Kansas defeats Baylor, 68-54

  • 6 p.m., Feb. 8, 2012
  • The Ferrell Center, Waco, TX

Wednesday, February 8, 2012

Jeff Withey bears down

Kansas big man ‘amazing’ against Baylor

Thomas Robinson (0) left congratulates Jeff Withey (5) at the end of the Jayhawks 68-54 win over the Baylor Bears, Wednesday, Feb. 8, 2012 at Baylor. Withey had a career high 25 points in the win.

Thomas Robinson (0) left congratulates Jeff Withey (5) at the end of the Jayhawks 68-54 win over the Baylor Bears, Wednesday, Feb. 8, 2012 at Baylor. Withey had a career high 25 points in the win.


Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Bill Self

Kansas coach Bill Self talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 68-54 victory over Baylor on Feb. 8, 2012.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

Baylor coach Scott Drew

Baylor coach Scott Drew talks to reporters following the Bears' 68-54 loss to Kansas on Feb. 8, 2012.

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KU vs. Baylor

Box score

— A little peer pressure helped Jeff Withey bury Baylor on Wednesday night in Ferrell Center.

“We’ve been screaming at him every day at practice, punching him in his chest, jumping on him, trying to get him fired up,” Kansas University senior guard Tyshawn Taylor said after Wednesday’s Withey-led 68-54 rout of the Bears.

Withey, a 7-footer from San Diego, scored 25 points off 8-of-10 shooting and 9-of-11 free throwing just four days after scoring zero points in a 74-71 loss at Missouri.

“He came out and played amazing, man,” Taylor added after watching Withey explode for 17 points the first half alone, surpassing his previous career-high scoring mark of 15 points set against Oklahoma on Feb. 1. “I’m so happy with my big fella right now.”

Withey, who scored five points in a 14-3 run to close the first half and turn a 10-point deficit into a 33-30 lead, also had six points to Taylor’s 10 in a 23-2 surge that upped a 33-32 lead to 56-34 with 12:40 left.

He admits his teammates have been on him a bit since the MU game.

“Tyshawn (19 points, 4-of-7 three-point shooting), Elijah (Johnson, no points, five assists, 37 minutes) and Thomas (Robinson, 15 points, 11 boards) ... every practice, if I mess up they’re are all over me. They expect a lot out of me. I expect a lot out of them,” Withey said.

“We keep each other accountable. They definitely try to get me fired up, whether it’s punching me in the chest or whatever.”

Withey, who also had five rebounds, six turnovers and three blocks in 29 minutes Wednesday, said coach Bill Self also has been in his ear.

“Coach definitely got in my head. He told me I can’t go games where I don’t score. I have to be part of this team and help out,” Withey said. “My teammates trusted me today. They made great plays and found me open.”

Self scoffed when informed of Withey’s words.

“These guys are unbelievable coming up with stuff to tell you guys (media) that doesn’t have anything to do with anything,” Self cracked. “I don’t know what I told him. It wasn’t anything different than what I usually tell him.”

Self was mighty impressed with Withey’s effort on a day the No. 7-ranked Jayhawks (19-5) forced a tie with Missouri for the Big 12 Conference lead at 9-2 and pulled ahead of No. 6-rated Baylor (21-3, 8-3).

“It’s probably about as good offensively as we’ve had a big man play here (in Self’s nine seasons at KU). Cole (Aldrich) had some good games. I don’t know if he had any better than that. He was great. We needed him to be great tonight,” Self said. “We get one point out of two starters (Travis Releford had one point in 24 minutes and Johnson none in 37 minutes). That means some guys pitched in and played well.”

Withey said the Jayhawks made some adjustments on the fly after falling behind 19-9 early.

“We decided to change plays against their zone, have somebody always in the middle. It just opened up,” Withey said. “They way we were matched up, it left me open every time.”

Again, Self refused to take credit for any specific plays to help turn around the team after a slow beginning.

“We attacked their zone well the first time we played them,” Self said of KU’s 92-74 victory over the Bears on Jan. 16 in Allen Fieldhouse. “We tried to attack it similarly tonight. They did a better job with that. I don’t know if it was great adjustments. It was guys getting in gaps and playing.”

Conner Teahan had eight points off the bench on a day just five Jayhawks scored. KU held Perry Jones III to five points off 1-of-8 shooting in 25 minutes.

“Thomas played great defense. We decided to trap the post. I think it bothered him a lot,” Withey said. “Thomas played straight up on him, and it forced him to take awkward shots.”

Pierre Jackson scored 16, while Quincy Acy and Cory Jefferson had 11 apiece for BU.

KU will meet Oklahoma State at 3 p.m. Saturday in Allen Fieldhouse.


Scott MacWilliams 9 years, 9 months ago

WOW!! Great Game Hawks!!

I know it hurt to drop that final game in Mizzou, but I agree with HCBS, I liked what I saw there in terms of overall effort and teamwork. Not many brainfarts, except right at the end, and you had a little help there...

But the way you stepped it up tonight was OUTSTANDING!!!. TRob sits with 2 fouls, 5:20 in the first half, and you respond by going on a run for the rest of the game!! Held a clinic on Baylor and made all those McD AA's look like they needed some fries!!




Michael Bratisax 9 years, 9 months ago

Amazing game... Hard to question Self after that performance but was surprised not to see Tharpe late in the game when TT and EJ were both obviously tired. I can see Tharpe transferring..the competition for minutes next year will be intense.

Kye Clark 9 years, 9 months ago

I guess it's EJ's turn the next few days in practice to have guys screaming at him and punching his chest. Great game, great win, but come on EJ. This team needs him to be a threat to score to take us to the next level.

Maybe Travis shouldn't get a little bit of the treatment as well. Heck maybe more so, seeing how's we've seen him go off for 20+ this year a couple times.

Hank Cross 9 years, 9 months ago

Defintitely. Those two need to wake up big time. If KU could play the other team 3 on 3 with TRob, TT, and Withey, you probably wouldn't know they were missing. March is coming fast.

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 9 months ago

Withey has disappeared more than once this year also.. As for Travis, he is out there for his defense...any scoring is an added bonus.

KULA 9 years, 9 months ago

I agree. After the game, I felt like, "Is EJ even part of this team?" Granted, he dished 5 assists, but the kid's gotta score, and he's gotta take it to the hoop. I can't believe I'm saying it, but Conner actually looked more effective on offense.

lincase 9 years, 9 months ago

In his defense, the man he was guarding didn't score either.

hawk316 9 years, 9 months ago

EJ has become one of our better defenders and doesn't have to score to contribute. Having said that, I think he is capable of so much more. With his athleticism, he should be driving to the basket much more and shooting less 3's.

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 9 months ago

I think HCBS had EJ on too short of a leash. Yeah,he made his share of mistakes, but so did TT.

TT was getting major minutes starting in his 1st season...Now look at him. He will be a late 1st round draft pick or an early 2nd round.

Obviously pure conjecture on my part but I believed it will be shown correct come draft time.

JHWK 9 years, 9 months ago

I agree - not that I don't want to enjoy what is really JW's moment, but the inconsistent play of EJ and Travis is really disconcerting. As other good Jayhawk posters have noted - they are playing very well on the defensive end, as is the oft-slow-footed Connor Three-ball. Still, we have seen nights when one or the other of these two play like combinations of Brandon, Tyshawn and Keith Langford!

Where do they go after those games? Too many schooners at Louise's?? Harbour Lights? I just don't get it. They are our future, and they should be filling it up, what with teams focusing on the ever-inspiring acrobatics of our beloved TT. EJ has as much pure athletic ability as anyone on the court, but he is really (seemingly) suffering from a lack of offensive self esteem.

Help me see past my concern, brethren!

Matt Kenton 9 years, 9 months ago

Elijah had an off night going 0 for 6 (4 of them threes) but Releford was just 0 for 1. Attacking the middle with Withey and him going 8 for 10 (and 9-11 FT) I'm fine with Releford taking one shot. In a perfect world, EJ would have hit a few of those three's, but come one. There are only so many possessions and shots to go around. The way things went last night, I am fine with those shots going to Withey, T-Rob, and Tyshawn.

My only concern is that EJ's confidence is not shattered after the final seconds in Columbia. But we are 11 games into an 18 game conference schedule. Plenty of time for him to get his head right by March and this team to peak at the right time.

Curtis Stutz 9 years, 9 months ago

0 for 1 from Releford is worse in my mind, he has to want to take some shots and contribute offensively KU probably has more dangerous games left than MU, they've squeaked out a lot of wins on the road. Have to get both TRel and EJ in attack mode as KU might need to win out to keep MU out of the conference winners circle.

Matt Kenton 9 years, 9 months ago

If we can get 25 points out of Withey, we won't lose.

MimiHawk 9 years, 9 months ago

EJ always plays well when he has relatives in the stands... I hope his family are planning to be at the rest of our games!

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 9 months ago

Unfortunately, I believe you are correct w/EJ for the reasons I stated above, But Travis? He is the most consistent performer on defensive. He was not needed to put up good scoring stats w/Baylor..but when needed, he produces.

PVJayhawk 9 years, 9 months ago

More than a year ago I predicted-to the derision of all-that Withey would be a force some day. I believe I have now been proven correct.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

And you deserve to take a bow.

I didn't know what to expect.

I still don't. 0 against knee-highs in Columbia. 25 against draft choices in Waco.

But he is just a damned talented player, when he is on.

Michael Pannacciulli 9 years, 9 months ago

He was so on last night it was really fun to watch. He did everything...was everywhere...kept the intensity all night...very impressive. I am sure he turned the head of one of those many NBA scouts. Another year in the out. It is just great to see him putting it all together at this point in the season.

Tony Bandle 9 years, 9 months ago

JB ..don't be so modest. you've been touted JW for two years.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

Ladies first, Oak, ladies first. :-)

Tony Bandle 9 years, 9 months ago apologies...absolutely ladies first!!

jhox 9 years, 9 months ago

I don't know that I ever expected him to have the kind of offensive game he had last night, but I knew the first time I saw him at his first "Late Night" that he was going to help us at some point. I just remember thinking for a guy his height, he could really get off the floor. Good hops in a 7 footer meant, if nothing else, he would be a force defensively for us at some point. He has soft hands, good shooting touch. I wish those hands were a little stronger at times, but I'm glad to see his game developing.

Now if we could just get Releford and Johnson going. I think Travis frustrates me the most. I've never seen a guy who is such a natural scorer be so shy about trying to score. We need him knifing into the paint and throwing up short jumpers. That is his strongest asset and he needs to take advantage of it regularly.

Joshua Hann 9 years, 9 months ago

Remember a player by the name of Rush?.....

Curtis Stutz 9 years, 9 months ago

+1 Difference is Rush played on a stacked team with scorers like Arthur, Chalmers, Collins and some scoring punch off the bench, but even then he needed to attack more. Baylor may have been a difficult matchup for Releford offensively, but he should light up a bunch of guys trying to guard him the rest of the way.

yates33333 9 years, 9 months ago

You overstate the opposition by saying "I predicted to the derision of all." He looks like a genuine 7 footer and most realized he could be a major force. He still needs to gain some weight, stop being pushed around so easily, and react better to speed. That said Withey has become a major force in KU basketball. If he keeps improving other teams better watch out next year or later this season. B.U. Coach Drew said he plays like an all-American against Baylor. He may just be getting ready to play like an all-American period. What a trio, Taylor, Robinson, and Withey. With their ability you just about need two basketballs at play in the game.

At any rate congratulations that you and others recognized what he might become. P.S., I like your avatar, you or your sister?

manginodrh00lz 9 years, 9 months ago

Take it easy bumpkin....That's like saying 1 year from now I'll find a quarter on the street.

RockCaCO3 9 years, 9 months ago

No, I think for manginwhiner that's actually a good analogy. Finding a quarter will probably be a huge achievement in his life.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

Humanoid is like a human.

manginoid is like manginodrh00lz.

manginodrh00lz is like high jacking Mark Mangino's honorable name and dragging it through manginoid's seeming lack of character and...seeming rabid anti-semitism.

Is that how I am supposed to do the smear-opp, mangionoid?

Manginoid, stop the apparently sexist, anti-semitism would you?

Is that better?

Am I getting the smear-ops down your way, Manginoid?

I told you I am going to keep practicing trying to learn how to do what you appear to do, so that my fellow board rats learn how to recognize smear-ops. Here goes...

"Stop the sexist, anti-semitism and trans-phylum beastiality, manginoid."

Nope, I haven't quite gotten your technique down,yet. Oh, well, I will keep trying.

P.S.: This is a public service announcement meant to help board rats learn to recognize smear-opping. I mean to imply nothing about the alias called "manginodrh00lz." I would assume he is none of the above;that he just likes to smear-op, i.e., link a smear word to an alias in a short post.

KULA 9 years, 9 months ago

Join the club PV. I've been blowing Withey's horn since his freshman year.

Alohahawk 9 years, 9 months ago

Congrats to TW. Great game. Still think Jeff has a good chance of a triple double before he graduates.

That said, I think this game exemplified perfectly why TRob should be this season's national POY. Just think of some of the other major contenders (Sullinger, Davis and McDermott) for POY. Each of the others have four or more teammates who create mismatch problems for their opponents. Watching some of the Duke vs N. Carolina game afterwards, N. Carolina's Zeller and Duke's centers were rarely double teamed. Against Baylor, TRob was their major focus, leaving Withey almost uncontested during TRob's time on the court. When a player is hacked and fouled, double and triple teamed as much as TRob has been all season, one has to wonder what some of his stats might be if some of the pressure were applied to his teammates instead?

I hope that Withey, as well as his fellow Jayhawks, continues to help take some of that pressure off of Thomas.

And, Nice game Jayhawks!! RCJHGKU, all the way to the Big 12 Championship.

nighthawking 9 years, 9 months ago

Great game Hawks. I am so ready to see this team in the tournament in March. Would love to be a 1 seed but am not sure if we will get there.

Alex Berger 9 years, 9 months ago

He will need to rebound better as a center if he is going to be an All-American. But at least we know he can take charge!

Hank Cross 9 years, 9 months ago

A great win. I don't know when I've seen KU so poised on the road down to a good team. This team has a lot of heart. Baylor, not so much. After Baylor's earlier loss I said that neither they nor MU would end up in the top 10. Feeling good about the Baylor prediction and think MU will cough up another loss or two.

JManTheChamp 9 years, 9 months ago

Jeff Withey taking advantage of 27 NBA scouts and 17 NBA teams that were there at the game watching T Rob and few Baylor players.

Is Jeff Withey good enough to make NBA roster after his senior year?

Kye Clark 9 years, 9 months ago

He'll easily be good enough after his senior year. If he finishes this season strong, there's no reason why scouts shouldn't be taking a look at him now, while they could get him for a lower draft pick.

Not that I want that to happen. I'd prefer to have him here next year. But an athletic 7 footer...yeah he's probably already on some guys' watch lists.

KGphoto 9 years, 9 months ago

"...athletic footer" ... who shoots 86% charity.

Robert Murphy 9 years, 9 months ago

He'll be a top five pick. Jeff is coming into his own and really admire his hard work and improvement. If we could just get him to dribble a little less.

Steven Mathew 9 years, 9 months ago

That's stretching it a little too far...

Sam Constance 9 years, 9 months ago

If Eddy "walking bloated corpse" Curry can stick in the NBA for a decade because he's seven feet tall, I think Jeff Withey will get a decent shot.

He's long and pretty quick on his feet, has nice hands and great defensive timing. and as KGphoto notes, 86% from the line is bonus.

Plus, NBA scouts are pushovers for 7-footers. (see: Eddy Curry)

KULA 9 years, 9 months ago

He could very well have a better NBA career than Cole. I think he has a better skill set.

jayhawker_97 9 years, 9 months ago

astounding effort from big fella. if he can catch like he did tonight, oh boy.. we should fear no more. hopefully his teammates can throw passes he can catch, as well. what we want to see more is lob passes after pick-n-roll. that's next. i love this team! kudos to great coaching staff, too. they can develop players to their fullest in a blink of an eye. that says a lot about KU basketball. rock chalk!!

Kye Clark 9 years, 9 months ago

Lost in all the Withey love-fest, I gotta give props to Tyshawn. I've been one of his bigger doubters (NOT haters, btw), and while there are still things in his game that concern me, he is on an unbelievable scoring streak. Nine games in a row with 15 points or more, and in all but two of those he has shot over 50% (was one made shot away from 50% in the other two), so it's not as if he needs a high volume number of shots to get those points. Loved how Fran Frischilla brought up the Cousy snub. Hope he keeps that chip on his shoulder the rest of the year.

Ron Franklin 9 years, 9 months ago

We're you a doubter, or were you just disappointed because he wasn't playing to the potential you thought he had? That was always my issue with him--could never understand how he seemed to get worse after his Freshmen year. Something has changed in Ty's mind the last 6 weeks. I think it's been great.

Redlandsjhawk 9 years, 9 months ago

I think it's called "senior urgency" and I agree it's been great.

Kye Clark 9 years, 9 months ago

More so I was a doubter. I doubted he would ever be this good. That he was anything more than an above-average talent. Athletically gifted? Yes. Capable of leading a blue-blood program like KU? Didn't think it was possible.

I still have some doubts. I doubt he'll every be a true facilitating point guard. He doesn't directly make his teammates better by setting them up with passes in a position to score that often. Indirectly his scoring makes everyone better. And I after the Misery game I don't know that he'll ever be "clutch". However, he is bringing so much more than I thought possible to the team right now.

KULA 9 years, 9 months ago

Come on in, the water's fine, lol.

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 9 months ago

Good question BlownJay..maybe a little of both.

Jason Roberts 9 years, 9 months ago

It is my hope that the Lakers take a serious look at Tyshawn Taylor. A tall, quick PG is exactly what they need.

LAJayhawk - do you agree?

KULA 9 years, 9 months ago

That might be just the thing to make me a Laker fan, lol.

jchief40 9 years, 9 months ago

EJ is doing a good job on the defensive side of the ball. He's part of the reason our defense is top 10 (top 5?). But he just stinks from behind the arc this year.

Alohahawk 9 years, 9 months ago

Love EJ's defense and effort. But I about kick the TV each time he shoots a 3. As has been discussed too many times already on this site: Why won't he drive in and shoot a few G d* 2 pointers?

If he is KU's lead PG next year he'd better learn to drive, or else leave the shooting to everyone else. Because, along with Withey, KU will have a number of decent scorers at SG, SF and PF, as well as other capable 3 point shooters, available next season.

Clarence Haynes 9 years, 9 months ago

Agree. It was evident that he can get inside but he just needs to penetrate and hit some deuces which I guarantee you make it easier to get his threes.

dtdjayhawk 9 years, 9 months ago

It seemed like there were a few opportunities for EJ to drive the ball clear to the basket last night that he just passed up on. He really needs to take advantage of his ability to get to the basket. If we could see Travis step his game back up to where it was and then if Elijah can start producing the offense we know he has the talent for then by March we would be a complete package because our defense is already for the most part fantastic.

aerohawk 9 years, 9 months ago

9-11 from the charity line. That is very nice. We need to be able to count on free throws going in and it seems like a lot of times the big guys can't hit them. Withey can.

Alohahawk 9 years, 9 months ago

That brings up a question I've had in the back of my mind regarding freethrows by KU centers. From day one in the past, and over just one season, has any KU center ever made a higher % of freethrows than Withey has this season?

Steve Gantz 9 years, 9 months ago

Hang on, let me look up Wilt's stats :)

texashawk10 9 years, 9 months ago

Wilt was a terrible free throw shooter. He was somewhere around the 50% range for his career.

9 years, 9 months ago

Can’t find one as good as Withey in the recent era, however Aldrich was decent with a career FT% of 72.9% while at KU:

Chenowith was also decent with a career FT% of 72.3% at KU:

JayHawkFanToo 9 years, 9 months ago

The Big Dub (Wayne Simien) was very good, although he was more of a tweener than a true center.

Robert Murphy 9 years, 9 months ago

Jeff's free throw shooting is truly amazing and I take my hat off to him.

texashawk10 9 years, 9 months ago

Withey has great form and a soft touch on his free throws, but he's had the benefit of a lot good bounces this year as well. I think in reality, Withey is probably somewhere in the mid 70's range, but good bounces have really helped him out this year.

KULA 9 years, 9 months ago

Good bounces are the result of good shooting. Over the course of the year, you are what your percentage says you are.

hotrodm 9 years, 9 months ago

WOW! What a game from Withey. I expect the same from Jeff in the rematch with MIZZOO. Jeff will get his payback on the 25th. Go Jayhawks, stay focused and run the table in your remaining Big 12 games. Big 12 Champs !

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

Good news: Jeff went macro against some good competition that plays a little softer style and is a little less muscle bound, and has an experience level nearer his than he saw in Fizzouri.

Bad news: The picture above confirms what pics at MU suggested. He has lost muscle mass and definition from whatever sickness he had.

Good news: Elijah has become a defensive specialist on the order of Russell Robinson.

Bad News: The Prophet's trey gun is still jammed. Note: board rats need to stop asking for him to get to the rim. It might be good for his personal game, and Self may have him do it, against a lesser team, to juice him up. But with Withey and TRob inside and TT out side to drive, anyone else driving just collapses the D.

Good news: Travis got a much needed back down in minutes, after the nearly super human stretch of Top Gun defense he has had to play with a bum Michelin.

Bad News: He can't order new rubber till the off season.

Good News: Conner quietly came out of his slump against the kind of team we needed him to--a Syracuse lite zone, and got 3 glass vacs.

Bad News: We still need to see him show he can muscle more in a speed game to offset his lesser speed (Conner has to start using his football roots and cheap shotting some speed merchants and muscle ballers, so they know if they are scoring against him it is going to lead to pain--its not his nature, but this is The Canal and we have to have him more effective against the long and athletics. Cheap shotting and shoving on defense are the coins of the realm for CT on defense from here on out. Lace curtain after season. Pig poop the rest of the way. Conner has to become not just a gunner, but the guy opponents dread, because he is willing to take punch to rough them up out of their games.

Good news: Everything about TT and TRob right now.

Bad news: Good as TT and TRob have become, they still have to prove they can stay poised, when things go wrong at the end.

End Note: The win in Waco goes down as one of the very big ones. Self is grooming a team of 35 Minute men. We are looking at a team being played into XTReme Condition, like Shaka Smarts VCU team last season. If we can avoid injuries, look out!

AsadZ 9 years, 9 months ago

bate, I was thinking about VCU as well, how that team played fast up tempo basketball with limited bench, surprised a lot of people and went to Final Four.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

I really admired what Shaka Smart did with that VCU team, even though I wanted to shoot my self through the head with a bazooka after the KU loss to VCU.

Chris Shaw 9 years, 9 months ago

The only thing about EJ is that he has been killing the 15 footer this year. When he puts the ball on the floor, goes left, and pulls up for that mid-range jumper, he's been virtually automatic with that shot. He was lights out with that shot against Mizzou.

Maybe he doesn't need to get to the rack, but he still needs to put the ball on the floor and be aggressive towards the middle of the paint, either looking to set somebody up or to simply pull up for that mid-range jumper!

The key for EJ is trying to incorporate into his game and also the offensive flow that mid-range jumper of his.

brooksmd 9 years, 9 months ago

Speaking of poise. Withey showed a lot of poise by not going after Miller after that blatant elbow. That whole series was a devastating blow to Baylor. Glad the refs took a look at it as it was clear as day it was flagrant as you could see Miller cock his elbow.

MimiHawk 9 years, 9 months ago

When Withey was on the Bill Self show a week or so, ago, he said he has had trouble keeping weight on once the season started.

nuleafjhawk 9 years, 9 months ago


I have no idea what to think any more......

It's not often that we have a team that can literally beat anybody in the country, or lose to anybody in the country. In the same game.

I read PVJayhawk's prediction about Jeff Withey earlier, and I'm right there with ya. I've said all season that Withey's play makes or breaks this team and I think the last two games have shown that.

As far as Tyshawn goes - I've never seen a KU player that, in a 10 second span I can want to punch him in the face (I don't condone violence, but I sure feel that way from the couch sometimes) and then after some crazy-azz play he makes that defies the laws of gravity, I want to kiss him on the lips. (well..... you know)

Great, great win. Don't let up. Maybe Coach should play the Missouri tape before every game the rest of the year.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

"It's not often that we have a team that can literally beat anybody in the country, or lose to anybody in the country. In the same game."


actorman 9 years, 9 months ago


BTW, my favorite moment in the game was when TT made one of his insanely athletic plays and an ear-to-ear grin. How great was that to see?

NH_JHawk 9 years, 9 months ago

That was a statement game. For the doubters who still weren't convinced, we just put them and the rest of our league (the nation too) on notice that the Big 12 conference title still runs through Lawrence, KS. Yes, "we've been here before." Rock Chalk!

Jesse Johnson 9 years, 9 months ago

“It’s probably about as good offensively as we’ve had a big man play here (in Self’s nine seasons at KU)."

Is it just me or does Bill Self like to use supelatives like this a lot (i.e. Sherron is toughest guard he ever coached, Mc Morris is most versatile forward he ever coached, etc.).

Usually I don't necessarily disagree with him, but what about TRob's 30/20 game vs. North Dakota? Or even some of his other great games he's been having all season? Maybe TRob is not classified as a "big man"? But even so, what about Sasha Kaun's game against Davidson in the 2008 elite eight?

yates33333 9 years, 9 months ago

Not to argue, but how tall do you really think TRob is? 6'5" or 6'6"?

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

I've wondered this myself, though I would not go so low.

He came in measured at 6-7 and I reckon he is still 6-7, but his height is really hard to judge, because of how stunningly broad and powerful his shoulders are. He could have grown to 6-9 and with those broad shoulders still look a bit undersized. His shoulders create a hugely emphasized transept in his physique. I do quite a bit of art work and have studied the way sculptors and painters create the visual effects they get with mathematical ratios of proportion. I am not good enough to be able to answer confidently what his height is...only to wonder, as you do.

I would add, however, that in this day and age of high contact basketball, I would pick TRob to be the perfect physical model for a logo, or icon, for today's game. His physical presence is just amazing. It is so terrific that he has been able to translate this great upper body strength of his into great and varied basketball skills, too!

Eliott Reeder 9 years, 9 months ago

He was measured 6-10 in shoes at the NBA camps last summer...

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

Thx for the assist. I reckon we can trust them.

If I were an athlete being measured here is what I would do. I would wear some very regulation looking shoes the pros are familiar with. Next I would two pairs of socks and between the socks I would wear plastic heel cups with sponge in the bed of the heel cup. Next I would take my very regulation looking shoes and I would put in some foot bed pads under the regulation footbed of my shoe. Next I would put in another foot bed on top of my shoes regulation foot bed. Then I would make a very big show just prior to bring measured of taking my shoes off, and removing the obvious supplemental footbed on top in each shoe, then quickly put my shoes back on taking care not to reveal either the heel cups between my socks, or the false footbed under neath the regulation footbed.

I reckon this combination would add another inch to my height. If I am 6-9, it makes me 6-10 and so not a tweener. If I am 6-10, it makes me 6-11, which makes me a tall 4. If I am 6-11, it makes me a footer, which makes me a franchise type player. Adding an inch to your stature in these measurements almost certainly increases your market value and raises your draft order so you net 20% more pay than you otherwise would.

This is business, after all. :-)

Farmers have been loading up beef and grains with water weight to increase their market values for as long as there have been scales. :-)

After KU, these players are not out there just for fun.

Chris Shaw 9 years, 9 months ago

Danny Manning is a legit 6'10 and I believe that is with shoes off. Anytime I have noticed T-Rob standing next to D-Manning on the sidelines, T-Rob is always about an inch shorter. With that said, I would guess that T-Rob is a legit 6'9 or 6'10" with shoes on. Take that for what it's worth.

flyingfinn 9 years, 9 months ago

Ever notice TRob standing next to Withey...if TRob is 6'10" then Withey is 7'2"

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

This is exactly what has made me wonder about TRob's height. Thx for pointing it out.

JayDocMD 9 years, 9 months ago

See the picture of TRob next to Baylor's Brittney Griner? She looks maybe an inch shorter and she's listed at 6'8" on several different sites.

yates33333 9 years, 9 months ago

Think this is a picture of the male and female players of the year???

JayHawkFanToo 9 years, 9 months ago

Whenever pictures show him next to Withey, he looks about 4-5 inches shorter...

Helen Gross 9 years, 9 months ago

TRob and Brittney need to have children, Can u imagine?

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

First, yes Self uses superlatives and he uses them, because he wants these guys to climb out of the shadows of KU's formidable legacy, and to recognize how good they are, when they actually play well, rather than just get some numbers, because they've got a lot of talent and are playing with MUA. I love that Self makes statements like these. It shows he is living in the moment and not stuck in the past with previous greats. It lets these guys know that they can be as good as the greats of the past and what the heck is a tradition worth having unless you use it to help the present get better?

Second, TRob's 30/20 vs. NDak was just a confidence builder against a cupcake that Self gave TRob. Board rats that thought it mean something more don't get the game. Every game Rob barely squeezes out a double double against top competition is a way better game played than the one he played against NDak. These guys are so talented at this level that any time the have MUA, and are healthy, they are just going mash an inferior opponent, whenever the coach decides to play through them. When you see TRob struggling for all he is worth against another great player, and some how finding a way to get even a slight edge over him, that is when you see TRob's really good games--his really grown man games. And when you see him dominate another very good player and have a career game, that is the game to measure his enduring stature from. TRob has a date with destiny. True greatness in players can only be realized when they are at their peak and them must face an equal, or even slightly better, player at his peak. TRob's date is coming in the Madness. It is coming against either, or both, Ohio State's Jared Sullinger and UK's Anthony Davis. TRob's consistency this season already ranks him among Self's best big men. But it will be the match-ups with Sullinger and Davis--two superb players--they with certain strengths he lacks, and he with certain strengths they lack--that will give him a chance to become the very best he can be. These are the great match-ups that to be great one has to love. These are the one's where "competitive greatness" must be cloaked in patience and faith and everything must be left on the floor. All of a players resources, all of his experience, all of his fury to compete, and intense training, and smoothly modulated focus, and confidence must converge to prevail. Only the greats can do it. Only the greatest of the great can do it consistently. Few ever get the privilege of competing at the highest level of anything against the best opponent out there. TRob, if the team can keep healthy and continuing to get better, is on a trajectory to get this rare and great opportunity.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

Third, as wonderful as what Jeff Withey did last night against some good competition in Baylor, it, too, is just a confidence builder for Jeff, just a step he needed to take. Baylor plays in a way that is best for him. Baylor enables all of Jeff's strengths and none of his weaknesses. Jeff just had a very good game, when the deck was stacked a bit in his favor. Jeff's next test is to put fight through an opponent that enables all of Jeff's weaknesses, an opponent that forces Jeff to fight for all he is worth just to put up an efficient 15/10 game. That is the next important milestone for him--prevailing efficiently in an adverse situation for him. When he gets 15 points on 55-60% efficiency and 10 rebounds against a bunch of muscle balling thugs, then you know Jeff has taken that next big step, and he will.

Fourth, and back to Coach Self's optimistic comments about players, Self is a coach/teacher and a son of of a coach/teacher dad and a teacher mother, if I recall correctly. He believes in teaching and learning in order to make things get better. Some of these comments are also intended to teach the fans something. Most board rats, and me from time to time, can lose sight of the game for the scoring. We can under appreciated the often awesome accomplishments and getting better that is going on even when the scoring is not there. And we can often see the game too one dimensionally to appreciate some of the truly great fetes of these players. Take Marcus Morris. We live in a world of specialization, where the most highly valued individuals are those that become highly efficient at specialized activity. Coach Self operates in this same world, and after all the years he has coached, he has seen tons of highly efficient specialists come and go. He has seen some fanatically physically gifted players come and go. But I bet Coach Self would say that he has only had one guy in all of his years that really stretched the envelope of versatility--Marcus Morris. Before Marcus, probably the most versatile players Self had ever coached were Brandon Rush and maybe one of the guys on Illinois, whose name I forget now. Wayne Simien might have been such a player, but Self's material forced Self to use Wayne exclusively as a post man. And coaches judge players based on what they actually do, not by what they might do.

Steve Gantz 9 years, 9 months ago

How do you know how Withey did last night? I heard you were out eating steak during the game? :)

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

watched in replay plus immediately called brother and best friend. :-)

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

By Marcus' last season, he was one of the most versatile college basketball players I have ever seen. He was an accomplished scorer. A good rebounder. A terrific defender who could guard men bigger than him in the paint, and guard shooting forwards on the perimeter. He played great help defense. He became a strong finisher inside, and had a decent trey gun. He could put the ball the deck and be amazingly quick and strong to the hole. He could bring the ball up court and dribble well with either hand. He was a fine passer and rarely turned the ball over. And he carried the team on his back. Marcus was one of the best college basketball players I have seen, when one counts all the ways a basketball player can be assessed. Coach Self knew this and he wanted fans to appreciate what a special player Marcus was, because Self had schemed the team in a way that Marcus was often not the flashiest looking great player. But coaches love players who can master aspects of the game and Coach Self was saying to fans, "Hey, lookie here; this kid is doing something I have never seen in all my years. He does almost everything a basketball player can do and does it all way above average! Something truly rare is going on here. Notice it!" I think he was doing the same with Sherron. There really have been lots of great point guards that could do most of what Sherron did, and a few that could do it in the clutch as well as Sherron could. But there has never been a player before with all of these skills that was also in this bowling ball package and who was also so ferocious and able to take and dish physical contact from that position. This was truly rare in basketball. And so Self called fans attentions to it and to Sherron's having "it."

Mike Mainzer 9 years, 9 months ago

condense man, condense - I went through two cups of coffee reading your thesis here

Vittorio1224 9 years, 9 months ago

Yes, brevity is the soul of wit my friend :) Great dissertation and thoughts....however.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

Drink Peet's French Roast and you'll ask me to go longer. :-)

9 years, 9 months ago

LOL! Man, I don’t know why jross1972 won’t hug it out with you - - this board would never be the same if you left :^)

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

He will. He just has to get the inflamed hemorrhoids snipped first. :-)

Tony Bandle 9 years, 9 months ago

1] Have any of you seen such a disparity between a wealth of talent and a lack of coaching simultaneously on Baylor, just this side of UK??!!

2] Can you image what HCBS and staff could have done with that roster!!??

3] He might have had the second undefeated team since Bobby's Indy team in '76.

4] Thank God, Scott Drew is such a tool!!!

5] Baylor hardly loses to anyone except KU, who just dominates them!!!!

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 9 months ago

Spot on! I posted something similar somewhere that Drew had the most individual talent... But HCBS builds teams.

Chris Shaw 9 years, 9 months ago

Maybe the team and Withey will now shift their focus over to EJ and get this "Funk" or whatever he's got going on out of his system.

Chris Shaw 9 years, 9 months ago

Question: Who has more potential......T-Rob or P Jones III?

Who do you take higher in the draft......T-Rob or P Jones III?


yates33333 9 years, 9 months ago

Jones doesn't play anywhere nearly as hard as Robinson. Surely the pro scouts report this. I know at this level of BB I would take TRob any day.

RockCaCO3 9 years, 9 months ago

I tried explaining to my kids last night what a "stud" is. I finally just pointed to number 0 and said, "he's a stud."

justinryman 9 years, 9 months ago

I have done the same.

He has all the intangibles that make a boy a man and that man a stud!

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

Jones has more potential on offense.

Thomas on defense and rebounding and floor game.

But here is the thing: Thomas has already proved he is a "getting better" guy and Jones seems not to be that personality type.

Jone's problem this season is that he is not much better than he was last season.

To be blunt, Jones is the same player he was the last time KU played Baylor and Thomas is significantly improved just in that short time.

The thing everyone is overlooking about Thomas degree of improvement, especially recently, is that it has continued, though slowed a bit, in the weeks surrounding the anniversary of his mother's death. Everyone is throwing the word "stud" around to describe him, because he plays fiercely, forcefully, skillfully and efficiently. This is all true. But unbreakable concentration is the perhaps the most "studly" activity of all and but for a couple minutes at the end of the MU game, and one off game this season, Thomas has held concentration unstintingly. And to hold one's concentration even mostly during the anniversary of one's parent's death is just stunning. I have no idea how he does it.

But the man is driven.

And it is not just because of the tragedies that befell him.

He improved massively from freshman year to last year before the problems hit.

He has the get better gene.

If Thomas and Jones were to stay in school next season, I think Thomas would sharply separate from Jones by the end of next season in every regard.

Jones may lack the getting better gene, or lack the coaches that build with it., or both.

But I'm putting my money on the Jayhawk in which player eventually develops the most in the pros.

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 9 months ago

Potential vs Proven. I take TRob..he has out performed P Jones III (as did Marcus & Markief every time they've met).

Chris Shaw 9 years, 9 months ago

Do you all hear that? I'm ringing that cattle bell! Where are those Missouri trolls when you need them the most?

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

Have you forgotten, Chris? Cattle bells just make them inbreed. :-)

Chris Shaw 9 years, 9 months ago

Who wins Baylor/Mizzou on Saturday? Revenge game for Baylor after losing to Mizzou already by a point (88-89). After that performance though, I have to give the edge to Mizzou.

Ron Franklin 9 years, 9 months ago

Baylor is soft. I'm afraid they are not gonna help us out in Columbia.

Chris Shaw 9 years, 9 months ago

That's okay because we beat Mizzou when they come to AFH!

JayDocMD 9 years, 9 months ago

I agree that we win vs Mizzou at home, but I'm afraid we have a least one more loss coming (@ KSU? vs OSU?) - a 1 game buffer sure would be nice...

Kye Clark 9 years, 9 months ago

Agree Baylor is soft. And since it's in Misery gotta give the Tiggers the edge. Baylor played them tough in Waco, a lot tougher than they just played us, so maybe they make a game out of it. I'll be rooting for Baylor that's for sure.

texashawk10 9 years, 9 months ago

As much as I want to see Baylor steal that one and give KU the outright lead after Saturday, Missouri is going to roll Baylor. What's the biggest weakness of a zone defense? 3 point shooting and Missouri is going to be raining 3's on Baylor's zone.

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 9 months ago

Hate picking MU..Baylor has more talent but Mizzou is the better team.

Jim Jackson 9 years, 9 months ago

An extra year in the weight room which will help him gain about 15 lbs will be benefical in addition to an extra year of coaching from Danny Manning, That should propel him to the first round fro next year. National championship wouldn't hurt either.

Go Jayhawkers!

Yolanda Gay 9 years, 9 months ago

I wish Jeff could put on a little more weight. But as interviewed on the Bill Self Show, Jeff said he can't keep weight on - no matter how much he eats (something Bob Davis said that's something some of us wish we could do (LOL)).

Michael Bratisax 9 years, 9 months ago

lol..Wait till Withey hits his late 30's, it wont be a problem then.

REHawk 9 years, 9 months ago

Tiger trolls are postponing sleep, laboring in the wee hours to design t-shirts for their Saturday game vs. the Bears.

Kye Clark 9 years, 9 months ago

That's the second time I've clicked on that link (once yesterday from either you or somebody else), and it doesn't really tell me anything. The comments section of an espn article, all in itty-bitty type, and I see one comment about the shirts.

JayHok 9 years, 9 months ago

You're right. ESPN must have removed the filthy comments.

A couple MU fans were denying the shirts were made calling KU fans every name in the book. Some of the names were pretty disturbing (started with the letter V) and were altered enough to get through the ESPN filter. I guess that explains why they're not there anymore.

champs528808 9 years, 9 months ago

Simply put, EJ is not a stand-still jump shooter. His flow is so much better when he comes into his shot off the dribble.

Justin Lindsley 9 years, 9 months ago

EJ and releford need to start scoring a little more. EJ needs to quit chucking 3's and drive to the hole. He reminds me of Giddens right now. Giddens was a tremendous athelete just like EJ. He would never put the ball on the floor either. Come on EJ!! we need you show us what you've got!

REHawk 9 years, 9 months ago

HA! For the Jayhawks, this week's Battle at The Paige is a win/win situation. Bears lose, and Drew's legions are belly up in jb's Canal, floundering with Hoiberg's Cyclones for a distant 3rd in the league. Tigers lose, bye-bye Slavers.... Yeee-Haw!

REHawk 9 years, 9 months ago

Okie State has pulled some upsets on their home court. Gotta spit shine and buff the boots for their Saturday invasion. Who's gonna pop loose and rise to the next occasion for Hawk to Rawk?

Kye Clark 9 years, 9 months ago

Well at this point we pretty much know what we're going to get from TRob & Tyshawn, so they've already popped. EJ is due, but I'm gonna say Releford just because he will shut down Le'Bryan Nash. Do that, and we handle the Cowboys with ease.

BTW, mentioned this a week ago or so but don't know if you saw it - you really need to get an avatar! I always enjoy your posts but sometimes I don't have as much time and just scroll thru looking for my favorites (Shaw, Ralster, HEM, Oak, Blownjay, sometimes Jaybate, but sometimes like I said not enough time. LOL). Having an avatar would make you more recognizable. Not that you care so much about me reading your posts or making it easy for me, but just sayin'

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago


I believe it is REHawk's avatar. :-)

Seriously, I am going to make him one and post it onto jaybate's gallery of basketball paintography shortly.

You will both enjoy it, I am sure. :-)

Brandon Pope 9 years, 9 months ago

The most encouraging thing I saw during that game? T-Rob seemed to figure out how to pass to Withey out of the double/triple team. Up to this point he has gotten the quick out pass to the near side guard, and VERY occasionally the cross court pass to the far side shooter.

If he has figured out the how to drop it off to Withey on the opposite block teams had better watch out. We will get layup after layup after layup. Then, the double team will be a little weaker and will disperse quicker and T-Rob can take over himself. I have been waiting all year to watch those two pass the ball to one another.

REHawk 9 years, 9 months ago

Gary Bedore, you or your editor have produced a fine title for this article.

RockCaCO3 9 years, 9 months ago

Speaking of fine titles, I liked ESPN's "Sweep you Later."

REHawk 9 years, 9 months ago

The future in freeze frame: T-Rob leaps, lobs, Withey slams! Rawk!

MorganR 9 years, 9 months ago

This was an amazing game. My son said he would be surprised if there was ever a 32-4 scoring difference between 2 top 10 teams. Messrs. Withey, Robinson, Taylor, Tehan, Releford and the other Jayhawks all played so well on defense and offense. Congratulatons to the players and coaches.

Chris Shaw 9 years, 9 months ago

LeBryan Nash (Okie State): Maybe you should have thought about all that before you went and played for Okie State. It really hasn't gotten any better for his team since he made these quotes.

“Yessir,” he said Saturday after scoring a team-best 20 points in the 74-68 loss to Pitt. “That’s why I went to this school because I love these players, I love the coaching staff and I really want to win at this school.

“I really don’t want to be a guy that’s not known on the campus by winning. I want to be a winner. I want to win Big 12 championships. I want to win a national championship. I’m going to fight every day, fight hard every time I step on that court for this team because they do the same thing for us.

“And you’re going to see a guy that works hard every day from now on. I really think that we can win games. I really think we can do stuff this year. We got all the guys we need. We got shooters, we got scorers, we got defensive players. We just gotta come together and accept our leader and our team captain Keiton Page, and listen to him.”

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

LeBryan Nash is a player from the neck down.

Ron Franklin 9 years, 9 months ago

My thoughts...

Withey's free throw improvement is the best I've ever seen.

Withey's hands are getting noticeably softer/better.

I hope EJ breaks out of this mental slump.

Conner got his against a similar talent-Brady Heslip. Good for him, but not too impressed especially because he can't get a shot off unless he has 10 feet of space.

Travis isn't Travis, but we know why.

I see Bill is having EJ bring the ball up. That is great, but Tyshawn is still running on fumes in the last 2-3 minutes. It cost the Missouri game. It allowed a mini run in the last 3 minutes last night. This is gonna be deadly in the tournament.

Gotta figure out how to get Ty some rest.

Kye Clark 9 years, 9 months ago

Agree with pretty much everything here.

Not sure what EJ's problem is. For now as long as he doesn't let it affect his defense we can live with it, but if Travis isn't going to be a force on the offensive end this year anymore (I assume your "but we know why" comment is in reference to his alleged bum wheel), we have to have another perimeter threat to take this team to the next level, so it has to be EJ.

Agree that Tyshawn is apparently gassed at the end of games. Could Self possibly let him take the Tyrel Reed at the end of last year approach in practice, letting him take it easy one or two days/week? Or would that only hurt his overall conditioning and stamina? The only other real option is to play Naadir some, but he seems unwilling to do that.

KULA 9 years, 9 months ago

Too many minutes over the course of the season, just like Sherron, playing 35 min in 20 pt blowouts. It adds up and takes a toll, usually in March. Remember how Sherron's % dropped in March. Bill should've (& maybe it's not to late) gotten Naadir in for 4/8 min. in some of these blowouts. Just like he should've with EJ. Anybody doubt EJ would be better today with that extra experience the last couple years?

Hopefully we won't see Tyshawn's percentage drop, but we've already seen him miss some late free throws. Bill likes to ride a horse to death, doesn't he?

Tony Bandle 9 years, 9 months ago

Did Cody Zeller have the all-time worst minute in this season's NCAA reg. season play or what!!??

  • missed two free throws, either one probably ices game
  • somehow accidently tips in an opponents three point shot for two points that was not going to even be close to the rim
  • at 7'-0", fails to face guard a much shorter hot three point shooter and lets the buzzer beater trifecta winner fly over his hands.
  • the good news was that North Carolina lost; the bad news is that it was Duke that beat them!!!

Chris Shaw 9 years, 9 months ago

Duke winning looks better for KU though. I hate UNC!

Chris Shaw 9 years, 9 months ago

How clutch was that shot by Austin Rivers though! I was jumping up and down for sure!

Kye Clark 9 years, 9 months ago

Yeah they were all over him on sportscenter for playing lazy defense with his arms at his sides. Loved it.

And I'm with Shaw...since we played Duke them winning is better for us.

Mike Kendall 9 years, 9 months ago

Where's all the Missouri trolls? Or are they hiding under a rock, like in that Geico commercial?

JayHok 9 years, 9 months ago

They're here attempting to swing the popular opinion on MU t-shirts. On the back of the shirt instead of a player's name, it should be Don Daily's. The shirt itself should not be tiger stripes but Daily's ref stripes.

Ben Kane 9 years, 9 months ago

haven't been on here much lately, but having been a hater of late, i just wanted to give some props to returnof3han who in both of the last two games has hit some clutch 3's.

he's also made some big plays that don't involve hitting a 3.

that being said, all i can say about Withey is... WOW!

if someone had told me he'd score that many points i'd have laughed at them so hard i'd have split my gut.

Tony Bandle 9 years, 9 months ago

MizzouBest.......we're wwaaiittiinngg.........

Chris Shaw 9 years, 9 months ago

Here's some of my favorite quotes yesterday from the Missouri Trolls!

1) MizzouBest(anonymous) says…

What's that sound??????? Wait for it!!!! Wait for it!!!!!!!


The Kansas Basketball program crashing!!!!!!!

kansas will never be good again. All the elite players are going to east coast teams.

It's over!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2)missouricat(anonymous) says…

Looks like all the talking heads are saying that Baylor will win tonight easy as KU will fold and choke again like they did the other night. This could be the final touch to KU's run on the big 12 title and it looks like the final to the recruiting that Self has suffered the last 4 years. As the recruiting analyst have said prior to the start of this season that KU has fallen off the map on recruiting the top players and that the other teams such as Missouri and Baylor have taken over the spot. Baylor and Missouri are getting the top notch players and that no one is interested in KU as once was. What is wrong with Self. Dickey V. and Lunarni said the other day that KU is not the team it once was and is not very good. It is sad that KU has let this program slip this bad with Self as a coach.

3)missouricat(anonymous) says…

I will be watching if I get home in time from my meeting with my employees. Ku will not like this game at all, sorry to have to say that.

Thanks a lot for the bulletin board material!


Scott Drew

nuleafjhawk 9 years, 9 months ago

3)missouricat(anonymous) says…

"I will be watching if I get home in time from my meeting with my employees. Ku will not like this game at all, sorry to have to say that."

This is a blatant lie. Missouri people do not have employees. Unless farm animals count as employees.

VaJay 9 years, 9 months ago

I really liked how Self put Withey on the line for the technical foul shots. He only made one of two, so I guess it'll still be Tyshawn going to the line for those. But talk about a great stroke at the line - Withey is the best big man foul shooter I've seen in a long time.

Sam Constance 9 years, 9 months ago

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Withey shot those because it wasn't a technical, but a Flagrant 1, and the player who is on the receiving end of the foul has to shoot them, by rule.

But speaking of that play... what in the world was that little sh*t on Baylor thinking?

Vittorio1224 9 years, 9 months ago

You could really tell our Jayhawks were HUNGRY last night. Last year was the same thing down in Waco. KU was dissed by the national media and everyone was saying we were undeserving of our high national ranking and we ended up punking Baylor by 20 points or something. Same thing this year. After absorbing some "body blows" early in the game and trailing 19-9, we REALLY turned it on. Withey was HUGE. If he plays like that on a consistent basis, I like our chances to 8-peat and also win the Big 12 tourney. Not sure what the heck is going on with Releford and Elijah, though. Maybe Ty, T-Rob and Withey need to pound them in the chest or something?

All in all, a GREAT win over a legit Baylor team. They just don't match up well with our "Twin Towers" in the middle...In two games now, we've beaten them by a collective 32 points. Now we need to take care of business against OSU (a dangerous team IMO) and win out! ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK!

Jim Pendleton 9 years, 9 months ago

“It’s probably about as good offensively as we’ve had a big man play here (in Self’s nine seasons at KU). Cole (Aldrich) had some good games. I don’t know if he had any better than that".

Apparently Coach Bill has forgotten about Cole's triple-double against Dayton, in the NCAA Tournament, in his hometown!

All joking aside, what a great win and effort, particularly after the way the game started out. I thought we were going to get run off the floor for awhile there. We need to keep this going, as coaches will say one game at a time. It's easy to want to look ahead, but we must take care of the games in front of us, as they come. Rock Chalk!!

Chris Shaw 9 years, 9 months ago

The one thing I really enjoyed in this game and I'm sure a lot of you recognized this as well.....................when T-Rob was frustrated in the first half and picked up his second foul..............he was still involved in the game cheering for his teammates when Withey was dominating in the paint.

What was awesome from my opinon is that T-Rob adopted the role of being the "Target" and relished the fact that he could feed his boy "Withey" with a career game.

I mean, there was one play where Withey gave a touch pass to T-Rob, T-Rob held the ball for a half second longer and then gave a short crisp touch pass back to Withey for an "And 1" opportunity with two defenders swarming at T-Rob.

I think for the first time this year you saw T-Rob forget about points, rebounds, the stress of carrying the team and just allowed the double teams to come and trust his teammates that they would "Make Plays".

After that, the game came to T-Rob and he still got his double-double! That was the part I enjoyed the most from last nights game.

Kye Clark 9 years, 9 months ago

If TRob and Withey can develop some chemistry it raises the ceiling for this team. We've seen them have trouble coexisting on the low block, but last night was a clinic on how to handle the problem of TRob being double teamed. Withey has to bring that mindset every game. He's got to look for his points.

Yolanda Gay 9 years, 9 months ago

I have to admit I was a naysayer regarding Jeff. But Jeff has really come through for us on several games. To get far, we are going to need Thomas and Ty. But I think the real key is going to be Jeff's contribution.

As we have seen in the past, it's hard to have only a 2 person offensive threat. We need another scorer.

Lin Rahardja 9 years, 9 months ago

Hope EJ plays more aggressive when the defense starts swarming TT... Coaches need to help EJ better with his shooting touch. He looks like he is slightly sitting down when he shoots...

Kye Clark 9 years, 9 months ago

I touched on the problem of not getting any point production out of EJ & Travis late last night. It is indeed a problem. It is definitely putting a cap on this team's potential at the moment. With EJ, it seems like all his confidence is tied into his three-point shooting. If he's not making them, he's not going to look for his shot inside the arc either. I disagree with your wish that he not make another 3 all year. We need another trey gun, more than we need him driving (although both would be nice), so that would be my hope for him, that his treys start falling. And at this point, given the season long slump he's in, I doubt any amount of misses is going to compel him to drive "into human contact" with any regularity. Travis...I'm at a loss. Jaybate keeps saying he has a bum wheel. I guess I missed that somewhere along the lines, and would have thought if that was the case we'd hear about it in the articles every once in awhile (as we did with Tyrel's foot last year). If it's true and just not being talked about, I guess it's a smart move to not advertise a weakness, but I just wonder how we know that's true. If he is physically incapable, I guess I understand. If that's not the case, I don't know how you get him to realize he is capable of so much more than just "glue". He showed he can score earlier in the year, and showed he can produce with limited shots as he did recently against OU. It's getting late in the game for Self to be installing new wrinkles, so whatever he's going to do, whoever he's going to light a match under, he'd better do it soon.

Vernon Riggs 9 years, 9 months ago

EJ did stop Baylor guard Heslip from scoring. He is one of the top 3-point shooters in the nations, average 10 points per game, zero 3-point made only one attempt. EJ also got 5 assists. The game is more than scoring. Yes, I think he can do. But, I was at the game he played a bigger role than the Box Score shows.

Kye Clark 9 years, 9 months ago

I agree. Both EJ & Travis generally play very good defense. I was by no means implying he was invisible. Just that going forward we're going to need one of them to assert themselves on that end of the court.

Also, if EJ's not going to be a threat offensively, he should be crashing the glass. Zero rebounds last night. At 6'4" with his leaping ability that would be an area he could pitch in and contribute as well.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

I am not as concerned about EJ as you seem, to be Slayr, nor about Travis as others seem.

Re: EJ--As with Tyrel and Brady in previous seasons, and Tyshawn two seasons ago, Self seems to be saying "Give me glue" to EJ and keep shooting the trey till they start falling. We've got to monster bigs and I'd rather they shoot inside and get three point plays, or you guys shoot treys, than waste possessions on mid range floaters with little likelihood of a foul and three point play. And absolutely do not drive to the rim, because I want the driving done by Tyshawn who is a better FT shooter than you guys and, when he drives down the lane from out front, he is in position to dish right, or left. to either of our big men. you guys driving on the wings are just not optimal to the offense, unless you do the old forward drive as TT does from the wing, and do 90 degree turn and go down the lane." (Pretend quote of course.)

Against a zoning team, like Baylor, the last thing you want is your wings driving into the mid range.

EJ is a guy Self can cut loose on the bounce at any moment in a big game, because there isn't video of him doing much driving. The opposing team's scouting report will say he shoots the trey and moves the ball. Doesn't drive. But everyone knows EJ could go to iron like a ten ton magnet. EJ is a good dribbler. He is a natural penetrator. He is a natural rim rammer. I am sure that in practice he puts it on the deck and goes to iron, but Self doesn't want it in games...yet.

Self is saving EJ for a big game moment, just as he sprung Travis when he needed another weapon. When the other team has succeeded in shutting down our big three, EJ will get the call, if he has more MUA than our bigs, or TT. He did this with Travis once this season and Travis hung 28 or so points. I suspect that EJ will be unleashed in one game before the madness to go to the rim. Why only one game? Because Self wants a big three and two ball movers. People never grasped that Tyrel and Brady could have gone to iron, too. If you can dribble and can get up 40 inches, and are 6-3, or over, you can go to iron from the perimeter. Brady is going to iron in the D league now without problem. Tyrel is probably doing the same wherever he is. EJ and Travis could be going to iron, or to a midrange game in a second, but that mid range floater game is just about extinct as a species. Who wants to shoot even 50% from 15, if you can shoot 50-65% inside and get a there point play about every third shot? Or alternatively, who wants to shoot 50% from mid range, when you can shoot 40 % from trey with fewer shots and score the same number of points, or more, while keeping the lane unclogged for your bigs?

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

Regarding Travis: Travis has a bad hoof. Race horses with bad hoofs don't race. It is a miracle that he can fight the pain, and move the boot, or whatever is now supporting his angle, and lock down on the other team's Top Guns. Self cannot realistically ask more of Travis right now. And shooting treys with a bum hoof is just a low percentage gamble.

EJ is going to come around with the trey gun. EJ will get his high iron diet game between now and the Madness, when it is needed. He didn't get it against Mizzou, because he was pretty busy on defense, and when Self finally quit sand bagging with 10 to go, the logical play through was TRob.

But EJ will get his day at the riim.

Why? Because Self wants to enter the Madness with one game of Travis dinging 28 and one game of EJ dinging 25 or so. He wants one game each that opponents have to think about come Madness time. Until then, he has to find ways to nurse Travis' hoof through the Derby (the conference) and the Belmont (the conference tourney) in hopes of getting him ready for the Preakness (the NCAA tourney).


Chris Shaw 9 years, 9 months ago

Oh, One stat to keep track of from last night....................14 3 point FG attempts! Is that a beautiful number or what? It's below 15 attempts which is even better and the number 6 goes with 14 pretty darn well because that means KU worked the paint and shot a little less than 43 percent from downtown in limited attempts! Wonderful!

That ladies and gents is a beautiful site. If EJ can just knock down 1 a game.............that's not asking too much IMO! Man, that stat makes me a happy camper!

Alohahawk 9 years, 9 months ago

+1 Doubt anyone on this site will disagree. 15 or less 3's per game is a good number. Keeps the opposition honest while keeping space open inside the arc.

Heard a rumor that the troll's held a suicide mass after last night's game. Columbia's police were notified but, instead of putting a halt to the proceedings, decided to contribute numerous guns, 14 inch knives, some poison pills and Missouriworst's address. Even they have been embarrassed by some of his lunatic ravings.

Ron Franklin 9 years, 9 months ago

What the heck was Quincy Miller thinking when he elbowed Withey. It looks like he was following orders from Drew. I assume this based on the look on Drew's face when the ref told him what the deal he knew it was coming.

Bville Hawk 9 years, 9 months ago

It was definitely a cheap shot and definitely premeditated since it came during a free throw attempt. I think you may be right that Drew put him up to it. Bush league no matter how you cut it.

Kye Clark 9 years, 9 months ago

You think Drew would have sat him for the remainder of the game though if he was doing it on orders? I disagree, I think it was all on Miller.

JayHawkFanToo 9 years, 9 months ago

The announcers indicated that the refs had previously warned Drew of Quincy Miller's rough play. In short, Drew knew what was going on and did nothing to prevent it.

Kye Clark 9 years, 9 months ago

No what they said was that the refs had been on Miller all game, not that they had informed Drew of anything prior to the elbow incident.

Ron Franklin 9 years, 9 months ago

AT the time I posted that I didn't realize he sat him the rest of the game. I think you have a good point.

JayDocMD 9 years, 9 months ago

A couple of thoughts on the Q. Miller incident:

  1. Miller was laughing it up on the bench, seemingly oblivious to the hole he put his team in. We got 1/2 FT's and Baylor lost possession. If I'm not mistaken, we then hit a 3. That's at least a 4 pt swing he cost his team at an important stage of the game.

  2. It was premedicated. No excuse like "heat of the moment." It was after the second of 2 FT's. On the punk scale that is in Cookie Miller (Nebraska) territory.

  3. I think it shows the type of player Baylor attracts/recruits. Not that they are all punks (PJ III seems like a good kid.) Rather blue chip guys that don't really know how to use their talents and/or don't know how to play smart. A collectively low B-ball IQ. Perhaps this is more a reflection of their coach?

Sam Constance 9 years, 9 months ago

You can't forget to insert Jorge Gutierrez in any conversation about college basketball punks...

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

Drew is no dummy. Self's KU teams regularly rough Baylor up physically. If Drew had left Miller in, there would have been serious retaliation sooner or later. Since Drew had to leave all of his other starters in to hope to get back in the game, the last thing he wanted was for KU to retaliate on one of his starters. So: he did the right thing IMHO. He benched the guy and made an example of him. Did Drew put the player up to it? Most here doubt it, but I am of the opinion that I haven't watched Drew and Baylor enough to know. XTReme Cheap shooting is a real tactic in college basketball the last few years IMHO. But about Drew, I just don't know. However, I will say this: Scott Drew's observable behavior in games and in hand shake lines and reputed actions in recruiting sometimes make me wonder about his character. I will leave it at that.

wisjayhawkfan 9 years, 9 months ago

How do you think last years team would do with this years schedule. Any thoughts? been curious about this for awhile.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

Last year's team would have beaten Kentucky and Duke, because last year's team already had a year under its belt at the beginning of the year.

Last year's team would have annihilated Missouri.

But it would have gotten upset somewhere along the line, too, as it was by UTenn.

wisjayhawkfan 9 years, 9 months ago

I think a loss by either kentucky or Duke, and one other loss along the way. so i would guess about 2 losses myself.

Steve Gantz 9 years, 9 months ago

You'd think I/we'd learn. Every year Baylor comes up on the schedule. A bit of a shiver goes through the spine, wow that's a talented team. Then we play them. And I think, what was I worried for? You see I always forget that they have Scott Drew and we have Bill Self.
Drew looked befuddled last night, almost like he didn't know what to do, almost like he had no halftime speech for the team.
Eventually the recruits are going to stop going there when they figure this out.
Or they're going to stop going there when the NCAA finds something that's happening to get all of those top players there. Ron Zook could recruit with the best of them, it was easy at Florida, not so at Illinois but he still had great recruiting classes. He got fired at Florida because he couldn't coach. He got fired at Illinois for the same.
If Baylor was smart they'd realize at the very least they've got a Ron Zook on their hands and let him go. On the other hand, these wins we get against his highly rated teams are most satisfying. Expectations to have a tough game melt away when you blow their doors off, our place or theirs.

Jeff Coffman 9 years, 9 months ago

Sorry to tell you, but they are a Top 10 team. Historically, Baylor has been lucky to be in the Top Ten in the Big XII.

Just like KU doesn't need to be in the Top 10 in football every year, we shouldn't complain or expect more when it does happen.

I think there are about 315-325 Div1 basketball programs that would be happy where Baylor is right now.

Although I do think Scott Drew isn't as good of a coach as a recruiter, he still blows away 90-95% of the coaches that are available. I would say don't give up Mark Mangino for a Turner Gill. Scott Drew would be closer to a MM comparison, you know you could do better, but you'll take a huge risk trying to do better.

Mike Kendall 9 years, 9 months ago

........................kitty, kitty----want to play a little game of baketbaaaal?????

Be scared--------be very, very scared of Stupidmichael and the Jeff Withey-led Jayhawks!!!!!!!!!

Robert Murphy 9 years, 9 months ago

I know I am late to the conversation but I think the most important thing for Withey is he must stop dribbling the ball. The first thing in the game he gets it down low and has plenty of time to score but he stops to dribble it and there it goes stolen by a smaller player. After that he was taking it to the hole and scoring (night @ day) . Usually when I watch a game when ever they pass the ball to Jeff I yell don't dribble it, and most of the time it is to no avail and more often than not it is to late to get the shot he can make or he is standing there in a sea of migets. One dribble and one shows up two dribbles and there seem to be ten. I can't believe Manning can't teach this better for with proper technique Jeff could be an All American. I could see by watching his high school tapes that he could develop into a great player and last night he proved it.

dtdjayhawk 9 years, 9 months ago

Does anyone think mizzou will lose on saturday to baylor? Just curious because i think there is a possibility

Kye Clark 9 years, 9 months ago

It's possible. Baylor played them tough in Waco. They'll most likely have to bring their "A" game again to have a shot. It's just how they respond to this loss. If they come out mad, aggressive, ready to get that taste out of their mouths (as we did last night) they'll have a shot. If last night's loss shakes their confidence, it could get ugly. I don't have a ton of faith in Drew to rally the troops and get them playing their best ball, so my guess is Fizzou takes it. But Baylor definitely has the talent to pull it off, and anytime you have talent you have a shot.

Jeff Coffman 9 years, 9 months ago

If MU shoots 50%+ from the 3-point If MU struggles from outside, than BU will go inside and make it close.

Personally, I don't think BU matches up good against MU and it will get ugly. But I also think BU matches up against KU very well, but they can't execute over a full game.

Mike Kendall 9 years, 9 months ago

Like 316, I don't have a lot of faith in Drew to rally the troops in Columbia, especially if they have Daily as one of their officials---LOL.

Like 316, it could get ugly, with Mizzou winning big. I just don't see how Baylor wins this game.

KansasComet 9 years, 9 months ago

Let's not get too high on this one. It was a great win, but as I have said before, "winning is a great deodorant". We still have a lot of work to do and a lot of kinks to work out. Hopefully we will peak at the right time. When we impose our will on the opposition, we are the best team in the country. When we get tired or play without confidence, we are not a very good team. I think by tournament time this team will be special. Confidence is the key. Go Jayhawks

KansasComet 9 years, 9 months ago

Let's not get too high on this one. It was a great win, but as I have said before, "winning is a great deodorant". We still have a lot of work to do and a lot of kinks to work out. Hopefully we will peak at the right time. When we impose our will on the opposition, we are the best team in the country. When we get tired or play without confidence, we are not a very good team. I think by tournament time this team will be special. Confidence is the key. Go Jayhawks

dmc67 9 years, 9 months ago

I don't think so. I was at the game last night. The fans left with a little over 11 minutes left in the game. The players pretty much quit after Miller's roller derby move. I'm not sure that Baylor doesn't lose 3 or 4 more games in conference. This team reminds me of UT with Tom Penders. The only reason to cross half court is to get a steal or inbound the ball after a make. I like Jackson and Acy. I think Perry Jones mails it in if anyone close to his talent level plays against him. Ratliffe wore him out in the first BU/MU game. If Mizzou comes into the game thinking that just because they beat us at home and we destroyed BU, they can coast through the game, that's the only way I see Baylor walking out with a win.

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago

"Some Ways to Get Tyshawn Some Rest (or Make It So He Needs None):"

~Get TT one of DARPA's new invisibility suits (the ones made of fiber optic threads that bend the light rays around you through the suit's fabric) and let him walk around scoring the hole game, because no one can see where he is.

~ Convert Tyshawn into a bio-wind turbine hybrid and have him run intermittently on hot air from Dick Vitale.

~Install a police crowd control microwave transmitter court side and gerry rig it to stimulate the sound of Beyonce's voice in TT's head saying, "If you play forty minutes, you can body me."

~Have him wear a camel back hydrator loaded with a Monster cola and epinephrine cocktail.

~Order TRob a super sized Baby Sling and let TT hitch a ride with TRob every other time down the floor.

~Cite print so fine in the NCAA rule book that no one can read it and let Tyshawn play the first half on a Segway Scooter.

~Break out one of those old mid70s rocket packs and let Tyshawn play the game 30 feet off the floor for a half.

~After the next game, slip him enough over-the-counter melatonin to keep him asleep till just before the next tip off.

~Tell him Wilt played 40, so he can, too.

KULA 9 years, 9 months ago

So we're all agreed that Bill is playing Tyshawn too many minutes and should be using his bench more? Especially in 20 pt blowouts. I don't suppose he could play Naadir for 3-4 min. with a 20 pt lead. The wheels might come off and we could give up a 10 pt. play.

Will he just have EJ bring the ball up and hope Ty can get 5 seconds of rest? Like he did with Sherron in '10? Sorry Bill, didn't work then and it won't work now. Remember how Sherron's field goal % dropped in March? Hope we don't start to see Ty's % drop.

HawkKlaw 9 years, 9 months ago

Not gonna lie - I was pretty bummed when we came out and got behind by 10 early. KU appeared ready to give the game away. We were getting out-hustled on both ends of the court.

And then Jeff Withey happened. What a night for the big fella!

Great things seem to happen when he and TRob get their touches on offense. Tyshawn is the vocal leader, but TRob and Withey lead by example.

And to answer Self's remark about Cole not having better games that Withey's last night: Recall the Final Four where Cole shut down Tyler Hansboro (not as great statistically as Withey last night, but a more meaningful game) and then there was the triple double Cole had with 10+ points, rebounds...and blocks. Other than that, yes, this is the best night a center has had since Self arrived in Lawrence.

BainDread 9 years, 9 months ago

The story quotes Self as saying “It’s probably about as good offensively as we’ve had a big man play here..." Several people questioning Self's evaluation when compared to some of Cole's great overall performances seem to have missed the word "offensively".

Tony Bandle 9 years, 9 months ago


Was that an intentional pun in the title or simply a fortuitous choice of words. Either way.....well done.

{ For those who are scratching their is the Baylor "Bears" after all!! ]

Tony Bandle 9 years, 9 months ago

P.S. MorganR...Is that avatar on the 8:13 am posting a picture of you? If so, "i chi caramba!!! " :)

Tony Bandle 9 years, 9 months ago're in a virtual tie for first!!!!

Spencer Goff 9 years, 9 months ago

I mean, I laughed... I mean, I would be shocked if it were any other school...

But yet... I mean... It is Missouri, and you have to print shirts with something on them.

Kye Clark 9 years, 9 months ago

Haha! So funny. KU is getting ready to sell (and wear on Saturday) 1952 retro jerseys celebrating our first NCAA tournament title, and Fizzou is celebrating a regular season win

Kye Clark 9 years, 9 months ago

Sadly, I have learned we made shirts too:

That's pretty lame. Clearly just in response to to MU making their shirts...since when do we follow their lead? Also, why print it up after a loss? If they really wanted to do that, print them up after the Big XII tournament, when you know the series is most likely over, barring a meet in the NCAA tournament. The series numbers will be wrong in a couple of weeks.

Lame. Weak. Disappointing.

HawkKlaw 9 years, 9 months ago

Wow. This is what we get for stooping to their level.

Kye Clark 9 years, 9 months ago

jwliddell - no one is disputing how lame their shirts are. But we are Kansas. This shirt is a joke. Anytime you have to defend something with the "yeah, but..." argument, it's lame. Especially when basically what you are saying is "yeah, but MU's is worse." We do not judge ourselves next to them! I think the people in charge of this obvious cash grab should be fired. And to everyone out there, if you wear one of these shirts - shame on you!

jaybate 9 years, 9 months ago


Your personalized avatar is posted in jaybate's Gallery of College Basketball Paintography. :-)

Jeeveshawk 9 years, 9 months ago

Assuming we win the games we should win, the game that decides the outright champion will be Missouri @ Kansas. Easy win for the jayhawks.

MrPilot 9 years, 9 months ago

Aaaaand, Murray State fades back into obscurity.

Matt Lacey 9 years, 9 months ago

Whoever wrote the headline deserves a bonus, or at least a week's worth of lunch. Multiple meanings in just four words. Perfect skill.

REHawk 9 years, 9 months ago

jb, thanks for the fine work on my avatar. I dropped a note to you at your gallery. Actually, I am computer impaired, not versatile at cutting, pasting, uploading, etc.

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