Originally published August 20, 2012 at 05:08p.m., updated August 21, 2012 at 02:16a.m.

Milton Doyle spoke with Self on phone before deciding to transfer

Several schools have 'major interest' in Chicago guard, mom says

Kansas newcomer Milton Doyle works out with the Jayhawks for the first time on Monday, June 18, 2012, at  Horejsi Center during Bill Self's basketball camp.

Kansas newcomer Milton Doyle works out with the Jayhawks for the first time on Monday, June 18, 2012, at Horejsi Center during Bill Self's basketball camp.


Milt Doyle, who returned to his hometown of Chicago on Aug. 13 for a weeklong visit with his family following Kansas University’s basketball excursion to Switzerland and Paris, planned to catch a flight to Kansas City International on Sunday for the start of first semester classes Monday at KU.

He had a change of heart after a serious phone conversation with Jayhawk coach Bill Self.

“We spoke to Milt at length Sunday on what we thought his role would be within our program,” 10th-year KU coach Self said Monday in officially announcing the 6-foot-4 freshman guard’s decision to transfer to a yet-to-be-determined school.

“We discussed his options, and the first option was welcoming him back for the fall. His leaving is entirely his own choice, one that he felt was best for his future. We expected him to be here, but he thought it was better for him to go to a place where he had a better opportunity to impact a program early in his career,” Self added. “We wish nothing but the best for him. He is a great kid.”

Doyle, who averaged 19.0 points, 7.0 rebounds, 5.0 assists and 5.0 steals per game his senior season at Chicago’s Marshall High, has not announced a possible list of schools. He will have to sit out this season in accordance with NCAA transfer rules. It is possible he would have red-shirted the season had he stayed at KU, but no final decision on that matter had been made, Self indicated.

“We are hopeful he can get in (another) school soon. Surprisingly, there are still a lot of schools with scholarships, and they have major interest in Milton,” Doyle’s mom, Lisa Green, told the Chicago Tribune on Monday.

“He is OK with that,” she added of practicing but not playing in games this season. “He wants to be able to develop as a player, learn that team’s program, have room to grow and get his degree.”

Green on Monday told the Journal-World there were no hard feelings that things didn’t work out at KU.

“Milton likes everyone on the KU team and got along with everyone,” Green said via text message. “My son was his (Self’s) son’s roommate. Coach Self is still cool in my book.”

On Sunday, she told the J-W in a phone conversation: “It’s nothing bad about the school or the coaches or anything. Sometimes things happen for a reason.”

Doyle’s departure leaves KU with 12 scholarship players, one under the limit.

“I haven’t made a decision on anything yet,” Self said, asked if the scholarship would be awarded to Justin Wesley, who was on scholarship last year.

KU currently has five available scholarships to award to players in the high school recruiting Class of 2013. So far, the Jayhawks have landed commitments from Conner Frankamp, a 6-1 senior from Wichita North, and Brannen Greene, 6-4, senior Tift County High, Forsyth, Ga.

McLemore update: Self said KU freshman Ben McLemore (hip flexor) would return to action soon. “Hopefully he’ll start working out by the first of next week,” Self said.

Recruiting: Anthony “Cat” Barber, a 6-2 senior point guard from Hampton (Va.) High, likely will visit KU the weekend of Sept. 14-16, according to Barber, the country’s No. 9-rated player, is also considering Alabama, Louisville and North Carolina State. reports that two other players — Troy Williams and Tyler Roberson — also may visit that weekend. Williams, ranked 41st, is a 6-6 small forward from Oak Hill Academy in Mouth of Wilson, Va. Roberson, who is ranked No. 53, is a 6-8 small forward from Roselle (N.J.) Catholic High.


Bobby Burch 8 years, 8 months ago

Fair enough, Milt. Can't help but shake my head, though — he could have been patient and been a part of something great! Best of luck ...

hawk316 8 years, 8 months ago

He obviously has potential based on his high school performance in Chicago. But it appears that he possibly might not have received much PT for a while. Personally, I can't blame a kid for wanting to play. Your college career is relatively brief, and if you can find a good school that can offer more playing time sooner, sometimes it makes sense to transfer. It doesn't always have to be a big ego thing. Hopefully, he'll find a good situation for him.

Sae Thirtysix 8 years, 8 months ago

Flip side translation: MD picked up some sweet swag, trip to the EU, and now youngD and is Momma can be re-recruited all over again. Have a feelin' they will love the attention.

parrothead8 8 years, 8 months ago

You don't get offered a full ride to play basketball at KU if you "suck."

Ben Kliewer 8 years, 8 months ago

Translation: Billy don't play OAD b-ball, so you're going to pine-ride until you've earned your PT. Translation: Milty wants OAD-ball.

Bangkok_Jayhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

I don't think anyone, including the Doyle family, thought he was a one and done.

Ben Kliewer 8 years, 8 months ago

Well, still, Billy's theory on riding pine until you've earned your PT still stands. Am I right?

Bangkok_Jayhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

You're right on that one. I think there are two different kinds of kids that "ride the pine"... Guys like Releford who are talents that need developing, and guys like Milton Doyle, Merv Lindsey, and Quintrell Thomas who will probably be over matched their whole time here. If it were me, I would much rather be a star at a place like UNLV or TCU then be a guy who can't crack the rotation here.

HawkKlaw 8 years, 8 months ago

Completely out of touch with reality, I see. No way Milt is a OAD.

jhox 8 years, 8 months ago

It will be interesting to see if he ends up at a school close to home. It's likely a combo of playing time and home sickness.

Ted Hume 8 years, 8 months ago

look, he was destined to have to work his ass off for a couple of years to develop into a regual rotation guy, and just wasn't up for it. he didn't suck, he didn't think he was one and done, he just needed to face the competition posed by the current roster for 10 days of practice and hear the reality of Self's plan for him to figure it out. That's all. is what it is...

Kyle Sybesma 8 years, 8 months ago

This sounds like HCBS having an honest conversation with a young man about what this upcoming season looks like for Doyle after an accurate evaluation of his talent in Europe. It's got to be a tough conversation to have but I think it's best to let a kid know that this may not be the place for you if you want playing time. Good Luck to you Mr. Doyle. You may want to check out Tulsa down the road.

Ben Kliewer 8 years, 8 months ago

+1 on the sweet Nike NFL-style football helmet design.

escaped_labrat 8 years, 8 months ago

+100...would love to see the players wearing that helmet with plain red jerseys and blue pants

danmoore 8 years, 8 months ago

Please don't let that happen. Let Oregon have the distinction of the worse uniforms in college.

Kyle Crenshaw 8 years, 8 months ago

we'll also let oregon get all the great recruits because of said uniforms.

ku_foaf 8 years, 8 months ago

Well, if you don't like Oregon's uniforms, just wait until next year. They seem to have totally new ones every year!

I've liked some of them, some were just odd.

jayhawkike 8 years, 8 months ago

Except can you do it with the 1941 "Fighting Jayhawk"??? That'd rock.

Pitthawk34 8 years, 8 months ago

These things are all a part of a healthy program. What it means is that we have some good young ballers here and on the way.

JayDocMD 8 years, 8 months ago

We need to give young Doyle his due for taking over the "Jayhawkardashian Award" - the all-time Jayhawk who has received press disproportionate to his accomplishments. (Exact formula is number of LJW articles divided by length of time on campus.)

JayDocMD 8 years, 8 months ago

As do I - not trying to be mean-spirited. This comment is really geared more toward the LJW and the onslaught of M.D. articles we had several months ago.

KGphoto 8 years, 8 months ago

It was news. LJW is in the news business. If they hadn't published it, readers would've bashed them for ignoring the situation.

JayDocMD 8 years, 8 months ago

Funny or not, it was an attempt at humor. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Dyrk Dugan 8 years, 8 months ago

translation: "you're not good enough to be in the regular rotation right now....and who knows if you will. and if you can't handle it, thanks for using our facilities for free for a summer, and good riddance."

that's not what Bill Self said...or even thought. but that's definitely my thoughts. i'm sorry, but this kid sounds like someone who thought he was something special, and he got here and found it he wasn't. and he's unwilling to devleop and get better, and actually get special.

we have plenty of kids who are chomping at the bit, to get on the court. we'll be just fine. Mr. Doyle, good luck.

KGphoto 8 years, 8 months ago


Do you also feel this way about Tyrone Appleton and Merv Lindsay?

Good riddance? Kind of harsh considering the amount of speculation involved. Nobody heard the conversation with Self and Doyle. Maybe the kid thought he was better than he is, but to assume he left because he wasn't willing to work is a blind guess. For all you know Bill told him "It's gonna be three years before you see meaningful PT, (hint, hint) with all the talent coming in, and what's on hand. Perhaps you'd like to check out these other schools and see who'll give you an opportunity to make an impact immediately."

As long as we're guessing, I'm guessing that's the more likely transcript. Don't forget that he is competing against a stellar group of ballers over the next four years. There's no shame in losing out to these guys. I think he'll make an impact for some lucky school.

Eric Dawson 8 years, 8 months ago

I think folks are being just a bit hard on Doyle. It's a very chilling and disheartening experience at any age to be thrown in the deep end and realize that, in the minds of the people running the show (and maybe even your own), you are not as good as you thought you were. Give him credit for leaving now for some place he can be happy and playing (either Div II, more likely JUCO, at this point, since he wants to play right away). It would be a shame if he had chosen to stay @KANSAS, then hated it so much that he soured the team vibe with his unhappiness.

And it's not like Self wasted a scholarship on Doyle. Self had one left since he missed out on some of the late transfers he was trying for, so he got some guard insurance in case Rio didn't make the grade. Expect the scholly to go to one of the walk-ons for this year (Justin again?), probably sooner rather than later.

In the meantime, good luck, Milt, wherever you end up.

gchawk 8 years, 8 months ago

Great post, accentuate the positives and being realistic. I, too, wish the best for Milt. I had a very humbling experience in college where I found out that I wasn't near as good as I thought I was. Mercifully I blew out my ankle before I had to get cut, but I realized after a few weeks of practice that I was way out of my league. Not sure if this is actually what happened to Milt, but I wouldn't be surprised.

riverdrifter 8 years, 8 months ago

Well said. "It's a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll."

jayhawker97 8 years, 8 months ago

yeap. and people who said Milt is no good should go play 1-on-1 against him. there's nothing wrong to have a dream. if he wishes to become main contributor, there's plenty of schools who'd love to have him. the kid has tremendous talents of which HCBS already has in current line-up. i'd really love to watch him playing but, like Milt said, sometimes things happen for a reason. that's all.

Brad Avery 8 years, 8 months ago

He will have to set out this season anyway. So he isn't going to have an "early impact" anywhere.

Eric Dawson 8 years, 8 months ago

He won't have to sit if he goes JUCO or Div II, or NAIA for that matter. I would think he will try for a JUCO close to home so he can play and make an impact this year, then next fall try to jump back up to a Div I program that's not quite as intimidating as KANSAS.

John Randall 8 years, 8 months ago

I wonder what his situation is regarding transfer. Has he actually enrolled? attended classes? Would a transfer to a D1 school require sitting a year? I also wonder if their conference was initiated by Doyle, by Self, or a regular thing for all players.

As far as we know, there are no academic or character issues beyond being too impatient for playing time. KU is not a program where it is easy to just walk in and be an immediate contributor. At his age, a year or two to earn his spurs may seem like forever. I doubt that jumping ship a second time this year will enhance his recruit profile much. Bill Self has been consistent about helping anyone who transfers out to find a good place to go, but this may not be an easy one on that score.

Best wishes, Milton, on your future endeavors.

Vernon Riggs 8 years, 8 months ago

He attended Summer School. He will be required to sit out one year. If he would have attended class today, he would have had to finish his classes this semester. He would have been able to transfer then. He would have eligible in the Spring-2014. Now he will be able to play Fall-2013.

billnict 8 years, 8 months ago

Actually think he could play D2 or Juco ball this Fall but if he sticks with D1 you are right...

Steve Kubler 8 years, 8 months ago

It is a strange situation, he might be eligible spring 2013, although I'd hate to bet on it. Then again the way the NCAA works next year we will find out he could play this fall anywhere he wants.

Marcia Parsons 8 years, 8 months ago

"I also wonder if their conference was initiated by Doyle, by Self, or a regular thing for all players."

In the past Self has always had conferences with all the players at the beginning and again at the end of each year. No doubt this was that conference, and he was disappointed with what the coach saw as his role for this year. I'm sorry he decided to leave, but it may not just have been playing time. Maybe he was too homesick. A lot of players in "Beyond the Phog" talked about how rocky their first few weeks were away from family. I hope he finds a place that works for him. As for how he is viewed by other coaches, I doubt if that first transfer is held against him since he lost the coach there. Good luck to him. I hope he does well somewhere else.

justoneperson 8 years, 8 months ago

I wonder if there is any way for Jayhawk nation to alleviate some of this, without violating NCAA rules or turning into Gil Renard...

Ray March 8 years, 8 months ago

stupid kid... everyone wants to be the star "right now" as a freshman.

how about you follow Self's direction and let him develop you into a real player???

trustyourSelf 8 years, 8 months ago

my thoughts exactly (maybe not stupid, just prideful)

RJ King 8 years, 8 months ago

Speaking of transfers, this site has, of late, picked up the equivalent of yahoo sports and espn posters - the kind who powerfully stick their anonymous necks out to name call and make mean-spirited, derogatory, ugly remarks.

Where did these poster come from? What sort of personal misery and insecurity justifies the departure from class and intellect? I'm becoming ashamed and embarrassed to be associated with a now sizable amount of Kansas fans.

ldjayhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

I understand. For a young man who is confident about his abilities, he just made the choice that he thought would be best for him, not sure for his development though. There is always a fine line between playing starters in a relatively less-exposed program and being patient and playing potentially 2-3 years at a power house. Which one suits Milton better? I am sure that he and Self have different opinions. That's what happened. Shame but who knows, maybe things work out for him? Maybe not. Life is about choices. I wish you luck, Milton. One thing for sure is that you will not get a better supporting fan base wherever you go. But we will remember you as a Jayhawk anyway.

mikehawk 8 years, 8 months ago

Maybe he was being encourged to red shirt. He won't be the only frosh to find out the school of his/her choice/dreams was not what they wanted or needed. Many a first year student at a large university will pack it up and head home to regroup very early in their semester. Let's be glad Milton made the decision now and not later for his sake, and KU basketball. Let's not turn ugly on young kids and their families. Good luck young man.

RJ King 8 years, 8 months ago

and not have to read ugly thread comments. (not yours)

kureader 8 years, 8 months ago

Milton saw the writing on the wall ... you can't blame him for leaving. Why not go somewhere where he'll get to see the floor? And, Self definitely didn't shed any tears ... he may say it was all up to Milton, but I think it was mutual.
Recruiting has to be a frustrating thing ... these kids and their parents change their minds twice a day ... you recruit 5 kids to get 1 kid. Milton was signed before Self knew exactly who else who be on his roster.
You can't blame anyone here ... this is how the system works. Good luck to Milton. Self gets to reuse a scholarship, now that he knows more about his 2013 signees and what his needs really are.

Doug Cramer 8 years, 8 months ago

I still wonder if Coach recommended that he red shirt. He could of been a solid player if he did red shirt...and gained all that experience getting better.

Michael Luby 8 years, 8 months ago

There is always going to be a certain rate of attrition at all of the major Div 1 programs, KU not excluded. Prime example, after the 06-07 season, Julian Wright bounced early for the NBA which opened up more PT for Sasha Kaun and Darnell Jackson. They ended up winning a national title. Im not saying these guys will win it all this year bcuz Doyle bailed. But sometimes these things happen and it just makes the team better, more cohesive.

Alohahawk 8 years, 8 months ago

No one can point one's finger that KU is alone regarding transfer problems. recently (this summer) ran a partial list, which BTW didn't include Doyle's name, of 2012 NCAA BB players announcing their decisions to transfer to other schools, which, if I remember correctly, totaled in the hundreds. So your right, there is a large attrition rate in the ranks. And those weren't all bench-warmers. There were a number of starters on some very good BCS schools. Some of those were due to head coach changes or problems like UConn's which was banned from tourney participation, but others were not. Don't know if it's still possible to pull up the list on their website, but it was enlightening.

Concerned with the rising numbers of transfers over the last few years, the NCAA has been studying the situation.

mae 8 years, 8 months ago

Good riddance indeed. KU just got played by giving away probably straight 4.0 summer scholarship and a long European vacation. ...wtheck did you do this summer?

Larry Smith 8 years, 8 months ago

You are what's wrong here. It was said that he was on his way back, but after a long conversation with coach Self he changed his mind. If you read between the lines, it looks to me like coach gave him a call and said "Hey, thanks for the work, but you are not gonna be more than a practice player for a while." Can you blame the kid for saying, thanks for the opportunity, but I think I can get some PT somewhere else.

mae 8 years, 8 months ago

So how much does a practice player cost? As opposed to someone actually trying for degree status... ....he should repay the gov like all the rest of us.

mae 8 years, 8 months ago

So, nobody payed his way? Nobody gave him a free trip to Europe and a semester at KU? Maybe you did that, but thousands of others didn't for sure.

rockchalk_dpu 8 years, 8 months ago

Mae, you have no idea how college athletics works, do you? The money spent on Doyle and all the other student athletes for scholarships and the like are paid for from the KU Athletic Inc. arm of the university that is separate from the rest of the school. All of that money comes from donations, TV rights and licensing deals that fund the operations of the athletic department.

No taxpayer money was spent on this kid, so your attempt to guilt him into repaying the university for his time here is absurd and misplaced. Figure out the facts before you make stupid statements. I've even attached the link to the 09-10 KAI Annual Report if you'd like to educate yourself further on where this money comes in and how it is spent.

KGphoto 8 years, 8 months ago

I wish I could hit multiple thumbs up. One big one will have to do. Thank you for shutting him up.

Ron Prichard 8 years, 8 months ago

I second KG's thoughts on your post. Bravo.

Martin Rosenblum 8 years, 8 months ago

Yeah. Winning in Switzerland just wasn't enough to overcome the crushing losses in France so he could hold his head high back in the USA. Leaving KU was the only way to put the ugliness behind!

REHawk 8 years, 8 months ago

Anyone who takes a close look at that picture of Milt, while studying his Chicago school stats, must realize that the lad has game. His conversation with Bill Self indicates to me that he was destined to be a seldom used role player on a team loaded with competitive talent these next few seasons. Milt and family gambled on a very big Div. 1 commitment which just didn't quite work out. Now he is forced to lower expectations or sign with another Div. 1 program where he will be forced to sit out a season, but might be a more essential piece of future impact. I wish him the very best...and commend his early summer desire to become a part of the very best program in the land. I hope to see him star in whichever program he eventually represents. And I hope this means that Ben, Andrew, Naadir, Rio, Evan or next year's incoming high school superstars are destined to be exceptional Jayhawks, all set and ready to bolster a backcourt determined to win more league titles.

Charles Shirley 8 years, 8 months ago

No one got played. It is ludicrous to assume that Milton changed schools from FIU to KU just so he could take one semester of summer school and get a free trip to Europe. That's crazy talk. Either Self was honest with him after Self evaluated his team's abilities and Milton's abilities or Milton figured out on his own that he wasn't going to get a whole lot of playing time--probably a bit of both. It is better that he make the decision now to transfer to a less competitive school and get more PT earlier in his career, as Self put it, than to stick around and sit on the bench, work hard, and find out two years from now that he might not earn all that much playing time next year or the year after that. The PT issue isn't just going to go away after one year. New recruits of Connor Frankamp's quality are going to be landing at KU for the next four years, so just waiting on the bench for one year was not necessarily going solve the PT issue. If he wants PT that early and that's his personal expectation then it is best for him to move on and let KU move on. Its better for him and its better for KU.

Andy Godwin 8 years, 8 months ago

There should be no hatred or ill will toward Milton. He is a good player and will become even better no matter where he eventually winds up. He came to KU and Lawrence, interacted with the players and coaches, found out where he was on the playing totem pole and decided it was best to leave now. Wish him well and show that KU fans are classy and not petty.

Ben Simonett 8 years, 8 months ago

"We expected him to be here, but he thought it was better for him to go to a place where he had a better opportunity to impact a program early in his career"

Directly from coach Self.

what I've been saying all along! A program like Kansas never should have been in the position to need to offer a scholarship to a kid like Doyle. It never works out for either party. Just ask Merv Lindsay.

Ben Simonett 8 years, 8 months ago

Self and his poor recruiting was the reason the "potentially unpleasant situation" came to be in the first place!

Now you want to thank him for making it not blow up in the programs face too badly?

Brak 8 years, 8 months ago

Yea because Self is such a terrible recruiter ALL WE DO IS WIN. You can go root for UK and have all the OADs you want but I'll take a Bill Self coached team anyday. Maybe if you weren't such a poor poster people might actually want to read the comments.

Ben Simonett 8 years, 8 months ago

I will take Bill Self's system over UK anyday as well. That doesn't change the fact that it was Selfs poor roster planning that caused the Merv Lindsay/Milton Doyle debacles.

You know its possible to like a coach and still criticize him when he makes mistakes right?

KGphoto 8 years, 8 months ago

Get lost bennyboob. Go root for Calimari, he's just your style.

Ben Simonett 8 years, 8 months ago

yes because not blindly accepting every recruit of questionable talent level the program brings in instantly means I want a UK like NBA feeder program. theres no middle ground at all!


Sam Constance 8 years, 8 months ago

You have unrealistic expectations, fool.

Ben Simonett 8 years, 8 months ago

Expecting one of the top programs in the history of college basketball to not have to go digging through the leftovers every summer desperately trying to fill roster spots is unrealistic?

What am i suppose to expect?

RJ King 8 years, 8 months ago

Exactly, Benny Bob. If only Self hadn't gone out and loaded up with EJ, Tharpe, McLemore, Rio, Frankamp, and Green, Doyle could've been our starting freshman PG, and we could've avoided this whole ugly mess.

Ben Simonett 8 years, 8 months ago

No if only Self would have landed a legit back court prospect last season instead of having to settle on an academically questionable Rio, and in turn hedge his bet with Doyle.

Then we could've avoided this whole ugly mess.

RJ King 8 years, 8 months ago

oops, and White. You're so right BB. More proof of another Self recruiting blunder.

Ben Simonett 8 years, 8 months ago

So your claiming recruiting a kid that transfers schools before the fall semester of his freshman year ISN'T a recruiting blunder?

RJ King 8 years, 8 months ago

I'm saying it's not any kind of a blunder at all. Without a crystal ball no one involved knows exactly what will happen. Those involved can only go on hope and an educated guess and are not powerful enough to control other people and affect their ultimate choices.

rob4lb 8 years, 8 months ago

Some of the arrogant and mean spirited comments are over the top but not surprising. This is truly a kid whose world has been spinning off its axis the last few months. If the situation is not right, it is best to change it now rather than later.

RockChalk26 8 years, 8 months ago

Doyle the first OAD since Selby. (One Eurotrip and done)

Ron Franklin 8 years, 8 months ago

“He wants to be able to develop as a player, learn that team’s program, have room to grow and get his degree.”

Kansas was the perfect place to do that, Mrs. Green.

COJHawk 8 years, 8 months ago

on a different note...

maybe i'm late to the party on this one, but anyone else see the ESPN 30 for 30 promo for what's coming in october?...

should be sweet. RCJHGKU!

Lance Hobson 8 years, 8 months ago

Aside from the ridiculous title and standard Roger and Me documentary schtick it looks pretty awesome.

nuleafjhawk 8 years, 8 months ago

I believe Uncle Milty would still be with us if Sadler had not joined the staff.

MD wanted to be called " Doc ". Doc was already taken.

Nobody here could come up with a cool enough nickname to keep him in Lawrence.

Blame it on Sadler first, the fans second.

Yes, I'm joking.

John Boyle 8 years, 8 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

JHAWKSWAG 8 years, 8 months ago

worst list I've ever seen...not funny whatsoever

John Boyle 8 years, 8 months ago

what was the violation? There was no profanity. Some people might not have found it funny but it was just in jest. I don't believe it was overly negative. I actually like Milton Doyle and wish him the best wherever he goes. He deserves to be happy and to enjoy the college experience even if it is at a school you or I do not like.

dylans 8 years, 8 months ago

Unnecessary censorship is @#! hilarious.

flyingfinn 8 years, 8 months ago

Another indication how great a leader coach Self is. Many people in leadership positions find it hard to give people an honest eveluation of their abilities and tend to sugar coat things but a true leader acts as Coach Self did in this instance with words that in the long run will benefit the individual. Good luck Milt, but believe you would have been better off staying under a great leader's tutelage.

Ron Prichard 8 years, 8 months ago

I'm totally blown away by all the negativity on here. We are all Jayhawk fans to varying degrees. Anytime an athlete leaves Kansas, some people immediately turn into these angry, tunnel-vision like judges decrying the kid's decision and motives. It wasn't the right fit, and it happens. There is absolutely a 0% chance Doyle decided to come to Kansas with a plan of leaving at the end of the summer. There is also no chance Self offered him a scholarship knowing or anticipating he would decide to leave so quickly. When the scholarship was offered and accepted, both sides thought it would be beneficial and Doyle would contribute at KU. After--yes, AFTER--Doyle arrived at Kansas and played with the rest of the team, it became apparent he just wasn't ready to contribute and that he might not even be able to contribute after sitting out a year or after learning from HCBS given the recruits we have coming in. Then, and only then, did Doyle and Self talk and decide that KU wasn't the place for him. The kid is 18 years old. We need to cut him a little slack. I would bet half of the negative posters on here were either still living at home or extremely homesick their first year in college, and none of us were wrestling with our dream of playing basketball in college.

On another note, for all of those people upset that Doyle got to take a free trip to Europe before leaving the program, consider that in almost every other year when KU doesn't get to travel overseas and have the 10 early practices, Doyle wouldn't have had this conversation with Self and found out his status until well into the fall semester. The way I see it, the trip to Europe was a fortuitous event for both KU and Doyle.

Good luck to you Mr. Doyle. I hope you find success and what makes you happy. Although I may never consider you a full-fledged Jayhawk, I am also greatful and proud you thought enough of KU to make it your first choice.

Robert Brown 8 years, 8 months ago

We have a group of fans that exhibit entitled arrogance and many regularly post on this board. I think every fan base has a group like this, but the more succesful the program, the higher the arrogance.

The outsider's perception of KU athletics is: 'joke of a football program who used to have that real fat coach; great basketball program that often gets upset by a less team in the NCAA tournament".

Ben Simonett 8 years, 8 months ago

"There is also no chance Self offered him a scholarship knowing or anticipating he would decide to leave so quickly. When the scholarship was offered and accepted, both sides thought it would be beneficial and Doyle would contribute at KU"


the scholarship offer to Doyle was a desperation insurance move on Self's part. Just like Merv Lindsay. Self knew what he was getting in Doyle and it wasn't a player guaranteed to contribute at a program like KU

Ron Prichard 8 years, 8 months ago

Whether or not Self thought Doyle would redshirt, be an instant starter, or was just insurance, he thought highly enough of him to offer a scholarship. When Doyle accepted that scholarship, both Self and Doyle had to be under the impression that Doyle, whether receiving significant playing time or not, would be a member of this team for the forseeable future. At the very least, Self had to believe Doyle would have been here through his freshman year. So if you actually read my post for the point I was making, it was that there was 0% chance that either Coach Self or Doyle entered into the scholarship agreement with the belief or understanding that Doyle would leave so quickly. It was only AFTER Doyle practiced and played in Europe that it became clear to him that KU might not be the best fit for him. So ragging him for "using Kansas for a free trip to Europe" is totally misplaced.

Ben Simonett 8 years, 8 months ago

Fair point.

I'm sure Self expected Doyle to be here at least a year. That was definetly a surprise.

Curtis Stutz 8 years, 8 months ago

All I know is Milton Doyle dreamed of playing at the University of Kansas and for a couple weeks he was able to. For whatever reason, probably playing time more than anything, he decided it would be better to take his talents to another program. Best of luck to him.

Anyone else wonder what Self is thinking on the extra scholarship? I guess it must still be possible to pick up a player from the class of 2012, but I don't know that it would seem wise with the solid depth KU is already showing for this year and the potential out there for an excellent recruit next year. I imagine he wants to surprise Wesley with the schollie at some point or would he consider offering it to a different walk-on that might need it more?

It seems like KU is looking at anywhere from an 8-11 man rotation this year. Wonder if Self is thinking about running a little more press defensively with the additional depth this year and what should be a much more balanced team. If BMac has the defensive skills HCBS has touted to go with EJ, throw TRel's quick feet and hands, KYo and Traylor's energy, the length of Withey, freshman exuberance in White, Ellis and Peters, could put a lot of pressure on the other team. You know these guys can finish transition baskets off.

Kevin John 8 years, 8 months ago

He(Doyle) will end up at SDSU or New Mexico St. or go to Wazzu!!!

HawkKlaw 8 years, 8 months ago

Geez. I hope potential future Jayhawks don't read these boards. How embarrassing and pitiful it is to see all of these knee-jerk reactions to a kid who changed his mind on where to play ball. How many of us transferred at some point in our college career? I know I did. Twice. College is not exactly the easiest point in any humans life. Milt is a young guy that wants to be on the court as opposed to on the bench. No hard feelings. Follow your dreams, young man!

gchawk 8 years, 8 months ago

My thoughts exactly. Unfortunately, they do read these threads, I just hope they realize that a lot of the negative threads are not indicative of the majority of Jayhawk fans, and quite a few are actually from the "enemy camps" and are just trying to create dissension.

Jack Wilson 8 years, 8 months ago

May we all agree that this thread is Milton Doyle closure?

I probably posted more words about the Milton Doylegasms in early June than any other topic, save Mr. Morningstar. I feel the need to move on. There is need for closure.

I think one of my main take aways from reading everyone's posts in early June when this all went down was simply how most folks here really want to support their team and their coach, and anything that is a bit of a downer at the time is not met with much enthusiasm. I get that, and admire folks that are that fiercely loyal. Seeing things through crimson and blue colored glasses is a nice way to live life, albeit sometimes not the most objective way.

On the flip side, that enthusiasm turns to disdain when the same kid leaves. He's an 18 year old that just got some bad advice -- but he got that advice for all the right reasons. It was the strong allure of the Kansas Jayhawks. The best basketball program at any level in the world. It is hard to turn down. But as most of us know here, the bad advice he received was to come here in the first place. Then again, I bet we've all given bad advice before. It happens.

One poster had noted that at least he leaves now, and we don't waste further resources and efforts on the young man, particularly if he would end up leaving at the end of the season. Brilliant. The business side says that the timing is good for KU.

Milt is a player. He's not a scrub. He wants to play and probably deserves some P.T. at the D-1 level his freshman season. Just not here. It is really this .. does a kid like Milt want to come in, pay his dues, learn, possibly sit/redshirt for the better part of three seasons, to possibly earn P.T. his junior and senior seasons? That's a hard pill to swallow for some.

And top guys are coming in all the time. As much as we think many of these recruits see the entire picture, or comprehend the entire picture, they don't. And remember .. Milt is a player. He is likely arrogant about his game. Likely the exact kind of dude you want on your team. He probably felt that he could earn his P.T. now ... because he'd always done it. Then reality hit.

He then made the best choice for him at a time that causes the least amount of disruption for all. It might have been a choice made for him at the end of this season, anyway. If the guy finds a soft landing spot, and we don't end up needing the Doyle insurance policy that Self purchased in early June, then all's well that ends well for all involved.


Curtis Stutz 8 years, 8 months ago

I'd say solid post too except I don't see how it will necessarily have been bad for him to have spent the time he did at KU working with these coaches and players. Like you said, all's well that ends well for all involved. Sounds like he's a good kid, probably came in hungry and helped push others to play better while he was at KU. I'm sure he learned a lot and fulfilled a dream he had of playing in a KU uniform. No reason for anyone to be upset.

jaybate 8 years, 8 months ago

"jaybate's Hypothetical Digest of the Milton Doyle Episode"

Self saw some potential in Milton, and Self wanted to do right by the old Chicago high school coach that asked Self to take Milton on, after Zeke got the hook at FIU and Milton was adrift.

Self made Milton and Self's own son roomates; that indicates a significant committment on Self's part to steer Milton straight and for the long term.

Milton played sparingly in exhibition games.

Milton visited home before coming back to start the fall semester.

Milton learned from his mom that she was getting a lot of calls from schools with a lot more PT to offer next season, after a year of sitting, than Milton might get after sitting this season at KU.

Milton and his mom decided Bill Self had been a straight shooter with them. They decided to have Milton call Coach Self and ask Self to forecast Milton's role the next two seasons.

Self said he would likely play sparingly, but that he thought he would contribute his junior or senior years. He also thought it would be best if he red shirted to ensure that he would graduate.

Milton said he thought it would be best for him to play sooner rather than later. He said some schools still had some scholarships and wanted to sign him.

Self said okay, but maybe he should take a day or two to think it over.

Milton decided and came down to Lawrence to pack his things.

Mom somehow got connected with the Chicago hoops blogger and gave the word Milton was leaving KU to consider other schools.

The story broke before Self expected it to.

When Self was asked to comment, he declined, because he had said he would give Milton a couple days to be certain.

There was probably another conversation. The answer was yes, he had packed and left.

Self waited the agreed upon time.

Self released the above announcement emphasizing it was all Doyle's decision.

Self probably did want Doyle to come back, but on the other hand, Self probably knew it was possible that he might land enough new talent that it might happen that Doyle would become expendable after this season. It was a possibility, not a probability. Injuries happen. Guys you think will sign don't necessarily sign. Guys you think will stay jump early. Guys you think are coachable sometimes are not. And so on. Milton was "good depth", with, or without Anrio Adams. He put him with his own son to begin the process not just of developing him as a player, but of giving him a college education, of opening him up to the world.

jaybate 8 years, 8 months ago

Milton and Milton's mom understood this. But they also understood that Milton wanted to play ball. There were still schools out there with scholies. KU and Self got him through the clearing house process. That increased his market value as a guy who could transfer and sit yet be sure to be eligible. Self wanting Milt increased Milton's attractiveness to other coaches at other schools. Getting a KU transfer means one is getting at least "good depth," and maybe a starter. And a KU transfer does not seem like a tramp athlete. KU and Bill Self being the last thing on your resume looks better than Zeke and FIU.

Milton took a chance on KU, enhanced himself and transferred.

Self took a chance on Milton, and helped him out. Self got some "good depth," then lost it. But Self did this for an old friend, a high school coach in Chicago, a guy who will always have another good prospect every year or so to introduce to Self.

Really, if Milt signs with a program trying to do it the right way, everyone won.

And in a worst case scenario, where injuries make us wish we had Milton, well, Evan Manning showed about as much as Milton did, and there are worse things than having to rely on a Manning.

Rock Chalk!

(Note: All of the above is hypothetical speculation after watching and reading from afar. I have no insider information.)

Alohahawk 8 years, 8 months ago

Hard to argue against your speculations. However, just one point to ponder, and this would entail doing it "the right way": If any contacting was made by other schools (to Milt's mom or directly to him), before Milt announced his decision to transfer, it would be against NCAA rules to do so. Once a recruit has signed a LOI or any type of agreement to play (any sport) with a school, any contact to attempt to recruit him away from that school is considered illegal by the NCAA. That is something rumored to have happened when Scott Drew attempted to "steal" a player from another Division I program about two years ago. Pretty much the same thing happened when Jones publicly announced his intentions to play at Washington, was immediately contacted by Cal Lie Pari, and subsequently re-announced that he'd attend Kenstinky instead. That sudden change of plans still makes me question what legal agreement could possibly alter a recruit's decision so quickly, while making himself look like a true jacka** in the public's eye.

jaybate 8 years, 8 months ago


I think you raise the $64k issue. I chose not to raise it, because Self does not seem to feel bad about the situation. Someone might argue a case of poaching. But I suspect Self genuinely wanted to give Doyle a break, either at KU, or elsewhere. The NCAA may view it differently, but even the NCAA should see some extenuating circumstance here. Zeke seems to be able to make anyone's life problematic. If Self doesn't cry foul, it seems a victimless crime. I just hope he goes to one of the right way schools, but who knows? He was already at one.

Tony Bandle 8 years, 8 months ago

All those in favor of rememberring Morningstar as a star say," Aye."

All those in favor of remembering Morningstar as a pain in the rear say "Aye".

That settles it,......the ayes have it!!

jgkojak 8 years, 8 months ago

I think he was headed for a red-shirt here, and even then it appeared he would not see any significant game time for 3 years.

If he was gonna sit a year by transferring anyway, he can go to some program where he'd play significant minutes immediately.

Really a no-brainer - especially given his past performance - if he can be a 2-3 year starter somewhere, he has a chance to go to Europe to make some $$$ professionally.

ironhead80 8 years, 8 months ago

MD was not KU BBALL material, He is no longer here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lance Hobson 8 years, 8 months ago

I find this a very sad story. Milt was a diamond in the rough and we were so excited to have him at KU for a long time. I saw him as that fifth-year senior who hits the key shots and guides an inexperienced but talented bunch to the title someday. His mother was so excited when he signed, and so was Isiah Thomas. I thought this was going to be a special journey with him that would find a nice place in KU history. He looked good in the video we saw of the team practicing, I wish he and Self worked harder to make this work.

Brad Boline 8 years, 8 months ago

Guys like Milton need KU more than KU needs them. Patience is a virtue, could have had some exciting times. Oh well his lost.

jaybate 8 years, 8 months ago

To me it distills to this:

a) sit a year (and maybe red shirt another year) at KU and face stiff incoming competition even after doing it; versus

b) sit a year and face lesser incoming competition.

The correct answer is probably b, if you are on the bubble.

The correct answer is probably a, if you are a really talented player, like EJ, or Travis, who will for sure get their junior/senior year times to shine.

The key here seems to be that Naadir Tharpe, a slightly shaky three star, seems to be able to stay ahead of Milt; this suggests that Self could bring in a 4, or 5 star next season that could play ahead of Milt, and maybe ahead of Naadir, though less likely in the case of Naadir, because Self will have a lot of sunk costs in him by then.

Commenting has been disabled for this item.