Tuesday, February 7, 2012

Despite loss, Jayhawks move up (!) in poll

Kansas head coach Bill Self protests a call against the Jayhawks during the second half on Saturday, Feb. 4, 2012 at Mizzou Arena.

Kansas head coach Bill Self protests a call against the Jayhawks during the second half on Saturday, Feb. 4, 2012 at Mizzou Arena.


Bill Self isn’t a bit surprised his Kansas University basketball team, which lost on Saturday at Missouri, actually jumped a spot from No. 8 to 7 in this week’s AP poll.

He’s in agreement with voters that the Jayhawks (18-5, 8-2) are a better team today than before Saturday’s 74-71 setback in Mizzou Arena.

“Three things we left the game with ... a.) They are really good; b.) We’ve got to close; and c.) We’re really good,” Self said Monday.

He sounded a lot more upbeat than after one of KU’s five losses this season — 80-74 to Davidson on Dec. 19 in Sprint Center in Kansas City, Mo.

“After Davidson? It was, ‘They’re good. We stink. We’re soft. We don’t care. We don’t like each other.’ I don’t feel that. If anything, I’m leaving Columbia thinking, ‘Hey we’ve got a chance to have a really good team,’’’ Self said.

“When we left Davidson, my deal was, ‘We may not win a league game.’ I feel a lot of positives in leaving Missouri. I didn’t see any positives in getting our butt beat in Kansas City.”

He had great praise Monday for his two veteran leaders — Thomas Robinson, who scored 25 points and grabbed 13 rebounds in 35 minutes versus MU, and Tyshawn Taylor, who had 21 points, three assists and six turnovers in 38 minutes.

“He’s getting to where he can put the ball down and get to the hole a lot better,” Self said of the 6-foot-10 Robinson, who on Monday was one of 20 players named to the midseason watch list for the Oscar Robertson Trophy, which goes to college basketball’s player of the year as voted by the U.S. Basketball Writers Association.

“He has a great heart, good motor, tries hard. He’s a stud kid having a tremendous year. His second half against Missouri (19 points, six boards) is as good a half as a guy’s played that I’ve seen. He didn’t get easy baskets. He had to earn every one of them. I’m proud of him because he’s developed into a force.”

Of the 6-3 Taylor, Self said: “That kid played great. If I had it to do all over again, I’d want him on the free-throw line more than anybody else on our team. He likes that moment more than anybody else (despite missing two down the stretch as KU squandered an eight-point lead).

“I don’t have anything remotely negative to say,” Self added. “He lost the ball once, and he charged once, and I know he wishes he could have that back. The first half I thought he played so well (17 points) that we had a couple of bad possessions, because he was feeling it too much. We’d call a play, and he said, ‘Well, I see an opening.’ If we call a play, run the play and then see the opening after you run the play.

“That’d be the only thing that I could say from his floor game, going into the last three minutes, that I’d say, ‘He could improve on that.’ I was so mad at him because Phil Pressey, who is a terrific guard, gets past him and makes a layup on a made basket. Other than that, defensively, pretty good.”

KU will meet No. 6 Baylor (21-2, 8-2) at 6 p.m. Wednesday in Ferrell Center in Waco, Texas.

Losing is no fun: KU has dropped five games this season. KU lost just three games in both Taylor’s junior campaign and sophomore year after an eight-loss freshman season.

“I’m not used to this losing thing. I don’t like how it feels. I don’t even know how to handle it,” Taylor said. “I don’t know what I’m supposed to do, how I’m supposed to act. I’m sure my teammates feel the same way. When we take an ‘L,’ we’ve got to watch tape, learn from mistakes and get better from what we did the previous game.”

Perry Ellis is No. 1: A Wichita Eagle double-check of the record books shows that future KU forward Perry Ellis of Wichita Heights is the all-time leading scorer in Wichita City League history.

It had been reported that Ellis needed 38 points to pass former KU center Greg Dreiling’s 31-year-old record of 1,963 points. The paper now reports that Dreiling of Kapaun scored 1,888 points from 1977-81. Ellis has 1,926 points, meaning he broke Dreiling’s record during Heights’ Jan. 24 win over Kapaun. Ellis’ accomplishment will be recognized during Heights’ next home game on Feb. 17.

“Congratulations to Perry Ellis on his accomplishment, one that came two weeks earlier than we thought,” the Wichita Eagle, official statisticians of the City League, wrote Monday.

Others on the Oscar Robertson watch list with Robinson: Harrison Barnes, North Carolina; Isaiah Canaan, Murray State; Anthony Davis, Kentucky; Marcus Denmon, Missouri; Daymond Green, Michigan State; John Henson, North Carolina; John Jenkins, Vanderbilt; Kevin Jones, West Virginia; Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Kentucky; Jeremy Lamb, UConn; Perry Jones, Baylor; Damian Lillard, Weber State; Doug McDermott, Creighton; Mike Moser, UNLV; Arnett Moultrie, Mississippi State; Mike Scott, Virginia; Jared Sullinger, Ohio State; Cody Zeller, Indiana; Tyler Zeller, North Carolina.


REHawk 2 years, 2 months ago

Well, here is my early evening take on the subject of coninuing the Border War. I am with Baylor women's coach Kim Mulkey who says No Way to the deserting teams. Nebraska, Colorado, A+M, and Missouri divorced the league. They are not to be allowed back in bed with us. Specifically, what does Mizzou have to offer Kansas? We have filled our 16,300 seats for two decades, and would continue to do so even if we scheduled Johnson County Community College. I hope never to see the Tigers re-enter the hallowed halls of The Phog, not in my lifetime. Missouri's continued attempts to find a more stable and lucrative landing strip did much to destabilize the Big 12, placing bigtime stress on Kansas athletics. Why would our program or fans ever again wish to undergo the ugly abuse and atmosphere in Mizzou Arena, aka The Paige? Having never achieved Final Four success, rarely do they fill their arena but for occasionally when superpowers like the Jayhawks come to play. What could be gained by our traveling annually to Columbia? Granted, the War might eventually reignite enough to be played on a neutral court, perhaps KC Sprint Center. If so, Kansas should agree to play for terms guaranteeing at least a 60% share of the gate. But really, why clog our schedule with a class B or C program? Let's wait at least 3 years before even considering a neutral site reunion. As a Big 12 school, Missouri was guaranteed annual access to Allen Fieldhouse and competition with a program which represents the historical seat of the very sport itself...the cornerstone of worldwide amateur and professional basketball. The Tigers have forsaken the value of a relationship with Kansas and our league. Frank Haith has inherited and, to date, done a terrific job with Flip Pressey and the seniors whom Mike Anderson left behind. Next season, the Tigers will be back in the basement of whichever conference has allowed their entrance. Their recent emergence is a mere flash in the pan, destined for a return to mediocrity. As far as I am concerned, bye-bye...forever.


longtimehawk 2 years, 2 months ago

Missouri will come in here and lay one on us and sweep he whole thing, basketball and football before the leave for the SEC.


hawkster007 2 years, 2 months ago

Hey, maybe we should lose to Baylor and KSU and move up a few more spots in the poll, NOT!

Anxious to get the memory of that Mizzou loss out of my head by beating up on Baylor.

KU really needs this win to hang with Mizzou and stay in contention. KU will definitely beat Mizzou at AFH, but if Mizzou wins its remaining games then KU can only afford one more loss to get at least tie for the conference.

I hope Withey was saving his game for Baylor, can't have any more games with one shot attempt and 0 points in 23 minutes, UGH, and against a 6'6" Mizzou player!

Self had few options and had to pull Withey and go small with Teahan, since Withey was doing nothing and at least Teahan might provide some outside shooting with KU behind. But Teahan gave up 9 straight points to Denmon, enough said, ouch!

Depth is bad when KU can't even pull a defensive stopper off the bench to help out.

Not much time left, someone off the bench needs to kick it in to gear and TR and EJ need to be more consistent down the stretch.

Go Hawks...


William Blake 2 years, 2 months ago

"Despite loss, Jayhawks move up (!) in poll"

Gheez... we must have grown in media stature to the level of Duke!


missouricat 2 years, 2 months ago

That was a very good game. Both teams played very good. Will be looking for the next one. This game worked out real good for me as I was able to collect $800 bucks on bets from the KU fans. Very good day to say the least.


Kye Clark 2 years, 2 months ago

What are the odds that if Baylor wins tomorrow they storm the court?


j0hnb1aze 2 years, 2 months ago

Join the Facebook group: I hate Jack Harry


jaybate 2 years, 2 months ago

"Tuesday Tells"

• Regarding the video of the referees with Alden, and the odd choice by Self not to play through TRob most of the game, and the sudden separation when KU began playing through the logical players, and the remarkably sudden outbreak of confusion among KU's two stars, let's not talk about whether the game was fixed, until we set some criteria for what we would need for evidence to conclude that an inquiry was necessary? Perhaps $27.5M was bet on the game, as I estimated yesterday. The line was KU +2.5. KU was Quickly up 8 with 2:30 to go, when it began to play through its logical players. When it's logical players suddenly became confused, it went down to -3 and lost, then Alen had an exchange with one of the referees. What evidence would be required to ask for an inquiry under such a circumstance?

• I suspect Self is going very positive, because he realizes his team almost won inspire of his flawed strategy, and he is proud of them for that.

•MU is not a very good team. KU would have stomped them, if Self had played through his bugs, instead of trying to take what they gave us. Foul them three less times than they foul you and they can't win. Period.


Tony Bandle 2 years, 2 months ago


Totally off topic but I know you have a more than passing fancy in architecture..I did not realize that Andrew Geller passed away this past December.

One of my favorite architects no one has ever heard of, his unique almost whimsical beach house designs of the '50s and 60's taught America that we all didn't have to live in boxes. His A-frame and Diamond designs still look great today.

Actually, a good basketball team is like a well designed building starting with a solid foundation, built with quality workmanship, but always maintaining a sense of flair and surprise.

Kansas may be a few bricks shy of a full load, but we sure have the flair and surprise part covered!! :)


KULA 2 years, 2 months ago

I really feel like Bill is mismanaging his bench (if you can call it a bench). What is Teahan doing in the game for 20 minutes? Especially at the end, getting torched. What, exactly does he bring?

Probably too late now, and I know I sound like a broken record, but Naadir should have been prepped all season to provide 5-6 minutes rest for our guards. 38 & 40 minutes for Tyshawn and EJ? Newsflash coach--tired players miss shots. Even free throws.

And you can't tell me that Bill's early hook of EJ throughout his career for the first mistake (or even for a great throw down) hasn't zapped his confidence. We can probably look forward to the same tentativeness from Naadir for the next few years.


Tony Bandle 2 years, 2 months ago

For you rivalry revival fans.

If anyone of you has had a wife cheat on you and leave you, it's the same feeling. Been there, had that happen to me.

Taking the high road, I don't wish any misfortune on her, but I sure as heck will never do anything to make her happy!!!

Part of the rivalry is historic, but a large part is that every time we played it meant something in conference. Each game had a direct impact on the season.

I will add one caveat..I will consider playing once each long as it was always in Allen Fieldhouse. If it's that important to Missouri to continue this rivalry, then that's a small demand indeed.....Correct!!??


Priest Fontaine 2 years, 2 months ago

Is there any chance at all that we could make a late move for Nerlens Noel? Seems to me that he would be the missing link for next year's class. I guess I'm just dreaming about the shot blocking yin and yang duo: Nerlens/Withey. White/Black, Senior/Freshman, West Coast/East Coast, Kid and Play/Beach Volleyball Dude...


cool_beans 2 years, 2 months ago

i wonder how the good the team would be if mclemore and traylor were able to play this season? for one thing though they would provide some depth to the bench.


MU_Fan 2 years, 2 months ago

Please don't shoot me! I'm not looking for trouble, I'm just trying to get a better feel on how KU fans feel about MU moving to the SEC.

Seems like generally MU would like to continue the basketball rivalry and KU would not. I assume both schools have enjoyed it thus far. Is the animosity due to MU leaving the confence at all? Is it because MU left the conference and potentially damaged the conference by doing so? Is it more that basketball fans are mad, or is it everyone? Were people this angry at Nebraska, Colorado, and Texas A&M? Would KU have gone to the SEC if they had had a chance?

I've always enjoyed the rivalry, and beating KU is big for us since KU clearly has a better basketball program than we do. I'm sure you have valid reasons for the anger, but being on the other side it's hard to get a real good feel for it. Any input would be welcomed.


wisjayhawkfan 2 years, 2 months ago

i am liking this tougher competition for the Jayhawks this season. I think this will help them prepare better for the ncaa tourney. I think the # 1 seeds over the last couple years gets to their heads too much and they arent prepared enough for the tournament. Maybe a 2 or 3 seed might be better for them. any thoughts?


oldalum 2 years, 2 months ago

Self was asked about Jeff's play during the post game interview, and he said that bigs play better against other bigs, and that smaller guys are always a problem for them. No one asked anything else, so either they understood what he meant or thought that was all they were going to get.


REHawk 2 years, 2 months ago

We are still not approaching efficient production out of the Thomas/Jeff twin tower combo. At this juncture, it appears that we might not see the offense go in that direction. Jeff seems to defer to Thomas, on both ends of the court...perhaps rightly so. Thomas is such a force this season, driven to produce numbers and contribute in such energetic explosive fashion that his natural mindset is to make things happen or play the inside out game rather than trust Jeff's sometimes tendency to bobble passes. Perhaps Self's inside-out offense has merely taken so long to install and polish this season that we might yet see more big-to-big action as the season winds down. There appears to be so much untapped potential remaining to be gleaned from this offense; such as EJ's gradually learning to pump fake for open midrange shots or drives to the bucket. Any thoughts???


BCRavenJHawkfan 2 years, 2 months ago

Hmmmm, Coach Self turning up the Dr. Phil approach. Good move.


REHawk 2 years, 2 months ago

Actually, the Tigers are in first place all alone today. By 8:30 tomorrow night, either the Bears or Jayhawks will again be tied with Mizzou. Not a good feeling at all, having to play catch up. I am traveling without my DVR, so was not able to record the Sat. game; but did see the rerun yesterday on ESPNU. Came away with the same sour feeling about our disregard for clock management in final 2 1/2 minutes. The two players who made the most significant boost to our offense throughout 37 minutes of the game played in a fog down the closing stretch. If there was anything shady about the refereeing, we certainly played right into opportunity for whistles. This has to be a monumental learning experience which should remain with returning starters the remainder of this year and next. With an 8 pt. lead going into the closing couple of minutes of an otherwise very close game, the clock becomes as much an enemy as the opposing team. Gotta close out and win over both!


Ralster Jayhawk 2 years, 2 months ago

Good points. I thought going in to TRob late, like we had for most of the 2nd half would have been "my armchair thought". Maybe it was a chessmatch call to have Tyshawn penetrate vs the "obvious" Trob play, idk...

Again, TRob+TT played their butts off. EJ had a nice opening for that last 3, but he hesitated, then forced up junk, which shows he hasnt been in that position before except for very late vs. Duke...Also the too-early-in-possession 15ft pullupJ from TRob and Ty's unfortunate turnover is all very, very visible when the players review the last 2:25 of game tape. I guarantee the players are seething mad about this loss, just as Self himself said, "we had em right where we wanted them--I wont be letting this loss go...".

I know I was getting that "smelling blood"/"we got this" inner feeling right up to where TRob got called for a phantom charge and they took his 2pts off the board...still coulda won with wise clock mgmt, afterwards, though.


Bleed_Crimson_Blue 2 years, 2 months ago

So which came first, the chicken or the egg?


HawkWatcher 2 years, 2 months ago

Every year it seems Self's guards step it up midseason and become as he said A Force. Coincidence? I think not. Bill Sellf COTY


wisjayhawkfan 2 years, 2 months ago

what is everyones opinion on this Frankamp kid. he sure seems to be a scorer. Is he playing against pretty decent competition and do you think he can put up big numbers at KU?


namder 2 years, 2 months ago

I remember almost those same words come out of Larry Brown's mouth after we lost to Mitch Richmond and K-State at home in 1988. Larry saw something that told him we were improving and you know he was right. Other than the last 3:00 and the final score there was a lot to be happy about Sat. night.


REHawk 2 years, 2 months ago

Roy's N.C. team has three kids still on this list, and the TarHeels can't stay among the top 3 or 4 teams in the nation.


Jack Wilson 2 years, 2 months ago

From the game Saturday .. of the media .. the question I want asked of Bill Self is what play did he call with 25 seconds left? The one were Tyshawn got the charge call. All I saw was Self saying that TT perhaps started too early. He didn't say anything about him not running the play, etc.

Clearly, it appeared that the plan was for TT to try to penetrate off the dribble. That's the best we've got? I would expect that we would have a "go-to" play or two vs. man and vs. zone when we need a bucket. Just like you have in-bounds plays to score. Each with second and third options.

What I would expect would be that Self would say .. versus a man, let's run ""; and if they come out in a zone as they did vs. Texas, let's run "". Versus the man, if we have a breakdown, let's go with "". Versus a zone, if we have a breakdown, let's go with "."

Of course, none of the media asks him. Did I miss that? All I saw was this quote in general from Newell's notes: "Self would run a play, and Taylor thought he saw an opening and would try to make something happen." .. a general statement about the second half

How hard is it to ask coach Self if, in the huddle, he called a play vs. a man and vs. a zone; and if so, did TT ignore the play?

If TT ignored the play and just tried to free lance, then he is getting way too much of a free pass here. If TT thought he "saw an opening", there is seriously no hope for him from a judgment perspective in that sort of pressure situation (as a senior). But I have hesitated to comment on that point and blame Taylor's judgment because I just don't know what was done in the huddle.

Really, regardless, I would say that it is Self's responsibility to demand that they run the play, not accept a free lance that quickly, and if it breaks down, then go to option b or c.

It would be nice to know.


Adam Collins 2 years, 2 months ago

Considering the remainder of both MIzzery and our schedule, do we pretty much have to win out to take/tie for the conference championship? Mizzery's final schedule is essentially a cake walk on the road and they've been good at home. Thoughts?


nuleafjhawk 2 years, 2 months ago

I don't disagree with Coach Self very often, but I do here.

We are not "really good". We're close to being really good, but really good teams don't give up 8 point leads with 2 minutes to play.

On a more positive note - Hell has officially frozen over. We have finally joined Duke and North Carolina in that elite group that loses games and moves up in the rankings!


IrishCharlie 2 years, 2 months ago

Bucknell is licking their Chops....................


hathead 2 years, 2 months ago

Time to sober up, homers. MU is good this year. Obviously better than KU. And the record bears this out. They could well sweep us...


Martin Rosenblum 2 years, 2 months ago

Just realized something. In the scheme of things, Mizz won the battle Saturday, but KU won the War!

The Border War is officially over. I am looking at the upcoming game in Lawrence to be a sort of war re-enactment. As in all re-enactments, the side that won the war always wins the re-enactment to be historically accurate.


KansasComet 2 years, 2 months ago

We have ability. The question is confidence. Are we confident in each other when the games are tight? Who are our "go to" guys? Who should be on the bench when it is crunch time? Who do we want on the foul line? Those are questions that need to be answered going forward. I believe we have five players that can get the job done.


jayhawkinATL 2 years, 2 months ago

Sorry, Coach, but I would rather have Withey at the line.


fansincewilt 2 years, 2 months ago

Self makes me feel a whole lot better. It's a shame that a game sometimes comes down to a ref's call like this one did but that is just a part of basketball. I think in the end the Jayhawks will go further than the Tigers but time will tell. Whatever happens, I think this team has exceeded most everyone's expectations. We cannot cry about the NCAA decision or the bad calls. This team hasn't and will benefit from that in the end. The guys are proving that they are pretty rough and tough.


refugee 2 years, 2 months ago

Jakaar Sampson is visiting in a few weeks. There isn't a lot of info out there on him. It seems like we have a lot of kids that fit his profile already on the way. Do we have a scholarship for him? Anyone have any more info?


Nick Cole 2 years, 2 months ago

Posted these videos on another article, but thought it would be nice for all to see. Spread the love. - Is it normal for the refs to shake the AD's hand in the tunnel after the game, or do I smell a Frank Haith/mizzou NCAA violation cooking already? - Why does the ref look so d@#n excited to make both of these calls? And the first one, against T-Rob, the ref was out of position with two players standing in front of him blocking his view.

Get up big on Baylor, and close . it . out!!!


KU_Alumn_2000 2 years, 2 months ago

That Missouri loss was one of the hardest KU losses I've ever dealt with. It just really pisses me off. Blood is still boiling...and I think Self's is too.

I'm sick of talking about how good this team is. Like the fact that Self is sticking up for T-Rob and Taylor...but lets quit talking about how good we are.

How about getting a little bit pissed off...get focused...get some freaking blood in your eye...and go out and dominate this conference from here on out. No mercy on Baylor...and no mercy on Mizcrap when they come to Lawrence. Beat them by more than 20...and do it again in the conference tournament.

It's time for Relaford and EJ to STEP UP ! No high happy emotion from here on out...just freaking go out and dominate.


jayhawkinoregon 2 years, 2 months ago

I'm not expecting a blowout at Baylor. They are a good team and it is their home court. Coming away with a win, even by a single point, will feel very good. Go Hawks!!!


jayhawker_97 2 years, 2 months ago

i couldn't agree more with coach Self on this one:

“Three things we left the game with ... a.) They are really good; b.) We’ve got to close; and c.) We’re really good,” Self said Monday.

those who are still looking for someone in the team to blame (yes, i still blame the f* refs), you are pathetic losers. we earned the spot. period. BU better watch out. it'll be another blow-out game.

r o c k c h a l k!!


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