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Sunday, October 30, 2011

Keegan

Another sorry trip to Austin

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KU coach Turner Gill opening statement after 43-0 loss to Texas

KU coach Turner Gill makes an opening statement following his team's 43-0 loss to Texas on Oct. 29, 2011.

Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Turner Gill

Kansas coach Turner Gill talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 43-0 loss to Texas on Oct. 29, 2011.

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— For the second time in three years, a Kansas University football coach sitting on the hottest seat in college football came into Darrell K. Royal Texas Memorial Stadium with his reeling team.

At least Mark Mangino had just one more game after leaving Austin with a six-game losing streak. Turner Gill, in the second year of a five-year, $10 million contract, had four games remaining when he walked off the field with a six-game losing streak Saturday, the scoreboard showing Texas 43, Kansas 0.

Both plank-walkings have had messy, sad sides to them. In the case of Mangino, who just two years earlier had coached his team to a 12-1 record and an Orange Bowl title, it was sad to see him as the object of an investigation launched by his boss, Lew Perkins, into his treatment of players. This gave former players, in some cases looking for someone to blame for their poor college careers, a chance to come forward and damage Mangino’s chances of landing another coaching job. The coach’s famous temper armed them with material they had held onto for years.

Turner Gill, hired to fix something that wasn’t broken and paid like a proven big-time winner to do it, has damaged his resume by sending ill-prepared, under-motivated teams to slaughter week after week.

Most weeks, the defense and special teams, in that order, have been the chief culprits. In Saturday’s 43-0 loss to Texas, the offense was on the wrong end of domination.

Gill’s efforts to put a positive spin on the blowouts during his weekly Tuesday news conferences have had a surreal quality to them. Did he really think he was swaying opinions backed by scoreboards by reciting statistics?

Gill’s halftime speeches, snippets of which the athletic department captures on video and shares with the public, always feature him talking loudly in clichés and lacking insight or specific adjustments. The alarming lack of specificity raises the question of whether his words arm the players with anything they can take back onto the field. The players have responded to the macro-and-cheese talks by getting outscored 87-7 in the third quarter in the past six games.

On Saturday, the third was KU’s best quarter, with Texas winning it 7-0. Long before that, the Longhorns’ dominance had sealed the outcome.

The beatings at the hands of Texas are an annual affair now. The Big 12’s contraction to 10 teams meant KU had to play six games, not three, against South schools, poor timing for Gill in his effort to inspire a young team to hang with faster, bigger, more experienced athletes.

He’s not whining about it, and, of course, said he believes Kansas can recruit enough talent to hang with Big 12 powerhouses armed with geographic advantages.

“I feel confident about it,” he said after Saturday’s game. “(When) I came here to accept the job, it was 12 teams, but that didn’t really matter. I felt we as a staff could come out and compete well even this year and in upcoming years. We just want to continue to compete and get better. I know it’s going to take a little time.”

KU, of course, hasn’t been competitive yet under Gill (5-15 overall, 1-12 in the Big 12, 1-1 vs. FCS schools).

All 14 of his losses to FBS foes have been by double digits, with an average margin of defeat of 32 points. Saturday’s was the fifth by 42 points or greater. The beatings apparently haven’t changed Gill’s long-term expectations.

“I feel very confident that we can go out and get some people and continue to improve this football program to eventually win championships,” Gill said.

Barring a miraculous finish to his second season, he’ll never get the chance.

KU paid Mangino $3 million to go away. Gill has $6 million coming after Dec. 31 of this year, and his assistants, signed through June 2013, are guaranteed $2.8 million combined.

Those bleak numbers in the ledgers and the various record-breaking figures that scream failure week after week have spawned a guessing game that those who care about KU football find far more compelling than the games: What hero or heroes will step up and finance the buyout of the football coach and the portion of his staff that his successor doesn’t want to keep?

Another question of interest to KU football fans: Would available former Texas Tech coach Mike Leach prefer to work at Arizona or Kansas?

Comments

kansaspike 2 years, 10 months ago

Considering he'd get to play tech once a year...Kansas.

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Ibajayhawk 2 years, 10 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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heybluekc 2 years, 10 months ago

I am not gonna pin this on Turner Gill. Not yet. If Zenger could fire Gill right now and hire Leach and retain the assistant coaches then Hell ya but that wont happen. Hell ya it sucks bad getting it handed to us week in and week out.However wspe just got done with a stretch of 6 games against oponents ranked in the top 25 at one time or another with 3 more left fitting that criteria on the remaining schedule. A look at yesterdays depth chart reveals; 3 seniors who start and 28 freshmen or red shirt freshmen and sophmores on the two deep including the specialty positions. Recruiting is the best thing Turner Gill has going right now. Trying to coach the Mangino leftovers is not working out too good for him. Kale Pick could not play QB ,here and is not really that good of a wideout yet, Mangino touted him very highly. How many of the 23 recruits brought in this spring by Turner are still on redshirts? The ones who have played have been fairly impressive. Peirson and Miller are all they were hyped up to be and will be even better once the O-line gets shored up. Jacorey Shepherd looks good at wideout. Collin Garret is playing well at linebacker. They are all true freshmen. Gonna have to give it another year or two. What good would it do to fire Gill and lose Chuck Long and Reggie Mitchell who recruited Peirson and Miller and those guys would transfer out. The best we look at next year might be 5-7 or 6-6 and thats with Gill, fire him and most likely you get very little accomplished in recruiting. Get a new D-Coordinator next year and lets ride this out and see what happens.

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Bruce Bertsch 2 years, 10 months ago

Sorry, but the "We're young" excuse doesn't fly. Texas plays 18 frosh. They are as young as KU.

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Marc Frey 2 years, 10 months ago

Yes, but TU plays 4 and 5 star players who play in their natural positions. That makes a difference.

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teemvee 2 years, 10 months ago

Yeah, KU freshman should definitely be expected to perform at the same level as Texas freshman do. That's very realistic. I totally agree with you.

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TongiJayhawk 2 years, 10 months ago

Umm.... what kind of recruits are going to come to KU after watching this years team? I can't see to many excited to come play here!!!

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Larry Ewart 2 years, 10 months ago

Kale Pick was never given a fair shot at the position. The team lost the game againest NDSU that night (I was there) not Pick. However, he was sent to the bench never to be heard from again. Webb is nowhere near the athlete Pick is. Do you think Webb could play WR? No! Gill and Long had something personally against him and that is why he no longer at QB. Remember, he committed to Arkansas originally because Houston Nutt thought he had talent. Mangino thought so too! That is why he bugged him to change his mind. Why don' we play him at Wildcat? At least he could throw out of it. It is quite obvious to me that they made their choice and he cannot get it done. Long never called any plays that favored Pick's ability. I would have just liked to have seen the kid given a chance before they ran over him with the bus, that's all.

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troutsee 2 years, 10 months ago

you are absolutely correct. Kale Pick was our best QB and he got tubed because our coach did not have his team prepared to play NDSU. In fact, they have been ill prepared almost for every game.

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hawk316 2 years, 10 months ago

heybluekc...thank you for making some excellent points. I have said it over and over again. Turner Gill and his staff are proven recruiters. If this were not apparent, then I would be more inclined to think about a coaching change. However, with just one recruiting class, they have already brought in lots of exciting young talent. We have to be willing to take some lumps now, be patient and trust that this coaching staff can continue to work their recruiting magic.

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KStoCAHippie 2 years, 10 months ago

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nuleafjhawk 2 years, 10 months ago

I hope you're saying that " tongue in cheek ".

He is obviously not a great football coach. Maybe not even a good one.

But he is DEFINITELY not a disgrace to Christ. It's what some people do - they suffer, but still believe. Anyone can talk about being a good Christian when things are going their way. It's much more difficult to "walk the walk" when the train has derailed.

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Steve Corder 2 years, 10 months ago

You, sir, have no idea what you're talking about. You're right to be upset over the performance of the team, and your opinions about coaching may be shared by most. But you obviously don't know what Jesus would do. If you did then you'd refrain from writing in this manner.

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ZDKC 2 years, 10 months ago

Take your bible and turn the other cheek buddy. Lest ye not be a sinner.

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Andy Tweedy 2 years, 10 months ago

Leave religion out of this. Turner Gill's beliefs and his dedication to his religion are not the problem here. While I don't know him personally, Turner Gill appears on every level to be a good man, a good husband and a good father, not only to his kids but also to his players. He just doesn't appear to be able to coach at this level.

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Mark Currie 2 years, 10 months ago

I agree, this isn't about his religion. The man has a right to his religion. I see him in church frequently and he seems like a great guy. I am NOT defending what is happening with KU's football program. I don't know enough about the total program to comment on it.

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BrockIII 2 years, 10 months ago

The power of Christ compels you.

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Joe Ross 2 years, 10 months ago

This is the funniest thing I have ever seen on this site. Great quote from the Exorcist.

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Shawn Otrimble 2 years, 10 months ago

This is just wrong and an embarrassment to our university! I had gotten to know Mangino while he was here at KU he was always friendly to me. When all of the "stuff" went down, I bought into what everyone wanted because I want whats best for Kansas University. I, a KU alum and my wife a current KU grad student love Kansas University. Enough is enough! I know we are known as a very liberal school but football is not. Having played on a high school team that won state 2 years in a row I can honestly say our coach was the meanest man I have ever met. We need a pit bull as a coach, a coach that has been scorn and has a chip on his shoulder. Who would rather lose body parts than get beat by a rival. Having lived in Texas I can say they live football. To compete there, we need a killer mentality. I believe Leech is the perfect choice for our new coach (if he would come) and our only rule for him is to win. Too much is at stake right now and in 6 years God forbid if our league falls apart. Our football program better be at least be competing. It could be the difference of going to the ACC or Big 10, or Conf USA, mid west (which would severely hurt our great basketball program.) Please don't gamble with our future any more Kansas powers that be. Pay the the money to release Gill now and move us in a direction to show no matter how much we love our basketball, we love it enough to build a quality football program and support it.

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Sean Livingstone 2 years, 10 months ago

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.... if you cannot handle Mangino, you better quit playing football!

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FlintHawk 2 years, 10 months ago

I totally agree. I posted a similar comment early last week and had my head handed to me on the proverbial platter by other posters. Maybe because "girls" don't know anything about football?

The key, imo, is changing the Administration's VIEW of what it takes to have a competitive (notice I didn't even say top-tier) football team. Step 2 is the KU bosses' ACCEPTING that "we need a pit bull as a coach" and a "killer mentality."

Problem is, I don't see this Administration coming around to that way of thinking — and that's what's making me feel so pessimistic. It would require a sea-change on KU's part and, I think, for many fans — who want to win but are unable to accept what it takes to win.

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Jeff Soisson 2 years, 10 months ago

Hire Leach, Hire Leach, Hire Leach, he went to 9 or 10 bowls in 10 years, and he will have a chip on his shoulder!!!! Hire Leach.

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nuleafjhawk 2 years, 10 months ago

One of the best ideas I've heard......................EVER!

We wouldn't even need a scoreboard. Who cares?

Let's bring the FUN back to football.

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Mangino_Maniac 2 years, 10 months ago

Yeah, whatever happened to '100'???

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Andy Tweedy 2 years, 10 months ago

I was thinking that last night. Now, I was all for being patient and a fan of his enthusiasm, but I'm willing to keep posting and admit that I sure look to have been wrong about Gill. Where is 100?

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William James 2 years, 10 months ago

Mangino Maniac- 100 isnt able to get online tonight, but he wanted me to say "Keep bringin em in Coach Gill!"

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LSHawk 2 years, 10 months ago

I used to be a Gill supporter using the very same arguments but not anymore the last 3 games have shown me that not only gill must go but his staff also. As a coaching staff these guys just do not have what it takes to compete in the Big 12. I totally agree now with the Fire Turner Gill crowd. Although it does take more than 2 years to build a good program we should at least shown some progress and that is totally missing. its painfully clear Turner Gill needs to go....

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blackhawkjayhawk 2 years, 10 months ago

First, a note to Keegan...what do you expect the coach to say at a news conference? The players suck? My coaches are idiots? I'm an idiot? No...part of his job is to stay positive and not give up. Let's not blame him for that.

In terms of K's comment that nothing was broken? Mangino was a decent amount of smoke and mirrors. He rode an all-time Kansas great quarterback for most of his wins and was on on a fairly steep downhill slope. Review the past two seasons and tell me how many more games Mangino would have won? No winning seasons, for sure. No bowl games, for sure. So we'd just be talking about firing him and his boorish behavior.

The biggest decision Zenger has ever made is just around the corner. It's not whether or not we need a new coach, it's who that coach is.

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Andy Tweedy 2 years, 10 months ago

I couldn't agree more! Mangino's ship was taking on water at the end, and for Keegan to say otherwise, to me, is laughable. I must say I can't disagree with much else he wrote here, however.

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jhawkrulz 2 years, 10 months ago

Don't forget that Todd Reesing was recruited to KU by the MM Coaching Staff. At less than 6'0", and I believe it was close to 5'9", most would have not placed him as a potential QB in D1. Most at that heigth would not have made it. The coaching staff clearly provided plays and moving the pocket around in order for him to be successful. I haven't seen too many cases where KU moved the pocket or ran some type of play counter to offset the pressure.

i might not have been happy with MM leaving, but I was told that this was to take this program to the next level. I admit MM was mediocre, giving us a bowl game every other year. Having some tough seasons as well as some pretty good ones; however, that is done and gone. I'm looking at right now.

You are right about SZ's decision, and I think it could be scarier than we have right now, if we aren't careful.

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pepper_bar 2 years, 10 months ago

Mangino's last team tanked the season after the basetball team got off scot-free for the campus fights with the football players. The Gill era is an extension of the karma associated with that. Point plankin!

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TongiJayhawk 2 years, 10 months ago

Gill has $6 million coming after Dec. 31 of this year, and his assistants, signed through June 2013, are guaranteed $2.8 million combined.

I bet there are $8.8 million reason TG will be back next year!!

We give crap to MU for going to the SEC, but where exactly would the Jayhawks have ended up if the conference went away?

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BarkingHawk 2 years, 10 months ago

A Jayhawk's Dilemma:

Money is tight. Bills to pay. Winter ahead. Car breaking down. The call comes from the Williams Fund to renew the season football tickets for 2012. Or a call goes out from Zenger to say he needs a few dollars more from alums and supporters, whether season ticket holders or not. What will you do, what will you do?

Clearly, at this point, the only issue is where we come up with the money to buy out this coach and those of his staff that his successor won't retain. His coaching ability and personna are disasters. The nightmare must stop.

Big donors will kick in, but will that be enough or do the rest of us have to do more? (Kind of like the state of the nation, from either angle.) So, are we invested enough in this program to do what it takes? With conference reallignment, a tougher annual schedule, a need for more enrollment and revenues that others (e.g., KSU, MU, et al.) have shown follows sucessful football, no need has ever been so great as now.

When the first call comes from the Williams Fund, my answer already is 'No, not unless this coach is gone."

But, if the call out from Zenger comes, is the answer, "I will commit an extra few bucks to a fund to be used for the buyout, hard as they may be to come by." Does KU football mean that much to me? Does the university mean that much to me? Do I want to be able to say, "I gave" and feel great about being part of the solution.

Even if you have to work extra hours or overtime or forego that dinner and movie on Friday night for a week or two or four, will you give $ 10.00, $ 50.00, $ 100.00, $ 500.00, whatever? Not to go Karl Marx on anybody, but to paraphrase "from each according to his ability, to the buyout fund for whatever it needs." And, let's stare what's happening in the face, we've never needed it more.

I'm in. Anybody else?

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thewayne 2 years, 10 months ago

Yes I'm in, also no more season tickets for me and my family and they are fine with that. Do we send money to SZ, or BGL?

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gongs4ku 2 years, 10 months ago

I don't particularly want Gill to remain our coach, but what do people really want him to say? "We suck. It appears we will always suck, and continue to regress. We are pathetic, poorly coached, talentless nancypantses who have no business on a football field."? How do you recruit or prepare for next week when you're flat out truthful like that? In his shoes, being overly optimistic is a survival mechanism.

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Nick Cole 2 years, 10 months ago

I know Gill is supposed to remain positive, but a man needs to admit when something he is doing isn't working.

He could say "It is clear that some of the things we are trying to teach these kids aren't sinking in. We need to make some changes in order to improve this football team, and we as coaches will make these changes, starting immediately. These losses are an embarrassment to the university. Us coaches are making a commitment to the players, the university, and the fans to change some of our philosophies. We will fix this."

Something along these lines are better than "Our punting has been great!" What a joke.

Fire Gill Rock Chalk

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notigers4me 2 years, 10 months ago

Well I have news for you guys there is something seriously wrong at Kansas University Football. The problem is not a new one in fact it's very old. Like a hundred years old. Kansas barely has a 500 record in football and has only been to one BCS bowl game. This doesn't sound like a winning tradition to me. I believe that we have to go way back to find what's wrong with Kansas Football. It's not Turner Gill, Mark Mangino, Terry Allen, Glen Mason, Don Famborough, Pepper Rogers, or any other coach that I can't seem to remember. It's all of the above. For some reason we just haven't found what it takes to field a successful football program Maybe we are truly just a Basketball school? Maybe the problem has been our Athletic Directors and College Presidents.

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sundancewierdo 2 years, 10 months ago

"As of week 2 of their 2011 season, the program's all-time record is 573–560–58. The Jayhawks, have more wins than high profile programs such as Miami-(FL) (568), Arizona State (551), UCLA (540), Arizona (546), and bitter rival Kansas State (466). Kansas football dates back to 1890 and is one the oldest programs in the nation. Notable former players include Pro Football Hall of famers Gale Sayers, John Riggins, and Mike McCormack, as well as All-Americans John Hadl, Dana Stubblefield, Bobby Douglass, Nolan Cromwell, Aqib Talib, and Anthony Collins. The Jayhawks have won one BCS bowl game, the 2008 Orange Bowl. The team currently plays in Memorial Stadium which seats 50,071 fans. The stadium opened in 1921, making it the seventh oldest college football stadium in the nation." Actually there is quite a history here....

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LSHawk 2 years, 10 months ago

The problem in the past has always been the AD's thinking that basketball will drive our brand, as old Lew once said, but that is not the case anymore. KANSAS must find a way to hire a good coach who is willing to BUILD a good football program because as we have seen with the conference re-alignment stuff, FOOTBALL has become the driving force behind ALL college sports. WE must find a way to build a football program or we will become a second tier university.

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Enoughsaid 2 years, 10 months ago

I don't see why everyone is upset. If you were an unknown coach from back east making 450 K a year and were offered 2 million for the next five years guaranteed, you would jump on it. Gill didn't come here to win foot ball games, he came here to make money and do the required appearances to show good faith.

I would imagine when he leaves with his wheel-barrow full of money he will get a coaching job at the same private school as his buddy Lew Perkins.

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Briscobest 2 years, 10 months ago

My suspicion is that he is secretly trying to 'Suck for Luck'

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Lynn Stuart 2 years, 10 months ago

I am so fed up with this we had the right coach but we ran him out of coaching, ya wanna talk about Mangino's last season? well who could do thier job when you have so many people sticking thier hands in your cookie jar? now as far as talent we have talent but this coaching staff doesnt know how to bring it out or the players are just trying to survive this season without ending thier football careers. So we want leech wow why would he? he would see what we did to Mangino, a damn good coach and you have those that say Mangino rode on reeses horse for all the yrs? well duh isnt that what all coachs do when they find a good qb? get on our hands and knees say we F* up and bring the fat man back Mangino or Leech same type of person and coaching, umm yeah doesnt Oklahoma have the same type of coach as well? bring Mangino back and let him do what he knows how to do and make a rule all the liberals shut up keep your hands out of it so we can start to win again and if a player cries about him speaking mean to him let them go somewhere else so we can get a player that wants to win.

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BarkingHawk 2 years, 10 months ago

Hey, Eurojayhawk -

Not all liberals disagree with what you say here. I'm conservative on some issues, liberal on others. But, I'm totally aboard a liberal interpretation and application of what you are advocating. OK?

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Philip Bowman 2 years, 10 months ago

Absolutely, right on. Too late to hang Perkins for that act of cowardice and greed. But we could send a message by firing the chancellor that supported him. But excuse me for saying this is not a political issue and that "liberals" or whatever you want to call those who don't vote for so-called conservative (who don't want to conserve anything except their own wealth) have every right to have their.say. This is one that didn't agree with Perkins at the time and said so.

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truman 2 years, 10 months ago

We should pray the Big 12 stays together because no other conference will want us. I laugh every time someone mentions going to the Big 10 or PAC . Not going to happen....as long as football is a mess.

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thewayne 2 years, 10 months ago

One plus for any conference to have us is they would get to set new school records when they play us.

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Funhawk 2 years, 10 months ago

Turner Gill was hired to fix something that was broken. The losing streak started when Mangino was the coach. Mangino's last year produced terrible results with players who had taken us to the Orange Bowl two years prior (Meier, Stuckey, Reesing, Briscoe, etc.). The last three years of Mangino's recruiting produced players who are not Big XII caliber, hence their other offers came from teams like Wyoming, Tulsa, and Iowa State. Coaches cannot improve a player's genes. Again last night, did you notice how our players are shorter, smaller, skinnier, and slower, especially on the defense? Unless this year's player is a true freshman, Mangino bought our current players to KU. Don't blame the coach who has only had the chance to bring in one recruiting class. Our true freshmen are a cut above Mangino's last recruits. But, if we never give a new coach more than two years to fix what was broken, who will want to take the KU coaching job when offered? Not a big name football coach when, historically, the KU head football coaching job has been career suicide. When KU football coaches are fired, nobody else wants them ever again.

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jhawkrulz 2 years, 10 months ago

Didn't Bowen go somewhere like Minnesota or something like that. Mangino will be a coach soon somewhere else, once he wants to coach again. Career suicide might be an overstatement. Also I would point out if TG left, he would be coaching in 2-3 years somewhere else (if he wants to).

Last time I checked, MM was good at finding diamonds in the rough and actually making some of them pro prespects.

It seems that TG is good at finding some prospects, but can't seem to coach them on the field. His best 2 recruits didn't even make it through training camp. One is inelgible and one can't seem to find his way down I-70 from Colorado to Lawrence.

I would agree that our players need to be built and coached more than the average 4-5 star recruit going to OU/UT. That coming out of High School, our players will need a red-shirt more than some of the powers. However, I don't think that any of us are consistently expecting to beat those teams every year or even every 5 years. We are talking about beating KSU, ISU, MU, BU, and TTU. Instead we are being beat by 50 against these teams. We aren't even in the same zip code as these teams are.

Do you really see TG as a coach that can teach these recruits how to play football? I don't think he can.

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Daniel Kennamore 2 years, 10 months ago

Anyone who thinks Mangino was a good coach needs to go watch his last series against Mizzou.

With a lead AND the ball with less than 3 mins left in the game, he called three pass plays. He literally could've clinched the game by calling 3 running play and letting the clock run, but he chose to make an idiotic series of incomplete passes...giving Mizzou the ball back with plenty of time for the game-winning touchdown.

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number1jayhawker 2 years, 10 months ago

We were up 39-36. Not defending Mangino here, but the OC named Wariner took the blame for the playcalling. The dagger was a qb draw on 3rd down in which Todd was tackled for a safety. All mizzou needed then, because of the added 2 points, was kick a FG for the win. 41-39

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Steve Brown 2 years, 10 months ago

Not 3 minutes rather 1:14 1st down, MU Out of timeouts.

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jhawkjjm 2 years, 10 months ago

Wrong. A first down and that game is over. Had the receiver (Meier?) not slipped on 2nd down, he has the first and the game is over. What everyone seems to also forget is that during that 7 game losing streak, KU wasn't being blown out. TT was tied in the 4th quarter. You already mentioned MU. KState was a close game.

The fact is that under Gill this team is not tough, undisciplined, and not competitive. They are a complete embarrassment to the University.

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BPSkelly 2 years, 10 months ago

We're simply at a point in time in the history of the University and its atheletic department where we simply cannot afford to let Gill take this down any farther. Period.

We are THE worst BCS conference team. I dont think there is a close second.

One cant make the "we're slowly improving" argument. Anyone who's watched any stretch of games this year sees that is not the case. It's easier to make the case that its actually getting worse.

And here's the kicker to... its not like Jayhawk fans "expectations" are all that pie in the sky. Contend for bowl games (any of them) most years and most folks around here would be satisfied. Plus, that would pay the bills. I understand the odds of the stars aligning for another BCS bowl run arent just improbable -- likely damn near impossible. Im comfortable with that.

Im not comfortable with the fact that going 3-6 in conference seems like trying to climb Mt. Everest. It should not be. But with this current team and staff, it would be like Ali's "im gonna shock the world". Not good.

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jhawkrulz 2 years, 10 months ago

Like you are saying, most of us would be happy with a 3-6 record in conference, especially if one or two of those wins were against MU or KSU; however, with the coaching staff we have, I think 2-7 will be the best we could ever hope for, and that is with miracle come backs like against CU. Heading for 1-16 under two years with TG.

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JJHawq 2 years, 10 months ago

The money issue is a big problem - usual sources are tapped out from big lews fund raising efforts.

If we get the money raised - you also have to raise money for the new coach - and that coach needs to be a bigger name to give us any chance to build a program.

We need to do what KSU did in basketball - hire a bob huggins. It would bring excitement to the stands and to recruiting. We need that energy in the stands that another no-name coach cant bring.

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swkansashawk 2 years, 10 months ago

2 words for you....Butch Davis.

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holbigmac 2 years, 10 months ago

"Mr. Zenger, tear down this coach!"

Ronald Reagan

"Bring KU back!"

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Kirk 2 years, 10 months ago

This article says it all.

I seems like Gill has been here for years and years. I'm so sick of this crap.

Just three or four years ago, I felt great about KU football and where it was headed. We'd invested in top flight facilities, we were paying our coaches competitive salaries, and we were fighting and winning football games.

Before every game, I actually felt like we might win this one.

We competed, even when we lost.

And now, every game, I feel absolutely sure not only that we're going to lose, but also that the opponent is going to set some gaudy records for their school or perhaps for the NCAA that will be reported nationwide week after week after week.

And still, week after week, I hear Gill and his staff say that we need to "continue to improve" and "keep getting better". Do they have any idea that we're NOT improving in the slightest?

When Gill pointed to our great punting statistic as evidence for (what he things is) meaningful improvement, I knew...this guy has no perspective whatsoever.

Gill and his staff are like a tumor that has to be removed ASAP.

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BarkingHawk 2 years, 10 months ago

Re the money side of things, I repeat:

BarkingHawk(anonymous) says…

A Jayhawk's Dilemma:

Money is tight. Bills to pay. Winter ahead. Car breaking down. The call comes from the Williams Fund to renew the season football tickets for 2012. Or a call goes out from Zenger to say he needs a few dollars more from alums and supporters, whether season ticket holders or not. What will you do, what will you do?

Clearly, at this point, the only issue is where we come up with the money to buy out this coach and those of his staff that his successor won't retain. His coaching ability and personna are disasters. The nightmare must stop.

Big donors will kick in, but will that be enough or do the rest of us have to do more? (Kind of like the state of the nation, from either angle.) So, are we invested enough in this program to do what it takes? With conference reallignment, a tougher annual schedule, a need for more enrollment and revenues that others (e.g., KSU, MU, et al.) have shown follows sucessful football, no need has ever been so great as now.

When the first call comes from the Williams Fund, my answer already is 'No, not unless this coach is gone."

But, if the call out from Zenger comes, is the answer, "I will commit an extra few bucks to a fund to be used for the buyout, hard as they may be to come by." Does KU football mean that much to me? Does the university mean that much to me? Do I want to be able to say, "I gave" and feel great about being part of the solution.

Even if you have to work extra hours or overtime or forego that dinner and movie on Friday night for a week or two or four, will you give $ 10.00, $ 50.00, $ 100.00, $ 500.00, whatever? Not to go Karl Marx on anybody, but to paraphrase "from each according to his ability, to the buyout fund for whatever it needs." And, let's stare what's happening in the face, we've never needed it more.

I'm in. Anybody else?

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Andy Tweedy 2 years, 10 months ago

I feel like Colorado the last couple years of Hawkins' reign. That dude was a disaster but the university couldn't afford to get rid of him. Will there be enough money to change coaches?

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Larry Ewart 2 years, 10 months ago

When Perkins made the decision to not hire Fulmer(who he interviewed in NY) and hire Gill I vowed to change my allegiance to some other program. But, being a Jayhawk fan for 50 years now I just still believe we can be competitive and so here I am waiting for another turnaround. This team is not anywhere near Terry Allen's teams they are much worse. Closer to Valensente teams. Nevertheless, there is no way we Fire Gill and pay him $6million and then the rest of the staff $2.8million that is something that the Athletic Department cannot justify. We likely will have to give him one more year with a whole new staff. There is no other way. Unless Anschutz and his cronies pony up the money! Remember, this is a business or have all of you not been paying attention to all the conference realignment! He deserves to go but the reality of it all is we cannot afford it.

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thewayne 2 years, 10 months ago

Can you please tell us where the money is then? Another article says the athletic department is over 58 million in debt already, so all wise sir please enlighten us. You got a secret stash to pay for it?

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jhawkrulz 2 years, 10 months ago

The article was very misleading. We are $58 MM in debt with a service of about $2.5 MM/year, very easy to manage when you are making about $65-70 MM a year and that doesn't include the increase in revenue from our recent TV deal and the game on Jayhawk TV yesterday.

The money is very easily obtained without even going to the bank. You see we had two teams leave the conference this year. And two last year. NU gave up just shy of $10MM and CU left with just under $7 MM. TAM and MU are leaving under different terms these terms will hurt them because they had signed the TV deal. Their exit fees will be double the others. I would put the exit fees in the neighborhood of $17-24 MM, with TAM being near the high end and MU actually in the middle of the pack. We actually might get a small settlement from the SEC for taking a second team after it agreed after TAM left that they wouldn't poach another team. So doing the numbers So $17/10 and $37/8 is equal $1.7 + $4.4 MM imagine that $6.1MM a magic number to payout the coach. I'm not totally thrilled that all of that money will go to getting rid of someone we never should have hired, but let's not say the money isn't there. In addition, the contract for the new tv deal will go from about $10 MM to about $20 MM and our Tier 3 deal just went from about $5MM to about $8 MM.
So we use to make about $15MM per year from TV rights and now we are going to be making about $28MM and some say it could get closer to $31MM with items like the Jayhawk TV/Longhorn games being televised.

Long story short, the money is there.

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thewayne 2 years, 10 months ago

Sold... You win. Thanks for the info. In that case I wish they would just fire him already, I can't see how bringing in a coach, any coach mid season could be any worse than what's happening now.

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jayhawk2062 2 years, 10 months ago

jayhawk2062(anonymous) says…

I was at the game in Austin and it was an absolute embarrassment in every way possible.

Here are the STATS of futility under Turner Gill: (Stats begin 2010 - 20 games)

-Given up 40 points or more 11 times

-Given up 50 points or more 5 times

-Given up 60 points or more 1 time

-Given up 70 points 1 one time

-Lost by 21 points or more 10 times out of 15 losses

-Scored 24 points or less as a team in 13 of the 20 total games

-First shutout loss since 2002 (Coach Mangino's 1st year against K-State)

-Lost to FCS team (1st time since 1982)

  • 1-12 record in Big 12 games (0-12 against current Big 12 members)

  • Average Score in big 12 games: 46 -14.....being beaten by an avg of 32 per game!

-Overall Record of 5-15

-Attendance at or below 40,000, 5 times in 2 years. Before 2010, last time attendance at a home game was below 40,000.......was in 2006 against Colorado!!!!

This is a joke. It's worse than anything Terry Allen put together. They must axe him after the Missouri game. Period. I say save money and hire a great/upcoming assistant from a winning program (i.e. Mark Mangino) or actually give 2 to 2.5 million to a real coach with a track record of bowl games and winning (i.e. Mike Leach).

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jhawkrulz 2 years, 10 months ago

Small correction, but isn't meant to distract from your very important message. 0-11 against current Big 12 members, both Colorado and Nebraska left, so 1 win and 1 loss went away.

Other than that very well put. If you had done penalties, turnover battle, and yards given up/yards gained, I'm sure they would be equally as horrible. Thanks for the information.

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Jeff Soisson 2 years, 10 months ago

Fire Gill, Hire Leach-he has a grudge and he would be great!!!!!

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Lloyd Kinnison 2 years, 10 months ago

Did anyone watch the coaching on the sidelines? The Texas Coach Brown mentored players as they left or entered the field of play. Did you watch Gill? Basically stood on the sidelines with arms crossed! The game stats leads one to assume there was apparently little coaching during the week. Mr. Gill' s comments after the game provide insite as to the possible reasons for this performance.

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jhawkrulz 2 years, 10 months ago

Although I didn't get to watch the game, I saw someone reference that towards the end of the game when one of the receivers dropped a very catchable pass, TG gave him a High Five. Aren't you supposed to reward good things...oh wait..I got confused that isn't a good thing. I've been trying to think the opposite of things to make it seem like we are doing good.

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BlackVelvet 2 years, 10 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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rukidding 2 years, 10 months ago

This is a perfect negative storm.

First, it takes more than a year are two to build a program. KU fan's you just want to jump up and down and shout about how wonderful your team looks. The opportunity to brag. It takes time to build a program. What do you want? A successful Football Team or a successful Football Program? Look at your 2 deep. I'm just old enough to remember Duke fans absolutely wanting coach K out.

Secondly, team loses their D-coor. before the season starts. Odd. Unforseen. Sad.

Thirdly, New AD's. AD's can only be about rah, rah. If people will rah, rah then they will give you $ $. They are not about building an Athletic Program. It's not different from any other business. Have patience with the decisions that are made. Yours and others.

Forth, KU fan (which I am). Our history of football success is not very good but we get a coach who is surrounded by Football success and we are ready to fire him after 1 1/2 years. That's what has always been the problem here. Not patience, no plan, or let's find a way to cheat the system.

If truly having a successful program is what we want here, slow down, and have some patience. Give the man 3 to 4 years, whats waiting really going to hurt. Our wonderful Football history. Not.

Lastly, this program could be doomed by all the fenge and negative unwell wishes that have been around this program for 40+ years. The AD must, and I stress must fight off the temptation to listen to those who wish to forward their own personal agendas.

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Micky Baker 2 years, 10 months ago

The program was being built until Gill got here.

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Micky Baker 2 years, 10 months ago

Football Success? Gill had a losing record in the MAC! From 1990 through 2008, KU has had success more often than any other time during its history against legit teams that KU competed with. We're not even competing with Gill. We're getting completely slaughtered on 85% of the plays on the field.

Kansas does actually have a winning record all time in Football. We just don't have a coach with what it takes in the big boy leagues to succeed.

I'd be okay with 7-5 for 3 years straight if we beat K-State 2 of three and had a win against Texas and Oklahoma out of three tries. That would be progress.

These kids are capable of playing a lot better than they are, and the reason they aren't is because the coaches aren't allowing them to get better. There is no genuine attempts by this coaching staff to teach football to these kids.

A person off the street could by the book "Coaching Football for Dummies" and do a better job than Gill is. FUNDAMENTALS are not noticeable on this team and the team lacks discipline. That is a direct reflection on the coaching staff.

If this had been Turner's first year and he inherited what Glen Mason did, I wouldn't be on Gill or anyone. The fact of the matter is, Gill inherited much better athletes than Mason did. Mason could take a 2 star athlete or a 3 star athlete and turn him into a Heisman Candidate, June Henely. Mark Williams had one heck of year in 1995. Isaac Byrd (two sport star). Dorian Brew. LT. Levine.

Bowl Wins against BYU and UCLA, granted, spread apart but legit teams with NFL talent like Ty Detmer at BYU.

Terry Allen set us back a little, but nothing like Gill is doing now. Mangino went Bowling his second season. Had some growing pains, and then went to three straight bowls.

Ft. Worth Bowl Orange Bowl Sun Bowl

And another Bowl he lost, but he won 3 of em and lost one to a guy that is the starting the QB for the San Diego Chargers.

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rukidding 2 years, 10 months ago

jayhawkintx1973: You see this is why KU will never get it right. Lies, mistruths, and delusional behavior. Facts: KU record since 1970 (193-257) not include probation loss games since start of Glen Mason era (121-146)

Last 53 years 2 coaches with a greater than .500 record.

Coaches Tenure since 1970: Bud Moore (4) Don Fambough (8) Mike Gottfried (3) Bob Valesente (2) Glen Mason (9) Terry Allen (5) Mark Mangino (8)

It took Mangino 7 years to get to a overal winning record. Even then the conference wasn't as stacked offense as it is now.

BTW, it took KU 118 years to go to back to back Bowls games. They've it once. Never gone 3 yrs. in a row.

Question again: Do you want a TEAM or a PROGRAM?

One of them take more than 2 years.

"I'm not saying, I'm just saying."

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squawkhawk 2 years, 10 months ago

Maybe KU should move to the Big East. At least we'd continue to dominate in BB and no one would care about FB.

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troutsee 2 years, 10 months ago

Gill must go. He does not have what it takes. That is obvious. I don't care if Mangino left the cupboard void of a good QB or good linemen. Still, this team simply is not prepared week in and week out. As one of the posters above said, it simply is not fun going to a game that we are sure we are going to lose and lose badly. ISU will clean our clock as will the rest of the teams on our schedule. Unfortunately, becasue of the bucks involved he may be here another year. I have bought 12 season tickets for my family for years. Next year that is going down to 3 and my contribution to the Williams Fund will depend on whether we have Gill for a coach or not. If we still have him, I will give zero.

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Mike Kendall 2 years, 10 months ago

With Iowa State upending Texas Tech last week, it will be another sorry trip to Ames, unfortunately. Gill just doesn't have it. I have a feeling his days are numbered as the head coach for the Jayhawks.

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Shawn Otrimble 2 years, 10 months ago

I strongly disagree with RUKidding's coments. When Glen Mason left we some momentum and I thought we would hire a good coach and they brought in a unknown "Terry Allen". I thought well they must know more about football than I, so he must be good. WRONG. Now we built back some momentum with Mangino, Fired him for whatever the reasons may be, but have the opportunity to at least talk to some high profile coaches for the job. Then again we get a no-name coach Turner Gill and here we are at year 2 getting worse. We need to realize from our mistakes we are throwing away money. 2 examples: K-state spent the money on a proven winner in Bill SynderIN his first tenure look what that did for the University and the town. Both have grown leaps and bounds. Look at Mizzu and Pinkle, his hire and winning, has the delusional fans believing they can compete in the SEC. Leech is our perfect hire, he has proven he can recruit in Texas and that he can play with the big boys. You know he's already pissed at the Big 12 so lets throw him some big money and a long term deal and say attack! The stands would be full and who knows what having a proven coach could do for the city of Lawrence in 10 years. We have to stop making the same mistakes over and over.

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Micky Baker 2 years, 10 months ago

If Turner Gill isn't fired by 8pm Monday, October 31st, we can forget about having a chance at hiring a good coach during the off season. Arizona or Arizona State is already talking to Mike Leach. Who else is out there that could be hired and here by Tuesday morning? We're going to miss out on an opportunity to pick up a Coach that will get these kids playing the way they are capable of playing.

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Kirk 2 years, 10 months ago

We can't keep Gill another year unless we want to look like "a basketball school" forever, and end up in a crummy conference.

KU needs to build on the great investments it has made so far in creating a winning football program: the state of the art facilities, and the competitive salaries.

No more hiring mediocre (at best) head coaches. Those days are over. No more following gains in momentum (Mason, Mangino) with experiments in coaching competence just because they seem like nice guys (you know who.)

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rukidding 2 years, 10 months ago

jayhawkintx1973: You see this is why KU will never get it right. Lies, mistruths, and delusional behavior. Facts: KU record since 1970 (193-257) not include probation loss games since start of Glen Mason era (121-146)

Last 53 years 2 coaches with a greater than .500 record.

Coaches Tenure since 1970: Bud Moore (4) Don Fambough (8) Mike Gottfried (3) Bob Valesente (2) Glen Mason (9) Terry Allen (5) Mark Mangino (8)

It took Mangino 7 years to get to a overal winning record. Even then the conference wasn't as stacked offense as it is now.

BTW, it took KU 118 years to go to back to back Bowls games. They've it once. Never gone 3 yrs. in a row.

Question again: Do you want a TEAM or a PROGRAM?

One of them take more than 2 years.

"I'm not saying, I'm just saying."

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Geekinout 2 years, 10 months ago

Anyone ever notice how most coaches on the sidelines have a (cheat) sheet of plays or personnel chart in their hands during the game? Regardless, offensive or defensive minded head coaches? T.G. has nothing but a blank emotionless expression. NOT the type of coach that shows he's even part of the game! We pay $2 mil a year for a coach that brings nothing to the table!

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