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Wednesday, February 8, 2012

Keegan

Styles of Self, Drew differ

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— Kansas and Baylor — two of three schools that, along with Missouri, headed into the week with a share of first place in the Big 12 basketball standings — illustrate that not all programs in the top 10 in the national rankings take the same path.

KU coach Bill Self’s way has worked better and for longer than BU coach Scott Drew’s, but it’s difficult to argue with Drew’s method at the moment since his team, which features McDonald’s All-Americans Perry Jones III, Quincy Miller and several other serious talents, is ranked sixth in the country.

Self, coaching without a McDonald’s All-American on the roster for the first time since his 1999-2000 Tulsa squad, has power forward Thomas Robinson, a national player of the year candidate, and point guard Tyshawn Taylor, a first-team All-Big 12 contender, three juniors with pretty good talent, and sixth and seventh men recruited to KU as walk-ons. The Jayhawks are ranked seventh in the nation.

In recent years, Drew has hit more recruiting grand slams than Self, who wins more than Drew.

Based on how it looks from the outside, Drew must promise starting assignments to top recruits. Self makes his players earn spots, the best means of getting them to do what he wants. It’s not what a coach wants his players to do that separates coaches. It’s getting all five players on the court to do what he wants them to do that makes a coach stand above peers.

The best means of achieving that is to ride players and withhold playing time until they stop fighting the coach and play intensely and unselfishly. Once Marcus and Markieff Morris understood doing it the coach’s way was the only way, they shot up the draft boards and became lottery picks.

Given the comparative traditions — Clyde Lovellette, Wilt Chamberlain, Jo Jo White, Danny Manning, Paul Pierce, James Naismith, Phog Allen, Larry Brown, Roy Williams and Self for Kansas; Terry Teagle for Baylor — Self has a recruiting advantage enhanced when figuring in the home-court atmospheres.

A Tuesday night Google of “Baylor basketball tradition” showed three results, compared to “about 23,600” for “Kansas basketball tradition.”

Drew closes that gap by exploiting the instant-gratification society in which we live.

If self-improvement and a long and lucrative pro career are the motivating factors in a high school superstar’s decision, Self has more to sell.

Coming out of high school in 2010, Jones (ranked ninth by Rivals) already had been branded a potential No. 1 overall pick. Robinson, ranked 31st in his class, was considered a “maybe” as an NBA prospect. Most draft projections now have the shorter Robinson, who has learned more in his basketball education, listed ahead of Jones.

Comments

REHawk 2 years, 2 months ago

What's Drew's winning record now in his years at Baylor. around 60%? I'm betting that Fred Hoiberg the Mayor posts 10% better numbers than that if he stays 8 years at Ames. Drew appears to rely heavily upon Decision by Committee in his gametime interaction with assistants. The guy can recruit...presumably because he can guarantee top 20 recruits starting minutes, right from the getgo. However, as an Xs and Os tactician, he can't climb above 5.5 on the Bill Self Ten Point Scale.

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Ralster Jayhawk 2 years, 2 months ago

Stop with any soft sentiments regarding Scott Drew. Self>>>Drew in every desirable way, including recruiting.

Keegan's point about "no McDAAs for Self since his final Tulsa squad", fails to mention Self c.o.a.c.h.e.d those Tulsa guys to a 32-5 record and an Elite8 appearance...

Bill Self = A+ rated coach. The evidence is clear, and comparing to Scott Drew is an absolute joke. Why dont you compare Brad Stevens (who does more with less talent) to Drew, or maybe Shaka (if he proves more than a 1yr wonder, like Ben Jacobsen of UNI...who?). I like Josh Pastner a bit better than Scott Drew, but he hasnt proved that much either yet.

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BReakinggOOd 2 years, 2 months ago

Yes, Self & Drew differ greatly. Bill Self can coach AND recruit. And once again, it appears Scott Drew can ONLY recruit.

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William Blake 2 years, 2 months ago

"A Tuesday night Google of “Baylor basketball tradition” showed three results, compared to “about 23,600” for “Kansas basketball tradition.” "

Here... I can help you balance out the Google search numbers. Try the following searches:

Baylor basketball scandal (583,000 results)

Baylor basketball violations (474,000 results)

Baylor basketball recruiting violations (122,000 results)

Baylor basketball ncaa violations (476,000 results)

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JayHawkFanToo 2 years, 2 months ago

This is a very poorly researched piece. You cannot write an article that compares HC Self with Scott Drew and not mention all the questionable tactics used by Drew. Google "Scott Drew cheating" and you will get over 400,000 hits, Here is one article that explores just the tip of the iceberg:

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/ncb/columns/story?columnist=caplan_jeff&id=4979714

Drew is following on Calipari's footsteps and it is just a matter of time (and if there is justice in this world) before they are both busted.

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Chris Shaw 2 years, 2 months ago

One other thing people, things do change over time. You have to remember how much dislike there was initially when Coach K started impeding into the holy grail of UNC and Dean Smith.

Coach K IMO is a lot like Scott Drew way back in the day except the technology world documents everything these days so "Fans" get a more up close look and the behind the scenes inner workings.

UNC and Dean Smith claimed all sorts of stuff on Coach K. However, over time Coach K got his piece of the pie and is now as respected a coach as there is in the game. Jaybate, I already know what you're going to say about "Ratface" Coach K! LMAO!

Again, I'm not trying to compare Coach K and Scott Drew directly, but their situations when they took over really bad programs were and some of the same things that UNC fans were saying about Coach K are essentially the same things that KU fans are saying about Scott Drew.......................It's just that it's more documented now so there is more of a leg to stand on when dipicting somebody.

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REHawk 2 years, 2 months ago

budsitz, I do not recall LaceDarius staying out of trouble. Jones III was grounded for a spell this season. Class act at AFH a couple of years ago, removing his players from the pre-game floor? S.c.o.t.t Drew? Are we talking about the same guy?

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Jason Keller 2 years, 2 months ago

Scott Drew is garbage. Complete garbage. Lyer and a cheater. Don't worry Scotty, the Jayhawks will keep you on ESPN tonight.

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Scott Smetana 2 years, 2 months ago

Drew somehow recruits and gets incredible talent.
However, how many times have they underperformed?
How many times have they even made the tourney with this incredible talent? They hands down have the best talent in the league this year and likely won't win the league or make it past the sweet 16.

Therefore, I truly think Drew is one of the worst coaches in the game. Anyone disagree?

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William Blake 2 years, 2 months ago

"three juniors with pretty good talent"

...that need to step up now!

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Randy Maxwell 2 years, 2 months ago

If Drew somehow gets this team to the final 4 this year he will have the same amount of final 4 appearances as Self has

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Alex Berger 2 years, 2 months ago

Here's to guessing that most of those recruits out there don't know who Clyde Lovellette or Jo Jo White are.

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jaybate 2 years, 2 months ago

Homer Drew has won 60% of his games and a third of them at Bethel College. From 94 to 04 he won five titles in a weak conference and so got automatic bids to the the NCAA, where he went out in the first round 6 times and got to the Sweet 16 once. Since 04, he has been .500 in the same week conference. He took a year off to let the university hire his son, who then promptly bailed on Valpo for a motion play to Baylor.

Homer Drew got cancer.

The Valpo job went to his son, Bryce, next.

Bryce Drew played for his father and coached for his father. Bryce was Indiana's Mr. Basketball in high school. He did get drafted and play a few seasons in the L. As an assistant, he returned to assist Homer in 04-05 and participated in coaching Valpo to .500 basketball for a number of years, before being promoted to head coach this year, when his father reportedly got prostate cancer. As a head coach, this season, he is 17-8, which is a major improvement over the previous several years of .500 ball.

Scott? He is 165-128. He has turned around a scandal ridden program, and in the process reputedly encountered some accusations of inappropriate recruiting himself, about the time his level of talent he recruited conspicuously began to improve sharply. IMHO, the jury is still out on Scott Drew.

if you believe that hiring your own sons is a virtue, Home Drew is a class act.

If you believe in .500 ball, a short run of titles in a weak conference, early outs in the Madness, and a recent decade of .500 ball are signs of a class act, then Homer Drew is your quintessential class act.

If you believe that one 3.4 finished season at 17-8 is sufficient evidence to call a person a class act, then Bryce Drew is a class act.

If you believe that Scott's 165-128 record, coupled with a sudden improvement in talent levels recruited coinciding with a sudden improvement in winning percentage the last 4 years, plus some reputed accusations of program improprieties in basketball defines a class act, then Scott Drew is a class act.

The question is: do you?

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jhawkrulz 2 years, 2 months ago

Drew Scott has done a lot for the program at Baylor. No one can dismiss his ability to recruit. I would also believe that prior to his arrival he could promise playing time to future recruits because he was able to quickly evaluate that the talent he had wasn't adequate for the Big XII level. I think you could say the same of Charlie Weis at KU, he was able to quickly eliminate certain players because of the lack of ability to play at the D1 level. One key difference is managing talent once you get it. To me this has always been what Bill Self (and the legacy KU Coaches) have been able to do. It is really hard to have a bench of 15 and manage who gets playing time and who doesn't. It is difficult to tell a player as talented as Releford (among others) that red-shirting when he could start anywhere in the nation that is good for him. KU last year got caught up on the NBA lockout, indecision by players wanting to leave early, and a couple of curve balls, but I think that BS clearly goes after the top recruits and gets them. Baylor has been able to deliver on the recruits, but clearly their teams have underperformed over the past few years. It'll be interesting, if KU and MU beat them twice and a couple of other loses, with as this article mentions, prospects dropping in draft status, don't think that Baylor's success will become a tradition.

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budsitz 2 years, 2 months ago

Anyone who has followed Homer Drew and his sons, knows that they are all class acts. Nothing speaks more to his character, than Scott's willingness to step into the disaster and start the process of building a longterm basketball powerhouse. Simply put, Scott is a very successful recruiter and his teams play hard. They also stay out of trouble and graduate. I would think that would warrant praise - not a one-sided comparison against Bill Self. Over the next few years, Waco may be a harder place for an opposing team to win than Lawrence. In any event, this group of KU guards are not tough enough on defense or the offensive boards to win in Waco. I mean, when was the last time you saw any of the KU guards take a charge? When was the last time you saw Johnson or Teahan drive to the basket and get to the foul line? The key will be Reilford and Withey. When KU plays well, he is the one getting to the 50/50 ball and coming up with critical offensive rebounds. Jeff has to have a good offensive game.

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Phoggie_Thinking 2 years, 2 months ago

Not sure if I like an article like this coming out on gameday. Seems that it could be more fodder for the other guys, but here we go.

This is surely another proof that LJW does not work for KU. Which is a good thing.

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REHawk 2 years, 2 months ago

Regardless of the outcome in Waco this evening, the Kansas squad plays under the mentorship of the best head coach in Division I hoops. When Roy Williams walked out the door, the Spirit of the Phog continued to smile graciously over the Jayhawk Nation.

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flyingfinn 2 years, 2 months ago

Drew is trying to go the Callipari route, needs a new hair style with a ton of oil but he is getting there.

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blowhard 2 years, 2 months ago

Baylor: Both Men's and Women's teams are in the Top 10 while a guy on the football team wins the Heisman Trophy...what a remarkable accomplishment for the Baylor Athletic Department...nothing like this ever happened in the good ol' corrupt days of the Southwest Conference, now did it?

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justinryman 2 years, 2 months ago

Bill Self a man, a coach with class. He carries himself in a manner that not only makes his fans proud, but his players, his bosses and I'm sure his family.

Scott Drew, tries to show up the other coach, walking his team back into the tunnel while the home team is being introduced. Uses the media to whine about things not going his way.

Bill Self is first rate and isn't looking for the next big paycheck, just ask Boone. Scott Drew I'm not so sure about, he almost seems to have that Calapari thing going for him. I guess time will tell on that though.

Glad to have coach Self and his staff at Kansas, that is for sure.

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iamakufan 2 years, 2 months ago

This article should be included in whatever KU information packet is sent to prospects.

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jhox 2 years, 2 months ago

My guess is that Drew promises (and delivers) a lot more than playing time. Why else would all of these elite players go to a school that has proven nothing on the court? I've heard that fellow Big 12 coaches talk a lot about what's going on at Baylor, and don't much like it.

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Andini 2 years, 2 months ago

I thought Jeff Withey was a McDonald's all American?

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kusayzone 2 years, 2 months ago

Nice article Tom. It does lay it on the table, and if you throw in HCBS's win/ loss record, offensive and defensive numbers, one has to be glad to be a Jayhawk!

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