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Monday, February 13, 2012

Keegan

Stats say Taylor deserves Cousy mention

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The Wooden Award. The Naismith Trophy. The Associated Press College Basketball Player of the Year award. The Oscar Robertson Trophy. The Adolph Rupp Trophy.

The Heisman Trophy.

The Heisman is more than 10 times as powerful as any college basketball honor because it stands alone.

College basketball has too many awards, including the Bob Cousy Award, given to the nation’s top point guard.

Too many honors or not, if somebody’s going to select an award-winner, the most deserving finalists need to be identified.

The Cousy Award selection committee almost did that. Almost. Conspicuous by his absence from the field of 11 finalists is Kansas University senior guard Tyshawn Taylor.

Winning percentage is the most important statistic for a point guard, and in that regard the floor-general finalists all grade high. Isaiah Canaan (Murray State), Aaron Craft (Ohio State), Matthew Dellavedova (Saint Mary’s), Scoop Jardine (Syracuse) Damian Lillard (Weber State), Scott Machado (Iona), Kendall Marshall (North Carolina), Phil Pressey (Missouri) and Casper Ware (Long Beach State) all play for teams that either lead their conference standings outright or have a share of first place.

Jordan Taylor’s Wisconsin Badgers are in fourth in the Big Ten, one game out of the lead. Jackson’s Baylor Bears are tied for third in the Big 12.

Had Tyshawn Taylor been a 12th finalist, he would have ranked third in the field with a .451 three-point percentage, tied for third with a .489 field-goal percentage and fourth with 17 points per game. He lags behind most of the field in just one important point guard indicator, an important one. Taylor’s 1.39 assists-to-turnovers ranks ahead of only Ware’s 1.24.

Far more powerful statistical comparisons than those state Taylor’s case more convincingly. He has played five games against Cousy finalists, winning four of them. Taylor’s statistics blow away the combined numbers of the Cousy finalists in head-to-head games against Ware, Craft, Jackson (twice) and Pressey.

In the only KU loss, Taylor played a terrific 36 minutes, a horrific 37th and 38th minutes. He outscored Pressey, 21-2, dominating him at both ends.

Taylor played two of the five games — Long Beach State and Ohio State — with a torn meniscus and was wearing a brace before having surgery.

In the five games, Taylor averaged 17.8 points, 5.8 assists and 5.2 turnovers and shot .533 overall and .550 from three-point range. The finalists combined to average 11.2 points, 4.6 assists and 2.2 turnovers and shot .360 overall and .389 on three-pointers.

Taylor averaged 6.6 points more than his man, and he had 1.2 assists more, which translates to 2.4 points. Put them together, and he’s nine points better. He also committed three more turnovers per game, and since the national average for points per possession is about one, subtract three points. Nine minus three is six. Head-to-head, he was six points better per game than the four finalists he faced. If all five starters were six points better than their man, that’s a 30-point margin of victory.

Taylor, averaging 20.4 points per game in the past nine games, is a great deal closer to being the best point guard in the country than the 12th-best.

Comments

Kye Clark 7 years ago

Love the sentiment and agree Taylor is clearly among the 10 best point guards in the country. Maybe the top 5. The article starts off a little misleadingly when it starts naming off awards for basketball and then states that the Heisman stands alone. While it is true that basketball has multiple awards for the top overall player, there are equivalents of the Cousy award in football. There are numerous position awards - the Biletnikoff Award for wide receivers, the Doak Walker Award for running backs, the Outland Trophy for interior lineman, the Butkus award for linebackers, the Thorpe award for defensive backs, the Mackey Award for tight ends, and the O'Brien award for quarterbacks.

So while it could be argued that college basketball should consolidate the top player honors into a singular award (and all due respect to Coach Wooden, but we all know it should be the Naismith), I don't begrudge the sport for having the Cousy award (it's credibility in question, however, with Taylor's omission among the finalists).

shottybotch 7 years ago

thanks for pointing that out. It bugged me as well

Gregor Southard 7 years ago

You mean a great article backed with statistics?

Michael Bratisax 7 years ago

NFL has MVP, Best Offensive Player, Best defensive player and a slew of other awards..as does college football. They should all slim down the awards.

ict, I would happily see TT included..but he can't hit pressure FTs. KSU was purposely fouling TT and it almost worked.

hawk316 7 years ago

TT has had a truly remarkable senior season and deserves all the accolades that he is receiving. The Lord knows that he has taken more than his share of criticism during the last four years. Way to play, Tyshawn!

ahpersecoachingexperience 7 years ago

We'll let NBA GM's decided if he's top 10 or not. IMO he is

Alohahawk 7 years ago

Good analysis. Statistics don't lie.

Only thing TT has (read "had", now) is the bad rep he had before the season started, and being prone to turnovers. Unfortunately, both have probably played a major part in his being left off the list(s).

As far as turnovers go, one can use the old analogy: You can't hit homeruns without striking out a few times. If TT didn't drive the lane, forcing the defense to adjust, he wouldn't have as many turnovers. But if he didn't drive the lane, would KU have won in some of the closer games?

When it comes to awards, B. Rush probably was the most logical. He didn't worry about them. He left all the weekly awards he won in HCBS's office all season. Self had to keep reminding him to pick them up. Which, I assume he did before he left.

I'd rather all of KU's players use the skills they are best at to their maximum, rather than have the opposition relax on defense. And as ahpersecoachingexperience (hope I spelled it right) says above, let the NBA GM's decide who is best. Afterall, nowadays how much money a person makes seems to be the final analysis for everything anyway.

Dirk Medema 7 years ago

"Stats lie, and liars use stats".

Though that is true, so is the statement that TT deserves to be considered among the top PG's.

One of the things that I notice is that most of these guys are playing small school scheds. If TT were playing against the scheds of Murray State, Ohio State, Saint Mary’s, Weber State, Iona, Missouri, and Long Beach State, his stats and those of the entire team would be 20% better.

jayhawker_97 7 years ago

TT must have one of those awards. he deserves it. his superb performances easily hide his flukes in earlier games. he can't leave KU with at least one award in his senior. we all know he's working very hard to be the best guard in the country :)

fansincewilt 7 years ago

His coach certainly feels he's the best PG in the country.

Woody Cragg 7 years ago

For sure and for the better for damn sure, Taylor's career is peaking at exactly the right time. We are finally seeing the consistancy he has teased us with all these years. He can play as well as anyone in CBB and my $$$ says some NBA GM will be thrilled to get him mid to late first round.

Edward Daub 7 years ago

Keegs, please list the selection committee members.

Taylor is the Joe Rudi of college basketball, under rated.

However, that is probably for the best!

mojayhawk 7 years ago

Good article. Can you find Tyshawn's stats since conference play began? TT's Senior Light came on since conference play has started and he has been a new player. Stats before conference play began probably pulled him down and thus not on the Cousy list. I'd like to see his Big 12 stats including Assist/Turnover ratio.

jhox 7 years ago

Keegan is on a roll...this is one of several good articles he's written recently. He's on the biggest winning streak he's had since arriving at the LJW. Here's to the new and improved Keegan!

Billy Derringer 7 years ago

stay hungry T.T.,man if only E.J. would come out of his funk. message to E.J. Just come out an attack an play loose. i think his shot is bound to come back around, were going to need his gaurd play to count for us to make run.

Rock_Chalk_NYC 7 years ago

Tyshawn should be on this list and could very will win the award based upon his current play.

That said, Tyshawn is a tough NJ kid and this will motivate him more to continue and enhance his excellent play!

Keep up the great work Ty. Keegan said there are too many awards in college basketball and maybe there are, the most important for sure though is a team award that is decided on April 2. Thats the brass you and we all want!

Don Perry 7 years ago

The additional quesiton should be, other than TRob, why is KU getting no mention on the awards talk, in general? This has been an incredible coaching job by Coach Self. Yet, all the Coach of the Year talk is Haith at MO. All Haith had coming back was 90% of his scoring and minutes. The only significant change was losing Bowers. I don't understand the oversight of Self as COTY. Could it be the media is as bad as the KU fans in taking their players and coaches for granted????

mojayhawk 7 years ago

YES! Coach Self is THE best college coach in America, bar none. This year may be his best coaching job ever. If any player wants to develop his skills, he should come to Kansas, period. Coach Manning is the best big man coach anywhere. Coach Self can develop guards like no one else. He knows all of the right buttons to push, and his teams always play as a Team. I for one will never ever ever take Coach Self and staff for granted!

Steve Reigle 7 years ago

TK, I hope you will forward your column to those responsible for that award. It may be too late, but they still should be made aware of their mistake.

REHawk 7 years ago

mojayhawk, go to Big 12 conference/men's basketball, and you can find Tyshawn's stats, both for the year and for the league. He ranks high in many league stats.

7 years ago

Lookin' good on the new avatar, REHawk! :^)

Karen Holmes 7 years ago

We made it to the Semifnal Round for Naismith Student Section of the Year. Don't forget to vote everyday until Feb. 24:

I Love College Hoops Here is the top 16 ranking so far: Kansas, Purdue, Gonzaga, San Diego State, Utah State, Indiana, Duke, Syracuse, West Virginia, Kentucky, Illinois, Cal, Pitt, Colorado, Drexel and Arizona. Student Sections that are in close range of making the Semifinal Round include Michigan, Texas A&M, New Mexico, Virginia, Louisville, and Arizona State.

The 16 student sections with the most votes in the first round advance to the Semifinal Round which begins at 12:00 AM EST on Monday, February 13 lasting until February 24.

On February 25, the eight student sections with the highest popular vote total in the semifinal round will get put in front of the Naismith Board of Selectors for a final vote, which will be partially based on overall votes, video, photo, essay, and other information submitted during a nomination process back in November.

Jeff Coffman 7 years ago

I think that TK mentioned that there were some overrated awards out there. This is embarrassing. There is an award for being a student section...

Joe Joseph 7 years ago

Colorado is in the top 16?

Unless it has experienced some sort of renaissance in the Pac-1200, that is a complete joke.

KGphoto 7 years ago

I think the Duke game killed him. Fair or not, in voters minds he probably went completely off the chart. Even though he reeled it in, mostly, since then, he's been overshadowed by a POY candidate, Relly's Conference Player of the Week and Withey's National Player of the Week. That's a lot to overcome for voters who don't watch every minute of every game like Keegan. If you have that 11 turnover game hanging in the back of your mind, you probably need to see some national individual, positive, recognition to help erase it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm with Keegan. He's a top 5 guy, and the NBA will prove it. But the Duke game on national television in a championship game... looming.

Brianna Zaleski 7 years ago

Agreed. You stole my thunder, but its the point that matters and there is no mistaking that the Duke game continues to haunt him. Every nationally televised game we are in mentions it. Give me a break, good players have bad games all the time. Don't forget too that we aren't even in that game w/out TT's getting into the lane and going to the stripe.

I personally believe that TT in his senior year is one of the best all around PG's I've ever seen. (note the words "seen") I'll even go out on a limb and say that I would takeTT over any PG in recent KU memory. If I was building a team today, I'd take TT, or at least a guard in the mold of him, over just about anyone. Keep in mind, i'm talking TT in his Sr. year only. If he keeps it up, I believe an NBA GM, will see the same.

dylans 7 years ago

I like Taylor too, but Vaughn and Russ Rob. weren't too shabby either.

Sam Constance 7 years ago

You're probably onto something there. Duke/KU was not only nationally televised, but it was a matchup of two "blue bloods" in a championship game of one of the early-season tournaments.

That being said, I fall squarely in the "not fair" categorization of the voters using that to disqualify him from the award in their minds.

The voters of these awards have a responsibility to make an informed decision, so I don't think they get a pass because they don't watch every minute of every game. They don't need to watch the Jayhawks religiously to see that Tyshawn's overall stats line up with the top point guards in the country. In this day and age, statistics and even replays of games are readily available. And while I can forgive the idea of not awarding the most deserving player (people will have differences of opinion when it comes to selecting a single player), what I can't forgive is having the minimal level of informedness to be able to choose the right GROUP of finalists. The committee should be downright ashamed at that kind of ignorance of the game.

How does a starting point guard who has led a "down" Kansas to a 20-5 record, a top ten ranking, contention for a 1-seed not even get mentioned as a finalist for the Cousy award!?

Hell, Pierre Jackson got mentioned and he doesn't even start for his own team.

KGphoto 7 years ago

"And while I can forgive the idea of not awarding the most deserving player (people will have differences of opinion when it comes to selecting a single player), what I can't forgive is having the minimal level of informedness to be able to choose the right GROUP of finalists."

100% truth!

Alohahawk 7 years ago

Even those players ranked highly have bad games. Case in point: This past weekend, POY candidate Sullinger had 10 (or more?) turnovers against Michigan State.

REHawk 7 years ago

KGphoto, I think you hit the nail squarely. A real shame, his double figure turnovers that game. If the list were to be established today, no doubt he would make the cut. The Jayhawk Nation is well aware of what he can do...and has watched his play with intense breath held focus, esp. since that Duke fiasco. If Coach K had the benefits of his talents, Duke would be battling Kentucky and Syracuse today for the top spot nationally. As is, the Jayhawks are gradually approaching that rare opportunity; and TT is one of the essential elements in that ascension. Without him, we would likely be a 60/40 squad...although it is difficult to picture any Bill Self team losing less than 75% of its contests.

Steve Gantz 7 years ago

Something very similar happened last year with Jordan Taylor of Wisconsin. He was in a record assist to turnover ratio season, scoring about 18 points a game. The 10 finalists were listed and he was missing. A big outcry led to him being added to the list, which of course they then gave to someone else.
Maybe if enough of us beat this drum he'll get added to the list.

Jeff Coffman 7 years ago

What disappoints me most is that in the list above (eight listed) five of them are from Mid-Major schools (if that on some of them). Four of the Five wouldn't be a starting PG in a "BCS" caliber school.

Although I agree that historically we haven't given enough credit to Mid-Majors, but I think we have swung the pendulum (sp?) to far in this case.

I am disappointed that a team that is vying for the #1 spot in the Big XII, is headed for another #1 seed in the tournament, and one that is replacing 3 NBA players and 5 players leaving for professional basketball, would get a little credit for its senior led PG.

TT we all know where you belong and don't let them shake your play.

ksyank 7 years ago

Not one guy on that list I'd rather have than Ty. Pressey? Seriously?

Steve Gantz 7 years ago

Jordan Taylor, about to set a career record in assists to turnover ratio, although with as good as Tyshawn has been, it's really a wash between them. Can't comment on the others haven't seen enough.

Steve Gantz 7 years ago

By the way that's an NCAA record he's going to set.

Ben Simonett 7 years ago

I bet if you'd ask any serious basketball coach what the most important statistical indicator of good point guard play is the majority would point to A/TO ratio.

TT is an amazing GUARD, but as his 1.39, indicates he's not an overwhelmingly talented PG.

Everything TT contributes to this team he could just as easilty do at the 2 instead of the 1.

thats why he's not a Cousy finalist.

Steve Gantz 7 years ago

See what I wrote above about Jordan Taylor.

Ben Simonett 7 years ago

Spot on,

Jordan Taylor is the best PG in the nation and its not even close IMO

Sam Constance 7 years ago

I'm sorry, but you are splitting hairs.

Of course the A/T ratio is important from a point guard perspective, but it's incredibly narrow-minded to say that it's SO important that a point guard need not be judge on any other factor. That's what your saying when you claim that Tyshawn Taylor was rightly left off the finalist list because he doesn't have a stellar A/T ratio.

Regardless of whatever reductionist arguments you want to use to frame TT's omission as not only understandable, but correct, the truth is that Tyshawn is a point guard. He logs 90% of his minutes for Bill Self and KU at the PG slot, and his A/T ratio is not amazing, but GOOD ENOUGH to make him a viable candidate based on all the other factors that a point guard contributes to his team. He has the ball in his hand most of the time and initiates/directs the offense. Parsing out his immense talent from his role on the court is foolish.

And speaking of foolish, I suspect that any "serious basketball coach", if asked, would tell you it's insanity to say TT is a good "guard", but not a good "point guard" because of a single statistical measure. I think most of them would pause, look at you funny as they tried to figure out what the hell you were talking about, then say something along the lines of:

"ah... but Tyshawn Taylor IS the point guard at KU. And he's an All-American candidate at that position. But you want me to tell you he isn't a good point guard because he only gets 1.39 assists for every turnover?! What do you have against Tyshawn Taylor"

And the funny thing is that they would have correctly identified that you are a Tyshawn Taylor hater, and must spin everything in a way to illustrate the "truth" about him.

Ben Simonett 7 years ago

I don't consider myself a TT "hater", i will freely admit i'm a TT critic.

I never said his ommision was "understandable" or "correct", i mearly provided a possible explanation for the decision to leave him off the list.

let me give you a hypothetical situation:

say your team already has TT playing at the 2 but you still need to add a PG to play alongside him. If it was possible would you want a second TT playing at the point or would you rather have one of the other "pure PGs" on the list to run the offense?

You need TTs ability on your team, just preferably not at the point. Bill Self himself has stated on multiple occasions that TT is not a true PG.

If there was an award for best guard in america TT is top 10 on that list with out question, but he's not amazingly talented at running an offense and hes rarely the smartest player on the court, prerequisites to being considered an elite PG.

Again, that doesnt mean he isnt deserving of being a cousy finalist, just an honest observation of the situation

Sally Presson 7 years ago

Tyshawn absolutely needs to be on the list!!! And Pressey--come one who picks these candidates anyway? TT if you read these posts, know the KU nation is behind you 100%. keep up the great play.

Justin LoBurgio 7 years ago

Off the subject a bit......I do not like Cal or Kentucky, but this is funny. This was a quote out of an ESPN.com article this morning.

"Two years got vacated, so I'm 51." -- Kentucky coach John Calipari talking about his 53rd birthday Friday.

justinryman 7 years ago

So with that train of thought, isn't he more like 43???

justinryman 7 years ago

Of course not, he's teflon baby, nothing ever sticks to him!

Kye Clark 7 years ago

Yeah I saw that over the weekend and couldn't help but laugh.

machinegun 7 years ago

Tyshawn is the leader of our team and he has done a great job! Of course he deserves to be recognized nationally!

Nick Cole 7 years ago

I don't mind TT being left off the list. He has been great in conference play for the most part, but he still has mental lapses. Taylor has had some key turnovers in most, if not all, of our losses. Yes we would be much worse off w/o him, but you can't deny these facts. TT being slighted on this list gives him something to prove, keeps him hungry. If he has this kind of mindset, being left off the list will make him a better player the rest of the season. He should be on the list, but I'm not upset he was slighted.

packywacky88 7 years ago

WTF? Clean out the ole meth pipe.

Kye Clark 7 years ago

Just ignore him. He comes on and blabs for a few lines, maybe with one shred of truth surrounded by a pack of lies. Bobby Knight is in fact all over their guards' jocks. Who cares? If he's calling the game tonight he's just as likely to pick KU to the Final Four too, in between his endless comments about wanting players to use the shot fake.

Joseph Kuebel 7 years ago

What exacly is couch Bball playing? And also, I did not know that there was so much running, jumping, and dunking on the court during commercials/timeouts.

Joseph Kuebel 7 years ago

Hrm not sure how this comment posted where it did. Meant to be below...

Jeff Coffman 7 years ago

That is funny...MU in the Final Four...there has to be a first for everything...Missouri loses they aren't even a #1 seed, remember the Big XII won't do them any favors.

Sam Constance 7 years ago

I'm surprised that old Bobby "I hate the three pointer" Knight is so in love with a bunch of guards who like to take the three. Especially off-balance threes from way to deep with a hand in their face.

But then again, Mr. Knight seems to be getting more senile each time I listen to him, so maybe it's just better to not cite any Bobby Knight Circa 2012 commentary as anything but comic relief.

JayHawkFanToo 7 years ago

How do you extrapolate comments from one semi-senile, former basketball coach to... "all the experts"?

Wayne Seymour 7 years ago

TT makes mistakes on his own, he loses the ball three or four times a game without being pushed by defense or having anyone around him. Do not think a point guard should lose the ball on their own and with out being pushed, yet he does it 3 or 4 times per game. Just do not think he has a true mind at times in what he is suppose to do. At times he tries to go too fast, he is very good, but not one of the top five

PurePierce 7 years ago

Correct me if I am wrong, but weren't the nominees for the Cousy picked earlier on this year? If they were, how many of us would have nominated Tyshawn? Didn't we decry the fact after each game that we wished we had a point guard that could throw a successful pass, that could attack the rim without taking out three defenders, that didn't dribble into, but not out of, trouble?

People referred to the Tyshawn haters, but we didn't hate the kid, just his play. I personally ragged on him so much that even I got tired of hearing me. Then one day I had a thought. We have an older dog that has "leaked" his whole life due to a puppyhood accident. We've never held it against him and have always loved him. Well, I decided, we have a point guard that "leaks", but it was turnovers, not urine. From that point on I have loved him for what he has done well, in fact, well enough to have been at the helm of one of the winningest programs ever.

Shortly after my revelation Tyshawn made one the most stunning turnarounds I've ever seen an athlete make. He as eliminated virtually every one of his weaknesses and elevated the rest of his game to be spoken of as one of the best point guards in the nation. Heck, if he were playing the 2 he would also be one of the best shooting guards in the nation.

So maybe he has come on too late to win a Cousy, but not too late to win a national championship. We can all be extremely proud and happy to have such a talented, tough, and obviously intelligent kid as our team's point guard

Kye Clark 7 years ago

Good point about the timing of picking the finalists. They were selected in early January I believe. It demonstrates a flaw in the process.

The one thing I still want to see from him is to come up clutch in the final minutes of a close game. That is the one "weakness" that hasn't been eliminated yet.

REHawk 7 years ago

TT might own a history of more mistakes and turnovers than the top 5 point guards, but he can do an accumulation of positive things that few Div. I guards can do. Compare his five most outlandish contortionist buckets this season with the best five of any five point guards in the nation. Would probably be impossible to unearth his match.

HawkKlaw 7 years ago

The only reason TT won't get the attention that other PG's do is because of his turnovers. I agree with Keegan though - TT should be, at the very least, in the top 10 of anybody's list. He is the leader of a 20-5 squad that is, up to this point, doing much better than most of us anticipated. TT is a huge part of that.

HawksWin 7 years ago

TT played his first 35+ min games back in Nov in Maui with back to back against Georgetown, and note TT loses the ball late in the game -- it is called the fatigue. Remember, couch bball playing dumbs our brain, and blinds our eyes. 35+ mins of playing time translates to an 1 hr 30 mins of running, dribbling, passing, jumping, dunking on the court? A 40 min game = a 2 hours of entertainment on the couch?

Joseph Kuebel 7 years ago

What exacly is couch Bball playing? And also, I did not know that there was so much running, jumping, and dunking on the court during commercials/timeouts?

HAWKTOPIA 7 years ago

TT's problem is television. smaller schools in obscure markets do not get the viewing TT does. If you watch him, he's not in the competition. Stats are confusing as a tool to predict performance. Look at most our shortcomings. Completely unpredicted by the stats. But ratio this and that, we have usually lost because of free throw percentage.

This is the golden egg of this years team. we sink the shots at the line. Oh, but did you watch TT miss those 2 at MU? thats not top 10 material.

Statistic me that Batman!

Kye Clark 7 years ago

Zig got me thinking about an interesting scenario - if you were building a team, what KU PG would you take? Zig says he'd take Tyshawn, qualifying that pick by saying "senior year Tyshawn."

For me, the best pure point guard I've seen here has been Aaron Miles. He averaged 6.9 assists over his 4 year career, over 7 assists/game his final 2 years. Very good defender. And by his senior year he was a capable outside shooter. To me the essence of a point guard is making those around you better, and the assist numbers prove he was as good as anyone at getting the rock to his teammates in a position to score.

RussRob was the best defender we've had at the PG spot in my opinion. Sherron was maybe the most clutch (UNI game notwithstanding). Jacque brought a dynamic very similar to Tyshawn in his ability to drive, but differed in that he often looked to pass first.

Back to Tyshawn. If I were starting a team, where would Tyshawn rank on the list of PGs? It's tough to say. For two years he was playing out of position behind Sherron, starting at the 2. He went from having to be an impact player his freshman year, to glue his sophomore year, to slightly less glue at his natural position of PG his junior year, and back to impact player this year. No one else on the list had such dramatic changes in their roles over their 4 years here. So where would I take him? Guess it depends on the rest of the team. If you give me another 2 scorers on the team I'd take someone else before Tyshawn. But on this team, Tyshawn HAS to score. Miles didn't have to be his team's first or second scoring option. Neither did Jacque or RussRob.

The genius of Self is getting exactly what he wants out of his PGs. RussRob, Sherron, Tyshawn - all played exactly the kind of roles their particular teams needed of them. It's hard to compare based on the different needs of their respective teams, so I'll refine the question to say on this team, out of all of KU's point guards who would you want? As much as it shocks me to say this given my criticisms of him at various points in his career, I think Tyshawn would be my choice. I still think he needs to perform better in the clutch to get this team where we want to go, but with his athletic gifts, good defense, ability to drive, and plus trey gun...no one else could fill the needs quite like Tyshawn has.

FLJHK 7 years ago

If you're talking all-time, Jo Jo White would have to be the choice.

But of more recent times, I'd take TT.

Kye Clark 7 years ago

Obviously you can pick whoever you want. I was going only off guys that I've seen play. I'm only 33 so I was just a young KU fan who probably didn't know what a PG was during the Larry Brown era.

PurePierce 7 years ago

+1 on Jo Jo, and of all the PGs mentioned, TT's game is probably closest to him, with his current combination of ball handling, defense, and offense.

Steve Brown 7 years ago

JoJo White Darnell Valentine Kirk.H J.Vaughan. tie: RussRob/TTaylor

Who is missing?

The old.timers told me Charlie Black was the best we ever had. Days before games were in Hoch in the old Robinson gym.

A couple years ago some blogger came on and as much as we should name Collins as the all time best KU guard and retire his jersey without the waiting period, I returned a comment that in a couple years he won't be considered in our top 5.

Loved Sherron, yet not the best we've had, yes I know about his all time victories.

JayHawkFanToo 7 years ago

Kevin Pritchard, made the first 3 pointer at AFH and was the PG for the '88 Championship team. Adonis Jordan, led the team to two Final Fours. Aaron Miles led KU to two Final Fours.

jhox 7 years ago

Speaking of point guards named Taylor, there is a Sophomore at Grandview high that I hope Bill Self and company keep a very close eye on. His name is Tyrone Taylor. He's probably 6'2" now (I believe his dad is 6 '5 or 6'6" so he's likely to grow.) He's got great ball handling skills, comfortable with both hands, explosive first step. I hear he had 2 dunks Friday night, one with 2 hands and scored 20. Not bad for a sophomore point.

I don't believe he's been a big scorer because from what I hear he doesn't need to be a big scorer on his current team, but he's apparently hitting a high percentage of his 3's. I've seen him a couple of times and loved his ball handling, court vision, and unselfishness. Gets into the lane at will. He reminds me a lot of Tyshawn...thin, long arms, great athleticism. Less careless with the ball than Tyshawn was early in his career (or this season for that matter, of course high school defenses make that a little easier.)

I think he's been a little under the radar because he's not been looking to score a lot. I just hope he isn't one of those guys that KU is late to the party on, like Alec Burks or Willie Collie.

I know KU's had him to the elite camp already (mainly because he plays for Pump and Run), but I worry that I'm not seeing his name mentioned as a possible KU target. He is a true point guard and unselfish, gets into the lane with ease. Unfortunately, guys who don't put up big points don't generally get a fair look from the big programs. I understand MU had him at their game Saturday, and other schools are starting to contact him. I just hope we're not late to the party, because point guards with his size and quickness don't end up in your back yard every year.

Kye Clark 7 years ago

Willie Cauley is weak. Don't worry about us not getting in on him.

As to this Tyrone Taylor kid, sounds like he might be pretty solid. I haven't seen him play, and obviously a lot of kids look good in high school. Just so hard to judge against that level of competition. Usually we don't start hearing much about potential recruits until their junior years. Obviously there are some exceptions, but I couldn't name another kid that's a sophomore now that KU is actively recruiting.

Clarence Haynes 7 years ago

IMO, many times, there is too much bitching and moaning about TT's play in local media coverage, which gets picked up nationally. I was glad that Coach Self called in on criticsm of TT as it was getting out of hand. This however, could be a reason for him not being a finalist.

Sam Constance 7 years ago

Based on several of the comments on this board, Tyshawn will always be a polarizing figure.

The kid has been a huge factor in KU's ability to stay at the top of the Big 12 race and is playing better of the last dozen games or so than he has ever played before, and it might be up there with all-time 12-game stretches for ANY KU point guard.

Yet you still have people on here commenting that they aren't really upset by his lack of inclusion as a FINALIST (not winning) on the Cousy Award list. How does that work? For a Kansas basketball fanatic to see his/her senior point guard LEADER, who has led Kansas to unexpected heights and has turned this team into quite a contender not to have the undying, unquestioning, die-hard support of his fan base? What the hell is wrong with some of you!?

He's our senior leader point guard. He deserves to be MENTIONED with the other top PGs in the country. Not win. MENTIONED. He deserves to have his fan base stand behind him and demand respect from the national media on his behalf, the same way we've done for countless other bleed-crimson-and-blue Jayhawks.

Mike Kendall 7 years ago

TT is definitely in the Top 5 of point guards in the Nation. He has proven that. He has taken the burden of the team's success on his shoulders. Keep plugging away Tyshawn. Good luck tonight VS the Wildcats.

mikehawk 7 years ago

With Tyshawn, you live by the sword and you die by the sword. The kid is a lightening rod from day one. Everyone has an opinion about TT. You can scream at him one minute in extreme frustration, and he can drop your jaw in the next with an amazing play. In the end, he has been here all 4 years, and a starter most of the time from day one other when in his coach's dog house. His grades must be OK, and he appears to love Kansas. No telling what he has to hear in his ear every day in practice from his coach. His toughness, no one questions that any more. Heck, he picked a fight with the football team for gosh sakes, and did what most of us would never consider, which is play two games on a torn miniscus. Going to the rack...the kid is fearless. (Take a note Elijah) Love him or hate him...admit it, we've been entertained. He is like a train wreck, we can't seem to take our eyes off of him. The kid has no idea what boring means. Win or lose, let's give the kid his props these last days of an amazing run and just love him. The likes of him won't be forgotten around these parts soon. My fantasy is he drops the microphone when handed to him on Senior Night, then looks up and says, "sorry...one last turnover on the Fieldhouse floor."

siamsam 7 years ago

I wonder - could TT be the winningest 4 year starter in KU history? I'd love for someone more stat-savvy to check it out.

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