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Saturday, October 22, 2011

Keegan

Sheahon Zenger’s challenge: Find money to make coaching change

Kansas head coach Turner Gill is escorted by security from the field following the Jayhawks' 59-21 loss to rival Kansas State on Saturday, Oct. 22, 2011 at Kivisto Field.

Kansas head coach Turner Gill is escorted by security from the field following the Jayhawks' 59-21 loss to rival Kansas State on Saturday, Oct. 22, 2011 at Kivisto Field.

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Podcast episode

Press Conferences & Post-Game Interviews

KU coach Turner Gill

Kansas coach Turner Gill talks to reporters following the Jayhawks' 59-21 loss to Kansas State on Oct. 22, 2011.

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Sheahon Zenger, this is your mission: Find a way to get the Kansas University athletic department out of the financial pressure your predecessor, Lew Perkins, put it in, in part because he believed in giving coaches everything they needed to succeed with little regard for how much it cost.

Perkins brought KU’s fundraising into the 21st century, upgraded facilities and signed many coaches to one-sided contracts that paid them far too much money.

Turner Gill was earning $450,000 per year at University at Buffalo, where he raised a national embarrassment of a football program to respectability. Perkins didn’t raise Gill’s salary to $1 million. He gave him $2 million per year and guaranteed all five years.

Ask yourself this question: Have you ever known anybody in any industry who said no to an offer that more than doubles his or her salary? Didn’t think so. Gill, no doubt, would have taken $1 million a year.

Perkins put too much emphasis on image, believing that if he paid a coach $2 million, the coach would be perceived as a $2 million coach, which would help in raising money, landing recruits and generating a national buzz.

In the wake of the latest embarrassment for a football program that had been raised to respectability by Gill’s predecessor, Saturday’s 59-21 loss to undefeated Kansas State left many wondering: So how does Zenger get out of this pickle?

Irony of all ironies, hated rival Missouri could help out the Kansas football program in its moment of desperate need.

Should Missouri, as expected, bolt the Big 12 along with Texas A&M, the two SEC-bound schools will pay exit fees that will be split among the eight remaining conference members. A combined fee of $32 million is as good a guess as any. That’s $4 million per member. Gill has $6 million left on his contract after this season.

A pool of donors will be counted on to come up with the rest. If they do, that’s a sign they won’t make Zenger pay for Perkins’ excesses.

But when? Nothing will happen during the season because mid-season moves, especially with classy coaches, lack class.

Zenger made it clear in a postgame statement that this mess will be fixed, and the only logical way to interpret that is that if Gill doesn’t fix it himself in the remaining five weeks of the season, the AD will by replacing the football coach.

The scripts in four of the past five weeks (Georgia Tech, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Kansas State) varied little: Decent first half. The door viciously slammed on KU’s fingers in the third quarter. Oklahoma State varied, dominating the Jayhawks immediately and mercifully slamming on the brakes before halftime.

The third-quarter score the past five weeks: Opponents 80, Kansas 7. That sort of a statistic happens in big-time sports about as often as a school helps its most hated rival to dig itself out of a crater.

With each third-quarter disappearing act, more and more embarrassed boosters have vowed to stop donating to the athletic department if either a drastic change in performance or in the coach himself doesn’t take place.

Behind the scenes, a prominent, highly respected alum has tried to calculate the cost of not replacing the coach (withheld donations, projected decline in ticket sales, etc.) to compare it to the cost of replacing him. Clearly, the wheels are in motion for a change.

If Gill’s team doesn’t right itself and a change is made, nobody expects a complete overhaul in the coaching staff, as happened when Mark Mangino was bounced for being an ornery football coach. (Remember when ornery football coach was considered a redundancy? I do.)

Running backs coach Reggie Mitchell is among the nation’s best recruiters. Receivers coach David Beaty demands attention to detail from his players and recruits the heck out of the Dallas Metroplex. Offensive coordinator Chuck Long has a personality and knowledge well-suited for developing young quarterbacks. Just about everywhere he goes, offensive line coach J.B. Grimes upgrades the program’s running game.

Bill Snyder, in the midst of his second resurrection act, has his Wildcats welcoming unbeaten Oklahoma into Manhattan. Clearly, Snyder sees football as few ever have. He even knows how to look into the future. His complimentary words had a ring of sincerity to them, so it should come as no surprise that he was not talking about KU’s defense or special teams.

“The University of Kansas is a very fine offensive football team,” Snyder said. “They have good balance in their offense and they can throw it and run it. They have good offensive linemen. I like those backs and I think that quarterback (Jordan Webb) is a poised young guy. They are going to get better and better because they have some talent on that side, but right now they are a young football team.”

Inexperience isn’t an excuse for a quick barrage of defensive and special teams blunders: allowing a 48-yard pass play on the final play from scrimmage of the first half, a 97-yard kick return for a touchdown on the first play of the second half, and committing three penalties before the first snap of the second half.

It’s difficult to fathom a football team that can cram that much undisciplined slop into 32 seconds of game clock can right itself in five weeks.

Comments

mustlehustle 2 years, 5 months ago

Keegs...the bigger challenge is the "search committee" that was assembled that perceived Gill and Zenger the proverbial best of the bunch! It appears there objective was to pick the lowest hanging fruit available.

Meanwhile, please convey to anyone you may know on this "crack" team assembled and pass along the names of "Chad Morris" and "Mike Leach." Of course I realize they're both offensive minded coaches. The simple minds will demand we need a "defensive minded" coach. The issue is attracting a coach that is well-connected throughout the high schools in Texas. Its where the OUs and UTs have made their bones over the years.

If you hire either of these coaches, it immediately puts you in "politically" within the circles of high school coaches throughtout Texas, and both have proven they bring a very successful and electric brand of football to the field. I assure you the regard both of these coaches enjoy, will bring with them the very best staff, including a defensive coordinator.

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Nancy Borst 2 years, 5 months ago

At this point, almost anyone would be an improvement if he has a pulse. Gill is EMOTIONLESS. Face it. We could simply rewind and play the tape from every postgame press conference this year for our remaining games. "It's just one game." "We're showing steady improvement."

Gag me. Get pissed. Yell. Call your team out. Oh, wait. That might upset a player. God forbid we get angry about losing because after all, the most important thing is that we "believe."

I'm going to go puke now.

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jaybate 2 years, 5 months ago

Dick Butkus was unusual only because of how much physical talent he had. His personality is basically indistinguishable from hundreds of college and professional line backers.

Starting next season, Gill will go out and get the next graduating flock of crazies and these will make a barely adequate defense next year.

Fourth year, the offensive linemen will be fully matured, the skill players that survive will be seasoned, and the first flock of crazies on defense will have been fully beefed up, and there will be a second crop of crazies that will be attracted because they meet the first crop of crazies already at KU.

Crazy defensive players are attracted to other crazy defensive players. They like to hang out with them. They like to drink with them. They like to put fists through walls with them and run through doors with them and turn over cars with them and raise lethal exotic animals together.

Defensive players are easy to recognize and easy to recruit.

They don't care even a little about tradition.

To land then all you have to do is show them other crazies like themselves, and say, "Here we believe hitting running backs so hard their spleens squirt up and out of the earholes of their helmets."

Oh, and there is one more magic phrase: *Unless you pull a knife, or a gun, on a player in a game, you will not be disciplined for any any infraction on the field. We believe penalties are part of the game."

Gill will happily say these very things this off-season, after spending the last two seasons laboriously appealing to the selfish reason and anal narcissism of offensive players.

Gill will say things like:

"The only thing we don't allow defensive players to do is eat the offensive players."

"I am a Christian, but I understand that ritual sacrifices have their place defense."

"I have waited all my life to see a defensive player actually tear a leg off of a running back."

"I like my strong safeties to drive their helmets up under the sternum and into the thoracic cavities of wide receivers that come across the middle."

"If you can figure out how to water board an offensive player in a dog pile, you will letter."

"I want defensive players willing to hit a blind dog just for fun."

Gill will be okay, if KU lets him get through this season.

There is no reason for Gill to waste any time on specialty teams yet this season. Specialty teams are only good when they are full of man eating line backers and head hunting strong safeties of the kind he will start recruiting this season.

Gill, after all, has been stalked by many vicious defensive players in his career as a QB. He has looked them in the eye many times and seen them snarling and snorting in hopes of trying to knock his eyeballs out into the cheap seats. He knows what they like to hear.

"At training table, we serve quarterback brains every Wednesday."

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jaybate 2 years, 5 months ago

Turner Gill is on track in a four year program.

Second years are often come downs, when you build the offense first.

I hate football, but I hate seeing a man lynched, black or white, when he is following a feasible rebuilding plan and he's taking the lumps to do it the right way.

It takes 3-4 years to build an offense, because, unless you are a top program and get your pick of the best linemen, lesser offensive line talent takes along time to bulk up and master skills and conditioning.

Snyder mastered the obvious for people. Gill has the fetus of a good offensive organism next season, or the following season. He's also got some skill players.

What he lacks are defensive players.

In Gill's approach, which is one historically proven way to do it, not the only way, but one way, the reasoning goes you can throw a adequate defense together in one year and a good one takes two.

Defensive lines and backers are long on instinct, athleticism, and borderline anti-social aggressiveness.

Offensive players are long on bulk, technique, and teeth gritting stick to it-iveness.

Defensive coaches have to teach defensive players to read lots of keys, but but those can be learned in a season, if they have the other prerequisites.

Bottom line defensive coordinators seek the equivalent of blooded sharks. Eleven angry orca. Maybe hungry Pirahna would be a better fish metaphor. They are guys that would rather hit someone than have sex with a good looking woman, and they like sex a lot.

Off the field, linebackers come in two kinds: sane, or crazy. But on the field, they are all homocidal maniacs masquerading as athletes. They are totally, unconditionally, mouth foaming, howling mad on the field.

Any D1 defensive coordinator could build at least a competent defensive line backing corp, if he were simply allowed to recruit the Big Top in Leavenworth. This is a fact.

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optimist 2 years, 5 months ago

It seems we all have short memories. Mangino (regarded as probably the most successful coach KU has had) went 2-10 in his first season, 6-7 in his second (primarily due to bringing in a number of JuCo's and a weak Big 12 schedule), and in his third he went 4-7. I wonder if we would have witnessed the Hawks win the 2008 Orange Bowl if the nay sayers had come out against him this way? Oh wait, they did. I'm glad smarter and more patient people were making decisions then.

Gill is doing things a little differently. He has chosen to build a program (that was short on talent when he arrived) with young recruits rather than with JuCo transfers. Consequently this team is about as young as it gets. The defense is adjusting to a new scheme as a result of an unplanned coaching change right before the start of the season and a lack of depth where it's needed most. I would also like to point out that in his two first seasons Gill has had as tough a Big 12 schedule as he could have expected and he has taken on at least on real non-conference opponent which Mangino really didn't do.

What Gill has done well is attract quality, talented young men to Kansas. I would go so far as to say that overall the talent he has brought to Lawrence exceeds that which Mangino brought. We have seen significant development and improvement on offensively and I am confident that another year should bring another stable of solid talent to Lawrence and an improved defense.

I think we need to consider who will take this job if we don't give this coach a fair shot after how the University conducted itself in terminating its relationship with Coach Mangino. Gill deserves another year before we should pass judgment on him.

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Randy Maxwell 2 years, 5 months ago

Zenger will not have the guts to fire a black coach. He will take hell for it when all the enablers play the race card as the reason for his firing.

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Brak 2 years, 5 months ago

Its funny that most of you Fire Gill! bandwagoners were probably the same ones that were yelling Fire Mangino! after it took him 4 years to establish a winning season, and you now hail him a god because of one season.

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Joe Ross 2 years, 5 months ago

hihawk. per comments above, it is no point in arguing with Gill supporters. It is the only thing more futile than the defenses he puts on the field.

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hihawk 2 years, 5 months ago

RCJ, I think by all the postings that you are the only ignorant fan here

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Chris Bruning 2 years, 5 months ago

FU*CK you all.........keep gill, building a joke for players team that mangina left behind doesnt get fixed in one or two years......who are the stars on the team???? Freshman that gill brought in.....ignorant fans

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2 years, 5 months ago

He's tanned, rested and ready. Mangino for head coach.

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2 years, 5 months ago

He's tanned, rested and ready. Mangino for head coach.

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Joe Ross 2 years, 5 months ago

Coach Gill said in the post-game that players aren't doing what they're supposed to do. If they are out of position that's COACHING issue. Don't like the defensive scheme? That's a COACHING issue. Want to correct a player's performance so he doesn't make the same mistake again? That's a COACHING issue. Need new personnel to play the position to get the right coverage? That's a COACHING issue. So my question is why these coaching issues continue to impact the game so negatively on such a regular basis. Hmm...and I'm just wondering out loud to myself, "Maybe the coach IS the coaching issue."

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Dan Harris 2 years, 5 months ago

Fire Gill-Hire Leach Fire Gill-Hire Leach Fire Gill-Hire Leach Fire Gill Hire Leach Fire Gill-Hire Leach Oh by the way I think we should fire Gill and hire Leach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Joe Ross 2 years, 5 months ago

I agree, bville. You've probably made the best point that isn't being talked about. If there's no coach out there who possesses both a credible resume AND an interest in Kansas, Zenger would probably do well to give Gill another year to coach. While the thought sickens me of seeing him on the sidelines one more year, it would have two positives. One, it would reduce the amount that would be required to buy out Gill. And two, if no good coach were out there, it would give us time to find one.

I personally think Mangino is the man for Kansas and with a new AD it could work. But because a smear campaign was conducted against him, I realize Mangino may have a hard time ever getting back to Kansas. In any event, we agree that if Zenger is not looking at other coaches right now, then he is NOT worth his salt as an AD. Even as a contingency, he needs to be conducting a search...

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Randy Bombardier 2 years, 5 months ago

I like the idea of the Ransom Rambler. I don't like the idea of Leach. Too much baggage. We are not desperate. I like the idea of an interim for a season or so, then make a thorough search using a head-hunter. Long would be okay as an interim. Need a definite DC. If not Cromwell there might be a few Kansas boys who played for KSU that might be interested such as Venables, Steve Grogan. Gary Patterson? But, I still think you will make the job more attractive if you give Gill more time. The quicker we change horses, the more skiddish the horses become. Still think he would hold himself accountable to his own standards and would resign if he is not doing what he said he would do. That will make it so much easier to get a big name. How about Pinkel. He will be available in about three years after the SEC gets done with him. If he is smart, he might even take the job now so he doesn't have to live with the consequences of some delusional Tigger fans.

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bville_hawk 2 years, 5 months ago

Someone mentioned Nolan Cromwell. After a couple years at Texas AM Nolan is back in the NFL as receivers coach with the Rams. I think he still has an interest in KU football, but his college experience resume is much shorter than TG's. He is definitely someone that SZ should visit with regarding suggestions for potential candidates.

I think you can bet your sweet ass that SZ is working hard to find out who's out there. That would seem a logical first step. Then you go to your high-roller list and say "here's who we could get and this is what it is gonna cost." THEN you make the decision to pull the plug on this nightmare.

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Joe Ross 2 years, 5 months ago

The upside of coaching at Kansas. As a coach, you can only improve on what Gill has accomplished (I used the term loosely), and so it would be a resume builder if you could get Kansas to a bowl. A lot of young talented coaches might find this an attractive prospect whereas I think a lot of older coaches are more concerned about leaving a legacy. His youth might mean security for Kansas in the long-term if we treat him well and he sticks around. Zenger should ALREADY be working on finding out who's out there. Id be surprised if he isn't at least doing a private canvassing of coaches.

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CheneyHawk 2 years, 5 months ago

Oh yea, Lew Perkins did his best to kill Wichita State and now KU FB. We Kansans have had our fill of East Coast expertise. The Conn Don gift that keeps on giving. Thank$ a million, Lew....(Ok, I"m preaching to the choir....)

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CheneyHawk 2 years, 5 months ago

I'ts like we're stuck in a Ron Prince/penalty box/twilight zone and no quick relief. I feel for these kids trying to make it work in this program.

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manginorh00lz 2 years, 5 months ago

Attention fossils: there is a "reply" button next to every post on this site. Use it.

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MorganR 2 years, 5 months ago

Lol, I will leave that to you. Since I wasn't part of the vetting process for coach Gill, I certainly can't criticize those involved. I should have also mentioned that I would like a coach that graduates its athletes.

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Scut Farkus 2 years, 5 months ago

Can I cast aspersions on Lew? He's the one who got us into this mess.

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MorganR 2 years, 5 months ago

I urge patience and deference to the KU football players. I agree the lack of success in football is very disappointing but I also agree with commenters such as “Cosmic" and "Danmoore." If you fire coach Gill, shouldn't you have a high quality replacement that has all but agreed to accept the job? Given KU's track record of getting rid of coaches after two years or so, would some quality coaches be dissuaded from accepting the job? I worry about KU's reputation for firing coaches without giving them adequate time to build their teams.
I admire coach Gill on a personal basis and want him to succeed. .
My son noted that Notre Dame, Michigan, and others have found out that success at one school may not transfer to another school. He noted coach Tubberville's previous team (a southern team) was glad to get rid of him. A few years ago, KU was interested in Dennis Franchione (sp) that coached at Pittsburg State and other schools. After he left Alabama and went to Texas A&M, A&M couldn't get rid of him soon enough.
If KU does seek a new coach, in addition to success as a criterion, I hope they will avoid coaches that are abusive to their players or have engaged in NCAA rules violations (such as the former Ohio State coach), Unfortunately, the list of such coaches that survive these tests. and are interested in KU, may be a very short list. I also urge that we be kind and thoughtful and not cast aspersions on the character or capabilities of coach Gill, the Chancellor, or the Athletic Director.

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Varlo52 2 years, 5 months ago

I really for sorry for such non-football schools as Yale, Harvard, U of Chicago, etc. nd they are not even "just hoop schools."

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Eric Dawson 2 years, 5 months ago

(Edited and reposted from a reply buried above. If you've already read it, thanks).

The attitude that "KU will never be a football school" has to change, and will only change if the Chancellor and the AD make it a point and drive that point home again and again and again with their actions.

If you check the record books, KU has had some pretty good years in football in the past. Becoming a "football" school can be done, as long as the leadership keeps it a priority and doesn't assume "we've fixed that" and move on as soon as the team gets good again.

If that attitude does not change and the Big 12 should come to an end 6 years down the road, KU will be on the outside looking in, and that will impact our precious hoops program as well. Do not delude yourselves -- without membership in a nationally relevant BCS conference, all KU athletics, even hoops, will go down hill. The best HS players want to play the best College players, and 90% of them will be going to BCS conference schools. You think Self is not recruiting well now, wait until he has to recruit without the benefit of a BCS conference cachet behind him. It would be the one thing I can think of that would cause him to seriously consider ending his career at OSU instead of KU.

So wake up, people! You don't care about football?

Fine, but if you care at all about KU overall and hoops in general, you better be willing to help support football some way, because hoops alone won't do it, and shouldn't be expected to do it.

AND if you want to throw academics into the mix (I know, I know, it's a radical idea, but let's do it), look at the funding breakout discussed in the following article. http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2011/oct... See that for the Lawrence campus, Tuition and Fees is the #2 source of income (and by inference #1 for unrestricted funds), surpassing all sources but research.

Then know that KU has suffered a precipitous drop in enrollment over the last 3 years while KState and Moo are gaining students. The drop in enrollment at KU is severely limiting academic funding, especially for unrestricted funds.

What is the one clear-cut, different factor between our two rivals enrollment situation and KU's?

The status of athletics in general, and the football programs in particular.

I don't care if you don't like football. If you love KU, you at least need to be interested in the business of football.

So stop with the "KU will never be anything more than a hoops school" crap. It can and needs to be both, or both will suffer.

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Varlo52 2 years, 5 months ago

Frankly after reading the drivel above I wonder if Gill isn't far more qualified than the gloomy doubters. It's easy to say that our defense is pitiful. Of course it is, and just who do you geniuses care to suggest who might have done significantly better, given the current personnel?

We seasoned people (read old farts) have been complaining about the younger generations(s) for eons, but I truly believe that the demand for instant gratification is stronger (and stupider) today than ever before.

I don't know whether or not Turner Gill is a good coach or a bad one. I also don't know if any of you do either. Frankly, I doubt it. But I do know that given the dregs he was left with when he arrived, two years, even if we are blown out by Mizzeri, is not enough to assess his abilities. It would take a good deal less to assess yours - or Keegan's, who in my mind is a far better candidate to leave town under a cloud.

Frankly, I would like to see better fans. If we had them we might possibly have a better team.

Now all of you fat boy lovers can go back to missing MM. Talk about one-trick ponies!

Too old to take BS from cretins anymore.

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rockchalkjjjhawk 2 years, 5 months ago

The sad thing is you'd have to think that Lew and all of the business players involved in this payday deal surely weren't complete idiots and had an inkling that a mediocre coach in a smaller conference would result in sub-mediocre results in a big conference. Let's not forget that other folks/entities benefit besides Gill, monetarily speaking, in a deal like this. This whole national athletic coaching hire-then-bailout movement where there seems to be a continuous transfer of monies from donors and departments to a few individuals has run amok. Deals like this should NEVER EVER AGAIN be made. How about just the simple, but tried and true 'the more games won with the least possible negative off-field stories, the bigger the bonus' type of deal? Seems pretty cut and dried. If you have success while at the same time representing the university in a positive manner, then you get a bigger payday. If you continue that over a period of time, like a Self, then that payday gets exponentially bigger. Simple really.

The bigger problem is even if Gill stays and goes to a bowl in a year or two, the ticket revenue lost from these last two years can't be recovered. This revenue loss will, in effect, all but wipe out any momentum gained from the Orange Bowl era run.

Pretty much states it like it is: http://uponfurtherreview.kansascity.com/?q=node/1719

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Hammertoe 2 years, 5 months ago

Turner Gill makes more than Bill Synder. Gill has 3 years left at $2Million per year. At what point is a buy out not feasible.... That buy out would be a budget buster..

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txjayhawk1 2 years, 5 months ago

Was just updating my resume this morning since my last employer made the business decision to "consolidate" operations. Am now changing it to reflect that I have never lost a bowl game, never finished last in Big 12 football and have recruited many talented young people to make a winning team. Too bad I have never coached D1 football or football period or I might be a damn good candidate.

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Kyle Cornish 2 years, 5 months ago

The new hire will be Dave Doeren... Mark it down. Zenger uses his Missouri Valley ties and reaches for a guy who knows Kansas.

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90sHawk 2 years, 5 months ago

The thing is, once Gill is eventually fired (very likely at this point), sometime down the line he'll probably get another shot at head coach for a BCS school. It may be 10 yrs, but will probably happen. Will he do things differently then? Probably so or he knows he's doomed to repeat his time at KU. So why not make those changes now?! I was not excited about this hire from the get go, but I don't believe in changing coaches every couple of years. I see Gill getting 1 more year, and I'm on board with it; however, should the blowout losses begin next season he is gone before the mid-point. His style is not the style I'd prefer, which is getting in a player's face after the BS some of them show on a consistent basis. If that is not the way HE wants to be, he sure as heck better allow his staff to do it for him then, and then back them up when a player starts whining. Or just sit their a$$ on the bench if they don't like it.

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Robert Brock 2 years, 5 months ago

Better hire someone who recruits players who are not Texas leftovers. KU gets what's left after UT, A&M, TTech, TCU, OU, OSU, and Baylor get theirs. KU ends up battling Louisiana Tech and Navy for the Leftovers. Meanwhile, K-State recruits good players from KC who drive past Lawrence to attend school in Manhattan. Unnatural.

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Jo Ann Ortgies Stork 2 years, 5 months ago

We too drove 4 hours to the game and were amazed that the majority of the season ticket holders chose to sell their seats to K-State fans to allow them to have a "HOME" field advantage in Lawrence. I continue to watch people leave the game before the half to make sure that they can continue to "tailgate" as their way of supporting our TEAM. Why would you expect anything different than what you are seeing when you exit statge right instead of supporting our team. All the negative press regarding the coaches and the teams performance---nothing positive. It really makes me sad to say that I graduated from the University of Kansas.

We have a coach with 49 Freshman on the squad and only 12 or 13 seniors. Have you forgotten that Mangino who you all admire was not a recruiter.? We had no one on the squad for head coach TG to develop. We are also competing against ALL the teams in the remaining Big 12---every year. It's going to be harder to have the team you expect--however, I'm sure you'll still be exiting stage right to the "tailgate" party even if we are winning.

Our team needs you in the seats---making some noise---not sitting on your hands and complaining . Besides, who would really want to be under the microscope of the Kansas football fans who think that your former coach deserves to be memorialized as the greatest thing since "sliced bread" and your current coach nothing but the recipient of your rath?. If I were a coach, I wouldn't accept your offer as a "head coach" as you somehow think that it is more important to criticize than support.

GET IN THE SEATS--MAKE SOME NOISE--SUPPORT OUR TEAM. Don't just post negative comments.

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Ted Adams 2 years, 5 months ago

Mike Leach - come on down! Just make sure to bring a top 25 defensive coordinator with you, or things might not look too much different.

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callowax 2 years, 5 months ago

Here's a coach for you that we could get for reasonable money ... Glen Mason. Mason coached at Kansas in the mid-90's and took the team to several bowl games. He then took Minnesota to several bowl games as well. Glen is an arrogant SOB and has the ability to turn many against him, which he did at both Kansas and Minnesota. And while he left Kansas (he was hated when he left), he was fired at Minnesota. He was fired on the flight returning from their last bowl game. Minnesota's program has sunk ever since his departure. The other intersting fact about Mason, he married a Lawrence gal. He might not mind spending the rest of his time in Lawrence.

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callowax 2 years, 5 months ago

Here's a coach for you that we could get for reasonable money ... Glen Mason. Mason coached at Kansas in the mid-90's and took the team to several bowl games. He then took Minnesota to several bowl games as well. Glen is an arrogant SOB and has the ability to turn many against him, which he did at both Kansas and Minnesota. And while he left Kansas (he was hated when he left), he was fired at Minnesota. He was fired on the flight returning from their last bowl game. Minnesota's program has sunk ever since his departure. The other intersting fact about Mason, he married a Lawrence gal. He might not mind spending the rest of his time in Lawrence.

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Dyrk Dugan 2 years, 5 months ago

i guess it's inevitable now. most other times in history, this wouldn't be happening. a coach would be allowed to get his kids in, and show the progress that can be made. but not now. not in the new era of big time athletics, means big time football MUST be good....or least competitive.

all that being said, and Gill was honest yesterday in his post game presser, this was a step back.....and his coaching was at the forefront. there is no way in the world, you let a guy wide open in the middle of the football field for a 50 yard pass play with 11 seconds left in a half...just no way. i couldn't believe we were in a base defense....NOBODY was back. that's all coaching. and then Gill blamed a kid for moving over and missing his "quarter of the field"....nonsense. you should have already known that this was the defense you should have been playing...it was KSU's only shot.

then the 2nd half kickoff....we were good on the KOs before...real good....but that one was terrible. he made some nice moves, but he wasn't touched....Mr. Lockett. 25 seconds of clock time, and they scored 10 points. ball game.

i said before this game....for Gill to really deserve a shot at this thing long term, we needed to be competitive in this game......within a score in the 4th quarter. and we weren't. now, if he doesn't get fired before the season and then finishes it out. we need to beat ISU. that's the standard. we CANNOT go 0-9 in the league....i'm sorry we just can't. and giving up 50 points a game isn't satisfactory either.

ISU is it. that is the standard. win it, and he should stay. lose it, and he's gone.

boy that TTech game would be nice to have back wouldn't it? what a great win that would have been...and it may have been our best shot of the season.

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Scut Farkus 2 years, 5 months ago

Leach has three strikes against him. First, the pending lawsuits against Texas Tech second, player abuse charges (real or only perceived) tend to reduce recruiting ability and third NCAA violations. I will say he has proven himself as a winning coach but there is a reason everyone from Minnesota to Maryland has ignored him.

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lonestar 2 years, 6 months ago

Mike Leach. I will say it louder. MIKE LEACH. He is available and given a bad rap. Read his book. I like the guy and he would be head and shoulders above anything we have had in recent memory.

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Gregor Southard 2 years, 6 months ago

I read the article about why Mangino should be brought back. Why not? Fambrough was brought back.

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actorman 2 years, 6 months ago

I am astounded that ANYONE can still be saying to give Gill a chance after watching this team "perform." And I speak as someone who was one of those people until recently.

Enough already! For those who keep saying it takes time to build a program, I ask you: have you been WATCHING this team?!?!? The concept of "building a program" means that you are actually BUILDING something, as in showing signs of progress. None of us expected KU to have a good record this year, but we did expect at a bare minimum to not be getting destroyed EVERY WEEK! And we expected the coaching staff to show that it had some clue as to what it was doing. How do you call timeout on third down in the red zone, then call another one right after that on fourth down??? How do you give up a 40-yard-pass to a WIDE OPEN receiver with 14 seconds to go in the half???

The end of the first half spoke volumes, especially given the fact that the defense has looked like that time and time again. It's one thing to be lacking in talent, it's another thing to be consistently so far out of position that you're not in the same galaxy as the person you're supposed to be defending. And that comes down to one thing: coaching. Does a combined 80-7 in the third quarter of the last five games mean nothing to you guys? I've seen a lot of terrible football in my 35-some years of being a KU fan, including the dreadful years under Bob Valesente and Terry Allen, and I have never been more embarrassed to be a Jayhawk fan than I am right now. Even in the worst of the worst years, I don't think a team has ever been this consistently horrible.

So I ask the few remaining holdouts: on what possible basis can you believe that anything would be different next year? And I'll ask the few of you one more question: if the remaining games are the same (let's say if KU loses to ISU by two TD's and every other game by 30 points or more, and remains not just the worst defense in the country but the worst defense of all time), would you STILL believe that TG should come back for year 3, or would that finally be enough to convince you???

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Joe Ross 2 years, 6 months ago

People all over are coming to their senses. Thank you for affirming my belief that Kansas fans are among the most intelligent out there. I'm sorry, but the case has been made here beyond reproach that Gill needs to be fired. I regret that this must happen to Gill, because he is a good man. Unfortunately, it is necessary for the best interest of all involved.

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Joe Ross 2 years, 6 months ago

RE: HawkNVegas (anonymous) says…

Biggest Loser

I think Gill is a good man, but I agree with this label insofar as it describes his coaching ability. Thank you for not drinking the koolaid.

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Joe Ross 2 years, 6 months ago

RE: VaJay (anonymous) says…

As with many here, I've been on the "give him a couple of years bandwagon", but watching the total lack of competitiveness in the recent games and the gametime decision-making (or lack thereof) - i.e. insisting on speeding up games against powerhouse offensive teams instead of slowing the game down & reducing the number of possessions for the other team, or the wasted time outs, 3rd quarter disasters not seen in how many years?, players way out of position - the list goes on and on. So I've seen enough & believe the only solution is for him to be gone and I hope coach Gill shows he's a reasonable person & only accepts payment for two full seasons.

Gill is purported to be a man of integrity, maybe he will do as you suggest. In any case, thank you for not drinking the koolaid.

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Joe Ross 2 years, 6 months ago

RE: DallasJayhawk1 (anonymous) says…

You can't get your a$$ handed to you this many times and still say it's re-building. He doesn't hold players accountable for their mistakes...Anybody that says he needs more time is crazy---there are NO signs it's getting better...

Your sanity is unimpeachable. Thank you for not drinking the koolaid.

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Joe Ross 2 years, 6 months ago

RE: pigballin (anonymous) replies…

Very good point. I think because of his contract, Gill actually believes he is off limits and has no concern..Why should he? He is a millionaire for being unsuccessful on a football field.

I'm livid about it, too! "Upsetting" doesn't begin to describe... Thank you for not drinking the koolaid.

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Joe Ross 2 years, 6 months ago

RE: gorilla10 (anonymous) says…

People, people.......We will be making money by giving Gill the boot. NOBODY is going to buy tickets to KU football or support the team headed in this direction.......

Your insight is a beacon! Thank you for not drinking the koolaid.

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Joe Ross 2 years, 6 months ago

RE: kackley (anonymous) replies…

You got that right. I have had season tickets since Terry Allen and drive 4 1/2 hours one way to the games and if Gill is back next year, I am not.

You have seen the light. Thank you for not drinking the koolaid.

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142466 2 years, 6 months ago

Is Nolan Cromwell still in the coaching business? Has he maintained any ties to KU or the state of Kansas?

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Joe Ross 2 years, 6 months ago

Im not gonna argue with you. Ive vowed to myself...

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danmoore 2 years, 6 months ago

We already suck. What's the risk of one more season?

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Joe Ross 2 years, 6 months ago

Dan. If Zenger appointed you to coach the football team next year for a quarter million dollars, it would be good for YOU (you'd make a lot of money), good for the University (who, if boosters would buy out Gill's contract, could enter a period of a year or two with massive savings, compared to whats being paid now), and both of these without ANY HARM being done to the performance of the football team...even if it sucked.

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lama 2 years, 6 months ago

Tuberville wanted the KU job. That looks a little better right now.

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jayhawkgrad97 2 years, 6 months ago

Anybody watching how empty the OU stadium is as OU is about to be upset by TT. I guess Bob Stoops may be available for loosing this game it the OU fans had the mindset of most of the current KU fans. I am sick of reading all the cry baby comments. So how may of you would have your special teams run the kickoff coverage 1000 times a week, or your running back carry a football everywhere so they don't fumble (I think that probably only works in the movies), or have your Dback watch 20hrs of film, go to all your classes, still practice 10 or more hours on the field each week so he does not blow a coverage that he checks off on everyday during the week. KU will win 2 more games this year they just need to quick defeating themselves by trying to do to much.

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danmoore 2 years, 6 months ago

Fire him and next year we will be paying the salaries of three head coaches. Mangino, Gill and whoever we hire.

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Joe Ross 2 years, 6 months ago

I wrote this almost a year ago to the day:

pre>KUsports.com weblogs | A Crimson Quill on Campanile Hill

Posted by Joe Ross October 19, 2010 at 11:14 a.m. Petition to Fire Turner Gill?

I wonder if Turner Gill sees what the rest of us see. Do you think he secretly feels this job is too big for him? No really. Stop and think about it. Does he sense the frustration we feel or is he oblivious to the anguish of a fan base who for the last several years has bought into the idea that KU football gave them something to look forward to on Saturdays? Yes, I’m angry. I don’t know whether or not I have a right to be, but as I write this venom is flowing through my veins. Why? Because Gill is single-handedly making a mockery of a program that was pointed in the right direction and reduced it to a joke. Let’s call a spade a spade and admit the unthinkable: a coach who has absolutely NO idea of what he’s doing has been given a ten MILLION dollar contract to coach at a Division I BCS program for five years. Put your seatbelts on. It’s gonna be a bumpy ride!

You know what’s scary? It might just be possible to have never coached these kids for single practice, have some random high school coach come in on game day and scratch plays in the dirt, and produce BETTER results than Gill's in the last two weeks. 114-14, ladies and gentleman! Even if you disagree, the fact that it’s thinkable should give one pause. Yet I bet Gill goes home at night with a certain sense of satisfaction of his place here at the University of Kansas. It sickens me! So much so that at this point I’d take Mark Mangino being doubly as cantankerous as he ever was during his time here. Apparently nice guys really DO finish last! Mark, wherever you are: the pressure put on you during your last days here was a mistake and I hope you are taking some consolation in the sham KU football has become since your departure.

And yes it’s a sham! Furthermore, I don’t care who calls my fanhood into question because of the remark. I’ll not bury my head in the sand whilst Gill rolls out travesty after travesty week-in, week-out on the football field yet sits smiling in piles of the Jayhawk faithful’s hard-earned. And as a blue-blood KU fan, I’d be the first to pull the plug on every televised Jayhawk game scheduled for the rest of the season. Thank God the networks had the good sense to do it for the upcoming ISU game. Believe me, you don’t want recruits seeing this. Turner Gill doesn’t get it, people. Were it not for the legal protections that his contract affords, I’d start a petition yesterday to have him fired before the season is over. Bring back Terry Allen. Hell, let Don Fambrough coach. ANYTHING but this!

KU football’s only bowl in sight for the next five years is the toilet bowl. “Thank you, Turner Gill.”

Yes, I'm angry.

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Joe Ross 2 years, 6 months ago

"I don't expect any player, coach, administrator, fan or alum to accept today's performance or the performances in recent weeks," Zenger said. "We will get this thing fixed." Asked when that fix might come, Zenger expanded his statement and indicated that second-year coach Turner Gill at least would be allowed to finish out the season.

Doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement of the football coach by the AD to ME, but then what do I know?

Asked after the game if he was concerned about his future at KU, Gill continued to push his slogan. "I'm here to coach and teach," he said. "I still believe in my ability to coach. I still believe in my ability to develop. I believe in this staff's ability to teach and develop. I feel good about it. It's just taken a little bit longer time to get things done."

That's crap and I'm not buying it. Gill knows he's terrible. What a sham! And for all of this talk about integrity, why doesn't he show a shred of it by being honest and admitting he's not up to the job. Integrity? Whatever. He's over his head and I assure you he knows it.

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DallasJayhawk1 2 years, 6 months ago

You can't get your a$$ handed to you this many times and still say it's re-building. He doesn't hold players accountable for their mistakes---like or not Mangino would get in a player's face if they had any of these stupid penalties we've had. We don't even look competitive. How about throw the ball down the field ?? Gill is too conservative--a nice guy but he needs to be coaching a smaller school like he was at Buffalo. Anybody that says he needs more time is crazy---there are NO signs it's getting better and what recruit wants to come to a school where teams put up 50 on you every week. The message needs to be sent by bringing in someone soon or after the season.

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Joe Ross 2 years, 6 months ago

Keegs, you got it right, bro. I don't think you can actually support both Kansas football and Turner Gill simultaneously.

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AzNHawk 2 years, 6 months ago

After the end of the season when Zenger evaluates the body of work and the state of the program, I'd be willing to guess that Zenger would give Gill year number 3 if the defense gets an overhaul. Either demote Shealy back to his old position and bring back Torbush (although I would highly think this is unlikely considering he probably just wants to enjoy life after he defeats his prostate cancer) or someone who has a load of experience in defensive schemes.

Call me blind, but after 1 year of being in Long's offensive system the offense has shown slight (some may even say minimal) improvement. Today's hurry up, pitch and pass by Webb moved the chains and got us some yardage.

I'd think that spending a whole year in a set and agreed upon defensive scheme by who ever the D coordinator would be would show results.

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Joe Ross 2 years, 6 months ago

Again, a note to all sensible people. Ignore Gill supporters unless you feel like wasting your time. Let them say whatever they're going to say, but for the love of God do NOT engage in a dialogue with them, because as quickly as you do you have already taken an irrational approach and your best efforts will be wasted. I know. I've made this mistake. Focus instead on what the reality is. Gill is a terrible coach, he is causing Kansas to be the laughingstock of ALL of college football, and he needs to be fired. Draw up petitions, picket Zenger's office, or come up with a grassroots campaign to collect money to buy out his contract. I don't care if you collect a hundred dollars. Hell, Ill contribute 90. News of a movement like that will garner attention and make alumni and the AD take notice. Get this clown out of here please and bring in a coach who knows ANYTHING about coaching.

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jhawkinsf 2 years, 6 months ago

Think Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, UCLA and you think basketball. Think Texas, Alabama, Notre Dame, USC and you think football. Sometimes one will surprise you. Kansas winning the Orange Bowl, Florida winning in both championships, but generally, schools are one or the other, but not both. What we need is a K.U. lifer, someone like Fambrough. For what's it's worth, I'd seek out the advise of Gale Sayers and then do whatever he recommends.

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Joe Ross 2 years, 6 months ago

In a span of 4:38, K-State expanded its lead from 28-14 to 52-14, mostly because of an array of miscues by a Kansas team that looks less and less likely to give its beleaguered fans reason for optimism.

When Gill told reporters after the game that his goal was "to continue to improve," he was asked if the Jayhawks are improving.

"I think today maybe we took a little step back as far as improving,'' Gill said. "I think there are some things there. A lot of things that are coming to the surface is our inexperience. There's a little bit of a temporary setback. It's one football game and you get ready to go for the next one.''

First of all, Saturday was not a little setback. And there is no evidence to indicate it was temporary.

There have been too many embarrassing moments for the Jayhawks and while inexperience is a legitimate factor, it's well within bounds to question how this team is being coached.

The kinds of mistakes that happened Saturday — including a terrible facemask penalty on defensive end Malcolm Walker that allowed what would have been a three-and-out for the K-State offense to keep alive a drive that resulted in a second-quarter touchdown — can't be explained away just on inexperience.

The thousands of KU fans who left after the third-quarter meltdown aren't lamenting KU's inexperience.

They're disgusted that the Jayhawks aren't playing better and have been on the bad side of mismatches in 11 of the 12 Big 12 games they have played under Gill.

In those 11 losses — KU did beat then-conference foe Colorado 52-45 last season thanks to a wild comeback — the Jayhawks have been outscored 511-157. Or 46.5 points per game to 14.3.

No doubt, Kansas' offense is better this season. But the defense is worse. Much worse. Atrociously worse, having given up 42, 66, 45, 70, 47 and 59 in the past six games.

It's commendable, I suppose, for Gill to keep a stiff upper lip through these difficult times. If he is worried about his job security or the direction of the team he coaches, he doesn't show it.

His fan base — what's left of it — does. Things continue to crumble around him, but Gill trudges on.

Check sports columnist Bob Lutz's blog at blogs.kansas.com/lutz. Reach him at 316-268-6597 or blutz@wichitaeagle.com. Posted on Sat, Oct. 22, 2011 06:23 PM

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/22/3223176/saturdays-loss-another-step-back.html#ixzz1bZlO2fvG

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Joe Ross 2 years, 6 months ago

Bob Lutz: Saturday's loss another step back for KU, Turner Gill BY BOB LUTZ The Wichita Eagle More News

Bob Lutz: Saturday's loss another step back for KU, Turner Gill
K-State defense making many big plays

LAWRENCE — It's becoming harder to argue for Turner Gill to continue as Kansas' football coach.

But I'm going to stick to my guns that Gill, whose Jayhawks imploded Saturday against Kansas State in a way you had to see to believe, needs more time.

More time for what, I'm not sure. Because this is bad. Really bad.

Kansas wasn't going to beat the unbeaten Wildcats under any circumstances. But to lose the way KU lost — and adding this collapse to all that have come before — is heavy artillery for the anti-Gill crowd, which believes the former Nebraska quarterback is in over his head in the Big 12.

To that end, read ahead.

Kansas, which has some offensive firepower, scored a touchdown with 14 seconds left in the first half Saturday to cut K-State's lead to 28-14. OK, it was a two-touchdown deficit, but not a bad way to go into the locker room considering the Jayhawks were showing the ability to move the football.

Now the story takes a turn.

KU did not kick deep and K-State's Laton Dowling returned the ball to the K-State 43, where the Wildcats started with 11 seconds remaining.

There was no taking a knee and going to the locker room with a 14-point lead. Instead, quarterback Collin Klein dropped back to pass. He looked deep. And he found a wide-open Tyler Lockett, who blazed 48 yards to the Kansas 9 before a timeout. With one second left, Anthony Cantele kicked a 26-yard field goal to make it 31-14.

Who gives up a 48-yard pass play on the final offensive play of the first half to a wide-open receiver? KU does.

After supposedly re-grouping at halftime, though, the circus added a fourth ring.

K-State's Lockett — Gill will have nightmares about Lockett — returned the opening kick of the second half 97 yards for a touchdown. It was 38-14 and exits around Memorial Stadium were picking up traffic.

But it gets worse.

KU's Brandon Bourbon returned K-State's kickoff 36 yards to the KU 47. Behind him, though, the Keystone Cops were at work as the Jayhawks committed three penalties: an illegal block in the back, holding and, after the play ended, a personal foul on D.J. Beshears.

Instead of getting the ball at its 47, KU got the ball at its 8. Cue the carnival music because Jayhawk running back Tony Pierson immediately fumbled. It was recovered by K-State lineman Vai Lutui and two plays later Klein scored from a yard.

It was 45-14.

Kansas' next possession resulted in another fumble, this one by quarterback Jordan Webb. It was recovered by the Wildcats' Jarrell Childs and it took six plays for Klein and that man Lockett to hook up for a 19-yard touchdown, making it 52- 14.

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Joe Ross 2 years, 6 months ago

Gill supporters are stupid. Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. To those of you who are sensible, let the Gill supporters just ramble and ignore them. If you care about football at Kansas, sign a petition or picket outside of Zenger's office to fire Gill.

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cajayfan 2 years, 6 months ago

PLEASE read this Gill supporters. There is article after article about this online. http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/22/3223176/saturdays-loss-another-step-back.html

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AzNHawk 2 years, 6 months ago

"But in these posts - try to restrict your barrage of abuse to the coaching staff & not the players, many of whom have shown great character, ability, and a willingness to fight for every yard or to try to make plays, no matter how bad the score is. (over on the Keegan ratings blog, some idiot said there should only be a top five for this game - ridiculous! - I'd like to see that lame couch potato suit up & get out on the field!) - VaJay

I really agree with this.

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HireJimTressel_ku 2 years, 6 months ago

One year ago I was hearing about how exciting KU football would be vs KSU on Thursday night football. Its ended with the student section engulfed in Purple and me walking stunned to my car being heckled by KSU fans. I saved the ticket stub and felt a little better after trashing ksu in afh in January. Still I have been waiting for today for payback. I now feel more sick than ever. Why do I think KSU won't score 59 points again next year. Because the laws of probability are on my side? That is all I can hang my hat on right now.

I really wanted Turner Gil to succeed. Because I love my school. I want to win. I love football, and what he did at Nebraska. But talking to the small sample of players I have I am stunned by their attitude toward the game. They love football, love the coach, love each other, its great. But their preparation is a joke. They seem so lost out there. They are making the same mistakes over and over again. They are not getting better. I don't think anyone involved knows what the phrase "in game adjustments" means.

Turner Gil has to go. Not because they are losing. Not because he can't recruit. Because he can not lead. This is a team without any direction and it is not only drifting, it is sinking. What is the difference between GT week 3 and KSU this week. We can not do anything fundamentally well. When we drove the ball it was because KSU backed off. This team is not only young, it is record setting bad. I couldn't get the defense to allow 600 yards per game if I tried on a video game because it is preposterously absurdly bad!

The only move is to make a monster splash. The team has quit. The fans have given up. Where is the hope? The man for the job is JIM TRESSEL. Why? Because he may have one more real shot left to leave his legacy. Who is going to give him a shot? It should be KU

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VaJay 2 years, 6 months ago

As with many here, I've been on the "give him a couple of years bandwagon", but watching the total lack of competitiveness in the recent games and the gametime decision-making (or lack thereof) - i.e. insisting on speeding up games against powerhouse offensive teams instead of slowing the game down & reducing the number of possessions for the other team, or the wasted time outs, 3rd quarter disasters not seen in how many years?, players way out of position - the list goes on and on. So I've seen enough & believe the only solution is for him to be gone and I hope coach Gill shows he's a reasonable person & only accepts payment for two full seasons.

There appear to be several well-qualified unemployed coaches out there that I think could do wonders with the current squad.

But in these posts - try to restrict your barrage of abuse to the coaching staff & not the players, many of whom have shown great character, ability, and a willingness to fight for every yard or to try to make plays, no matter how bad the score is. (over on the Keegan ratings blog, some idiot said there should only be a top five for this game - ridiculous! - I'd like to see that lame couch potato suit up & get out on the field!)

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Jim Williamson 2 years, 6 months ago

Mike Leach to the white courtesy phone, please.

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Andy Tweedy 2 years, 6 months ago

It sure seems Gill's days are numbered. As we all know, coaching changes seem to flip flop from what is already in place. But I don't necessarily think we'll go from nice to tough. What I do think will happen is we go from offensive to defensive. I would be shocked if our next coach isn't a defense first guy. If Long sticks around, maybe we could get some balance.

I happen to agree that Gill maybe should be given more of a chance. But it's gotten so bad, I'm not sure that's the way to go any more. This team is just a DISASTER on defense. I've seen some pretty bad KU defenses, but this is as bad as I can remember.

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pigballin 2 years, 6 months ago

I look at Turner Gill as a moral man who wears his Christian beliefs on his shoulder, more than what a lot of us do, with good intentions for his team to succeed on and off the field.

BUT,, i also think he is lacking in football savvy. He can function within football, but not as a head coach.

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gorilla10 2 years, 6 months ago

LEACH LEACH LEACH........Similar style to Mangino which worked for KU! I bet 95% of KU fans wish Mangino was still here......Thanks Lew Perkins!

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jayhawkintx1973 2 years, 6 months ago

Zenger, here is an idea. Start making phone calls and start talking to people. Talk to Mike Leach for example, and make it public so that donors know who could possibly be hired. I'd take Mark Mangino back, if he'll come back. I wouldn't blame him if he doesn't. Discipline is needed in football.

More importantly, get the current Chancellor out of the University of Kansas and bring one in that has making KU's well being the priority and not a political world view. Second make phone calls to Leach, Mangino, Mason, etc. I think that if you get Leach as head coach Mangino would work on that staff. Mason would at least be a person to consult on the matter, to get names of some of the players and coaches while he was at Kansas.

Could Jake Sharp, McAnderson or Eric Vann make good running back coaches? Offensive Coordinator, let me see, well that would be Mark Mangino. How about contacting the former defensive coordinator under Mark Mangino, who I believe is at LSU or Florida? Why would we have not offered these guys money to stay? Hindsight is 20/20, but it was predictable.

jhwkfan162515, June Jones might be a pretty good candidate. Mangino as offensive coordinator or offensive line coach, Mike Leach the one that Mangino doesn't get. Defensive Coordinator, though is a tough one. Whoever that would be needs to have a mentor.

All I know is if we don't fix this now, its going to have deep and long-term consequences.

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cajayfan 2 years, 6 months ago

I agree with June Jones as a head coach. Get real, we can't get a high level BCS school coach at this point. I say, keep Gill's recruits, keep some assistant coaches and get rid of the failed anti-Mangino replacement. We all know why he was hired, he could relate to the black players and their mothers and he would never be caught on camera chewing anyone out as I saw Bo Pelini do today in a blowout. Gill is a good man, a good recruiter and not ready for coaching at a university that needs to see improvement. May be next year, but he will be gone soon. Offer him a buyout, his family is probably ready to take it. It has got to be awkward.

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Scut Farkus 2 years, 6 months ago

I said I would give Gill an unconditional 3 years provided there was visible evidence of improvement. Granted this years competition is extremely difficult, but I really don't see it.That said, the seasons not over. Beating Mizzou would go a long way to salvaging the season.In any event, I'm pretty sure Zenger will give Gill at least another year. Stash the money from Mizzou and pay off the last two years. Right now Gill needs to grow a pair and overhaul the defensive coaching staff.

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jhwkfan162515 2 years, 6 months ago

June Jones would be a likely candidate to replace Gill. If he can bring SMU back to life after the hell they went through, he can turn anyone around.

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pigballin 2 years, 6 months ago

Keegan,,Snyder is blowing smoke. This is not a young defensive starting unit and Webb is not all that good... Anyone can see Snyder will try to give accolades to KU.. Why wouldn't he ? He wants to put a whooping on KU every year.

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pigballin 2 years, 6 months ago

Tom,,Chuck Long is not a good offensive mind. Haven't you been focusing on what plays he calls that are out of this world,,,meaning bad play calling. Very poor imagination.

Against one team he kept calling the same running play over and over and over to one side that produced nothing. The opposing defensive coaches have this guy figured out.

People knew when he was announced as the coordinator that he was not guy for the job.

He didn't get the name, "3rd and long", other than for his football playbook.

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Jayhawk444 2 years, 6 months ago

I have been in the "give Gill a chance" camp all along...until today. I know preseason expectations were 2 or 3 wins at best. I expected improvement and we have seen some on offense. After last week, I thought maybe our defense would not be the record-setting bad defense it had been the first half of the season. But after today, I no longer want to support Gill. We returned a kickoff to the KSU 20. Momentum? No. Bring it back because of a penalty. We put together a nice drive and score with 14 sec left in the first half to pull to 28-14. Momentum? Should have been. But we gave up two fumbles and 17 points over the next 1 min, 8 sec. of game time. Freakin' embarrassing. I always stay until the end of games, but I left at the end of the 3rd quarter today. I find myself not even wanting to go to the Baylor game. I find myself not wanting to buy season tickets next year. Just sad. The coaching difference on the opposing sidelines today was obvious.

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142466 2 years, 6 months ago

The current state of KU football is yet another reason for getting the league back to at least 12 members. Our schedule will then be easier.

I've observed KU sports over the last 60 years. KU's head FB coaches seem to fit into 3 different categories:

Category #1--they do a decent job at KU and then depart for a better coaching job, like Pepper Rodgers or Glen Mason.

Category #2--their teams show steady improvement over a period of 4 or 5 years, culminating in an 8 or 9 win season. This great (by KU standards) season is then followed by 1 or 2 average or poor seasons, at which time they're fired. Like Mitchell, Fambrough or Mangino.

Category #3--completely inept, like Valacente and Gill.

Category #1 or #2 coaches are always immediately succeeded by Category #3 coaches. Too bad that the fans and donors always pressure the A.D. into firing Catagory #2 coaches before they are given a chance to return the program to an average state.

We ought to accept the fact that KU will always be BB rich and FB poor. Many schools are weak in both sports. Be thankful for what we've got. If we are lucky enough to again find a consistent 4, 5, 6 win (once in while 7 or 8 win) coach, why don't we cut him a little slack, instead of running him off for yet another Category #3 guy?

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blackhawkjayhawk 2 years, 6 months ago

Everybody join in....June Jones, June Jones, June Jones.

He'll recognize that we have some talent, that we are in a BCS conference, that the support is there.

June.....come on up.

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bjejayhawk69 2 years, 6 months ago

Gill played at Nebraska and was a position coach for how many years (never a coordinator) and was never even considered or mentioned or groomed to be their head coach. Red flag ????? But Osbourne recommended him for some other schools head coach.

I have had 3 or 4 KSU friends that have said you could switch rosters and Snyder and his staff would still have KSU is a similar spot. Obvious difference is coaching from the strength and conditioning coach up to the head coach. It is a painfully obvious nightmare we are living in now.

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bjejayhawk69 2 years, 6 months ago

Gill played at Nebraska and was a position coach for how many years (never a coordinator) and was never even considered or mentioned or groomed to be their head coach. Red flag ????? But Osbourne recommended him for some other schools head coach.

I have had 3 or 4 KSU friends that have said you could switch rosters and Snyder and his staff would still have KSU is a similar spot. Obvious difference is coaching from the strength and conditioning coach up to the head coach. It is a painfully obvious nightmare we are living in now.

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Paul Rupp 2 years, 6 months ago

Bring in Kathleen Sebelius as Chancellor---we need to start at the top with someone strong, and someone Kansas, to restore Jayhawk Nation--Budig, I guess, was a "strong" chancellor?---(who are these idiots who hire our chancellors?---let's bring their names into the conversation!). I've been a supporter of Gill until today, but the contract he is under is unbelievably stupid---Spend 2 million bucks to hire a D Corordinator (who can really be the head coach) and get someone for a short-term, big time fix, to right this ship instead of spending 6 million to fire Gill, then another 2 to hire ANYONE for just the next year. Thanks Lew. Thanks Regents.

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Kyle Sybesma 2 years, 6 months ago

There were plenty of reasons to hire Gill. He had been successful at Buffalo and is a midwest guy with ties to the state of Texas. I was excited about this hire. In his press conference he said he would "recruit" every other word and I loved it. He was speaking like a guy a player would want to play hard for. After the win vs ranked Georgia Tech and I thought we had something. I know he was left with nothing after Reising and Meier left and I defended him.

A year and a half later the recruits have been subpar. He moved our most promissing running back Opurum to defense. He shows no emotion, positive or negative. Find a player after a series and provide him coaching moment.... something. We know there are plenty of opportunities to teach something to someone. In a rebuilding year with a second coach I'm not to disapointed in losses but I am looking to be competitive. Make your opponent keep it's starters in the entire game. Make them sweat at half time. OU did. With three more years Gill is on pace to become competitive in year five when we should be competitive this year and thinking about wins and bowl games and a contract extension in five years. By 2014 Gill may give our opponents a game but will our record show it?

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JHawk74 2 years, 6 months ago

I vote for Mike Leach or Mike Stoops for the head coach position at KU!

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Bill Kackley 2 years, 6 months ago

Sorry disagree. There is a lot of talent out there just not a lot of coaching. We have just as much talent as KSU but they are so much better coached.

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WilburNether 2 years, 6 months ago

One might consider the fact that we have a pathetic collection of football players, fewer than half of whom were recruited by Gill.

Just sayin'.

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Janet Scott 2 years, 6 months ago

Fire Bernie Gray Little, another loser at the top at KU; and the person who coddled Gill from the beginning. She is worthless, and an embarrassment to KU as a "leader". Hemenway was a joke chancelor, as well. Not since Budig left has KU had any effective leadership on the Mt. Oread. But the Kansas Board of Regents are themselves a bunch of clowns and hapless comedians, so I don't expect much. KU is the laughing stock of the nation, in many respects.

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gorilla10 2 years, 6 months ago

People, PEOPLE.......We will be making money by giving Gill the boot. NOBODY is going to buy tickets to KU football or support the team headed in this direction........

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Orangedog87 2 years, 6 months ago

How much incentive and motivation do you have to work and perform when you get a guaranteed $10 million dollars for 5 years work? His salary is the frosting on the bad performance. In this economy with so many out of work and so many with not enough work, it is hard to watch something that is supposed to be entertainment on the day off for working stiffs that is a poor performance and the person in charge becomes a millionaire for it. Seriously, between the ticket scandal, the free exercise equipment and the highly paid coaches you have to wonder what kind of ovesight there is at KU. Didnt Perkins have a boss at KU or was he allowed to just hire whomever at whatever salary and the salary is guaranteed with no connection to performance.....if that was his ticket no wonder he did not think he had to pay for exercise equipment. Anyone wonder if Perkins is getting some kickback from his highly paid guaranteed salary coaches...kind of like expecting KU vendors to provide kick backs such as free exercise equipment?

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Maracas 2 years, 6 months ago

Chuck "third and" Long should be shown the door along with Turner Gill. He sucks just as badly.

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danmoore 2 years, 6 months ago

Firing Gill would be the easy solution. He would become only one in a long line of head coaches unable to meet the demands of fans who can not fill up a 50k stadium.

The hard part is finding a replacement and then keeping him should he succeed. And before you go tossing out names, keep it real. We are not going to lure Tony Dungy or Urban Meyer. The next KU coach will be a head coach from the MAC or an OC/DC from a BCS conference.

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SCJayhawker 2 years, 6 months ago

What an embarassment! Our team is not improving it is getting progressively worse week after week. As a season ticket holder it has finially got to this point: Either Coach Gill and his entire staff go - or at least most of his staff goes or I go. To hear the chants of KSU Wildcats echo through OUR empty stadium and then listen to that idiot of a coach Mitchell try to speak on the radio after the game....a duh ya know, ya know ahhh ya know.... makes me sick. This guy is our recruiting coord. I spoke with some guys on the team and he never spoke to them or their families. He believes he is too important to talk to them. He prances around like he is a god. This guy is a loser and he is part of the problem. His offense rushes for 76 yards. No way we will win with that. MITCHELL ET AL GO OR THIS SEASON TICKET HOLDER GOES. MAKE YOUR CHOICE KU.

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741hawk 2 years, 6 months ago

I predict that we'red all gonna be disappointed . . . 'cause I believe Gill's fate is in Bernadette's hand. (Why Cunningham turned down the AD job after accepting it.)

Prediction: Zenger will "fix it" by helping Gill hire a new Defensive Coordinator.

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bootlegger 2 years, 6 months ago

Great article Tom...........very well written..........

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optichawk 2 years, 6 months ago

Today was pathetic, but it has been that way since Lew left and Mangino was done, Gill is good for anyone but KU. There was one coach that had his players prepared and then the opposite. If you can't recruit to fill obvious weaknesses then can't scheme, you shouldn't be a D1 coach let alone at KU where there isn't a long tradition but facilities equal of Penn St., FSU, Tx A&M, others... its not right, just not right!!

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Milton Bland 2 years, 6 months ago

I tried to remain positive about Coach Gill. I was worried when Perkins hired him because Nebraska did not want him. But, the guy deserved a chance, so until now I have kept my thoughts to myself. But I can no longer support Gill. In today's game (was it a game?), Gill, or someone on his staff, should have noticed we were screwed by the timekeeper at the close of the first half. 14 seconds were left when we scored. After the kick-off return, 14 seconds still remained. Then after KSU's play, one second remained. If the clock had started when KSU touched the ball on the kick-off, more than a second would have been taken off the clock and therefore time would have run out before the field goal attempt. No, that would not have changed the outcome of the game, but it is just one of the many factors Gill fails at. Great individual, lousy coach.

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Marc Frey 2 years, 6 months ago

Let see: Gill is 15 games into his KU coaching career and we are all wanting him gone? Go back 2 months where every football writer predicted KU would go 2-10 or at best 3-9. So what is the suprise? Not our record, but how we got here. Our offense is much better than I would have guessed? After last year did anyone think we would have a decent QB? Look, I do not like this at all. But I do feel that Gill needs another year to really establish what he wants. Changing after this year.....another 3 years lost. We are young, Gill has been recruiting so good guys, give him another 15 games. After that we go back to a tough coach, as we have done before.

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Steve Williams 2 years, 6 months ago

fire gill, and get who? any coach on earth would have had a rebuilding project after losing what we lost 2 years ago, oh and i guess its Turner Gill's fault that Torbush got freaking CANCER,, cmon,, for a basketball school, a lot of people are hedging too many bets on 2 years of success. KU football will always be a stepping stone, the only destination job is just north of oliver hall

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billybob1 2 years, 6 months ago

While you are at it, why don't you fire the Chancellor and Sheahon? The Chancellor is an idiot and Sheahon's first priority is KSU.

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jhawk4life1976 2 years, 6 months ago

Is there a website to where we can contribute?

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hihawk 2 years, 6 months ago

Keegan, this is the best article you have written on KU football. I take my hat off to you for standing up to what needs to be done. I have said before gill was hired that KU will not hire gill as he is not a coach, never was and never will be. KU likes to throw money away like they have been doing so they don't need my contributions anymore, closed check book for KU. I think a good place to send any money would be to KST. which they seem to have a great sports program. Funny that Kansas ST. is the team noted for sports in Kansas.

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MesoCat 2 years, 6 months ago

Maybe Bill Self should help out by digging into his pockets to see Gill off? BTW, Lew Perkins did more to torpedo KU's football program than Jon Wefald did by overruling Tim Weiser and hiring Ron Prince.

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Kevin Randell 2 years, 6 months ago

I am all for giving a coach a chance, BUT there is no excuse. In your second year you may not improve to much on wins, but you usually show some improvement and are competitive in games. This is not happening. So, it is time to cut bait and move on. All of the excuses are used up. Yes, it is going to cost us, but is the cost of losing more season ticket sales and Williams Fund Donors worth it?

Bottom line, I am still going to drive 3 and a half hours every game day, buy my season tickets, and pay my Williams Fund dues. But I don't think it's wrong to get my money's worth is it?

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kennethterry92 2 years, 6 months ago

There is a first time for everything. Im agreeing with Keegen on this opinion article. This coach is in way over his head and change needs to be made.

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ahpersecoachingexperience 2 years, 6 months ago

The only person I hate more than gill is that tall white guy in the "fresh beat band"

Gawd that kid is annoying!

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Jack Wilson 2 years, 6 months ago

Instead, raise more money to give to coach Self.

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rockchalkchampionship 2 years, 6 months ago

Bingo!

I hated the Gill hire when it happened and nothing has changed in my mind. Getting him out of here ASAP after Missouri beats us in a month to finish our 2-10 season is priority number one for Zenger. It will bring much more optimism next year than keeping him around for year 3.

When I told someone who does not care about football that our defense ranked 120th out of 120 teams, they said "If there were 300 teams, they would be 300th."

Touche.

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kesmithstl1 2 years, 6 months ago

I'm thinking of selling my house, car, mini-van, Ab-Lounger, etc..., in an effort to raise money for the buyout!!!! Sure, I'll be homeless, and I'll have to quit my job, but at least I won't be embarrassed on Saturday!!

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bootlegger 2 years, 6 months ago

Goodbye Gill!!! Thanks for nothing................

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