Thursday, April 19, 2012

South Carolina transfer has KU on his list


Damontre Harris, a 6-foot-9 sophomore who has announced plans to transfer from the University of South Carolina, has Kansas University on his list of schools, the Fayetteville (N.C.) Observer reports.

Harris averaged 6.8 points, 5.5 rebounds and 2.3 blocks a game last season and was named to the SEC all-defensive team. He was’s No. 64-rated player in the Class of 2010. He’s also considering Florida and others. Wake Forest and Maryland were on his final list of schools in high school.

Ellis honored: KU signee Perry Ellis, a 6-8 senior forward from Wichita Heights, has been named second-team All-America by USA Today. First team: Nerlens Noel, Jabari Parker, Kyle Anderson, Shabazz Muhammad and Marcus Smart. Parker, a 6-8 junior from Chicago’s Simeon High, has KU on his list.


Andy Hess 4 years ago

Ditto. Why on earth would we take another big (let alone THIS guy) when we're so loaded with bigs right now? If anything we need a PG.

Jeff Smith 4 years ago

This guy has major upside and is a defensive presence that we will need when Withey graduates. We are not loaded with bigs and this guy is a great fit 2 years from now. Bill Self wants him and so do I.

niemoth 4 years ago

I'd take this guy with those numbers and 2 years of college playing time over all these bigs we have with no college experience. I like Ellis, but am just unsure of Traylor, Peters, Lucas. Although Traylor does have a year of practice with KU. If we don't get Parker, I'd still take this guy.

ksyank 4 years ago

If he is 6'9", and that is a big IF...he is not a defensive presence.

Jeff Smith 4 years ago

Read the article konkey...and maybe watch basketball outside of the big 12. He had a couple double doubles against decent teams. Was on his way to a good game against Kentucky but got in foul trouble played like 20 minutes had 10 points. Had 6 games with 5 or more blocks. I think he would be big off the bench in 2013

ahpersecoachingexperience 4 years ago

And he'd have to sit a year. Save the scholarship for a 2013 freshman.

Eric Dawson 4 years ago

Inclined to agree, but apparently KU is interested. Kansas has asked about him according to this article.

Joe Baker 4 years ago

KU simply inquired. He's leaving under strained circumstances. I think you keep the option open and if necessary, you pursue. Let's see what Parker does, then look closer at this kid. Unfortunately, you have to decide now because he will have to sit (?) where he goes. So, if you want him, you have to allow for that sit out.

He seems a little dramatic and seems to have a hair trigger attitude. Why didn't we go after him initially? Why weren't we on his list during his high school recruiting process?

Mike Bratisax 4 years ago

Good advise truehawk93...always keep your option open. And that also goes for the Arizona pg who is transferring.

Ben Kane 4 years ago

i have no problem leaving these moves in Self's hands, i think he knows what he's doing. no one wanted Withey either.

Andy Hess 4 years ago

Completely wrong. Quite a few people, myself included, wanted us to get Withey because he was really highly rated out of high school and we missed on getting him initially out of HS.

kuilander 4 years ago

NOT completely wrong ... there were loads of people on here and the other boards expressing displeasure over getting withey.

Scott Bonnet 4 years ago

What exactly did the "Merv Experiment" cost us? We had another practice player. He's going away. It's not like we lost out on someone better because we signed him. Novel concept, think before you post.

ahpersecoachingexperience 4 years ago

What about a young man that could have settled in nicely at a school and been on his way to a good college career and a diploma, maybe in an area close to friends and family? Now he will be forced to find another school, move again, sit out a year, amongst other things.

But hey, who cares about this young man. As long as it doesn't cost "us" anything.

buckleyhawk 4 years ago

There seems to be an implication there that Self or whomever tricked Merv into coming to KU. It's fairly well documented that Self does not promise anyone playing time; and all Merv had to do was look at the roster and say "I'm probably not playing this year".

I highly doubt he didn't know what he was getting into; like most 18-year-olds he was probably too over-confident which caused "over-"disappointment.

You probably need to save the "What about the kids?" argument for another day.

Curtis Stutz 4 years ago

Ya I'm sure Merv hates the fact that he got to be part of a team that went to the National Championship game, practice with some of the best, get coached by the best, live the life of a Kansas Jayhawk. That sounds pretty detrimental to him in the long run.

JHawk74 4 years ago

Merv choose to leave. He wasn't forced out. Merv could play somewhere next year if he would transfer to a JUCO, Division II, Division III or NAIA school. Merv obviously wanted 'more playing time' than he wanted to be a reserve/practice player for a Top 5 program in the country. I wish Merv the best of luck and I hope he finds the playing time he deserves at another school.

addlime 4 years ago

No way to know at the beginning of the season whether you would be talking about a Merv experiment, or a Justin experiment, or a Young experiment. These guys come on to the team and try and develop and compete. For some it works out here with this team and this system, and for some it doesn't, and they try to move on and find a place that will.

Philip Bowman 4 years ago

You think? That's a novel idea, relying on the basketball coach. You poster who question his decisions should apply for the job since you know so much more than HCBC.

Jeff Kilgore 4 years ago

Typically I entertain criticism, but the criticism leveled at Self seems unfair to me. Merv made the only basketball decision he could make. So did Self.

Alex Berger 4 years ago

I think the perk about this guy is that it would help more evenly distribute the scholarships over four years. Right now we have 10 out of 13 scholarships in our 2012 and 2013 classes combined.

ahpersecoachingexperience 4 years ago

Bottom line, accepting transfer players says we are desperate while losing transfers says something ain't right. In the words of the jersey shore "it's just not a good look for us".

brooksmd 4 years ago

I don't think accepting a player who averaged 29 minutes/game, shot .550 from the field and .800 from the ft line is a sign of desperation or not looking good. Further more, unlike some coaches who do, I don't believe HCBS paints a rosy picture for any recruit by promising playing time. I hate to see any kid leave the program. Some will ride the pine hoping their day will come. Merv may have decided that PT was going to be scarce and for him a transfer may get him that PT. It's obvious, contrary to what some may think, HCBS plays those who work hard and produce. Count me as one who believes in the madness of HCBS.

Sam Finocchiaro 4 years ago

I agree. And to add to that. He played for South Carolina, a team that only scored 61.4 points a game. This guy could be special if he were to come the KU. That's not saying he will, or he should, its just saying that I see some potential talent in him. He wouldn't be a player that would make the NBA. But I think in his senior year he could see some decent playing time, (I say decent because by this time I think Perry Ellis will be spotlight on the court) and it would be a risk, but we have to fill out that scholarship list somehow. Right?

JHawk74 4 years ago

Would you rather we get a Freshman that plays 1 year and transfers to the NBA? Transfers bring stability to the program. They are looking for a second chance and usually have something to prove. Wasn't Withey a great Transfer? Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year! So if we get a transfer PG would you be happy? We are losing Withey after next year we need to replace him with someone, that someone could be Harris if he chooses to be a Jayhawk.

Martin Shupert 4 years ago

Still, it's kind of funny that a player from NCU would want to come "WAY OUT THERE". I hope more than a few of your remember Roy's quote when he tried to unsubtly take along his recruit as he walked out the door here.

Martin Shupert 4 years ago

Oops... SC... not NC... Did I do that?

Cmill1221 4 years ago

If we don't get our friend on Monday, then I would love to have him. Depth down low is always a good thing! Like in 08 rotating in 4 solid big men. HCBS did that at Illinois as well, when he beat us. He just had so many big men he kept bringing in off the bench. The term "foul trouble" never existed.

ahpersecoachingexperience 4 years ago

If our football team is becoming "Quarterback U" or hoops team is becoming "Transfer U"

ohjayhawk 4 years ago

There are actually 3 D1 transfers on the roster right now (Withey, Young, Wesley). I am not going to question Coach Self's methods, however. 1 National Championship, 1 National Runner-Up, 3 Elite Eights, and 8 straight Conference Championships tells me he more than knows what he is doing!

Mike Bratisax 4 years ago

Nothing like a little hyperbole to elicit responses. What about JUCO players? Or is that also desperate?

trustyourSelf 4 years ago

I think it would be good to get him. Especially since he would have to sit out a year anyway (right?) The year after when Withey and Young are gone we may find him valuable.

okiedave 4 years ago

I agree. Bring him in the family

Jonathan Andrews 4 years ago

I for one feel that he would be a great addition. USC was a mess this year, but he proved he can be a defensive juggernaut. I could see Damontre turning into a Sean Williams or even Ekpe Udoh type of presence in the paint. Young and perhaps Wesley will be gone after next year, MAYBE even Ellis if the NBA scouts like him enough. Peters and Lucas are going to be good rotation guys for us, but I'm not sure either will be ready for monster minutes in their sophomore years. And neither is a shot-blocker, which is Harris' calling card.

I agree that it would be preferable to have a blue-chip 2013 prospect. Basically, I see Harris as a great fallback option to Chris Walker. But to say we just plain shouldn't pursue him is short-sighted. HCBS and company know what they're doing.

P.S. I can't wait for the Josiah Turner updates!

nuleafjhawk 4 years ago

I agree, crooner. A 6' 9" dude that makes the All-Defensive Team (even if it is the SEC) sounds pretty interesting to me. I think we all know how important a great defense is.

baldwinjhawk 4 years ago

Ellis isn't a one and done. Not because he's not good enough, but because he and his parents have stated numerous times that he wants his degree. I think he's a national merit scholar.

Mike Bratisax 4 years ago

I remember Julian Wright wanted his degree and was in position to get it in 3 years... Hard to turn that type of money down although I'm willing to bet he regrets that decision now.

I remember him celebrating w/the 2008 team and wondered how he felt then about leaving.

He was wearing a nice suit if I remember correctly.

jaybate 4 years ago

USC team is bailing out on playing for Martin, so Harris wants to too. Harris probably wants to transfer to NCSU, where his old assistant coach that recruited him to USC now is. The USC AD thinks the old assistant tampered with Harris. The USC AD says Harris can transfer anywhere but NCSU. Harris high school is running interference for Harris. Says Martin does not care where Harris goes. Says AD is upset with tampering by NCSU assistant. Messy situation.

Harris can defend, board and block. No offense. Slender 6-9 and 214. But Defensive POY in SEC. Of course we would take him. Build him up a year, then play him a year. Killer practice player.

KU connection? Joe probably recruited him back in high school. Florida did too. Norm saw him last season. Knows kid is a talent. KU wants a presence in Carolinas. Contacting him is free PR.

Almost no chance we get him.

He apparently wants to go to NCSU to reunite with former asst coach and stay near home.

JayHawkFanToo 4 years ago

"Harris can defend, board and block. No offense. Slender 6-9 and 214. But Defensive POY in SEC. Of course we would take him...."

Silly me, all this time I was under the impression that the "Unibrow" was the SEC POY.

jaybate 4 years ago

The operative word here, sillyyou, is "Defensive."

Trust your jaybate. :-)

Krohnutz 4 years ago

With that said, member of the all-defensive team and a coach that loves his defense...

Yeah, we'd take him if it can be done.

JayHawkFanToo 4 years ago

If you read the link I provided, it indicates that:

"Davis, who racked up conference awards for his regular‐season performance, including SEC Player of the Year, SEC Freshman of the Year, SEC Defensive Player of the Year and a first‐team All-SEC selection..." . I prefer to trust my Self.

jaybate 4 years ago

Ah, I am wrong.

My apologies.

Was anything else in my post in error? :-)

Danny Hernandez 4 years ago

IF HCBS wants him, then so do I. And if he doesn't, then neither do I!

Bill Self won't be listening to us and thank goodness he doesn't. None of us know crap and if one of us did, that person would be the coach

jaybate 4 years ago

I always wonder why board rats make the sort of post you just did. Why read posts, if they mean nothing to you. What an odd thing to do?

Also, these sorts of posts are usually premised falsely. No one here that I have ever read has written that they know more than Self. What an odd thing for you to presume!

If it is not too much trouble, explain why you do this. I actually want to know.

It fascinates me.

KGphoto 4 years ago

But this is a board of opinions, and to say none of us know crap is far more condescending than jb's post. I'm a little curious as to why he bothers reading here as well, if we have nothing to offer.

According to him, every basketball story could be written with the same exact reaction/posts. "It is Self's will."


I get it. Self is pretty good. I trust him too. But I can still hope he does, or does not recruit this guy can't I?

nuleafjhawk 4 years ago

The " none of us know crap " thing is especially disconcerting and unfair to ahperse.

He is widely known as the world's foremost authority on crap, and for anyone to say otherwise - well, they are just full of crap.


jaybate 4 years ago


(Note: I rather enjoy your posts, so please take this response in the playful way it is intended.)

Is it possible you are being disingenuous? And projecting it? :-)

I am only condescending, when someone condescends to me, as you have done; ergo my condescending tone to you. :-)

At certain times, tit-for-tat is a valuable teaching tool; this is one of those times.

Next, I am congenitally unable to be disingenuous. Any disingenuous boss I ever had years ago would confirm this. :-)

Seeing through disingenuous persons can be a hobby and a survival skill, don't you agree?

Regardless, I can be wrong occasionally? And, oh, yes, yes, yes, I can be right often. Why, I can even think I am right when I am wrong. And once in a blue moon I can even be right, when it appears I am wrong. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, and I do like a good joke and can take the heat as well as dish it.

But disingenuous? Nope, that's not one of my vices.

Know thy self. My junior high principal gave me a card with this wisdom of the Greeks i think it was. It helps in every encounter with a high handed oligarch, a high handed arch bishop, a high handed arch druid, a historian on the university dole writing only what he can keep tenure with, or any number of paid lackeys of private oligarchy working in all walks of careers. Such persons are so certain of themselves, due to their constant nipple subsidy for doing as bidden, that they are almost always apt to start out with an unproven smear like "disingenuous," or "condescending," before grinding the ax of their apologist's point of view. In order to wade through the smears, it helps to know thy self, don't you agree? :-)

So: disingenuous? Not part of my make up. WSIWYG.

Now, to your rationalization of what DannyBoy, or whatever his alias was, wrote. Truth now: there is not even a hint of evidence in what the alias wrote to support your inference. Not one teensy, weeny word. You just made your imputation up out of your own feelings, unless you are him, in which case, you are too weird for me to make any sense of at all. :-)

But, assuming you are not DannyBoy, to make a point, if I were to approach his words with the same process of arbitrary imputing of meaning to them that you did, I would be permitted sufficient latitude to say something like, "What he really meant by his hyperbole was that all of us were toad-sacrificing Satanists too busy with eviscerating toads to have had the time to learn more about basketball than Bill Self has."

Do you see the problem of your rhetorical and logical approach? It permits all manner of imputed interpretations of his meaning, not just yours.

So: I am afraid I, at least, am bound by his words in this case, anyway.

jaybate 4 years ago

I know many people find interstate highways boring, but I just endlessly love the bridges over them. They are such clean, elegant forms. And unlike so many human structures, the really are kind of organic in their way with the land forms they connect. They are the best of American sculpture in my opinion and they are never even talked about that way. The nicest thing anyone will ever say is that this one is iconic, or that one won an award. But goddamnit, I love all of the anonymously designed interstate over passes just as much as I love all of those magnificent green bridges on the Oregon coastal route, or the Golden Gate. They are all beautiful and elegant to their functions. I don't believe we Americans are always Romans in analogy, but in water projects and bridges we sure are. And American engineer could easily have built Pont d'Gard.

And if you're an electrical engineer, printed circuits are works of art as well. Ironically, the only inelegant engineers we have these days are software engineers and that's a shame, because software engineers were once the most elegant of engineers and wrote the most beautiful programs, before the hard drives and memories got so big and programs just became warehouses of big ungainly, inelegant routines. Ah, but you know all of that.

So here's to a marvelous disagreement with you.

jaybate 4 years ago

And I swear on a stack of worm-eaten Bodhi Tree lumber that your interpretation of his post has no more validity than this imputation of mine about the toad-sacrificing. Mine is just more far-fetched than yours is, as I have intentionally exaggerated to please and to teach.

But jaybate, you say, "Yes, maybe I reasoned fallaciously and with an absence of any evidence, but, still, my imputation of your feeling stands. You did not like his point!"

Frankly, and I can speak with absolute authority on this point, you are wrong again. I did not dislike his point. Na, na, na, na-na, na. I get to know what I felt and you don't. :-)

The truth is his post partly bewildered me and triggered a sense of absurdity.

Why post something, when the assumption it is premised on is patently false?

I repeat, I have never read one post by anyone on this site in the now considerable number of years I have been reading and posting that said, "I know more than Bill Self." Never.

Well, let me qualify that. Someone above, or below, amused me by saying tongue in cheek that he/she knew more than Bill Self. I thought that was wonderful.

But DannyBoy was not saying anything tongue in cheek, as far as I could "impute" based on "evidence."

Further, even if Danny Boy posts subsequently and writes that he meant exactly what you imputed, or exactly what I imputed, we are still left with the fact that my initial response was based solely on what he in fact did post. (And I didn't feel bad about it, either!)

So: if he were to change his post, why, again, I would just ask, "well, why in the hell didn't you say what you meant?"

Using a rhetoric of hyperbole is no excuse for misleading readers about what one actually means. And dang it, I would have been mislead in this eventuality, even if AtlJayhawk were to keep mis-imputing my feelings. :-)

And, hypothetically, what if DannyBoy comes out from behind a Bodhi tree and says, "Well, yes, jaybate, is right, I have been behind that tree eviscerating toads, while muttering evil incantations, and I have been too busy doing it to learn more than Coach Self, and well, I was using hyperbole because I am tired of all of these toad sacrificers, like me, pretending to know more than Coach Self?"

What then will you impute, AtlJaybird?

That I dislike his point?

Let me strike preemptively here.

I would be puzzled and filled with a sense of absurdity at such a response by Danny Boy.

And, yes, I would be repulsed by his toad sacrificing, and I would call the SPCA, and yet defend his right to say his occult incantations without hurting the toads (or any living thing, or anyone else), based on the right to religious freedom under the Constitution, assuming he is a U.S. Citizen. (Note: if he weren't a US citizen, I might ask to see his green card.) :-)

Was this condescending enough for you? :-)

I am not being disingenuous here.

Poking a bit of fun, yes, but not disingenuous.

jaybate 4 years ago

If you and I don't know crap, how can we know more than Self, unless Self doesn't know crap?

But we know DannyBoy did not say Self did not know crap, ergo "all (or if you prefer some) think they know more than Coach Self" is a valid inference from what he said, is it not?

What I am inferring is consistent with his assertion and any other assertion I can think of that contradicts my inference would contradict his assertion. So: I've got to think I inferring arbitrarily, but rather logically, and in about the only way that does not refute what he did say.

Inference properly premised and operated is valid and permitted, right?

But you are a hell of a good sport and I love engineers, so, if you would have just told me you were an engineer to begin with, then I would have known to make an allowance in your case. :-)

Engineers are some of my greatest heroes and I count two among my best friends.

I never met a bridge (that stayed up) that I needed and used, that I did note love and find beautiful.

I've argued this point with many artists, art critics and art historians over the years.

How is it that engineers always make beautiful bridges, but artists often don't make beautiful art, and architects often don't make beautiful buildings?

I've never seen an ugly bridge on an interstate highway outside of a city.

And even most city bridges are beautiful things.

I only recall a few really ugly road structures. Elevated interstates through cities often suck in terms of how they chop up the integrity of a neighborhood, but the bridges are actually elegant and beautiful often times. And the only really, really ugly road structure I ever saw was the Embarcadero freeway around the San Francisco water front before the earth quake undid what man could not undo.

jaybate 4 years ago

I know many people find interstate highways boring, but I just endlessly love the bridges over them. They are such clean, elegant forms. And unlike so many human structures, the really are kind of organic in their way with the land forms they connect. They are the best of American sculpture in my opinion and they are never even talked about that way. The nicest thing anyone will ever say is that this one is iconic, or that one won an award. But goddamnit, I love all of the anonymously designed interstate over passes just as much as I love all of those magnificent green bridges on the Oregon coastal route, or the Golden Gate. They are all beautiful and elegant to their functions. I don't believe we Americans are always Romans in analogy, but in water projects and bridges we sure are. And American engineer could easily have built Pont d'Gard.

And if you're an electrical engineer, printed circuits are works of art as well. Ironically, the only inelegant engineers we have these days are software engineers and that's a shame, because software engineers were once the most elegant of engineers and wrote the most beautiful programs, before the hard drives and memories got so big and programs just became warehouses of big ungainly, inelegant routines. Ah, but you know all of that.

So here's to a marvelous disagreement with you.

jaybate 4 years ago

I know many people find interstate highways boring, but I just endlessly love the bridges over them. They are such clean, elegant forms. And unlike so many human structures, the really are kind of organic in their way with the land forms they connect. They are the best of American sculpture in my opinion and they are never even talked about that way. The nicest thing anyone will ever say is that this one is iconic, or that one won an award. But goddamnit, I love all of the anonymously designed interstate over passes just as much as I love all of those magnificent green bridges on the Oregon coastal route, or the Golden Gate. They are all beautiful and elegant to their functions. I don't believe we Americans are always Romans in analogy, but in water projects and bridges we sure are. And American engineer could easily have built Pont d'Gard.

And if you're an electrical engineer, printed circuits are works of art as well. Ironically, the only inelegant engineers we have these days are software engineers and that's a shame, because software engineers were once the most elegant of engineers and wrote the most beautiful programs, before the hard drives and memories got so big and programs just became warehouses of big ungainly, inelegant routines. Ah, but you know all of that.

So here's to a marvelous disagreement with you

tis4tim 4 years ago

Okay, I'll be the first to say it: I do know more than Bill Self ... about '80s music and about being me. And I can safely say that if being the head coach of a college basketball team required a generous knowledge of Culture Club trivia, I would be angling for his job even as I type this.

Jack Wilson 4 years ago

Jaybate -- +1. I also want to know why folks do this. I tend to think it is because they have no real opinions of their own, can't debate a subject with any competence, and find refuge in simply saying other folks are idiots. It's about all they have. Perhaps that's harsh, though.

Dan Pawlowski 4 years ago

I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance. -Socrates

I'm too sexy for my shirt. -Right Said Fred.

jaybate 4 years ago

Socrates was lucky his tablets were among what little survived from that era.

He was really not a very good philosopher.

And that quote you posted was either one of his most false, or most disingenuous, and I have never been able to do decide which.

I have always respected The Cynics more than the Socratic chain. The Cynics were much less full of hooey. People always forget how much hooey there was in the Socratic line of thinkers.

And with any luck, as Thera is unearthed over the next century or two, we will find some better philosophers than the ultimately botched line of Greeks that started with the street poser Socrates, followed by the proto fascist and metaphysical Plato, thence to Aristotle, who was a respectable philosopher and aesthetician, but pretty lousy on science, and then to everything that is rotten about philosophers producing military-political ideologues in the essentially despicable Alexander the Great.

The sooner societies stop feeding the naive, fairytale version of Socrates/Plato/Aristotle/Alexander the better for contemporary culture and epistemology.

As the vastly under recognized American poet and itinerant thinker, Charles Olson, made clear as early as the late 1940s, the Greeks gave us the goods of categorization and comparison and beauty as a criterion in decision making and arts criticism , but then polluted our epistemology and thinking with ridiculous mind-body, subject-object dualities that have crippled us ever since.

There was a great enlightenment underway for several centuries before the Greeks essentially side tracked it. We need to teach people about it and quit using the Greeks as simplistic symbols of epistemological legacy. Hell, the Mayansa nd pre-Mayans half a world away awere intellectual studs of the first order and just as compelling as the Greek thinkers in some ways. We just don't have the tablets on them.

jaybate 4 years ago

But its the cultures back before the Greeks that should increasingly occupy our interest in the history of philosophy.

Propaganda, I believe, largely drives our obsolete obsession with ancient Greece. The founders of America fancied the ancient republics of Athens and Rome, because they were republics and republics were once few and far between as precedents. That probably started it. And the founders planned for us to be an empire from the very beginning, so they were also enamored with Athens and Rome for the empires. The founders only quarrel was over what kind of an empire America was to be--a maritime empire with unofficial control of client states, or a maritime empire with official control of client states. Jeffersonians favored the former. Federalists favored the latter. They all understood the crucial place on the maritime chess board of trade between Western Europe and Eastern Asia that America already was during the Revolutions.

The fanciful fixation on ancient Greece got a new lease on life after WWI. When the USA toppled Great Britain's empire after WWI, by letting Great Britain be milked nearly to death before entering WWI on Great Britain's side, it was British diplomats that conjured up the Public Relations fantasy that Great Britain could be Greece to America's Rome. And so the anachronistic focus on Athenian republicanism and Athenian philosophers like Socrates/Plato/Aristotle/Alexander got perpetuated in school curricula.

Again, The Cynics, though we know less of them, were just as important of thinkers in terms of long term impact on how philosophy affected human thinking than Socraters and his begottens.

Dan Pawlowski 4 years ago

LMAO. Well I am pretty sure that Socrates will be remembered long after you are forgotten. Who are you again?

jaybate 4 years ago

Oh, my you are are another light weight that hasn't studied the philosophers you quote, or if you read a bit of one at some Phil 101 prof's instruction, you just looked at the words as school children do. Boulder is a dead end intellectually. You are going to have to educate yourself, or your mind will remain trapped in the little red school primer it now clings pathetically to. :-)

Dan Pawlowski 4 years ago

My quote was for fun. Not a thesis statement. I studied them quite thoroughly. I just don't feel the need to prove my knowledge to people I don't know. I initially thought that you just do not have a sense of humor but now I believe you have some serious self esteem issues. I suppose these boards are cheaper than therapy.

Mike Bratisax 4 years ago

jaybate can certainly be condescending at times but I think he is correct in regards to this post. If none of us knows crap and HCBS is incapable of making mistakes then why are we bothering to post opinions?

I certainly feel that I have a knowledge level above the average fan and there are numerous posters who have far more experience and knowledge than I do that I gain different insights from reading their posts.

Otherwise, this is a complete waste of time and I will wait for Coach Self to tell me what my opinion is.

jaybate 4 years ago

Thx. We agree on the basics. And its always good to hear from you.

But I am not condescending to those that do not condescend to me first.

Outside those situations, I simply believe in board rats abilities to read and think at most any level I can and don't coddle people.

I think people sometimes mistake my taking issues on at length and in some complexity as condescending. Nothing could be further from the truth, at least in my intent. I treat people as adults capable of reading and thinking.

Again, I only condescend to those that condescend to me first and then only do so to show them this condescension business can cut two ways.

DDDHawk 4 years ago

Oops! My comment abve was meant to be posted in response to Dannyboy4hawks's post.

jaybate 4 years ago

"Dis and Dat"

• Matt Doherty gets replaced by great coaches...Roy...then Larry.

• Dalmonte ought to go to Tulsa, if he doesn't do NCSU or KU.

• Frank Martin could be in real trouble unless Dalonte rejoins him.

• Imagine Parker in boot camp. He will need his own personal trash basket.

• Who will replace Ben Howland. I say LB, which will get Janks his head job at SMOO.

KGphoto 4 years ago

Dis: Mike Brey ain't so great.

Dat: I love that Tulsa has become little brother. I know I'm not alone when I say they are now my second favorite team, and they haven't even had a practice under Danny yet. Tulsa is already in my news feed.

Dat: Frank Martin is going to recruit well down there. This whole transfer/tampering/prohibiting N.C. State thing sucks so he may have a rough start. Maybe a down year, maybe two, but I bet he finds himself a firecracker shooting guard and some tough competitors pretty soon. The guy is for real.

Dis: Parker = over-the-neck bucket.

Dat: Back to UCLA huh? Interesting. I bet he does regret not winning it all at a blue blood institution. Maybe 35 years later he gets another shot at Louisville.

Jason Wilson 4 years ago

That's one of the reasons I don't see Parker coming to KU. In the long ESPN article on him, he talked about wanting to stay at his current weight, and pointed out that as a downside to Ohio State (They wanted Sullinger to lose weight) and an upside to UCLA (Howland let Josh Smith stay overweight).

I have to assume he knows KU isn't going to let him be 40 lbs overweight.

Dan Pawlowski 4 years ago

In other articles I have read he loves Hudy and what she could do for him. So which way is it?

Mike Bratisax 4 years ago

Coach Roy owes a lot to Matt Doherty for his recruiting abilities. Both at Kansas and North Carolina.

I don't know if the whole truth of what went down in UNC will ever come out but until that moment, Matt Doherty's career was on the fast track.

Ron Franklin 4 years ago

Anybody know if we have much of a chance with Jabari? Not that any of us REALLY know, it's just that I have not heard his name come up repeatedly like we ave with Tony Parker.

Robert Brock 4 years ago

KU will get Julius Randle. We don't need anybody named Parker.

Ron Franklin 4 years ago

sure hope you are right, but I hear he is high on Duke.

Sources say :) (sarcasm)

KemDooKU 4 years ago

Last year we had no depth and a weak bench - with only one or two decent players coming off the bench and we made it to the final game. The year before we were loaded with NBA talent and a deep bench and don't make it past a play-in team. Is it luck or team unity - Feast or famine - not sure which way is better but with all the new recruits I guess well find out which way works the best - Rock Chalk

april28 4 years ago

I know I must have missed this.....Frank Martin has to sit out a year too, right?

No? Oh so it's just the kids who can't change schools without being punished. The coaches and the AD's can leave, literally, any time they want, go anywhere they want for any reason they want and make more money than they did at the last stop.


Sounds perfectly fair to me. Thank goodness we have a group of College Presidents making sure that the rules are equitable - especially for the students.

Ron Franklin 4 years ago

I believe thaat an equitable world is desirable too. But, can you imagine the mayhem that would ensue if there were not restrictions on kids transferring? Someday, the kids will be in the working world, and they too, will be free to come and go at any job they so choose.

Jeff Coffman 4 years ago

What he is suggesting is not "equitable". It is comparing apple and oranges and saying they should be the same.

Personally, I think it would be absurd to have these college players switch. They have a contract and part of the contract means they sit out a year.

With coaches they have a contract, and when they leave there are pentalties they just typically aren't time driven.

Could you imagine if college players had buyout clauses in their contracts even before they played 1 minute (or even practiced 1 min) in college.

Please...what this guy was suggesting is absurd.

april28 4 years ago

I think that some restrictions are good, but the sit-out year rule is too harsh - especially when there is a coaching change. My point is this: if the coach can leave, then the kid should be able to leave, too.

New Rules:
Coach is fired or leaves. Kids can depart and be eligible immediately at any school.

School is put on NCAA probation - kids can go anywhere they want and play immediately.

Keep the sit-out year for kids who simply want to transfer (i.e. Heaps).

I know that the NCAA says that kids are picking a school and not a coach but let's get real. Who does the recruiting, the wine and dine, the daily mentoring, etc? If that coach can leave, then the kid should also be able to leave without punishment.

NebraskaJayhawk 4 years ago

Then you also think that college athletes should be paid? Because coaches don't do this for free you know. And if coaches are paid then by your logic the athletes should be paid as well. I don't see why you are up in arms about college athletes having to sit out a year on a transfer. This is not new news...

april28 4 years ago

That may be the most illogical post I've ever read. You make absolutely no sense and you make a couple of wild assumptions.

The fact that is isn't news doesn't really make it right. So....explain to me why you think a coach should be able to move without punishment but a kid should not.

John Randall 4 years ago

The coaches are bound by the terms of their contracts – which to not allow them free rein without responsibility, but have significant financial requirements.

The players are bound the terms of their scholarships – which means by the NCAA rules (which change yearly, if not weekly).

Not to say this is the way it should be, but it is the way it IS.

BTW, I don't think all liberal irresponsibility should have a free pass from the press, but I am smart enough to realize it is SO.

Jeff Coffman 4 years ago

What if they retire, still put on probation.

By your logic, when Roy Williams left to go to UNC and Bill Self came from Illinois. Both Illinois and Kansas would have been placed on probation because their coaches left.

I guess if I was negotiating a deal with another team, for instance the Roy Williams to UNC. I would have announced my retirement from the University of Kansas. The next day I would announce that I planned to have been retired from this sport, but after sitting down with my family and realizing that I missed it, I felt that I would come out of retirement, I'm greatful for the University of North Carolina and the opportunity it afforded me in coming there to continue the dream. I really didn't think I would have missed the game that much.

brooksmd 4 years ago

I don't believe he meant the school should be put on probation if the coach leaves. I think what he meant is if the school is put on probation for whatever reason, the kid should be allowed to transfer without having to sit a year.

Dan Pawlowski 4 years ago

Oh oh. Now we are talking about equity of treatment as it applies to coaches and athletes. What a quagmire. I better get off the board before I get on my soapbox.

Chayse Patrick 4 years ago

Ya know, there's not any of us that has a clue what our needs are. Sure we can speculate and say this guy and that guy but HCBS has the solid grip on this situation.
He said next years recruiting class isn't complete yet. So while we ALL say KU needs this guy or that guy leave it to Bill, I think he knows wht he's doing!!!!

WilburNether 4 years ago

I guess he didn't like the prospect of someone going Frank Martin on him?

Joe Baker 4 years ago

This is only a window shopping opportunity for KU. I doubt it will amount to much. However, it does raise some concern with our chances at Parker at this point. If we were getting Parker or the coaches know something, why would we go after this kid? Is it just a routine coaching check? It's probably just a routine interest. It would be good to have a kid with some D1 experience. South Carolina was physcial and gave uk fits too.

I thnk it's down to KU, UCLA, and Georgia. I really think its between KU and UCLA, with a very slight edge to KU. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he chooses to stay home either. I hope Parker is reading this kid's transfer story. In the end, you have to make your own decisions and not do or pick what others want you to. You could be left in the lurch with a very unfortunate situation.

brojoe 4 years ago

I agree with Stanleys. Not only do most of u not know what ur talking about but I can't stand when some of u bag on these 18 yr old kids when ur sour about them not comong here, and u know some of them come in here and read this stuff. And I also don't know where I'm going with this but there u have it

april28 4 years ago

Thanks. Please never post again.

brojoe 4 years ago

I'm so very sorry that my post didn't live up to your expectations. I forgot that my point wasnt to vent about the constant negativity toward every recruit that doesnt show but to entertain April28. Next time when I get a break I'll make sure and take a little time to tailor to your needs. EAD

Dan Pawlowski 4 years ago

I agree with you about bagging on 18 year olds here. From time to time I remind folks that they are kids and that they have turds that are more athletic than all of us.

HawkKlaw 4 years ago


Last offseason, there were a lot of board rats here saying things like "Bill Self can't recruit", "HCBS lost his recruiting touch", "why can't Bill Self bring in top 50 talent?" and even a few "we need a better recruiter as head coach." Ye of little faith!

Then the 2011-12 Final Four season happened (maybe Bill Self heard you guys?), and now the sentiment is "Trust Bill Self" and "I don't care what recruits we get, Bill Self knows what he's doing."

Oh, how the tables have turned. As some of us have maintained all along, it pays to believe in HCBS!

Joe Baker 4 years ago


Some are still bitching after going to a NC game. They lost to five NBA draft picks. All were McD AA too. Outstanding coaching if you ask me. Any coach could win a NC with those five players at uk too. Calipari is really overrated.

John Randall 4 years ago

Actually, the sixth one was a Sr, so not "lost" in the sense most schools bitch about.

april28 4 years ago

You understand that you just made the opposing point, right? We lost to a bunch of 5-star recruits.

Joe Baker 4 years ago

My point exactly. I've never seen you or your blank avatar here. Although you make a good point about my post being the "opposing point." Think about "we lost to a bunch of 5-star recruits" and then tell me what's wrong with that? Look at the correction prior to your post, "6 draft picks." NOW, think about that a moment and tell me if my point makes sense, wrong?

Let me clarify if you still don't get it and I'll be very direct for you. How in the hell do you or any other anti- Bill Self recruiting doubters expect him to pull 5-6 top of the top ESPN 100 recruits out of his azz? No coach is able to do that. Don't give me any bullsh!t about Calipari being a superior recruiter either. The man is way overrated. He is no better than Bill Self. You don't coach much less recruit this kind of talent and not win a freakin' NC.

Now Calipari doesn't have to "work" so hard at recruiting. He has most recruits thinking he can walk on freakin' ncaa water and feed the entire bluenation a bunch of horse crap by winning a NC. I don't care if the man wins a NC every year with 5-6 top recruits. He's crooked and just because it's not "proven," doesn't mean he's been pulling this crap at each of his programs.

Now tell me again how Self and Co can recruit 5-6 top of the top recruits since you doubters seem to think Calipari is a recruiting guru? Now Calipari, if not caught, will be able to get most any recruit he wants because he won a NC and sent most of his players off to the NBA. This by no doing of his own accord, I can assure you. Hell, I can put crap in a bottle, sell to a high-end outlet or distributor, find success, and win awards. Bottom line is, I'm selling crap. Sad thing is, some people drink it and believe it to be the best tasting crap on earth. This is John Calipari's program, wrapped in a nice package and sold as the best in the nation.

LOL- I'll never buy into it. I'll take Bill Self's recruiting success and his recruiting failures which are way better than John Calipari's OAD recruiting successes, with or without a NC. BIll Self doesn't sell crap.

Joe Baker 4 years ago

Sorry for the long post. I'm sick and tired of people thinking Self should be pullig in top recruits to win a NC. I enjoy watching him take what he does and turning them into a team that almost beat a bunch of 5-star recruits. KU came 8 lousy points from beating this group. I"m very happy with Self's recruits and can't wait to see what he does moving forward.

Ben Simonett 4 years ago

Recruiting has a lagging impact on a program.

the struggles on the recruiting trail the past few seasons won't really begin to manifest on the court untill 2 years from now.

the starting five for next year is solid, but once again the depth will be lacking(first signs of recruiting woes)

look at the potential roster for '13-'14.....scary

HawkKlaw 4 years ago

Well, I know that you're a KSU troll, so I'm going to temper my response, but obviously there were recruiting struggles this past offseason (even HCBS would agree to that) and they manifested on the court this year. And if you'll recall Bill Self took that team to the Final Four. So my point is, Bill Self gets players that fit his system and wins a ton of games every year, no matter who he puts on the court.

Depth isn't lacking at all next year. Maybe you're looking at the KSU roster?

The potential roster for 2013-14 has sharp-shooter Connor Frankamp at guard. Scary indeed...for opposing teams at least.

Ben Simonett 4 years ago

next years front court has Withey and 3 freshman. not exactly T rob and the Morii coming of the bench.

'13'-14 back court is solid but for a team that runs a Hi-Lo the talent in the post is going to be sup par.

John Randall 4 years ago

Since you believe any 5✭ recruit would be a great stroke for the program, I'm interested in your explanation of success by teams with none of them and others that can't win because their 5✭s don't know basketball is a team sport.

Bill Self knows there are many kids who can do it his way, but most of them are not rated that highly by the doofus rating services because solid blue-collar types don't sell as many subscriptions and ads.

Krohnutz 4 years ago

Since Davis just "graduated" to the NBA, let me translate your first sentence:

"Next year's front court has the best shot blocker in the country, and a mix of big bodies and scorers that are going to be rough early on, but will polish as the season goes on. With any interior passing development the low post should be as deep as it has been since 2008."

There we go, translated for the viewing world.

Ben Simonett 4 years ago

"as deep as it has been since 2008"


Aldrich, Morris, Morris

Morris, Morris, Trob

Peters, Lucas, Withey isn't even in the same league as those two gorups let alone the '08 front court itself.

KemDooKU 4 years ago

Maybe you should look at it again Ding Dong- a top 15 recruit and a lights out shooter from Wichita. - oh boy the sky is falling

Ben Simonett 4 years ago

thats all good untill you remember our whole offense is run through the bigs.

'13-'14 front court:

Sophomore Jamari Traylor Sophomore Landen Lucas Sophomore Zach Peters

In today's college basketball you either go young and talented or you go with experienced guys that know your system. that front court is neither.

HawkKlaw 4 years ago

You forgot about Ellis, who will be a sophomore and a starter (and a stud, at that).

Not worried at all about the bigs.

Ben Simonett 4 years ago

Self has stated on multiple occasions that Ellis will play the 3

jaybate 4 years ago


Copy and paste on this point. Down stream effects in all activities are hard for folks to think about and so they often ignore it, but do so at the peril of the validity of their insight.

I wrote a day or so ago that next year is the year things seriously come home to roost.

Last year we felt the effects in a shallow bench. We were inexperienced at the bigs, but age-maturity compensated substantially.

This year we will feel the effects much more dramatically in the form of young bigs, i.e., only one experienced big (Withey) and lots of inexperienced and age-immature bigs.

Despite the high expectations of board rats and national brothelcasters, I mean broadcasters, it is much tougher depending on young, inexperienced bigs, than it is on experienced, mature bigs.

Jeff Withey and Kevin Young are experienced and physically mature and so they are both going to have to play a whole lot of minutes, if Self aims to win another conference ring.

My new mantra is: remember Marcus, Kieff, Thomas, DBlock, and Darrell Arthur as freshmen, and you will have an excellent idea about what you will get out of Ellis, Peters, Landon Lucas, Jamari Traylor and Parker, if he were to sign. We are looking next year at a whole lot of, well, these guys will put it together as sophomores. :-)

If Withey and Kevin Young were our usual big studs for big men, and not exceedingly slender types, we would be looking at a really, really positive situation next season, but they are not.

Withey and Young will have a huge amount of trouble with XTReme muscle without Superman around. Withey and Young are pretty narrowly defined players, unless they both add 20-30 pounds this off season. They are very fast up and down the floor. They can both get up and guard their positions. But neither can handle the brawny types for 30-35 minutes, or so it seems after last season.

As a result, Self will have to play Peters quite a lot of minutes out of the box, when the other team is brawny.

Likewise, Self will have to play Ellis a lot at the 4, when the opponent goes small at both 4 and and 5. Withey does not appear able to chase and hedge with the short 5s.

So, when you try to imagine next season, imagine self having to go to Marcus and Kieff for significant minutes as freshmen to shore up Withey and Young. Marcus over the course of the season got to where he was a solid, garbage man 4 his freshman season, but he was relying on an age-mature boarding machine in Cole to cover up his learning curve.

If Ellis and/or Peters develop at the rate Marcus did as a freshman, then next year's team could be a Sweet 16 Team, maybe an Elite Eight team, with some breaks, even a Final Four team if BenMac and Andrew can really shoot the lights out from Daisy Hill.

But not if not.

HawkKlaw 4 years ago

I don't see Young being a starter. I bet Ellis will start over him. Self will make sure Ellis gets a ton of minutes. That's the kind of talent that Ellis is.

I get your point, but don't forget that we have Elijah, Releford and Withey all out there with a lot of experience. Withey will be one of the best big men in the country next year, Releford will be (already is) one of the best defenders in the country next year, and Elijah will be one of the best point guards in the country next year. Not many teams can boast that combo of experience and talent.

BMac will play a lot and will play confidently, as he has been in the system for an entire semester already.

Ellis is more refined than Marcus/Markieff were out of high school. He will be much better as a sophomore, but I believe he will be adequate at the 4 spot next season. He's not going to be as good as TRob was this year, but he is gifted and will make a huge impact immediately.

And you say that we have only one experienced big (Withey), but Kevin Young is experienced and (to a certain extent) so is Traylor. Traylor has been in Self's system for an entire semester already.

KU's roster will be solid next season. We've got four experienced impact players (EJ, Rele, Withey & Young) and Self will probably play four or five of the younger, talented crop (BMac, Ellis, White, Traylor, Peters, etc.). That's a pretty healthy mix, if you ask me. I don't see any trickle down effects from last year's recruiting woes hurting next year's team. In fact, I think it will be the opposite effect. We've got our usual great recruits, plus we've got two guys who have already been in Self's system for a semester. If anything, the recruiting woes of last season has made KU stronger for next season.

jaybate 4 years ago

Ellis will start, but it is Young that will likely be in at crunch times. Self played Brady for Xavier at crunch time. Same deal with Young, unless Young is not up to the challenge. And if Young is not up to it and Self has to rely on a freshman 4 there are going to be a lot of hairy moments before February.

Either way, though the deeper problem is not having some one tall and brawny ready to play inside. Traylor is short and brawny, like one of Travis Ford OSU little bugs, has no experience, has it a year of practice maturity, which puts him where Thomas was as a soph...good for 15-20 minutes backup at most.

Or Self can go to Peters and Lucas for tall and brawny with no experience.

Big men, like wine, need time to age, or they cost a coach plenty.

Self has to play young bugs next year, and the bar tab will be steep, unless Withey can add 20-30 lbs. and supply the real muscle, while the freshmen learn the ropes.

HawkKlaw 4 years ago

I'm not so sure that Young will be in at crunch time. I think it depends on the situation.

If we need offense, Ellis will be in at crunch time.

If we need a defensive stop (or if we need Ellis to not foul out), Young will be in at crunch time.

Self will certainly have to go with at least one young big at all times, but I would argue that Self will not let the final possession of any game come down to a freshman's decision. In crunch time, it will be Elijah, Travis and Withey who are called on to go out and win the game. Whoever the young big out there with them is, he will not be asked to do much more than set some screens and get in position for the rebound.

We have so much experience at the other positions that we don't need to worry too much about the youth of whoever is playing the 4 spot.

Ben Simonett 4 years ago

Good points,

the only thing that has me scarred is that Danny Manning was unanimously credited with most of the rapid progression the Morri and Trob made there freshman and sophomore years.

Can we expect the same progression from Traylor, Peters and Lucas with out him?

jaybate 4 years ago

Please reattach your ass. :-)

Ben Simonett 4 years ago

No thank you,

Another guy that will need a couple years to develop into the system, only this guy doesn't have the years of eligibility to spare.

cvhindustries 4 years ago

Will there be a highlight video of this year's KU basketball team like the one after we won it all in '08? I know a lot of you will say, "We don't celebrate coming in 2nd place at Kansas." It was still a great year though, and I'd like to have any sort of commemoration available.

Jason Roberts 4 years ago

A possibility but it looks like he's trying to transfer to North Carolina State with an alleged block from the university's athletic director. If we throw in the Bo Ryan factor then Florida might be on the "block" list as well.

Aside from lack of help on his team I wonder how much Frank Martin becoming the new head coach really factored into this decision.

jaybate 4 years ago

The keys are:

--assistant coach that recruited him to USC left for NCSU staff and initiated contact about transfer before Harris was released by USC.

--USC AD hot under collar at assistant and so said kid can go anywhere but NCSU.

--old high school coach is running interference for Harris.

--out of high school, Harris apparently chose between USC and Florida.

Wild guess. The high school coach fed the kid to the assistant at USC, who then jumped to NCSU. Now the coach is running interference for the kid again and maybe feeding the kid to NCSU's assistant again.

Gee, I wonder what's going on? :-)

jaybate 4 years ago

The keys are:

--assistant coach that recruited him to USC left for NCSU staff and initiated contact about transfer before Harris was released by USC.

--USC AD hot under collar at assistant and so said kid can go anywhere but NCSU.

--old high school coach is running interference for Harris.

--out of high school, Harris apparently chose between USC and Florida.

Wild guess. The high school coach fed the kid to the assistant at USC, who then jumped to NCSU. Now the coach is running interference for the kid again and maybe feeding the kid to NCSU's assistant again.

Gee, I wonder what's going on? :-)

jaybate 4 years ago

Just speculating without inside information, of course. Who knows what is really going on.

Jason Wilson 4 years ago

Parker moved his decision back again, I think... to Monday.

John Randall 4 years ago

Whoop-de=doo! Three more days of stroking his own ego. Before he finally announces, his head will the size of his @$$.

jaybate 4 years ago

There is a rumor going around that Hamlet Parker is in Denmark and needs till Monday to get back.

jaybate 4 years ago


This is what happens, when courses in logic is not taught in junior high and high school, when it is easiest to learn. The sort of posting you are noting above means there are a lot of terrific, befuddled consumers out there. But its hell on an an online community. :-)

barackchalkjhawk 4 years ago

What's the word on Anrio Adams? I have been leaving in a cave (aka - a conference) for the past few days.

texashawk10 4 years ago

Waiting on his ACT scores to come in and if it's good enough to get into KU, then he will be on his way to KU.

barackchalkjhawk 4 years ago

Thanks! That was "living" by the way, conference did more damage than I thought.

jaybate 4 years ago

Am I the only one that noticed BrockIII's post on the Andrew White thread about Andrew being interviewed and saying he has a 33" one step jump?

Only 33"?

Tyrel Reed went up 40"!

Good lord, Travis must go up 42", right?

BRush had to be able to get up to 38, didn't he?

Think about it. At 6-6 and and 33" Tyrel Reed and Travis Releford, both 6-4, and 40", or more, could block almost all of Andrew White's shots on the perimeter, and eat him at the rim!

Is there an error in the 33" number?

What gives here?

jaybate 4 years ago

Thx konk, but I'm not the one overestimating it. Don't shoot the messenger. :-)

Self said and the LJW reported a number of times that Tyrel had a 40" vertical. Maybe they were kidding?

And I thought the word was that Marcus got up into the thirties.

Its good to know though that these NBA guys can only go 28" avg.

Looks like these jumping stats the schools throw around about their players are exaggerated. Wasn't Kenny Gregory supposed to go 42"?

David Thompson and Air Jordan were supposed to be 42 also, I recall.

Amazing that Jordan could only jump something less than 36" on a one step.

jaybate 4 years ago

Again, it ain't me babe, no, no, no it aint me babe, it ain't me that exaggeration' the hops, babe...

Just repeating what the hype has been.

Glad you set me straight that the hypers were wrong though.

texashawk10 4 years ago

I believe both stats are accurate. When Self and others talked about Reed having a 40" vertical leap, they're talking about Reed's vertical when he has a running start. The one step vertical is always going to be lower because of the lack of momentum that you get from a running start. I doubt Reed has a high enough one step vertical to dunk but he does with a running start. I also feel pretty safe in saying that Andrew White's vertical is over 40 inches when he has a running start.

oldalum 4 years ago

I'd also guess that Reed didn't come out of high school with that kind of vertical. (Do I remember him callling it a two-foot jump?) He was one of the more successful weight-lifting stories, so I expect he built up his legs a lot over four years.

JayHawkFanToo 4 years ago

texashawk, I believe the NBA measurements are for standing vertical jump; that is when the jumper has both feet together and jumps straight up. This is the equivalent of a player getting a rebound under the basket, flexing his knees and going straight up. The one step jump is similar to what players do on a jump ball; one foot is placed back and brought forward as the jump starts. It is obviously a more efficient jump and the result would be higher than the standing jump. As comparison, Shaq had a 32" standing leap, but when your standing reach is 9'-8" you don't really need to jump very high.

texashawk10 4 years ago

Jaybate's original point was not about a standing vertical, but that Andrew White reportedly has a 33" one step vertical and he was saying that he felt that was low because Bill Self on multiple occasions mentioned that Tyrel Reed had a 40" vertical. I was pointing out that both are probably accurate because Reed's 40" vertical is likely his running vertical and wherever White's vertical was measured probably used the one step technique to measure with and that if White has a full running start that his vertical is likely over 40" as well.

JayHawkFanToo 4 years ago

Kenny Gregory recorded the highest no-step vertical jump (40") and the highest maximum vertical jump (46") that have ever been measured at the NBA camp. Gregory was an exceptional athlete.

If White's one step is 33" chances are his highest vertical is more in the 36"-37" range. I would say his jump is above average but not an I don't know how Tyrel Reed's jumps was measured, but is my understanding that it was the best in the team and HC Self was truly impressed.

jaybate 4 years ago

Thx for sharing these insights. I think you nailed it.

texashawk10 4 years ago

Damontre Harris is a shorter version of Jeff Withey. He's not a great scorer or rebounder, but he is a good shot blocker (2.3 per game in 26 minutes per game last year). I think he would be a nice fall back if Tony Parker goes elsewhere because in all honesty Tony Parker would not be much of a factor at KU next year because of his weight. Harris would have his redshirt sit out season to learn the system and let Hudy put some weight on him. He's already a very good defensive player which we all know is something that Self values more than anything else on the floor. I think given Parker's lack of vertical ability, I would rather have Harris because the most successful Bill Self teams have been the ones that have a shot blocker patrolling the paint and two years with Harris with this core of players could very easily result in a national title in the next 3 years for KU.

Curtis Stutz 4 years ago

Seriously, how many people need to come on here just to post "trust HCBS" Wow, your insight amazes me Were you talking last year about how you thought this past team could make a FF run? I was, but I don't come on here and suggest that nobody that roots for KU should ever be disappointed if HCBS doesn't land certain recruits. It's not like it's his fault when a top recruit chooses to play elsewhere, say Tarczewski, but that doesn't mean it isn't disappointing and we should all take the Candide response of "all that happens is for the best."

Like ALBerg said earlier I like the idea of this kid and spreading the scholarships to a different class. I assume he'd be a junior then when he starts playing and it would add a body to Tharpe's class. All-SEC defender, 'nuff said, proven, if you can get him you want him.

It's unfortunate he'll have to sit when he has a new coach coming in, doesn't seem right, but I guess they make the rules that way so schools don't have a mass exodus every time they change coaches.

Jaybate I don't believe the NC St. assistant had anything to do with his recruitment to USC. Also sounds like if he really wants to go to NCSt. and has to walk on red-shirt his HS coach thinks they can make it work. The fact that his HS coach is so up in arms about the NCSt. block makes you think that's where he really wants to go.

Doubt KU will get this one, but we keep seeing more and more high profile transfers in cbb and it's exciting that KU has a chance with some of these guys. Kudos to drgnslyr's comments.

Congrats to Perry Ellis on making 2nd Team HS AA, look forward to watching you compete at KU.

jaybate 4 years ago

I read in a South Carolina newspaper story that it was the ncsu assistant that ticked off the USC ad. Sounded credible to me.

Tony Bandle 4 years ago


I will be thrilled to join in..ten biggest complaints on this site [in no particular order]:

1] Jaybate's post are too long..I skip them.!! 2] You're a [K-State, Mizzou, UK - pick one] troll and need to go away!! 3] For the friggin millionth time it's the University of Kansas!! 4] HCBS can't recruit anyone!! 5] Keegan is a washed up hack!! 6] Morningstar____ [fill in the blank]!! 7] ahpersecoachingexperience_ _ ___ [fill in the blanks] 8] Posted with no malice intended...yeah, right!!!! 9] Take that track in the Memorial Stadium and shove it!! 10] Strictly from OakvilleJHawk...why can't we play basketball all 12 months of the year??!!

Alohahawk 4 years ago

Like your list. #11 KU should jump ship and join another conference because the Big 12 has no future. As for #8. I think Jaybate adds that to about one in twenty posts. And I've added the same to a few posts, myself. Primarily, because the LJW would probably censor the post if it weren't added. I mean, just look at the disclaimers one sees everywhere (even during movie credits, or ads on TV where the stations notify the audience that they don't necessarily agree with the messages being put forth.) What with all the lawsuits now-a-days just about anything broadcast, or put in print format, can be construed as libelous. BTW, I did have one post that was censored. It was a long time ago and I can't even remember what I said other that it dealt with Kenstinky and Cal Lie Pari in particular. I thought I was being funny, but I guess the LJW didn't. But I don't think I added the "malice" line. So there is my bag of the day. No malice intended. :>)

jaybate 4 years ago

Think of it as a PoMod tip of the hat in migration to full blown Neo-Mannerism en route to Neo -Baroque in an age when science and the information revolution have stressed the underlying belief system in what the disillusioned unfortunately call a puppet order in which the marionettes reputedly are, like so many corrupt Florentines late in Michelangelo's life, prescribing suffering both real and ritualized to distract the masses and sustain the undermined order.

Or as an amusement.

Or better yet, as both.

Down with PoMod! Up with neo- mannerism, when the going gets corrupt and the tough want to get baroque!

(Note: all fiction. No malice.)

RecruitHawk 4 years ago

Recruiting Updates and Opinions:

  • 2013 Chris Walker (6'10" combo forward,ranked # 7 espn FL) has verbally been expressing his love for KU on twitter. In past three days he has had over 15 post about KU and 0 for any other school. He also recently posted a picture in a Jayhawk hat. Just speculation but I am starting to feel a heavy lean towards the Hawks. It also helps that his good AAU friend Brannen Greene is recruiting him hard. They both have tournaments in Vegas this weekend which will only help.

  • Like Walker, Al Freeman (6'4" combo guard, ranked # 13 espn NC) has been heavy on the Hawks. In early March he cut his list to KU and Nova but since then has added UCLA, Duke, and Ohio State. While KU and Nova are still leaders, I believe the Hawks are loosing momentum especially with in state Duke involved. He is also close to Greene.

  • Even though this kid has great D i'm hoping Self takes a pass and saves the scholly for 2013 class. We already have Frankamp and Greene and we are in running with many more. This WILL be Ku's best class in years.

Joe Baker 4 years ago

I like your planning. If we can get Walker and Freeman, then saving that paper would be a great idea. I don't know what's happening with Freeman. Let's hope Walker and Freeman follow Greene to KU.

REHawk 4 years ago

I go with the "Bird in the hand" theory. If Self has a chance to land SEC DPOY who has two years of eligibility remaining, then grab him. Kids who are now enthused with Jayhawk ball, but choose to play long waiting games, well, they are merely "Birds in the brush." The dynamic of recruiting encompasses too many variables to allow a sound recruiter to sit back and wait. The Harris kid was a better defender than Anthony Davis, and won a league award comparable to that of Jeff Withey. Gold!

Alohahawk 4 years ago

I've never been one of those "twitter" people, don't have an account or whatever it takes to get their messages, so thanks for the update on Walker. Walker and/or Randle? A lot could depend on what Parker decides to do. Since Randle looks doubtful (Coach K seems to be his idol), and he's pretty much a lock for OAD, I'd really hope Self's going all out for Walker, who I'd guess could be in college for 2 or possibly even 3 years. He just needs to add some weight/muscle before heading to the NBA. At 6'10", and as a 5 star - top 5 to 7 ranked recruit, Walker would be spot on in Self's high/low offense. >As for Freeman, KU might have a slight advantage over the 3 schools he just added, because he has had KU's attention pretty much since day one. And having Greene in his ear can't hurt. >As for Harris, KU would only have him one year, even though it would be the year after Withey leaves. With a few exceptions, Withey being a recent one, KU hasn't had the best of luck with transfers over the years. And KU got Jeff early (after just one semester at Arizona), so it fit perfectly with KU's established bigs.

REHawk 4 years ago

Aloha, we had decent luck with Little, Young and Withey. And Harris has 2 rather than 1 year(s) of eligibility remaining, plus the time he would serve as a super practice player next season. I don't see him coming to Lawrence unless Coach Self and Co. can design a splendid blueprint for him, but hey, if that should be the case then I am high on signing him. The kid has very high quality credentials, proven bigtime Div. I experience.

Alohahawk 4 years ago

Regarding Harris, I knew the "one year" could be viewed differently by others, but what I intended was that he only has 1 year in which he could actually play. With Harris, KU would lose one year of court eligibilty, which could (possibly) be filled by a highly ranked recruit who would be eligible to play during that same time period. I do agree that that 1st year would be beneficial as a "Self" indoctrination period. And, with Withey leaving, he could fill the defensive void of that departure.

Technically speaking Little was a transfer, but I've never really thought of JUCO players as transfers. It's somewhat like semantics, one word's definition meaning something different to another. I consider transfers as those that decide that their original school didn't work out, so the change is due to what they consider unforeseeable circumstances (ie. Withey, Harris, or Turner at Arizona, Etc.) With a JUCO player it is inevitable, he has to change/transfer schools after 1 or 2 years, or drop out.

Not to sound too much like I'm backpeddling from my original post, because Young is definitely a transfer and has worked out pretty well, but KY sort of falls into that hazy area, similar to Little. Young wasn't a player on scholarship at Loyola (I may be wrong on that?). If I remember correctly, he was an assistant on their staff. So again, he wasn't a disgruntled player, dissatisfied with his situation. I don't know? After having been a member of their staff, could he have played at Loyola?

I guess my thoughts on any recruit/transfer would be: That the benefits they bring to the table (immediate availability as well as their abilities) have to outweigh another player's. In this case, would signing Harris scare away a possible top ranked recruit like Parker or Walker? The bottom line depends on just that - They have to have the desire to play in Coach Self's system and fit in as a team player, and truly want to be a Jayhawk by signing at the bottom of that LOI (transfer contract?).

HAWKTOPIA 4 years ago

On a beautiful Friday like today, looking out over the water, i feel Conner Frankenkamp will be a 4 year player who will stabilize the hawks for years to come. The bigs will come running in. i'll take a quick point guard with great hands and a gun every time.

When it comes to tourney time, it is the ball handlers that get you deep. the reason you need bigs is that they cannot take the pace and foul too often when they are tired.

Elijah handsd off to Conner.

Alohahawk 4 years ago

Frankenkamp? Surely you must be referring to Conner Frankamp? Or have you been reading too much Mary Wollstonecraft (Goodwin) Shelley?

jaybate 4 years ago

What a woman!

Too much for Percy Bysshe.

ATexasJayhawk 4 years ago

Should Tony P opt to Georgia, UCLA, or Kentucky, this kid, an SEC starter, steps in in a year and plays the low big allowing talented 4's like Ellis and Lucas (yes I said Lucas - much better than scouting services have rated - google his accomplishments this year) to bang down 15 ft jump shots. Plus gives HCBS more options in gambling defensively. This should be looked at as a huge upside!

REHawk 4 years ago

Aloha, I was stretching more than somewhat, referring to Little as a transfer. In terms of his two year notoriety as one of the best j.c. players in the country, however, he is similar to D. Harris, who, in his second Div. I season, led a major league as best defender. It has taken awhile for Withey to earn his keep, but, in all fairness, he faced injuries early at KU, and played behind Cole and Markieff, two lottery picks. Jeff is our best transfer player to arrive at AFH during the Bill Self years. Young stepped into a much needed sub role, and made a more immediate gametime impact than Withey, though not so talented in terms of future NBA selection. This Harris kid has proved that he can defend vs. some of the best that Kentucky and Florida had to offer. If his profile fits one of the blueprints for Jayhawk play in 2013-14 and beyond, then I view him as a more valuable newcomer than an unproven top 20 recruit who might be iffy as a dependable fit, or who might bolt after one season. Which is not to say that Harris, too, might bolt after playing one year in a Jayhawk singlet. However, he would bolster our practice squads next season, perhaps make even a more resounding practice impact than did BenMac and Jamari this past semester. Sizing up all facets of a noteworthy recruit is something of a crapshoot. Calipari struck the jackpot this season with Teague, Kidd-Gilchrist and Davis...the fact that those 3 blended so well with his two returning sophs and Miller. Arizona and Texas fell somewhat flat with their super recruits. And Roy, with his stable of McDeez. Well, I ramble with verbosity. My point is, D. Harris has proved that he can defend as one of the best, and is a noteworthy shot blocker who is seeking a better team fit than he sees with the coaching change at South Carolina. I've gotta think that Bill Self sees a tremendous upside to bringing this kid aboard for a couple of more major runs at a national title. Just imagine, a recruit already well established as a bigtime defender! (p.s. Although Wesley was a transfer, he arrived as an unrecruited walk-on whose brother financed his first rear. Otherwise, Appleton is the only other player that I can remember coming into Self's program from a jr. college. So, Self and Co. have gotten good production from the two recruited transfers, Withey and Young. Oops! Forgot C.J. Henry. Technically, I suppose that Xavier, too, was a transfer, even though he did not play for Memphis after Calipari roared away to Lexington. But if we delve into decommits, then we must mention the twins, Tyshawn, no telling who else!)

Alohahawk 4 years ago

Good points, and mahalo for the recall imfo. If one sticks to just transfers (not decommits or JUCO's), and just to straight transfers under Self, I admit that KU hasn't done that bad. Unfortunately, with advancing age scrambling my braincells, and as a long time fan, my "transfer" recollections go back to Luke Axtell, and some of those which Roy had bad luck with. And I admit, I can't even remember some of their names. Meanwhile, the decommits KU/Self has been able to bring in, as the names you mentioned indicate, has been impressive.

REHawk 4 years ago

I suppose what still stands out as almost mindboggling to me is the terrific record of this past team, and the contributions which Self got from Withey and Young. As I recall, Young was not only a transfer, but also a decommit...from San Diego State, where Coach Fisher insinuated that Self was a recruiting thief! Calipari played with one of those theft jobs, hat-trick and face-mugger artist T. Jones, who originally committed to Washington.

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