has lost a lot of hair, as we all suspect.

Perhaps he has done all of this just to make us scratch ours till we lose as much as he may have.

Perhaps we're all going to be bald, when Self sneaks off with another ring. :-)

Rock Chalk!


jaybate 2 years, 3 months ago

The next big decision he made came this season came when he found out he was not going to have Traylor in the paint. Self decided that he wanted to go tall and stay tall opposite TRob, no matter what. To this end, he pulled Kevin Young away from the 3 position, even though losing BenMac, too, meant he was going to be thin, thin, thin, on the perimeter; that he was going to have to count on only Conner for backup on the perimeter. Pulling the skinny Kevin Young from his natural position at the 3, and making him play the 4, meant Self was gambling everything on staying "defensive" at the 4 no matter what. It meant skinny Jeff Withey was going to start and Justin and Kevin were going to spell him. It meant Self was going to play a 6'8" 185 pounder at the power forward significant minutes, plus a 6'9" 220 pounder in Justin, too. It meant the emphasis was going to be on defense at the 4, guarding the position with height, not with brawn, nor was scoring going to be expected. Self said, "We start long, and stay as long as we can, no matter how skinny we get."

The decisions above meant Self the defensive savant was, when his back was to the wall with adversity in recruiting, going to live and die with defense and offensive impacts, and endure the inelegant ball handling all of these players seem prone to.

KU loses when it gets "sped up" too much and its inelegant ball handling makes too many TOs and its formidable defense gets to spend too little time defending.

Self had an ingenuous insight about opposing offenses in this day and age. More and more of them like to slow it down and run the motion, run the Princeton, run what have you. They like to use the clock.

Self appears to have said, "Great, I create a super defensive team with the athletes I have, and I will condition them to play defense for the full 35 seconds and the longer they offense tries to run the clock the more chance my guys have to steal, block and force TOs." Go ahead, keep us on defense; that's our strength.


jaybate 2 years, 3 months ago

The answers are:

KU may make unsightly TOs, but they make other teams make more TOs.

KU may get stripped, because of unsightly ball handing, but KU strips opponents even more.

KU may not dominate the paint and rebounding the way they have in the past, but they do out rebound their opponents.

KU may not block with the frequency of a UK, but they do out block their opponents.

It seems to me that Self made two key decisions last season, and two this season that have enabled this team to play the way it does, despite its shortcomings.

Last season, believing Selby was likely to be an OAD, Self consciously committed to grooming Tyshawn and EJ to be ball handling guards this season despite their limitations in this regard. In essence, Self decided that he wanted these two potentially great defenders, two potentially great penetration guys, and potentially good trey shooters, starting this season as his guards and ball handlers, no matter what the cat dragged in in recruiting. Self, the defensive maniac, decided he wanted to field the greatest possible pair of defensive guards he could. He wanted to field two guys that could impact on offense against anyone. And he was willing to put up with the ball handling to get these qualities. Now, you could say in hind sight that he had no choice, but Self was hunting for guards to the bitter end and took a flyer on Naadir in case the ball handling got too awful.


jaybate 2 years, 3 months ago

Overall Conclusion:

KU holds decisive net advantage edges in 3 of 4 categories considered: turnovers, steals, and rebounding. Note that each of these categories triggers a 100 percent chance of a change of possession. Holding net advantages in these categories means you get more opportunities than your opponent to score.

UK only holds a decisive net advantage edge in blocks. Note that blocks sometimes result in a change of possession, but often not. The key to whether blocks are a decisive advantage worth holding depends on how much they rattle another team. Do the blocks cause the opponent to shoot worse after the block? Do they cause the opponent to shoot worse generally out of fear of being blocked? Or does the opponent quickly adjust its shot selection, and degree of arch, in ways that minimize the intimidation factor of blocks? Clearly, KU's first encounter with UK, when KU was an inexperienced team with TRob on a bum knee, and with lots of players that had not gone up against that kind of link, the shot blocking became a decisive edge for UK. KU shot only 20-25% from trey, for one example.

But as KU becomes battle hardened by March, and as it gets more and more used to finding ways to play to win in the face of all manner of different kinds of physical challenges, KU should become less likely to be intimidated by the shot blocking abilities of UK. They should be able to scheme to contend with that shot blocking ability, which should erode UK's advantage in this category.

And while UK will get better defensively as the season goes along, so will KU and so UK is apt not to close gap much on any of the net advantages KU holds in the other categories.

I will predict a KU win over UK the next time they meet right now, if they meet in the Madness, but that is not the point of this analysis.

The point of this analysis is to try to explain how this team can be doing so well with so little depth and such inelegant ball handling.


jaybate 2 years, 3 months ago

So shoot me. I am thinking for free here. :-)

Here goes.

Turnovers Per Game:

School/TOPG/Opponent TOPG/Net Advantage KU 14.5 15.6 -1.1 UK 13.4 14.1 -0.7

Inference: In this stat, you want to have less TOPGs than your opponent, and so you want the difference between your TOPGs and the opponent's TOPGs to be as big of a negative number as possible. The biggest negative number wins the comparison. To wit, KU may make more TOPGs than UK, but KU's defense forces opponents to make significantly more TOPGs than UK's defense does. So: KU's edge in TOPGs over its opponents is just slightly less than double that of UK's over its opponents. Score one for KU's inelegant ball handling, but good defending team.

Steals Per Game:

School/STLs/Opponent STLs KU 7.8/7.2/ +0.6 UK 6.9/ 6.4/ +0.2

Inference:In this stat, you want more SPG than your opponent, so the team with biggest plus number over its opponents wins the comparison. KU's Net SPG advantage of +0.6 is three times that of UK's +0.2.

Rebounds Per Game:

School/RPG/Opponents RPG/Net Advantage KU 39.1 30.1 +9.0 UK 41.1 33.1 +7.0

Inference: In this stat, you again want more RPGs than your opponent, and the biggest net advantage possible. So, the team with biggest Net Advantage in RPB over its opponent wins the comparison. KU's net rebounding advantage is +9.0, and UK's is only +7.0. KU holds the clear advantage yet again.

Blocks Per Game:

School/BPG/Opponents BPG/Net Advantage

KU: 5.5/3.5/ +2.0 UK: 9.2/3.2/ +6.0

Inference: In this stat, the biggest net advantage over opponents is best. UK wins this one category hands down by having a net advantage of +6.0 BPG compared with KU's +2.0 BPG net advantage over its opponents. UK's net advantage in BPGs is 3 times KU's.


jaybate 2 years, 3 months ago

"Net Advantage: Putting TOs and Some Other Stats in Perspective of Team Vs. Opponent, While Still Scratching One's Head"

Being part quantoid, whenever people talk about scratching their heads over puzzling phenomena I search out a few bench mark stats and see if I can see anything simple that explains what is going on, thereby reducing the scratching.

Today Coach Self talks off head scratching about some of Tyshawn's choices driving the ball.

Today, many board rats riff on this with concerns about Coach Self, Coach Self's system, Tyshawn, worries about how all these TOs will get us sunk in March, and generally seem perplexed and bumfuzzled by this team continuing to win with guards that seem so inelegant in their ball handling.

Today, I grabbed stats for UK, which so many live in such fear of, because of their vaunted length, athleticism, and star-ratings, and their coach who lets them play his gimmick offense that "let's 'em play."

Here is what I learned.

KU is winning, even with a largely inexperienced team, even with reputedly little depth, and even with two guards who seem inelegant in their ball handling, because Self has schemed this team around getting net edges over opponents, however inelegant it may appear to be being done, in some crucial stats.

Without putting too fine a point on things, Self is opting for good defense at every position, rather than good ball handling, and as a result, his team is achieving net advantages over its opponent's who may be prettier at handling the ball.

And obvious possible flaw in my analysis is that I have not indexed these stats for number of possessions, as in TOs per possession per game. Rather I have worked with plain old TOs per game.


Rockchalk_Mom 2 years, 3 months ago

I think you are not giving TT a lot of the credit he deserves. Many of his turn-overs are just silly, but when he drives to the lane a lot of his mission is to draw a foul, usually on the player on the other team who is giving us the most trouble to keep from scoring. He makes his freethrows. Last year, he would drive in, toss it up and let Marcus or Markeiff go get it for a dunk. Withey and Robinson aren't as good at doing that as the Morris were. I've seen this over and over again with Bill Self coached teams. If someone is hot, go get him off the floor by drawing fouls. Some times it works better than othesr, but Taylor does get to the free throw line a lot by doing just that.


jaybate 2 years, 3 months ago

"Red Raiders Raided, Spaded"

Spaded as in buried.

Had the first half right--lots taking what was given and close. Had the second half wrong. Who can flipping forecast 9 % trifectation.

Is there something about Self Ball philosophy, or mental preparation, that predisposes it to these anomalously horrid trey nights, regardless of who is coaching it?

Self gives EJ a wake up call, but the Prophet keeps napping.

Conner takes a punch, and shoots 2-6 from Trinitron.

Tyshawn forces a few, but keeps the pressure on while his mates struggle.

KY offends well again, but gives up on defensive footwork and becomes a hand checker, which works in the whistle swallowing stretches against lesser teams, but...

Justin now being locked down by his own mind.

Travis stays a rock.

Jeff proves he's not just tall, but can elevate too.

Bringing new depth to the word freshman point guard, after his usual immediate blow by on defense, Naadir gets fiery hot from trey, when KU is supposed to be playing the clock and not humiliating Self's friend.

TRob has foul trouble the first game after Self says he hasn't been having foul trouble

And this KU IMF (impossible mission force) keeps blowing out lesser teams, playing tough against good ones, and collecting road wins like head hunters in New Guinea collecting shrunken heads.

Rock Chalk to these mighty Jayhawks entering the stretch where the season feels like a long march.


Play hard.

Stay alive.

Stay together.

Collect wins.

One at a time.

Destiny rides with you.


William Blake 2 years, 3 months ago

Hey... let's also stay focused on the positive here. We've never put on such a romping down in that arena before... even with our great teams we used to have when CS knew how to recruit! (hehehe)


REHawk 2 years, 3 months ago

Ms Andrea certainly does add glamour to camera shots of our bench! HEM, I enjoyed your thorough post today re TT's first half of play. I come away from some of our games almost bewildered that our point guard can muff so many plays, yet we continue to post such terrific seasonal winning stats. Tharpe has been presented with constant weekly opportunity to step up for escalating minutes; but, sadly, is not yet proficient enough to grab the brass ring. Elijah sometimes plays like a robot, without the forward energy to help turn things around when backcourt play flounders. Bill Self continues to post wins, coping with and juggling the screwiest lineup that any coach of a Top 10 national program could imagine. But, hey, we forge forward as one of only two undefeated teams in the Big 12. And we seem to rise to the occasion when big plays and moments are called for....


Tony Bandle 2 years, 3 months ago

PS Did any of you catch the cleavage shot of our strengths coach last night???

I think we need to change her name to "Hotty"!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Tony Bandle 2 years, 3 months ago

I know it's early but the conference personna is starting to materialize.

1] Cellar dwellers, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and TAM are awful and should count as 6 victories or shame on us. 2] Middle of the pack K-State, Oklahoma State and Iowa State - three home victories and at least two road victories goes for 5 of 6 3] Top tier, Baylor, Missouri and Texas, minimum of split at 3-3.

That totals 14-4.. The problem is, I'm not sure anyone but Kansas is capable of beating Baylor. Even if we sweep them, they may still end up 16-2

All thoughts and opinions greatly appreciated!!


always_a_jayhawk 2 years, 3 months ago

Tech just played stupid tonight. Between BCG's technical, the flagrant fouls on Petteway (so THAT'S what his name was) and the intentional foul with 22 seconds left, it's safe to assume Tech took stupid pills, and they kicked in just before we went on our little run. :)


Jack Wilson 2 years, 3 months ago

I had seen some discussion that Tyshawn is improving, and "gets it" now. Even some that think he had "nice game" last night.

Count me as one (who has been around the game my entire life), who respectfully disagrees.

Look no further than the first half last night -- in order: 1. Loses the ball on a drive from the wing. Turnover. 2. Drives to the hoop, shoots, air ball, then whines that he got hit on arm .. hitting his own arm to demonstrate .. as if to explain the air ball. Rewind shows no contact. 3. Drives to hoop and misses from point blank range. 4. Drives to the hoop, off balance, fall on his back, garbage shot, air ball, again whining about no foul. 5. Another off balance drive and miss. 6. Gets inside the free throw line and makes a 13 footer. 7. Turnover at half court leads directly to a Tech hoop. Then he flops his arms around over his head at the dead ball like a little kid. 8. Misses open 15 footer. 9. Commits a foul, then gestures with his forearm as if he got pushed pushed, again whining about his failure. 10. Drive to the hoop in traffic, throws it up, gets blocked but then tips in his miss. 11. Nice pass to Young for a slam 12. Hits a three.

That's just the first half. The guy shoots 14 times last night -- the second half was of course a bit better, but still had two just head scratching turnovers.

Why do you think we struggled so much in the first 12 minutes or so? The point guard runs the team. He sets the tone.

What is completely perplexing, unbelievable, and beyond reason is that on TT's drives to the hoop, he never dished. Didn't drive a drop. No penetration with a lay off to a teammate for an easy hoop.

His play is selfish.

We will never know what this guy costs us with the ball in his hands, because it's speculation. But it is reasoned speculation.

Supporters or apologists, or those that just don't want to be negative, will point to the positives. This has nothing to do with the positives. We know the positives. And sure, sometimes the shots fall. Sometimes.

But from a consistent, game in, game out, grind it out perspective, this out of control, selfish stuff costs this team more than his positives help us. It's been like that from day one.


Clarence Haynes 2 years, 3 months ago

I am sure that Terran Petteway learned an invaluable lesson last night. He does not strike me as a mad kid who would make a habit of what he did. I wish him the best and hope that KU fans are cordial when Tech visits AFH.


Martin Rosenblum 2 years, 3 months ago

I'm not sure how to react to Billy Clyde putting in his bench guard who is deaf. On the one hand, he was giving the guy some minutes in a game with a No. 10 team who was pounding them so what's the harm. On the second hand, maybe he thought our guys would play with less aggressivness and the score wouldn't look so bad if we slacked off. I respect the player and TTech for his making the team. But, what if there were an inadvertent elbow that caused him some serious injury?


LngTimeFan 2 years, 3 months ago

Young will be a real stud, getting better every game. And, hey TT, nice game.


ttoulouse 2 years, 3 months ago

Have noticed this for a while. He's a hacker and doesn't believe in his feet yet on defense. He'll get it though, you can see the talent is there.


ttoulouse 2 years, 3 months ago

Have noticed this for a while. He's a hacker and doesn't believe in his feet yet on defense. He'll get it though, you can see the talent is there.


Jason Keller 2 years, 3 months ago

Am I the only one who notices Kevin Young's defense? My god. I mean the guy works hard and competes but he literally assaults the opposing player with his hands non stop. I have to believe that this drives Bill Self absolutely bonkers, especially with a guy like Young who is long enough to defend well without reaching. Great win tonight, hopefully this helps propel us into the difficult games we have coming up.


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