Kansas defeats Kansas State, 67-49

  • 7 p.m., Jan. 4, 2012
  • Allen Fieldhouse, Lawrence, KS

Thursday, January 5, 2012

Rough and ready: ‘Intense’ Jayhawks trip KSU

Kansas forward Thomas Robinson claps his hands as the Jayhawk take control against Kansas State during the first half on Wednesday, Jan. 4, 2012 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas forward Thomas Robinson claps his hands as the Jayhawk take control against Kansas State during the first half on Wednesday, Jan. 4, 2012 at Allen Fieldhouse.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 67-49 victory over Kansas State on Jan. 4, 2012.

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Highlights: KU vs. Kansas State


KU vs. Kansas State

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Kansas defeated Kansas State 67-49 on Wednesday, Jan. 4, 2012 at Allen Fieldhouse.

Kansas University’s basketball starters knew they were in for a fierce, physical battle — a war — against ultra-aggressive Kansas State on Wednesday night.

So Tyshawn Taylor and Co. asked the Jayhawk reserves for a big favor before practice last Sunday.

“We told our Red team to foul us a lot more than they usually do,” senior guard Taylor said. “(Because of that) our practices have been more intense and physical. I think we were ready for them tonight.”

Prepped well at practice the last three days, the No. 14-ranked Jayhawks outrebounded No. 23-ranked Kansas State, 50-26, in Wednesday’s 67-49 Big 12-opening victory in Allen Fieldhouse.

“Christian (Garrett) and Niko (Roberts) and all those guys were out there beating on us, getting us ready,” KU junior center Jeff Withey said after grabbing nine rebounds and blocking six shots, while scoring eight points in 24 minutes.

“Especially Jamari (Traylor) ... he was fouling every time,” Withey added. “It was rough. They were rough practices, but definitely got us ready. The Red Team did a great job.”

It showed on the stat sheet.

Junior power forward Thomas Robinson had 14 rebounds to go with 15 points. Junior forward Travis Releford secured a career-high 11 boards to go with a career-high 16 points. And junior guard Elijah Johnson grabbed a career-high eight boards to go with his five assists, three steals and three points.

“I’d never have dreamed we could outrebound them by that margin, but we did,” KU coach Bill Self said. “We went after the ball.

“Thomas is going to get his,” Self added. “The keys were Travis, Jeff, Elijah. We’ve not had our guards get eight. We’ve not had Travis get 11. Those guys did a great job getting on the glass. Other than McGruder (Rodney, five boards, 15 points, 39 minutes) and Samuels (Jamar, five boards, 12 points) getting loose a few times, I thought we did a pretty good job on the glass. There were not many possessions we didn’t put ourselves in good position to rebound the ball.”


“I think so much of this game is what you emphasize, and guys respond to that,” Self said. “I made a pretty big deal ... against North Dakota I didn’t play guys in the second half at all because they didn’t go after the ball. Sometimes guys respond to those type of things. Of late we emphasized hitting somebody and going after the ball with two hands, who is going to get 70 percent of the balls in the air with nobody having possession of them? That’s been our emphasis more than execution.”

And so KU (11-3 overall, 1-0 Big 12) did suffer 20 turnovers while dishing eight assists. KSU (11-2, 0-1) had 13 turnovers and just six assists.

Robinson scored eight points, Releford five, Taylor four and Withey four as KU raced to a 23-5 lead. The Wildcats, who trailed, 35-20, at halftime, made it a game — 39-36 — with 12:31 to play.

That’s when senior guard Conner Teahan (six points, 22 minutes) hit back-to-back threes sandwiched around a KSU bucket, giving KU a 45-38 margin at 10:49. The Jayhawks continued on a 17-5 run, opening a 56-41 lead at 7:11. Robinson also had four points in that surge and Releford three.

“Conner bailed us out. I thought Conner made the biggest shots of the game,” Self said.

Of the shots, Teahan said: “I thought we were kind of laboring at the time. We were a little tight. When you get tight, the defense can sense it. I wanted to help get our confidence back up.”

Teahan, who berated himself publicly after KU’s loss to Davidson, was thrilled to help beat rival KSU with important shots Wednesday.

“That Davidson loss hurt. I’ve thought about it a lot. I still think about it,” Teahan said. “It’s good to get a big win over K-State and start the Big 12 right. My freshman year, we lost to them in Manhattan. Since then, it’s been a much bigger rival to me.”

KU will next meet Oklahoma at 1 p.m. Saturday at Noble Center in Norman, Okla.


Scott MacWilliams 9 years ago

Way to Rock the Chalk!!! J A Y H A W K S !!!!!!!

There's a piece on that has some GREAT Frank Martin quotes:

“Every team that comes here deals with it,” Martin said. “It’s not just us. I watch tape, and everyone gets down 12-2 here. It’s unbelievable." “I almost called timeout when we were up 1-0. I was so excited.” Instead, Kansas State fell behind 23-5 and trailed 35-20 at intermission.


LAJayhawk 9 years ago

“I almost called timeout when we were up 1-0. I was so excited.”

Awesome. Every year I like Frank Martin a little bit more. He's not a bad dude.

sleepy33 9 years ago

Um...they won a national championship?

sleepy33 9 years ago

Excellent. I'll let you know where to send my new set of steak knives.

jayhawker_97 9 years ago

it hurts losing to KU when your team fought that hard. we were the better fighters tonight. nevertheless, it's a good show. a very good start for KU.

rock chalk!

Tom Longhofer 9 years ago

Tyshawn is the rare player who can be the MVP for both teams in the same game. Still I like his loyalty to KU, he'll always have a free pass from me for playing hurt against Ohio State and I hope his best games are ahead of him.

coolsportsdad 9 years ago

Plus, the "Tyshawn Turnover" drinking game was a huge success. And, we were too drunk by the middle of the second half to be upset anymore.

Tom Longhofer 9 years ago

Is there anything more to the game that just taking drink on a TO?

I really think TT's a vital part of the team, but some of his TO's seem so bizarre!

Loved his layup to end the first half

actorman 9 years ago

"Tyshawn is the rare player who can be the MVP for both teams in the same game."

I love it!!! One of the best lines of the year (and I mean the school year, not just the calendar year).

Tyshawn is such an exhilarating and frustrating player to watch.

jhox 9 years ago

A few random thoughts...

Self needs to ease off Withey, and leave him in games so he can get in the flow sooner. We're a significantly better team when he's in the game, even if he looks awkward doing certain things. Just having him in the paint on defense makes us a much better team.

Have you ever seen a bigger cry baby than the Spradling kid from K State? The refs should have at very least charged KSU with a timeout when he had them waste time by going to the bench to review the video. Or, maybe even a technical foul for the equivalent of a "flop" in crying about getting punched when a punch obviously hadn't happened. Opposing coaches should also take every opportunity to point out to the refs that Spradling constantly pushes off when he's handling the ball, and constantly hand checks on defense. He should have fouled out 10 minutes into the game if the refs had been doing their jobs.

jhox 9 years ago

I agree that a good player should take what the refs give him. I don't necessarily mind flops...if you can get away with them, then may as well. I've seen guys who are great at it.

I am surprised a guy like Frank Martin lets Spradling cry to the officials constantly. I respect Martin, and the toughness he coaches. Spradling's whining is not befitting of what Martin has built. His offensive push offs with the forearm go above and beyond what most guys get away with. There is nothing subtle about them, and defensively he's always got 2 hands on the ballhandler, not just one. I've reffed, and you do let guys get away with minor hand checks all the time, but what he does goes above and beyond the norm.

hawk316 9 years ago

I suspect Coach Self is attempting to get the most out of Jeff who tends to be a more laid back personality., One way to light the fire under the big man is to sit him down occasionally. But I'm very pleased with Withey's development this year. If he continues to improve, he will be more of a force than he already is, both through the end of this season and next. Way to go, Jeff! Keep bringing the passion!

Brianna Zaleski 9 years ago

As far as 7 foot white guys that have played for KU in recent memory (JW and Chenowith) tell me, is not Withey already a better Jayhawk than Cheno? Wouldn't you rather have JW on your team than EC???..... Totally random thought but I can't help feeling this way every time I see a game where Withey really plays up to his potential. And he does more often than not nowadays. As opposed to watching EC underachieve for 4 long years. All has to do with coaching and the type of players Self recruits. Tough.

Steve Gantz 9 years ago

Wrong. Chenowith was a preseason 2nd team all american his junior year, based on his sophomore year of 13 points and 9 points a game. Withey will never approach those kind of numbers.
The problem with Eric was a stellar recruiting class brought three guys in who immediately demanded playing time, guys who are still playing major minutes in the pros. You can read all about it in King and Newell's book Beyond the Phog. And what's with the white guy comment? Do you insert the word black for the black point guard or whatever the case may be? Of course not.

Brianna Zaleski 9 years ago

Are you f-ing kidding me? So you are saying to me that you would rather have EC than JW? Keep in mind that Jeff is one the uptick while EC declined in his Jr. and Sr. years. If he was as good as you are saying he was, a "stellar recruiting class" should not have held him back. He should have led the group, not been surpassed, if he was the All-America type you are insinuating. What the hell is a PRESEASON All-America worth anyway?
As far as the stats you threw out, yeah Withey may never approach 13 and 9 type numbers, but our offense will never be run thru him. EC was the focal point of Roy's offense. And let's be honest, with players like Kenny Gregory, Nick Bradford and Jelani Janeese throwing up bricks all day, most of those points probably came on put-backs and FT's. A more telling stat would be his CAREER numbers which are 9 and 6. Withey's having a similar year so far with 7 and 6. You can argue all day long about Eric Chenowith brings to the table, but he is arguably one of the biggest under achievers in the history of our program. Ask around. Don't think that just because you can pull some statistic off of, that we are all going to somehow be fooled into thinking that EC was any good. Because 4 years of the old fashioned "eyeball test" told us then that he just wasn't that good. That hasn't changed. And the whole white guy comment was meant to convey just that. Whithey and Cheno are white guys who are 7 foot tall and have played for KU. When you say "7 ft tall white guy", what comes to mind? An athletic type like Shaq, Greg Oden or Dwight Howard? Or does your mind tend to envision Eric Chenowith and Shawn Bradley? Eric Chenowith played like you would expect a 7 ft tall white guy to play like. Jeff Withey does not. Simple as that. And while we are on stereotypes, no, I don't insert "black" in front of a description of a basketball guard... That's pretty much a given.... unless, of course, you say he's a white basketball gurad, then I think he must be a good shooter. Wow, look how racist I am

Steve Gantz 9 years ago

Withey offered nothing last year. This year he's offering something, but nothing that will ever make me go wow. EC contributed from the start. You should read the book I mentioned. It's pretty interesting. Chenowith's chapter is in there and it highlights how Roy had it in for him. As for the white comment, you're implying that whites are big and slow. That's the intent of your statement. Why put it in there? I'm not going to go back in the archives, but have we had big slow 7 foot black guys too? I bet we have.
Finally, I never heard of, but thanks for the heads up, I'll check it out!

actorman 9 years ago

I'm not wild about the "white guy" comments, but otherwise I agree with ZIG. Yes, it's true that EC was a preseason All-American (and he was actually first-team, not second-team, or at least he was one of the top 10 players, according to Playboy) his junior year, but that's precisely the problem: as I recall, he didn't even make honorable mention All-American at the end of that year or the next. I'd love to know how often that happens; it can't be very common to go from one of the top 10 before the season to basically not making the top 50 afterwards.

And it's more than just numbers too: I have never seen a player at KU with worse hands than Chenowith. He used to drive me crazy with how often the ball would clank off his hands. Then on the rare occasions when he actually did catch a pass, he had one move, the turn-around jumper. Sometimes it worked but plenty of times it didn't work. Yes, he was a decent rebounder and got some points that way as well as from the line. But he wasn't as good a defensive player as Withey is, and Withey is the polar opposite of EC when it comes to catching the ball. JW has some of the best hands I've ever seen at KU.

Admittedly, some of it also has to do with expectations: EC had us believing that he was going to be great, then he didn't put in enough work and ended up being a huge underachiever. Meanwhile, few people expected JW to be playing as well as he is now, and it seems like he's only just starting to reach his potential.

So I'm with ZIG that I would rather have JW than EC, especially when you consider what his upside will be like for next season.

Joseph Kuebel 9 years ago

Ya, its just a descriptor (white guy), just like the best player to ever have a fauxhawj, don't take it personal...

Although I do agree that pointing out differences in race doesn't help anything for advancement of society. By pointing out difference in color it by its very nature separates and points out differences as opposed to bring us all together as one. One day we will live in a society (I hope) where race won't be mentioned whether they are the first white to do this, or first black to do that. If it wasn't recognized it would view as people which seems to be a futuristic goal that people do not understand... In the meantime if someone does bring up race I won't divulge into criticism of opinion, or fact for that matter.

Steve Gantz 9 years ago

Let's hope at this point that Withey proves me wrong and proves you and Zig correct. As far as the Playboy preseason all american, well, youi just proved you read it for more than the pictures!

actorman 9 years ago


Hey, KU basketball takes precedence even over Playboy centerfolds!

Tuskin 9 years ago

Kaun was white. He's listed at 6'-11". Does that 1" make any difference to you?

rockchalkchalkin23 9 years ago

It has to do with the terminology of the industry. It's often said of the guys only 1" taller, "He's a true 7 footer." Technically it makes no difference I suppose.

zsn 9 years ago

Re. refs doing their job, I'm reminded of an incident in 1984, during that infamous OU overtime game. Early in the game there was a foul on Tisdale and the ref came over to the scorer's table and the PA announcer said "Foul is on Tisdale, his first"....there was a brief moment of pause when the surroundings were quiet and the guy behind us (we were about halfway up in the student section behind the KU bench) screamed "First one you called, you b@st@rds" - just about everyone nearby exploded laughing. Even Larry turned around and smiled. I'm sure the ref heard it but walked away.

actorman 9 years ago

Nice story, zsn. That makes me think of a KU women's game I was at in the early '80s, where there was a bad call on a KU foul. The woman for the other team missed the first free throw, and a woman in the stands yelled, "See there, ref: God knows."

hawk316 9 years ago

zig, your comments about EC made me curious, so I checked his stats while at KU. They are as follows:

1997-1998: Kansas (NCAA): 5.9ppg, 4.9rpg 1998-1999: Kansas (NCAA): 13.5ppg, 9.1rpg 1999-2000: Kansas (NCAA): 8.7ppg, 6rpg, 1.7bpg 2000-2001: Kansas (NCAA): 9.8ppg, 7.8rpg Completed career ranked second in career blocked shots (242). Ranked in the school's top 20 in career scoring, top 10 in career games played and top five in career rebounding. Topped Kansas in rebounds 42 times and points 19 times. .

I know some fans felt that Chenowith fell below expectations, but these are certainly decent numbers, and thus far, better than Withey's (whom I like). Sometimes, expectations placed on 7-footers are simply unreasonable. A Wilt or an Alcindor (Kareem) do not come along very often.

FarSideHawk 9 years ago

He was ok. Expectations were high, as we were expecting LaFrentz's replacement.

As a sidekick he was good; he just never became the main-course. No fault of his.

I had similar fears about Marcus Morris last year and Thomas Robinson this year regarding whether they would be able to make that transition and carry the team? I'm glad that they did.

Steve Gantz 9 years ago

I wish I had seen your comments on Chenowith. His chapter in the new book "Beyond the Phog" fill in some answers to the Chenowith question. It made me like Eric more and Roy less to be honest.

actorman 9 years ago

I'll read about him in the book, and I'll be open to the possibility of changing my opinion about him. But as I said above, the stats alone don't reflect the countless times that he seemed incapable of catching the ball. And of course there's the whole story of him traveling around all summer with the Dave Matthews Band.

Dyrk Dugan 9 years ago

a great win obviously....but beating them by 18, and we didn't play particularly well has to be alarming for grape fans.

yes, we totally dominated the boards, but we didn't shoot it well, and we didn't handle the ball well (see Tyshawn Taylor....a big struggle and then he makes a brilliant drive)...and each team shot the same number of FTs.

i think KSU just isn't that good...and we can be, emphasis can be, a pretty darn good team.

the conference season...especically road games....always expose your weaknesses. and right now, Jacob Pullen's absence, is a weakness. they obviously don't have a talent even close to him on their roster. oh sure, they have some nice players...but he put them on his back a lot...and that's not happening this year with one player.

Kansas now needs to regroup and get a couple of road wins that we should get OU and at TTech. then home vs. ISU...then the showdown with Baylor. it's going to get quite fun, very quickly.

Go Jayhawks!

ghigh101 9 years ago

I like that...."Grape Fans!" Way to go Hawks!

hawk316 9 years ago

Let's face it. This team is not going to be one of Self's best in terms of taking care of the basketball. Just the opposite, in fact (but they can get better). Still, they have enough athleticism, talent and determination to prevail over most opponents. However, like poor free throw shooting, the inability to take care of the basketball has a way of exposing a team the tournament, usually. We can hope that doesn't happen, but I won't be surprised if it does.

Nevertheless, I really appreciate the hard work, dedication and great effort these guys are giving the team. They're getting better, and they will give us many reasons to cheer before season's end. Enjoy.

Ben Kane 9 years ago

just got back to the states, had zero access to anything sports related. someone please give me a summary of everything i missed.

Tony Bandle 9 years ago

Hawks beat Ohio State, Georgetown, KSU..lose to Kentucky, Duke, Davidson..beat everyone else...TRob heading toward All-American..Tyshawn heading toward KU record for headed toward 3rd-4th seed in NCAA..11-3, Top 15, much more fun ahead..don't leave country again till April!!

misfire 9 years ago

That is a great nutshell, Oakville!!

Ben Kane 9 years ago

okay, i had most of that, just missed the last three. was supposed to get home in time for ksu but had flight delays. won't be missing any more this season.

JayHawkFanToo 9 years ago

Lunardi has KU as a #2 seed in the latest bracketology. By the way, MU and Baylor are also #2 seeds.

hawkhoops 9 years ago

Way to go ‘Hawks!! Stay tough, mentally and physically. No let downs.

REHawk 9 years ago

Yeah, I think Tharpe is too sped up, trying to do too much, not settling in to let the game come to him. He must quit shooting and focus on passing and ball control. I see lots of potential in his game; but he is not making the most of the opportunities which Bill Self is providing. Now that BenMac and Traylor are practicing, Tharpe should get the opportunity to work with a dandy practice squad, perhaps slow his motor to the point that he "gets it."

tom123kufan 9 years ago

Difference between KU fans and K-State fans: K State Fans would have been chomping at the bit this morning to rub a win in my face, spout out how Hawks are over rated and not worth watching this season. Would have stated how K-State should be ranked higher than the Hawks and how the press gives KU a free pass. Instead KU was business as usual and as I strolled into work this morning i greeted them with a friendly good morning and a smile. So great being a Hawk fan! On to the next.

meremy 9 years ago

Top 25 to KSU: Don't the door hit you in the ar$e on the way out

tical523 9 years ago

State fans would rather the hawks lose than the cats win, no jive turkey.

Chayse Patrick 9 years ago

plus 1. So much difference the class and expectations of the 2 schools and it all starts with the coaches. Self is CLASSY period Martin is a physco idiot. We know when we take the court we are 'sposed to win. That is why our fans don't storm the court after big wins. .PRICELESS

TRUEBLUEKU 9 years ago

TROB will NPOY, he's on this mid-season All-American list and named most valuable to his team.

Bion Ostrander 9 years ago

That 50-26 rebounding edge is truly an unbelievable stat, both in number and margin!

I hope this gets TR untracked, I really thought this year would be his coming out party, because he patiently sat a number of years behind the "one and done" players - - I think KU would have been better off developing and having TR in the line-up going several years back rather than wasting time on Xavier and Selby.

My vote for all-time flop expert goes to Tyler Hansbrough, big wimp!

I still don't like that KU frequently goes quite a few possessions without TRob touching the ball, and the passing of this KU team is a trainwreck. But I'll take the 18 point win over KSU.

Maybe the tougher practices with the availability of Traylor and McLemore is starting to pay dividends and make the starters work harder.

KU's players do seem to be in great shape and finish most games with spurts, especially TRob often dominating at the end.

actorman 9 years ago

"I hope this gets TR untracked, I really thought this year would be his coming out party, ..."

What exactly do you mean by "untracked?" He's averaging 17 and 12, has had double-doubles in most of KU's games, and has been Big XII player of the week three times. How is that not being untracked?

actorman 9 years ago

Thanks ralster, I think you're right in this case (although I could argue that even "on track" would be kind of a strange thing to say). And I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who's driven nuts by that type of thing.

HawkKlaw 9 years ago

That was a good win for KU, but we still have a long way to go. Those first 8 minutes of the second half were unbearable!

But "Cool-Hand" Connor Teahan gets a lot of credit for this "W."

And Travis finally woke from his slumber. We've been waiting for so long!

And it's just another day at the office for TRob. Eatin' donuts and drinkin' coffee like it's nobody's biz.

It is absolutely maddening to watch TT try to run the offense though. This Self quote says it all: “[Taylor] makes plays you can’t coach,” Self said. “And then he makes plays where it looks like he’s never been coached.”

Tyshawn always says that he'll get better at not turning the ball over. He'll watch tape and yadda yadda. Honestly, though, that'll always be a part of his game. "It is what it is", as they say. I'm not writing him off though...he is a leader in his own way and when he's running on full steam KU doesn't lose. He's a far-less-polished Rajon Rondo. Too bad TT will probably be in the NBA (or some other pro league) before we get to see his full Rondo-esque potential.

Good win though, hawks! Now take care of business Saturday!

bad_dog 9 years ago

So what you're saying is the team with the highest score won?

HawkKlaw 9 years ago

"Recruit shooters"

Derp dee derp!

PhogAdvisory 9 years ago

Tough defense forces players to miss shots they'd normally make.

Tough offense allows players to muscle through fouls/tough defense and make shots they might have missed.

Toughness wins games.

But hey, if KU were playing 17 more games of "Horse," your strategy would be right on the money.

actorman 9 years ago

You're right, Maxhawk, it was all about the shooting. Outrebounding them 50-26 had nothing to do with it.

Derek Bowman 9 years ago

I was at the game last night and am kinda surprised I haven't heard more about Withey's performance. He was a real force down low with his rebounding, his aggressiveness toward the bucket, and most importantly his ability to affect shots taken. He was changing KSU shots left and right. It really seemed as though when K-State players put up a shot in the paint they were constantly concerned about him. The sequence with the three dunks had a block of his in it and it just felt like he was doing that stuff most of the game. Thoughts?

Ben Kane 9 years ago

anyone know where i can see a replay of the KSU game?

Sam Brockert 9 years ago

I am glad for more than one reason that KU won. First of all, well I am always glad when KU wins. The other reason is that I hope this lights a fire under KSU and they come out ready to play againist MU this weekend... Maybe I am dreaming but I feel Mizzou is going to get exposed staurday, they may or may not lose...but I think everyone will begin to see just how to beat them.

Ludwig Supraphonic 9 years ago

Very physical game. Still surprised Henriquez was allowed to hook at will.

actorman 9 years ago

They did finally call the foul on him in the second half.

LngTimeFan 9 years ago

TT will cost KU a game at a critical point, maybe a game late season for the league championship, maybe the B-12 tournament championship game, maybe any game in the NCAA - final 4 or God forbid the National Championship. He clearly does not grasp the significance of his carelessness with the ball. Some fancy dribble, which gets taken away from him at half court, or some fancy shot that goes in will not make up for his recklessness. He is NOT pro ball ready and won't be as long as he plays as he has lately. IMO of course.

JayHawkFanToo 9 years ago

You have a knack for the obvious. You do understand that at any critical point of any game and/or season, any players can cost KU a game, don't you? You also understand that because of the position and the number of minutes he plays there is a higher likelihood that he will have more turnovers than a player that does not play PG and/or the same number of minutes, don't you? If so, why zero in on Tyshawn? Every player in the team has committed turnovers, but few have contributed as much as Tyshawn has to KU's current record. What exactly would you suggest HCBS does? Sit Tyshawn for the season? Limit his minutes? If he does that, who would replace him in the lineup? EJ and NT have demonstrated so far that they are even more unreliable that Tyshawn. By all indications, HCBS has determined that Tyshawn contributes more to the team playing than riding the pine. I trust HCBS judgment; of course he has a National Championship, seven conference titles, one of the best coaching records in college BBall and I don't, and I am going to guess that you do not either.

Jeeveshawk 9 years ago

Your points for defending Tyshawn are valid, but he still shouldn't get anywhere close to the number that he gets. He needs to improve on that or move to shooting guard, where it is more about scoring and less about ball-handling.

JayHawkFanToo 9 years ago

And again, my point is who would you play in place of TT? EJ and Tharpe have certainly been a lot more inconsistent than TT. Donald Rumsfeld said it best "you go to war with the army you have---not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time." Likewise, KU has to play with the players it has, not with players the fans wish it had. Barring a season ending injury or a miraculous improvement by Johnson and/or Tharpe, Tyshawn will the starting PG fro the rest of the season

actorman 9 years ago

I don't think he's arguing that Self should play someone else; TT is clearly the guy who's going to lead us, for better or worse. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that he may be right about TT's turnovers killing KU in a crucial game down the line. It will probably be the same game in which KU wouldn't even be close were it not for TT's brilliance on other plays. But unless he starts playing much more consistently, I can't see this team putting together a major run in the tournament.

LngTimeFan 9 years ago

My point is that as the starting guard who has had turnover problems TT will cost KU a game at a seasons critical point. If not, that will be great. TT has to get his head on straight and stop being so careless. No one is saying TT should never have another turnover or that Self should not play TT. That is a dumb point on your part. Gheez. This board is full of varying opinions on all things KU. MANY of us feel the same about TT and to's. Everyone here is fully aware of the KU BB history and what Self has done. I have been a KU fan for 50 yrs, so I sure know the history. A couple of subsequent posts grasp what I was saying. Too bad you don't

JayHawkFanToo 9 years ago

TRob has 36 TOs to Tyshawn 56. When you consider the time in each possession that each player has the ball, it is equally likely that a TRob TO will actually cost KU a game. Did you say that? No. TRob lead the team in fouls with 39 to Tyshawn 26. Should we then say that TRob will commit a foul at a critical time that will cost KU the game? The answer is no. You can replace Tyshawn's name with just about any other player using some statistic and the statements would be equally valid. My point is not that Tyshawn will not cost KU a game; maybe he will, maybe he won’t. My point is that some fans seem to concentrate their negativity on Tyshawn shortcomings, regardless of what other players contribute or take away from the team.

LngTimeFan 9 years ago

OK Coach. Let's move along to something else.

Jeeveshawk 9 years ago

Wow did we outrebound KSU, imagine Mizzou putting some 6-6 guy on Thomas and some 6-8 guy on Withey what a joke. I'd be surprised if they got one-third the rebounds we got, especially with how strong Jeff has been playing lately. If he continues to progress he will be our best big next season, and thats saying alot with Perry and Jamari coming. Releford and Johnson won't do poorly next season either, but I fear that Naadir will.

wildjayhawk 9 years ago

It will be interesting when KU goes to the Doom, look for a KST. win there.

Kye Clark 9 years ago

No self-respecting KU fan refers to Bramlage (aka Allen Fieldhouse West) as "the Doom," nor do they predict wins for our rivals.

Jeeveshawk 9 years ago

It can be: The Octagon of Dumb, the Octagon of Gloom, or Bramlage.

mikehawk 9 years ago

Nobody is talking Oklahoma game Saturday. They are coming off of a huge road loss and now have something to prove. We are coming off of a huge "confidence" win. I talked to two Oklahoma fanatics (also called OU football fans down here) who are going to the game in Norman. They haven't been to one in years. They can feel it and they can smell it. The OU and OSU fans down here, and across the Big 12 know this is the year to get KU. They all want a bite out of the Big Dog. Playing "pretty" KU basketball this year is not our deal. This team is about playing ugly, and if they do it with the sheer aggression of last night, we become a tough out. Cruise into Lloyd Noble on Saturday without the aggression, we will ride out 1 and 1. There is no test for a team like being able to win on the road in the conference. Get one under your belt and the next one is easier. Lose the first one, and the next one gets tougher. Lose a second, and it is in your head. KSU is over. Get over it and get ready.

actorman 9 years ago

Good point, mikehawk. This could definitely be a trap game. It'll be interesting to see how KU handles its first real road game of the season. (I would hardly call USC a road game, given that there were probably as many KU fans as USC fans there and the atmosphere was dead.)

sleepy33 9 years ago

mikehawk, these quotes from HCBS on the espn blog should ease your mind:

' “This is one out of 18,” Self said, referring to the Jayhawks’ upcoming Big 12 slate. “This is nothing to get giddy about. All we did was hold serve.” '

'Kansas is 33-7 in Big 12 road games over the past five seasons. “That’s where conference titles are won,” Self said, adding that a victory at Oklahoma on Saturday would excite him even more than the Kansas State win.'

danmoore 9 years ago

The espn highlight said this was KU's 43rd win out of the last 46 games. Is that right?

Andrew Washington 9 years ago

Why did it take 20 years to fire Ted Owens? I try to keep up on Jayhawk history, but I'm not sure about who the candidates were after Harp left..I know that Owens is a great guy and that most other schools would consider Owens record a success- but KU nearly fell out of prominence with him. I think we were the winningest program in college basketball before Ted was hired and then we slipped behind. He had great teams in 71 and 74..but why did it take nearly two decades to finally make the decision to move on??

actorman 9 years ago

For years, he won just often enough to keep his job. Every time he would have a bad stretch, he would follow it up with a good stretch. And besides the two Final Four teams, he also had the great team with Jo Jo White in '66 that barely missed going to the Final Four.

But he made a lot of questionable decisions, especially at the end of close games, and I was glad when they finally fired him.

I'll also take issue with him being a great guy. I have a personal reason for that -- an experience I had at his basketball camp when I was nine years old. I won't go into details, but suffice it to say that he was nowhere near a "great guy."

Andrew Washington 9 years ago

My mistake...I should have said that Owens seems like a great guy-instead of just proclaiming it because I dont really know the guy. I cant say that I've had the experience you had, but I've talked to him and he still has high regard for our basketball program and seems to enjoy talking to Jayhawk fans whenever he bumps into them. I think that you are correct in saying that he won just enough to stay,but i'm really wondering why we didn't ask Dean Smith to come back as early as the late 60s when he had gone to three final fours (including a championship appearance) in 3 years.

actorman 9 years ago

Good question. Imagine how different things might have been. I sure would have liked to have at least one KU conference championship in my five years there, instead of it being Misuse's glory years (at least in the regular season -- thank God Stipanovich and co. choked in the tournament every year).

Andrew Washington 9 years ago

Dean Smith started doing well in the late 60's at UNC-This was well before North Carolina was a common name and well before the arena was named after him..I'm sure he would have come to KU then. (Even though he didn't accept in 88-89 he was a legend at unc by then). I dont know how I got on this topic, but Its got me pretty interested..

actorman 9 years ago

Nice video. One problem, though: the years are wrong. The games were in January of 2011 and 2012, not January of 2010 and 2011.

Otherwise, great job (assuming it's your video).

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