Tuesday, December 4, 2012

KU football by the numbers

Some of the digits behind Kansas’ fall into the abyss

Some of the numbers behind Kansas University's dismal 2012 football season.

Some of the numbers behind Kansas University's dismal 2012 football season.


Mind-blowing numbers help to illustrate just how deeply a Kansas University football program that went 12-1 and won the Orange Bowl five long years ago has slipped into the abyss.

A paint-by-numbers look at the state of KU football:

0: That’s how many touchdowns Kansas wide receivers combined for in the first year under Charlie Weis, hired in large part because of his history of success in developing quarterbacks. Linebacker Schyler Miles carried the ball once and rushed for one more touchdown than the wide receivers had touchdown catches.

D.J. Beshears, Chris Omigie, Tre’ Parmalee, Daymond Patterson, Kale Pick and Andrew Turzilli all caught passes, but none of them reached the end zone.

Zero also is the number of sacks that Josh Williams produced in his lone season at Kansas after graduating from Nebraska. Williams made 12 starts, drew solid grades for assignment-soundness, etc., but never became the impact player advertised by Weis. Even so, Williams did more than the other college-graduate transfers dubbed the “cavalry” by Weis.

1.5: The number of sacks produced by the team co-leaders in that category, Toben Opurum and Kevin Young.

5: Consecutive seasons with a diminishing victory total. Since the 12-1 Orange Bowl season, the season victory totals: 8, 5, 3, 2, 1.

7: Touchdown passes thrown by Kansas quarterbacks. Dayne Crist threw four, Michael Cummings three. Todd Reesing set the school record with 36 in 2007 and matched it in 2008.

11: School-record loss total for 2012 team. Also, the losing streak the Jayhawks bring into Sept. 7, 2013, season-opener against South Dakota in Memorial Stadium.

21: Big 12 losing streak, which could have been worse. The 2010 team came back from a 45-17, fourth-quarter deficit in a game in which Colorado coach Dan Hawkins put padding his son’s passing statistics ahead of winning.

If not for that, KU’s conference losing streak would stand at 33.

Also, Kansas has lost 21 consecutive games against teams from the Football Bowl Subdivision.

22: Consecutive losses in games played outside of Lawrence, including three losses at Arrowhead Stadium.

37: Distance of the longest field goal Kansas kicked in 2012.

94: Kickoff returns for Beshears, enabling him to set a Kansas record for kickoff-return yardage (2,123). You don’t want to return that many kicks because it means the opponent is scoring too often.

116: Where Crist finished in quarterback rating standings among players with enough passes to qualify. He finished last with a 96.5 rating. Alabama’s A.J. McCarron was first with a 173.1 rating. Cummings did not have enough passes to qualify. He had a rating of 88.5.

277: Days until the Jayhawks can start to reverse all the negative karma with a victory.


Adam McEwen 5 years, 5 months ago

you forgot a couple numbers, 1, the strength of schedule we played this year. Also, 5, the number of games we had a very legitimate chance of winning despite our inadequacies of talent at the skill positions. Pretty impressive progress given what a mess he inherited from Gill if you ask me. Charlie has us on the right track, even if the W-L doesn't show it yet.

Steve Quatrocky 5 years, 5 months ago

AGREED. The wins per season correlate directly to the talent pool. When Lew started a midseason investigation against Mangino, it threw away a recruiting class, Gill never had the credibility to recruit so there are two more years thrown away. So, now Charlie enters with 3 out of the 4 prior years of recruiting having been in the toilet, he doesnt even have a place kicker. He used every trick he could think of to inject some talent quickly, as you cant sign 50 free agents to fill the holes in your first year like in the NFL. He added 25 to the roster while losing the normal senior class AND kicking another 15 or so off the team for disciplinary and academic issues to turn the program around.

The ghost of Joe Paterno or Woody Hayes couldnt win many games with this years roster. Not saying we didnt have some talent, but not nearly enough to even cover the entire starting lineup, against Big 12 teams that go three deep, explaining why we had a few close but no cigar losses.

He gets to add 25 more this year and that will lead to at least one Big 12 win, but we cant expect him to really compete (ie Bowl Eligible), until he has a third recruiting class. In Charlie I trust, just like with Coach Self. I honestly cant think of anyone who can turn our program around faster than Charlie and Campo but NObody could do it the first year.

Dirk Medema 5 years, 5 months ago

Don't blame Lew for everyting that happened with MM. Everyone basically loses a recruiting class with a coaching change. It's the same with Gill, because his one complete class was solid. It is just tht the top players + some as you mentioned were asked to walk away.

texashawk10 5 years, 5 months ago

How many of those players are still with the team though? When you kick most of the good players in a class off the team, it negates it being a good class. There's still a few good players, but a lot of them were purged when Weis got here.

Micky Baker 5 years, 5 months ago

I agree. It was really Gray-Little that came in and shook things up. Lew saw the writing on the wall and left, and when he left he left a little something for Gray-Little to show, there was a reason Lew, Not Gray-Little, was rated one of the world's top sports executives. Firing Mangino for the reasons that they said they did was a mistake.

kfluke 5 years, 5 months ago

He could not win with the talent he was getting at Notre Dame, how do you think he can win with the recruiting/talent he will get here?! He will be here for 3 to 5 years at the most and then be gone!

Dirk Medema 5 years, 5 months ago

Also missed the number 12, that correlates nicely with Rawk's suggestion. That's the number of opponents playing in the post-season (playoff or bowl games). That's everyone.

ku_foaf 5 years, 5 months ago

True. It was obvious this was going to be a very tough season and we probably wouldn't win any Big 12 games. Everyone was good but us! Iowa State was not quite as good compared to the last couple years, but still better than us.

yates33333 5 years, 5 months ago

I normally like Keegan's articles, but I hate this kind of comparisons. Everyone knows this was a bad, bad team. Give the dog a rest, quit the kicking. They won't be any better, ever. Further, this just pis$es off people who supported Mangino even more. I still think Weis can improve KU football. If next year's performance isn't at least four or five victories more then there is time to begin to doubt him. What happened at Notre Dame can't be compared with KU. Look at their schedule during his years there and then look at ours. Likewise if he can recruit at KU at least 2/3rds as effectively as he did at Notre Dame we will see that improvement. He has a really good coaching staff. He needs more players who can do what he wants and buy into what he is doing. Anyway, ska-rew this article.

KUFan90 5 years, 5 months ago

Better check those QB ratings Keegs. Those can't be right? Crist 173.1, McCarron 96.5, Cummings 88.5?

Matt Tait 5 years, 5 months ago

Just had them flip-flopped. Crist did finish 116th but he was the one with the 96.5 rating while McCarron had the 173.1. It's fixed above now. Thanks.

texashawk10 5 years, 5 months ago

I think you got the QB rating numbers reversed TK unless they went to a golf style rating system where lower numbers are better. I would also be curious to know how the college QB rating system works because it seems even more screwy than how the NFL does their rating system.

Saguaro_Jayhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

NCAA's algorithm --> Passer's Efficiency =

[(8.4 x YDS) + (330 x TDs) + (100 x COMP) - (200 x INT)] / ATTEMPTS

Jim Erickson 5 years, 5 months ago

Two points need to be made. Point one is that some very good coaches have had rough seasons year one. There was not a lot to work with. Weis and Co. deserve more time before judgements are made.

Weis made something very clear in his initial press conference that I agree with: 2 Wins, not matter how you spin it, does not cut it. In this case: 1 win, no matter how you spin it, does not cut it. This season was not a step in the right direction. 3 wins and staying competitive in a few more games would have been a step in the right direction.

Here's to hoping for that clear step in the right direction next year.

Jim Erickson 5 years, 5 months ago

Crist seems like a great kid so I hate to rag on him any more than has already been done, but the biggest mistake in the Weis era thus far was sending Jordan Webb packing. Webb was not exactly Hesiman material, but if he was our QB and put up the same numbers as last year (63% Completion, 1900 yards, 13 TDs to 12Ints) we may have won a couple more games.

Steve Quatrocky 5 years, 5 months ago

True but hindsight is always 20/20. I didnt hear any debate over the decision to go with Crist at the time, and if you are going to give the starting job to Crist, it was only fair to let him go the way Charlie did, I respected that.

Remember, a lot of Webbs numbers were in the fourth quarters of much bigger blowouts, against second and third teamers so its a lot of conjecture.

Keeping Webb as a backup to Crist and winning a game, or even two, doesnt make a difference in the long run but treating him like a man, giving him his freedom, and not wasting his senior year selfishly was the right thing to do ethically.

Jonathan Allison 5 years, 5 months ago

it was actually his junior year, though he had already graduated and was eligible to play immediately at CU. He is enrolled in graduate courses at CU and has one more year of eligibility remaining.

That doesn't change the fact that letting him go was the best option for Webb. he wasn't given a chance this year and likely wouldn't have much of a chance next year either. By transferring to CU with 2 seasons of eligibility he has a chance to reestablish himself in a way that Dayne Crist never could have here at KU.

mahkmood 5 years, 5 months ago

Agree. I don't know how Weis - the supposed QB guru - missed so badly on Crist and chased off Webb. I think it had a lot to do with removing any competition for loyalty for Crist. It seems Weis is more into the height, weight, and whether he recruited the player than on the field performance. Crist looks the part, but never produced at ND. Weis probably would have chased off Reesing because he was too short. Hopefully Heaps will produce.

Robert Brock 5 years, 5 months ago

No QB will produce without receivers. Who will be the receivers?

Dan Pawlowski 5 years, 5 months ago

Disagree, Jordan Webb was not the answer for CU this year. They had a Merry Go Round of QBs starting this year and when I saw Webb play he was overthrowing wide open receivers.

Robert Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

I find it amusing that there is a contingent of people who find a silver lining in this season and are optimistic for the future. We are now using strength of schedule to 'justify' our bad season. I am not sure I buy into that. How many Big 12 teams are now ranked? Two. One poll has Texas hanging on at 24 or 25. What about last year? We had five ranked teams in conference. Don't tell me how great NIU is. They lost to a terrible Iowa team; had to make a big comeback against KU, and gave up 40+ points to Army.

Some are saying less blow out. Really. I count five conference blow outs in each of the last two years. Last year, we were blown out by A&M, UT, KSU, OU, and OSU. This year we were blown out by KSU, WV, ISU, Baylor, and OU. Are you telling me that this year's WV game was a better blow out that last year's OSU game? Of course that OSU team was a BCS team while this WV team is unranked.

I agree it will take some time. I hope this was the right hire, but I have not seen anything that gives me as much hope as some of the other people have here.

MoralVictory 5 years, 5 months ago

You make some good points but remember that every opponent in the league was bowl-eligible, NIU won 11 games and won the MAC conference championship, SDSU won 9 games and Rice is in a bowl.

To me, there is little argument that it was a very tough schedule.

But both you and Keegan are right, things have gotten pretty dire. In my mind the conference performance is the most damaging statistic.

Win a game in the conference next year, win a road conference game, and things will start to change.

Jim Jackson 5 years, 5 months ago

You make some very good points and I am not going to discount what you said about the blowouts. I don't know if anyone recalls, but in year 2, Mangina had us in the Tangerine bowl with 6 wins going the same route Chuck is going now, JUCO players.

That being said, Mangino did not have Jake Heaps who holds some BYU records already (and does not have knee/mobility problems like Crist) and he did not have 4 Super Bowl rings to flash in recruits' faces.

I am a firm believer, this staff can not only recruit better, but evaluate better. I look for 6 wins next year barring injury.

Rock Chalk!!

Dan Pawlowski 5 years, 5 months ago

Some people always see the glass as half empty.

Saguaro_Jayhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

88 -- Total number of tackles by LB Ben Heeney during the 9 conference games; trailed only OU's Tony Jefferson who had 91.

At least the Jayhawks leading tackler played from a Front Seven position. Much better than having a Safety as your defense's leading tackler, like a few prior Jayhawks' teams I have watched.

5 years, 5 months ago

I love the effort Heeney gives, 100% the whole time he is on the field. Probably my favorite player this year. Looking forward to seeing him play the next couple of years.

Jake Waddle 5 years, 5 months ago

Love Heeny... think he has a chance to be very solid for the rest of his career. Reminds me of Nick Reid or a smaller, but faster Mike Rivera. Not sure how fast he is (4.6-4.7 range?) but he plays fast to the ball. He'll be a good guy to build the linebackers around and then hopefully Miles will be ready to roll full-time next year as well.

shelleysue 5 years, 5 months ago

LOVE Heeny. If he was out cold on the field, he'd still try to get up and tackle somebody. He is the most fun to watch since the three amigos.

Robert Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

How many bowl eligible teams in the Big 12 last year? That would be 8. So it's not as if the conference is that much stronger than it was last year. It is easier for teams to get bowl eligible in a conference when one team is 1-32 in its last 33 conference games.

Micky Baker 5 years, 5 months ago

Really? Baylor beat K-State and Oklahoma State. Iowa State only lost to K-State by 7. It isn't just the conference, but 1 BCS Bowl from the Conference, only because there can only be one. Then OU in the Cotton Bowl. Then there is a Non-Con in a BCS Bowl. Northern Illinois is playing in the Orange Bowl this year. This schedule is the toughest schedule that any team in the Big 12 has ever had.

Boouk 5 years, 5 months ago

There's actually 9 bowl eligible teams, idiot.

vd 5 years, 5 months ago

Don't look at any of the numbers. We are better. Crist was better then Webb. Weis is a coaching genius, Gill is an idiot. Every pass incompletion this year was a dropped pass. Every incompletion last year was Webb's fault. We know that Heaps will be better then Cummings, Charlie said so. We know McCay is great, he had 5 stars. We know that we will be bad for a few years. Why? Because Charlie is dealing with Gill's recruits (Simms, Pierson, etc.) When we no longer have these untalented Gill recuits, we will be contending for a NC.

2008KUGrad 5 years, 5 months ago

Did you watch any of the games? Sims & Pierson (when he wasn't hurt) were two of our best players on the field. In fact, Sims is 1st team All Big XII & put up over 1000 yards in 9 games this season. The one thing Gill did right is recruit good running backs. I'm hopeful Charlie & Dave can recruit some major Juco talent, so we're far more competitive this coming season. We already landed the #1 Juco linebacker in the nation & he picked us over kstate (even after going to see them win the league last Saturday.) With our coaching staff's resume & opportunity for immediate playing time, recruits should give us a good look. If we had a good passing game, we would have squeeked out a few more wins this season. I wouldn't trade our running backs for any other teams' running backs.

KGphoto 5 years, 5 months ago

Pretty sure that was some weak sarcasm by vd.

Micky Baker 5 years, 5 months ago

Simms wasn't recruited by TG. Operum wasn't either, neither was MacDougal or Greg Brown. None of the WR's were recruited by Weis, none of the Oline were recruited by Weis, Pattmon, not recruited by Weis. Ben Heeney, should have played as a true freshman, but Gill said he was "too fast".

John Thomas 5 years, 5 months ago

but Heeney, Shepherd, Pierson and Mundine were....i know it hurts to give Gill ANY credit...but be honest with yourself...those are good foundation players for the future.

Boouk 5 years, 5 months ago

A rare (and really stupid) Liberty troll.

Robert Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

Hard to project next year. I'm not sure how strong the conference will be. KSU, WV, TT, Baylor and OU lose good senior QBs. Perhaps some of the coaches will move to better jobs. There are some rumors that Gundy and Briles are targeted by some other programs. That could help.

I would be concerned about the offensive line next year. We lose a lot of experience.

KGphoto 5 years, 5 months ago

Not sure I want the conference to be weakened by losing coaches right now. We just need to get better to compete with those guys.

I'm a little concerned about the OLine, but you lose experience every year. Last year we lost Jeff Spikes and Jeremiah Hatch. Our guys will have a year of this offense and a year of Holsopple under their belts to start next season.

I imagine Damon Martin, Aslam Sterling, Dylan Admire, Gavin Howard, Randall Dent, Luke Luhrsen and Riley Spencer will all be improved and ready to go. With Beckmann, Peters and Connolly waiting in the wings.

Robert Brock 5 years, 5 months ago

Will KU complete a pass to a WR next season?

Micky Baker 5 years, 5 months ago

This team improved quite a bit from last year actually. How about comparing last year's statistics to this year's, particularly on Defense, to get an actual comparison that doesn't use fallacies of reasoning. Statistics can be misused, and the rating only is a misuse of them.

VaJay 5 years, 5 months ago

I have always wondered why "kickoff return yardage" has ever been something that is considered a record worth mentioning at all. What is the point? It has nothing to do with the ability of the kick returner and everything to do about how porous your defense is. Any time someone for KU sets a record for that, it is only a painful reminder of how far we have fallen.

Robert Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

Azhawk The statistics you posted are worse than I thought. To me the biggest disappointment is that the offense was so bad given that we have a supposed offensive genius as a head coach. I envisioned that we would get into a lot of shoot outs this year. We couldn't score in a league that plays no defense.

The reality may be that Briles, Gundy, Holgerson are better offensive coaches than Weis at least at the college level. Weis was the OC at Florida last year and they weren't all that disappointed that he left.

KGphoto 5 years, 5 months ago

He definitely coaches a tough style for for college, and especially for this league. You did see him give in a little though. Running a lot of option and Jayhawk formation as the year progressed. I really believe you need to be in a pro system for a couple of years before it starts to click. It's definitely more difficult to run, and coach I imagine, than a spread offense. ESPECIALLY when you have less talent to start with.

Personally I hope he continues to utilize college offensive schemes, but I worry that he is hell-bent on making his way work. If he does make a pro offense work at KU though, he will be cemented as "Genius" to me.

Micky Baker 5 years, 5 months ago

You're still not being genuine. It's not hard to be, just give an effort.

Micky Baker 5 years, 5 months ago

For example, last year we beat Norther Illinois 45-42 at home, this year we allowed them to score 30 at their place and lost by 7. Norther Illinois is playing in the Orange Bowl this year, and we only to them by 7!

Kansas State is also a BCS Bowl team, and well, we were down 21-14 in Manhattan at the half. The third quarter was a disaster, but K-State didn't have almost 50 points at halftime.

Last year, Oklahoma State scored 56 on us by halftime, this year they beat us 20-14 in 4 quarters.

Are you starting now how to use statistics ethically?

Or should we just continue to assume, NIU isn't from a BCS conference, so we should "beat them". They're playing in a BCS Bowl. Parody mean anything to ya?

Mick Allen 5 years, 5 months ago

Compare the ISU and Baylor scores to the same games last year. May we use these comparative scores ethically? I would be more optimistic about the improvement shown this year if not for the 2 turds we laid in the last games you remember all off season. As distasteful as it seems, occasionally you have to take off the rose colored glasses. We are light years away from being competitive in the Big 12.

James2080 5 years, 5 months ago

Numbers and Stats are like (blank), everybody's got one. Why can't KU just win football games?

KGphoto 5 years, 5 months ago

The inconsistency was eerily similar to last year. Decent performances, even near wins and hope of turning the corner, followed by disheartening blowouts. For the life in me I can't figure it out. How can you literally go back and forth like that, week to week, for 2 years?

Reuben_J_Cogburn 5 years, 5 months ago


And I read a point further up in the thread that I agree with. Don't use strength of schedule as justification for this. Zero TD's from wide receivers. 7 touchdown passes between TWO QUARTERBACKS.

Are you kidding me? This program is all but dead, and these numbers prove that. I have to swallow the lump in my throat when I admit to people that I'm a KU football fan. This coaching staff must be held accountable for it, and if they're the passionate, honorable football men they claim to be, they will own up to it.

I don't care about the talent gap, rebuilding year, recruiting...none of it. I would be embarrassed to be a player on this team, and if I were a recruit out there, the University of Kansas is the last place I would want to attend. And all recruits need to do to come to that realization is listen to Weis talk, and talk, and talk.

Talk is all he brought here. And the funny thing is...I'm not calling for his head. Because why should we? Who would do better? We had one shot with this program with Mangino, a direct byproduct of Bill Snyder. Hard-working, blue collar guy. That's the type of guy KU needed, and we ran him out of town.

Weis is what we've got, and we have to deal with it. There's no other solution. But to those of you making excuses to justify the crap we just witnessed, grow a pair.

It's not fair-weather fandom. It's a matter of not accepting failure. And Weis has failed so far. I will not give credit where it isn't due. As alums, boosters, fans, and students....we deserve better.

Hope for the best, but this season put a lot of things in perspective.

KGphoto 5 years, 5 months ago

If you can't find a bridge tall enough in KC, come to lovely Colorado. The Bridge at Royal Gorge, should be adequate. :-O

Reuben_J_Cogburn 5 years, 5 months ago


A bit dramatic I know. Just had to vent, brother.

I'll try to keep it a bit more reserved from.

Micky Baker 5 years, 5 months ago

Except, this was the toughest schedule that KU has ever had, and any Big 12 has ever had since the Big 12 was put together.

Reuben_J_Cogburn 5 years, 5 months ago


Rice is pretty tough.

And it was just announced Sunday evening that KU was NIU's biggest victory.

I repeat...KU was NIU's biggest victory. If that's not insulting to NIU, I'm not sure what is. And it proves just how messed up the BCS is.

We all know Iowa State is a powerhouse.

And we were just a little rusty against South Dakota State. That's why it was so close at 31-17.

Come on, man. The toughest schedule in the country is no excuse for not one wide receiver getting a touchdown, or only throwing for 7 TD's on the season. It's called denial, and you've got it bad.

nuleafjhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

".....but never became the impact player advertised by Weis."

Insert just about any name you like regarding this season, Charlie doesn't seem to know much about "advertising".

LJD230 5 years, 5 months ago

Is there a compelling argument for continuing football at KU? How is the reputation of the school among alumni and donors strengthened by the embarassment wrought over the last two seasons?

nuleafjhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

5: Consecutive seasons with a diminishing victory total. Since the 12-1 Orange Bowl season, the season victory totals: 8, 5, 3, 2, 1.

Look at the silver lining - at the very worst, this trend can only keep up for one more season.

wildjayhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

Could it be that Weis and Zenger may be on the chopping block?

Reuben_J_Cogburn 5 years, 5 months ago

We can't afford it. But people should be equally as disappointed in Zenger. Remember, there were quite a few questions about the Weis hire from the beginning.

It will be interesting to see what transpires in the next few years if we continue to win 1-2 games a season.

Steve Gantz 5 years, 5 months ago

I think this article was plagiarized from an article written in the later 80's when I was a student at KU.

Bradley Sitz 5 years, 5 months ago

Heyden Fry always preached that College Football was a game of field postion, turnovers, open field tackling, and being able to make 3rd Down and one yard.

So, he always emphasized having a great punter, field goal kicker and a fullback. The rest of the talent you develop via JUCO and by outworking your opponents in finding the high school athletes that may be 2 inches too short or twenty pounds too light. But, are fast excellent athletes -not specific postion players. Then, you red shirt every offensive and defensive lineman. The key is you have to develop talent, if you are not an Alabama or OU

So, my question is does KU have an incoming punter or field goal specialist that can improve our horrible field postion problem?

Reuben_J_Cogburn 5 years, 5 months ago

We don't adhere to what makes sense.

We're unconventional.

Steve Gantz 5 years, 5 months ago

How about this number? 3-21 Record of last years national championship teams Kansas and Kentucky, two schools whose sports priority is definitely something other than football!

wildjayhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

I mean I am for KU but, the way things are happening there is quite questionable. Gill was the worst thing KU did, getting rid of Mark Mangino was another. Looks like Ku got a brain fart and jumped of the bridge. The Mangino situation could have been handled different without the firing. Ku wouldn't be in this situation now, if they didn't fire Mark, plus have afew more bucks in the kitty, (Gills 6 million). I hope Weis gets this turned around like Mark did in his first couple of years. If he doesn't, there needs to be a complete cleaning of people couch, AD, and up the laddler. Ku will never be considered for a move to another conference with this type of football record, basketball will not do it.

Terry N Tom Denner 5 years, 5 months ago

Remember people, Snyder went 1-11 his first year at KST. Stop with the BS about how bad the Hawks are and look at were the Hawks are headed. New wave of QB's coming in next season and I feel a whole lot better knowing that. Crist could not hit his ass with both hand little lone throw the ball to an open receiver. Give Charlie and his staff a chance to prove themselves. This years 1-11 record will be a distant memory in no time. Keep the faith !!! Go Jay Hawks

Reuben_J_Cogburn 5 years, 5 months ago

New wave of QB's?

Our starter next year is as highly-touted and ranked as Crist. And just like Crist, he failed at his former college.

Like Keegan says, Weis misspoke calling these transfers "The Cavalry."

I have hope too, but I refuse to buy into Jake Heaps or any other player we bring in until they prove themselves. And until then...I can't help but expect a 2-win 2013 campaign.

And all joking and pessimism aside, I'm not out of line for thinking that.

KGphoto 5 years, 5 months ago

Actually Heaps was the highest ranked QB, but he was still only 4 stars by rivals and the 63rd ranked player in the country.

Crist was a 5-star #2 ranked QB, 27 overall in 2008.

If it makes you feel better, Andrew Luck was a 4-star ranked as the #4 QB in the 2008 class, #68 overall. Almost the same as Heaps.

Rankings, huh?

kfluke 5 years, 5 months ago

How can you compare Charlie Weis to Bill Snyder, WOW... Bill didn't have any previous head coaching experience at a high level of play like Charlie has. Charlie has been to Notre Dame with a lot more talent than he will ever see here in Lawrence and did not succeed. Bill Snyder is one of the best coaches of all time and I want to throw up that you compared Charlie to him!!!!

danmoore 5 years, 5 months ago

He had two chances to get his team to the title game. Came two plays short against A&M about 12 years ago and lost big time against Baylor this year. Urban Meyer and Nick Saban are great coaches. Snyder is good but not great. Hope he wins the Fiesta.

Reuben_J_Cogburn 5 years, 5 months ago

He's not comparing him to Bill Snyder. He's simply stating that even currently great college coaches could have had a terrible beginning.

The comment is relevant regardless of Weis's experience before KU or Snyder's before K-State.

Bill Snyder is a much better college coach than Charlie Weis...end of story. But Crusty was simply stating that you can't always judge by one season; using Bill Snyder as our most relatable example.

Read a little context before you throw up.

kfluke 5 years, 5 months ago

He was definitely comparing that if Bill Snyder can come back from a bad start then Charlie Weis can... Remember people, Snyder went 1-11 his first year at KST, how is this statement not saying Bill Snyder started this way and now look at him. He is stating that Charlie can do the same thing and I do not agree, he failed at Florida, KC and now he will do the same at KU!! The only reason he was successful at New England was Tom Brady and another man named Bill.

JayHok 5 years, 5 months ago

Speaking of that wonderful Orange bowl season, another team or two is currently chasing our 12-1 record with a BCS bowl win, the Oregon Ducks being one. For the Jayhawks, against late top 5 competition that year, we lost to a # 1 team by a TD on a neutral field in freezing rain. Imagine what could have been if that game was at Memorial like it was supposed to be. Beat the #4 team in the nation by a few points on a neutral field. Also think about the recent times we've almost beat Texas with an average team but that year we didn't get a shot at them when we were loaded. Not our fault. Ended up with one vote for #1 in the final AP poll. Beat OSU on the road. Beat A&M on the road. Whipped Nebraska.

When was the last time a team with a bird mascot, Duck, Jayhawk, Eagle, Vulture, or Hawk, ended up with a single vote in the final football poll for #1?

  1. The Kansas Jayhawks. The football Jayhawks.

Last good thought of the day. 12 or so of the starters for ND were recruited by our current coach. Our line coach was on the last ND champion in '88. I never thought I'd say this, but go Fighting Irish!

Robert Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

Picking Weis was a risky pick which was widely panned by the pundits. I know, a lot of you don't care about that, but it is still relevant.

There is no way we needed to pay him what we did and the jury is still out. I think reasonable people believe he needs 3-4 years.

I always thought Zenger picked Weis to create media buzz. That is not the best reason to pick a coach. Time will tell. Weis says the right things and I believe works hard. But talk is cheap and we need to see results. Fortunately for him the bar is set pretty low. Mangino is now a legend and he elevated the program to 7th or 8th best in the Big 12.

KGphoto 5 years, 5 months ago

Chryst inherited a pretty talented team at Pitt, and still, only equaled the win total of the previous year. 6-6 and 3-4 in the Big East with that squad is not necessarily a superior coaching job.

Reuben_J_Cogburn 5 years, 5 months ago

At least we'll have James Sims and Tony Pierson next year.

I tip my hat to those two. They've got skill, heart, and character.Give them a healthy year, and they will turn a head or two.

But in order to do that, we at least need a competent quarterback. Not Heisman, All-American, or even All Big XII honorable mention. We just need someone who doesn't fold under pressure, can run if necessary, and doesn't fire the ball 20 feet above our receivers' heads.

Competency...that's all we need. If we have that, the rest will come. I hope Jake Heaps is what they claim. If not, pull red-shirts, start freshman, or whatever it takes to find a guy who can give this offense a spark.

I don't care if it's Heaps or the towel boy. Find that guy. Otherwise, you won't see much difference between next season and the one we just suffered through.

shelleysue 5 years, 5 months ago

We have Weis and that's who we need to support along with his staff and players. But I will say it again. I was really hoping for an up and comer who was ready for a head coaching gig.

Lucas Town 5 years, 5 months ago

Here's another number for everyone. We were almost a really good team. We were a 7 point loss to NIU from being a BCS caliber team. We are almost there. - humerous sarcasm

Here is one for HCCW, have you figured out why one team in this state is 1-11 and the other is 11-1? The gap just got a little bigger.

I think that the success we have in basketball inflates the realistic perception of our football team. I am pulling for Weis to get thing headed in the right direction. I can say that watching our team we are better than last year, but we are miles from everyone else in the Big 12. Next year I look for us to win 2 of our 3 non-conference games and 1 Big 12 game. I am pegging us around 3 to 4 wins next year and we will see more improvement. There is just so much to fix. Keeping my head up! RCJHGKU!

carolinahawk 5 years, 5 months ago

Kansas has an excellent football facility, but it is in a small state with limited recruiting potential. Only a coach with a national reputation can overcome our instate recruiting issues. Charlie Weis is such a coach. Yes it's alarming that we started the season without a kicker, and that he stuck with Christ for so long, but no program is built in a year. If we are still a football wasteland in four years, fire Weis, fire Zenger, fire the guy who sweeps out the locker room.

texashawk10 5 years, 5 months ago

Was this season a disappointment? Absolutely. That said, this team was better overall than last year. Obviously this team still isn't anywhere near being good, but I did see Charlie Weis and Dave Campo lay a solid foundation this year for the future. When you turn over half a roster, including 5 or 6 of the best players from the year before, there is going to be a lack of talent. Even with that loss of talent, KU's defense still managed to knock over a TD off of their scoring average from a year ago and that's pretty significant. This team also finished 4th nationally in fewest penalties and penalty yards per game this year. Anybody who watched KU over the last 3 years should have been able to see a huge difference in the players knowing their assignments this year compared to the past 2 years. Little attention to detail things like this are what give me hope that this team will get better under Weis and Campo. Discipline and knowing your assignments are things any player can control regardless of their talent level and KU was light years better in those areas than the previous two. Emphasizing accountability in the classroom, knowing the playbook, and using proper techniques on the field will translate to more wins when an improved talent level and that will be what determines how far Weis can take KU.

Summary for those of you who don't want to read all of this, Charlie Weis and Dave Campo laid a great foundation to build upon this year by strengthening the mental aspects this team can control, now can they upgrade the talent and if they can, KU will become a solid team.

Reuben_J_Cogburn 5 years, 5 months ago

But will that translate into wins?

Foundation is essential...I get it. But the questions remains. Does Charlie Weis have the ability to create a winning environment? And if he does have what it takes, will he be around long enough to achieve it?

Unfortunately, I can't say I know the answers.

JayHok 5 years, 5 months ago

Two other things to keep an eye on. Strength coach at KU, second to none. Multiple top notch Juco players committing, a first for the Jayhawks. Players ready to play, right now.

This is the mold that will work. We need a smart QB with an accurate throw, some scrambling ability if need be, and some tall fast wide receivers who play catch in their sleep. Running backs. Check. Game breaker. Pierson. Check.

Defense will be interesting to watch Campo mold over te next couple seasons. Positively we'll have the best recruits coming in we've had in a long long time. It's up to our strength coach to get everyone fired up, ready to go 4 quarters.

We should see a bigger better faster team next year. Its better to just think about each play. Don't worry about the record for now. Same thing we do for basketball. Look forward to the moment, as fans or players. If we win more of those moments we'll win games. If we lose more of those moments, we'll lose games. As long as the strength coach is who Ohio State fans think he is, we should be in excellent shape in the next few years. The Florida Gators strength this year comes from primarily which coach? Our current strength coach. That's probably one of the most misunderstood elements of college football. Offseason training.

nuleafjhawk 5 years, 5 months ago

I said it at the beginning of the season and I'll say it at the end. We won't be considered a very good football team until we get a kicker(s) who can compete in the top tier of Division 1 football.

The fact that our longest field goal of the year was 37 yards (and that was probably with a 40 mph wind at his back) is one of the saddest stats I've seen in a long time.

Kickoffs were embarrassing. Punting was embarrassing.

HCCW needs to find some top notch kickers in a hurry - all aspects of the kicking game need much improvement.

Despite the one win season, I was still encouraged that we were competetive in many games and had great opportunities to win some of them. That was not the case last year - the 40, 50, 60 (? don't remember for sure) blowouts happened on a regular basis and I think we have made great strides towards being competetive.

Micky Baker 5 years, 5 months ago

One of the players being pursued,Ishmael Hyman, a 6'0" 169 lbs. (when was a junior in high school) with a 4.49 40. There is another kid on the list, Marquel Combs, LB.

troutsee 5 years, 5 months ago

Iowa State has 25 oral committments. We have 13.

Robert Brown 5 years, 5 months ago

JHW- I have no idea where your recruiting comments came from. Here are the final Rivals rankings for KU over the last few years:

2008 following Orange Bowl: #31 2009 following Insight Bowl #40 2010 : Mangino fired; Gill hired #55 2011: Gill gets full year to concentrate on recruiting #34 2012: Gill fired; Weis hired #74 2013: Weis full year #62, still could improve

This indicates that Mangino did not stop recruiting. Even 2010 looks decent given that he was fired. It also indicated that Gill did a decent job the only year he had to recruit. It also shows that Weis is not yet setting the world on fire with his recruiting, but the season is not over.

We need to get over the "Weis had no talent" argument.

BringBackMark 5 years, 5 months ago

We're all blaming head coaches when, if you think about it, the AD's have been the one responsible for our pathetic position in football. Perkins was on a Witch Hunt for Mangino from the time he got to KU. He finally succeeded, then hired more to be said. Then, we have an opportunity to still salvage a program that was only three years from success and we hire Weis. I'm not sure what Zenger was looking at here unless it was the "Calvary". That was a miserable failure and it's probably going to get worse from here. We've passed on some incredible coaching talent to bring in Gill and Weis. Now we have one of the worst programs in the country (again). Nobody will want the job and we'll have to go back to the wishing well.

I've had season tickets since Glen Mason's second year. I will not purchase another one until I see some attemp to put a quality product on the field. I do sympathize with the quality athletes that we do have (e.g., James Sims) that must wonder why they ever came to this school to play football.

Good luck to all of you faithful that think Weis will get it done. From what I've seen, he's not been missed from any position he ever left, in fact, most of them have risen well above the level they were at when he was there. He says everything that we want to hear but when I see him consulting with the West Virginia QB, after that last debacle, to try to increase his NFL stock I really have to wonder where his allegiance is.

BringBackMark 5 years, 5 months ago

Love your optimism. Sorry, my screen name is my business. Grow up and look at the facts around KU football since Jack Mitchell. Almost every coaching hire has been the "easy way out" including Mangino. Do you really, really, think CW is going to a) be here long enough to build a sustainable program, and b) even if he would stay that long, where has he demonstrated that he can do it?

It's people like you that seem to think we can bring in a bunch of Juco's and other school's leftovers and build a program. We saw how well that worked this year. We could have 5 (count them) 5 redshirt freshman with a year of experience in the program for next year. Instead, we have 1-11 record and we're saying goodbye to the 5th year transfers. I completely agree that a coach needs 3 or 4 years at least to build a program so why is CW trying to do it over night? I guess you really didn't read what I posted or maybe reading isn't your strong suit.

beebe1 5 years, 5 months ago

Offense looks glorious, but DEFENSE WINS GAMES!

Our Defensive coaches can't coach Defense.

Your reporting has been very good, but -- with you and all other JW staff --you don't seem to know anything about Defense!

You published a story that 'Bowen got it'. Shame on all of you, we' re at the end of the season, and he never 'got' anything.

You published a story about Campo having to work so hard for Defensive schemes. He clearly doesn't understand 'The Notre Dame Defense'. Probably less than 10 yrs old when Parshegian brought it out. Almost no coaches do!

The last game for me was K State. Zero Defense. Examples: KU #24, 23, and 55 hit the sub QB at the same spot. He shook them all off and made an extra 10-12 yds. No one covered the receiver running backward down the field, but our db showed up, didn't look for the ball, but pushed him out. Gain of 17 yds.

Two basic items are essential to ANY defense: Tackling and coverage. Defensive Schemes are a poor third place.

Elmer Schaake's tackling rules (dated 1941) are:

                                 1. Belt Buckle Rule
                                 2. Hesitate and Adjust Route
                                 3. Wrap Him Up (hopefully in the thighs)

Bill Self's Coverage Rules

                                1. Belt Buckle Rule
                                2. Be in the passing Lane
                                3. Stop the ball (before it gets to the receiver)
                                4. Tackle if you miss

The Defensive Scheme has to do with the assignment of defensive responsibility. The defense in 'The Notre Dame Defense' is man to man. The easy way out is to put our best coverage man on their best receiver, no matter where he lines up. A defender is assigned to every backfield man and the extra receiver. In any event, the Rules apply.

Even LSU and Old Miss had pretty poor defenses. ND has finally revised and installed Parseghian's defense. It would be virtually impossible to find a good coach who understands Defense.

Suffice it to say, we haven't had a good defensive coach for at least 9 yrs (maybe for 1 yr 8 yrs ago).

And the JW staff has no idea what a good defense is. You talk too much about 'talent' and the schemes involved. Our coaches didn't teach 'tackling' nor 'coverage". No 'scheme has any valur without those basics.

Get a new Defensive Coach! .

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